Download Otter for your meeting notes

Episode 8: Building Unshakable Confidence [Mariana] | Otter.ai

Episode 8: Building Unshakable Confidence [Mariana]

Mariana Peña38min

Danbee Shin

00:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to our podcast, We Should Talk About This, with me, Danbee Shin and my co host Mariana Pena. I am a mentor for web designers. And I also help other web designers with my course, so that they can get clients consistently and build a profitable and sustainable business.

Mariana Peña

00:21

Hi, everyone. My name is Mariana Pena. I'm an instructional designer, for experts, consultants and coaches who want to create change in the world, through their industries, courses curriculums that you can confidently sell and teach. I am excited about today and this episode, and I'm also a little bit like, Oh, this is the end of this year. Yeah.

Danbee Shin

00:47

Bittersweet? Yes, we were just looking at what we wanted to discuss in this conversation. Because, as always, this episode is a conversation and we were looking at the strategies that we can use to decolonize our businesses, and we're looking at all the conversations we've had so far, covering all the different strategies, and we've talked about a lot.

Mariana Peña

01:13

Oh, yes, we have covered quite a few. I would like to think that if you are here, whether because you completed the journey with us, or maybe this is the first time that you landed on this podcast, you are very welcome to be here, we want to take you on, I would say an integration of everything moment, sometimes when we hear an episode here and there, we don't really see how this all connects. So we want to share that with you. Today's is all about exploring and discovering the realm of possibilities that decolonizing your business can bring to you. We have to start from the beginning. So what do we mean by decolonizing? Your business, I know that this kind of words that can feel very academic, very rigid, call them removed from our daily lives. And if you go online, and you try to find the definition on your own, which I always recommend, you will find different approaches when we say decolonize, your business here is having the opportunity or creating the opportunity for yourself to run an online business that feels free from oppressive institution from oppressive practices in your industry, and online business that feels free from any kind of manifestation of colonial mindset. Every single episode touches on one of the approaches, one of the angles that we have explored in our businesses that we have talked to other people about. So these may feel like strategies. This may feel like topics for discussion or reflection. Or these may feel like oh, God, there are some steps here that I can follow. But it is never a prescriptive situation. It is always from the point of curiosity and inquiry and just enjoying the journey.

Danbee Shin

03:27

There's always like an invitation. It's like, maybe this will be interesting for you. They said it'd be patient. Yeah. Because these are conversations that you and I have off camera without the recorder going on. We're like, oh, we should discuss this. We should talk about why we have this podcast in the first place. And I really do want this experience to feel like, Oh, hey, is this also interesting to you, like you should come and talk about this with us?

Mariana Peña

03:58

This is exactly what that is. And we have found that when we talk with someone else that is just there to mirror things back to you doesn't even have to give you the answers. That process is ultimately guiding you to rediscover your true self and the product of rediscovering yourself or coming back to yourself is just Unshakable Confidence. And if you're running your online business, you need unshakable confidence to make all the decisions that you want to make to take all the steps that you want to take and to not fall prey off all the colonial practices that are running wild. In the online world

Danbee Shin

04:44

when you are not feeling confident about what you want to do what you think what you want to say what you want to put out into the world. And I'm not saying you have to figure that out on your own right. You work with your community to figure out what you think it doesn't leave room for or other people to come in and be like, Oh, give me money. And I'll tell you what to do in your business. Because let's be honest, a lot of us would find that really comforting. I think, especially the high achievers who've always relied on there being right answers, there being a rubric, there being an answer sheet to refer to you. I want that in my business. Sometimes I started my business because I didn't want to follow other people's rules. But sometimes I'm just like, give me the answers, and I will

Mariana Peña

05:29

certainly be sexy, and certainty cells. And the world is not certain the world is most definitely not certain. And our own existence is not certain. For many reasons. We are in constant evolution, let's go through this approaches or strategies that we implement on our business that we could share an invite all of our friends that are listening right now. And I want to start with Global Inclusion.

Danbee Shin

06:04

Love it, this is my work. So when you run a globally inclusive business, it means that your customers, your clients, people interact with you feel like they can succeed with you. Regardless of where they're from work, regardless of where they are. Sometimes people point out that I say, oh, where you're from, and where you are, don't have to be the same things. Because I phrase that was Yeah, absolutely. That is the story of my life. I'm almost never where I'm from. Physically, there are so many experiences around the world of immigrants, of travelers, of people who just move through the world, because we now live in a time where it is possible to find opportunities around the world. Sometimes you end up in places, regardless of what you want. So some people are displaced, for reasons they would not want to be true. There are so many different experiences out there. And we want to run an online business that caters to those people, we want to run an online business where you're not just assuming that some person it like everyone you're talking to is in a very specific part of the world, I want to focus on what is possible, because this episode is all about the possibilities. Instead of focusing on what can go wrong, I want to focus on what that can look like. I think it's so powerful to feel like someone really sees you, it's become a cliche at this point. But when someone you know little things like when I'm watching a replay because something happened at a time where I was asleep or not at work, and someone's if you're catching the replay, here's how you can participate that little thing, I remember that. And when someone runs, live calls, and they have different times like they do regular calls, and they might alternate between different times in the day so that people in different parts of the world can participate. I remember that about you. And as someone who is now in Europe, but who has not been in North America, which I feel like is the center of the online business quite often, it makes me feel like oh, you've designed a program, you've designed the product you've designed and experience a community where I can be just as valuable a participant, even though like I'm not where you are, even though I'm not where most of your people are, sadly,

Mariana Peña

08:30

but truly, the bar is so low, the bar is so low, if we turn that into a positive thing, it doesn't really take up a lot of investment. In terms of financial investment, it just takes a minute or two of care, and thought, like you said, if you're recording something, take 10 seconds to acknowledge the fact that around the world, people sleep at different times, because time zones. And like I said it's sad because that's it should be. It shouldn't be a thing,

Danbee Shin

09:06

but it is what it is. And it makes such a big difference. It makes it

Mariana Peña

09:11

out to the friends. I also remember that I absolutely remember if somebody said they are releasing something for the end of the year. If they open instead of saying Merry Christmas, if instead of saying that they say to everyone in North globe, Happy Winter, I'm like, Oh, you remember that there are two parts of the globe. That's amazing. And the opportunities there are immense if we're talking about possibilities for your business, when you get rid of the colonial idea of only these empires are the important ones and only the people within these empires and they are important once you tap into possibility. There is literally a world of people are waiting to connect with you. That is so exciting. It is so exciting

Danbee Shin

10:04

to explore, they want to learn from you,

Mariana Peña

10:06

they want to learn from you, they want to find a place where they are recognized, acknowledged, simple as that, which leads me to anti oppressive, learning anti oppressive learning products, anti oppressive digital products. Again, in the spirit of exploring how to detach yourself from colonial narratives and practices, we can simply start by thinking that the way you approach something is not the way that everybody else approaches something now, because you think that I'm going to put an example that is a very common example in my world, because I help people create curriculum for their programs. And something that comes up every single time is the host of the program, whether that is a group coaching program, a mastermind, a membership, whatever, you name it, the host of the program, typically says something like nobody watches, curriculum, like I don't do it, I just want to show up for the call and ask my question. And I sit with that, and I have to check myself first. Because we are all in different parts of the journey. But what I come back with is, it is a very good thing that you are aware of how you approach knowledge, because that awareness is going to help you but it is also very important to remember that not everybody else operates in the same way, colonialism has made us think that we are all cut from the same fabric. And if not, we should just try to be exactly the same as everybody else. When in reality, we are unique individuals. And when it comes to anti oppressive learning, I would love for all of us to start from that point of view, oh, I really enjoy listening to the lessons, instead of writing something about the lesson, that doesn't mean that everybody else is going to do that. So if we are going to create something that is inclusive for people, and that is changing the world, not just bringing money to your pockets, then we need to work on that.

Danbee Shin

12:17

And what's so cool about acknowledging or understanding that there are so many ways to learn and as an educator to provide those different options is you're going to be able to have so many different kinds of people going through your program, learning from you surely what you want to do besides or money is to share what I feel like people don't just do this for shits and giggles, like people have things to share. That's why they're investing and also coming to you to make their programs better because they care about this. Yes. And the possibilities that it opens up for bringing more people into your life, people who might even you know, feel so strongly about it that they go out and evangelize

Mariana Peña

13:03

your will become ambassadors, they will become ambassadors to your brand, thinking this way that Oh, not everybody does things like me, it will make you a better educator, it will make you a better business owner. And it will also make you a better facilitator for your knowledge, which is going to translate into increased revenue. Because now you will see the possibilities. Now I I know how to develop this specific topic that is going to learn even better, because now you see outside of your own bubble outside of your own box. Absolutely. It's an instant connection to recognize that we all have different needs. And we all approach things in a different way.

Danbee Shin

13:51

Yeah, this reminds me of something we sat in a previous conversation where you said in the online space, we have to be explicit about a lot of these things. And some of these things might feel like yeah, of course everyone knows people learn differently. But now like it means it really means something when someone is willing to state that in such explicit terms,

Mariana Peña

14:15

the next approach or strategy, acknowledging privilege and intersectionality within yourself, your business, your clients, your even your industry, there are industries who are way more privileged that than others just by nature. What could you share with us then be when it comes to the possibilities that come from acknowledging that privilege and intersectionality are intertwined in running your online business?

Danbee Shin

14:43

I can speak from my own experience. I've been able to have so many more conversations with more people because I started maybe a year or so ago, whenever I do public speaking, public talks, one of the first slides As I show is a list of different identities that I have. And I share things like I'm from South Korea, I am East Asian, I have light colored skin. I'm Sis, I'm heterosexual, I have a technical and engineering background, I went to a good university, I have a white male partner like all of these, like I speak English, I speak English, these things are part of who I am. And I always acknowledge that whatever I'm about to share, usually, it's how to grow your web design business, right how to build a web design business, that brings you enough money, so you don't have to worry about money anymore. So that you can get clients consistently all these very practical things. But the practical things I'm about to talk about my ability to take action on those things, is directly affected by my intersectionality. And some of those identities that I mentioned, are privileged identities. It's easier for me to learn from most educators online because of my English. And it's easier for me to participate, because I'm not worried about people judging me, just based on how I speak, which is I know a concern for a lot of people and the reality for me, people. Yeah, which I still struggle with. These are the things that you don't know what other people's experiences are either, right? I know you so well. And when we have a conversation about how English was one of those things for you, that's like, well, what but of course, I can totally see how that would affect your your ability to participate in a space how you are seen or pushed to the margins within certain communities. And I always invite people to take a moment to think about your identities and think about what gives you privilege and what makes you less visible in your business. And that alone, nevermind with the rest of the rest of my talk. That alone starts so many conversations. And I've gotten to connect with so many people who share the same values. running an online business is impossible. If you don't have community, you need the support, yes, but you also need business, like you need to connect with people, you need to be introduced the right kind of people. And I'm not saying that the only value of my connections is the business that brings me but it's what gives me energy. It's what keeps my business going.

Mariana Peña

17:34

And two things can be true and happen at the same time. Like it, it keeps your business running, but it also helps you in your own growth path, I have noticed that the conversation that I have online, with friends and peers who are aligned in values with me, it's just so the impact that it has on me as a person, those conversations is massive, more, more than I could ever imagine. I never thought that would be the case. And of course having these connections and communities online. Of course, it helps me bring clients and run my business. But it also helps me have conversations at home. Like in my household we have, we live in two cultures, Mexican culture and Dutch culture. My My husband is that we are raising two biracial boys. And so many of the conversations that I've had with friends online and peers on I work on the same decolonial path. And they are trying to find how to run a business who doesn't feel oppressive to their clients have informed how I explained my existence in the world to my partner who is white, European, and I love him, but he's at the top of the privilege pyramid. So without me having all of these input from my online community. With these conversations, I would not have the resources or the language, to be able to better connect at home. And to also give my kids our view of the world that is not centered in my Mexican identity, but it's also not centered in my husband's Dutch identity. We're just trying to present like this. Our ways people exist in the world. And that would not be possible. If I was not on this path online with my peers. I have

Danbee Shin

19:43

very similar experience. I do feel like these conversations give me the language to have conversations offline like at home with my white husband with my friends, my friends, because I had the privilege of Going to an international school. My friends are from all over. And yet for most of our lives, we didn't have these conversations about privilege about race about how we were racialized. How are our experiences at the exact same school? We're so different, like we always say, like, our businesses are not like this separate entity that exists independent of our lives. There are these flows. And honestly, I know people say that running your own business is one, like the single most effective, like personal development tool there is. And I honestly, especially in this context, it's definitely been the case. I'm

Mariana Peña

20:42

not saying that is always fun. I'm not saying it's always always so smooth, like the transition is so smooth from online to offline. And then these conversations at home are like, so enjoyable. Sometimes they are not. But they are so rewarding. It's a cycle, right? And in the beginning, we said decolonizing, your business is about coming back to yourself, and finding what elements are really yours believes values or philosophies that are going to come together to give you Unshakable Confidence. And that Unshakable Confidence, it's not only for your business, it's in you as a person. So, of course, in every single sphere, that you interact in your life, that confidence is going to be there. So I really don't see like a bigger reward

Danbee Shin

21:37

than that. Yeah, the confidence in who you are, we are still

Mariana Peña

21:42

exploring this angles and these strategies to decolonize your business. So far, we have touched on Global Inclusion, anti oppressive learning, acknowledging privilege and intersects intersectionality. And we have also been like, weaving, the the importance of being very aware and able to identify colonial practices. But with that also comes Neo colonial practices. And I feel like these ones in particular are so sneaky. Yeah, they go under the radar.

Danbee Shin

22:20

Because it's not about eliminating an entire people. It's not about Yeah, it's not it. I feel like there's a facade of oh, we're doing this, like out of the goodness or

Mariana Peña

22:32

the good. Yes, for the greater good. Because we're focusing on possibilities and the positive aspects of identifying neocolonial practices online, what would you say is the biggest payoff of not buying into this colonial practices

Danbee Shin

22:51

me? Honestly, what really gets me is at the core of new colonial practices, whether that's hosting your retreats in the Global South, whether it's under paying business owners, I feel like the ultimate possibility is that we all just see each other as individual human beings. And I know that's something that like lots of people think we have achieved, but it really isn't. It's ballsy to feel like to think that you can achieve that with business. But I really believe that One positive aspect of the fact that we live in a capitalist world is that we can use business to bring about change like that. I want it to be normal to think like I'm laughing as I say this, it's normal to pay someone the same amount, like two people the same amount of money, regardless of where they are, like what their background is, regardless of what you think their lives look like. Like something specific that I'm thinking is, oh, I pay my Filipina VA this much money and you know, that gets so much in their country. They can. This is like life changing amounts of money. And it makes me sick when I see comments like that, because they're going like, oh, look, I am doing this amazing thing with my business, I create jobs. This is an exploitative, because look at all the good I'm doing. And for me, it makes it really clear that they don't see these people that they're supposedly helping us equal human beings. The possibility of living in a world where we really see every other person as an equal human being. I feel like that boggles my mind. What can we achieve when people are not worrying about because the other side of that is there are a lot of people worrying about how they present themselves, how they communicate. There's so much unseen work being done. And whenever we talk about inclusion about decolonization, and like, imagine the possibilities of things that we could create. If we're when we put that energy that we're not spending, worrying about how we show up. If we put that energy into doing our best work, doing creative thinking, thinking of things that we haven't even been able to imagine, I also

Mariana Peña

25:12

thought about the wages, like the fees that we pay contractors, service providers, because myself, I, yes, I have my online business, but I'm a service provider, I'm not a coach. And I like not being a coach, because it connects me with my people. And it gives me the opportunity to stand against that discourse of our we're helping them we're bringing them an income that was not there before, if you're listening to this is because you are trying to build a business that has an impact in the world. That might not be the case for everyone. But I really believe that the friends that are listening are here with us right now. So that they are aligned with our values. And we both believe that we want to make change happen.

Danbee Shin

26:01

These are not structured podcast episodes, if you're this foreign, you hear about this conversation,

Mariana Peña

26:10

I think you must care. So we're trying to make change happen, the chase that maybe was not there for us when we were growing up. But we want that change to happen for the generations to come. yet. I want that change for my kids. When I think about okay, the biggest payoffs of recognizing that, regardless of geographical location, there is another human being they're trying to live their lives, especially for women, because it tends to be the case for virtual assistants, statistically speaking, and I'm going to appeal to the rational side of listeners right now, statistically speaking, it has been proven that when people invest in communities that are majority, like in the majority of women, when in the investment, I'm not talking only financially, it could be knowledge, it could be training, it could be support, health, when that investment goes to groups of women, what happens with that is that they are going to reinvest back in the community. Absolutely. They want build their own pockets, they want to keep the money for themselves, which is the case for groups of men. And of course, this statistics are completely excluding non binary. I don't have those numbers. So just bear with me on that. But that is what we know, from tons of research across the world. This is not just pertaining for regions in Latin America, no, this is across the world. When investment goes to groups of women, in any type of form of investment, they reinvest back in the community, if we are talking about changing the world, this is how it has to happen. I know that I'm not a billionaire. So I cannot go around the world just giving out money to everyone. But what I can do is if I'm going to contract someone, I'm going to recognize that humanity on the other side, and I'm going to pay a fair wage, if I don't have that budget, I'm going to wait until I have that budget to do that. Because I know that it will come back to the community. And then it's just a ripple effect.

Danbee Shin

28:35

Nothing more to add.

Mariana Peña

28:37

Thank you Will we just don't have the world? No, of course not. But But I want people to know that I want people to do understand that the possibilities are not only in your bank account, when we talk about discovering the possibilities that come to you, when you decolonize your business, this is the type of possibilities that we meet, like changing the world at large, not just your bank account

Danbee Shin

29:04

love that there are things that we can do on an individual level to make that happen. I think that's what is so powerful. We also talked in our previous episodes, what it is to foster a sense of belonging. I love this topic, because we don't even know what the possibilities are because we haven't seen it like we when someone feels that sense of belonging in a community you're not worrying about you're not putting energy into fitting in. You're not worrying about what do I look like how do I sound? What should I say? And instead you can stop protecting yourself from the people in the community and really participate and I feel like that's what really honestly when we can give this idea of belonging any number of formal definitions, but for me, that's what that is like when you feel a sense of belonging. You can just be yourself and then focus on if you're there to learn something Focus on what that person like, is teaching and learn and engage. The question I always have, what could we create if we're not spending all our energy protecting ourselves from judgment trying to fit in? Or fitting and fitting in? Yeah,

Mariana Peña

30:16

I don't know, to be honest, because I don't think that there has ever been a moment in my life where I have not been self conscious. Yeah. And maybe a few years ago, I was, I wouldn't be able to say that without crying. But now, I'm at the point where, okay, so that has been my life. Now what it seems to me, at least in my case, that I'm not near the point where I'm not going to feel self conscious anymore. I'm still working on that. Like I said, like even running my business in English is a constant reminder that oh my god, if you could only hear how smart I am in Spanish, like my grammar is flawless. I used to be a teacher of Spanish, you can only imagine. And here I am beginning an anguish where every few sentences I make like the most horrible grammatical mistakes. I spent so much time of my life trying to find rooms and spaces where I don't have to censor myself or over explain why you see them saying what I'm saying it has become better lately. I feel like we have made some progress online. Some very brave people are coming to the frontline and leading the movement of belonging. So I have a lot of hope. But I don't see yet. Like the biggest possibility there. I think this is an untapped territory yet.

Danbee Shin

31:43

Similarly, I feel like yeah, I always come back to the what is possible. Honestly, I want to know what is possible.

Mariana Peña

31:50

If we are talking about Unshakable Confidence, I can only imagine what it feels like to not be self conscious all the time when you're running your business.

Danbee Shin

32:00

And then what could you do? Honestly, what couldn't you do? What couldn't you

Mariana Peña

32:06

my bro, Brad here is building billions because he has Unshakable Confidence. Imagine if all of our overqualified alien clients had that sense of I just I belong here. This is my realm, I belong here, how different things would be okay. So if we don't have the best possible scenario, yet, what we can do is continue on this journey of identifying and reframing and unlearning the things that we are carrying from our cultural background, from religious practices from philosophies in your homeland. What possibilities do you see there?

Danbee Shin

32:49

The word of the tip of my tongue that I like held back was revolution? Honestly, imagine if everyone just showed up as who they were so steadfast in their beliefs, and so confident to speak their minds? Sure, surely, they would have nothing on us? No, we are the global majority. Absolutely. Yeah, we completely outnumber them. In my head, what I'm picturing is more and more businesses that are influential, that are being run free of all these ideas and practices that come from colonialism, where people are valued. people's energy, and labor is valued, where people's well being is prioritized. I know we have pockets of that in our business world. What if that was the norm, honestly, that that is the future that the possibility that kind of drives me,

Mariana Peña

33:47

we are not creating enough opportunities, or what is statistically the majority of the population in the globe. So because there aren't enough opportunities, we don't get to see that represented in our industries. And then we buy the idea of, oh, it's because we're not qualified. We're not good enough. Somebody else should do that. And they will do it better than I could you see how that is so insidious. Now, our act of resistance here is by you being aware of how these colonial narratives play out, and how these new colonial practices play out. Online, you will now have the opportunity to confidently say, I'm not going to partake, you get to define what that means to you, but you have the power to do

Danbee Shin

34:41

on your on your own business so you can do whatever you want. Exactly.

Mariana Peña

34:44

Exactly. We are here to tell you, you can do that. It's your business. There's no business police that is going to come and say you shouldn't believe that. No. So these are just a few of the angles and the conversation. Mostly conversations. And I really like solid strategies that we have been having for years now. And we're very happy that you are now part of these conversations. We're happy that wherever you are right now, you feel curious about these topics, maybe you're willing to join us in this little acts of resistance. Maybe you want to continue this journey with us, whether that is having a conversation with us or working with us, you get to choose that you get to choose your next step in this path.

Danbee Shin

35:37

Thank you so much for listening in on our conversation, I'm thinking about the possibilities of from this podcast, I would love to have more of these conversations. It's not just, it's not just fun. It's not just how I like spending my time, I honestly feel like I grow so much every time I'm trying not to sound like a jumble of cliches, but honestly, I learned so much. And it's not just about the world. But honestly, I learned so much about myself, someone said that, if your business idea involves people learning more about themselves, you're probably going to make a lot of money. And with even without that very cynical, capitalistic lens on things I value, that's how much I value learning about myself, I hope we get to do more of this. I don't know if I want to put this out into the world quite quite in this way. But I would love it if this series of podcasts like led to group conversations, whether that's in a podcast setting, whether it's a live setting, whether it's an in person setting. So consider this an invitation to think about all the topics that we've discussed Mariana and I through this through this series and join us. Perhaps in the future, let us know

Mariana Peña

36:52

this is a fantastic idea. Yes. Let's manifest this. We have communication channels, let us know what topic was you heard and you went, Oh, that felt like that, that hit my God. Because then we're onto something here. And like we said, these are not scripted episodes. So whatever it is that comes next, will be also not scripted will be raw will be in community.

Danbee Shin

37:21

I think that's the perfect place to wrap up. Thank you so much. I have really enjoyed spending all this time chatting about things we really both care about Mariana I love that we said we should talk about this and we did. I have a feeling get that this will not be laughing because I'm like no way this is gonna be the last. Thank you so much.

Mariana Peña

37:47

Thank you. I truly believe in the power of community. I truly believe in collective wisdom. And I feel that right now even without knowing who is listening to us on the other end, I can feel that energetic feeding back to us. And that is a beautiful way of ending this experiment that hopefully will not only be one experiment, but will continue to grow together. Thank you everybody for your time for your your willingness to engage with us. See you next time. Bye

00:0000:00