Ep 3: The Glass Half Full... Honouring every learner at every level through Universal Design for Learning
2:01PM May 8, +0000
Speakers:
Shelli Ann Garland
Mags Flood
Keywords:
udl
learning
students
teachers
classroom
universal design
learner
ireland
people
talking
book
thinking
educators
important
read
equity
special education
rubik
approach
teaching
Hello, and welcome to a dash of salt. I'm Dr. Shelli Ann and I'm so glad you're here. Whether you stumbled upon this podcast by accident, or you're here because the subject drew you in welcome. Salt is an acronym for society and learning today. This podcast was created as an outlet for inviting fresh discussions on sociology and learning theories that impact your world. Each episode includes a wide range of themes that focus on society in everyday learning, whether formal or informal. So let's get stuck in shall we?
Welcome to a dash of salt. Today I'm joined by Dr. Margaret flood. Margaret's experience in inclusive and special education includes teaching, teacher professional learning, design and delivery and policy development and curriculum design. She's an advocate for the use of universal design for learning for inclusive learning and teaching. Currently, Margaret is preparing to take up her Fulbright Scholar Award in Boston College and cast. Here Margaret hopes to identify system requirements for UDL and activate in Ireland. She created hashtag UDL chat, ie on Twitter, which is Ireland's first dedicated space for chatting about all things universal design for learning. And I understand it has just celebrated its first birthday in existence. I'm delighted to have you on the podcast to chat about the universal design for learning approach, what it is, how it can be enacted, and the benefits a universal design can have not just in a classroom or formal learning scenario, but across all levels of learning ability and sectors throughout society. Welcome Mags.
Hi, Shelli. And thanks so much for having me here. today. I'm really excited to be talking to you about universal design for learning.
Fantastic! We're gonna dig right in as I always like to do. Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and what it is that inspired you to research and promote this approach for learning.
Okay, so I always knew that I was going to be a special education teacher because I have family members with special educational needs. And while as a child, I was really jealous because they were going to off to a special school and they were doing horse riding and cooking and swimming, and coming home and playing with mommy while I was in school slogging over English, Irish maths coming home and being sent to my room to slide more. As I got older, I realised the gap in in our education in how our educational achievements were celebrated. And then how people even spoke to us in in terms of what we were doing in school. And that that gave me the impetus to actually be a person who made changes in special education. And I purposely went in special education in mainstream schools, so that I could support students to be part of what we call a mainstream education. And I even don't, I don't even like that word mainstream, because it's signifying a difference already, but that they were in with their peers, and that there was some real learning taking place. And from there, I actually started thinking about inclusive education, and what it actually meant for everybody to be included in their education. So it's not just students with special educational needs, who are being marginalised. It's students who, in terms of social justice, that students who just haven't been dealt the right hand. So they have been dealt their cards and compared to my cards, which are all aces, they from the very beginning with their twos and their threes, have to scrape and try and build up to catch up with me who already has all my aces. So I'm the winner before they even start. I just wanted to bring that into the classroom. And think about it from everybody's perspective, because just because you're the brightest person in the classroom, doesn't mean you were dealt the asis. God knows what you've been dealt at home, and how that's going to impact your your learning, so you're never going to be able to show that brightness that is shining within you. So even though I came across Universal Design for Learning or UDL because I know I'm going to slip into UDL. Even though I came across it from a special education perspective, I very quickly learned But this is bigger and better than that. And it's not just a special education, it's for everyone. And it moves us outside of that one size fits all thinking, to let's start thinking about the variability of the learners who are in front of us, whether it's primary post primary, further or higher education. And let's actually give them the opportunity to demonstrate and show us the brightness that is burning inside them.
You made me just really think about the idea that it's not really about learning disability or learning ability. It's about how eaten each individual learns. And I think that's really important. Because, like you said, it could be based on things like socio economic status, or what you were saying things that happen at home and not about them somebody's actual ability to learn, you know, whether they have some sort of a learning disability or something like that. So that's really interesting. What I'd like to know about is what exactly is UDL Universal Design for Learning its history, and its design? What's behind it? And what is what is this approach?
Yeah, the first thing I'm actually going to say is reiterate what I've said there, it's not, this isn't something that is just for students with special education needs or disabilities. This is something that is for everyone. And it's based in in your refines which I'm not going to go into, because I couldn't explain it very well with my non neurosciences brain. But what it is, is that considering that variability of every student and walking into your classroom and going i've i've a mixed bag here, that every student isn't the same, every student isn't average. And that we shouldn't actually be thinking in terms of average, we should be thinking in terms of how the students think how the students learn, and how everybody's brain is different. Everybody is variable, and that we can work around and with that, and that we can plan for that. And if we plan for that variability, through giving students choices and flexibility, that actually that's when we start honouring them. And that's when we start allowing them to show their brightness centre and start glowing. So if you think about it, in that terms, Universal Design for Learning originations in architecture, actually as originations, from designing buildings that would be accessible to everybody. So instead of just putting in steps that you were put in ramps, as well. And everybody, whether you are a wheelchair user, whether you were pushing a pram, or whether you were walking, you can use the ramps, so therefore, you actually don't need the stacks. But you know, they're a good choice for somebody who wants to build up their cardio and get a little bit of extra slides before the working day starts, or before they sit down when they get into the room. UDL is about that prediction as well. It's about looking at what each learner may need within a lesson and predicting that and putting in intentional choices. So it's not like an ala carte menu where you walk into your learning environment. And you say, Okay, this is what we're doing today. And you just choose how you would like to do it. It's about actually being very clear about what the goal of the lesson or the activity is, and putting in intentional choices for choosing for students to pick from that will support them and challenge them to reach that goal. So in UDL terms, they do this in terms of engagement, representation, and action and expression. And if you break that down, really the engagement is really you as the educator thinking, Okay, how will my students engage in this lesson? And how can I support them and challenge them to engage in this lesson, the representation is about how the students will perceive the content that you are presenting to them. So therefore, you have to think about how you are presenting that content. It can't just be a presentation on a PowerPoint presentation on the board, you might have an audio clip, you might have visual representations, you might have something that they could read independently, if they have already seen this presentation in a previous left lesson or a previous setting. And then the action and expression is how our students can act on their, on their understanding, and how they can demonstrate their learning in a way that shows their best selves. So not in a way that we trust. Think and value is the best way to do it, ie writing something, but that we give them the choices again, intentional choices that work with the goal that has been set for this lesson. And that is how you get your students engaged, how you get them, to progress with their learning to want to learn more, and to be able to show you where they are. And that showing you where they are asked for me is one of the most important things in UDL. Because when we know where our students are ash, then we can support them, and we can challenge them. And we're never saying, Okay, you've learned everything you can learn today. So for me, and I know, you've heard me talk about this before Shelley. And it really is that glass half full kind of thinking. I am presuming my students have competence. And now I want to know how I can support and develop their confidence and allow them to challenge themselves and come back and show me more of what they've learned so that I can challenge them again. I love it. I think it works for everyone. And it is that variability going in your classroom is a kaleidoscope of colours. It's not just green.
I love that. I if you don't mind, I want to put you on the spot really quickly. And just ask you if you can maybe provide just a couple of quick examples of what you were talking about how students the idea of how they can act and how they can demonstrate their learning? Can you provide us with a couple of quick examples as to what that might look like coming from one student or another?
Okay, so if if we just go to the action on the expression, so how they can demonstrate their learning? Let's go to the English essay. I'm going to give you an example. I was an English teacher as well as a nursery teacher. So you're doing Romeo and Juliet. And they have to give you a review of that. What do we ask them to do as teachers? We ask them to write an essay? Yeah. Okay. Is that actually the best way for the students to demonstrate their understanding of Romeo and Juliet? Is the goal for them to be able to write quickly in a two hour exam? Or is it to do that demonstration? And if it is to do that demonstration? Can they do an iMovie? Can they do a post your presentation? Can they pair up with some of their classmates and do a roleplay? Can they do a poem about us? There's so many different opportunities for them to be able to do. I actually want saw students come back with a comic strip of Romeo and Juliet, it was so cool. So that students showed creativity showed artistic skills, show text be able to sense a sentence or a scene of Romeo and Juliet into one and two liners, because we know that's all you have in a comic strip, and demonstrations that they completely understood what the background and the history and the character developments of Romeo and Juliet was, in this beautiful, beautiful comic strip display. I learned so much about that student that I did not know, when I offered choice.
It The thing that I think that strikes me about that is, is when you were saying it allows that creativity. And I think it must do so much for a student to be able to have that for their self image. And to be able to have that ability to demonstrate an achievement or to be able to have the autonomy to say, this is how I want to show you what I've learned. And it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful approach and a beautiful way to teach, I think a so why is it important than for educators to understand and enact this approach to learning?
Okay, so there's a couple of reasons for this. As you're aware, Ireland has signed up to the UN Convention of rights for people with disabilities. And article 24 of that is about education. And it's something that there's been a very key focus on in Ireland in the last two years, in that we're not meeting that standard, and that we need to start moving or model of inclusion. Now again, I know it's based on the disability and the special educational needs. But actually, if we if we take what organisations like National Council for special education have been researching, which is models in other countries based on UDL, we can see again that this actually does have an impact on everybody in the classroom. So if we want to prepare Or mainstream teachers for want of a better word, to be able to welcome and to meaningfully engage students of all varying abilities with varying skills, creativity, artistic, whatever it is into their classrooms, but they have to have some sort of approach that not only works for the students, but also works for the teachers as well. And at the moment, what we are doing in classrooms is we are differentiated we are differentiation, so we're making our plan. So again, think of your classroom, Shelley Moore, a Canadian person who I just love how she talks about inclusion, talks about teaching to the green. And if we walk into our classroom, and we just think that all of our students are average, so they're all just green. And we might have one or two blues who are a special education needs, we might have one or two yellows who are our gifted and talented, and we might have a red student who is learning English as a second language, we're going in and we're seeing green, and then we're planning for green. And then what we have to do, we have to retrofit the plan, because we've only planned for green. So we have to plan it off, or we have to plan it down, which really aren't very nice terms to be using when we're thinking about planning and learning and teaching for our students. So if we go in, and we think I've got purples, and yellows, and greens, and yellows, and all different colours, then you're going I actually need to be prepared as the education going into this room. And the best way I can prepare is to say there's variability and diversity in this classroom. And now let me put in the choices for those students to be able to do so that that is the reason that in a nutshell, it's going to be time consuming for the teachers in the beginning, because you're getting used to this. And I have to be honest, and say when I first started tinkering with UDL, I was putting in like 15 choices where I only needed five. So that took me hours of planning. But once you get into us, you will find that it really really works. Somebody else who I follow, Frederick, for me, another Canadian actually talks about UDL being the translation of the social justice model, into actual classroom practice. And that's what we need to see this as, as an approach. And it's not a strategy. So it's not a one size fits all. It's an approach where you're pulling in other strategies, that is translating that model of social justice into concrete classroom practices that benefit the students and the teachers are like.
So I think this to me, this speaks very much about the the student as an individual with these with unique needs, and meeting them where they're at in those needs. What do you feel that teachers need to be able to enact UDL in their in their schools and in their classrooms?
Such a good question. And they need right now in Ireland a lot. So to be honest, there is no formal policy structures for UDL, differentiation is often the go to. So to begin with, the policy does need to reflect the changes that are already happening in schools. And the policy then needs to dwindle down into professional learning for teachers. I mean, you know, from working with your own students in college, that if they don't see the benefits of what you're teaching them, they're not going to follow through on us. And all of the research and was even in my dear research, which was on CPD for inclusive practices showed that if the teachers don't see the benefits to their students, not even themselves, but for their students, and in positive benefits, they're not going to follow through. And so it's really important that we are building to teachers beliefs and something. And to do that, we need to give them the knowledge, we also need to give them the skills and the opportunity to do it, and come back to another session. And I suppose that's one of the downfalls that I see in a lot of CPD in Ireland is that they're often particularly when it comes to special educational needs. They're often one stop shop sessions, and then you go and you have to figure it out all of yourself. And again, coming back to my own research. In the school I was in that's what the teachers found. So my research was actually increased practices for laboratory learning programmes. to teachers went out for an optional CPD on the laboratory learning programmes had the responsibility of Coming back, giving all of that information to their teachers. So the information was being diluted by the time it went to the rest of the teachers, but a school that they embraced it, they wanted to try it. But because there was no more training for them, they lost the momentum. And we're nearly back at the beginning, by the time that I came into them, like they were going, please come in, and help us get this off the ground, because we only got two teachers sent out and then a two hour homeschool induction. So if that happens with something like UDL, teachers aren't going to know where to go next, or what they can do, or how they can tease out the challenges and the barriers that they're going to encounter. And I know UDL is all about removing barriers, when you're learning you know yourself, you come across barriers, and you need somebody to be able to tease that out with the proper support is going to be essential for this to, to work itself through. And it was it was really interesting that in my own research, and I'm just going to pull up a page here, that teachers actually did talk about that. They talked about the benefits of the UDL. And they thought it's using UDL, and building and choice from the beginning, made my life easier. I mean, it took time initially, but in the end, it was quicker than making my plan and then looking at my class and thinking, Oh, it won't work for him and her. And having to, as you said, retrofit my plans. They worked beautifully with my classroom based assessment assessments, tic tac toe, all students got to choose how they engaged with preparing for and demonstrating their knowledge. And no one stood out for doing something different, regardless of if they had a special education needs. We're doing level two learning programmes, or we're the high achievers in my class. And a colleague then talked about how they were looking up, UDL CPD from caste, and that they were focusing on their representation and how much they loved, that UDL was not about fixing the students, but making changes to remove barriers. But they had to proactively go and seek the support and seek the training that it wasn't readily available for them.
Yeah. And it seems that in some instances, from what you've just been talking to us about that, you know, often teachers are given these tools, and maybe a really quick primer on how to use the tools, and then they're sent away. And so it's like being handed something and then not really knowing what to do with it. And, and not everybody is proactive in going and seeking and hunting and looking in further. And so there really is something to be said for the availability and accessibility of resources for the teachers as well for those who are teaching and trying to enact UDL in their classroom. So is UDL only for educators, though?
No, like, and this is the joy about universal design for learning is that because it's about removing barriers, and because it's about choice and flexibility, it can be applied across the board. So you could have in, in businesses, you know, if you take the the time focus out of the business, and you pocket, put it to the task focus, like if the job is done, and it's done well, does it matter how the person gets there? So if you're travelling to cork, for example, not that any of us are travelling anywhere at the moment, right. But if you're travelling to cork, doesn't matter whether you take the train the boss or the car, once you get there on time, and you're prepared to engage with whatever activity that you're you're driving to work for. The GAA have a diversity and inclusion specialists actually working with them. Fantastic lady Geraldine. I think she's there two years now, who actually attends UDL training, and brings UDL into coaching skills and different things happen in the GTA, and has brought it to coach training as well. So that's one example in Ireland that I know of where it is outside the learning as in the classroom environment, that is actually working businesses. They're still talking about universal design. But in fact, they are using elements of universal design for learning. It's just that I think in a business words, Universal Design probably sounds more business like because it doesn't have that for learning at the end of us, you know, yeah,
yeah. Because, you know, we all get to a point sometimes in our lives where we think I'm not a learner anymore. You know,
Absolutely!
I'm all I'm all done learning. And of course we all know that, you know, I think it was Einstein who said, if if you know, you stop learning you stop living or something along those lines.
Absolutely, David Rose who, who designed, UDL actually says that we're on a continuum of learning from newness to routine. And every time we engage in something new, we're obviously back to newness. And this continuum is our journey to be expert learners. And actually, can anyone ever say they're an expert learner, because there is always something new coming out, even in our fields, Shelly on, like, we're both sitting here with our PhDs and doctorates. But like, we haven't stopped learning because something new has come out since we got that qualification. So we're constantly on that journey to being expert learners. And that's how we should be looking at the journey for our students not to get a specific grade at the end of junior cycle or Leaving Cert or the class exam at summer. in primary school, but but they are expert learners within their own right.
Yeah. So it really does speak to that whole idea of lifelong learning and, and why it's, that's so important. And it actually makes me think about how important it is. And maybe you can speak a little bit more to this. UDL is important for learners or for people, if you don't want to call yourself a learner, for people kind of living and learning about life in all at all levels of their of their lifetime. And, you know, maybe you have some examples or some something that you can tell us about how UDL would work maybe for somebody who's in their 80s as opposed to somebody who's in their 40s or, you know, and and not just about students and in, you know, formal schooling.
Yeah, there, there was a really good example, David Rose, and some of his colleagues wrote a book. And for me, this is the first go to book for universal design for learning. And it's called Universal Design for Learning Theory and Practice. It's on the cast website, Shelly on and it's a free interactive to say they're not even ask it. So you know, they are supporting universal access, they are giving you this book, for free. You can take your notes, there's reflections, there's videos for you to follow in it. It's absolutely fantastic. But one of the examples they have, and it's not an 80 year old, but it is somebody who wanted to learn how to play chess. I lie sorry, it was the Rubik's Cube. Okay. So they they became an expert learner in the Rubik's Cube. And they were doing this by themselves. So they got a Rubik's Cube at the present. They want to learn how to play it. They do you play a Rubik's Cube? Or do you? Anyway, they learn to do the Rubik's cube by watching videos for YouTube videos and tutorials and reading up about and then setting themselves time limits. So I'm going to get it done in half an hour for me would take years and it still wouldn't be done. I'm gonna get it done and a half an hour. Okay, so I've gotten I've gotten that done in half an hour. Am I an expert learner? No, because I could work to reduce that time. Or I can now enter a competition and I can compete against other people. And again, as as the Rubik's Cube words expanded, this learner expanded their learning within that small thing of a Rubik's cube. So if you're somebody who wants to learn to knit, you would do the same thing. You might watch some YouTube clips, you'd buy a pattern, you'd choose the colours. So for me, if I wanted to learn to knit, it would have to be purple, because that might be the only thing that would make me pick it off of an evening is looking at the bright colour. If you're going back to education, I think it's vitally important that the options are there for you, as somebody who is re entering the education system who may have been out there for a while, to be able to tell your story, and to be able to bring whatever knowledge and experiences you have, from your, your previous life into that learning you're doing as well. And that's how the person supporting you is going to see again, where you're at and how they can support and how they can challenge you. So there's so many and it just goes across everything in life. I mean, I know I told you about shoes when I was talking about it before. I won't go into it again. But it is there in every aspect of life because if you are learning something regardless whether it's formal education, a hobby or within your job, there is a process there is a journey that you have to go through.
And even in even the idea of of personal enrichment, just being able to keep your mind fresh and and to do things and You talked about knitting and the first thing I thought was, we'd really have to pull in some universal design for learning approaches. For me, I would say that I'd be it a bit of a challenge, because they my my grandmother's did try to teach me to knit, but I was left handed. So they actually had a struggle in figuring out how to appropriately teach me how to knit. And then like I said, I looked at a pattern and maths and numbers are not my strong suit, thinking and philosophy and things like that would be and I looked at that pattern and thought can't do this Can't I just can't do so that would be really interesting to take up and to look at how would you know, what would be the ways that someone could teach me to do that in a way you know, that would that would suit me, you know, you can make make it work, you just have to think it through you know, Um
and I'm even thinking as we're sitting here Shetty on like, podcasts have blown up in the last year. And the accessibility that's giving to so many other people, so, so people who, who may want to engage in books or engage in conversations, but just don't have the time or, or the space to sit down with a 400 page book to learn about whatever it is that you've now got things like podcast podcasts, where you have these conversations, the audible books have just blown up this year, like that's all UDL, I can now sit down and listen, I'm going to show my my quirkiness here, I can listen to my Harry Potter books for like millions time. Because my eyes might be too tired after a fluid day on the screen. And I don't want to actually pick up a paper book and read us. But I can still read by listening to us. It's all UDL, it's there in so many aspects of our life, that we just don't see it.
Yes. And like something that was originally designed to be for those who were visually impaired, to be able to be able to read a book audibly, and bring that to life, in nods to the whole idea of a learn of universal design for learning approach. Because it's something that everyone can get enjoyment out of, in whatever way works best for them.
And recognising that you are reading the book, you're not listening to it is hidden reading. But it has expanded what the word text means. And even for example, if you if you look at curriculum specifications, more so actually the frameworks that are out there for schools, that they are putting that Asterix beside the word text, and given examples of everything that it is, so that a teacher is instead of thinking in that traditional sense that it is something hard that you pick up that has lots of lectures on it.
And it's not just text to one that I word that I use, and that I think that can go in many different directions is that the word narrative, because it can be written narrative, it can be spoken narrative, you know, that it can be interpreted in so many different ways.
So, it again, it shows us that we've talked about social justice, but it's it shows up for those people who really do like to have a theory behind this, how it really fits into those construct approaches, particularly particularly like social constructs, and construct alternative ism, because it is about what we make of the words and how we perceive the world and the tools we use to be able to engage in the world as well. So that's so important.
Yeah, and you actually just brought up a couple of things that were making me think about how does UDL contribute to a culturally responsive environment?
Yeah, and that is so important at the moment in an ever increasing diverse Irish society I mean, when I was in, in primary school, actually even in post primary schools so right off until I left post Primary School at 18 I was an all white classrooms and that was my words. And that was the education system. And there was no need to be representing a person of colour or even actually no I'm saying no need to represent a person of colour but actually wasn't even represent representations of people in wheelchairs. You know, every everything was the able bodied white person like that's what our books were, that's what everything was. And I'm just thinking now in junior cycle wonder, is is one of the books in junior cycle as you know, that's about a young boy with a physical disability. So you can see the different representation there. But when you when you're talking about cultural responsiveness, it about asking yourself as a teacher, when you are an educator when you were walking into a classroom, are you representing that diversity and that variability of every students? Are the posters on your wall representative of our society today. So do you have pictures, books, videos, whatever it is you're using, that has black people in us that have people in which are people with a cane, people who are blind people who are deaf, people who have Down syndrome, or autism, or whatever it is, and that is representing them in a way that is positive, and sees them as valued members of our society. you're checking that what's in your library isn't stereotypical in the negative sense that it isn't derogatory towards one group, or promoting one group over another that it's not saying and again, back to the social justice and be equity, that it's not saying one group knows more and deserves more than another group. Because of they work hard, or they whatever, I didn't work harder to get my my, my deck of aces if they were just handed to me, that was just good luck on my part. So I think if you're thinking about it that way, you're always going to be thinking about that representation. But also, it's about inviting. It's about inviting students to share their experiences, to share their cultural experiences and their social experiences as a learning process for not only the other students, but also for you. And Andrew teesha, Fritz Jones, in her book, anti racism on Universal Design for Learning talks about this in terms of honouring our students, that if we're not allowing them bring those experiences to the classroom, that we're actually blocking their genius that we're not bringing, we're not letting them bring their genius to the classroom. And I think that's something really important. I don't know if you know that there's a course called Irish studies as part of the junior cycle students programme. It's often offered to students in junior cycle, who may have an exemption from Irish, because they are second generation. Thank you. Yeah, I guess there's a there's a tongue twister. And when we taught this in my school, when I was in the classroom, and I taught us, and I was going through, and the first couple of years, I was teaching a shoe, it was fine.
It's actually written, I should preface this, it's actually written from a Catholic slash Christian perspective, when you actually really interrogate the short course. So for the first couple of years, I taught it blindly. You know, I looked at my learning outcomes, and I went in, and I taught them. And then one year, I just happened to have two students who were Muslim, three students who were from Poland, or Lithuania, and a student who was a Jehovah Witness. And the course is it's, as I said, it's Christian Irish Catholic perspective. So of course, a lot of the course was around saints. So there was a whole section on St. Patrick's Day, about our Easter traditions and about our Christmas traditions. And to be I'll be honest, that was a student who was Jehovah Witness, but actually, was what drew my attention to all of this, because they didn't celebrate any of these holidays, I'll be honest, I hadn't actually thought about my students who had different cultural experiences from their own countries. When we got to St. Patrick's Day, I was going like, I have to do something different here. What will I do? So I asked the students to talk about some figure from the past, who was important in their culture. So I took St. out it was I took the religion out of us. And they came back with with presidents with poets with patron saints. Polish is a very Catholic country. So the Polish student came back with the patron saint of Poland. And for my students, who is a Jehovah Witness, I actually took the time to speak with their parent with his parents, and ask, so what can I do? How can I phrase this in a way that is acknowledging his cultural background, his religious beliefs in a way that would still meld into this, and they helped me with it, because that was the one religion or the one aspect that I knew nothing about. And the one that highlighted all of this to me, they were so so grateful. The student really engaged in something he didn't engage in a lot of the Irish studies. I figured out why, why, why as I was going through it, but he really engaged and then when we came to Easter, I asked them all to tell us about their celebrations in their countries. And for this student, it was like, What do you celebrate? As a Jehovah Witness, what is what are your important times of year, and so on and so forth. And this actually led to us when it came to Christmas, translating Happy Christmas into all the languages of all the students in our country, and putting them around our country, Christmas week, you know, something very simple that came out of me looking at one student and going, I don't know how I can teach 70% of this course to you, because of your cultural experiences. And that's not to do with you, you've done nothing wrong, by having your religious beliefs, this course has been written in a way that is excluding you, and it's throwing up a barrier to the student, and to me as his teacher, at every single turn. So it was just working around that it was such a huge learning experience that went about using UDL, outside of that SEN perspective. And showing that it really is about including everyone.
Yeah, it was more about equity and inclusion, more than differentiation, you know, which we know is more of a bit of a medical model, you know, to to the way in which we teach but, but the one thing that struck me was the idea that the demographics and the fabric in Ireland especially, is changing and has been changing over the last decade, with you know, a lot of immigrants coming in, and people from different backgrounds and, and while we have to, you know, we have to be able to teach this idea of global consciousness and, and the cultural awareness is, what we need to do as educators is to make sure, with teaching, and the way you teach must always be evolving, we should always be thinking about involving, you talked about in the very beginning, I just set to the task and did exactly what I was supposed to do for this particular, you know, lesson that I was to be teaching, but then as you grew in confidence, and then you started gaining these awarenesses, you took that, and then you started moulding, and shaping that on for your students, not for yourself, but for your students and their learning. And what a difference I bet that you in the way in which you impacted and made such a difference, you know, to them because of that.
And when you think it was, it really was that learning together moment. So instead of having 10 projects on St. Patrick, that everyone in the classroom knew about because who, who around the world doesn't know about St. Patrick. But we learned about all of these different fingers from from different cultural backgrounds, from from different societies, whatever it was, it actually turned something that for me as a teacher was very boring to have to read 10 St. Patrick's Day projects, for the fifth year running, to actually be learning something and like a Christmas, I learned that the Polish, and they share gifts over nine days coming up to Christmas. So they have a nine day run into Christmas. And everyone in the classroom have really excited about this and wants to go home and tell their parents well, you know. And it was those little things that actually made our little group, a community of learners, and not just 10 individual students and one teacher, or writing about St. Patrick or Christmas in Ireland or whatever it was.
And then you were learning right along with your students, you know, which speaks a lot to that idea of, you know, involved learning and active learning and all of these, these things that, you know, that we as teachers should be thinking about. It's not not, it's no more about just being in front of the class, teaching out to the class, but actually being involved in learning and letting your class and your students recognise that you're learning right along with them. It's that idea of learning at all levels.
Absolutely. And again, Andrea Teesha talks about in her book, that it's about us trusting to learn from our students. So I trust you, as my students teach you. But even more so I trust you as my students to teach the others who are in this community with us. And I think that is so important. And it's one of the cruxes of UDL as well. And actually, there's another book and I'm just reading it at the moment. It's equity by design by Marco shards and Katie Novak. And again, they're all talking about that I find it finding that potential, that recognising we all haven't been dealt equal hands, working with the hands that we have. So in terms of it's not equality, where you got your hands, and now we're going to give you all the same supports, because that's what equality is. And that's great, because that works for those of us who were floating up on the top of that glass of milk. But for the others who are getting equal support for us, we're still galloping miles ahead, that's never going to work. So it goes back to that equity, where we're putting the sports where they need to go and we're doing this in a in a positive way. We're not doing it in this derogatory way. Oh, well, you know, we just put the sports there, but there's no expectations. It's like tokenistic, tick the box. Marlin conference mix actually talks about that as soft equity. So it's just equity, equity in name but not equity in action. Where of Mirko and Casey are really showing the concreteness of putting that equity into actual into action through UDL, and true cultural responsiveness. And they actually link the two beautifully in their book. It's that, bringing it all together, and making it real and meaningful for everybody who's involved in that learning community, including the teacher.
And you know, Mags, anybody who has been listening to you talk for the last 40 minutes can tell that you are just absolutely not only are you passionate about universal design for learning, but you are you are absolutely brilliant. And you're so well learned. And in the very beginning, when I introduced you, I, I talked about the fact that you've received a Fulbright Scholar Award, which is quite an honour, and that you're going to be heading to the United States this summer. To fulfil that, that that honour and that award and that obligation. So first of all, congratulations to you. It is quite an honour to be a Fulbright Scholar. What do you believe that this award will mean to you? Or for you? And the promotion of universal design for learning in the Irish context?
Yeah, I am so so excited to be heading over and heading over in August a year later than anticipations. Because of COVID. But actually, when we talk about us being like lifelong learners, I'm delighted that it's a year later, because I've learned so much and so much has changed in the UDL world, even in the last year, that I'm now going to be able to go over and jump into that. So yeah, so I'm so so lucky. My host is Dr. Richard Jackson in Boston College, who is also working with cast. So he's the link person between Boston College and cast. And they're absolutely amazing. I've been to some of their symposiums. So I will be going over to look at what UDL in its truest form really means. And to really be able to dig deep with those international experts on what UDL is. And I want to do this in an effort if if we are moving towards this model of fall inclusion that I mentioned at the beginning of our chat if we're moving towards this, and if we are looking at jurisdictions that have based their model of of inclusion on UDL, we need to be prepared for us. And it goes back to what our teachers and our schools need. We need to be prepared for it. And we need to be prepared for us at all levels. So at the macro, the metal and the micro level. It's not just about us handing something to teachers and say Off you go UDL and it needs to start at the very top. So I want to go over and I want to tease out the system requirements for UDL. In America. UDL was born, bred and has grown up in America. So it's for the likes of me now to go learn as much as I can contextualise us for the Irish education system, because as you know, every country has a different education system. UDL is is one of the premises and I can't believe I haven't said this earlier is that it is contextual. It is that it is based on that variety of students sitting there in front of you. The culture of your school, geographical and demographic of your school all feeds into how you will approach UDL. So you've got your principles, your engagement, your action and expression and your representation as your foundations, but after dosh it's contextual. And it's working with what you have. So I want to learn about all of that. I want to identify the system requirements, starting a policy and bringing it right down into the classroom. And then when I come back, because it's only four months, it won't all happen over there. When I come back, start looking at a roadmap for an act in UDL. In Ireland. It's It's It's already established in higher education, and they're making really good roads into it, but actually now getting it into both primary and primary school and creating that roadmap. I'm also really fortunate, and it wasn't my intention when I applied for the Fulbright. But caster actually reviewing and redesigning the UDL guidelines, from an equity perspective, just be equity was always parked, which we've just discussed that for the last 45 minutes, but it's in places and they've spoken a lot about making that more explicit. It is I'm going to Say it's in its third decades now UDL. So they're constantly going back and looking looking over it and moving with the times. And I get to be a part of that. So I get to work with Jenna and Nicole, who will be leading this review in cast. And I get to work with them, actually reviewing the guidelines. So being there at the forefront of the next iteration of guidelines that are coming out, and not having to interpret us not having to be sitting here in Ireland and interpreting the guidelines, but actually being able to say No, actually I was there, this this is the intention. This is what they mean. And I think that's going to be really beneficial in terms of trying to roadmap UDL enactment here in Ireland as well. So I'm, I'm just I'm so excited to call and Jenna are amazing people. We've had loads of charts, and so passionate, like all of their colleagues in Cass and Richard in Boston College. So to actually get the opportunity to be doing that hands on work. So I'm not just going there reading articles or going visiting schools to see what they're doing. I'm actually doing get my hands dirty and doing the hands on work.
How amazing is it that Ireland is going to be able to benefit from this when you come back? listeners if you're interested in Universal Design for Learning and you're not already following Meg's because she always puts out a tweet shortly before the UDL chats happen. So I'm going to actually ask you mags real quick to just tell us what your Twitter handle is, if you don't mind, and then people can follow you if they're interested.
It's @MagsFlood. And you're right, a lot of my tweets are around UDL and inclusive education in general. And I'll always send out a tweet the Monday before just to remind people that the chat is happening.
Exactly, So do you have you've actually spoken to a lot of different books that you've been reading and different things? You've talked about CAST? Are there other resources for for for further independent learning? for anybody who is interested in Universal Design for Learning inclusive learning, some publications or links or things that you want to share with us?
Absolutely, I'm hoping Kellyanne, you'll be able to share the link to my Padlet with a lot of resources on that. For the beginners. The very first book I read was UDL now, by Katie Novak. And for a beginner, that is the best place to start, because it has concrete examples. It is American, so it is talking about the cage quick k 12. system. And you'll see that the examples are based on that. But you can see how you can either size those examples as well. And it just gives you a really, really good flushing on that. for teachers who are who were established in in the classroom, on to may know a little bit a little bit about UDL, or may not, but are really interested in inclusive education, I would recommend a book called on learning. And the reason I'm recommending that book is because it talks about that change in mindset. And it's talking about, you know, throwing out the bad keeping the good so that you can actually start being more inclusive. And they have a lovely diagram in the book that is the unlearning cycle. And it starts with talking about understanding variability. Knowing your goal is two things what we've which we've talked about today, and then what I keep falling off citing every time I'm talking to Allison, one of the the authors is transformed, tried and true techniques. And that's really important in UDL that isn't about throwing out everything. There are some fantastic strategies that fit beautifully into the UDL concept or the UDL approach. So that is one that I would really recommend. And then I have spoken a lot about Andrew teachers book, anti racism and universal design for learning that that book, broke my heart and gave me hope, all in one. And it's just a beautiful book. In the true concept of UDL, it goes to equity, restorative practices, cultural responsiveness, and my most favourite part was honouring your students. It is all about honouring your students, and that is beautiful. And the one that I'm reading now, equity by design, delivering on the power and promise of UDL. As I said, I'm not actually able to read us in sequence because I keep jumping to different parts and places, but it's usually written and in the style I haven't read anything by Marco before, but in case he stopped There are concrete examples, and they've invited teachers to contribute to it as well. So it's not just the academic, although Katie and Marco are both educators themselves, so they are on the ground. But they've invited teachers from the classroom to contribute to it as well. So there's loads of articles out there, it is a much like if you Google, you'd find more. But last but not least, there is cast website, go just just google UDL guidelines cast, it will bring you directly to that page. The book I've talking about UDL theory and practice, which is I said, it's free and interactive. Just logging you can, you can read it without logging in. But if you log in, then you get to keep all of your notes and stuff as you're going through or so that again, very UDL very accessible approach. And then they have a sister website, I suppose. And I hope I'm going to get the title of this right design learning or learning divined learning designs. And they are doing offering free UDL badges. So you can actually do a beginners course for UDL on that website as well. And they throw up loads of others.
And one thing I did want to bring up is while you were giving us this lovely list of resources, I did Google, what casp stands for, and its centre for Applied special technology. So Centre for Applied special technology is is what cast is. And on the other thing, too, that I wanted to mention really quickly as that of course, the teaching Council has a universal, a universal design for learning badge, digital badge that you could also participate in. They don't run they run it several times a year. I think it's through a head actually. I think it's a teaching council sort of stamped Is that right?
That is run through AHEAD. So unfortunately, primary and post primary teachers don't have access to that one. Before there was anything primary post primary on UDL. It was ahead I went through, get for absolutely everything, even their conferences. I went to those. And then just as we do translations as to my own practices, I post-primary. So they are absolutely fantastic. But of course, just in case people run and get disappointed like I did,
That is good to know, but you know, that's something to look forward to hoping for your roadmap, when you come back from the US is is trying to get, you know, more UDL approaches in and opportunities for training and learning through for initial teacher education. And for those who are teaching to be able to have those opportunities as well. So Mag's any final words that you'd like to share with everyone? Before we before I bid you adieu?
Yes, the website that I forgot when you were chatting, I was googling it's understood.org.
Oh, yes. Okay. understood.org. Yeah,
what's really nice about it is that it's it's a, it's a blog style writing, I suppose for the resources. So they're all very teacher friendly. People working for cast contribute articles to understood.org. And there's lovely once they're on planning templates. When I say planning templates, I don't mean something that you follow prescriptively because nothing in UDL is prescriptive. But actually, they give some really good direction just when you're starting. And just their articles are short and sweet. And to the point, which is something that most educators appreciate.
wonderful, So Margaret flood, Dr. Margaret flood, aka to me Mags. Thank you so much for being on my podcast and for talking to us about all things, Universal Design for Learning. I wish you the absolute best of luck heading to the US and, and I cannot wait to you come back and to hear about everything that you've participated in and how much you're going to be able to give to, to the country of Ireland and to all of us educators here. So thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it. And thank you for listening to me ramble on about.
It was fantastic. What a wonderful day. Thank you.
I hope that you've enjoyed this discussion on a dash of salt, a space where you'll always find fresh and current discussions on society and learning today. Season with just the right touch of experts and education and a dash of sociological imagination. Please be sure to like and share this episode. And don't forget to subscribe to a dash of salt on pod bean so that you don't miss the next episode. Thanks so much and we'll chat again soon.