Podcast: USDA official sees rural Kansas as 'the best-kept secret out there'
9:46PM Oct 1, 2022
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Kansas is known for its sunflowers, bison farms and rural communities. But as our country and state grow ever more closely connected and urbanized, what does that mean for small towns and communities across the Sunflower State? To help us answer that question in today's Kansas reflect your podcast, we have Christie Davis, the Kansas director for USDA Rural Development. My name is Clay wire stone. I'm the opinion editor for the reflector. And Christy, welcome to the podcast. Thank
you, Clay, it's great to be here.
So let's let's just start off with maybe the biggest question of all and one that you're I think, really dedicated to what do rural communities mean for Kansas? What what do they bring to the state?
Absolutely. Well, I would say what they bring to the state, but also the nation, as the country has become increasingly industrialized, increasingly commercialized. There's something about rural America, that that certainly lives in the hearts and minds of most folks in the country, but most of the folks don't live in rural America. So for those of us who do, I think we feel like we, it's the best kept secret out there. It is, to me, I think, to a lot of rural Kansans, it means community there are so many of us who grew up in a small town and move to larger cities, to seek employment and other things. But a lot of us are returning to those small towns because of community and the interpersonal connections, encountering people that you may or may not agree with every day and working together as a community to to get things done. So I think it is the heart and soul of of Kansas and the heart and soul of the country. Something that we certainly don't want to lose.
Absolutely. So, Christy, I, it's my understanding your, your, your you're new on the job. You've been been in this role for about two and a half months. So tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to be here?
Well, sure. I've actually been doing community development type work for about 25 years. My background is in historic preservation. And I started out working in local and state government ran the state preservation office, I've always been very interested in public policy, lawmaking, that sort of thing. And I spent about six years working, I had a historic preservation consulting firm after leaving government work, and then spent about six years running symphony in the Flint Hills, which, you know, symphony is the first word in the name, but the mission of the organization is to heighten appreciation for the Flint Hills, tall grass prairie. And we worked within, you know, we worked really in efforts to enhance and, and heighten awareness of this cultural landscape. That was the Flint Hills, and that involved a lot of working with rural communities. I then I ran for Congress, and then the position that I'm in now as a presidential appointment. And so I was appointed for this role by President Biden.
I see. And I mean, certainly, the symphony in the Flint Hills, I mean, that is a that's a huge events, you know, it's occasionally has some issues with with weather and the pandemic and the like, but, you know, just just talk for a moment about that, because I feel like that has really gained a lot of attention. And, you know, just eyeballs and public notice over the years.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think when when I took that position, I had a lot of people asking me why I left the historic preservation field. And, and I wouldn't say I didn't, I'm still doing, in my opinion, cultural resource management or cultural preservation, because that's a big part of it. The Flint Hills as a cultural landscape doesn't exist without human intervention. And it wouldn't be there if people weren't maintaining the grasslands, for for livestock grazing. So it's a very unique place place that we want to want to protect. And then within that, there are a lot of small communities as well. So that was a very important part of the job for me and someone with my background in particular,
and and that's, and that's about where you where you live to write or make your home.
Love the Flint Hills. My husband and I live in Chase County and we have a 10 year old son who's in school there. I think it's the most beautiful place on earth. I've felt that way for a very long time. You And it's also just the most incredible people, I think in small towns in Kansas in general. But the the folks that I've encountered in, in small communities in the Flint Hills are just, you know, exceptional people. And that's really part of what makes it fun living in a rural community.
Well, and as you say, there's this notion somehow that, you know, in small communities, you that they're necessarily all of one political orientation or another, but actually, in many ways, it seems to me from my experience, it actually it forces you to get along with other people more. Absolutely. There are many people with different opinions and beliefs. And but everyone knows that you want to support the town, or support
that. Really, I mean, I think that that's a skill that's learned. It's not something I mean, certainly, I think we have it in us to get along. But if you are, if you are, you know, speaking in a vacuum, and you're not communicating with other folks, and you're not really communicating with people who might see things differently than you do, I think there's a tendency to, to be very firm in your perspectives and ideas. When you're in a rural community, you're surrounded by, you know, people who have lots of different opinions, and you are with them in person, you can't avoid folks. And so I think that that's a skill that folks who grew up in small towns learn to get along. And it's an increasingly important skill. If you ask me, I think one of the things that the pandemic taught us was just the value of community. And we really understood the value of that when we were missing it and weren't able to interact with folks in person.
Absolutely. So two and a half months, just kind of getting your feet wet a little bit in this job. So talk about kind of the first things you're working on. What are what are you looking at right now?
Well, sure. So we're, you know, it's interesting, because my position is a presidential appointment. So a lot of what we're doing is really guided by the, the efforts of the Biden administration. And so in the case of USDA, and in particular, with rural development, there's an emphasis on equity going out, and really serving communities that may not have been served in the past. When you think of equity, and you think of diversity, a lot of folks think about ethnic diversity. I think most folks in rural Kansas will tell you, there's not a lot of ethnic diversity in rural Kansas, we know that. But there is a lot of economic diversity. And just a lot, a lot going on. And I think there are also a lot of folks in rural communities and even community leaders who may not be particularly fond of the federal government. And so we're we're working to help those communities meet the needs that they have, rather than going in. And, you know, forcing programs on them that may or may not fit their needs, we're going out and communicating with these communities, finding out what their top priorities are, and then identifying ways that we can help them help them do that. And these aren't always these aren't always the sexiest projects. That when you are meeting with folks who are on the ground, working in small towns and trying to get things to work, it's things like infrastructure, water, we've all heard a lot about broadband, but water, basic infrastructure, electrical service, these are things that are critical for any community to survive and thrive. And the communities that we work with don't always have the capacity to to deal with those things. So a lot of what we do is provide funding for those types of projects as well, because we have a lot of communities, you know, no one, no one wants to see these communities disappear, and those that are interested in pursuing a future can find, can find funding through a number of our programs.
Absolutely. And you you just had a couple of days of presentations or events through your office just a week or so ago. Is that right?
Well, we're always traveling. I guess it depends on which well,
well, I guess you're talking about things that were closer to the reflectors home base here in Topeka,
but got it? Yes. Well, last week, we had the great honor of hosting the undersecretary for rural development. So Secretary Vilsack folks will know that name he's the Secretary of Agriculture. There's an undersecretary for Rural Development. And her name is social Torres small. She has a rural background and just a force. And we were honored to host her last week for a couple of days. And during that time, we made an announcement for a $6 million grant for broadband company and Holton, jbn. Giant communications there. And so they hosted us there, we had a roundtable and we talked, you know, we sat down with the undersecretary in a very informal and frank discussion and really talked about what's working and what isn't working for rural communities and broadband. So that was a great opportunity for, for us to showcase the great things that are happening in Kansas, but also been the energy under secretary's ear and share a little bit about what's working well and what isn't. We also then had an opportunity to visit the hospital in Houghton, which was a project that we helped fund. They had a major expansion a few years ago. And so we were able to tour that with the undersecretary, we toured a childcare center in Hiawatha, that we helped fund a number of years ago. And so that was something that I know that with all of the studies that the state has been doing on rural development, childcare is something that comes up all the time as a huge priority. So we were able to show a childcare center in Hiawatha, and really share what the significance of that is for rural Kansas community. It's really a matter of sometimes of survival, to have child care in rural Kansas communities. And then we we were in Kansas City, and we had a listening opportunity with the Kansas sampler Foundation, we've worked closely with the Office of Rural prosperity. So the idea is, in my opinion, Kansas is really setting a standard when it comes to rural development nationwide, we got to share those things. And we also got to share some ideas for ways that we're addressing some of the challenges. And these are things that I think could be good models nationwide.
It's you make me feel just a little exhausted just hearing about it. That sounds like a lot of things. It sounds like you're very, very busy.
Oh, well, it's really not as it's not as complicated as as it sounds. But I will say that the best part of my position is getting out into these communities. And again, just finding out what the needs are and then working to address those. And so it is a lot of travel and a lot of communication. But it's it's what I love to do. And of course the staff does as well, or they wouldn't, they wouldn't be doing it so
well. And just to just to give a little information to the the listeners here to Christy and I actually met a couple of weeks ago, when I was going out to report a column, it's still not done, it will hopefully be done soon, about a visit that I took to council Grove and Christie's a an owner of a of a building downtown there. So you had another one of the the hats that you're wearing.
Yeah, I mean, that's here's this was the other great thing about rural Kansas. I mean, you're when you're out in these communities, you encounter amazing people I just happened, I tripped over you almost. When you are able to interact in person like that. And in a comfortable environment, you can meet incredible people and make great connections and learn lots of new things. And that was just an example of that.
Now, so you've you've we've kind of circled around this a little bit up to now. But what are you know, as you're on the job, as you're talking to folks, what's coming into focus for you is some of the biggest challenges that that folks in rural communities are facing right now or that the communities themselves are facing?
Absolutely. Well, of course, we hear about these things anecdotally. But we also in Kansas, we're fortunate in that the state of Kansas has data and has done a lot of reporting on on what these challenges are. Our programs really fall into three main areas, Housing, Community Programs, so community facilities and community programs and business programs. Nearly every community that we are in, is struggling to house its residents, whether they're growing or not, because what happens oftentimes is even if even if a community is shrinking, the housing stock is Not necessarily keeping up. And in many communities, there hasn't been a lot of new construction. And so we have programs that help with financing those projects, both single family housing, but also some multifamily housing programs as well. And clearly, this is an emphasis that the state has, has placed as well, I know Department of Commerce, and Kansas housing and others have really been focused on this. It's an it's an incredibly huge challenge, I think, for rural communities, because when you're in an urban center, well, first you have your own construction companies, right, you have larger construction companies, they have some economy of scale, they might be building an entire neighborhood. And they might have, you know, 100 homes that they're building at the same time. And that makes sense. Those same developers aren't necessarily going to go build a house at a time in rural Kansas. And so that's, that's a huge challenge. It's getting contractors to be there. It's economies of scale, it costs a lot of money right now to build a house. And in rural Kansas, it's more. And there are all kinds of barriers. So we we try to help with that with with businesses. What we're seeing now is we are seeing an increased interest in some of our business programs, many of them are. They're guaranteed loan programs, guaranteed lending programs. As interest rates increase, I think we're going to see more folks taking advantage of some of the interest rates that we're able to provide for rural businesses. And then community facilities. I mean, it's It runs the gamut. It childcare is a huge, big issue. We haven't been involved as much as I'd like I think in the past, in helping facilitate that and communities. But there are some efforts that are happening now at the state level. And and we're exploring that as well. Water is always an issue. It's not just I mean, we hear a lot about the Ogallala Aquifer, right, it's access to water, especially in southwest Kansas, that we hear a lot about. But it's also when you have a municipality, you've got a source of water, you have, you know, water treatment facility, and you have pipes. And I think as Americans, we're used to just turn on a faucet and everything's great. A lot of this infrastructure is aging. And small communities may have invested a great deal in the infrastructure historically. But they face challenges with keeping it up, not maintaining it, building it new, making sure that they have water pressure. And I think that's also critical for business as well, to make sure we've got the water pressure and access that folks need to, to have industry because while many of us understand there's not as much industry as there has been in the past, most small industry and especially agribusiness relies heavily on on, you know, a quality, reliable source of water. And that creates a challenge for many communities. And if you can't, if you can't have water for your businesses, you're not going to attract businesses. So those are the kinds of things that that tend to come up as challenges. And it's often the same in in every community with some with a few differences. But
well, and it also feels like just hearing you describe it like these are very much interlocking challenges, right? In other words, you have to have the business development to get new people, but the new people have to have somewhere to live, then their kids have to have somewhere to go, why the parents are working and so on and so forth.
Oh, yeah. I mean, you've got a small community that straps, right, doesn't have a great tax base. They have to make an investment in their future in order to survive. And so a decision has to be made. I mean, they have to make great sacrifices, just like the folks who built these communities in the first place to ensure their survival long term. And I think many of us who did grow up in rural Kansas were probably raised to leave. I think there's a generation of folks who, you know, maybe weren't, maybe weren't even thinking about, you know, the next generation. And now we've got, you know, many decades of disinvestment, and we're trying to make up ground and it's a lot of work.
So, just to give us a little bit of context here, Christie when we're talking about rural, how do we define rural? I, you know, that might have myton needed to have been the first question, but But sure, what is rural?
Well, you know, we're USDA, we're a federal program. I'll be the first to tell you there's not a one size fits all to to rural development, but the federal government actually defines rural as communities with 50,000 or fewer people, which is really broad. It is very broad and in Kansas I mean, you know, you've got a, you've got a town of 5000, you got a pretty good size city, right? You think about like Colby, for example, we have some, you know, I think there's somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 communities in Kansas that are 5000 or more, and I think Majan 20 of those are in the Kansas City region. So there aren't that many larger communities, the vast majority of our municipalities are the are the smallest ones. And so the challenge is always win. That's the definition that comes down from the federal government. It does tend and in my opinion, based on my experience, it does tend to give an advantage, I think, to those communities that are a little larger, because these are government programs, and they require they require a court require some capacity, they require time for applications and managing these projects. And not every community has the capacity to do that. And so you have
some matching funds, in some cases, right? It's
a big deal. Right now in Northwest Kansas. They're they're actually doing pretty well, I think, just generally, because of the impact of the Hansen Foundation and others, it really depends on the community you're in, what kind of community foundation you have, what kind of Yeah, what kind of funding you have for matching, but most of our communities don't have that that large of a tax base. And so that match is probably not coming from the budget. And these projects are enormous. I'm working in one community where the engineering alone for their street project, just just the engineering part, just the planning part is more than their annual budget for the city. Those are the kinds of challenges that our communities are facing, they're, they're huge.
Well, and we're also dealing with a situation too, right? Where historically, one of the arguments for rural communities is or smaller communities has often been, oh, it's a lower cost of living. But, you know, if you're trying to actually actively kind of rehab and get these these places up and running, it's not necessarily a lower cost.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, construction costs the same or more in rural communities, that's as it does in, in larger communities, then you do have smaller markets, right for, for folks who are able and willing to pay higher rents. And the folks who really need places to live right now, at least in this is my anecdotal experience, are people moving into these communities to serve pretty critical roles? Its doctors, its teachers. It's counselors, I mean, I'm thinking of my own tenants, it's these are people who many of them are in positions that, you know, don't, don't pay as much as they should. And so they, it's impossible for them to pay the kinds of rents that you could charge in a city, and honestly, a little unfair. So that is always a challenge. And that's why I was involved this past legislative session, in some, in some legislation that creates some new incentives, especially for the smallest Kansas communities, because otherwise, they can't compete. There really isn't. It isn't a situation where they're putting the private sector out of business, the private sector isn't able to make it work without these incentives. And so those are the kinds of things that that we've had to work on, so that we can have teachers and healthcare workers and so forth in the smaller communities.
So as we kind of wrap up here a little bit what, what gets you most excited? Now as you're as you're looking at all of the stuff, we've talked about some challenges, we've talked about kind of what you're doing, as you as you kind of get your hands wrapped around this new job, arms wrapped around this new job. So what are you really excited for?
I am excited that it's the same thing that's gotten me excited. Really, before I started this job, as well, I there is a whole new generation of folks who are disrupting rural communities. And I think in a in a very good way. creative folks, a lot of times people who've grown up in these small communities, they've moved away, they've they've established businesses, and they're coming back. And they recognize it's a great place, you know, to raise a family, but they're also reinventing, reinventing small business in these communities. And I'm really excited about it. So when I, when I see folks who you know, who are younger than the average age, you know, in rural in rural communities who are going in and investing in those communities, oftentimes their own hometowns and have some skin in the game and you know they're investing money time, blood, sweat and tears. That gets me excited because then I know there's a future for these communities.
Well, that is a hopeful and great, great note to end on. So Christy Davis, Kansas director for USDA Rural Development. Thank you so much for joining us on The Kansas reflector podcast this week.
