Hello. Okay, so Carly asked a couple of really great questions, some of which are a little bit more nuanced some of which. And I said this to her, but just so everybody's on the same page, or I said this in the comment some of which the great question, and you want a little bit more foundation first. So we want to get through the next couple weeks. So that one answer makes sense. And to the answers of the question requires a certain level of education, understanding and that level of educational understanding is going to come in the next like, one to five weeks. So you know, don't put the cart before the horse, so to speak. But the question that I do want to answer, or rather the question that is, okay, and not reckless and irresponsible, and or putting the cart before the horse to answer now was the question around calling in versus out? So she said, Can we unpack the term reading on my phone? Can we unpack the term calling in versus calling out and up and an example of how you might do this in the real world? So you know, we're Team full transparency, I've never heard the term calling out and up. So the end up part is, that's actually terminology and language I've never heard before. We talk about calling in versus calling out. So when we think about calling in versus calling out, it's actually really simple. Calling in is an action that is an invitation to learning it is an invitation to expansion, it is an invitation to doing better, and calling out is just naming a thing. Sometimes, let me let me back this up. That terminology. And that phrasing has very much been co opted, that I'm surprised by white people. So this whole like calling in versus calling out has been co opted. And now white folks are trying to use the quote unquote, call out to they've weaponized calling people out. There is nothing inherently wrong with calling someone out. We have to be really, really mindful of the way in which that language has been weaponized. Because what is happening is that folks with Googled marginalized identities, are telling white folks like, hey, the thing that you're depending on the dynamic, right, the person that holds the privileged identity, they're saying, like, hey, person that has the privileged identity in right opposition to my marginalized identity, the thing that you're doing or saying right now is a problem like harmful Could you not, and then the response that they're getting is white tears, white shame, guilt, or obviously, if it's, you know, men, male, female, dynamic, male, identifying female identifying dynamic, you can have like, toxic masculinity, all sorts of right, really, really problematic systemic things. But essentially, what's happening is that people are hiding behind this language around like calling out or the vilification of who to call out to try to one deflect or defend themselves. And or try to then essentially, like flip the script, and have the person who holds the marginalized identity, who has signaled that there is a problem to all of this emotional labor to then make the person who holds the mainstream identity feel better. That's the problem. Right? It is perfectly okay, for people who hold marginalized identities, who are being harmed by something that is happening, to respond and react emotionally. And I'm just explicitly saying this, to respond and react emotionally to respond and react out of trauma, it is not their responsibility to make somebody who holds a mainstream identity feel better about the harm that they are causing. So this idea of like the call in versus the call out, in and of itself now, right, like in this moment, and 2020 has actually really become a problem. Because as I said, it's been co opted and the call out like that language has been used to mean something else. And it's really been weaponized against folks who hold marginalized identities inherently at the foundation. What I teach is whether you're calling someone in or calling someone else, you want to be mindful, just of what you're ready to engage in, right. So traditionally, the call and again was like, Hey, here's an invitation. So an example of a way to do this. And the call in I'll take another step back the call in is really reserved for people who hold the same identity, privileged identity as you do so if like you're a white person talking to white person, if you're a person of color talking about this color and or a person who holds a mainstream identity to your marginalized identity, that you are kind of explicitly ready to like guide a little bit more through a process, not placing yourself as the expert. Right. So I'll explain that. So let's say a white person does something harmful. My column to them might be
signaling, like, Hey, you might want to be mindful of the language that you're using, that's actually really problematic. It can be triggering, or it's rooted in XYZ, totally get that maybe you didn't know that open to have a conversation, or here are some resources. Perfect example, I hold an identity, right? I am from a tribe, an actual real tribe. And there are people who, and this is not race based, right. This is whether you hold a tribal true tribal identity or not. There are folks who do not hold tribal identities that are using tribe and marketing that are like, Oh, that's my tribe, oh, instead of like, those are my people or whatever, or like, you know, you just you see it all the time. And it's really, really fucking problematic. Actually, we have a couple of podcast episodes on it. And now's not the time or the space to get into that whole diatribe. But when I see that, I always signal I'm like, yo, that's really problematic. Like, if you don't actually hold a tribal identity, then you are both co opting, and in some cases, a conic. appropriating as well as commodifying a very real way of life that has been historically oppressed and erased by colonialism, imperialism, you know, the settler settler.
Colonies, like, I'm kinda like using different places in the world, like the, basically why people came in, took over, right, like, whatever sociological word that you use, that's the phenomenon, right? So you're co opting a word that means something to people who actually hold a tribal identity, it means something very specific. And like most things that have been co opted or appropriated or commodified, it has been separated from its true meaning it's been separated from those who truly hold that identity. And is, and those people who hold that identity have either been vilified or erased or their way of life, their culture, their tribal identity has been wiped out. And yet, folks who do not who are not impacted by that harm, are now benefiting from the use of the word. So huge fucking problem. There in certain situations, I'm calling people out. So I'm calling them out, meaning like, Hey, don't do that. knows a full sentence, I don't know you and explanation, I don't have the energy people pay me. Now granted, I'm not saying any of those things to them, I'm just explaining to you the thought process behind the call out a call out is just letting you know, that's a problem, don't do it. No conversation. Now, everyone has their own tips and tools and tricks to guide those conversations. Typically, the rubric that I follow is really simple. There's a thing that's happening, I'm going to name the thing that's happening, and that it is wrong. Period, end of sentence, the person might Buck back, it's on social media, they might pop off the comments, if it's in person, they might fall apart, or they might want an explanation. And remember, I'm just calling them out, which means it's not an invitation for me to do any sort of education around it. So my response in that case would be, you know, I'm not available to educate you around this. You know, there are tons of resources. In my case, I would say I have podcast episode that is free that you can listen to, and or Google is free. And I urge you to go and really, you know, question your use and start to do some research on your own, be blessed. And then I just walk away from the conversation? Because I've made it very clear. You know, that's a problem. And I'm not available to do the emotional labor or free education around it. Again, in my very specific case, I then say, should you want to have a one on one session to talk about this specifically, I'm happy to invoice you, where would you like me to send that email address? If this is not the work that you do as it is not? I obviously would then you know, at most say like, I'm not an expert in this and or even if you do feel comfortable, right? Like, I'm not going to engage in this conversation with you. However, you want to frame that.
Google is free. There are people I urge you to do the education on your own. That's a call out name. It sets a boundary around it. calling somebody in is typically again reserved for folks that you know, personally. Maybe somebody who does share the same social identity right like Mainstream identity as you do, or even if it's marginalized, like you guys have that common shared identity shared experience, and it is really a choice your own, whether you want to extend that invitation or not. Because ultimately, both of them are opening a door, if both of them are signaling that the thing that is being settled down as a problem,
both of them urge the person to continue to do their own education around it. Both of those both of the tactics, let the person know that you are not okay with the thing that was just said or done. And it doesn't have to be a fight. It doesn't have to be right like me saying, hey, you know, if you and I actually asked in certain situations, do you hold a tribal identity? And if the person says no, then I say, Okay, well, you really should not be using it's highly problematic. Not making evaluation on them, it's no judgement wrapped in. So ultimately, they're really the same thing. It's just that one, again, is a boundary of like, not going to do this work, not going to do a free emotional labor, I am not available for this, and or sometimes a call and ends up turning into a call out because you open up the door. And then as we talked about previously, on the last call, I think Julian brought it up where there was like resistance to conversation, right? What critical consciousness conflict, where you call somebody in and you're like, hey, here's all these cool resources, yo, like, I didn't know this, either. I didn't know that the word tribe was a problem, either. Or, hey, I want you to do better, because I care about you, as a person happy to point you in the direction of some resources, or this program that I took, or this podcast or whatever the and, and also making it clear, you're not an expert. This is not the work that you do, right, because you don't want to then Co Op the educational experience. And then, you know, letting them know, but this is what I do know, this is how I understand it totally happy to like, share the resources with you that I learned this from or the people that I typically, you know, gain knowledge and education from. But if all that happens, and the person is resistant, and they're like, how do you whatever, right, like it's very clear, and the example that we used on the call, it was right, very clear that the door is closed, the door is not unlocked, the door is not open, there's no space for really bringing them in, they're not receptive to being brought into the, you know, fold of equity, then that's when you have to know how to shift from, okay, well, this was about to be an invitation. But since you're hostile or you're not receptive, or you're not really ready to hear me and to learn, I now need to revert to step two of the call out, which is establish a clear boundary, like, Okay, well, I'm not available for this conversation in this way. And again, you get to expand as much as you want to, this doesn't feel safe, I don't feel honored, I'm not really feeling respected, you're incredibly hostile, you don't seem like you're, you know, really receptive, you get to decide that that is up to you. But the, again, the difference is an invitation to conversation. That's like an inquiry together, and or, you know, pointing somebody in the right direction. And then on the other side of it is like, Hey, that's a problem. Also not going to talk to you about it, for whatever reason. So I'm gonna stop talking now, because that was 13 minutes long. If you're joining late, go back to the beginning. Because there's a lot here. If you If y'all have any questions about this, or need additional clarity, please let me know I will either do a secondary video or just answering the comments. But that was a really great question. And a lot of it really just comes down to knowing how you want to engage in certain spaces. divesting from the need, we like this kind of perfect, he talks about a let's call divesting from the need to like fix everyone, or be the teacher in every situation. And really making sure that you're also establishing like boundaries and rules of engagement around all of this so that you protect your peace so that you can truly be an accomplice and like sit in your commitment in in a way that feels good and energized and authentic. And, and all of that was good. I just saw Thank you. I'll go back to the beginning because I caught it late. Oh, good. Yeah, go back to the beginning. If you have any additional questions, let me know. Okay, that's it. I mean, I'm sure I'll see you in the Facebook group, like in an hour y'all, but if not, I'll see you next week.
