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S2E4 guarding-the-tomb-of-the-unknown

Natalia Sobery29min

Matt Kreeb

00:05

Are two bosses of not tomorrow, gravy you're going to tell us all about Mr. Christiansen did for our country. So I had to go to the library. I didn't learn about his library in high school. That wasn't a reader. I wasn't a researcher. But I had to as part of the position, I had to go and learn about these individuals and the common theme hundreds and hundreds and hundreds every day. I was researching these individuals with somebody that was 19 years old, in a foreign country that did something insane like throw themselves on a hand grenade in order to save a handful of his comrades, and was given the the Medal of Honor posthumously to is next to Kim. Still in my 19 year old world where I'm working 24/7 Pretty much I have nothing to complain about when I consider the sacrifice.

Steve Fast

00:59

Arlington National Cemetery serves as the final resting place for approximately 400,000 individuals who served the United States of America. The most prominent marker in the cemetery is for a group of service members across generations who died in service, but whose identities are unknown. This is random acts of knowledge presented by Heartland Community College. I'm your host, Steve fast. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington is guarded by a constant detail with soldiers. Today we will talk with one of those guards, who says his life was profoundly affected by this duty.

Matt Kreeb

01:35

I'm Matt creed. I live in Fisher, Illinois, I served in the US Army one of my most interesting jobs was serving as a sentinel at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier which is in Arlington National Cemetery. Arlington is a tremendous, tremendous tapestry of American history. Darlington was a plantation established by George Washington's adopted grandson, and continues to this day, just today, there was at least 25 funerals for military personnel who gave a large part of their life if not gave their entire life to the preservation of freedom to the surface of our nation is now over 400,000 American heroes buried in Arlington, I can say hero because I've studied many, many hundreds of individuals buried in Arlington. And each and every story is amazing sacrifice that they gave willingly.

Steve Fast

02:34

So how did you get the assignment to become a sentinel at Arlington Cemetery at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

Matt Kreeb

02:41

I was just a young man, it was my first assignment in the Army. I was I was a lopping, I just turned 19 years old. And when I started training that the two, the two guards our specialty group within the old guard, each of the five branches of the military conduct funerals for their own time, so to speak, and in Arlington, the bulk of which is army but therefore says tone delegation, as well as the Coast Guard, they do their own burials. And so I was on a firing party in the old guard. And there was an opportunity that the army exclusively holds the vigil at the tomb. And being in this unit, I was given the option to volunteer it's exclusively volunteer. It's a very unique position in all sorts of different realms, but also very unique in the sense that it is exclusively volunteer. Any moment any day, a soldier decides that they cannot put forth their absolute best, they can quit, they can ring the quitters Bell, kind of like the Navy Seals and they walk away that day. Nobody is forced to go through the ridiculous measure of commitment of which the tomb sentinels serve. In a capacity. It's hard to explain. I gave my my youth to him. I served there for three and a half years, an unusually long stint. I served in every position from a walking guard, I conducted 2553 public ceremonies myself, that doesn't include the countless night hours, I never added up the night hours, Arlington is close to the public at night. We guard 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, every second of every year, the team has been guarded by army personnel. And we have many strange rituals who walk precisely 21 steps back and forth. We pause for precisely 21 seconds. And that of course is is a hint of the 21 gun salute, which is, in essence the highest honor that we can bestow upon the unknowns who are buried there. That's called the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier which the first the World War One unknown was just interred right at 100 years ago, this past November 11. So we just can Memory of the centennial. But the tomb has expanded. And that now holds the remains of a world war two delegate, a representative from the Korean War and for the Vietnam War.

Steve Fast

05:13

You mentioned some of the things that the Sentinels do that there is a detail. And there are rituals, how many people usually are in that detail? And how long are you there before you are relieved?

Matt Kreeb

05:27

It's a rigorous schedule. It's kind of complicated. The front side is that we work in 24 hour shifts, so one group is on guard for 24 hours. Ideally, we would have four or five people, four to six, six would be nice that we can get breaks in between things if we have more people. But in my experience, it was typically four people and with an hour overlap every day, so it's swells into a 26 hour shift. But then that doesn't include preparing the uniform during the day during all the ceremonies and it's hot, we were dress blues, premium quality dress blues are actually made up of 100% wool. Now I understand what suit quality the the higher the wool content, the higher quality, the better it holds up press better holds the shape and looks crisp and clean. Even if it's soggy with sweat, because we sweat a lot. We had thermometers, we put these thermometers in our pocket, we were able to register temperatures in the summertime up to 130 degrees, we actually fried a turkey thermometer, we broke a turkey thermometer in our test pocket. It gets pretty blazing hot in Illinois, we understand humidity, and I tolerated the heat better than most guys come from all different walks of life. And some people didn't tolerate the heat very well. I didn't tolerate the cold. I really don't like the cold didn't then still though. But the heat that didn't bother me, the long hours is what was difficult in that 26 hours. I'm not guarding that whole time. But I'm on duty doing a variety of tasks, I might get off a shift literally in the summertime. On an average day in the spring and summer during heavy public viewing hours, we got public refined ceremonies in between guard changes. And then we have public briefings and then private tours from general sellin cells, families visiting and wants the VIP tour. So on average, and I might get about five minutes out of every hour to pee poo and refill just stuffed in my mouth with water and something salty and nutritious to build the fuel get through the next hour. And on and on and on with even after the 26 hours. It's just we figure that we walk about a marathon during the day on a typical schedule. And then at night, we do capital runs will run to like the US Capitol and back. I really didn't like those nights I didn't like cardio night. That was a 10 mile run at night. And we would do all sorts of other exercises in the nighttime. When there's no public there, we can train as a group. And we figured that we walk a marathon worth during the day and steel plated shoes custom made steel plated shoes, it gives them the distinct sound that is reminiscent of the spurs of which the horse Calvary first guards were horse cavalry soldiers. So we have these custom metal shoes made, which are not comfortable. They're not designed to be comfortable, nothing comfortable about this. So I walk a marathon during the day and then run a marathon that night, all within 26 hours report at 530 in the morning, and then get off usually, ideally by 730 sometimes falls into 830 The next morning, and then I'm off duty for, you know 2122 hours. But I still have my uniform to prepare for the next work day. And we hand shine our shoes, we don't use patent leather, you know the permanently shiny stuff. We hand shine the call special on we don't use spare, we use distilled water. But that takes an average of three hours a day to maintain the shine. So altogether, we spent an average of six to eight hours of that 21 hours off prepping our uniform. And that doesn't account if I got to go to the dentist or get anything done. Take a shower, anything for sleep. Oh, that's not included. Any of that has to be done in that remaining maybe 1514 hours that's left. So I worked in excess of 120 130 hours a week and it was revolving every day and I had to get a fresh haircut I shaved from below my shirt line to above where the hat line was everyday big razor all the way every workday literally it amounted to 20 haircuts a week. And you did all This for three years, three and a half out of my four year enlistment I spent at the tomb. As you

Steve Fast

10:05

continue to do this all this time, did it change anything about the way you thought about the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier about the people that are in tomb there? And about the cemetery itself? You said, You've done a lot of research about the cemetery and the people who are interred there. Was there a lot of time to think when you were taking those 21 steps? Did your mind one? What was it like? How did that process of doing that stick with you?

Matt Kreeb

10:35

Good question. A lot, a lot of time to think particularly at night, when you're just standing there by yourself. And literally, like a 2am shift. You stand there by yourself for two hours and don't see another human being there might be a squirrel or raccoon rustling around in the leaves back there, you hope it's a raccoon, not some perpetrator that's not supposed to be there, right? We drugged many people out at night. But at least the first year, my mind didn't have opportunity to wander in that there is so much going on. I compare it to like a duck on water. On the surface. The guard is stoic and appears serene. He's completely like almost like a robot. But I'm thinking I'm always counting the 21 in my head like a metronome going off, tick, tick, tick, tick, and then turn, every piece of posture down to the position of each knuckle on my hand has to be a proper posture. I'm being watched by my superiors under camera, and we have higher ranking sentinels position in civilian dress, their camouflage, so to speak, that there they got stopwatch, they're checking my 20 ones, and they're checking the position of my rifle. If my elbows getting lazy, if my I'm drooping a shoulder or something, all that's been recorded, and I'm gonna get in trouble if something's off. Your 20 ones are too fast, too short. There's any number of things with experience comes proficiency. With proficiency, then the mind can wander a little bit, and not so much wander during shifts, but what really changed my life. Arlington changed my life and life Absolutely. 100% 19 years old. Before I joined the army I was I was a teenage alcoholic. The Army straightened me out. But what really changed my life was studying the individuals. I had a wonderful mentor that particularly during night hours, we had more liberty for exercises, right? One exercise that Sergeant Bosco would have me do. He'd hand me a piece of printer paper and a cran with the paper torn off and you get a whole box, a little QR answer. And he'd have a stopwatch out Kribi go take a rubbing of Ralph Christiansen, go and he hits the stopwatch. So number one Arlington is is 640 42 acres. At that point, it's expanded since I got to know where and these see a 400,000. Plus headstones is Rothbury that, in the dark. I got to build a navigate, you know streetlights there's no public. So I'm in this massive cemetery looking. So but I'm under time. So he knows roughly how long it should be reasonably take to get back and forth to get that Robin, I get back. And the piece of paper is just enough to get a rubbing of the stone, you imagine rubbing, taking a piece of paper on the stone rope the crane over it, and you get the name, a data service, and maybe their highest citation such as a Medal of Honor. So I get back and I put the crane back in the box and Sergeant bosses have not tomorrow, gravy, you're going to tell us all about Mr. Christiansen did for our country. And this is back before the days of Google. So I had to go to the library. I didn't learn how to use the library in high school. I wasn't a reader. I wasn't a researcher. But I had to as part of the position again duck on water. There's a lot going on underneath the surface. I had to go and learn about these individuals and the common theme hundreds and hundreds and hundreds every day. I was researching these individuals was somebody that was 19 years old in a foreign country that did something insane like throw themselves on a hand grenade in order to save a handful of his comrades, and was given the Medal of Honor posthumously to is next to Kim. That was the common theme. Still in my 19 year old world where I'm working 24/7 Pretty much I have nothing to complain about when I consider the sacrifice of those, such as those who are taken rubbings of that doesn't even compare to the unknowns. The unknowns of the supreme sector First, not only did they give their lies, they get their identity. I had nothing to complain about, and everything to appreciate. That drove me that drove me to complete training which 90% of the best of the best in the United States Army that's hand selected for this position, quit. I'm the 500 and 10th. In American history, we're almost 700. Now today, it changed my life, it changed my perspective. And it gave me a sense of appreciation for this, this wonderful land that we call America. It's not so much a geography America is a concept. It's an idea, an ideal that we are constantly in state of evolution, trying to provide people I have children, I want the best possible world I want to leave this place better than why I found it isn't my mission in life, for my descendants, my children, my grandchildren, my great grandchildren, Nicholas, for everybody else, inscribed in the memorial amphitheater as part of the Gettysburg Address. So these dead shall not have died in vain. And I vow that the unknowns that their death will not be in vain, because we will continue to memorialize them. And ultimately, the public will remember the gift. In this country, we have the freedom, not just to do whatever you please but the freedom of safety, the freedom to say what you want. That's not enjoyed by most of the world. I'm not a proponent of the military. I'm actually a pacifist. I'm very, very thankful that I went through a health crisis. While I was at the tomb, couldn't figure it out. I was medically separated, and then eventually, retroactively medically retired, because I had a brain tumor, a massive, massive brain tumor. So I am the only guard to have actually walked at the tomb with a brain tumor. So all the guys that can say something, it's like they met this famous person, I've met a lot, a lot of famous people, a lot of wonderful people at the tomb. Many, many veterans,

Steve Fast

17:11

did you start to notice the symptoms, while you were what would happen?

Matt Kreeb

17:15

The biggest issue that my left leg was dragging my left leg was persistently not working correctly. This is after I had done many 1000s of ceremonies. I've been there for two years. In generally a Sentinel. If they make it through training, we like to see ideally a two years cycle where the Sentinel serves for two years, it takes about a year to become very proficient, and then the next year to replace themselves to teach the replacement to mentor the next generation. And so I've done my two years, and I was clearly having medical problems. I was also having these strange deals where I get vicious headaches to the point of vomiting. And based on my geographic location, again, in the Washington DC area, I was going to the premiere Military Hospital, the world Walter Reed Medical Center, right in Washington, DC, which was a heck of a drive I did not like going there because it was always awful traffic, lighting, right? They couldn't figure out my case. And long story short, they did surgery on both of my knees, didn't fix anything, then they looked a little higher. It's like, Oh, you got spine problems. I'd also been walking with three herniated discs in my lumbar spine. So they cleaned that up, didn't fix anything. They scoped down my throat. It's like, why is he vomiting? We don't know. This literally how the Walter Reed left means like, we don't know, we can't figure it out. Maybe the VA will figure it out. Long Story Short with my medical crisis is that I had very, very high grade brain cancer. Now pathology confirms three different high grade varieties. I've lost about a third of my brain mass. And today, and even though I was I was sent home officially terminal in April 2016, that I've refused further chemotherapy. I took 57 rounds of chemotherapy and all the radiation that my that was allowed to human person, I refuse further of that kind of treatment. It made me so sick, you know. And I said, I'm gonna do this differently. And I did more holistic treatment. And Mayo Clinic in Rochester confirmed me cancer free, but I still have ramifications having lost cell that brain mass, so I have to deal with some circumstances. But ultimately, I'm cancer free today. I'm living a very full life limitations. Sure. But if I start to have a bad day and think about how sorry I feel for myself, then I think about some of those that are buried in Arlington, like the unknowns, what they experienced in our hardest of hard days. My misery is nothing in comparison to some of the horrors that they faced.

Steve Fast

19:56

Your recovery is an amazing story and it's certainly for provide some perspective to say the year you think about the having a duty, even though I mean, things must have felt pretty bleak at certain points when you talk about the severity of your cancer. So have you ever gone back to the tomb in civilian life,

Matt Kreeb

20:12

I don't go back every year to visit but an average of every we have a reunion every two years. And all the days that I spent working, and even as a civilian going back to visit for our reunions of tomb guards, the most significant one was this past year, the centennial. So this centennial was a unique time where it's a 100 year commemoration from 1921 establishment to Veterans Day, November 11 2021. And I was out in DC for a week, we had many, many different things to attend to business and our society, a fraternal group of former guards like myself, we gather together we, we do scholarship programs for college students, they read, we're out here for all these different things. And it's such a unique occasion and the tomb guard is always front and center. People by the millions come and visit Arlington National Cemetery. They come busload after bustling after busload to come, Darlington they want to change into the guard. And I've been taught my whole life, that's the significance of the tomb is the tomb guard to which goes against the grain of what we as sentinels feel such great affection for the unknown. So even though these are remains of people we've never met, we don't even know their names. But the symbolism of their highest sacrifice, we render the highest honor the highest gratitude, the highest, the highest sort of, of appreciation, we can express to the unknowns because they represent the supreme sacrifice. So it's always been about the tomb guard, Intel, November 9, and 10th. I don't know who dreamed this up, I really don't, I just witnessed this happen. And this is the most significant event at the tomb that I've ever seen of the 1000s. So they literally took the tomb garden, this black mat that we walked across, they put it on the other side of the tomb, so that the public could come in lay a rose or flower, right on the Crips of the unknowns right there, right up and close, they could reach out and almost touch the tomb, they weren't allowed to actually touch but they were allowed to take a moment and lay a flower at the tomb. And I thought, I don't want to be anywhere near that mess. There's going to be so much public, it's just going to be a mess. But a friend of mine that we were sharing the hotel room with, he really wanted to go and I had a car because I drove it. I didn't want to go. But he did. It's like alright, fine, we'll go. And I'll just kind of stay back away from the crowd. This is at the end of the day, technically, the cemetery was closing. And so the crowds were minimizing. And I come up over the crest of the hill, and I could see the tomb. There were so many people, the public on their own volition came out to honor the unknowns, the flowers were heaped up, flowers kept coming and coming and coming, there were three semi loads of flowers spread around the tomb, the piles kept getting deeper and deeper, the head that volunteers go up and scoop up armloads and keep carrying them and lay them on piles in a big perimeter surrounding the tomb semi loads of flowers, I've never seen so many flowers and all my life. So I see this from the distance, I see the tomb. I mean, there must have been about four or five feet deep of flowers, first of all compacted down, and I see the public for the first time I always seen public at the tomb. They're watching the guard change. Ninth and 10th There are no guard changes. The guard stone guard, he's just in the background, the guard is out of the way in the public showed up by the 10s of 1000s. Epic numbers I've never seen before to take their moment to honor the unknowns, not because it was some political thing to do. There was no political affiliation on that Plaza. We are simply Americans and I laid my flower. And that was the most significant flower that I've ever related that to because we were united as Americans. There was a common ground, a common place where we could join as Americans all walks, all ages, all colors, whatever, honoring our heritage, taking a moment to express gratitude to those who paved the way for our blessed life today. And I vow that we will carry the torch forward. As long as there's breath in my lungs. I will carry this torch forward, whatever it looks like. That was the most spectacular moment at the tomb I've ever seen.

Steve Fast

24:59

Less pretty mazing Matt, I don't think we hear enough stories about that sort of thing happening in this day and age with all the divisiveness we see on television and the internet and everywhere else. Where do you find yourself now? What are you doing now in your life, after having this formative experience and then going through this health crisis? What's happening now for Matt? Well, I

Matt Kreeb

25:19

went, I went back to school, I went to grad school, I finished seminary, which is a graduate degree out of Lincoln, Lincoln, Illinois, I've run a small real estate business, I have rental properties, I manage for my own properties, as well as some other people and variety of what are called ministerial acts. As far as the business goes, that's a profitable business. I am in process of transitioning, trying to hopefully figuring out what the next chapter looks like, for the last 15 years, I did not have a consideration of what next year could look like because I wasn't going to be here a year from now. The prognosis of the disease has an average lifespan of 11 months, and I'm almost 18 years. So I'm a long term survivor, which is unheard of almost it's a medical anomaly. My doctor he calls him medical Imam Sal, it's a miracle. Why God, oh, I'm trying to figure that out. Why did God choose me, I have found satisfaction. The greatest satisfaction I've found in life is volunteer work. Like at the tomb, I was going to get paid, you know, $1,000 a month, which is not much bacteria, whether I was sitting in the barracks playing a video game, or I was investing 22 out of 24 hours a day at the tomb. But it was so much more satisfying than playing a video game. I no longer want to work for profit. Because of the brain tumor, a brilliant person could not have schemes, such a plan, the army, the tomb did not give me a brain tumor. But because it manifested while I was on active duty, I'm given essentially full retirement benefits. And even though I have some residual issues that I have to live with, and deal with and compensate for, I've got a reasonable size, pension and no debt. So I aspire at this point, though, I've made my career, my personal career. I'm not a wealthy man. I've made my career in real estate. And I've owned and sold, bought and sold a lot of houses now aspire to be homeless, so that I can travel more widely to volunteer myself full time for zero compensation. One organization disaster service, I'm planning a trip for July, disaster services often, there's a couple particular services I work with, there's constant hurricane, and forest fire issues, California forest fires. I was in Alaska last summer rebuilding houses after forest fire. Been on the Gulf Coast a couple times going back. We're planning Kentucky to rebuild houses in Kentucky, where the were the tornadoes destroyed many homes. I'm taking a church group in July. We're coordinating that right now. So I aspire to be able to do that on a full time basis.

Steve Fast

28:13

Well, I got to tell you, the resiliency that you've talked about from being somebody that stuck with that difficult duty despite your health issues for some time to going through that incredible battle that you must have had with cancer to doing what you do now. I can't thank you enough for taking some time to talk to me today and to be part of this interview and podcast.

Matt Kreeb

28:36

Thank you so much for everything, Steve,

Steve Fast

28:38

thank you very much.

Steve Fast

28:45

Matt cream served in the US Army as Sentinel at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and Arlington National Cemetery from 2002 through 2005. He's a featured speaker at the hawk talks seminar event at Heartland Community College coming up later this April. If you're interested in hearing other conversations about personal stories, history, and much, much more. Check out other episodes of our random acts of knowledge podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you found this one. Thanks for listening

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