SMME EP425 Scope of Practice, State Regulations, and Industry Advocacy with Susanne Schmaling

12:05PM Mar 16, 2025

Speakers:

Daniela Woerner

Keywords:

Scope of practice

state regulations

industry advocacy

Susanne Schmaling

esthetics council

clinical skin care

curriculum development

professional standards

legislative representation

medicalization of beauty

regulatory process

public process

enforcement

professionalism

education.

Welcome to Spa Marketing Made Easy, a podcast for spa owners who want to step up their leadership and business skills and step into the role as spa CEO. I'm your host. Daniela Woerner, CEO of Addo Aesthetics and Founder of the Growth Factor Framework Program, where we teach, coach and guide spa owners in scaling their spas to the next level of growth and unlocking freedom in their life and their business. I'm so glad you're here now. Let's dive into the show.

Hey friends. Daniela here and welcome to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast. So this episode, this was one that we actually plan to air later in the month, but with everything that's going on in the state of Texas around scope of practice, we really wanted to get this moved up to today to make sure that it was given the awareness that we're getting the word out around some of these sweeping changes that are happening or attempting to happen in the various states. So I have a guest, Susanne Schmaling, and shout out to Misty. So Misty is one of our longtime clients. Hi, Misty. Love you girl, and she is somebody who I consider a friend. She shared an article that Susanne wrote in Skin Inc, and was like, hey, this lady would be a great guest on the podcast. I agreed. I read her article. She's obviously very intelligent, very passionate about our industry, doing a lot of work to help protect scope of practice in a smart way, in a way that makes sense. So we got her on the show, and she really is doing a lot to highlight this process of how scope of practice things are changed, so I'm going to do just a quick read of her bio, and then we'll get right into that interview. My call to action to you is make sure that after this episode, you go to your board, your state board, and make sure that you're getting notifications around legislation that is going through trying to be passed in your state. It's extremely, extremely important. And if you don't know what's happening in Texas, listen to the episode. It's a big deal. Okay, so Susanne schmaling is a visionary leader in the Aesthetics industry with over three decades of experience as a practitioner, educator, author and advocate as founder of the Esthetics Council, she champions professional standards, skills, education and legislative representation for estheticians nationwide. Her expertise is in clinical skin care and curriculum development has shaped educational frameworks across the industry, empowering practitioners with science based approaches to skin health. Most recently, Schmeling founded peruvia skincare, an innovative AI beauty tech company with meaningful employment opportunities for licensed professionals. By merging cutting edge technology with professional expertise, she continues her lifelong mission of elevating the esthetics profession while addressing industry challenges. She may Ling's unique blend of clinical experience, business acumen and policy awareness has established her as an influential voice guiding the future of skincare and professional esthetics. She's really an incredible woman. She's got a lot to say and a lot of passion around our industry. I hope you enjoy this episode, and please, please, please make this one that you share with a friend in the esthetic space. This is a really, really important thing. This is the type of episode that you're sharing in Facebook groups and with other esthetic providers as an industry, we need to unite. We need to support one another, and we need to make sure that effective scope of practice changes are being made that make sense for our industry. So please share this episode, enjoy the interview, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts.

All right. Susanne, welcome to the Spa marketing Made Easy Podcast. I'm really excited to have you here this conversation. You know, it all started, gosh, probably around six months ago, when someone sent me an article that you had written in Skin Inc Magazine, and they said, this lady sounds incredible, and you should have her as a guest on the podcast. And so I reached out. We started to get to know each other, and it's just really impressive how involved you are in really fighting for our industry, fighting for estheticians, really doing such important work that doesn't really get talked about very often, because I think it is something that, and I'll speak for myself, and is that I just take for granted. You know, it's we're so focused, like in my in my world, I'm so focused on building businesses that I'm not thinking about the scope of practice stuff, which is. Is essential to to be able to build a business. So I did do an intro, but I, you know, tell people in your own words what it is that you are doing in the esthetic space with esthetics Council, what is your kind of mission and purpose here?

Well, my whole mission and purpose, after working in this industry for 30 years is to provide a almost generic organization that's not focused on a certain revenue stream to advocate for estheticians. Through my experience in the different roles I've had, I've noticed that often discussion and nuanced and detailed discussion around regulation and informing and educating regulators has been completely missing, so I've really focused on trying to educate and build relationships with each board's executive directors. Sometimes it's, you know, helpful, sometimes it's not, and then education I my focus and love has always been education. I've written several books and, you know, just redone curriculum with pivot point. So I'm really focused on making sure that education is standard in uniform across the US, so that when we do talk to regulators about what's going on, it makes sense and we have legally defensible information, but we really need, I really need to get this industry organized, because there's so many threats to us. So our that is our focus is really trying to educate regulators and help them make really smart decisions so we don't lose our profession. So

let's, talk about scope of practice. And this is something that, as I'm sure you know more than anybody else, it is a full time job to understand what you're able to do in your state. And you know, I've been in the industry almost 20 years now, and the part of the reason that I became an entrepreneur in the first place was because I married my husband, who was active duty military, and we ended up moving 12 different times, living in different states. And the scope of practice is different in every single state. And where I learned and where I grew up, I kind of grew up in Durham offices and plastics offices, and I didn't know how to wax. I wasn't really great at doing facials. I was doing energy based devices, Doctor on site. But still, that was kind of my model. And I'm like, if we end up in California, or if we end up in, you know, some state that has regulations that I know that I won't be able to do legally, to do the services that I've been doing for years, then I'm out of a job. And so for me, it was a livelihood. It was either I'm going to go to school and become a nurse or I'm going to become an entrepreneur. And 11 years ago, I made that choice to become an entrepreneur. I'm glad that I did, but that's also a luxury that not everybody has. You know, a lot of people really enjoy and have such a deep passion for solving problems in the skin, for connecting with their clients, for really helping build confidence, and when there's already still much that goes into the kind of expertise of how to solve these problems, and then you layer on, oh, but I'm also running my own business and all of those, and then my own family and personal life and just being a human it gets really heavy to think Like, what can I do? What can I not do? And it, it's, yeah, so that's what you're really focusing on, is, how do we make sure that we're aware of scope of practice in the different states? How am I aware of what these regulations and changes are? I mean, I know, personally, I've worked with practice owners where the regulations changed and they had to close their business because they were a non physician, owned Med Spa, and the state changed, or they realized that they were operating illegally, even though they initially opened the business legally. When the scope changed, they had to then transition into an MSO and spend 3040, grand to make that transition, right? I mean, it's a it's not pennies. We're talking about here.

No, it's livelihoods. It's our professional careers. It's, you know, first of all, one of the things that I face all the time when I'm out there talking is how uneducated estheticians are, and we're not qualified to do this. We're not qualified to do that. When I started in the 90s, there was no such thing as a med spa. I had doctors coming to me with the initial Laser Hair removals when I own my own day. Spa wanting to use a room to do this, and at the time, we knew there was a lot of problems with these lasers, and from there, we've been watching, I call it just the medicalization of beauty, and that's a problem, not only for us in our career, but for our clients. This is really turning into an issue where access is going to be limited as well. I mean, we know in some areas of the nation it's impossible just even to get a decent doctor's appointment in time. So we're seeing some things happen that are, let's be really frank here. It's based on money. When I hear the safety argument that comes up, which is what you know, your your clients that had to shut down, more than likely, some things were passed on a medical side that were citing client safety. Well, the data around that has been tweaked a bit, and so there's been some really good arguments. We've been able to go up and fight on some of these claims. But it's it's turning into a fight that not only are we going to be the losers, but our clients are as well, or patients. Well,

well, let's clarify that, because I do think that there are certain things that should be done by a medical professional, for example, injectables. I don't think aestheticians have any business doing injectables, but there are, I think what you're talking about, there's certain like, I know in Maryland, they tried to take away the ultrasonic scrubber. Like, what does that do?

You know? Like, why? What sense does that make? So, it's, it's what we're talking about. Here are

things you know, in in my understanding, and admittedly, I don't have anywhere near the depth of understanding around regulation that you do, but my understanding is that as estheticians, we should be able to work in the epidermis, and so services that only affect the epidermis, We should be able to perform. And so like, no injections. You know, there are certain energy based devices that should be, have a medical professional that's doing them. There should be, you know, services like medically assisted weight loss. You need a medical professional. But we're talking about some very basic, simple services that aestheticians, there's not a reasonable argument of why we should not be able to do those services.

Yeah, you're correct. And even when we're talking about energy based devices, it's a really broad category, and there's different levels and types of technology that should be identified that estheticians can use. So for example, when we're talking about, let's say, radio frequency, there's certain levels of radio frequency that, yeah, probably should be under medical supervision. But then there's others that can be used in the esthetic space that should be acceptable, but when you see a statute that basically blocks all energy devices or anything considered class two, you've just killed several different categories. And so the misunderstandings around that is a big deal now when we're talking about medicalization of beauty treatments, of course, when you're talking about injectables and things like that, you need to have specific training. And I will even go as far as to say that there's a lot of medical professionals that should not be doing it unless they've gone through specific training. So it's more than just your this category. Don't touch the skin or the face in this way. It's what's the training standard, and that, honestly, is one of the really tough areas, even in medical, that they can't agree on. We're getting better as technology evolves, but we've got to really find a way to speak a common language, not only in esthetics, but in medical esthetics, and find a way to get these regulators to fully understand what it is that we do. Now, if we have a regulatory board, and I've had a couple of states that have been like, we don't want to regulate this at all, that's a problem within the government within that state, and so estheticians on the ground absolutely have to get more involved with their own boards and helping to educate them, because there are, you know, we do have some we have some issues, obviously on the political front and regulatory front that we're coming up against. But it's just about really getting clear about what these modalities are and what the safety factor is, which also means that our vendors have to get involved. Every time we get something new released to the market that sounds really cool and is making more medical claims automatically, a board looks at that says, Nope, that's medical, even though we know how the device works in the skin, may not be beyond that epidermal layer. Year. So there's, you know, there's marketing you've got to deal with, there's regulatory and then also the education side. So it's complicated.

Talk to me a little bit about the process, because we were talking before the show about how sometimes a board will release a memo versus the actual procedural process of getting something into law or making it a statute or whatever the proper terminology is. How are we looking at this public process versus memo to understand what is within our scope? So

that's where it starts to get really complicated. The reality is the only, the only definition of what's within a scope of practice needs to come from the AGs office in your state, which there's always an attorney general or Deputy Attorney General that's assigned to your board. So normally, when rules are put into place, there is a public process which means that you can speak up, you know, tell them about your own experience with the device or modality. Vendors should be showing up, providing their safety data. Everybody who's a stakeholder around this issue should show up and help educate the board. Usually, this process takes about a year, so regulations do not change quickly, and there should be that full public process. What I'm starting to see, for example, bringing up Illinois, is you have boards that are regulatory agencies that are being asked by certain entities to give their opinion around modalities, and their opinion it just depends on the state that you're in. Sometimes it's called a memo, sometimes it's other, you know, regulatory notice. But essentially what they do is they give their opinion about what's within scope and what's out of scope, where it gets really complicated. And what I have to do is, I then have to go look at administrative law for the state and find out is that legal does the board have the authority to just release an opinion piece about what's within scope? If it does, then what has to happen is an appeal, and you may even need to go to your governor to do so also, if that's the case, sometimes that's legislative. So separating the legislative from regulatory and regulatory is really where I spend a lot of my time. It's really finding out. Is this a legal interpretation of what's within scope? And if it is not, how do we challenge it? Most of it is done just out of not knowing or being influenced by other outside entities. So it's important in those cases that we identify what the process is. So Illinois was not an open rules regulatory process. There was no announcement. There was no meetings around it. It was just updated and released.

Can you share a little bit more about what happened in Illinois? Sure.

So December 2, they updated their prohibited list. And you can go to, I think it's idpr, I have to look at it, but go to Illinois State and look at your board, and essentially, what they have, what they've put, is out of scope. Is pretty much everything that we're doing, chemical peels, led anything that's an energy device. They've also mixed in their neuromodulators and things like that that we know are under supervision, but the way it is written is so broad that it's essentially shutting down estheticians right now. The kicker in this memo is they've also added the supervision side to it. So the way I am reading this, and it's also not very well written, but how I'm interpreting this is, you no longer can even have an MSO. You've got to have direct supervision. So then you've got to go look at what are the direct supervision laws in that state. And it does. It takes a bit of time to go through and research and figure that out, and that's where I spend a lot of my time. So right now, what we're trying to do, Terry wojak and I are putting together a webinar for Illinois estheticians in order to go through step by step what our rights are and what we can do the other side of this, the difference between a regulatory action and something like this is enforcement. If you have an inspector walk through the door and they're going to cite you on something, just like if you've gotten pulled over for a speeding ticket, they've got to be able to cite the law, the number, what it is, and write you a ticket. The gray area here is what are they citing on so in the case of Illinois, are they citing practice of medicine? If so, they need to list the statute that's being enforced. Well, that statute and regulation comes under the medical board. So who is that inspector representing? So there's some real legal issues around it, but as an aesthetician, you're. Working all day, you're you're trying to run your business, you're busy, and somebody walks through your door and hands you a citation. You don't have time to sit there and fight that. You just get scared and stop what you're doing and take the ticket. That is the problem, the way things are being enforced and interpreted, especially for a group like us that is not organized, and we're also we don't have deep pockets like some of the other professions out there, medical for one, and so it can be a little bit difficult to find help, to go fight something, and I've been involved in a lot of that.

Can I ask what the proper process is? Do you not accept the ticket, or do you is there a, you know, if you get a speeding ticket, like, if you want to contest this, you can show up in court at this date. Is there a process? There

is, yeah, basically the same process. So regulations between a speeding ticket to, you know, even getting cited in as a profession, it's the same type of process. So you'll be issued the ticket. For example, in California, I've been involved in a few of those, California will issue a letter, and then the board administrator will take a look at the case and decide whether or not to cite so even though you're issued something, usually they're issuing a ticket or a warning when they come through and inspect, and I'm talking California, you accept that, and then later you're going to get a letter that confirms it, and then you're also going to get an actual citation with a citation number and a cited regulation that you have broken. So it's a little bit different than a speeding ticket, where they hand you that right then and there. From there, you do absolutely have a right to contest it, and probably should. With esthetics council members, I'm usually involved in helping them fight those citations, unless it's a disinfection citation, because usually there's been something that you know has gone wrong or that you've overlooked. It's got to be very egregious for me to get involved in that. But when it comes to practice of medicine, citation, which actually can turn into a misdemeanor and potentially a felony if it continues So, practice of medicine citations are a big deal and should never be ignored and should always be fought, unless you are doing something that's obviously medicine, like doing injections without supervision or something.

So there were a couple of other states you had mentioned, Idaho and Texas, that had some pretty big changes, and very recently, Texas just had something pass through. Can you talk to us about those things? Yeah,

let's talk about Texas. First, Texas. This just got filed March 4. Unfortunately, this came from a very bad situation where we had a woman die from IV and IV done within a med spa that most definitely is a medical practice. It should not, in my opinion, be done outside of medical supervision. So we have a death from there. It's morphed into regulating med spas as a whole. And the theory behind it is called HB 3749 and the theory behind it is safe. Med spas, most people can get behind that. We know we want our clients to be safe. The problem is in the definition of what practice of medicine is what cosmetic procedures are considered practice, and medicine, it is so broad that the way it's written, when regulations are then going to be put into place, things like led, low energy devices that we may be able to use, all of that will be out of scope of practice. And it the devil is in the details. When you look at these bills that are presented, you've got to understand what that definition is going to do to the modalities that are used. And that's where I'm heavily involved. I'm involved in an estate like Alaska, where we're going through a med, spa work group committee, and I've been able to break that out. We've got to get really clear so the terminology within this bill that has been submitted is not acceptable to our scope of practice. In theory, the bill may be able to keep some people safe, but it also requires on site supervision, so that, in turn, is going to affect a lot of your clients. To Daniela, where, you know, an MSO basically, would be illegal. They're going to have to be on site at all times. So this

is it defined. I mean, we have a lot of nurses in our world as well, and they're hiring aestheticians because aestheticians are such an important piece of the puzzle, right? And what we're teaching is like, Hey, if you're an NP focus on the things that NPS can do if you're send your estheticians to do the skincare, to do the facials, to do the chemical peels, right, all these things that they're so good at. And estheticians are like, I don't think I'm surprising anybody by saying that they are the absolute most educated. Around skincare, and they're best at skincare sales, like nurses are just not. That's not their thing, not their thing, right, right? I love my nurses. I love you, but your estheticians are way better at skincare. It's what it is. And so it makes sense from a business standpoint, like, Hey, have everybody the right people in the right positions. But if you're, say, You're a CRNA in Texas and you have a team of estheticians, is that considered on site? Or do you have to, like, what does that even mean Exactly?

And so that's part of the problem with the way this bill is written. And because the devil in you can look at a bill that's written very vaguely, and in theory, you're behind it. Okay, it sounds safe, but then the unintended consequences come in in the regulatory process. So this bill passes, and all of a sudden we've got medical boards saying, Oh, no, no, only a physician can supervise. No MPs, no advanced practice nurses in supervision that can be done not only in a legislative process, but in a regulatory process. And so the way this is written is just, it's not fair to the industry as a whole,

but it doesn't seem beneficial for the physicians either. Like, I

mean, that's what I don't get with most of these bills. If a physician really looked at the business model and how to make money in a med spa. They would not be supporting things like this. They, you know, they would be supporting very clear, detailed legislation that translates into actionable regulation. And that's the big deal. You know, a statute and a law only goes so far. It has to be enforced, and most of them that I see across the nation are not even enforceable. It just looks like a scope grab. And that's really disheartening, especially when people are you know they need to make a living. This is we're not doing this for free. We're good at what we do. But when you look at a med spa, a good business model with a med spa is having well trained estheticians. We're going to make our income, we're going to pay for our salary. We're going to make a lot of income for the owners of the Med Spa. And we should also be able to take part in the ownership of that Med Spa. So, you know, for example, the way California is set up, it's really not beneficial to anybody but physicians. And that's, that's just truly, truly unfair.

So we've highlighted a a very big kind of elephant in the room, right? The the state of our industry, the the things that are going on that are affecting us that we're not necessarily aware of now that that is out in the open, and we have people saying, well, hey, how can I help? Everybody's going to be able to have a different level of time commitment and ability, right? Like people have kids, people have lives, people have bills to pay. And there's, there's a lot of things that, as much as you would desire to help. Maybe you just like don't have the ability to read through and truly understand what a law is saying, you know, what are the things that we can do on all different levels to help unite our industry, to help really get meaningful scope of practice, because I think that there is like, there's clearly things that estheticians can do incredibly well, there's clearly things that nurses do incredibly well, there's clearly things that physicians do incredibly well. And how can we define those so that we're all working to support one another and lifting up the industry. You know, it's like, the more I believe, the more we all work together, and the more that we respect one another, the better that this whole industry is going to be. It's so. So where do we go from here, right?

So that's, that's one of the big issues, you know. And why I started the Esthetics Council is because I can read statute, you know. I know how to do that deep work. It's time consuming.

Did you ever want to study law? Because that just doesn't sound like a fun okay, my husband, like, wants to go to law school for fun. I'm like, Really, what is fun about that, but he listens to like the Supreme Court, things on fast forward. I'm like, oh my god,

we'd get along very well. Yes, I did. That was my path initially, and I got a little derailed with, you know, some family issues that happened. My stop gap was aesthetics, and I was doing makeup and doing aesthetics to get me through college and sit open today spa and the rest is history. So, yeah, I spend a lot of time there. I don't know why I have this. I just have it. I guess it's a gift. I don't know if it's a good way to go to sleep at night. Is read some statute, but the. Reason I did the Esthetics Council so that we would, I would have a way to be able to do that within, you know, reason, and be able to pull people in as far as the day to day. How do you help out? Well, the first thing that you've got to do, even if you have kids, you're busy, and I understand exhaustion, you've got to watch your boards, and you've got to watch your state legislature, and we try to monitor as much as possible. I have some really great contacts with different, you know, government affairs organizations that will kind of give me a heads up. But I need the estheticians in their states to be notifying me, hey, this bill came up. I don't know what this means

so, but I mean, even let's zoom out, is there like an email list that we get on in our state? How do we even find right piece, like, let's zoom out,

zoom out. Go to your your state board should have a way for you to sign up for every single meeting. You should be able to get a notice that there's going to be a meeting coming up every single time there is one. So it should be happening. Now, I know there's been some issues. Let's take we kind of mentioned Idaho. Idaho has not been good at informing the estheticians there. In fact, in 2017 there was a law that was passed that prohibited all class two devices. It just snuck right through the legislature. No one that I've talked to had any idea about it. So you know, it's it's a mess up on our side of the industry as well, because you have other organizations that consider themselves, associations that are not monitoring this. And it's difficult. It's really difficult unless you spend several $1,000 a month just to monitor this stuff. So it's really relying on we have a lot of great members, and I get notices from members all the time. Hey, this bill came up. What does this mean? Can you look at it? So things like that are really, really helpful. So bottom line, if you see something coming up you're unsure about it, just message me or email me, and we can take

do you have to be licensed in that particular state? Like so, for example, I live in the DC area. We have DC, Maryland, Virginia. There's a lot of people that might be licensed in DC, but not in Virginia or whatever. Are you still able to get notifications from the board from all three states, even if you're not licensed in all three of those

states. Sure, I get notifications from Virginia every month. So I've signed up for almost every state that I can identify. How to sign up? I've done it. Okay? Yeah, you can get notification. It's usually regulatory. It's not legislative. So the legislative side is the really hard part, because a lot of things can pop up that you won't even hear about unless your local news reports on it. So legislatively, is a big, tough monster that we have to use special software to really look at. Sometimes there's a statisticians on the ground. They get word that, hey, you know, for example, Rhode Island, I've got some people to watch. In Rhode Island, we've got a bad bill going through right now. They notified me that was going on, but then when I went to the ledge serve, I could not find that because it wasn't in a certain process. So the legislative side is a little more difficult, but one where, as an aesthetician, you just kind of have to keep your ears open. If you hear something, definitely let us know. But in your realm with your license, you've got to watch your your board. It's a pain in the butt, I admit it. It's not a fun job, but you have to stay on top of it. I hear a lot. Oh, the scope changes really fast. Well, it doesn't. Scope will take at least a year to change. The thing that happens quickly is when an interpretation may come from the board. And that's the part that we may have to go, okay, that's not really legal. We need to go fight that. That can happen, but that's still, you're going to get notice from the board meeting. They they have to put it in an agenda. And if you have a board that is very quiet and closed and they're not giving out public information, that's not legal number one, and we can also put in a public records request to get that information. Hopefully we don't, you know, there's a few states have dealt with that are kind of like that, but the whole goal is to be legal and open up that process. So you've you just gotta be aware, and you've gotta be careful what you're putting out on social media as well. I know several boards that watch esthetician groups and some of the things that they talk about, and they will use some of these things to restrict modalities because they feel it's medical in nature, and that's a problem because you can't control social media. But as a professional, I really love how the nurses do it, where it's very ethical. As you have your guidelines, we really need to adopt things. Like that as well, so that we're not such a target because we're so called unprofessional or doing things that are going to harm people. So it's being aware, reaching out when you see something that may not be correct. And then the other thing that I like to bring up is educating yourself really, getting good at what your profession is, and being safe about it, and being very selective about where you get your education and information. Really do your due diligence. If it sounds like it's too good to be true or it's strictly manufacturer education, you've got to broaden that. I mean, we're not just sales people for manufacturers, right? We have a profession. We understand skin science. We always need to be evolving and learning, but be smart about what you're doing. If something seems like the results are too good to be true, or it looks like it's going to cause some harm to your client, even though it may be hot in the market right now. Take a step back as a professional and really take a look at that. You know, plasma pens on the radar right now. Plasma pen, we saw the whole issue with micro needling come up. FDA started getting involved with that. You're going to see FDA getting involved with plasma pen. But yet, we've got hundreds, if not 1000s of estheticians that have bought this, and now the boards are going, Oh, wait, this is this is too deep. This is causing too many issues. Pulling that off the market. Micro needling is the one modality we should be able to do, and in a majority of the states I deal with, we cannot, because of how it was introduced to the market and how our vendors brought things in that were not FDA approved until that whole process was done. So it's really about our industry, raising the level of professionalism, doing a little bit of self regulation, if you will, and staying involved, but being smart about it.

Well, thank you for I mean, there's clearly so much passion and dedication in what you're doing, and that really makes a difference. I know that's something that probably goes unnoticed, and so just thank you for dedicating your time and energy into that. Can you tell us a little bit about where people can find you and follow you to get in touch with you. What is and we'll include all of these links below the episode as well. But what's the best place for people to connect with you? Probably

the best place would be our website, estheticscouncil.org, you know, obviously we have some social presence, but it's we're I'm not doing as much on social because it was throttled for a bit, because we talk about legislative stuff, so that it pulled back a little bit. But you can always message me there too. But estheticscouncil.org, would be your, your main contact point. Wonderful.

Was there anything else that you wanted to share on this episode to make it complete? Any question I didn't ask or anything like that,

not really that I can think of other than I'd like to say, I know I sound like the doom and gloom all the time, and I've been talking about these issues for a long time. I want everybody to know that you don't have to be overwhelmed, that if we all work together, we really can support each other, and we can have longevity in this profession. It's just a matter of you getting involved, reaching out, and knowing that you're not alone. You know we are in this together. We really are.

Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. All right, my friends, thank you so much for listening. Make sure that you do your part, go to your state board, find a way to get on their email list. Start there, right. Just take one step, one step, one step, and see what you can do to help unify our profession, to help ensure that we have proper scope of practice. All of those things, it will make a difference. So Susanne, thank you so much. I'm so appreciative of you, and we will catch you on the next episode.