It's really interesting to have seen both sides of the coin in terms of employee versus employer and the challenges of both.
Welcome to the Business of Architecture. I'm your host, Ryan Willard for today's episode, which will be our deep dive into the ethos of blue pencil collective or B. P. C, a Minnesota based beacon of design excellence, founded on the pillars of purpose, and relationship. B PC stands as a testament to community involvement and the relentless pursuit of sustainability. At the helm of this visionary enterprise, our co founders, Casey Johnson, and Regan Nix industry mavens who have transcended gender norms to steer BPC toward a future ripe with innovation. With a combined 40 years of experience from esteemed design firms. They embody the ethos of the woman business enterprise certified BPC championing inclusivity and progress. Regan, with over a quarter century of expertise brings an exceptional array of residential, commercial and hospitality spaces to life. Her designs are a dialogue between aesthetic and psychology, weaving narratives that celebrate old world charm with a modern twist, inspired by her experiences across the United States and Europe. At BBC she continues to redefine elegance, merging it with practical innovation, Casey, with a robust 14 year trajectory narrate stories through architecture her tenure at globally renowned firms saw her pioneering roles that shaped design landscapes from New York to Newport Beach, her designs, a confluence of art and science resonate on a personal level, leaving an indelible mark on architecture and interior design. So this episode was really interesting because we spoke about branding and the the way that Reagan and Casey had gone about working with a branding consultant, how they put together their identity and how they've been communicating that we talk about partnership, and how that survives, become stronger, and how they work together passionately and deeply with their clients. So really fantastic episode here, sit back, relax and enjoy blue pencil collective.
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so it's time to announce this month 200 Club. If you missed our episode on the 200 Club, listen to VOA episode 485 To learn more about this new initiative for benchmarking small firm performance. So big congratulations for this month 200 Club winners Drew and Justin Tyndall Daniela Spanner Nuan ragga Singh, or any Adams Kimberly Doakes, Mark Elster, Christopher Brandon, Brad Hubbell. Aundrea nemecheck, Yogesh mystery, Marina Robina Yost, Ben de and Denise cat, Christopher Rawlings, Charles scram, Lena bola, David and Kristen where spend Levine Julie and Larry aple Keep up the good work. up, guys. We love it. Regan Casey, Welcome to the Business of Architecture. How are you?
Excited to be here? Excellent.
Well, fantastic to be speaking with you very excited to actually talk with you guys about blue pencil collective, the wonderful, beautiful work, you guys do the residential work, you've got a really gorgeous portfolio. And certainly for me, one of the things that stood out when I kind of came across your work and came across your, your website, particularly as well, actually, it was just how much connection there was. With it, it was very clear that there's, you know, it was its people centric, there's relationship, there's emotion. And it was just very warm. Okay, that was a, it was a very kind of clear emotional experience kind of coming into contact with you. So welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you here. And perhaps we can just jump straight in with why the name blue pencil collective and how did you guys start?
Well, it was really organic, actually. It was something we talked about, we started in a large architecture and interior design company. And it was always our dream at lunchtime walks to open our own company. And then an opportunity literally fell from the sky in our laps. And so we jumped on it. And one of the things that we always wanted to strive for, and we knew that would be important in the business is to always be editing and growing and never stop learning. And so the meaning of blue pencil, the literal meaning is like editing. And they use it manuscripts and different types of formats that can't be copied. So although all this editing and changes are mean being made, behind the scenes, the final product is what everyone sees on. It's amazing. So that's how we like to think of our businesses, everything that's happening behind the scenes and all the editing and growing. And then the abstract way to think or the literal way to think about it, I should say is the blueprints, like blueprints.
And it's all about like an evolution to is not just with us, but us with our clients and just the business as a whole, which is another reason why we didn't choose Reagan and Casey design an architecture it was it's always been a dream to be something bigger. So making it not just about us, but about everybody who touches VPC.
Amazing. So, when you first started, what was the kind of projects that you were winning? And how did you how did those projects come about? You said that it was very fortuitous.
For the first project was a residential and it was a rather large residential, we thought it was going to be a friend small cabin. But when he sent the drawings and what their vision was, it was actually 11,000 square feet. So that was a full time job for about two years. And then that kind of segwayed into additional residential projects. We had always worked in the commercial realm and healthcare and higher education. And so this was really our first dabbling into residential. But it was so exciting and the personal connection was something we hadn't been able to experience before with our clients. So that was just so fulfilling.
Great, and and since then, how have you kind of nurtured a kind of consistent flow of work into the business? How have you managed to weather the storm? How long have you guys been going for?
We just celebrated seven years in January. So graduations? Yeah, Lucky number seven. I think again, it was really organic. I think building our portfolio of course has been really helpful in gaining those dreamy clients. And yeah, just really showing people who we are unfiltered has really led us and led people to be PC that are the right fit.
Great. We mentioned a little bit last time we spoke as well, we were talking about the brand. And obviously that was the, you know, one of the things that I was trying to kind of convey at the outset there was the was the feeling that we get. Can you tell us a little bit about how you've developed and grown your brand as the blue pencil collective over the last seven years? Where did it? Where did it start? What was it? What did it used to be like? What were some of the the problems or challenges that you faced? And how, what's the story of how it's evolved?
I think it's been a work in progress. I think we didn't really know who we were at the very beginning. And it's taken us seven years to get to where we are with the brand right now. And it wasn't until I'd say maybe two or three years ago that we really started to figure out who BPC is, because it it is really this like living thing that that we have to nurture continuously and decide who it is. So we met our brand team, and they were the ones that really
helped us define our gifts and bring out our personality, I think prior to having our brand team on on, first of all, to finding the right brand team is is a challenge in and of itself. Because we are finding prior to our our 18 brand team, it was really difficult to to express what we wanted, and what we could envision. And I imagine that's almost what our clients go through, as well as trying to have someone that just gets it intuitively who you are what you're looking for, and can understand your vision without us having to say a whole lot. So when we found them, it was just, it was we always say magic when you find that connection. And it really was and they were able to bring out of us what we had been trying to find for so long. And so now that guides us that brand actually guides us in our conversations about our business that guides us in every detail down to what we wear. When we're representing the brand, and who our clients are, it's just really been a game changer. And it's so exciting. And you know, it just changed our whole worlds.
What was the process that they led you through? And and how did you know that they were the right fit? You know, were there other brand agencies where you were like, No, this is definitely that's not gonna work? And yes, what was what were some of the deciders that had you settled on this on the company that you worked with?
I think their process was something that we really connected with right away. It's actually a very civil, since it is a creative process. It's a very similar process that we use with our clients. And we've actually we learned a lot from that process and applied it to how we lead our clients through the design process. But yeah, just taking every milestone in baby steps, was really important with us. And just the, I guess organic collaboration that we had with them was really helped, it really helped us give the feedback that they needed to bring it to the next level.
And I think it was the authenticity of the relationship and the candidness. And I was just feeling like ourselves in them, you know, gravitating towards that.
What kinds of exercises did they do review where they where they came to know, like the kind of vision and the future of the business and, and help you establish kind of core values or what was that a lot of that already done?
We did, we had gone through several different types of brand exercises before our most recent brand or current brand. But I don't think that we necessarily really used those. She pretty much started from scratch. But one of the things that she did that was a little different was it was a type of like business personality test. And ours was like explore and we both had to do it separately, but it was about the business and then our final and we got the same result. Yeah. So that was interesting. But our brand archetype is the Explorer explorer, the Explorer so the under the Explorer is all these things like it venture and trying new things
never being comfortable. Yeah. Which goes hand in hand with why we even chose our company name. Yeah.
So it was really interesting to see the results from that. And then from that stemmed a lot of
brand identity. Yeah.
Got it. And then and then and then the process after that was kind of starting to become pinned down. And there's a like a psychology behind it all the some of the things that you want to be expressed, what was the what what sorts of things did you then develop as kind of marketing assets, if you like.
So they did a whole entire style guide. So we had our fonts, you know, our title fonts, we had our brand, main logo, secondary logo, call colors, and when to use those colors. We actually have our own blue pencil blue now. And then this dot right down to business cards, how we sign off on an email, or any type of letter. Every it literally is collateral that covers all spectrums of a business, our proposals are brand, heavily branded, right. And they're very interactive. So technology is something that's really big with us too, especially in this industry. So it's always fun when we bring up our proposals, because they're live, and they're interactive. And so um, you know, just showing the world and our clients to that we're forward thinking is really important with the brand as well. So yeah, it's, it's everything. Yeah.
And then from there, it was, how does this apply to our website? And in order to have the collateral for the website, how do we photograph our projects? So it was really this holistic approach to VPC? Got
it? Did you have to rephotographed any work? Or? Because I mean, often I hear when people do go for like a large rebranding, or brand evolution that they'll often hire a photographer. And then they'll rephotographed projects that have been photographed in the past to get more consistency with Did you do anything like that? Or
I don't know that we re photographed old projects, but it was actually good timing, where we had several new projects come completing. So we ended up doing I think, like, three photoshoots, within like, a couple of weeks, which was a really big endeavor for the whole team, but was probably one of my favorite moments in the last couple years. So yeah.
I think also, it was okay for us, we decided for us and the brand team to see the evolution of the company. And to let people know, it's okay. Like, you don't start where we are right now. Yeah, that's not It's not realistic. And that's something we've always wanted to show small business owners is that, you know, a lot of companies you see after they are successful and big and, and it seems easy. And to just let people know, that small, creating your own business from scratch, it isn't easy. And there is evolution, and it takes time and lessons learned and all of that. So that ultimately became, you know, sort of the visual and seeing where we started and how we got to where we are
in terms of your own business evolution. How many people are there now? On your team?
Seven?
Yeah. Seven, seven years? Like you seven, so seven, seven of you. How has your role changed since the over the last seven years? What do you what do you find yourself doing more of now that you didn't expect that you would have been doing? And what's the kind of day to day you know, what's, what's the role? What's your role evolution as practice leaders?
Well, every day is different. Yeah.
Every day is very, very different. I think what the hardest thing for us to nail down was, what I what is my strengths versus what are Casey's strengths and then really being able to separate those roles because we have our hands and everything as partners, but you know, I typically like to do construction administration and I love the whole being on the job site and talking with the contractors and problem solving. The construction details. So, um, I have moved further away from the design aspect and more into that role. And I never thought I would like project management management. In fact, I was like anti project management, and now I actually love it. And what's weird about that as I am the least organized person in the world that you will ever meet. The fact that I love that aspect is has really been pretty crazy and not something I would have ever seen, like, I don't, I don't like calendars, I don't even understand calendars.
To express that deep level of organization you didn't know was there? Yeah, yeah,
it's really been that maybe that's what it is, is that like, Oh, I really can actually manage people on a calendar and times and stuff. So that's been really interesting. And
then I've always been really passionate about design, and just the artistic reasoning behind every decision. I come from an art and art history background. So that's always been ingrained in me. So we love to do everything together. But I think we've realized that we can't do everything all the time. And I surprisingly, love the operations of the business. And I continue to learn and see that as a challenge, where I can always learn something new and apply it to other areas of the business or of life. So it's been really fun to find each of our roles. very naturally.
How, how have you evolved and refine some of the business systems in the firm? And to kind of like, you know, be better tracking with money and keeping projects profitable? Or is still some of that still a challenge? Or how do you how do you guys approach it?
I think we'll always be learning. I mean, we, neither of us have a like business degree or background. We're doing this because we love it. And we love to learn and challenge ourselves. So I think it'll be an ongoing learning experience, and always look for ways that we can improve things and efficiencies. I don't think there's one way of doing things we've read like books on how to do your business, and how to track everything. And we take what we need from all of those. But at the end of the day, I think we do really good at regrouping, and really figuring out what's best for us in the business, because it's not a one size fits all.
And I also really believe in bringing in the experts for certain aspects of your business and making sure that you have those people on hand. At the beginning. You know, we didn't even know what experts we needed to have. We knew really nothing about financials of a business, we didn't know what a p&l was. We had no idea. We didn't understand taxes and the tax structure of businesses. So that's really heavy stuff. And the whole financial aspect of a small business, any type of small business is pretty, pretty intense. And so we have a fantastic accountant who helps us through a lot of understanding of different statements and all of that we also have a fantastic bookkeeping company that keeps us on track that way. So I highly recommend for anyone to get to get the best bookkeeper and accountant that you can, and that will help you really through some of those challenging things.
That's really solid advice. And there's so many people actually will try and do the bookkeeping and the accounting themselves. And it's just frightening. Yeah, yeah. And
what happens is we tried to do it ourselves. And then it when we started to get bigger, it was like, Okay, now we absolutely have to have a bookkeeper. And when they came in, it took them almost a year to clean everything. Certainly didn't save us any money to do it ourselves. And so yeah, so definitely get yourself some a seat, a good CPA and a good bookkeeper.
That's very, very insightful. In terms of winning work. How do you how has that changed since the beginning? So you were saying, you know, the first project you had was, was a cabin that kind of expand They didn't size and became very substantial. How have you won work since then? And how do you continue to win work? Is it? Are you more networkers? Or do you have digital marketing out or advertising? Or is it a lot of it referral base.
A lot of it is referrals. But now we're starting to dabble in PR, and what we can do differently with marketing. So now we've actually brought on someone for that specific role. So it'll be really interesting to see how that sort of investment in not just a role, but financially, how that changes, how we start to bring in some of these projects.
And previously, up until the last year, we had not done any paid advertising, or PR was all earned media opportunities, which weren't a lot. But now we've really amped up that, that part of the business now that we wanted to wait until we had a really good process and foundation down as a business before we started really putting ourselves out there heavily. So now that we're doing that, but going back to your question on, where do we see our how have our roles changed? Or what do we see ourselves doing that we didn't think we would, and I think something I had no idea about was the mountain networking you do as a business owner, and how you have to show up. And so many ways, and in so many places, and it's very, it's, it takes a lot of energy, and you kind of always have to be on. So that was something I've I've never really had to do prior to this position. And it's not something that comes natural to me. And what's funny is I, I talk a lot, a lot, and I don't know when to stop, as you can tell. Can you see doesn't talk very much on the daily, but when we are in a networking setting, she is a rock star, and I'm kinda like, I don't know what to say, or seven total totally switches. And then I just follow her around because I'm like, Oh, let her just, she's, she's great at this. I'm just gonna stay in the background. But yeah, networking is huge.
Again, that's, that's very insightful, what you say about, you didn't realize, like how you're going to have to be like, on so much of the time, and you never know when you could be talking to a prospective client. And actually, you know, you've got to make these decisions. Is this event worth the one? Is it? Should I go and do it? Or should I be doing the work? Or should we be looking at the accounts, and there's a whole world of stuff that suddenly, you know, opens up that you didn't realize that you had to be responsible for, tell us a little bit about bringing on team members, because this isn't easy. And it's difficult to find the right people, it's difficult to have people actually stick around once you have found the talent. Now we're in the world of kind of communication and group dynamics, and people and emotions and tensions and all this kind of stuff. How have you built a team? And what have been some of the challenges that you've experienced? And how have you overcome some of those challenges?
Founders is one way, one way to put it. I think the generational differences too, are huge. I, in my generation, when I grew up, it was like, I was told, you know, I have a baby, and I better be back on the work floor by within an hour later. So it's like you need to be working, need to be working, but you need to be working. And I think that, you know, a lot of that is changing. There's different ways of working now than, than in me and for you too. So I think one of the things is just understanding that the way people work differently and how the generations work differently, and then finding a way to work with that is a challenge in and of itself. And then I'm finding the right fit of people so you can look at a portfolio that's fantastic. And we used we love everyone. So literally everyone we would meet we'd be like You're hired. You're hired. And so then later, we'd be like, you know, really, liking someone as a person is very different than, you know, who is the right person for this particular role. So, with technology, now, it's been really awesome, because we've taken a lot of we've taken advantage of it in terms of having a lot of consultants first, and it's kind of a trial period for them and for us, and using that time to see if we're a good fit before we commit to full employment. So that's been amazing and really been successful, the most successful staffing process we've had to date as having that trial period. And we have found people through word of mouth, we get a lot of applications and portfolios sent to us. And then we've used hiring apps too. So when
I think finding someone that fits well within a small business to because that is very different than a larger corporation. So finding someone that has the ability to fill other roles and wear a lot of hats, because we do too. And when something comes in, where we need someone to jump into a different role, they're open and willing to do so. And a lot of times that happens organically, too, we'll be working with someone and we notice something and we're like, we didn't know you could do that. Like, we want you to do more of that if you want to. And so it's it's really fun to see other people learn and evolve in what they want to do as well.
And I think, for me, personally, one thing that has been really interesting is I was always on the employee side. And obviously, and then now as a business owner and a leader and an employer, it's very different to see how I used to the things that I used to bring to my boss and be, you know, like maybe crying about that I need this, I need that, like, I'm not going to do this, and I don't want to do that. And I you know, it's just funny, because I'm like, that was me. So it's really interesting to have seen both sides of the coin, in terms of employee versus employer and the challenges of both.
I think that's a very kind of well rounded perspective is to have that, to have the experience of both. And I know, certainly from my own experience, I look back on how I was as an employee, and I think
much I didn't how much I didn't realize what was happening. Yeah. And, and and the risks that business owners were taking in order for me to be able to be there, there was not I didn't I just didn't understand and understand the the mechanisms that were at play and why certain things were the way they were. And this is also interesting in terms of, you know, when we talk about leadership, and we're often talking about transparency, and how certainly, like, I would say that older generation of architectural design practices, it's always been closed doors and not going to give you much information. And now we're starting to see, actually, and certainly when when you're talking about the generational difference, that actually transparency is very useful and very, very powerful. And in being able to empower other people to see where their position is in the in the organization. And also see, here's what other people are dealing with, to make the to make the ship just go forward. Yes. This is the energy that's being required. And that can be quite, you know, quite quite profound, actually. Interesting. You were talking about finding the right fit and making the distinction between liking somebody, and you know, can they actually do the job. And this is really difficult actually, and and like hiring is a really emotional, like, we're trying not to be emotional about it. But you get into a conversation and if you're empathetic and a good person, you can connect with someone and It's intoxicating. Yeah, you could literally be like, Oh, wow, they're theirs. They're so great. They're amazing. And then it's difficult to not let that color. The you know, well. Are they competent? How they, how they're going to behave under stress, how they're going to take instruction, how they're going to take direction. How are they going to how they're gonna respond when they're being held accountable, which is totally different relationship to, like a, like a friend dynamic or a peer dynamic, I think, for business owners is actually, it's quite a, it's quite eye opening, it's quite a learning curve.
Yeah. And I think that's a mistake that we've made in the past, especially in a small office, because, you know, we hear everything each other suing, we end up, you know, chit chatting. And I think in the past, we have definitely made that mistake of getting too close with employees, and then almost probably both of us taking advantage of the situation a little bit or, you know, taking it one step too far, where you're not a leader anymore, or seen as a leader, you're seen as equals. And not that we're all about hierarchy or anything, but there has to be some level of, you know, professional boundaries there. Yeah. And, um, yeah, and so now, that is something we are very, very careful of, and trying to keep that, you know, let, it's like we let ourselves go a little bit into that friend role, you know, to make everyone comfortable and create the, the environment that you're speaking of that, you know, where you're, it's free to express yourself and all of that, but then still keeping that boundary there and letting it be no one. Yes.
Yeah. And I think that is, it's not easy to do that. And it kind of depends on the on your personalities, and perhaps there's a natural tendency just to want to be friends. And actually, you know, the, the hierarchical structures that that a business needs, is it a business needs, the business needs leadership, and it needs hierarchy, and it needs structure. I'm often very concerned when I speak with, you know, design firms, and they'll say, Oh, we're completely flat, A flat structure. And even that means that there's a bottleneck in the business where decisions don't get made very well. And it's going to be very difficult, or they're talking about something more general, like, you know, when we design, everyone is around the table, and everyone can can chip in ideas, because that's different. That's not that's not an organizational hierarchy. That's, that's getting everyone's creative input. And you know, having a young designer sit at the table with the senior designs, that's very beneficial. And that's a can opener and create dialogue. But, you know, somebody's got to be leading, leading the practice and has to make decisions about it. And not everyone is always going to be enrolled in it. But there needs to be trust in the in the leader who's, who's doing that. How do you how do you do it together as friends?
That's hard to I wouldn't say when you say we're basically married, so it's like, it's hard. It's just like a marriage? I mean. Yeah. Most days. Yeah. I mean, it is, it's not all bells and whistles, we do just like a marriage have to work through. I mean, some of the hardest things probably in our lives, at certain points. We really have to stay, we have to just remember that in the end, we're on the same side, and we love each other. So how do we make it through this together? Ultimately, but um, I think defining our roles is something that has helped us a lot in terms of, you know, we, like Casey said, we used to say, Well, we both are going to do construction management, you know, and then it turns out that one of us doesn't like a certain aspect or does like at night, you know, or we're both gonna do design. And one of us might struggle on that, and then trying to put that amount of pressure on each other for that. It's like you finally realize, like, wait, maybe we just need to separate this differently. So it's a lot of trial and error, a lot of trust. I think trust is absolutely the foundation of making a partnership work. And then just respecting each other and knowing that we each offer something different to this business. And they're both very bad, although very different, both very valuable. And, surprisingly, overall, over the seven years, I feel like there's never really been a need for a third party to step in and make any decisions. We're equal, which everyone said that's not going to work. So that yes, we understand now after seven years why people would say that. But overall, we tend to agree pretty much on the big decisions and when they need to be You made? And what is the right for the business, we always say what's right for the business first, and then go from there.
That's the again, it's interesting that you bring up in general business advice, that 5050 partnership is always very risky. them, because, you know, you can get to us, you can really get to a stalemate, stay on miles positions, and then that can kind of hinder the business. Yeah, all together. And so having the philosophy of like, okay, well, what, what serves the business is pretty key.
Yeah. And I think, just on the more personal side, so there's the business aspect of that of like, the decision making and, and everything but then, and the money splitting, obviously, that is based on the percentage of ownership. But it's also a mindset. So if we're 5050, you can get caught up in this, like, well, I'm actually doing more, and then she is, but we're getting paid the same, or we have the same rates and all of this, or vice versa, you know, like, so you gotta be really careful, or I'm working these hours, and she's not and all that. So you have to be really careful to not let that start to cloud your vision of what reality is.
How do you how do you broach those sorts of difficult conversations with each other? Um, without it building an exploding?
Yeah, I was just gonna say usually gets to the point where it's like, we hold it in, hold it in. And then if there's an explosion, we work through it. And it's
like any relationship is just figuring out the balance between two people. Yep. That's what it comes down to.
And really learning that, that differences are good. And, you know, I'm a morning person, she's a night person
anymore.
Well, yeah, that's true. But typically, that's how it's been. And so then it's like, well, I'm online at five, and she's online at midnight, you know, and so, we're two ships sailing in the night in that regard. And so you just have to realize, like, that's when she works best. This is when I work best. And so just having it's a lot of self reflection, I would say more than anything as is really what we've learned, especially me is like, understanding what's truth and, and self reflecting, and, and then in totality, it makes me a better person in life realizing that so.
And there's, and there's also like, in the context of the relationship, there's the, you know, a commitment to each other and to the business. Yes, I am. Because I think that's really important, actually, is that you guys, you know, you there's a there's a space where you're, you're okay with having the arguments, whatever way it comes out, as long as it comes out. And if it's a bit of a, you know, shouting at each other for a little bit, and then it dies down whatever, that but there's, it's inside of the framework of being committed to, to the business or committed to something ideal. And there's a commitment to also being able to work it out. And I trust that it can be worked out through your speaking that's that's kind of the challenge of the relationship, but also the reflection of it being it working. And it being an amazing place to conclude the conversation. They're very inspiring stuff. Thank you so much for your time, and for giving us a little peek, the scenes of business. So I really appreciate your contributions today and sharing your expertise.
Thank you so much, Ryan, it was a joy to be here. And
that's a wrap. And one more thing. If you haven't already, please do head on over to iTunes or Spotify. And leave us a review. We'd love to read your name out here on the show. And we'd love to get your feedback. And we'd love to hear what it is that you'd like to see more of and what you love about the show already.
And now a word from today's sponsor. A while ago, I begin to hear reports of a company that was helping some of our clients build remote teams. We looked into it more closely and discovered the company world teams that was helping small architectural practitioners build remote teams that were both capable and qualified. I was intrigued by another business that addressing one of the critical pain points for small architectural practices, which is the ability to grow and shrink a team effectively to be able to handle higher workflow without having to staff up significantly and also being very sensitive about labor costs. World teams is built to address these issues. World teams is a small but mighty company that helps architectural practices build high performing remote teams quickly and efficiently, saving you the headache of sorting resumes and interviewing under qualified candidates. World teams operates in your timezone and prioritizes near native English speakers ensuring clear and efficient communication with your remote team members. They have flexible contracts so you can adjust your team size as your needs evolve. Additionally, you're connected directly with your skilled professionals, which fosters trust and collaboration and world themes helps you reduce your operating costs without compromising the quality that is so important to a practice. To download a free guide for building a remote team for small architectural practice. Go to business of architecture.com forward slash world teams. That's one word business of architecture.com forward slash world teams. As a reminder, sponsorship is not an endorsement and you must do your own due diligence before entering into any business relationship. Go to business of architecture.com forward slash world teams.
The views expressed on this show by my guests do not represent those of the host and I make no representation, promise guarantee, pledge warranty, contract, bond or commitment except to help you the unstoppable
