Episode 119 - Complete

Vinny Welsby1h 27min

Speaker 100:00

You're listening to the first party podcast episode 119 canceled culture and fineness in fat spaces. Let's do it. I'm Victoria Welsby TEDx speaker, Best Selling Author and fat activist. I have transformed my life from hating my body with desperately low self esteem to being a courageous and confident fifth party who loves every inch of this jelly. society teaches us living in a fat body is bad. But what if we spent less time, money and energy on the pursuit of thinness and instead focused on the things that actually matter? Like if pineapple on pizza should be outlawed? Or if the mullet was the greatest haircut of the 20th century? So how do you stop a negative beliefs about your fat body controlling your life? It's the first fatty podcast let's begin

Speaker 101:18

Hey, 30s So welcome to the podcast today. Tell you what I do for big ol fucking brain nap after this during the research for today, or even, you know, just delving in and collating everything to talk about what I want to talk about today. Big old brain nap I need. So I'm going to talk about briefly the situation with lindo bacon. I don't know I just said briefly that it's not going to be brief at all. But why I said briefly, is because I'm going to talk about Linda Bacon. And what's happened with Mikey Mercedes. And the reason why I said briefly is that you should go to Mikey Mercedes page Patreon. And read her words about this. And so, you know, I'm not talking about exact exactly everything that's, you know, blow by blow that has happened because my key has done an incredible job of talking about this. And yeah, so you know, it's not my place to talk about this in regards to the Mikey and Lindow situation, but I wanted to talk about fineness and canceled culture because I see a lot of people being confused maybe about what's happening and how to respond and what to do and is then they're being canceled and, and what is canceling? And is canceled culture real or is it not real and, and there's, there's lots of different things going by, and sometimes it's kind of hard to know, right? What's the best thing to do? So I want to give the information in regards to council culture in quotation marks and thinness in fat spaces as how I see it. And the opinions that I've formed over the last year, year or so. So for those who don't know even anything about what I'm talking about week ago, now Mikey Mercedes, and you've, you've heard me speak about Mikey on the podcast, probably maybe like 10 times now and I've said that I'm subscribed to Mikey's Patreon because, like, you talked about great stuff anyway, so I got an email a week ago, and it's a Patreon post that Mikey wrote, and anyone can read it. I'm going to link absolutely absolutely everything in the show notes today. It's podcast. First party.com forward slash 119 for Episode 19 facebook.com, forward slash 119. Or if you forget the number it's just Ford slash podcast facebook.com forward slash podcast. So yeah, Mikey released a post on her Patreon that everyone can read and in it it details an interaction with Linda Bacon lindo is non binary and uses they them pronouns just as an FYI. So Linda wrote a book called Health every size. And, by the way, lindo didn't create Health, every size movement, they just wrote a book called Health every size. So Linda wants to rewrite the book and approached Mikey to be a co author. So this is a very basic overview of what's in what's inside this post that Mike, you wrote. Very, very basic overview, okay, there's lots in there, go and read it yourself if you haven't already. And so Mikey wanted to change the problematic things in the book in Hayes in health every size. I don't know if you've read how that every size, I read it. Years ago, when I first came into this work, and at the time, I remember there was a chapter that I needed to skip over, because there was a chapter where I was like, eat this and don't eat that. And I was like, Oh, I don't like that, even at the time. And so that's one big thing that needs to change. But also, there's other aspects like, focusing so, so much on health and the good fatty thing, and a real lack of fat people talking about this stuff. You know, there's no fat voices in the book, who's a thin, white person.

Speaker 106:20

And yeah, so there's and, and the idea on body love and stuff like that. And so anyway, Mikey was like, Yeah, we should change the problematic things and Lindos like, yeah, gray. Okay. Yeah, but no, and so wasn't down with it and then said, you know, this club is not going to work out because my key didn't want to put her name against the book, which was full of things that could harm someone. So Mikey pointed out that Linda was being Mike Mikey pointed out being thin and white and centering themselves, in a movement created by and for fat, marginalized voices wasn't great. And maybe after, I don't know, 20 years of being the V person in a fat movement as a thin person, maybe they might consider passing the torch to people who movements made for fat people and family with other marginalized Asians. And then de was like, Yeah, LOL nap. Now, I don't want to do that. You know? No, no, thanks. Yeah. So Mikey, very patiently tried to explain saying was harmful, they did not listen. And so my key was, was, you know, you can tell Mike was being so patient and be like, Listen, you know, I don't normally, you know, when people are harming me, I don't normally go to the effort of, of helping them understand why this might be inappropriate. And I've done a really kind of basic job of explaining the interaction there go in, and you'll see so many different things I've not even mentioned. So anyway, the call ended and emails to try and get her to engage further. And in one even said, even said that, if we let marginalized people talk, then we're basically this is what she's basically said, If we let marginalized people have the stage, then we're going to be discriminate against white people. This is a quote, I'm thinking. So this is an email that sent to Mike, after I'm thinking particularly about your belief that white people need to step back for black people to move forward. While I didn't use this language, in our call, I'm concerned, that concept is a continuation of supremacy, just with different people in power. I mean, can you imagine? It's, I mean, it's not unbelievable, because, you know, white people are going to white, and we're going to want to uphold white supremacy, and say shit like, well, if we let other people take the sage, then they're just going to that is just a continuation of supremacy, which is what Linda was saying. That's one thing that really stuck out to me like the blatant racism sent another email and was trying to get Mikey to engage in a public debate about this. Basically, fat ally then being a fat ally versus fat per ship person. And the debate being fat person saying, hey, I can speak for myself please. Let me and fat ally saying no, that's not a good idea, as you'll take take too much power from white people. What? That's not a debate that is not a debate. That is not a debate that anyone wants to hear. You know, and then it kind of rubs salt in the room too. When I think about this other quote, I have listened to marginalize people. And people have given me given me the right to kind of speak on some of these issues, like a lot of fat people. Like, it's a lot of fat people that really adore my work and appreciate it. That really rubs me the wrong way. Because it's kind of like fat people like me, so I can talk on their behalf. Lynne and Mikey was pointing out, we're fat people are held hostage, and we can't speak. Because what thin people are in this space, which is meant to be for fat people. And then if they decide they want to share the stage, literally, metaphorically, then the you know, we have to be so gracious and, and thank you. And really, they don't want to share this stage. And that's really sad, because if we do then

Speaker 111:19

apparently black people are going to take over and that's not good. So yeah, I'm not gonna talk about that whole, that whole piece. Please go and read it. If you haven't, there's so much more that I'm not even, you know, I'm totally missing. So much more analysis there. So, I mean, it just just speaks for itself really go and read it. So that came out. Then shortly after Lindley Ashley Ashley ASHLine. Ashley, I'm going to ask her how you say her last name. It Lindley from body liberation photos.com. Or you can find her own links are in the show notes. You find her on Instagram anyway, wrote a piece sharing how she too had had a shit experience. So this is what Lindley says, quote, last week I connected with Mikey and she told me an abbreviated version of her experience. I basically spent the whole time clutching my face in horror I a white woman had gotten less paternalism and condensation. condescension. Mikey, a black woman got the whole shebang. my conversation with Mikey is an example of how whisper networks in communities and the purposes they serve. When we have missing stairs, I'll tell you about that in a second, especially missing stairs, you hold immense power and respect. Back channels are often the only way we can protect ourselves. So missing stairs, the links to a Wikipedia page just to describe what we explain what missing stairs is. This is what Wikipedia says. The Missing stair is a metaphor for a person within a social group, who many people know is untrustworthy, or otherwise has to be managed, but who the group chooses to work around by trying to quietly warn others of their behavior rather than deal with them and their behavior openly. The Missing stare in the metaphor refers to a dangerous structural faults such as a missing step in a staircase, a fault that people may become used to and quietly accepting of is not openly signposted or fixed. And that newcomers to a social group are warned about discreetly. So within these experiences is what then Lisa's published a lengthy essay titled critiquing social justice dogma, to astor's private listserv. And so this it's so long I've only got through so because someone sent it to meet you anonymously. Because you can't read it unless at that point, someone else's. Someone has shared it now publicly. It was in like a private on as does website as D H. And so you couldn't read it, as does stands for Association for Size, diversity and health. And so they hold the trademark for health every size. I think I mentioned that in last week's episode. I feel like I've mentioned that before. Imagine this being a thin person and using the audience of fat people to publish your thoughts to about how and so the what, what Lindos their, their article was, was saying we should not want to hold people accountable because it's bad. And it was filled with with racism and fatphobia and basically positioned Fat people as these angry people who are unreasonable, who are saying, Stop being mean to us and, and thin white people as these innocent people just go in about their business and fat people come and like, cancel them and ruin their careers. That was what it was about. And actually, the fat Dr. ASHA has written a piece on their Patreon, which is free for everyone to read, which is Linda Bacon privilege and the impact on the fat community which dissects it and actually says they can't dissect the whole thing because it's 7000 words but you know, they've gone through as much as they can. Talking about this, this post made Yeah, and so just going skimming over ashes. piece is basically positioning there was a victim. When people start to fear accountability, you know that they're guilty of something and we'll talk about that more in a moment. Whom we choose to prioritize says a lot about us.

Speaker 116:21

And it paints a disturbing picture. It's minimizing the damage caused by abuse. Lindos warped understanding of accountability is self serving at best and sociopathic at worst.

Speaker 116:40

It lindows complete disregard for the fact experiences telling. And Lindos rubbish solution. Yeah, so. I mean, again, link to this in the show notes. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot there. Yes. Okay. So let's get let's get back to it. Let's get back to this. All right. Okay. So, Lindley, emailed and said, Hey, I read your piece. It was certainly interesting. It kind of echoes the same sentiments that we hear time and time again, that fat spaces are not safe for fat people. And fat people are accused of being like, you know, the angry fat mob sort of thing. And so Linda respond, responds, and Lindo, this is what they said. This is what Lindley said he's got a hard with a lip Lin li N Dooney. Lin. Okay, so I was informed that I didn't get it because I hadn't studied enough. I didn't get it because I hadn't read their book yet. So they had a new book coming out at the time called Radical belonging, I think from the top of my head, they had a hard time, quote, offering up grace to me. So if you read Lindsay's post, you can hear another there's another thing called FUPA gate, which is where a thin white provider harmed fat people. And then there was another instance where they harmed black people. And they were asked by people in their local community to join in a accountability process, and they refuse to engage. And so Linda was talking about Maria and the fact that she refused to engage and was saying how it's a bad thing that people asked Maria to try to fix the harm that she had caused. Okay, continuing what Lindsey saying we're all scared to speak up because we fear rejection as opposed to the very real fears are further oppression and marginalization that fat and black people hold. So yes, so then so so that came out so Linnaeus piece came out again go read it there's so much more stuff in there that I'm not going to be covering. So then after after he holds a trademark for health every size came out as well with their experience and basically their experience was told them that they wanted to read they wanted to rewrite the book let they as in wanted to rewrite the book health every size, bear in mind that health every size is owned by Asda and so as to said hey, we think it's time that the person that centered in you know, in the movement should be people with the most marginalized identities should be super fat people it should be black fat people, it should be trans fat people that should be disabled fat people, not a thin white person. And, and so forth. Veronica, from Mazda sent this really good email, I got that email. I'd be like, Oh, okay, okay. And I'm sure I would have been like, oh, fuck, you know, this is my book, I want to write it, but I would have sat with it and being like, yeah, yeah, I'm glad my first book was meaningful for you. The rest of your email did not land well, I'm going to take a pass on responding to your questions, or engaging, kept emailing about other stuff, saying, hey, you know, give me this and whatever. And, you know, it was sent like, it felt like I've 5 billion emails, even though they said, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to engage on this topic of me taking up space in a community that I should not be taking up space it. So, again, go read that in the show notes. And since then, more and more people have come forward, because it took a poor, disabled, black person, woman, Mikey, to do that first step, where everyone else just kept quiet. For various reasons, you know, some of them absolutely legitimate because you don't want to ruin your career by the being the person who speaks up against the person who has the most power inside a movement. And for some, some people, especially if someone who is, is fat, and has other marginalized identities, if they're getting paid. They don't want to risk losing money, rightfully so. And so, Mikey did it, which is just amazing. And incredible. And so, a lot of thin white dieticians have supported Mike in Italy, and as and everyone else. And of course, you know, that that people as well. But really who we want to hear from is the thin white dietitians to say oh, yeah, this is fucked up. Like yeah,

Speaker 122:07

why is it movements? Like, health every size? Like intuitive eating like body positivity? Why is it that these movements that should be centering the most marginalized bodies, and majority Lee made more? The majority of these movements are created by fat people? Why the fuck? Is it a sea of thin white faces? Why is it that everyone who's got a book deal? Not everyone, but you know, all the big book deals have gone to thin white women. Why is that? What I mean? Strange, isn't it? And so the thin white dieticians, you know that a lot of them say, Yeah, I mean, that is a bit strange. And hey, listen, we should be we should be stepping back and, and giving space for people with more marginalized identities to come to the front. It's going to make it better for everyone. However, there have been a few people crying, council culture, council culture. And so if you're a kind person who cares about people, and also wants to advocate for people with marginalized identities, and you're not familiar with the the politics behind canceled culture, it can be very easy to say, Yeah, shit, yeah, maybe we shouldn't say Say, say things about lindo. Because it could hurt their mental health and it could make them sad. And can we not just do this in another way? You know, so. I know, I've certainly had in the past about Council culture being like, you know, what, I don't like people being dickheads you know, and is that what Kancil culture is? I don't like it when people are dickheads. And then I read the book by Jon Ronson, so you've been canceled. And I was like, kind of looking for some really good analysis on it. And didn't get it. I just got kind of, oh, here's someone who, who made a faux par. And was it really that big a deal should they have have lost their job because This faux pas and helping them kind of get their life together, you know, quotations afterwards. And I was like, well hang on, where's the where's the rest of it? You know, like, where's the other side of the story? They kind of left me kind of like nah. Anyway so I was just I'm just curious about that. I'm just curious. I'm just curious positive. And in my, you know, just wanting to learn more about

Speaker 125:32

the concept of Cancel Cancel culture and, and all that type of stuff anyway, so I want you to read a post to you that I made yesterday, just with some thoughts in like a basic primer, we're going to get in a little bit a little bit deeper. Okay, so my post is I start with a quote from from Mikey, the quote is to put it simply eating in matters of fat. The thinnest and widest people, often under the guise of owlish. Allyship have benefited the most socially personally and professionally. And then the next slide I say, so is lindo bacon being canceled? And I wrote some thoughts. lindo did not create health every size, they wrote a book with that title. lindo is not the only person who has slash is doing research and writing around Hays concepts. Yet they are the person who is seen as the quote, leader in a movement that should center fat, black and other marginalized voices. Linda was thin and white, yet they take up an enormous amount of space in this movement. lindo didn't just make a one time error. There are multiple accounts of folks very generously calling in Lindo, only for their rightful concerns to be dismissed, met with defensiveness and refusal to engage in discussion. This has happened over years, you may have seen some mostly thin and white people claim it is unfair that lindo is being called to repair the harm they have done, citing Kancil culture Kancil culture as a concept is used by people with the most privilege and power in society as a way to protect themselves from the consequences of their harmful behavior. Calling out people and asking them not to hurt those with less power is a way people who are marginalized can exercise agency and ask for accountability, normally at great risk to themselves. People who are leaders in the anti cancel culture movement say that lindo shouldn't see consequences because their behavior wasn't, quote, physical violence or abuse. And here we've got a quote from anti diet fatty who says, This isn't a disagreement between two people that makes it sound so distorted so by your own different definition. Here's why this isn't cancer culture. Oppression is abuse. So I continue oppression is violence and is abuse spaces that should be centering the most marginalized fat people are led by and filled with those with the most privilege. That's simply not okay. Why is it some people are more concerned about whether it is canceled than the pain that has been caused by them for decades? Thin White feelings are not more important than the humanity and safety of people with marginalized identities. No was not being canceled. Aster has asked to engage with them in a community accountability process has not yet appeared to be willing to engage. Okay, so that's that's my post and I'm a bum bum bum so basically, as the has said, Your fucked up. People have said you fucked up you fucked up with us. Let's fix it. Okay. We are willing to engage with you in fixing this and and hire consultants that you can pay for. And we'll get together and we'll work this out

Unknown29:40

we'll try to see if we can work it out. Now, does that sound like like this awful thing? Hey, you fucked up. Can we try and fix it? I mean, that sounds pretty good. generous, considering how would you feel if someone had fucked up against you and hurt you? And, and being, you know, racist or fat phobic or whatever it is?

Speaker 130:13

Could you extend that generous offer? I would be inclined to be like, they can fuck off, you know. But as they're saying, let's fix this. And Mikey is saying, here's how we can fix this. And Mike has come out with his steps that I would like us to like and the community to take. And they're not outrageous things. They're really fucking basic things like, Hey, don't be racist. Hey, Toby, fat phobic. Hey, listen to us, you know. So I just want to point that out. Think about how you would react. Even if you didn't understand, okay? Someone who who has a marginalized identity that you don't have comes to you and says, Hey, I've been really hurt by something you did. And I'd love for us to see if we can work it out and kind of talk about it. Do you think that that's that's possible? Would you be like, I think there's a remarries. Did you Did any I don't want to listen. And not only that, you know, the last like, what, you know, one time thing, but this has been happening on the DL quietly. For years. I mean, I have heard shit about I've never mentioned it right? I mentioned it with those whisper networks. A friend of mine, who's in the industry said about an experience that they had when I was like, Ooh, that's pretty shit. And so many times where someone says, oh, well, that's not so great. And has has not done anything about it. I just keep wanting to go back to like, what would you do? What would you do? And of course, you know, they, they probably have normal reactions, which is you'd probably be defensive and, and be a bit sad and all that type of stuff. But you would want to work to do better, right? Yeah. So little wing, Linda from little winged potatoes. On the Instagrams. I mentioned, Linda before, as well is talks a talks about has written a post last year, actually, and I read it then called the illusion, illusion of a cancellation. So actually, Lindos, Linda, Linda, Jesus, there's so many li n people in it today, Linda, from little wind potatoes. Her blog is called fluffy kitten party. I know it's getting so confusing. The title of it is pay no attention to the mob behind the curtain on cancel culture. But so this is, but then this is a quote that I wanted to read. But the illusion of a cancellation because, quote, cancel culture offers us such a clear binary view of these situations, it's easy to zoom out and see all the cancellations is predictable, following the script similar to similar to one another. But when you look at individual cancellations in quotation marks, they're all remarkably different. So I want to talk about that a little bit more about you know, if we actually look at what's happening, and so this is the reason why people say if you believe in Kancil culture, then that's a problem. Or people saying, you know, Cancel Cancel culture, and people saying cancel, culture doesn't exist, can get kind of confusing, right. counterculture doesn't exist, because in the reality is, this is how people who say anti anti cancel culture, this is how they see a cancellation. A person is just going about their life, and they make a teeny tiny faux pas, or maybe they say, an off color joke that that didn't mean anything by it. But you know, they just said it. And next thing you know, a mob has come to their place of work and has has or is in their inbox and they lose their job and they their partner leaves them and they lose their kids. And they are left destitute with nothing. And then they die. And all they did was say well, all they did was say a little blue joke you know them doing anything so that's what that's what, how Cancel Cancel culture people view a cancellation, right? This extreme thing.

Speaker 135:10

The result is death. And and it's for some minor infraction, right? Like, you can't even say anything nowadays and people are going to counsel you. The reality is that those who hold power are doing fucked up things for years on end, they are perpetrating violence, they are being racist. They are being every type of as you can imagine, they are being pieces of shit. And then, eventually, after, after years of doing this stuff, someone will come up and say, hey, you know, that time that, you know, this person has got a history of being not so great. And they might lose someone follow up, they might get some unfollows on Instagram, they might get some people saying, hey, you need to try and fix this. And they might get some people saying awful things. People saying awful things isn't good, right? They might have the chance to engage in a accountability process. And so then they can they can apologize and move forward. And so if we look at the people who've been, quote, canceled, what has actually happened to them? Nothing much, really, in fact, a lot of people who've been, quote unquote, canceled, it's actually boosted their career. You know, it's helped them gain more followers, because now they're in the public eye. Have they? Have they had to stop doing what they're doing with their lives has? Who was the guy that makes the trans jokes? Kevin Hart? Yeah, I think it's Kevin Hart. Has he been? Has he been banned from being comedian? No, not only him. Netflix has even taken his show off off Netflix. That loser guy from House of Cards, Kevin Spacey, Kevin Spacey, he went away for a year or two. Now he's back making films. So just has, how has he, you know, been really canceled? Yes, he might have had a bit of a shadow ship time, because he's had to look inwards and be like, oh, yeah, Chile. I did commit lots of crimes. And that was fucked up. And now people don't like me. Not everyone, you know. Now. Some people don't like me. And that makes me feel sad. What about the people that he abused? How are they feeling? Are they able to continue to act? Oh, actually, they didn't have an acting career. Most of them because they were marginalized people. They were in they there was a power imbalance. So they're, you know, still trying to get on with their life. And there's this man who was, you know, presumably a multimillionaire, just continuing with his life. Yeah, okay. So I'll read this post from Elliott Gen SD, which is really interesting about Kancil culture. So, again, link in the profile for fragility defensiveness, right to comfort and fear of losing power, how the anti cancel culture movement or raises the labor and progress of black indigenous people of color, abolitionists and upholds white supremacy,

Speaker 139:03

the origins of quote Kancil culture, the origins, let's just presume that you're hearing we say, quote, Kancil culture because in quotation marks for the rest of the podcast, and I won't say it again. Okay. So the origins of what is now being over generalized as canceled culture is that it came from the black queer community, more specifically black abolitionist survivors, as a way to break the silence when those with more power and privilege evaded accountability for harm they have caused, being that it is extremely easy for those with more power and privilege to hide behind their social capital in order to evade accountability, a tactic that began to be known as call outs was created within these black queer communities to push back on those power dynamics and gather community support to bring what about accountability by bringing it into the public sphere. Being that a main competitor of white supremacy and patriarchy, our silence and dismissal around harm and interpersonal violence. This is then a legitimate tool to push back on that conditioning. This tactic then gained usage by other marginalized communities for the same purpose to call out harm caused by those with more power and privilege when the hope of bringing with the hope of bringing about accountability. Next transformative justice. The definition of transformative justice, as written in the book fumbling towards repair by Maryam Kaba and Shira Hassan as adapted from fi from generation five, transformative justice TJ seeks to provide people who experience violence with immediate safety and long term healing and reparations while holding people who commit violence accountable within and by their communities. transformative justice is centered around the following main goals one survivor safety, healing an agency to accountability and transformation of those who abuse or cause harm, three, community response and accountability for transformation of the community and social conditions that create and perpetuate violence, systems of oppression, exploitation, domination and state violence. transformative justice does not rely on the state, the criminal justice system are the legal system, accountability and consequences. accountability on the personal community and collective level looks like the ability to self reflect and acknowledge harm caused, it then looks like accepting the consequences of one's behavior and taking concrete actions to create repair. This can look like a lot of different things, but being that transformative justice is centered around the needs of the person or community that was harmed. That is who needs to drive the decision making process on what repair should look like. It is important to remember here that consequences being faced by someone who has caused harm is not punishment, some example of consequences, one financial reparations to losing a platform three, giving up a leadership role.

Speaker 142:29

Where we are now and why it needs to change. It is important to first note that TJ transformative justice will was created as an abolitionist tool by black abolitionist survivors, what happened and what we are what we are now seeing several things. One, a white influencer, who is evading accountability for harm they have caused named by named Clementine Morgan is building a brand by CO opting the language of TJ, turning it on its head and framing the seeking of accountability as quote, policing. I'm asking you to think how deeply problematic this is for a white person to be doing this. They are even going so far as to encourage people to not respond when someone tries to inform others of something having caused harm, which also erases the, quote, whisper networks that other that marginalized communities use to warn each other of danger. In my personal opinion, their content is largely responsible for the growing anti cancel culture movement, and it is causing harm to other people with power and privilege privilege are jumping on this bandwagon. And pushing back on call outs and labeling anything that looks like it may cause them to lose power as canceled culture, as well as demonizing marginalized people and communities seeking accountability as being abusive, bullying and harassment. None of this takes into consideration the power dynamics at play that brought about the call out in the first place. But more importantly, it is Davo on a massive scale. Davo is a defensive gaslighting tactic that people use, wherein they make themselves out to be the victim when they are actually the one who caused harm. It stands for one deny two attack three reverse victim offender. So deny attack reverse victim offender. This needs to change because we are never going to be able to dismantle white supremacy if we allow this to continue. This is a derailment. When we should be talking about racism, white supremacy ableism transphobia. The conversation is now about canceled culture. A lot of black folks will tell you canceled culture is not real. It has now become just another tactic to evade accountability. What we need to be focusing on In my opinion is building the skills to be accountable to create repair and to be able to accept the consequences when we cause harm when compared to to harm course, especially if it is severe, losing a social media platform is not actually that big of a deal, and why people need to be working on being able to give up their power in order to dismantle white supremacy anyways, we need to get back on track to centering black voices. And that includes deferring to black abolitionists when it comes to transformative justice. And we've got a quote here from Estelle, who says, it still at abolish underscore time is actually not possible to say you oppose cancel culture without canceling survivors. preventing abuse from being abuse from becoming public puts the burden of ending abuse solely on survivors abusers isolate and silenced survivors to help ensure that abuse continues without interruption Yeah, so there's another couple of a couple of other slides and so go and check that out really great post love it. No, I didn't I didn't know that Kancil culture came from black abolitionists so that's really interesting. And and we think about like, what what's the alternative here? No one you know silence and with with someone like that's what's happened his silence over the years and then it is just you know, escalated where it's caused more harm, more, more, more, more more harm. And now ending with Mikey as someone who holds these marginalized identities, ended entities is a woman who is who's stepping up a great cost to herself.

Speaker 147:03

Yeah. So anti diet fatty has got a couple of really good posts. The first one that I want to talk about is called is everyone canceling Vega now, accountability versus canceled culture? So I'm going to skip ahead a few slides here. And antedated it says when a powerful public figure in a community has harmed other people refused to even attempt a resolution and then demanded it all be kept secret. That's the other thing as Linda says, Can we keep the secret? What do you propose people do? What do you recommend people do to prevent other people from experiencing the same harm pattern of harm they have experienced? If you are concerned about the mental health impact this public discussion has had? I would ask, Did you consider the mental health impact for Mikey Lindley, the ASTER leadership and other who share similar stories? Did you think about the vast number of comments DMS and gaslighting that these folks have endured by sharing? Have you thought about the emotional and mental toll that they have had to shoulder alone for months before they decided to share publicly? Why isn't Mikey Lindley and as mental health just as deserving of your consideration and regard? Oh, slam dunk, slam dunk, and there's more slides here. And so as well, we've got here and guess what anti diet fatties name is Lauren. Why if we get another l name in this, then I'm given up. We're gonna have another l name. Okay, so, Lauren anti diet fatty has also shared excerpts from an article from Forbes. Some quotes from that cancel culture is relatively new term developed to insulate the powerful from being held accountable for hateful language. It is mere, a mere propaganda tool that has proliferated in our mainstream discourse. Kancil culture is either unfair or justified based on the recipient and the alleged alleged transgression. Actions have consequences and some infractions are indeed Council worthy. When it comes to issues of equity and inclusion, many advocates consider zero tolerance policies on as public policies. zero tolerance policy is an important part of rooting out racism, bias and broader discrimination. Freedom of speech or freedom to act doesn't imply freedom from consequences insist anti racism educator and consultant Denise branch consequence culture is needed to build safer, more inclusive, equitable and accountable workplaces. Perhaps the truth is that black and brown people have historically been granted very little if any margin of error, much less second, third and fourth chapter chances and then in the middle of the country's countries racial reckoning high profile mostly white celebrities, executives and other leaders are now being treated more like everyone else. Maybe it's yet another example of saying when those with privilege privilege are faced with equality to them, it often feels like oppression. Let me read that last line again. I loved it. When those with privilege are faced with equality to them, it often feels like oppression. Okay. So I want to as well share something from Nick McDermid. That is her handle on on Instagram. He says therapists who cry Kancil culture are modeling to their clients an unwillingness to believe survivors to prioritize marginalized experiences, and are blatantly giving permission for abuse and coercion to continue. So saying this, so Mikey has collected all of the white fuckery that she has experienced after coming out here. And I want to I'm going to talk about that in a second. But before I do, I want to share another post from Lauren anti diet fatty and it's actually I'm going to share another post a post from Project he'll project he'll has said in a post it's quite short here. If you are not fat you should not be or believe you are the sole authority on issues affecting predominantly fat people act as a gatekeeper to financial and professional opportunities to speak on fat issues. ignore your privilege and say yes to opportunities which elevate you as the authority on fat issues. I love that from Project he'll. And I'm going to read one more from anti diet fatty which I liked, which was

Speaker 151:59

fat folks know a thing or two about enduring stress under a continuous stream and then read it again. Fat folks know a thing or two about enduring under a continuous stream of stress. I would imagine receiving volumes of tags, comments, emails and tweets would be difficult under the best of circumstances. The mental strain that brings is a difficult experience. Every fat creator I know especially fat, brown, black indigenous people of color creators can relate the barrage of trolls tweets, tags, IRL encounters and everyday vitriol is an emotional and mental burden that we carry around every day. We don't have the privilege to leave, opt out or escape. We can't declare ourselves quote, fixed and move on to other pursuits. The world won't let us our fat bodies require that we gather up every shred of Audacity that we possess. And can you continue to take up space in a world that is Turman to keep us small? Only in tiny pockets of people can we steal a breath and exhale in relief? Because for a moment we know that we are safe. Do I wish that experience on anyone else? Absolutely not. People living in a small in small body sometimes get bombarded with criticism because of something they said. Fat people constantly get the body with animosity for simply living. Yes. Slam Dunk. Yes. And it's like Don't be mean to me because of my shitty behavior. That's not fair. It's like um, maybe just don't be sure. Okay, so something that Mikey has pointed out is that this is tiring stuff you owe that there are a few people in the in the industry, the fat, the haze the intuitive eating whatever anti diet industry who are just being really shit. And in in Mikey's most recent post, it's called a week into the pocalypse she's naming names and she's been Mike has been no names already. And it's given me the courage as well to name names and I have in the put on the podcast recently. In the last six months, do you remember Do you remember? I said, listen up here everybody. I want you to be careful about where where you know who you're investing in, like who's whose books you're buying and stuff. Just keep your Spidey eyes spidey senses whatever opened and here's a little clue. Go and check out your favorite thin anti diet people and go and see who they're following for some clues about who you might want to keep an eyeball on. And yeah, I was talking about our Caroline Duna. And it's not just who she is following but the absolute awful shit that she has been sharing in the last year. Now Chiron Jr. and I have had a kind of want to say relationship like we know of each other. I've been on our podcast a couple of times. This is hard, right? Because I'm like, Just don't say anything. My thing is, I just don't say anything. Anyway, so we've known each other we've been connected. And I started noticing some of the things that Caroline was sharing and I was like, hang on a minute. It's not just a bad take. I so she says she's having an off day. Well, I definitely by she's having another off day. And then it was like wow, what the fuck is this shit. So this is what this is what Mikey has said in that about Article I just mentioned

Speaker 156:27

it's a running theme among Ling lindows supporters who have been mostly spouse in public but surely congregate in large numbers in private, who have been horrible at remembering Linda's pronouns as well as not dead naming them to depict a hypothetical image of a broken Lindo, a Linda who is being counseled for refusing to link relinquish their life's work over to her a bunch of ungrateful fat you servers. Despite how Lindos fund us for ghostwriters challenges this this questionable challenges this persecuted juniors fantasy, or how they engage with young collaborators of color and extremely questionable ways to put this lightly or how their treaty on social justice dogma from last year published to the as the lesser in support of Maria paradas paints the picture of Lindo, who is more calculated than maligned a weird anti diet anti culture anti cancer culture brigade, comprised of people like Clementine Morgan and Caroline doona has emerged to defend lindo however, as others have already done a good job of unpacking that ridiculous ridiculousness I will not okay so links to Caroline Luna and what she said about this whole situation and what she said it's fucking horrible. Let me read it out to you. I'm sure you want to know what she said. Someone tag Caroline Jr. and said as the largest and most popular Health at Every Size writer, influencer, your silence is deafening. And Karen, you know, responded, what are you even talking about? Have I not been crystal clear that I do not agree with or participate in online mob campaigns? Have I not been crystal clear that I don't even identify as liberal anymore because of this kind of coercive culty fervor? Have I not criticized throwing around the word harm so much that it loses meaning? The people demanding that I weigh in have also been calling me quote, harmful, dangerous, anti Vaxxer, racist, anti semitic conspiracy theory conspiracy theorists for over six months. Now. Now you want me to speak up and do the same thing for someone else? Or you guys hi, funniest part. I don't even condone Lindos actions, but I despise this coercive mob shit even more. At this point. I'm not even close to being a being a part of the haze community. And I have unfollowed every single person who I've seen engaging as mob justice, I stand by every single thing in the Fuckit diet. But but in sharing my story, healing from an eating disorder, I never signed up to be part of this cult. I'm done. Mikey's commentary is this whole thing is a dumpster fire or Goldmine if you're like me, and you like to make fun of people like this, but I wanted to point folks attention to the part where the fuck diet says The funniest part is I don't even condone Lindos actions, but I despise this coercive mob shit even more. I think this is an important statement. Duna doesn't condone lindows actions, but is so against accountability, and so committed to perpetrating historical inequity, as well as her anti cancel culture grift that she's still against a public calling that was only necessitated by lindows long string of failures over over a decade's long career to take any of the private feedback that numerous fat People have given them about their conduct or in short, whites are gonna white. Yes, exactly. Whites are going to white. So

Unknown01:00:16

so so my my so so let's talk about this. So I got a DM from Caroline a couple of weeks

Speaker 101:00:25

ago. And I was like okay, what is this? So Caroline so so one month ago I saw a post on Caroline's Facebook page, the post was a picture of the blonde girl from euphoria screaming. And it says I have never ever been happier. And clearly she's sad and crying and so she is being sarcastic. And so the text created by Caroline says, telling my friends how much I love being an author in the age of canceled culture and censorship. So basically saying it's really hard to be an author when you're going to get cancelled. So I thought, Oh, this isn't good. Because really, she's a thin white woman. Who's this summer shit. I want to tell you, but I'm not gonna tell you. She's got privilege. Okay, she has got fucking privilege coming out of her eyeballs. Okay, so she's a thin white woman saying, Oh my God. I'm being censored. Who is sense who is who is censoring her? Is because people tell her Hey, when you've been when she's been a decade, people say hey, can you not be a dickhead? And so that is for her is terrible censorship. Anyway. And so Marin Wan, God lover, Marin, one incredible fan activist, has said a beautiful comment. Here's a saying that has helped in response to the post. Here's saying that has helped me put these issues in perspective. Why do people care more about being called racist than about ending racism? being asked to refrain from creating hateful and oppressive content, or being held accountable when we do is not oppression. Imagine being an author who faces racism, homophobia, ableism, sexism, classism, classism, or, or some combination of these oppressions. And beautiful, right? Yeah, doesn't really, I think that really explains it. And someone said to Marilyn, oh, I wouldn't be following this person because she's a she's anti Vax and something blah, blah, blah. And then and someone else said, also, she said, let me find it. I've got a I'm looking at these posts. Been, by the way, this post is still up. So if you want to go to the fucker diet page, and you can go and have a look, government screaming picture of a white one.

Speaker 101:03:20

So so let me let me see tell you what Caroline's responses. American. Well, I absolutely loved your book fatso. And 10 years ago, it was a catalyst for my own Hayes journey of healing, and my own writing about my relationship with food and weight. Her saying that? Why the fuck? Have you not been centering Maryland's work then? Why the fuck has she not been on your podcast? If she is the catalyst for your journey? Why are you not sharing in the profits from your two enormous books? What the fuck? This is the first time Marilyn has been getting any any flowers for this? Would the catalyst and she gets a shitty fucking Facebook comment? Anyway, let me continue it just mad about it. I'm mad. So, okay, so 10 years ago, it was a capitalist blah, blah, blah. I even mentioned in your book. I'm even mentioned your book in my new book that came out. Sorry, you think the worst of me now. To me. This is actually a great example of how cancer culture and accountability culture works. Assuming the worst without actually knowing but getting swept up in the mob rhetoric and piling on any way. Twisting things and turning them into capital haitch harm, blah, blah, blah. Other bullshit. Marilyn said a lovely beautiful comment, didn't she? So other people said oh hey Marilyn.

Unknown01:04:51

She's done other fucking shitty things too. And someone said She made a so someone said, Oh, she made a joke of expensive fat people. And I was just like reading all this stuff like,

Speaker 101:05:11

what's going on? So I said to someone's comment, what was the joke? That's it. Didn't say anything else. That's it. And so this was a month ago, so a few days ago, or last week or whatever it was, I got a message from Caroline Duna since an iPhone followed her maybe a month a month ago when I saw all this shit. And so she says, Hey, Vinnie saw on Facebook you asking what my quote terrible April Fool's joke was, I just all I said was, What's the joke, which was turning was turning, which is about turning into a fitness account. With April April falls. In the first line in the caption, this was toasted into Caroline won't apologize, which is way violence with no context. And people furious with me thinking I did something racist. curious what your thoughts are on things like this because I noticed you unfollowed me which prompted me to unfollow you. Which is I just thought what? Caroline dooner If you followed her is all about if you don't like me, unfollow me, I don't care. I don't care. I unfollow her. And then she's up in my inbox saying, Why did you unfollow me? What? So I responded, hey, Caroline. It was a post that made that you made with anti semitism, anti mass mandates, vaccines victim blaming, sexual assault survivors, etc. Karolina kept all of these posts their stories, go and check her stories, stay safe stories, you will see them don't don't take my word for it. Don't take my word for and your jaw is probably going to hit the floor. Talk about Nazis talking about all sorts of shit. Like I was like white. So that's when I unfollowed anyway, okay. Also seeing you follow a lot of right wing racist pseudoscience accounts. We all fuck up. It's part of what being human is. But doubling down when we cause harm means you're not safe for me to follow. Being a thin white woman in a fat positive space and you die it means the default should be to listen to those with more marginalized identities and learn from them. Always. It doesn't mean I think that you're a bad person, or politics just no longer align. And she responded saying yes, we def don't agree. Best of luck. Then she's made a post. Then she blocked me. So I logged into my other account to check out what she what she was saying on the thing. Bearing in mind. I've never spoken about this, okay. I've never I just said he, I just said to you, I said hey, listen, I didn't name names. I just said go and check to see who people are following. Okay. Just just to be aware, you know. So, Caroline, her her story then that day, fun fact. Some of the people who have turned on me slash engaging in cancellation bullshit against me in the past two years, were people I'd had on my podcast. That's me. And so I deleted their episodes. And I might delete some more now that I look through. And she went on saying loads of other stuff that I was just like, and I shared it with some friends and they were like, what Duff is going on here. Yeah, anyway, so this thing you know about the April Fool's joke, someone had captured the screenshot of her. Someone had sent in a, you know, this is this is how she's been called out. This is the mob that she talks about. Someone has said, it's a very sensitive topic. Why don't you just just apologize it would be not much nicer if what you said offended anyone just apologized and do better next time? I think it was a really bad joke. I found your book so helpful. I love your account. But that April Fool's post left a really bad taste in my mouth. You are not like me with 100 followers. You're a public figure who has written a book on the very sensitive topic topic again, just apologize and then move on and do better. And then Caroline said, apologize for what exactly were three question marks. And now she's saying in it. Like, there's also a group demanding a public apology from my April Fool's post, where I said I was turning into a healthy recipe account for the quote, harm I caused and the trust I broke and I just fucking refuse. And that's the thing is there were a few refusal to say a marginalized community that you are a spokesperson of now will give you that job, you took it. And you say I'm not in the haze, I'm not in haze, you fucking are because your book is healthy.

Speaker 101:10:10

And you're benefiting from concepts that people created, while not not lifting them up or doing anything. And in fact, when you heard that people you just like, for what like, why the fuck would I apologize, go fuck yourself and blocked them. And you know, blocked me and, you know, my message to her was like, Listen, I don't agree with you being racist, and being anti semitic. I don't think you're a bad person, our politics don't align, and she blocked me, you know, and then putting post up like, Oh, I'm going to delete people and blah, blah, blah. And someone had said, messaged her saying isn't deleting someone from your past podcast doing the same canceling that you're against? And she says, Guys, deleting someone from your podcast feed after they publicly attacked and slandered you is not the same as publicly going after someone. So here's the thing I'm thinking who, who was one of this big campaign of of canceling Caroline Duna. Like I don't see it. The only thing is there has been a very smaller account a very, very small account with let's see how many followers I have. I'll tell you in a second, but what I'm looking at, who made a very indirect post, just just like a fat whisper network thing being like, Hey, guys. I don't like saying that word, guys. But so a small account with 3000 followers saying, hey, and by the way, I believe in vaccination, and this account is spreading, anti Vax, anti mandate messages, just a heads up a 3000 follower account saying something like that, then recently, and then she then she's she's saying all that type of stuff. Then recently. Joshua, what's his name? Dr. Dr. Joshua, whatever his name is. Joshua. Woolridge. Someone said, said to him, Oh, hey, what do you think about her talking about anti mask stuff? And he says, It's not science based. And it's in it's dangerous. And so she's in that she's not talking about that when she talks about this mob that's trying to get her. So I was curious. I was curious to see how much this dam there how much damage this mob of people unfollowing her has actually done. And so let's do this with so I on socialblade.com Social Blade will tell you things like how many followers people have, how many followers they've lost, what grade their content is, how many likes they get all that type of stuff kind of gives you the behind the scenes information. You don't have to pay for it to get basic stuff, but you have to sign up. Anyway. Okay, so if we look at Linda Bacon, Linda Bacon, in the last 30 days has lost 1320 followers. And so, at the beginning of the 30 days, she had I'm sorry, they had an eye. I'm very cognizant of me. misgendering and I probably have done it, done it in the podcast already. And I just want to point out those absolutely not okay. And, of course, me being non binary. It's something that I should absolutely do better at so yeah, so just pointing out Lindos pronouns are they them, and if I have misgendered them, then that's not okay. Okay, so they started with 21,870 followers. So it is ago they lost 1560 So what percentage so that is 7.13% After this alleged huge cancellation, awful, their career is over. has lost has maintained 93% of their followers 93% of their followers and so this week, presumably would be the biggest kind of hit to the followers because people are sharing and then in a couple of weeks time it's going to die down. So let's look at Caroline dooner Let's go a little little it but boots go to the top. Let's have a look. Let's look at diet. Okay, so in the last 30 days, and by the way after Caroline shared like fuck all you I don't give a shit about accountability thing. She then the next day rejoiced in being unfollowed by everyone. Okay, so Caroline Duna

Speaker 101:15:03

to let's just make it easy and just say we'll just use the, we'll just use the followers that she has now. So it's not it's actually the percentage is going to be skewed a little bit because she's lost followers. And so she's got 20 236,000 followers but the bottom 236,000 Let's just do those 236 photo and how she lost in the last 30 days she has lost 3900 Okay 3900 So this huge mass and following cancellations she's experiencing she's lost a whopping 1.6% of her following 1.6% When she had such a huge unfollowing the other day the huge unfollowing she had the other day was 190 people. So yeah. Wow, she's really being cancelled by who? Or what? So do you see how these people in power with these privileges are saying you know, counterculture is bad because they're protecting themselves. And the fit the crux behind it. The big crux a lot of people are saying is that people die if they're canceled people die by suicide. So longtime listeners of the show know that I was on a BBC documentary, watched by that 2.5 million people probably a lot more by now because it's been out on on the iPlayer. So millions of people have watched me on the show. After the response that I that I got, I was trolled hardcore. I was trolled. And I was really, really bitterly disappointed at one my portrayal in the show when to the dashed hopes of what good things could come from me being on the show. Because of that, I became suicidal. Haha, proof, canceled culture kills people. Well, I wasn't cancelled. I was trolled. I was trolled by people who hated me and wanted me to die. I didn't fuck up. I didn't have the opportunity to make amends. Because there wasn't, it was just my existence as a fat person. That made them mad as a fat person who didn't hate themselves that made them mad. And so it's not like so they came. And it's like the game of the show came out and people were like, oh, Vinnie, you already fucked up, pull out one. And I could go and be like, Hey, everyone, listen, I really fucked up. And here's how I'm going to make amends. And here's how I'm committed to making amends. I couldn't do that, because I didn't fuck up. I just existed. And so, you know, I got messages, I just got messages from people saying, you know, I should be dead and things like that. So that's trolling. That's bullying. And that is not what accountability is. That is not the process that's being has been encouraged to engage in. They have the opportunity to say, Hey, everyone, I fucked up. And saying, like, oh, we shouldn't be doing that. It's like, imagine if, for example, you lived in a family. And there was one awful person in the family. There say it's the dad, you know, because you know what, in my family, my dad was very close, it was not great. And so imagine if I was like, or you were like, Hey, that person is awful. And instead of hearing you, your family said, hey, hey, don't say that about your father. It'll hurt his feelings. If you say that he is a decade. And so in that moment, you're being taught that abusers feelings are more important than yours. And what what cost does that have for your mental health? You know, I've not seen anyone, anyone anywhere saying, hey, a piece of shit, you need to die. We hate you. And I'm not saying that hasn't received messages like that. Of course, there's people who were who were unkind and that's not appropriate. There's people who are trolls. And that is not appropriate. What is happening is people are saying, Hey, we should support a young, Fat Black Woman by giving donations to them and sharing their content. And some people saying Why don't you join in the accountability process? Why don't you want to engage and not being thrown out of the community, they're invited to repair the harm that they've caused? And again, I want you to think about what you would do in the same situation. Yeah, you'd probably be sad. And we you know, if you've got a message saying, You fucked up, you'd be like, awful, you know, you probably call your friends and whatever and be like, Oh, my God, I feel terrible. I feel like a terrible person. I fucked up and, and then, you know, you'd be like, Oh, this is what they want me to do. Okay, I'll do it. I'll fix it. You know?

Speaker 101:20:01

And if you're worried about being canceled, why do you cause repeated harm? Are people constantly coming to you saying, hey, you've hurt me? And then you're saying no fingers in your ears, I don't give a shit. Oh, you don't do that? Well, then you, you're probably gonna be fine. And you might be like, Well, I don't want to cause harm this son. That's a That's why supremacy culture is perfectionism, you're going to cause harm. If you're a human being, I'm going to cause harm. I'm going to fuck up. You know, even in this podcast, I've probably fucked up. You know, before mentioned I've maybe I've misgendered i when that's not okay. So what am I, you know, what are you going to do just not be alive? Because you might accidentally fuck up. And then what will how you will react? And it's not like fat people. And black people are trolling the streets, and other people with marginalized identities, you know, outs, you know, with a hairpin temper and someone says, Hello, how's your day to day? And then, you know, a fat person is like, how do you, you had said, that day you speak to me like that you're canceled, I'm going to ruin your career and then going to, you know, Instagram or, like, get this motherfucker. They asked me how my day was, how dare they speak to me? You know, and poor, unsuspecting, thin, white people are like, oh, all I said was Hello, how's your day, and now I'm dead, because of these angry fat people paroling trolling the streets being awful. And if that's what you think, is gonna happen, then that means you need to examine what's going on, because that's a manifestation of racism and fatphobia. And, you know, whatever it is, you know, that's going on with whatever marginalized group that you think, are so unreasonable, so angry. I mean, it's just such a boring old trope. You know, it's just such a boring old trope. Because the reality of all of this is, the amount of harm that someone has to cause before someone who has a shit ton less power, before they speak up. Is is huge, and the risk associated is huge. I'm here now thinking, Well, that's it, I fucked up because I've spoken about Carolyn Duna. I fucked up. Now. She's gonna come after me. And I'm not saying anything like, Oh, hey, everybody, you need to go and do this. I mean, I'm just saying like, this is what's happened. Maybe she isn't the fat positive guru that everyone positions her as maybe some of her views are harmful to people with marginalized identities. Maybe she should be using her power for good. You know. And again, I want to distinguish between saying, hey, let's engage in an accountability process. And the power, the privilege that's at play, because sometimes, some people, that's all they've got is to, is to say, Can we try and engage in accountability process? And most the time, those with privilege are just like, Oh, my God, you're hurting my feelings. I can't believe that. You're asking me that Kancil culture. And then you have people who are just felons who are trolls? Who send messages saying you're a piece of shit and you need to die. That's not that's being trolled. You know, when we talk about being trolled all the time, and if you're if you someone on the internet, and, you know, look, I've spoken about it on the show many times how the things that I've had to do to protect my mental health from the trolls out there, and I get that just from existing as a fat person, whereas it sounds like someone like Caroline dooner has had just people being like, you're amazing. Oh my god, you're great. And then she started being shitty. And now fat people are like, Oh, hey, maybe that's not great take and she's like, Oh, my God, council culture. And it just smacks of you know, white thinness doesn't it doesn't work. I'm sure I've not mentioned so many things here that I should have mentioned and so many points that I want to make, but we're at fucking 90 minutes now. I knew this was gonna be a big one. And it's way past the time that I normally work. Oh my goodness. So anyway, go and donate to Mikey go donate to Lindley go and join and go and join Nafa go and read some books and on my on my post. I've got a reading list of different books too. So go to my Instagram for that and

Speaker 101:24:59

if you're still going views listen just drop me a DM and we're like yeah you're actually you know I'm still not sure how how this is set in or whatever and I'm not just I'm just whatever you use just just reach out and say hey, I'm confused like what why is this not canceled culture? What is canceled culture what's going on? And of course I'm not an expert in this you know, I'm fumbling along like, like everyone else. Anyway, my voice is going so I'm going to stop talking it's almost like I want to keep talking because I don't want to forget something and then afterwards be like, Do you know what that's fucking that's just that's white supremacy culture where the be trying to be perfect. Okay, so I'm gonna stop right now. Links for everything in the show notes again, it is facebook.com forward slash a 119. Do I sound like a radio host or what? And I will see you all you first families in the next episode. Stay fears fatty and in a while. Alligator Good boy. Thanks for listening to the episode. And if you feel ready to get serious about this work and want to know when the doors open to fears fattier Academy which is my signature program, where I teach all about how to overcome your fat phobic beliefs and learn to love your fat body, then go to first fatty.com forward slash waitlist again, that is phase fatty.com. Forward slash waitlist to get your name on the waitlist. For when first Matty Academy my signature program opens

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