BEBS Podcast #6: Equity-based Teen Services Require Authenticity

4:15PM Feb 28, 2024

Speakers:

Linda Braun

LaKesha Kimbrough

Isabelle Briggs

Keywords:

belonging

teens

space

feel

isabel

equity

talking

experiences

library

thinking

work

teams

adults

people

authenticity

authentic selves

linda

love

started

person

Hi, everybody. Welcome to our latest podcast. I'm Linda Brown, one of the pain working on the building equity based summers Babs initiative and I'm here with my colleague, friend, and equity consultant LaKesha Kimbrough lucky shall take us away. Hi,

everyone. So great to be part of this podcast. Again, Lakeisha Kimbrough equity consultants where this project, and we've had the amazing opportunity to have glorious conversation with Isabel Briggs around what's it mean, to support and work and walk alongside teenagers? Isabel? What are you my

name is Isabel, I am the Arts and Culture Program Coordinator for LA County Library. Previously, I have worked with teens for seven years or something like that, and I was a Team Services Librarian when I started Bev's in 2020. We're really

happy to have you here. Isabel, it'd be great if you could tell us a little bit about your teamwork, playing

2020 and during 2021. And, like, I felt very strongly that I needed to use the, you know, my platform as a teen librarian to have a lot of political opinions and to share those political opinions. They were not neutral, but they were like, in I was like, this is in the interest of the world that these people who I work for are going to have it. So I sorry, I don't know, maybe that's a little rambley. But like that, like, it's not like, oh, I don't know, like and I did, like the library should speak out about certain things or something. And it's like, well, now because this is an issue that matters who these people who I'm serving, and so it's an issue that matters to me, I don't know. Well,

you are advocating you are being an ally, and you are being an accomplice. Right? And when we think about what does that mean? It means really being a good ancestor. Now, even though I'm here, like I'm creating, helping to support the creation of something that's sustainable and nourishing, and, and more just right.

Something I heard about a lot is like, teen services in, in my mind was like, total sublimation of the ego, like I am nothing I have no, like, this is not, it's the most. For me, it felt like such a rich experience of like, I don't know, anything, I don't know, what is cool, or what is important, or what anyone's lives are like, like, I am just here to like, listen and learn and like, be told that I am lame, and like, not funny. And then I wear weird clothes. And I'm like, Fine, take it, I'll take it, I'll take it like, whatever. I just want you to feel like your voice, like, your opinion matters or whatever. So I don't know, it's just like, the way that and that's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to like, be especially in a professional setting. Like we are like, as librarians like, we're professional, like, this is our job. And my job is to like, sit at a desk and and just be like, the dumbest person in the room and be like, I don't know, tell me, I have no idea. Like, what's your life about AI? I'm not gonna tell you anything about me. What do you think like, that is a weird place to be in. It requires a both and are something of like, I You are your stories, the only thing that matters right now. And who I am is irrelevant, kind of. I mean, it's not because you have to, like know yourself and examine who you are and where you're coming from, and what prejudices or narratives you have, but at the end of the day, it feels like there's sort of a, like a flattening of your self and that you need to engage with and that's to really be able to listen and and to and to and to serve.

As well as you were just saying that I think there's something really key there about everything we talked about in beds. When you're building the practice is you in order to achieve what you were talking about with teams. You had to have trust and relationships with that, right. And so in order teams, some teams and I don't want to sound like be one of them. Negative risers, others have teens. But any anyone will say bad things to your face, right? Like sometimes, like just people sometimes are mean.

People, right?

That when you work with teens, if you have trust and relationship with them, you can have a conversation about some of those things, right? So it might not be that they tell you your clothes are weird, you might not have a conversation about that. But you might like if you've trusted relationships, you don't take it personally. And you go like, yeah, I bought this here. And I thought it looks sort of cool or whatever. And you can also relate that conversations with teams, when you hear things being said that maybe you know, let's think about that. Right? Let's think about what you just said, who you said it to how you said it, right? You can't do that unless you've built that foundation. And it has to be a foundation for all of the teams one works with and when they trust you, they can say things and they can trust you that if you're going to say something you're going to have a conversation about it's not just don't ever say that again.

I feel like anything. Yeah.

Oh, it is a curiosity thing. And they also have to see us be vulnerable, though, in order to build that trust. Right. Yeah, they have to see us and hear us say, Oh, I messed that up, y'all. I'm sorry. Yeah, Dr. Ball, I really apologize. This is how I'm gonna work to do better. When they tell us that something we said or did made them feel excluded or, you know, cause some other type of harmful feeling. And we cost harm. We apologize for that. We don't make excuses. We don't we don't give the fake apology that says, if I'm sorry, if you felt that way, that's not morality, that puts the onus back on them. And we're not demonstrating taking accountability. Right. So those apologies that don't say if and or but unless the and is and I'm going to work to do better. Right? Right. So they they have to see us be vulnerable in those ways. And part of that vulnerability comes in that power sharing comes in admitting we don't have all the answers. We don't know all the things we don't know the latest, maybe we do know the latest song, but you know, whatever it is, can we do the latest dance with them without you know, so, but whatever it is allowing them to see, we make mistakes, and we try again, allowing them and as Linda said, to see that we will lovingly and graciously hold them accountable. Let's have a conversation about that, that when you said that this is how that sounded to me. This is how that felt. And I'm curious what how it felt for others in our space right now. Let's explore that. Right without judging them without shaming them. Because we know judgment and shame don't work. Not not if we're working towards equity and liberation and just transformation. Um, they don't work for those things.

Also making me realize something you said Lakeisha is also about, we need to be our authentic selves. And teens need to have the ability to be their authentic selves when interacting with the library. It's thinking about more than that outward. And like this light bulb went off in my head. And it's super interesting to me, because I'm realizing like, I think that if we said, you know, your authentic selves routines that people would feel at Yeah, well, I like manga. So I wear I have blue hair. It's that's a little authentic. Right? Yeah.

I told I mean, gosh, I totally agree. And I think surface stuff like that is like, think like, it's Scott. Right? It's got to be deeper authenticity than just like, what's up guys, I'm wearing a backwards baseball hat or something like that. Like, it has to be emotional authenticity. And, and some of that, I think a big part of that is talking to teens, like their adults is like a huge thing. I mean, I think that's like becoming more common practice is like, talk to children and teens like they're adults. And, and share with them like, who you are and what your opinions about things are and be like I was thinking this am I wrong? What do you think about that are like being an intellectual being having like being curious having sharing your own thoughts and And asking for their feedback and treat them like people is about

what you're describing?

Do you mean like, not like, what other alien thing

you're describing? Like, how do we bridge to get from other of them. And I think a lot of what, what has been said is being your authentic self and showing up and modeling and all these things bridging, so that we can really say, actually, we're all human. We're at different stages of being human. And along with being at different stages, comes different experiences, different developmental things. And it doesn't mean that you're lesser than me, because you're a teenager, right? It means we're at different stages of being human.

I think being that like having that sort of deeper authenticity. And that vulnerability allows you to work with people who, again, like might have very different experiences than you did, like it allows you to be to show up for more people, I think, as opposed to like, yeah, like, I have a quirky haircut. And that is meant to signal that I'm cool to the other kids with quirky haircuts, like, I don't know, that's the surface level sort of authenticity, but like, when you are more just yourself than like, then you can connect on those things that all of us have in common all teams have had in common and, and like, you're not just you can I think, make, yeah, just make connections with people who who are different from you who might not have the same stuff to talk about. But I just feel like yeah, that when you sort of put on the trappings of like, I'm a Korean person like that, actually sort of, like, makes you more niche than just being yourself and being like, Hey, I'm going to be emotionally vulnerable with young people, because I think that they're humans and adults. So yeah, yeah. Yeah,

yeah, as you're talking about that, as well, like how freeing is it to just be to be myself and to co create a space brave enough for me to be myself. Because there aren't all of those spaces where we always feel like we can show up as fully ourselves as as we would like to. And it takes bravery and shared space, it takes co creation and CO maintenance, right. And so to do that with teams also helps them lean into the ability to create and maintain those spaces. And then they get to say, Oh, wow, I can, like be free in this space. I can mess up in this space. I can laugh in this space, I can cry in this space. I can learn and grow in this space. I can have moments of regression in this space, and come back from that, by all of those things. I'm super curious Linden, Isabel, Isabel, how did you come to this awareness? I know you mentioned like, during the pandemic, you were like, wait, I really like 2020 2021. I want to think about how I'm really engaging with the young people, the teens in my community.

Yeah, thank you. I think, I think it was actually earlier than that. I started working in teen services in my hometown of Baltimore, and I'm from Baltimore. It's my hometown. But I was working, I was working in a library branch that was near to where I went to high school, like it was a very familiar neighborhood, but also Baltimore's majority black city, and I'm white, and very early on in my time there, like, I think, I can do answers like I have, I might be from the city and have gone to high school down the street, but I have a very different experience than a lot of the kids who I'm serving here, and there's nothing in the world I can do to make myself more like I can't change who I am or my past or where I come from. So I can't make myself a different person. But like, all I can do is just kind of be who I am. And I think that they'll respond to who I am. Hopefully. Regardless of like, I can't try I can't like I'm not trying what am I trying to say? The more I if I try harder to be cool olor or to be someone I'm not, or like, that's just not going to be authentic, that's not going to connect with people. I don't know. So I think that that was maybe when I first started thinking about just like, you have to just be yourself like, just you can't. Like you can't make up for it you just are who you are you have the experiences you have and you, but like, what are your strengths and just bring your strengths to it, I'm funny and silly, and I don't mind being like the making a fool of myself, because then all the awkward teams around me are laughing at me and not at each other. And like, that's a skill I have, I can do that. And I can do that for anybody, regardless of where you're from. So I think that like that, and then starting my work after grad school, like similar vibes of just like, I'm now I'm in California, all right. I don't have anything to connect with these California kids. Like, I'm not from the same place they are, but like, I just gotta, I just gotta be myself and be curious about them and be curious about them and like, let them tell me about themselves. And so I don't know, I think that's maybe why like, how, where am I? How am I sort of past has informed that approach because I'm trying to put myself every day in like the headspace of a teen I think what I when I thought about being in that headspace of being a teenager was the realization that like, the most, I think one of the most important things, experiences you can have as a teen is meeting an adult who cares about you, who is not your mom, or not your dad or your teacher or your family member or something like that, like having a friend who's an adult, like I can think of adults, I knew when I was a teen who I thought were so freakin cool. And I love them. And I look up to them, and like, they were and they were not my teachers or not my parents are. And like those. And those, the commonality in those adults was that they treated me like I was an adult too. And it made me feel so much cooler and bigger and more confident. And so like, I think that was something I was always trying to like, that was the effect I wanted to have is like, thinking about who I was, as a team, that was a critical thing. I want to give that back. And I want to be that, like, random lady at the library who's like, really nice, and like talks to me a lot. And I can just go sit at her desk and like, shoot the shit. I don't know if I can say that. And just, you know, it was chat. And I think I, I think I achieved that I do in my time, especially at my last job where as a team I burned like, I felt like I started to get that word like there are these teens who would come around, and sometimes they would talk to me, sometimes they wouldn't, but they liked being in the space and being near me and like we could be side by side and be comfortable. And like this is this is it like this is the thing happening. That is so that can just really be a I surrender now I think it's you hold on to those adults from your childhood, who who saw you anything, that's what you want to give as just like, maybe we're very different. Like I said, maybe we're not from the same part of town, maybe we've had very different experiences, privileges in our life, all of this sort of stories, but like, let's just like be in the space together and just be comfortable with each other and just like see each other for who we are and, and, and be authentic.

You said be seen and I think the whole time that you were sharing all I kept thinking that all a big thing I kept thinking was visible is really describing the power of being seen the power of validation, the power of acknowledgement and all of those things are so important and feeling like I belong in a space and belonging is critical. inequity is not separate from equity it is actually the heart of equity.

Well, I'm thinking I heard as well being seen as well like that was very powerful and then location when you just said belonging because it is foundational to equity. However, this is another thing where I think library staff don't understand what that really means. Right? Like what is and you said what you said about belonging with part of it is being seen. I don't know if the library staff person would say that's what belonging is right? Like i i And I could be totally wrong and I apologize to all our listeners. I'm just wondering like if we were to say what What is belonging? What does that look like? How do you create belonging out? I don't even know how to describe it because it's it is a little abstract, right? To help someone feel like they belong. However, being seen not just having the space and being welcoming, it's being seen in the space in the community that makes a difference, right? And I'm super curious. That's why I was making that face is because if we're talking about team belonging in the library, what is then I don't even know if I could break it down. Because I know it's not space and being friendly. So

interesting. Linda, that was really, I think, maybe I was audibly saying, when you said that, because I, I think that that is possibly true in many spaces. And it might look or feel different in men in different spaces. And I think that that is really true, especially when I'm gonna come back to the intersectionality. Especially if a team is a team of color is a teen is a, as a female, identifying teen of color is a female identifying queer neurodivergent teen of color, right? isn't enough color, who says family is experiencing economic hardship, right? So what it might mean for to create and sustain a space that nourishes belonging means then, if that's the ultimate goal, or a component of the ultimate goal, what are we doing in our spaces to ensure these various, that various lived experiences can show up, and Melissa Stanton, who does equity work in Minnesota has a formula that she has developed that she uses to describe belonging, but this is the formula Melissa Stanton says that belonging is made up of this formula connection, less trust, less autonomy, plus attunement, plus love. So if I feel like I can have meaningful connections, moments of connection with someone, or in a space, is there is are those connections, less I can trust the people in that space, I can trust the person who's holding that space. Plus, I feel like I have some sense of agency of control. Right. Plus, so not like, if or and like, all these things have to come into play. So then Plus, there are there is some acceptance of my values and my beliefs, and in some areas, some alignment of those values and beliefs, even if, if I come to them differently than someone else. And even if mine are different than I'm still held, and respected for my for those differences. And then there's just a genuine love that I exist in this world, whether you agree with me all the time or not. And that's Melissa Stanton's formula for belonging and I think, authentic belonging, like when we really feel accepted for who we are, it actually promotes a sense of psychological safety, and allows us to feel valued. And so, you know, at underneath all of that is, is then how are we doing that in our library spaces and via our library services?

I think that is I love that dissection of what it what the facets are that you need to have in place, right. And so how do you bring and it's super interesting how they intersect, and you can't just say, well, we're we have a good sense of belonging, because we're authentic or whatever, right? You have to have all of those things to help a teenager or whoever you're working with, know that they truly belong, and that you're not going to. Because I think sometimes the fear of people is that well, I've got this trusting relationship and behind me now, but what if I screw up? Right? What's going to happen? And that's I think, one of the reasons why you have

all of those together. And if we screw up, we have a system for repricing, right because we were a mess that the teams will mess with We will not. And what is that system of repair? Because I think I think that's also a key component of belonging is knowing I can mess up. Yeah. And that, that there will be an opportunity to repair. Yeah. Right. And that's that's critical and equity work as well in our equity journeys.

Something that that made me think about too, that I wanted to circle back to something I thought about earlier was like, example, will I tried to get teens to participate? And they did. And that, I think, speaks to i, what was I thinking about? I was thinking about, yes, that that's true. That happens all the time. You're always trying things and they're not working. And I feel like there's frequently it's more comfortable when that happens to give up. But I think that with, with teens with equity, with justice, with all of these things that we're talking about is like that, being in the middle ground and being in a place of like, we can't, we're not we haven't perfected this yet. But we have to keep going. And we have to keep trying. And a metaphor that I always thought about in teens services was it's like building a fire. And you don't just I think this is a quote that a coworker gave me from like David Bowie or something where he was talking about I don't know, I'm gonna paraphrase something that he made, he said, but like, you don't just if you try to start fire, you don't just like give up after the first time you're like, Well, I tried to start fire I guess I'm not going to have that warm. Like you keep you keep that Ember burning. You keep that little spark, you add to it slowly and slowly, and you don't give up you have to keep sort of the thing alive and keep blowing on it and, and it might take a really long time to get anything started. But that that I don't know. And there's something there about about being in that space of like, well, we have something but it's not perfect, but we're trying we can't give up on it yet. Because this matters and I think about like belong if the goal is belonging, equity and teens, here's like you can't give up on it. You have to kind of keep that fire going. That seems

like a really perfect way to end this podcast. Thank you, Isabel for talking with us today. That was amazing. And I think we will have to have you come back. Bye, everybody.