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S2E22 neurodiversity-in-the-workplace

Natalia Sobery23min

Kristi Glesne

00:03

The term neurodiversity was just coined in 1990. neurodiversity describes basically just how a person's brain as a result of natural variations, processes communicates, and behaves differently than what has been considered typical or neurotypical. Basically neurodivergent. People just think differently. And now we have words and practices and sciences. Now that we've never known before, to apply to these things,

Steve Fast

00:31

globally, one in five people is neuro divergent. This can take a number of forms, and it can also affect the way that somebody does their job. This is random acts of knowledge presented by Heartland Community College. I'm your host, Steve fast. Today, we're talking to two job coaches, people that helped develop sessions to improve workplace conditions and performance in a variety of settings. One of the topics they teach about is neuro diversity in the workplace, and how managers and co workers can help get the best performance from a neurodivergent staff.

Christina Schultz

01:05

Hi, I'm Christina Schultz. I am the Director of Business and Industry Solutions at Heartland Community College and for the purposes of supporting neurodiversity in your workplace. I am an advocate for this topic, and a colleague to Kristi Glesne, who will introduce herself in just a minute, so that we are together, presenting this topic to the community for the first time for both open enrollment and also custom training purposes.

Kristi Glesne

01:34

Hi, I'm Kristi Glesne. I'm the Associate Director for Business and Industry Solutions at Heartland Community College. In for good purposes of this topic, I am the facilitator and creator of the neurodiversity supporting neurodiversity in your workplace, professional development open enrollment course that will be offered in May. And we'll be presenting with Christina at the Business Solutions showcase in April.

Steve Fast

02:00

So first of all, on this topic, let's define neuro diversity.

Kristi Glesne

02:05

Neuro diversity describes basically just how a person's brain as a result of natural variations, processes communicates and behaves differently than what has been considered typical or neurotypical. Basically, neurodivergent people just think differently.

Steve Fast

02:24

So what are some of the most common types of neurodiversity? neurodiverse conditions

Kristi Glesne

02:28

can be anything from Autism Spectrum Disorder, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, there are numerous conditions, Williams Syndrome, sensory processing disorder, and the list goes on and on and on.

Christina Schultz

02:45

For us. neurodiversity is very much a part of the inclusion focus that many of us are having in not just our community, but also in our organizations and workplaces. And so for us, neurodiversity is a really important part of equity, diversity and inclusion, and one that sometimes we forget to give quite enough attention to, which is why I'm really excited that Kristi developed a whole PD session just around that

Steve Fast

03:11

if somebody has a physical disability, such as sight or hearing, or some other thing that would require an accommodation, usually, that is identified and then people in the workplace then figure out a way to accommodate that person. But that might not always be the case with neurodiversity, I would assume

Kristi Glesne

03:29

correct, people who are neurodiverse, or nerve divergent, are often on a spectrum. So those conditions can be very, very mild. And people can cope with those conditions, just on a day to day basis with habits that they have employed on their own, or they can be more severe, and need some kind of accommodation to be helped them in their workplace. So the depending on the severity, or the place that they are on the spectrum, accommodations may be needed in the workplace.

Steve Fast

04:02

So how do managers and co workers start to educate themselves about neuro divergent employees other than of course, going to these sessions that that we're talking about here, one of the foot or some of the first things that folks should do to try to have an understanding of a neurodivergent workplace.

Christina Schultz

04:21

I think that really comes down to relationship building, getting to know your co workers, I think it can start as soon as exploring a candidate's interest in a position where you start to ask questions and you start to learn about what helps you be motivated. Tell me what challenges you What do you need in a good manager and so you start to learn through building a relationship between not just people who report to one another. So from a supervisor to employee back and forth but also coworker to co worker. You start to really learn how people learn what people's preferences are, how people's communication style Are and so because and Kristi please correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of the because neuro divergence back to Kristi's example of the definition of being what people who think differently, you're not always going to see it in a physical manifestation. So it's going to be about learning how people approach their work, how people manage their work, how people manage the relationship to time, deadlines, help people manage their relationship to technology. And so much of this comes out in your day to day work relationships anyway. And what we're like we always do, when we talk about anything in the world of professional skill building, is we're always encouraging people to go with a greater sense of self awareness, intention proactivity, right, how much more can I know about myself? How much more intentional Can I be in getting to know other people? How can I start to anticipate needs that people have of me and needs, I have to provide support to for others, and as proactive away as possible, so that we're not just chasing issues when they become problems or challenges. So for us, it comes back down to getting to know folks, people may or may not share this information. Remember, with five generations in the workplace, not everybody even knows. They're neurodivergent. And that hasn't has a name. So I'm Kristi again, you can tell me if I'm wrong about that. But some people may not be able to say, Kristi, I have ADHD, if you're of a certain generation that was never available to you. So you won't be able to say that. But you could say, I really struggle when you only check on me. Two weeks after giving me an assignment, it would work a lot better. If you asked me every week how I was coming along helping me chunk out the work, I'd be more successful than getting a whole month of work by myself and then find out I needed help.

Kristi Glesne

06:43

That's absolutely right. Yes, we're just looking at words and practices in science that we've known all along that now we have words and practices and sciences, now that we've never known before to apply to these things. So it's new to us. The term neurodiversity was just coined in 1990. So it's a new thing to us.

Christina Schultz

07:03

To your original question, Steve, the same practices that organizations are doing any way would certainly apply to the situation. How are you getting to know your candidates to decide who to hire upon hiring? What is your process for onboarding and training? Upon having reached certain milestones of in people's positions? How are you sitting down to give feedback, encouragement, coaching, and so it should all fit into the natural life cycle. But to the point about, can we help people do a better job of pinpointing specific types of support that correlate with specific types of neurodiversity, you absolutely just need somebody to bring it to the attention of other people. Because again, we all usually want the same thing at work, to get the work done as positively and productively as possible. We'd all love to not dread going to work. We'd all love to feel like we were recognized and affirm for the work we're doing. And so nobody has any reason to not be interested or open to doing more when they know more. So we just need someone to go first with Hey, I think there's something we could do here, I think there's something we need to better understand. And so that's really what a session like this is doing is here, it is something you can take back to your organization and just introduce the conversation, introduce the topic like you would anything like you would with any other, Hey, there's this new thing. It's called PowerPoint, hey, there's a new thing, you know. So it's another new aspect of bringing improvement to the organization. So we just just need some early adapters to bring it to everybody else.

Steve Fast

08:42

So as you mentioned earlier, there is quite a spectrum of neurodiversity. And I would guess that there are not a number of one size fits all tools or methods that a manager or co worker can apply. But by that same token, there are different accommodations that one might not think of. So I wonder, Krista, can you give any examples of like a scenario where a manager can either coach or perhaps put a neurodivergent employee in a position to succeed just through some form of accommodation, whether it be reorganizing something, or maybe even providing something out of the norm of what every employee would or wouldn't do in the workplace?

Kristi Glesne

09:27

Sure. There are varying levels of accommodations, some that are no cost or low cost, such as flexing the day schedule of how whether somebody comes in earlier in the day to avoid distractions or noise in a in a factory to start earlier in the day when the machines aren't running as much so it's a little quieter, or they may come in earlier in the day so that they can have less lights on in a building so that they're not as visually distracted by stuff. relation of the lights and I'm in a building, they might have somebody with ADHD who needs a fidget toy or needs to move around more, take more frequent breaks during the day, that keeps them more focused and on task where they're able to chunk it, like Christina mentioned chunking work, where they're able to break their tasks down into smaller pieces. Those are some accommodations that can be employed that don't really cost anything that just involve little things. It could go as far as having somebody that needs a service animal to help them navigate through their day, that obviously isn't a no or low cost accommodation. But like we said, there's, it's related to the spectrum of needs there spectrums, again of accommodations.

Christina Schultz

10:43

One thing that's also really important, that's low and no cost, which is what we really want to try to emphasize with people who come into learning environments that we host. One has to do with blur words, and just becoming really intentional, specific with the language that you're using. So for example, if I say, a good job, Steve, and you're supposed to know what that good job was, and now you're left spiraling into what was the good job? And when was the good job? And and what does good mean? And would I be able to do it again, when how what what do I what happened? How do I fake it so that she doesn't get upset if I don't do a good again? So like, instead of sending you on some kind of spiral, what's going to happen within a diverse individual? I could be Steve, when you got to meet with an answer. So soon after me, sending out the inquiry, we were able to provide excellent customer service in a timely manner. Thank you, all of a sudden, you're being more specific, you're not leaving things too blurry, you're not leaving things too vague. And guess what? That works for everybody. Even non neurodivergent people benefit from extremely specific feedback and specific words and the avoidance of blur. So a rising tide lifts all boats, if we are more intentional and more mindful of what are the parameters of optimal work, it's going to benefit an entire work environment, not just any particular one individual.

Steve Fast

11:59

How hard is it applying some of these the mindful approaches across the workplace? I think that there are certain attitudes that sometimes arise that people feel that everything should be, quote unquote, fair in the workplace, if one employee gets one thing, the other person should have the same offer. And it shouldn't be completely in their minds equitable. But when you're dealing with some buddy that needs some sort of accommodation, or somebody that is neurodivergent, in a way that another employee might not necessarily empathize with off the bat, they might think somehow this person's you know, they look they they missed all these deadlines, they did all these things. They can't come in on time, and they're getting special treatment. It's okay for them, but not for me. How do you address that to really understand how to create an inclusive office. So everybody understands the reasons.

Christina Schultz

12:49

It's really important in situations to separate out what is inclusive and equitable from what is or isn't accountable. So cultures that are low on accountability culture that don't hold accountable practices and standards, you're going to have perceptions of unfairness, you're going to have perceptions of favoritism, you're going to have inequity, you're going to have the haves and the have nots. And so I would just caution that around the time that you're thinking, an accommodation for somebody's performance, to be set up to be as successful as anybody else's performance, like accommodation is about equity, feeling like something isn't fair or something, there's a haves and have nots, that could really be about choosing not to be as accountable as you need to be. And so for example, I would say, if you've got someone who doesn't have a good performance record of on time, attendance to Kristi's earlier point, if you agree with your employer, I have sensory issues where if I come in at the same time everybody else comes in, and it's noisy, and it's distracting, I can get off my game. And it takes a long time to regain that. And I'm not productive, if I could just come in an hour after everybody else so that I have a quiet distraction free way to get straight to my work zone. And then I can be completely productive, that would be great. And that the employer and the employee come to that term of agreement, and that employee misses that agreed upon time and has an attendance issue. That's not about accommodation that's about now holding someone accountable to a work practice. So I do think we just have to remember when we think about accommodations, not to loop everything in as if everything is equal to everything else. If you really have a feeling that you're someone's getting away with something and you're not, that may not really be about accommodation as much as something else that's going on in the organization that needs attention.

Kristi Glesne

14:41

I think it's important that the people in the organization understand what it is that an accommodation really means and that an accommodation is there for those who have a disability to perform an essential function of their job and that they are able to enjoy equal benefits and privileges of employment. And if without the accommodation, they don't have the ability to perform their job as well as somebody else, because of their disability. And with the accommodation, they're able to, if there's a barrier in between them and their ability to perform their job, and the accommodation, destroys that barrier, then there's no issue of what's fair and unfair, it's just breaking down a barrier. And so I think that the understanding of what the meaning of an accommodation and the intent of accommodation is, would help with the elimination of that feeling of fair and unfair.

Christina Schultz

15:38

I think, for example, if you think about work setup, let's say, Kristi has indicated she has sensory processing issues, and she needs noise cancellation headphones. And so she's able to get noise cancelling headphones, and I'm sitting one cubicle over. And I say that's not fair. I think the organization does have to make room for a rising tide lifts all boats, if noise cancellation headphones is useful, because of the way the office is set up with limited noise management capabilities. And people are in an open office setting and they can't control the volume around, heck, give everybody noise cancelling headphones, and let them figure out when and how they're used appropriately. And then that way, you can easily decide the person making the request might be describing a conflict with productivity, that could be somebody else's conflict with productivity, and then you can handle it with actually, that's something more than one person could benefit from, if that makes sense. A lot

Steve Fast

16:38

of the things that both of you are bringing up, I think really do apply to. And maybe it's because you know, you had mentioned Kristi, that neuro divergence is got a name in the 90s, you know, not all that long ago. So maybe some of the issues we see that have been applied for general management techniques apply, because we've always had a neurodivergent workplace, we just didn't recognize it as much before. But it really does seem like a lot of these approaches really come down to a more personalized management style. And I wonder, you know, this steps a little bit away from our specific topic, but it gets into so much of the things that you are doing with these professional development courses is, are we seeing in today's workplace, a need for a more personalized management style? In general?

Christina Schultz

17:28

Absolutely. Absolutely. All the data and the and the research is really clear. And this is before COVID, during COVID, before the great resignation after the Greek people now in the 21st century workplace expect their individuality to be seen, recognized, put to use and affirmed period. And so it is I love your phrase personal management approach and person. I mean, we're gonna have to borrow this Kristi when we listen to this podcast, write that down, because we're going to use

Steve Fast

18:00

trademarked I get a penny trademark, Steve? Yes,

Christina Schultz

18:02

you're absolutely right. And I think that's probably what's, you know, we talked about there being five generations in the workforce simultaneously right now. And there's a lot of understanding in progress across the generational pieces. And it's not to say, all the generational stereotypes are true. So clearly, that's not what we're trying to say. But in the sense that there can be really different ways of coming to work based on all of that you have inside you, right? Kristi talked about linking new to known. So for those of us who have a lot of a time and experience under our belt, we have a certain way of seeing the world, fresher eyes, newer voices of presidents in different industries have a different way of coming to work ready to learn and contribute. And so it's really important now, both because we have science and words and knowledge we didn't have before, but also because we have this incredibly diverse, professional world. And pretty much every industry, you can't really get away from needing to be expecting and appreciating a diverse workforce. And so you're going to have to get to some individuality getting to know people so that you can break down the barriers of unconscious bias. We talked about in a previous conversation on unhelpful and unfair stereotypes and the like.

Steve Fast

19:19

So you mentioned in their COVID and coming out of COVID, that having a factor on the workplace. And one of the major things I think everyone is seeing is the emergence of remote work during we all had to do it whether we wanted to or not, whenever it was possible, except for the folks that really, you know, we're out there keeping the lifeline going with the supports and the service industry jobs that could not be done remotely. But now, as we are seeing the day to day life, go back to what we thought would be pre COVID remote work has become a big issue and it is also something that a lot of workplaces are grappling with how much should our employees wear work remotely if they want to, if at all. And this is something that is this another tool, I would think that when assessing diverse workplace of potentially neurodivergent employees, some of these things that you talk about having issues with external sound controlling your environment, timing of showing up because of your environment that could be solved with a remote work environment. In other cases, I would imagine it might not be like ADHD, maybe more distractions, if you're working remotely. So is that something that enters into how employers are looking at managing a neuro divergent workplaces?

Christina Schultz

20:37

That's one really important piece, the advent of technology has really opened up spaces for Neuro divergent employees to be able to come out into the open about their neuro divergent needs. Because Steve to the point I made earlier, we've always had neurodivergent people, but was the world always welcoming of that? Probably not. Adult neurodivergent people in the workforce have every reason to hide and or minimize what they were experiencing? So that nobody found out? Yes, they did. So this is really new, that not only do we know how to talk about it, and we know how to accommodate it. But we're also saying it's really, really okay to mention it. And oh, by the way, our workforce might actually be better, because you're here because your talents and your abilities and your contributions are so valuable. This is completely a new day, I think. And it's been going on for a while. So it's not like today isn't a new day, but like compared to generations previously, it technology, we have to think so much for making things possible, the kinds of talk to text, the kinds of keyboards, the kinds of ways of getting input into a technological framework. It's not just about typing with two hands anymore. I mean, there's so many more ways of getting your work done. And we have so much to think technology for so that people of all kinds can really find meaningful work and make that contribution and be part of the workforce. So Kristi, please, please take that and move it forward.

Kristi Glesne

22:01

You're absolutely correct, Christina, it's really opened the doors for a lot of people that otherwise might not have had an opportunity in the workforce.

Steve Fast

22:08

Well, I'd like to thank both of you for talking about this topic with us today and letting us know a little bit about how folks can approach this in the workplace. Even if you are not a manager you might want to consider when you go to work after listening to this, how you probably do you have a neurodivergent workforce, your co workers, your boss, the folks that you might supervise. So thanks for joining us to talk about it.

Christina Schultz

22:31

Thanks for everybody's efforts to or even contributing a little bit to supporting a neurodivergent workforce. We appreciate it and we can all learn from each other.

Steve Fast

22:42

Christina Schultz and Kristi Glesne. Teach professional development and business solutions courses in the continuing education department at Heartland Community College. If you are interested in other conversations about workplace management, diversity in the workplace, or other topics, subscribe to random acts of knowledge on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you found this one. Thanks for listening

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