Today's May 19, 2024 and my name is Anna Belle Leiserson. For those who don't know me, I live in Nashville, Tennessee and come to sesshin whenever possible. Plus, I often attend the Center's Zoom sittings and have the good fortune to serve on the web team with John-sensei and Jissai.
So this is a Coming-to-the-Path talk, although it's mostly about returning after being derailed by clergy sexual misconduct.
Before we get going some practicalities starting with clergy sexual misconduct is a very big topic that's not often aired. And I have a lot to say in a limited amount of time. So to stay focused, I must delay addressing three groups I particularly care about. First and foremost are those of you who like me not so long ago, have lost your spiritual communities because of misconduct. It's just so wrong and I plan to blog on how you might go about finding a safe enough new community. Second, surprisingly, I suppose our sexual wanders, sexual misconduct is on a continuum. From extreme predators like the minister I ran afoul of, to those of you who've made this mistake and wish to make amends. This takes courage and I hope one day to tell you about some friends who've done just that. Third are those of you who like me are trying to cope with a combination of Zen practice and PTSD. I found surprisingly little that focuses directly on this so I plan to write an article about what I've learned thus far. This brings me to trigger warnings. There are some about sexual abuse and an attempted suicide. But most relate to clergy sexual misconduct, which is typically more akin to domestic violence than other forms of sexual assault. So the talk deals with intimidation, shaming, gaslighting and public humiliation. First, though, early days, I was born raised and confirmed in the Episcopal Church, but as a child never ran across any obviously spiritual Episcopalians. Certainly no one like Archbishop Desmond Tutu, but when I began Junior High in 1963, my family moved to them Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, and my father got me into the only integrated school in the country, run by Dominican nuns. It was absolutely astonishing that any school was integrated in southern Africa back then. And at times, I've wondered how on earth and nuns managed to do this. My best guess is that their dedication and devotion shown in a way similar to Mother Teresa's, and others just couldn't naysay them. Even I A disoriented 12 year old picked up on the nuns equanimity, at times, following them to chapel like a duckling, in hopes of tapping into the source of this peace. We move back to the States when I started high school. My mother who made a suicide attempt two years later, was largely absent in the hospital much of the time, and my father who loved me dearly had a demanding job, plus he had post-polio at home, he had little energy or time for me. So I was starved for attention, affection. And shortly after my mother's suicide attempt, an English teacher gave me just that, but as also sexual abuse. Looking back, it was for want of a better word bad, but complicated since it met some critical needs. I think this explains why counter intuitively it didn't do anywhere near the damage, which in time sexual harassment would. The other positive of this abuse was a life lesson. The teachers life learned about us and in an oddly kind way, explained to me that affairs hurt other people. Of course, it was sexual abuse, not an affair, but I didn't figure that out until I was 41. That's maybe just as well because in that heyday of free love, a mantra of mine became I don't have affairs, they hurt others. Not to minimize late childhood sexual abuse. This was just my experience. Sadly, years later, I learned of another victim of his who suffered Much more than me. Fast forward to the first semester of my freshman year, mostly I felt lost and unhappy. And the local bookstore became a solace where one day I discovered a book on yoga meditation. I had trouble figuring out how to actually meditate. But around that time my then boyfriend now husband, Alan, got me to come visit him in Ann Arbor. So Ann Arbor in 1970. It was this jaw dropper, an incredible FlowerPower spiritual smorgasbord. All around there were posters for guru this and Yogi that and I was hungry. Plus, Alan was interested too. We dipped into Transcendental Meditation, but that fizzled after a few months. Then I transferred to Michigan and Alan got me to go to a talk about Zen, with someone named Phillip Kapleau. This is the first time since the nuns I could tell the person was the real deal. But Roshi Kapleau has scared me so much I probably would never have started sitting, if not for Allen who somehow got me to join the Ann Arbor affiliate group, which is now long gone. The residents were a delightful bunch, quite different from most college kids and I felt welcomed. A few times I took the train to Rochester for ceremonies or sister sheen. But unlike many of the Ann Arbor members who moved to Rochester, I just didn't see the appeal, as well as being afraid of Roshi Kapleau. Those were the senators, Samurai years. In 1977, we moved to Boston. That could easily have been the end of Zen for me, but there to the center had an affiliate group now also gone. This one led by Peter Greulich. And again I felt welcomed during those years, I went to several sesshin with Tony Packer. But I wouldn't be here today without those two groups. In 1980, Alan and I moved back to Tennessee. By then my commitment to Zen was solid or so I thought. However, we were far away and soon we had two small children plus full time jobs. Practice became catches catch can. Until 1992. That June at work university administration asked me to give evidence against my director, a tenured faculty member for embezzling he retaliated and I began to collapse emotionally. But administration had told me that with a few exceptions, I wasn't to talk to anyone. At the time, we were loosely connected with the Unitarian Universalist or UU Church. The Minister of the church was a bit too flirtatious for my comfort, but he was also smart, funny fellow geek, and one of the only people in town who was supportive of Buddhist practice. Plus I didn't see him that often. Then one evening at a party, he came over to me and asked how I was doing. I said, not good, but I wasn't allowed to talk about it was a welcome surprise when he replied, you can talk with me. The first time we met was fine. But the next one before we settled in, he came up behind me and kind of cornered me. I managed to turn the other way, pretending I didn't notice. Nothing else bad happened. But Thanksgiving, the day before our next meeting, I was in a complete panic. In our kitchen with a rare moment to myself, I realized that since it was a holiday weekend, chances were we'd be alone at the church when we met. That mantra of mine kicked in nonstop a background buzz in my brain. The full version of it was I don't have affairs. They heard other people it was my fault. Suddenly, I registered that last phrase, it was my fault. But by then I read enough that I knew it was typical of victims of sexual abuse to believe it their fault, and I connected the dots. This is actually a relief, realizing that what had happened when I was 16 was not my fault. Also, I could tell the Minister about this which hopefully would stop him from making advances. I still thought he was basically a decent normal guy. That meeting however, was anything but normal. cosmically weird in my book, it ended up being at the heart of the complaint I filed five months later labeled by others who knew more about such things than I did at the time as sexual harassment.
To give you a sense of it, I'll share the parts I feel least uncomfortable talking about. It began with my telling him that I just figured out I'd been abused in high school. He replied, Annabelle, I have to tell you I'm a sex a Holic and recovery. The instant he said that I went into some sort of shock, only kind of half there, though enough to register when he asked if I knew what that meant. I said I'd never heard the word before, but I could guess. Then he asked me not to tell anyone I said, Okay. I must stop here and be clear. He was asking me to keep his sexaholics secret, which was absolutely not okay. And very different from how at the center, we try not to share what happens in dog so on. But back to that meeting. Maybe 20 minutes later, as we were leaving, he said, You know, I've always loved you. I was badly traumatized by them. But God home, went to bed and pull the covers over my head, remaining that way for the rest of the holiday weekend.
According to Reverend Murray fortune, one of the foremost experts on clergy, sexual misconduct, or CSM as it's known at its heart, CSM breaks sacred trust, as best I can tell, that was indeed the core of the trauma I was experiencing. While I'd never thought of him as my minister, I believed that we both cared deeply about our faith that he could help me from that place. And it broke trust in another way. trust in myself, Why hadn't I paid attention to the signals why I kept meeting with him and so on. Coincidentally, three months later, the church's board learned that the minister was addicted to lost his phrase, and called the denominations headquarters, the Unitarian Universalist Association, or UUA. The UUA sent an executive who met with more than 20 women all alleged victims of his sexual abuse or harassment. Before she left, she encouraged a few of us with enough clear evidence to file complaints. But we were all too frightened. Pausing here to talk about my use of the word victim. Labels can be such a trap, so confining especially a label such as victim. However, the minister was portraying himself as, and this is an exact quote, the victim of a man hating lesbian conspiracy. This phrase hit some nerve endings, which I don't have time to explain. It was actually a clever opening gambit in his manipulation of the congregation. Sowing the first seeds of what eight months later would be classified as a level six, level five conflict, level six being more. So me at the time, coping with the word victim, I checked the dictionary and it fit my situation. Plus, it's unnecessary label for formal complaints. Meanwhile, as the church rocketed downhill, most of the other victims quietly disappeared. My solution was to go to 16. When I got to Rochester, I didn't say a word to anyone, not even to Bowdoin Sensei, as he was known then, I thought Zen was for tough silence samurai types, that I should keep my mental problems to myself. Instead, it was practice, practice, practice, and it gave me such respite relief, and a clear sense that I was strong. At home banking on this strength I decided to do as the executive at at had asked and file a formal complaint. I knew it it'd be hard, but I thought I could sit my way through the pain. I also thought if one woman stepped up then it would be easier for a few more wrong again, no one did. They were still too afraid. Looking back at that fear we all shared it was for very good reasons. We humans are social animals. Our need for community is primal. And the vast, vast majority of CSM victims end up having to leave. Or if like me, you stick around. There's at best a constant undercurrent of hostility. While I felt this and occasionally tried to talk about it, well meaning friends thought I was being paranoid and I was afraid they were right. Years later, it was a relief to learn. It's pretty much universal that whistleblowers who remain in the institution are stigmatized. I don't have time to talk more about this, but it was very real and is a big part of why I'm so grateful to have returned to the Sangha. Back to the complaint. A few weeks after filing it, I got a letter from a law firm threatening litigation. I freaked out, but fortunately, Alan's a lawyer, and he said, if they were serious, it would have been an actual lawsuit that the minister was trying to intimidate me. While he did scare me badly for the rest of his life. Actually, I didn't back down. And my solitary complaint was enough so that when an investigating team came to town, all the women who had been too afraid to join the complaint, were able to give testimony with their names withheld from the minister. Meanwhile, the UUA assigned him another minister who acted as his advocate at church board meetings, but they refused to sign anyone to me that the UUA wouldn't give me anyone when he had a second minister on his side was bad enough. What made it worse was that their policy required a victim to speak up, they wouldn't allow anyone else to file a complaint or otherwise deal with his misconduct. Worst of all, long before he started hitting on me, they knew that a he'd been fired from his previous congregation for sexual relations with multiple congregants and B, he was now calling himself a sex a hall like. Similarly, when they eventually found him guilty based on my complaint, they sent the finding to him and the church's board president, but again, by their policy, wouldn't send it to me. Some years later, I realized I was just evidence to them, and they were yet more ministers dehumanizing, not just me, but thanks to their policy, all victims who had the wherewithal to speak up. I'm still angry for several weeks after sushi and I continued to dues as in, but given that many days, it was all I could do to brush my teeth. Within a month that went. There was one particularly bad day when the local paper happened to call hoping to interview me. I desperately wanted my side of the story heard. But my wonderful supporters, including Alan were clear with both the journalist in me that I shouldn't talk with them. A few hours later, I was standing next to the answering machine was the journalists voicemail, and I fold it up in a ball on the floor. I thought it was a nervous breakdown though. By that time my therapist had diagnosed me with PTSD. But I'm a geek, not a psychologist, and it took me years to understand that first, her diagnosis was correct and second, its implications. Expecting myself to sit in these circumstances was like pushing myself to practice with severe vomiting. That's actually what really bad PTSD can feel like to me vomiting up mental poisons of densely packed negative emotions and memories, impossible to untangle, let alone sit with. So I believe Buddhist practice was a never failing lifeline. And home I can see it was trauma obliterating that possibility. At the time this loss of faith felt cataclysmic, like a foundation kicked out from under me. As the months dragged on, there were various nasty incidents but they aren't worth going into with one exception. That was a mass mailing castigating those of us who questioned the minister's behavior signed by something like 20 local ministers and rabbis. I became terrified of clergy. My office was near a divinity school library and when I ran into men in any kind of clerical garb, collars, robes, etc. I'd panic and flee. So I began 1993 with brown hair, but by the end of the year, it had grown in white. Also, I went down six sizes and clothing. The only things that kept me going were Alan, our sweet children and a few dear friends. After six interminable months, the UUA is adjudicators found the minister guilty of conduct unbecoming when I heard the news Is I suddenly felt a weight I hadn't noticed before coming off of my shoulders. Then a few weeks later, the church's board sent the finding to the whole congregation. And I actually felt happy for two days. It ended when Alan told me there have been yet another mass mailing. It was anonymous postmark Boston, where the UUA is located in began, I'm told, with copies of my confidential complaint, followed by the minister's responses to it in which, at some length he portrayed me as deranged and chasing after him. I pitched back into a very dark mind state, powerless to defend myself and paralyzed by shame. Worst of all, I was terrified that maybe some of what he said was true. So it served as both public humiliation and gaslighting. The adjudicators did an investigation of everyone privy to the complaint concluded the minister was responsible and put further sanctions on him.
But my name was now completely breached. So I was shunned at work at church and around town, even at the grocery store. That said, it also gave me license to speak up and tell my side of the story. And with the help of my friends, I slowly found a voice. One of these friends got me to speak at the 1996 General Assembly of you use. My talk was short, I covered how kind people think that when CSM, that's clergy sexual misconduct happens, attention naturally goes to the victims. In fact, the vast majority of attention went to the Minister, the second most of the congregation, and there was absolutely nothing for his victims. No surprise, the talk was poorly attended. But a big surprise it had quite an impact. The US got a grant to address the needs of victims and later formed a panel including me some more on that in a few minutes.
I'm so fortunate that the misconduct wasn't by a Buddhist teacher. This left my attraction to Buddhism intact, if faint, showing up most clearly in big bookstores, where I'd always browse the Buddhist sections. And there one day in 1996, I discovered the first edition of Sharon Salzberg now classic, loving kindness. PAGE 18 floored me it's from a poem by Galway Canal, which goes the bud stands for all things, even for those things that don't flower for everything flowers from within of self blessing. The sometimes it's necessary to reteach a thing its loveliness, to put a hand on its brow and retell it in words, and in touch. It's lovely, until it flowers again from within itself blessing.
The next day I made it as far as the exercise on page 29, which begins in doing metta practice, we gently repeat phrases we wish first for ourselves, and then for others. So I said the first phrase, may I be free from danger. That's as far as I got. I put the book down Florida again, I'd never considered the possibility that I could wish myself to be free from danger. I know that sounds weird. But as my long suffering husband can attest, I have this questionable tendency to charge in where angels fear to tread. About the same time when my mother in law had dementia that was spiraling into depression and shame. I learned of others with dementia who were happy. I also learned that they'd been happy long before dementia began. At the rate I was going I realized if I got dementia, I'd die not only unhappy but angry. So well before it became fashionable. I started my own little Happiness Project. Mostly this meant puttering around coding for the web. But the thing is it started to work. Then two years later, the Dalai Lama and Howard Howard Cutler published the art of happiness. I love that book. It was so in sync with my little project affirming what I learned thus far, have more significance. However, the Dalai Lama in introduced me that to the connection between happiness and compassion. Excuse me. So now, the UUA panel tasked with helping victims of CSM clergy sexual misconduct. once every couple of months, I'd fly to Baltimore with Reverend Mary Catherine mourn the then minister of the church. Walking into our first meeting, I wanted to flee when I learned it was seven ministers and me, but of course I couldn't. And I'm so very glad. At their request for our third meeting, I gave testimony. As I was wrapping up, I noticed that most of the panel looked haggard. They asked if I had to do it over again, would I have filed a complaint? I said, probably not. I knew that meant the Miss conducting minister would likely still be at the church, but the cost had been too high. For too many of us. When I said this, Mary Catherine put her head down on the table crying. Between their grave faces and her tears, it was clear they got it. And I was most grateful, but also kind of stunned. I was long past tears by then and didn't cry for 15 years after that. That part of my heart felt dead. Looking back, I guess it was a survival mechanism, making it possible to function at work and at home. The panel ended with a set of recommendations to the UUA in 2000, the vice president formally accepted them, apologizing to victims, pledging that their failures would be remedied. We all believed it trusting the UAE leadership. But a few years later, I met a current complaint complainant and was horrified to hear how she was being treated. It was clear the UAE had reneged on their promise. I must pause here and be clear that such obstructive behaviors and much worse have been the norm for power mongers in all religious institutions, including Buddhist ones for eons. In other words, this talk isn't a damnation of the you use, though it probably is a power mongering.
Around the same time, I came across a practice called nonviolent communication, also known as NVC. At first NVC didn't work for me, but I stuck around long enough to attend a workshop on the blame free state, which focused on a practice called dissolving enemy images. Enemies a bit of a misnomer, but I had plenty of actual enemies by them. So it worked for me, and as luck would have it, it came to my rescue to two years later. But back to the aftermath of the UUA is broken promises. I despaired much of my healing had come from trusting that what had happened to me wouldn't happen to other victims of UU CSM, but you just never know. And a few years later, two golden opportunities landed in my lap. Candidates for the most powerful positions in the UAE asked if I'd helped with their email marketing campaigns. I said yes, as long as they were willing to help improve processes related to CSM. The first was the US president who won in 2009. But after one phone call, I never heard from him again. The second was the US Chair of the Board who won three years later. Of course, I didn't trust him to carry through either. Wow, did he surprise me. Jim key was a longtime EEO consultant who had a wealth of knowledge about dysfunction and institutions. He was also a self described Policy Governance walk. And as the months went by, I was awed by his skill in getting this large institution to slowly but surely change direction. Jim's first big step was organizing a two day forum that segwayed into a board meeting and included my giving formal testimony. I spent most of the month before preparing, going through god awful long buried documents, and also dissolving enemy images of 30 or so problematic UUA leaders who might run into at headquarters. Doing the enemy image work was astonishing and made a profound difference the five days I was there When I ran into those leaders, I was at ease with them. And I also kept my words as free from blame as I could manage, making it more possible for them to actually hear me. But the biggest thing is, in doing this exercise over and over and over, my heart slowly, very slowly opened, giving me a surprising lightness. And this was the Dalai Lama's book had suggested happiness. But back to preparing for those meetings. In the midst of that sprint, I finally faced the fact that I was burned out. I kept flashing on the way kudzu can be in the south, and invasive that takes over, in this case, CSM taking over my life and identity. Then shortly before I flew to headquarters, talking with an NBC partner, I had one of those aha was, specifically I needed the process of improving responses to CSM to stabilize enough, so it no longer required my unfortunately unique voice. For years, the UUA leadership had managed to silence all former victims who questioned them, except me. I'm quite stubborn, hence my unique voice. So I told Jim, I would give it my all for the next 14 months and bow out completely right after the 2015 General Assembly on July 1, and that's what I did. So July 1 2015, it was the best day is free light as a feather doing whatever I wanted. And I dove back into Buddhism. I read books, listen to podcasts, and even attended an online course. But this left me confused. Which Buddhist practice do you do when and how? It seemed that contrary to my fantasies of practicing solo, I needed a teacher. But how on earth might someone like me find a teacher that I could trust and who would trust me? It seemed an insurmountable barrier. However, as luck would have it, five months in trying to figure out how to spell Bowden Cole he. I ran across a Wikipedia page about him. I read that he was now Roshi, an abbot of the center and had been for many years. I was amazed. I I'd first met Bowden Roshi in 1974. And in all our interactions, he was great. He had good boundaries, acted respectful and clearly knew his stuff. Still, I remained fearful. I had been far from a stellar student one of those fringe people who went to CES even once in a while. Then I quit fly on Earth with the senator take me back. After weeks of dithering, I finally picked up the phone. I'd never met either of the people who feel did my call, but they were kind and easygoing. The second even got me laughing when he called me a strange sheep. Then although we'd never met he said, You should go to sushi.
Crazy. That first machine, it was clear Roshi was indeed the teacher for me. And physical pain aside, I was profoundly relieved to be back on the path. However, to me, the path meant Zen and Roshi, absolutely not the Sangha. I'd been burned quite thoroughly by religious communities to then 18 months and I got an email from the editor of Zen Bo Dhara-sensei. Asking me if I might be interested in writing a piece on taking refuge in Sangha. I thought, you have got to be kidding. Each time I had to chant that line, I was tempted to cross my fingers, fingers. religious communities were the last place on earth where I choose to take refuge. But I've also touched the cheetah hast, that she had that much respect for me when we hardly knew each other. eking out that article, I realized there were any number of ways this Sangha was actually earning my trust that you all were inching your way into that barren part of my heart. And I finally started to cry again. Which brings me to PTSD on the mat. I wish it didn't but it To us, it's hard to put this in words, but I'll try. After four years, the long quiet hours of Cezanne began allowing unprocessed chunks of trauma to come into the light to be aired to be grieved. My best guess is that without zazen these wouldn't have remained sub Rosa somehow contracts because constricting something. And for sure, overall with patients, it's been bringing some release a lightening of old burdens. For example, at the January 20 2216, following John Sensei suggestion to pay attention to the body, I was mowed down by bad memories from high school on earthing anger at myself related to my mother's suicide attempt. Shortly after 16, I dissolved an enemy image of myself, which led to my seeing how badly I'd needed affection back then, and how now I'm surrounded by it, my family, my friends, even our cat, such a relief. However, it's not just as in that makes this much needed grief for us make grief work possible. It's risky for me to do this kind of sitting alone, and you all the Sangha, plus a scale, a skilled trauma therapist make all the difference. You in particular gets the teachers and instructors because even now, when I go into duck, son, or private instruction, I'm often braced for rejection of some sort. But while ducks ons vary a lot, I've never ever since that rejection I'm all too familiar with. In each time, this fierce delay, I think a bit more of that broken trust man's, like a long term medicine. More than that, though, sometimes ducks ons do things like revitalise me when I'm ready to pack it in, or helped me see these old realities through new eyes. The astonishing thing though, is that lately it's also a growing number of others in the Sangha. When my history leaks for one reason or another, everyone in their own unique way responds well. The best example of this came at the end of a conversation I had with Tom Cole, Tom offhandedly mentioned, he'd noticed in my sesshin application that I had requested that I not be assigned a particular shower. He was curious, went and looked at that bathroom and instantly saw the issue a clear window. Then he replaced it with frosted glass. And now he just happened to mention if I was thunderstruck, then I had what psychologists call Backdraft. The distress that arises when we receive care in an area where there's an old deep wound. And this was maybe the third or fourth episode of Backdraft in his many weeks. So on a walk, trying to steady my reeling head around all of these acts that let me know that I matter to the Sangha, I realized, and please forgive my language. These are the exact words that went through my head. Oh, crap. I love the center. I really, really don't want to love an institution
should I do? It seems? Well, so it seems. The Sagas help is indeed never failing the diametric opposite of my take on Sangha when I first returned. This is not to say that the Rochester Zen Center is perfect. Not at all. All institutions have an underbelly, and RCC is no exception. Also, just because the center turns out to be a wonderful match for me, that doesn't mean it's for everyone. Roshi often talks about having an affinity with teachers. In my experience, that's true with communities too. So one last thing. When I left the EU us I'd assumed I'd never again work on this sort of stuff. But Errol, who's been particularly helpful, realized I had enough experience that I might be able to help the senator improve its responses to allegations of SEC real harm. I have what Errol intuited and Jim key kindly labeled a subject matter expertise. Working a bit with the senators leadership, my assessment is that why you've made some serious mistakes. More importantly, you face them, done your best to make amends and change at what to me feels like warp speed. A true expert, however, is Jennifer frayed, who is known for her work on institutional betrayal. Institutional betrayal happens when institutions fail to take actions to prevent or respond appropriately to sexual assault and other interpersonal traumas. It's also defined as a type of trauma that can have severe negative effects on mental and physical health. Such a concise description of not just what I've lived through, but also what any institution including RCC, is at risk of causing. I recently ran across an article of Professor frades, which includes the following. What can we do to prevent an and address institutional betrayal? The antidote is something my colleagues and I call institutional courage. And there are 10 general principles that can apply across most institutions. Reviewing her 10 principles, which actually read his practical steps, my further assessment of the center is that it's a courageous institution in the area of sexual harm. And we can do more. I'm particularly interested in her ninth step, use the power of your company to address the societal problem. How might a Zen Center do this? In talking it over with Jonathan Hager out of my mouth came the most surprising request might I give up coming to the path talk? So here we are. I wish I really wish I had time to close with words from the terracotta which has been deeply inspiring to me. These are a collection of verses attributed to the very first Buddhist nuns oppressed and often traumatized women who expressed their enlightenment with great confidence. But I'm hoping there's time for q&a So here's just the last line of one verse by associating with good people one will be freed from all suffering thanks to the leadership of the Center for your strong support and my giving this talk to the many you us who were there for me for so many years and to all of you in person and online for listening
and we do have time for
one more reading for also people from online can also contribute for the people on zoom there may be a moment of silence Just enjoy that I guess.
jisa Can you hear us Can you hear us we can all right I can't hear you now. Just raise your voices when you ask a question. Here is that okay? Is that okay? Thank you Annabelle for that. I don't have a question as much as the comment I have experienced. World is similar some of what you have experienced in not in not in a religious context, but the sexual harassment in general. Yeah. I want to say that out loud. Thank you and, and how that you know, you bring that to practice and just how common
Yeah, and I see other women in the in the right here nodding every woman in this room I don't know. And some men too in trance
so it's so there that's I guess I was just
yeah thank you for your restarting I got some language framework for from for my experience from what you share. Wonderful. Thank you
somebody say something. Thank you. You're welcome thank you Sensei for all of your help since John-sensei has borne the brunt of the PTSD
you could go next
Okay, can you hear me now? Yeah. Good morning. And thank you so very much for your talk. I hope that he'll cry while I'm talking to you. I really seriously need to be here, to listen to this today. And to listen to you. The first thing I want to say is that I'm shocked that Unitarian Universalist Church would do this to a woman, it's going to take a while for me to to include that in my perception of a bad organization. But I need to remember, it is just a few people in the organization. There were many more love supporters. The second thing I want to say to you is that I needed hear that there was losing one stage as a result of this particular care. Because I came from a community that denies rampant sexual abuse on the part of the shaker head and they still deny it. But listening to you I realized that some of what I've experienced is savage from the institution and then it's possible to use them although it can take a little while. I have to be patient. And my last comment to you is that I hope it sometimes you might be strong enough if it is your destiny to write a book about this 1000s if not millions of women who need
you'd like to have it on your own
thank you so much. Yes, and I felt really bad. There were many more wonderful you you it you use them difficult you use. So yeah. And it was there more that you needed me to respond to this. Oh, I deeply appreciated everything you said. Sir, more you needed me to respond to know
just that. I hope that from time if you would be open to it. I could be in touch with you by email.
Oh, of course. Yeah, absolutely.
I will ask the Zen Center to help facilitate that on your channel it would mean a lot to me.
And to me to thank you so much.
I think my question is about working with fear. How you how you approach that, which is strange kind of a question that you're asking maybe about in, in, in practice how you recognized?
Oh, gosh, I was riddled by fear the previous hour.
And, you know, I grabbed Keith, who's second monitor and yeah, and then. So one of the things I do with fear is just talk to other people, you know. I do that thing that they advise of, you know, trying to just be with it for a while, but my understanding and I'm not a physician or a therapist, but my understanding is if you've got PTSD, it's a lot more than three minutes before that kind of stuff goes away. Yeah.
All right, maybe just one more question, comment, and then we will have to wrap it up. Anything else? Yes. You spoken up when you're in the brunt of your trauma? And then how do these echo chamber have mental issues that it's difficult for you to sit? Because you're in such a bad headspace after he's gotten out of that. And you talked about it a lot of traumas to come up How significant was practice in your ability to overcome your
I think it's, I see the trauma as an opportunity to air because in my case, this was stuff that was, for lack of a better word, just sidelined or maybe stuff, that kind of thing. And it's a really difficult combo, though, in my experience, which is why actually I've talked with Chris Pauline, and I'm hoping to write an article for Zenvo. About ways I've learned to cope with trauma when you're having it while you're sitting. My number one piece of advice is to work with the teachers and the private instructors. They're wonderful. Every single one of them. You might try each of them because they're different. Does that help?
