TRANSCRIPT: 3 Ways to Make Your Math Instruction More Equitable (feat. Janine Scott from Davis Aerospace Technical High School)

3:42PM Jun 2, 2022

Speakers:

Nikki

Janine

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stereotype threat

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precalculus class

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Math skills are not necessarily just numeracy, that's just part of it. The other part is being able to look at a problem, put things together and solve problems. That's math skills. So I believe that our students are black and brown kids, especially in the city of Detroit and the inner city. They're great mathematicians, they gotta navigate that system that they live in, they got to navigate those neighborhoods, they got to get to school, and learn stuff from teachers like me. And in order to do that, you've got to be smart. You've got to have a math brain, you've got to know when to cold switch, you've got to know when to sit up, and pay attention. And you've got to know when you don't have to check. You know, there are so many things that go on in your brain, that if you can do all these things, at one time, you are straight, a mathematician. That's why musicians are mathematicians. That's why athletes are mathematicians. When you have all these things that go on in your brain, and you can do them all at one time. That's conditioning of the mind. That's a math skill.

I'm Nicky Herta and this is bright stories of hope and innovation, Michigan classrooms. podcast where we celebrate our state's educators and explore the future of learning. Right is brought to you in part by Meemic insurance company, insuring the educational community for more than 70 years, teachers and school employees visit meemic.com/quote to see how much you can save. Today's episode of bright a chat with Denise Scott, a master teacher of mathematics for Davis aerospace Technical High School was honored as a 2020 to 21 regional Teacher of the Year, representing the city of Detroit. Jeanine speaks to why belief and efficacy are fundamental to the teaching of mathematics, explains why stereotype threat can be so incredibly damaging in the subject area. And here's three ways to make your math instruction more equitable. To kick us off, I was wondering if you could tell us about the most interesting project that you're doing at your school right now or in your classroom?

Wow. So I can think of three things because the most very seldom have the most anything, we just finished our robotics season. And so robotics is just a ton of fun. And outside of being able to use your math skills in a practical way, I get to see the wonderful, wonderful diversity of robotics competitions. And as a matter of fact, I will be presenting to the State Board of Ed. And the topic is if our classrooms were just more like robotics competitions, diversity would be taken care of. So we just finished that. We're also going to be starting a radio club where we have a radio club, and it is a ham radio club. And our school has been selected as the only Detroit Public School to talk to the astronauts. So we will be using our ham radios to talk to a satellite and astronaut in the space station sometime coming up between now and maybe October, just depends on what they're orbiting and where we can get it together. So Me too. I'm super excited about that. Yes,

Have you done this before, or is like, you know, talking to an astronaut?

I've never spoken to an astronaut. What we're doing is we've got some folks who do ham radio, they're going to come to our school, and they're going to train our students and how to use the ham radio so that our students can get their own ham radio licenses. And so the school I work at is already a unique school. It's Davis aerospace. Our students learn to fly airplanes, and they fly drones. And so our students get their private pilot's license, they can get their unmanned license, and now some of our students will be able to get their ham radio license, and we will be talking to astronauts. So that's another pretty cool thing. We're working with the Tuskegee Airmen on it. And I am super excited about that.

So Wow. Yeah, that is that is such a neat school and such neat project specifically. So yeah, thank you for telling me more about that. How cool that they get to leave school with those kinds of like, licenses and certifications. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Was there a third thing?

Oh, third thing is that my pre calc class is the funnest bestest class in the world. And I started it just promising my kids that if they tried hard, they would get an A or a B. And if they learned something, they you know, they would pass with a good grade. And if they didn't, they wouldn't pass at all. And what? It's amazing, not surprising, but it's amazing to me when I take the pressure off from the ABCDE F grades. Every last one of them has gotten above an 80% with the exception of a few that I have absence issues, or attendance issues, but they're killing it in precalc. And the learning that's taken place on my precalculus class is, uh, mazing.

Is this the first time that you've done like the pressure reduction on the grades? Or is that something that you've been doing for a while? Okay,

nope, just first time trying it. So okay,

so you're saying like, the results have been pretty phenomenal, because not only has it reduced the pressure, but you've also seen increased academic achievement as a result, yeah,

they're taking chances that they wouldn't have taken before, because they were too worried to take the chance when they know that, you know, my A, B, or C doesn't hinge on getting it right, they're more likely to jump in, you know, with hands up and just ready to go versus trying to ease their way in. And it's amazing the type of conversations and the type of challenges I get from my students, they like, I have one student, his whole goal in life is to prove me wrong. So he is non stop looking for opportunities in entry ways, into a different way to explain things so that he can say Muscat. This is this is really what it is. And in this class, my students don't even ask me if this is the right answer. They, they don't. And it's amazing to me, they're like, this is what I got. And this is why that's amazing

to me. And I imagine, even just from interviewing a few math teachers on this, that sounds from what I understand, that's pretty rare. Because there's such that. And I think this is just common, if you depending on the way you were introduced to mathematics, at least, I can say from my personal experience, you know, it's very easy to get fixed on right, wrong answer. And so that's why that paradigm shift is so incredible in your classroom, because you're probably used to seeing some of that fixedness. And this has unlocked a whole new kind of like, you're not even getting those questions as much anymore.

No, I don't that they don't even say Muscat is this, right? They're like, look at my answer. What do you think? This is what I got? They don't ask me. Can you come check it? I don't hear that anymore. And to me, that is the definition of a mathematician working through your answers, right or wrong, backing him up with what you did? Well, this is what I tried. But or I don't have a clue how to go about this. What did you do so so so the discussions that I have in my precalculus class are amazing. And the students are all different levels of mathematics, from the one who was always trying to prove me wrong. He's ultra super brilliant, mathematically, to a few kids who are like, I still don't multiply well. But they still jump in two feet and go for it. So it's very cool.

That's really awesome to hear. Thank you for sharing. I don't usually get goosebumps quite this early in our in the interview. So that's pretty awesome. I was wondering if you could tell me about a time that you vividly remember just falling in love with education and just realizing like, this is what I want to do.

So unfortunately, I am never going to have one answer. Because there are multiple times that I've fallen in love with education. And so from my earliest memories, I always wanted to be either a teacher or a nurse. And in the fifth grade, I broke my arm and realize that I don't like the sight of blood, no more nursing teacher. But I've always been the teacher's pet. I've always helped other students. I've always wanted to go to other classes. So even in the third grade, my teacher would let me leave third grade classical help the kindergarten kindergarteners in the fifth grade, I helped the kindergarteners and the sixth grade, I tutored my friends. And you know, I was always a teacher's aide. So I always wanted to be a teacher, I kind of forgot about that by the time I hit 11th or 12th grade. And so some 30 years. Yeah, I was so good at math and science. And my brother was an engineer that I went to the University of Michigan for engineering, but I never, ever, never lost the passion for teaching. And then one time, so this is really when I took the plunge, I got sick, like I was in the hospital in intensive care running through my bucket list of things I wanted to accomplish because I thought I might not make it out. And I said a little prayer to God, if I make it out alive. Please help me just go ahead and become a teacher. Because I had already gotten my master's degree in education. I worked for IBM, and as an engineer and my master's was an education just because I liked it so much. And I just had golden handcuffs. They were paying me too much in corporate America for me to teach. But I said that prayer to God and said if I get out, helped me become a teacher and I made it out alive and within a year If I became a teacher, and I have never looked back, I am the poorest I have been, I make less money now than I made in my 20s. And there are a bunch of things financially, that happened with the housing market crash and all this stuff. And I've threatened on numerous occasions to go back to corporate America, but I can't. Because teaching is not just my job. It's my calling. It's my vocation.

Thank you for sharing that. I am glad that you're here. And I'm glad I'm sure that your students are deeply grateful that you are here to

Yeah, well, you know, I'm a teacher. A math teacher.

Well, whether they realize it now or they realize it down the line, I'm sure that the impact is very clear. Yeah, well, thank you for that. That is an incredible story. So today, we are going to be talking about three ways to make your math instruction more equitable. But first, I always like to pause to unpack like the why a little bit, you know, why, you know, what is the context about why this matters? And where are we kind of situating this discussion? So it's this first one is a big question, obviously. But just to paint some broad sweeps. Can you describe for us the problems we're experiencing as a state and a nation in terms of equity in math instruction?

Okay, so this is that's a huge, huge ask. But I would say it all boils down to a misunderstanding of what mathematics actually is a misunderstanding of who was good at math. And the stereotype threat that covers our students of color, our students in underserved communities are girls that make that only the students themselves think they're not good at math. But even we, as adults, don't think that certain populations are as good as math. And if you are good, you're an anomaly and an exception to the rule of only certain populations, Excel. And so until we as a society, and then let me just narrow it down until we as teachers and parents understand that anybody can do mathematics, because math is really thinking, we're going to be in trouble. You know, we're going to be in trouble. The very least of math is understanding that one plus one is two. The very most of math is saying, I can get these two things, I can get these, put them together and come up with something. Let me look at them. Let me examine them. Let me see what they are. Let me see what I can do with these things. Is it two? Or is it 11? Or is it you know, a T? What is one and one? That's all math tools, one out of 100 answers, that might be right for the situation. And until we understand that all of that is mathematics. We're gonna have a problem. Because we just take one little itty bitty thing and say, That's math, and you can't do math, because you can't add, subtract, multiply or divide, as well as Johnny over there, we're going to be in trouble.

I heard you described in a video for the proud Michigan educator campaign about you were celebrated for your insistence for not letting mathematics become a gatekeeper. Your students educational careers, that's what I think one of your school administrators had said about you, particularly for your black and brown students. And I was wondering if maybe this would be a good transition into that, you know, talking about your beliefs there, your approach there and how you bring this into your math classroom.

Okay, for sure. So, I had mentioned stereotype threat, and a lot of people don't understand stereotype threat and the huge impact that has on learners. So stereotype threat literally refers to the risk of confirming stereotypes about individuals based on their race, their culture, their identity, their ethnicities, and their just their self identification. And when you confirm those stereotypes, whether they be good or bad, there's meaning in it. And so I try my very best to erase the negative stereotypes of my black and brown kids, which are you live in the city of Detroit? You're not good at math. Their parents are like Ole Miss Scott. They got it on us because I was never good in math either. And I'm like, whatever. Math is one of those things that really are thinking skills and the things that we actually learn in math, unless you're a math teacher, you're never going to do algebra in real life, you're just never going to do algebra. In real life. Now, you use algebra and things that algebra create every single day. And so it's almost like fire. Very few of us can create fire from scratch, very few. Unless you maybe are an Eagle Scout. I don't know. But I use things that heat generate every day. Matter of fact, I get warmed by heat, I eat food, I have items in my house that were forged with heat, I use the heat. And so to understand that heat is more than just hot, that it changes things chemically, that molds in mens and builds and tears down. Thanks for me to understand that. That's where it comes from. Yeah, maybe if I have to, I can generate a fire. But what's more important is that I understand the power of the fire. So as we're doing mathematics, as we're doing algebra, and we're solving equations, and learning how to read a sine graph, or cosine graph and shift graphs, never gonna really do that. Sometimes I'll see a sine graph, if I'm a doctor, maybe I'll have to see sine graphs and understand them. But if I'm a journalist, probably not. Unless, of course, I'm studying something or covering something that has to do with sine graphs. But either way it goes, I have to understand that the thinking skills that I have used and developed for with by using those, that sort of maths that we do, they're crucial to my development as a human being. And so when I talk to parents, I'm like, I don't expect you to remember this, if you paid attention in high school, to your algebra. Now, 1520 30 years later, I don't expect you to remember it. But I expect you to know your child well enough to know if they're snowing you. If they don't know how to do it, you should get them some help. And I tell my students all the time, when they Muscat when are we ever going to use this?

You use it every day. But when are you ever going to do an equation in real life? I don't know. Because the only person I know who does our math teachers, even as an engineer, I didn't do it. But the other thing is, we use our math skills as muscle memory. So it's just the same as a football player lifting weights, you know, they lift these weights. And I never, ever, ever see a football player go out on a football field during a football game and lift a weight. Yeah, yeah. What are they doing? And why are they doing it, conditioning gets the muscles ready. Math is conditioning for our minds, it gets our minds ready. For the real world, there is not a decision that I can make without using math skills. Math skills are not necessarily just numeracy, that's just part of it. The other part is being able to look at a problem, put things together and solve problems. That's math skills. So I believe that our students are black and brown kids, especially in the city of Detroit and the inner city. They're great mathematicians, they gotta navigate that system that they live in, they got to navigate those neighborhoods, they got to get to school, and learn stuff from teachers like me. And in order to do that, you've got to be smart. You've got to have a math brain, you've got to know when to code switch, you've got to know when to sit up and pay attention. And you've got to know when you don't have to check. You know, there are so many things that go on in your brain, that if you can do all these things at one time, you're a straight A mathematician, that's why musicians are mathematicians. That's why athletes are mathematicians, when you have all these things that go on in your brain. And you can do them all at one time. That's conditioning of the mind. That's a math skill.

I love the metaphors you're using to describe this, I can see that you're a good teacher, because I'm like, oh, you know, like you're making me see things in ways I've never really thought about it. So that's pretty awesome to see. First of all, I wonder, Are these some of the kind of like metaphors and the language you use when actually like talking to your students and parents?

Absolutely. I absolutely use that. And that's why I always tell my kids that you guys are some great mathematicians. You know, you are some of the smartest kids. I know. I know kids from all over the place. They've got nothing on you. And I like to try to combat a lot of the stereotype threat that goes on with my students, by just telling them you got me I'm like the best teacher, I know, I am the very best math teacher I know. And so just like a basketball team, it has the one of the best coaches, you just get better, you get better, because you've got the very best. And I tell this to teachers all the time, you better think you're the absolute best there is because you are presenting to minds that need to believe in you. So what my kids learn for me, I'm the math queen. That's just my name is Janine. I am the math queen. And you know, I tell my kids, you can call me Muscat, or you can call me math, queen, everything else, you better keep in your head.

But, you know, I get them to believe that they are learning from the absolute best there is because I believe that I'm the absolute best there is. And what I know for a fact is that I am doing the very best I can. And so what that does is that kind of alleviate some of the stereotype threat of Wait a minute. I'm just because I'm not good at math, but I'm learning from the very best. So I'm gonna get better. And I watched them get better. And I watched them lose that fear. And it is amazing how my students when they finally lose that fear, I'm just like, oh my god, you shoe. Sometimes, though they don't because they run into me. And upper High School 11th and 12th grade. One of my students even said so Muscat. You just keep talking about math is just thinking skills. You just need us to get better. You just need us to get better. You don't care about how good we are. You just want us to be better when we leave. That's my whole goal. I want them to know. Yes. Yes. That is it. I don't need you to be me. I need you to be you. And I need you to get better. You progress. And I'm good. Well, so you made to tell us that all the rest of the time our math teachers were wrong. And I just so well, all I can say is that your math teachers are not me.

Right? And I was like, here's how you're gonna answer it. Yeah,

they're not me. They're not me. There are right and wrong answers. But I could care less about right and wrong answers. I want to know your thinking process. Did you think about it, I've got a student in my class. She gets stuff wrong all the time. But she come back or stuff up. And she fights for her answers. And she's like, No, the reason I think that this is the right answer is because it did this, this and this. And then the students will be they'll be going back and forth about why this is not the right answer, or why this is the right answer. She gets up on that board, and presents her answer and her methodology of thinking. And I'll be like, Oh, I gotta say that some great thinking. So the answer that's published that they say is right, is this but I gotta give you points, because you backed everything that you said. And so she will come to me. And she wouldn't do this. But she will she will be that student and be like, no, no, Miss got two times three is five is two times three is five. Because when I lined them up to three times, I got five, watch 12345, she would back her stuff up. And I'd have to be like, she always gives me pause. And the fact that she can give me pause means her brain is working. And now we still go through except the answers. So this is what I got. Josh, this is what you got. Trent, this is what you got? How come our answers are different. Now what do we learn from different answers? And how come my approach is different than yours? And why was your approach this way? And they'll sit back and go. Ooh, so that's, that's not mathematically legal. Okay, okay. Okay. It's very, very important to me that my students speak mathematics in my math class. And I tell them, that I do not speak proper English necessarily, in my math class, but don't tell your ELA teacher. I speak proper math. And you have to speak mathematics. I don't allow thinking, I don't allow what you call it. You know that that that? Nope. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember how to state it, then we can talk about that. And I can tell you how you should say it. But I need you to speak mathematics in this class. Because I need you to understand and I need to understand what you're talking about when it refers to math.

I was wondering so you know, we talked about a lot already, you know, in terms of your approach to teaching math, and working to help students get past the stereotype threats and not get held back by this, you know, artificial gate. And I was wondering if you could just tell me a story before we launch into your three tips. You know about a student or students who are Um, you know, we're impacted by this approach just to hear an example. So we can like really see the true impact that this kind of way of instructing can have on students.

So, there are a lot of students who are impacted differently by this method of approach, but the students that, and I won't name names, but the students that are most affected are the students who have really bad basic skills. So they cannot do fractions, well, they cannot do multiplication or division, some of them can't even add. But their thinking skills are so frickin brilliant. I'm just like, blown out the water. And so they get a teacher like me, and I'm like, You're a freaking math genius. I just need you to get that multiplication, check what you're gonna do. And I watch, and slowly but surely I start watching these basic skills come into play, that they didn't have. But once they start believing that, wait a minute, I can do the math. I just could be better if I could do the multiplication, they start doing that. So I have a specific student this year, who just has low to no confidence and has math abilities, like none. And he was in our school, and then transferred out and he's come back. And when he came back, he insisted that he be put on my math class because he's my child. And he's sitting in class, and he's always so pensive and. And I said, Sweetie, I know you got this, I need you to speak up. And when he speaks, everybody stops. And they all listened to him. And they all respect him. And I said, Have you ever notice that when you finally speak up, everybody listens. And he's like, in this class, they do. I said, that's because I keep telling you, you're freaking math genius, sweetie, you just need to stop being scared. Stop being scared. So how about this young man sneaks itself in, early in the mornings or after school, and he comes and gets help, and these basic skills that he doesn't have. And he was like, you know, I'm still not gonna go to college. But I want to go to a trade school. And I want to do HVAC. And I know, I got to get these numbers, tight Muscat. And so I just want you to help me with that. So it's the realization that I've got the skills I can think. And in order to think and be better, I need to get these basics in, in under control. And that they go and they start working on those basics just because and I've seen that more than once or twice, young lady, I'm tutoring right now. Super brilliant. And we're going through factoring quadratics. And I'm like, come on square root of 64. Come on, come on. And she was like, Okay, I need to get my multiplication tables done. I said, Yes, you do. I need you to practice them. Because you know how to do all this factoring, You're stalling. You're this is fourth grade, You're stalling at the fourth grade level, I need you to get them done. Okay, I'm gonna practice. And I tell my students all the time that math is a stair step. If you miss a step, it can wreck you. But it doesn't stop you. It doesn't make you less intelligent. It just holds you back, we have tools that can help you. They have tools, right? That can help you get past those, those little things. But when you find you start needing it, then you start using it. And then you get it. And it's so much easier to learn your times tables, when you're 16, than it is when you're eight. Because now you know why you need it. And so I've watched that happen multiple times with my kids who have really bad basic skills, but really good thinking skills. And the second they start believing that you know what, I do have good thinking skills. Let me get this multiplication together. Let me get this division together. Let me get these fractions together, then they get them together algebra, it's just it's amazing how many times that has happened to me and my students.

One thing I see kind of like underpinning this, and I think you essentially already said this, but it's just the dots are connecting for me is the importance of like belief and efficacy in all of this, you know, and that's it sounds like part of why the stereotype threat is so incredibly threatening and dangerous, because it's undermining that fundamental belief. And so you know, in yourself and your thinking skills and so what you're saying is like, I just love the way you describe talking to your students, you know, you're saying no, no, no, you may not know this fraction. You know this, how to do this. But you are a mathematical genius. And when you start when you can convince them like that You know, that that is true that their thinking skills are on point, then the rest can build up and and the way you described, you know, building their belief in you to, you know, like, they can believe in themselves, and they can believe in you, then you can make some learning happen, you know, you can, that's where you can make the magic happen. So that's, I see that thread and the artful way that you've navigated that, to rebuild that belief and that confidence in students who had it broken down.

And I see it a lot. I really do see it, like, people walk into my class, and they will see a mess. My class is not a neat, prim, proper class, are my kids are sitting on the floor. I have a beanbag chair. Now some of them are laying on the beanbag. Some of them are at their desk, other ones are up at the board. Some of them are arguing, and people walk in and they're like, what kind of math class is this? And my answer is, is the type of math class where kids actually learn. I have had many different administrators until they understood me question my modus operandi when it comes to math. Were loud. We dance, I used to teach middle school and we would have multiplication relays, and Energy Relays. And I would put all the kids in the back of the room, give them markers, put a problem on the board, they'd race up to the board, and they could have one coach, and they'd race and they do the problem, the coach will be helping them with that they'd run back, and it was just too loud. And my kids, were like, we don't even do math. We just sit in play all day. No, you don't you do math. You do real math in this class. And I just had a student who, I'm Facebook friends with him, and he's probably 30 Now, guess what Miss got? I still sit on the floor and do my homework. I now run on the floor sitting on the floor doing our homework to because he's back in school. And I'm just like, they used to they used to really yell at me. Why are you letting them sit on the floor? Well, sorry, did the parents get mad because our pants are dirty? No kids blog and desks? No, they don't. They belong wherever they learn the best. And if a room is really quiet, there's one reason because they're taking a test. The final assessment where I just don't want them like copying off each other. But other than that, the room should never be quiet. And my test scores, which and I hate standardized tests, but my test scores back it up.

I'm Nikki Herta and you're listening to bright stories of hope and innovation, Michigan classrooms. Bright is brought to you in part by Meemic insurance company, insuring the educational community for more than 70 years. teachers and school employees visit meemic.com/quote See how much you can save. today I'm chatting with Janine Scott, master teacher of mathematics, Davis aerospace Technical High School was honored as a 2020 to 21, regional Teacher of the Year representing the city of Detroit. Up next we dive into Janine ZZ Top three tips for making your math instruction more equitable. All right, so we are going to dig in to your top three tips for making your math instruction more equitable. So are you ready to kick us off with number one?

Yes. So you actually touched on it a little bit earlier. My number one is that you as an instructor have to believe that your students can understand whatever grade level math you're teaching, you have to believe it first. And then you can help them believe it. Too many teachers don't really believe that their students are capable of understanding certain levels of math, they can't do it. Yes, they can. And you have to believe that your students can do it. You have to see the mathematics in the things that they do that may not have to do with numeracy, you have to be able to understand that they are capable human beings, you have to believe in yourself. And you have to believe that you are that supreme motivator to get them to that level. And then I mean, just in teachers in general, we are non stop beating our kids over the head with efficacy and belief in them and all that, but it cannot be fake. You have to believe it. And even when you're having a bad day, because some days I'm just like who are these creatures? Yeah. Who are they? I have to back up and remind myself that these are my human beings, my students whom I love and who I believe in And so if you believe that your students can understand grade level math, then they will believe that they can understand grade level math as a high school teacher, what that teaches Algebra Two and pre Cal. Most of my kids aren't ready, yet. But that's it. They're not ready yet, for Algebra Two and precalculus, but they're super duper ready to do math, and they have mathematical thinking skills. And they can understand what different sine graphs or cosine graphs and shifts mean. And you know that quadratics look like this. And that it's x squared. And that these are the things that we do when we're talking about quadratics, they can understand those I had an ELA teacher, friend of mine explained to me, when my kids can't read, I still have them read books at grade level, because they can understand them. They resonate with the subjects and their situations, they don't resonate with CJ Ron, they don't resonate with baby books. I do other strategies, like read alongs. And I play textbooks on tape to help my kids get through. But they get that subject matter. Just because they don't have that basic reading skill doesn't mean they can't understand that basic subject matter. And I was like, Yes, that's what it is what math, just because they don't have that basic skill does not mean that they do not understand grade level mathematics. And that you need to be able to take certain steps to get to things now, they might not have the skills that are needed for those steps. But they can understand that you need them. And there are some things that they can do. And so if you don't believe that, you will never get them to believe it. Period, because kids can see through all the bullcrap they see through all of it. So you have to believe it. And you have to understand and help them believe that they too can do it, then they start doing it. So that's my first thing. Belief.

Yep. Yeah, that makes sense. And it entirely and clearly builds off what you were saying, you know, in the first half of our interview, so you have you have me, bought in hook, line and sinker with that one. So that's great. Thank you. For the sake of time, I'll have you move on to number two. And then if we have time for you know me to ask follow up questions, I will once we get through your three.

Okay, number two, you have to have multiple points of entry that goes along with believing that they can understand the levels. Every student has something to contribute to every problem. Some of them can actually work through the mechanics of the math, some of them might only be able to read the math problem or scribe. Some of them can say, Well, why wait, I remember, I remember that. But you have to have multiple points of entry so that everybody can participate at all times. And once in a while you fail. It doesn't work once in a while. It's like oh, so and so's over there feeling real left out right now. You got to stand back and say, hey, hey, let me show you what you're missing. Let me help you with how your how how you can get a better understanding. And let me reset. You have students when my students, he was just like, I just feel like a failure. I don't understand anything Muscat, I never get it. And I'm like, Oh, my God, you're one of my very best students. You're one of the ones who's always up out of your seat looking at that board. Because I don't get it. And I was like, Thank you give it. I'm teaching you how to learn. I'm not teaching you how to be right. I'm teaching you how to learn. And you are one of the main ones who are up there asking questions, and doing it. We are progressing. We're getting there. You're a musician. He's a musician. You never play a piece right the first time. But in your head, you're like, I know I can get there and you keep practicing. That's what we're doing. We're practicing. And so every time I hit a new topic, that's a brand new piece. And he was like, Oh, shoot. So it just clicked for him. Yeah, I said, Sweetie, I didn't give you a B. You earned that B. And he was just like, Ah, got you. And so now Muscat. Do you mind if I stay after school? Because I didn't get that concept. And I really want to get it. I'm here. So if you don't have multiple points of entry, if you don't have spaces where everybody can feel like they can fit in and do the math. You're not going to be an equitable math teacher.

Would you be able to give me like a couple of examples of like, you know, when you're talking about these multiple points of entry what that could look like?

Absolutely. So I keep going back back to pre Cal pre Cal is the study of graphs and how they move and what they look like and how you shift them, and how you use them. And so I might have someone who does not do a very good job in solving equations. But they know what that graph looks like. They know what the parabola looks like. They know that a negative sign in front of the parabola goes down. They know that h and k means it shifts. And so they can do all of the movements. They might not be able to solve for x, but they can see that graph. And they can use that tool I use Desmos or graphing calculator. The solutions are right there on the x axis. Oh, there, they see that solution. So when I throw that up, and I show the equation and I show the graph, and I get the problem, and I say, can you find a solution? Everybody can find the solution, whether they graph it, whether they solve it via equation, and even if they can't graph it, they can go on Desmos and type in the equation, or they can say it's x squared. I know it's a parabola. Wait, it's not touching the X axis? Does that mean there are no solutions? No, that means there are no real solutions. Oh, that means there are no real solutions. That means there are imaginary solutions. Yes. So they all can see at when I show them this parabola and this function and this equation, they can all see the points of entry. And so that's, that's one of the examples that I can give for that.

That's helpful that brought me right back, like to pre Calc, you know, like, Oh, yes. Ah, oh, the cake. Yeah. So, the

little, yeah, we do dances and we like, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It's really, it's so it's so much fun watching that. It's, it's fun watching them.

Pretty cool. Awesome. Thank you. Do you want to lead us into tip number three?

Tip number three is that you, as an instructor have to have a deep understanding of mathematics. So what I found out, especially since I came from corporate America, and I have an engineering degree, is that I understand not only how to do the math, I'm not only good at math, I understand what you use it for, and why it's used. And so a lot of times when kids ask that question that every math teacher gets every day of the year for the rest of their life, when are we ever going to use this? We don't give them some fake answer that doesn't exist. You just you got to understand where stuff comes from. And you have to understand where it comes from, and what it leads into. And the more you understand the connections with the mathematics, the better teacher you become, and the better students you get, because you are a better teacher, there are multiple 1000 ways to the right answer. Sometimes I need you to understand that there are these different methods that we use. So I want you to understand these ways. But once you understand that there are different methods than do choose your Do you whichever way works for you is the way I need you to do it. Also, teacher don't be afraid to get something wrong. I'm wrong all the frickin time. Oh my gosh. And that wrong in a sense of, I don't know, mathematics, or wrong sometimes answers to stumped me. And I'm like, yeah, oh, my God. I'm stumped. I worked on this yesterday, because I'm that type of teacher I don't I do the problems before I presented to the kids, just so that I know what questions they might have. What questions I have, what misinformation, and sometimes the book is just flat out wrong. And so I do the problems. But sometimes I'll still run into a roadblock. And I'm like, Guys, I had been a math teacher longer than you've been born and I still get X and Y mixed up. Sometimes you will see me transpose numbers. Sometimes when I'm graphing, I'll go and if I graph 353, comma, five, I'll go up three, and go over five when I know it's over three, up five, I still make mistakes. That doesn't make me dumb. That makes me making a mistake, and I correct it. And so, I understand. I let them see me not understand sometimes they get extra credit when they catch me in a mistake, which is why my boy Josh nonstops trying to find mistakes and boy, and I'm just like, you know, I hate you know, I do I love you. I absolutely love you, but I hate you. I gotta give you some more points. Because once again, you found the error and I practice this just so you wouldn't Catch me. Yep. So he loves, I love it for, but you got to understand the math.

It sounds like that motivates him, you know, to want to learn and to stay on top of it.

And I know you're human right, you're human. Yeah, exactly.

And I can see to your modeling that, you know, I guess growth mindset, really, you know, for students, you're saying, Hey, I'm really good at math, and I still mess up. So it's okay. If you mess up x and y, which is which, you know, like, it happens, it doesn't. That is not what defines your mathematical abilities and your mathematical skills and knowledge. So, it sounds like you're modeling for them exactly the behavior and the mindset that you're hoping to achieve. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

Let them see, let them see you be human, you know, it's okay. It's okay that you're not a teacher, but it is okay that you are a human being.

Awesome. Well, as we wrap up here, I was wondering, we end every interview talking about a teacher who had a positive impact in

your life. In kindergarten, Miss Olin was supposed to take me to the other teacher's classroom, and she held my hand and said, You're so cute. I'm going to keep you for myself. I felt loved and valued as a four year old in kindergarten, and I have never forgotten that moment in my life. You miss Gillen, Kirk taught me how to clog because I want to clog dancing contest. And she also she taught me how to count in Swahili up to 10. Japanese up to 10 and French up to 10. I already knew Spanish stop everybody Spanish. She had opened classroom and allowed us to watch TV with our points. And she was fabulous. Mr. Schumacher was my teacher that every last one of my six brothers and sisters had, as we switched schools, three schools for six of us. And I showed up and he was at the school. And they didn't tell my mother that he was the remedial math teacher. I figured probably because I was a black girl and I was being bused to Valley Farms, a white school. And they just figured I was remedial math, which I wasn't. And Mr. Schumacher didn't teach me one new thing, but taught me new ways to think and he opened up my brain is not only good at math, but now I get it. Now I understand why I add bigger, faster, stronger than everybody else. I'm multiplied bigger, faster, stronger, I have a deep understanding, because Mr. Schumacher took. And he couldn't even say the number three, he was German. So I said treat. And so we used to make fun of him. Because even I can say three. But this man taught me how to understand where, why 24 plus 36 is really 20 times 30 plus for a six. And now that's what they call common core. But I learned that in the 70s, right. And then Mr. Norton told me, I love you. Every frickin day he told us that he cares about us as an educator. He was also a math teacher cares about us as kids, and he wants us to be better. And he cares about our progress. And I had two great parents who loved me, I didn't have the little bad history. But to hear this math teacher, this man who didn't look like me at all. Tell me every day how much he cared about us and we rolled our eyes and like only class that I never, ever cheated in, in high school. Because I never wanted to disappoint this teacher who every day took the time to tell us how much he cared. I believed him wholeheartedly. And just as a quick aside, I remember every single black and brown teacher I had from elementary school to 2/12 grade. I can name them, there are five of them. I can name and representation matters. The only reason I can name them is there were so few. I was always happy to see them. But just because they were there and I was happy to see them didn't mean that my other teachers who didn't look like me, didn't have a great effect on my education. They did too. As long as that teacher cared about me and helped me be a better person. They affected me. And so there are multiple layers of teachers and students who helped me be better. And just really quick. I think I'll wrap this up with Mary Kay Stitzel. She was my friend. She was a specialist that student, and I was a student aide in her class, she had a positive impact on my life. Because I taught her how to tell time on the clock. And one day at some assembly, her mother ran over to me and she said, Are you Janine? And I said, Yes, she goes, my daughter is Mary Kay. And she loves you. And you taught her how to tell time. And thank you for being my daughter's friend.

I'll never forget Mary, right. Because Mary was my friend. We were in eighth grade. And she wasn't as smart as me. But what she taught me was that everybody can learn. And everybody has a right to education. And everybody gets better, right? So maybe she was one of the ones who had the most positive impact, because she is one of the people that has helped me relate to my kids no matter their situation, doesn't mean they can't learn doesn't mean they're not special, and doesn't mean they're not valuable. So maybe, maybe it's Mary, maybe Mary Kay is the one.

She taught me that everybody, everybody can learn. And it just didn't matter. It everybody has a right, right. Everybody has a right to an education from people who are the very best they can be.

And that's why it's one of my favorite questions to ask, because it's like you can see. And I hope you can see, too, and I'm sure you do, but like the how these people shaped who you are, you know what I mean? And like the lasting impact that they had, on who you are, as a teacher,

Teachers have a great they have a great impact. There's so you know, and it's so weird, because I forgot Mr. Weinberg, and I'm sure I'll forget a bunch of them. But you know, he's the teacher that taught me to treat my students like their people, because he was my ninth grade ELA teacher. And he taught, he talked to us, like we were people. And then that just amazing that, you know, a teacher just talks to you like you're a human being, and not like you're a subordinate. You're a human, and you're not just a child, you are a person with real thoughts and feelings, and a personality. It's the respect level that you know, you give your kids and my kids always say, you got to get respect to get respect, give respect. And I said, I don't believe that you should respect your elders blah, blah, blah. And this guy, you respect us? Yeah, I just respect humans. Well, you got to respect humans. Yes, you do. You respect the humanity, but I'm still the teacher and I'm still the boss, and I'm still the queen.

Without a doubt, it's challenging work to build mathematical confidence in students who have already begun to absorb the lessons society has taught them, but who can and cannot excel at math. with leaders like Jeanine forging our path forward, there's one thing we're certain of, it said the future is bright. You know, someone who's an inspiring Michigan educator, you should be featured on our show. Send us an email at Bright at michigan virtual.org. And let us know who they are, why you should interview. Thank you for joining us for this episode of bright stories of hope and innovation, Michigan classrooms. This podcast is produced by Kirby Gaylord. It's hosted by me if you heard a shaped by many of her passionate and talented colleagues, big thanks to Ann Pres. Christa green, Terrance Wilkerson, Anna Erin Berry, Sarah Hill and Brandon Batista for their contributions to this episode. Right is brought to you in part by Meemic insurance company, insuring the educational community for more than 70 years. teachers and school employees visit meemic.com/quote to see how much you can save. Bright podcast is made possible by Michigan Virtual nonprofit organization that's leading and collaborating to build learning environments for tomorrow. Education is changing faster than ever. Discover new models and resources to move learning forward at your school at Michigan virtual.org