80x3 Podcast Series: Focusing on Equity to Create Inclusive and Welcoming Early Childhood Environments - Part 2

6:58PM Jan 29, 2025

Speakers:

Narrator

Priscilla W.

Beth Menninga

Angela Claire

Keywords:

inclusive child care

equity practices

expulsion rates

suspension policies

organizational culture

systems structures

parent involvement

behavior plans

trauma-informed approach

mental health consultation

positive reinforcement

staff training

community support

child development

inclusive thinking

Welcome to Inclusion Matters, a podcast about children's development from the Center for Inclusive Child Care.

Welcome to Inclusion Matters a podcast from the Center for Inclusive Child Care. I'm Priscilla Weigel, the executive director, and I'm here today with my colleague Beth Menninga, who is our coaching manager, and we are really excited to continue a series that we have begun and now we're kind of wrapping up through our 80x3 contract with Greater Twin Cities United Way and Beth, we have a special guest today who's going to help us continue on our conversation on equity and so Beth, why don't you introduce our guest.

Thanks, Priscilla. I'm delighted to introduce Angela Claire and Angie and I know each other because we're both members of the Embracing Equity Leadership cohort that is funded through the Greater Twin Cities United Way, and their 80x3 effort. And so we've been talking about all kinds of things related to equity, but one of the things that we're going to talk about today is around some practices in Angie's child care center. So Angie, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself, and then I'll give a little more context to our conversation.

Yeah, I'm Angie Claire. I'm from the Wilder Child Development Center in St Paul. We are a nonprofit child care center that is, you know, has been working with children in the community for over 100 years.

Wow, that's pretty impressive. That's a hard number to beat.

And can you tell us a little bit about the community that you serve?

Yes, we are located in the Frogtown neighborhood of St Paul however, our families come from all over the Twin Cities area, and so we get folks as close as a block away up to, you know, some families that live past Coon Rapids. So we bring families in from all over.

Wow, wow. Well, and the reason we asked Angie to come and talk to us today, other than our connection through embracing equity and thinking about that work all the time at our organizations together, and then thinking about what we're doing in our own organizations is that she has been working with her program, and they've been thinking a lot about their policies related to expulsion and suspension. And I was excited to hear that for lots of reasons, one of which is if you listen to our first podcast, Dr Nicole Evans from Embracing Equity, talked about when we're working in childcare organizations, early childhood organizations, any kind of organization really, we want to think about promoting equity by looking at three levels, and one is taking action on the personal or professional level as as individuals, right? But another is another two areas are really looking at the organization, and one is the organizational culture and climate, and the other is, though, the systems and structures of the organization, and I feel like thinking about expulsion and suspension in early childhood programs is really looking at those two areas, though organizational culture and the systems and structures that we have in place, and then what individuals do to take action about that is another piece of it. And I just wanted to say one more thing about how this relates to equity, and that is that we know that, if you work in early childhood, I hope you know this, but you might not know it, and a lot of the general public don't know it. Children in preschool, pre kindergarten programs are expelled at three times the rate of their peers in the K 12 system, three times the rate. I think part of the reason we don't realize this is happening is we don't always pay attention to the definitions of expulsion and suspension. So an expulsion from preschool is anytime a child is removed or dismissed from the program without a time frame for possibly returning. So they've been asked to leave for whatever reason, and there's no likelihood of them returning. There's not a plan for them to return. And suspension is another thing that I think people don't realize, that's anytime a child is temporarily prohibited or excluded from participating in the child care program or the early childhood program, and that can include, you know, asking mom to pick them up at nine in the morning, or having grandma come only they only come Tuesdays and Thursdays when the family wanted them to come all week. Um, different things like that. So we don't always realize that expulsions and suspensions are going on in our programs. But the otherthing that relates to equity around expulsions and suspensions is that when you look at the data, certain children are disproportionately expelled and suspended. Boys, preschool boys are four times more likely to have this happen than girls. African American children are almost two times more likely than White children and Latino children, four or five times more than Asian children, and also children with identified disabilities, two and a half times more frequently. So we have a problem. We have an issue around equity when we're talking expulsions and suspensions in early childhood, and I'm sure in K 12 too, but we're going to focus on early childhood today. So Angela, why don't you go and tell us a little bit about what got you and your program thinking about this from a different perspective?

Yeah. So I would say, you know, this is, this is something that has been in our frame of mind for some time, and that really came up coming into COVID and post COVID, right? We had a lot of children that were experiencing extra needs for support, and how we were going to meet those needs,especially in a time when support services were not able to be in person with children, and now we have children in classrooms where we normally wouldn't, and we're like, oh my gosh, what are we going to do with these kids that need extra help and support? And so I think that's where our conversation started with our team, to really look at what are the challenges that we're meeting, what are we seeing from children that they need support in and what resources do we have currently to help support that. I think the other thing that came into play was also looking at, you know, our center is NAEYC accredited, and we're getting ready to go through our reaccreditation, and looking at how we are meeting some of these needs for children as well. And so it kind of all came together at once. Whether that was a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. We decided we really needed to take a look at it. And so we started talking to teachers and saying, you know, what are, what are some of the things that we're seeing, what are some of the supports that are needed? And we were dealing with some pretty extreme behaviors from some kids that had been coming in that did not have early childhood experience previously. So maybe they had been at home through COVID, or maybe their care was interrupted, or something of that nature. And so we were really trying to find out, okay, do we need to get our routines more strong? Do we need to have our, you know, predictability more strong? What do we need to do? And so we beefed that up, and that that worked for some, but it didn't work for all. So we're really still in this, this area of, okay, we have a predictable schedule. We have expectations. Teachers are doing really well with promoting the positive, but there's still some kids that are surfacing with needing extra support and help. And so I think with that, we we really wanted to look at, how could we also bring the parents into this conversation? Because we also know that, you know, if you don't have a relationship with the parent, you're not going to have a very strong relationship with the child, right? We've got to be able to build the two to build that support. And so within our parent advisory group, we had a couple meetings about one was just overall child development and where children are faring. And then we shared kind of some of our data of where our children were. And then we also talked a little bit about what happens when some of our children are not meeting the areas that they need to, and what can we do when children need help and support. So that's kind of where we started. And parents were so they were they were over communicative in this this meeting. They had so much to say, it was great, it was great, but it also helped us think, like, okay, when we have a child who is having some, you know, some pretty difficult behavior, and a parent is getting a phone call at work what does that do for the child? What does it do for the parent? Well, for the child, they may learn, you know, if, if I am acting like this, I get to talk to my mom or my dad or my you know, whoever my person is over the phone. Or for the parent, if they're getting multiple calls and they're at work, they might get in trouble with their job because they're getting these multiple calls, and they can't be on the phone at work. And so that's kind of where this conversation started. And we thought, okay, so what are some other things that we can do? And so talking about how we share positives, how we, you know, can have conversations with parents at the pickup time to say, you know, this went really well today. We had one little incident, but we got through this. Or maybe we're still working on, you know, using our words with our friends, or what have you. It worked for some it didn't work for others. So we're really trying to just find the best way to meet everyone's one's needs there, and then I think it was as again, bringing it back to that parent advisory meeting to say, okay, so if we're really struggling, what are some things that we can do? We have behavior plans that we can work on. Here's some things that we could try in the classroom differently. We also have outside resources. So we have a mental health consultant. We have, you know, all these different resources that we can pull in to really see what would work best. And I think that's where the parents kind of, you know, climbed on board with us to say, Yeah, that sounds great. We have a plan. What are we going to do? And then we, we worked out that plan. Tried to see, you know, if we've got a couple kids with some some behaviors that are a little bit harder to manage. You know, what, what is it that we do with them? How can we help support them in the classroom? And so we started having calm down spaces. We started having books that you can use when children need just a time away. We started, we actually had a one of our kiddos really did well with a drawing kit. So they kept a backpack with them, and when they got really frustrated, they could pull out that notebook and those special markers to draw a picture. We tried everything you could think of to help keep those kids in the classroom and in their learning setting. And then had to have a lot of conversations with teachers and teaching staff about what that means, right? Because I was just gonna ask, yeah, yeah. I myself. I am a previous preschool teacher. I was in the preschool room for over 10 years, so I understand, like, yeah, you want me to give them this notebook and let them color it? Well, now they're flipping chairs, or now they're, you know, hurting a friend. Well, how do I do that? I can't give them a notebook when they're trying to hurt a friend. And so I hear that, and I understand that. And so we really worked with the teachers to see, you know, what are those pre event things that we can do? What are those positives that we can put into the climate of the classroom to prevent some of those things? And so some of it might be, you know, I can tell when this kiddo is gonna get really upset. I can tell a couple minutes before, because all of a sudden, there they have a blank stare on their face, or this kiddo just gets up and walks away. Whatever it is that they were able to notice, we pulled that out. We said, okay, if you notice that, so what are we gonna do when we see, you know, our friend that has the blank stare? We're gonna get in and we're going to give some positives, or they're going to come be a helper, or they're going to, right, we tried many different things to help support that.

So Angie, when you say we tried, I'm thinking, if from someone listening to this conversation, when you think about your program, and what I hear you saying is, you're kind of getting everybody to have this lens of, we're going to problem solve this. We're going to keep you know, trying different strategies. So what kinds of things, like, how did you kind of get the word out to teachers about this? I hear the conversation with the parents. Did you talk about it at staff meetings? Did you do like, what are some of the ways that you got that conversation going with the teaching staff.

Yeah so staff meetings for sure, lots of conversations around our staff meetings. And then we did some training too. We did some training with our teachers. We use a social, emotional curriculum at the center called the Incredible Years, and in the use of that curriculum, we have our behavior plans that are in there that we get to put all those positive pieces in that we're talking about. What are these, you know, ways that we're going to pull children in when they need to have a positive. What are these ways that we're going to teach the whole classroom some of these skills? So we looked at that in some trainings to really get some ideas. And then we also pulled in the piece of our training from our 80x3 cohort as well, having the trauma informed lens really lended ourselves to this problem solving, because there's more to a situation than what we just see in front of us, right? So we had a lot of conversation around that, where sometimes there's more to the story than the child just being mad that they couldn't share the car with the person next to them. You know, in more of the digging and the more listening that we've been able to do, that was the case, where we were noticing, like, actually, you know, this kiddo, he, you know, he's upset because he can't share his car. But actually, he's really upset because he hasn't seen mom for a couple days because she's been working overtime, so she hasn't, you know, hasn't been able to be with him, so he's experiencing his frustration in a different way. And so I think that helped us get our whole team on board too, to really look at the bigger picture, as opposed to just the behavior. One of the things that I tell teachers and our team often is that behavior is a form of communication. It's either it's positive or it's negative. It's communicating something to us, and when we see that behavior, we want to pay attention to what it is communicating to us so that we know how to respond.

You know, Angie, as I'm hearing you share about this beautiful process, you know, I'm hearing you support the child with tools, for example, the backpack and the coloring and those things, but you you've done such a good job I think of prepping the team, supporting the team, and giving the educators tools as well. Because I think the idea of changing a process and how you handle a situation that is very emotionally charged. Yes, behaviors, the challenge we know, we all get worked up. The child's worked up, the educators worked up. We're just that just happens. It's It's inevitable. So what you've done with the staff meeting discussions, the conversations, the idea sharing you really helped everyone kind of get that time to have some buy in too. And I think that's so important. And I love the way you pulled in the families to get you know them on board right away, in the in the in the beginning. And as someone listening might be thinking, wow, this is a long process. Yeah, it is, but it's well worth it. From the way I can hear the energy in your voice, I can hear the positivity about just the pieces that you're putting together. So, you know, patience, I think, would be something that comes to mind for me when you're describing this is, it's not going to be an overnight success, but long term, it's, it's those little, tiny steps along this path to better care and and just more joy for the educators.

Yeah, and I think you're right saying that you know you can have this plan in place, and it's not going to go perfect every time. We know that, we've made changes. We've made adaptions. Well, that did not work, we'll definitely not try it that way again. But I think that's learning for the team, and I think it's a great way for us all to be able to give our thoughts and ideas of how we can do this differently and make the impact the way that it needs to be. After all, it really comes back to the kids and what the kids need, and if the kids have what they need to be successful, we will avoid the suspension. We will avoid the hard time going into kindergarten. Children will be prepared and ready to be full beings in their space.

I love that, because I think sometimes when people think behavior plans, they think, oh, that's on the shoulder of the child to change their behavior, right? What I hear you saying is, if this is really about adult behavior and what we do everybody and what I hear you saying is, your parent advisory group is helping you think it through. Your staff are thinking it through. You're thinking it through. The family and child are thinking it through, and it's not going to be perfect, that we're going to make changes as a problem solving tool for us all to support this child. So I love that.

Well and it's a plan, right? It's a plan of what are these things that we're going to do? And you know, it's having the plan. Having that piece of paper is not what makes the changes. It's the implementation of what we said we want to try, we want to do. And then going back and looking at that, you know, looking back two weeks later to say, okay, we tried these five things two of them did not work at all. Cool. Take them off the list. Keep moving with the three that do right? Because then you keep that momentum going of what's working well.

Did you end up changing any like written policies, or was this more..

We did, yes, we did change some of our written policies. Excuse me, to where, you know previously, I think it was, this is before my time and my role. So I'm moving into different things. But previously we did want the help and the support of families in this process to where, you know, it might be, you know, a child would have a parent come in to help visit them in the classroom, for example. So instead of sending a child home asking a parent, you know, hey, could you come and spend the first 10 minutes in the classroom with your child? Because then they get a good start in the morning, they're ready to go, instead of doing a really quick two minute drop off, because they really need, you know, that extra five minutes. So I think we've, we've moved into that more than looking at, you know, this child's having a hard day. I need you to come pick them up, because, again, our children are very smart. They do know what we do. They listen to more things than you know we think. But when a child is showing negative behavior and a parent comes to pick them up, we also see that children learn that they can show that behavior multiple times and they get what they want, which is probably some time with Mom or Dad.

Good point. Yeah. So you've talked about this lot, but I just wanted to give you a chance to mention any other tools that you used, or any other resources that were helpful for you. When I think about someone listening to this who might want to start this conversation in their own program, are there any other things you'd want them to think about or recommend that they take into account.

I would say, take advantage of any of the resources that you have for mental health consultation within your program. We didn't realize how valuable that would be until we utilized that in this process. Part of that mental health consultation is we have a person that comes in and spends time in our classrooms with our teachers to help support them with some ideas of things that they can do in the classroom with kids too. So these aren't kids that necessarily have diagnosable anything. They could just be having a hard day, right? We all have bad days, and maybe they're having a hard time that day and the consultant will help the teachers give some ideas and input of things that you know could be done differently in the classroom. And that's a big support for teachers. Again, like I said, being a previous preschool teacher, you can sometimes feel alone in that where you feel like you're just managing these behaviors alone and no one understands, because no one knows your classroom or your kids. But when you have that consultant that's in that room with you to see what's going on and to see what you're managing or dealing with, they can really help that support with the teacher. So I would definitely recommend that to programs to do for sure.

And that's available through the state of Minnesota, Infant Mental Health Consultation. We also have CICC coaches that can come and do something very similar, and we often work together or piggyback. So yes, take advantage of those great resources out there. They're free, you know, they're they don't cost anything. You can check out our website to find out more about both of those resources as well. Any other thoughts for someone who might be thinking, you know, I really we need to look at this in our childcare program.

I would say, you know, it's, it's a really good process to start and to look through. And when you you look at what your policies are, really looking at, does that fit everyone? Does that fit, you know, everyone that's included in our program?And if you have even an inkling of a no, there's a there's a possibility there that something probably needs to be looked at differently. And that doesn't mean that the program is doing anything wrong. That's that's a big thing that I think came out of ours, was that we weren't doing anything that wasn't okay. It was really just looking at things differently and trying to come up with a way that, you know, how do we help support all families or all children, as opposed to just a blanket policy or procedure.

So truly inclusive thinking about every child belonging yes and every family. I love that view. So any other thoughts about how things are different now for your program,

I would say the big thing that i is the change that I was hoping we would see is that our children and our families and our teachers, we focus on the positive. You know, it's not a one of the dreaded questions I am skipping back, but one of the dreaded questions that I have is, how was your day today? And the reason why I say that is because kids can give a one answer response, and it doesn't really give much,.But what did you learn today? What did you do that was fun today,? And we're really trying to get away from did you have a good day or a bad day? Because all days are good, all days are amazing, and all of our kids have really good days. We have moments, or we have times that maybe things weren't as good as they need to be, but that's okay, because we're always able to fix it and make it better.

That's so beautiful. And for our listeners who don't get the opportunity to see Angie's face as she's talking about all this, she's just, she's glowing, because I can just see the pride and the the support that you're feeling for your team, and also the hard work that has gone into this process to create success. And so it's just so much fun to listen to you share these details, because it's clearly, you know, it's, it's burst out of a lot of time and thinking and and care, and at the center is that precious child who is going to benefit from all this work.

That's who it all comes back to. All comes back to the kids and what they need.

Beth, I know you had a couple more things that you wanted to touch on before we wrapped up.

Well I just, I feel like Angie really reinforced for some great ideas. And one is, this isn't, may sound like, oh, what we're going to think about policies and systems, but first and foremost, this is a mindset. It's a commitment to inclusion for all children, and when you can make that mindset shift and think about it at every level again, of the organization, as we talked about another conversation, that that parent advisory is critical to have that parent perspective. And we know from research that the stronger relationships are positively with parents, the less likely children are going to be expelled. So it's critical from that perspective, but also this is we're serving their children. When parents give us that information about what this is like from their perspective, then we really can make an inclusive environment that meets the needs of all the families and is welcoming to everybody, but also that piece of staff, like, how do we pull everybody in, in this thinking and change that mindset and and it's not a we're going to be successful every time, mindset that it is. We're going to work on this, and we're committed to this, and it's going to take some hard work, and we're going to make mistakes, and we learn from those, and we keep growing. And so I feel like all of those are really powerful messages around this. And then finally, that, yes, we can't do this alone. In any given program supports, there are supports available, both statewide, but even you know in your community, your particular program may have some resources that you can connect to because of where you are, who you're connected to as an organization. But also thinking about those statewide resources like Infant Mental Health Consultation, CICC coaching, you might even want to pull in someone from First Children's Finance or other consultants that are available to help you, because this can have ripple effects all across your program, as you heard from Angie, she wasn't just talking about one little thing. The minute they started exploring this, they started thinking about, how are we predictable with children? Are we consistent? Do they feel welcome here? Do they, do we all see the joy in our daily lives together, and that that's big picture thinking as well as looking at those details of how does this play out for this child every day? So any closing thoughts for us Angie? Or programs thinking about this?

No, I just, I just want to share that it's, it's an amazing journey to be on to just see how we can help support kids and families in a more, you know, helpful way.

Great. Oh, and I wanted to also remind everyone that on our website, we have a preventing expulsion tab that has different buckets of resources there, and we have some examples of some support plans that can help you as you're planning, to set children up for success and work in partnership to move away from what Beth was referring to, about all of the weight being on the child to change that behavior, but instead saying, who's here supporting this child's behavior? How are we all helping this little person move forward to success? There's a lot of other people involved, and so let's pull them all in for those conversations. So we have some some templates and some examples of that, and we're constantly fine tuning that that page on our website too. So keep checking back, because we're adding things all the time. So I just want to thank you, Angie, for Angie Claire, for being here and for the work you're doing at Wilder and for your team, be sure to let them know that we appreciate the hard work and dedication that they are showing to this process. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you to Greater Twin Cities United Way for helping us move forward in this process of getting these podcasts out in the series, out through the 80x3 Initiative. Thank you Beth Menninga for being here and facilitating this conversation as well. Thank you to our listeners, and you can always find more information on all of these topics at inclusive childcare.org Thank you again, both of you, and we'll look forward to another episode of Inclusion Matters very soon.

Thanks for listening for more resources. Visit us at inclusive childcare.org.