How She Does It is proudly supported by iShares, a global leader in ETFs. What always gives me peace of mind as an investor is having a reliable partner by my side, one with innovative strategies and global expertise. iShares is the leading platform to explore how ETFs can be an important part of your unique investing journey. Learn more@ishares.com Hi, everyone, thanks so much for joining us for how she does it, where we talk about all things women, money and power. I'm Karen finer, I have to admit, I'm not the type of woman who gets excited about doing my makeup or getting dressed up for an event. I've spent my life playing sports and in middle school, I spent most of my time with the boys and even enrolled in the boys PE class. I was a competitive tennis player who began playing at sixth through my teenage years. Though becoming a professional athlete wasn't in the cards for me. The determination grit and perseverance of women who compete professionally have always impressed me.
Truthfully, I see a lot of similarities between the skills you need to succeed as a professional athlete. And those you need to thrive as a professional on Wall Street or any street. We're gonna dig into all those things today with Diana Nyad, not only the first woman but the first person to complete the 110 mile swim from Cuba to Florida without the protection of a shark cage. She did all of that at age 64. On her fifth try no less. In addition to being an unbelievable athlete, and I know this firsthand from playing tennis with her and against her. She's also an incredible example of the power of the human spirit. Diana came forward about her years of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of her swim coach, and has changed 1000s of women's lives by telling her story. Diana story will also be the subject of a new Netflix movie coming out later this year starring Annette Bening as Diana and Jodie Foster as her longtime collaborator and trainer. Bonnie stole a quick note to our listeners. Since recording this episode, sag AFTRA went on strike over an ongoing labor dispute with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television producers. Though we do discuss Diana Nyad upcoming biopic titled Nyad in this episode, we recorded it in late June before the strike began on July 14 2023. We hope you enjoy the conversation. Diana, thank you so much for being with us today.
Karen is my pleasure. I just hope we don't go too deep into financial issues, because you'll be very disappointed at my lack of expertise in that area.
Fair enough. So as I mentioned, Diana, we play tennis together, and I feel like I'm lucky enough to call you my friend. Nevertheless, as I was preparing for this podcast, I immersed myself in all things, Diana, and well, I didn't know that you were kicked out of Emory University for jumping off a building with a parachute. But I have to say knowing you I didn't find that. Also surprising. Is that a true story.
You know, it's gotten to be an urban myth at this point. But it was the four storey window. It wasn't a off the top of the building. It was a desperate plea for attention. We can make fun of it, honestly. But the truth is when the sexual abuse by that coach that you mentioned already was finally over. When I graduated from high school, I could get away from him. I was lost. I just I didn't belong anywhere I had lost, you know was now not going to be a swimmer anymore at that point I didn't know is gonna be a distance swimmer. So it sounds funny parachuting out of a window. The truth is it was not a suicide attempt. But it was a it was a cry. It was me saying I'm lost. I don't know who I am. And I'm doing foolish things.
So interesting. That led to you going to another school where you began Is that where you began distance swimming?
Not at a school? No, I went to Lake Forest college north of Chicago. And it was a great experience. But it really was when I moved to New York City to go to graduate school. I went to NYU for for a comparative literature and I was just swimming in the Columbia University pool one day and a graduate student friend of mine said Nyad I see that beautiful, powerful stroke of yours. I see you've got the fire in the belly still. Do you know there's a sport called marathon swimming, open water swimming. And the earth after all is a blue planet. It's something like four fifths water. So there are people who stand on the edges of the Manhattan Island sidewalks or swims on the Red Sea and Egypt. We could name places all around the world. A gun goes off men and women together, swim to get to the other side. They don't make much money, but it's a tremendous building of character and friendship, seeing the world and the oceans of the World. So it really wasn't until after college that I started the marathon swimming.
And did you look at that, at that time in your life as you were healing also? Oh, I
don't know, that's such a deep question. I mean, you know, I'm 73, about to be 74. And I'm pretty darn happy and confident and the world is my oyster. And on the other hand, does anyone in any trauma ever get to a point where you say, I just don't think of it anymore. It's completely over. It's not part of me. I wish it weren't part of me. But there is still an edge of shame. There's still an edge of anger all these decades later, and that coach is now deceased. I can't say where the healing stops.
So obviously, you've moved on in your life and done some extraordinary things. But I also want to hear about growing up your family story.
It's a mixed story, really, and that is that I tried to have perspective, there are 8 billion people living on planet Earth now. And half of them don't have enough water to drink every day, don't have a shelter over their head. So I am not going to claim lack of privilege and lack of adventure. My life has been filled with joy and opportunity. I did not grow up. You mentioned my best friend Bonnie. And I know you know her family somewhat. But Bonnie came from a loving cohesive family where everybody told the truth and supported each other. And they're still that way to this day. That was not the family I grew up with. I grew up with a con artist, Father Nyad had his strong suits. He was a wonderful storyteller. He was a Bovee vol, women loved to dance with him. Men love to play cards with him. And he was a lot of fun.
And on the other hand, he was a thief, he was a liar. And we couldn't trust him at home. Nothing he said was the truth. But he got our family in a lot of trouble financially, people started coming to the house at midnight, one o'clock in the morning, and when be away on one of his suppose it business trips. And my mother finally divorced him, it was hard for her. But she believed that he was dragging us down. So I have tended now in my older age to look back at the fun side of him, and the parts of him I inherited, which was that storyteller, and that Bovie vol side, and my mother, but I don't think ever told a lie in her entire life. She grew up in France, and I got that wonderful French language and sensibility from her. But she was a meek character, she didn't stand up to my father, she didn't stand up to anybody. And I kind of took over, that was the ruler of the house after a while. So I can't pay the picture of a tragic family situation when I say lots of people in this world live a tragedy every day. On the other hand, I didn't grow up with a fuzzy, warm family life and I think swimming was my salvation. I could get in that pool or even get out in the ocean. And just forget about everything that was dragging me down.
So you've obviously been an incredibly resilient person. And you've had a lot of hats as an athlete, a sports journalist, a public speaker, a writer. But let's get to that giant thing about you that most people know best marathon swimmer, in your late 20s. You swam around Manhattan, that's a 28 and a half mile swim. And that was a very big deal, particularly at that time. And just for comparison, the Ironman portion of the swim is only 2.4 miles, so over 10 times that. Then, what made you decide after that, to make that first attempt to swim from Cuba to Florida, you're in your late 20s. Obviously, you have some incredible knack for marathon swimming. But what made you decide to do that,
that started very, very early. I mentioned that I grew up in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I was born in New York City and had New York and my heart. My mother had been from Paris. I had Paris in my heart. But the truth is nature wise. I grew up with a warm Gulf Stream ocean, right off Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And when I was nine years old, Karen, the Cuban Revolution broke out. And literally overnight in 24 hours, 1000s of Cubans flooded into my hometown. Literally in one day. We're speaking Spanish. We're flying the Cuban flag. We're eating Cuban food. We're dancing salsa in the back of our Cuban friends backyards. So that island that right across our shores where JFK and Jackie used to go over to party were my parents dance at the hotel Nasional, that island with a Cuban architecture and the old American and 50s cars in one day became forbidden. And our town, Miami, the Gold Coast area of Florida. We became fascinated with with the mystique of that magical island of Cuba. And at age nine, I was already a little competitive swimmer. I was on the beach one day. And I said to my mother, Mom, where's Cuba? I know what's out there. It's right out there, but I can't see it. And she said, it's right, there is just Ocasio Ryzen is just down you cannot see it. But you, you little champion swimmer you, you could almost swim there. So honestly, not in a concrete way. But in a floating imaginative way. Cuba and swimming between these two forbidden lands was in my soul from the time I was nine years old.
Something else in your soul, which I know is your last name Nyad. And you were the one who told me that the word Nyad actually means champion swimmer spelled a little differently than your Nyad. Although maybe in another language, it's spelled your way. But that's kind of destiny as well. I mean, when you learned that, did you just think, yes, this is what I'm destined to do? Well, I don't know if I thought it
but my father thought it I was five. The day I turned five on my fifth birthday. He called me into the den. He had the big Webster's version of the dictionary open. And he read for me, he said Camilla, darling, I'm going to read for you look here, your name, you are going to go to your little preschool tomorrow, darling, you are going to ask them is their name in the dictionary? They're going to tell you no, you are the only one listen Nyad. And he read to me that the first definition the classic Greek mythology definition, is the nymphs that swam in the lakes, rivers and oceans, the dryads were in the desert. The triads were in the forests, and the Niaz were in the seas and the fountains and the lakes and the rivers. And the second more modern definition of Nyad is girl or woman, champion swimmer. So I came upon that definition at the age of five, became a pool swimmer with a bunch of little kids not too long after that. But I always did walk around saying, Yep, I'm Greek. My father is Greek. And he tells me that my name means champion swimmer. So Karen, I'm in all those eponym books where people, Dr. brain becomes the neurosurgeon, I have lived out the meaning of my name.
It's a good one, I tell you, whenever I do the spelling bee, which is every day and I have those letters, and AI, D, I can mix them up, put in Nyad. I feel like oh, not everyone knows that. And I always think of you when I do it. So let's go back to this first attempt. So you made the first attempt at the Mount Everest of swims, the Cuba swim, but after 42 hours and 79 miles, you were blown desperately off course. And your dream was unfulfilled. And you didn't swim another stroke for 30 years. Is that right? Well, not
really. I had tried that swim, as you say, in 1978. The next year 1979. I had trained again, because Cuba was the swim. That was the Holy Grail for me. And it is for a number of swimmers, as you call it, the Mount Everest is the most difficult swim on the planet. The next year, we couldn't get in, we couldn't get visas. We couldn't get the weather, right. So I did swim from the island of Bimini to the shore of Florida. And that took a little under 30 hours. And that's fine. It's an achievement, but it wasn't Cuba. And the next year 1980. We once again could not get visas to get into Cuba. I was starting to get offers from the Wide World of Sports as an announcer. And so I left my beautiful Cuba swim behind and at that point, bomb 1980. I didn't swim for 35 years. And so I took it back up at the age of 60.
So when you started training again, you said that you didn't tell anyone first. But your friend started noticing you're getting a little more tan. You're having those goggles shaped tan lines around your eyes. Did you think people would discourage you from trying again? Or why did you try to keep it a secret?
Well, I wanted to find out if I had it in me. It's one thing to maybe get the shoulders back in shape. I had stayed in very good shape. I'd like to save some from the age of five. I've been in good shape my whole life. I became a cyclist and we do 100 mile ride every Friday. So I was doing all kinds of different exercises. But I wasn't a swimmer anymore. And swimming takes a very particular physique and a very particular type of training. You can be in the greatest running Shape The best marathon runners in the world have gotten into pools and felt ill after just two laps swimming is a different animal. And so I wanted to see if I had it in my heart, in my body in my soul to do this swim before I started announcing it to anybody. And Bonnie was the first one I told. I said, I've been swimming every day because she did, as you say, start noticing the goggles marks. And I said that old dream that Cuba Dream, which honestly, Karen, the Cuba dream was never really about swimming. It was about chasing my potential. Who can I be? How tough can I be? how resilient to pain? Can I be? Can I stick with this all these long hours probably going to take 50 or 60 nonstop hours out in the open sea. So I told Bonnie after a few months of just doing pool laps. And once she was on board, we started going down to St Maarten in the Caribbean, and doing long 810 1214 16 hours swims.
It's just extraordinary. Was there something that made you think yes, I can do it this time? Or was it I don't know if I can or can't. But I know I kind of want to go down trying.
In the beginning it was the ladder, I had no idea, I'd have to see if the body would come back. But more than anything, I'd have to see if the iron will, that I had had as a younger athlete was still going to be there because you're not going to do it without a titanium will that just will refuse to go into failure no matter what disaster comes your way. So it took a while it took several long ocean swims. For me to say, I've got it. I've got it in every aspect. And all we need is some luck out there, which we didn't get tried a second time, a third time, a fourth time, each time. long, arduous sagas of pain and the unknown and dealing with the dangerous box jellyfish, etc. But I just knew that that swim was within my capabilities. And the team, Barney and the team had all their expertise world class, from the sharks, to the jellyfish to the navigation, which is very tricky across this body of water. All of them came together. And we did this together. You've talked a
lot about that your team that you built, I know it's sort of a family also. But so not only are you an inspiring swimmer, you have to be an inspiring leader, to get those people to believe in your dream to believe in you, which is really extraordinary in itself. But also, I can't help thinking because it's kind of what I do money stuff, it must have been pretty expensive. How'd you raise the money? Well,
it wasn't that hard. Honestly, I think that there are companies and there are individuals who want to be involved with resilience with people who just refuse to give up. When people who are chasing a noble dream and are willing to research it. Knowledge is power. And that was our group very smart, and everybody coming in with their factions of knowledge that we needed to get across. And so like I say, the corporate company secret came on very quickly. And we're willing to finance the entire thing. But we also had individuals online sending anywhere from $2 to $1,000. Just to be part of it. So I I was very honored by the support that we
got. And now we're going to take a quick break. When it comes to investing, there's nothing that brings quite as much peace of mind as having a reliable partner by your side. iShares the worldwide leader in ETFs can help you pursue your individual investing needs with global strategies, expertise and market insights. With over 12 150 innovative products iShares offers the tools you need to unleash your investing potential, including resources to help you explore how ETFs can be an important part of your portfolio. iShares understands that today's investor needs innovative and diversified solutions for a global market. Because after all, your life is unique. Shouldn't your investment strategy be to start your pursuit of financial well being with iShares today@ishares.com And we're back. So take us to your successful attempt. I don't know you're maybe 2030 hours in which in itself is extraordinary but only makes you about 27 hours I guess halfway there or so. Where does your mind go? I know you I've heard that you sing songs that you listen to nothing also as well. Do you feel like giving up ever? What do you do with your mind that must be bracing an entire But at the same time, yeah, well,
first of all, there's no giving up. I mentioned titanium will before. Once you start something like this. There's no space for giving up. That's not going to be an option. No matter what pain comes your way and I'll tell you something, Karen, I don't wish a sting by the box jellyfish is called the earache kanji syndrome, that little wispy, tiny tentacle that sweeps across your face that sends you into anaphylactic shock. They paralyze your central nervous system, you feel your spinal cord is in paralysis, it's a perfect killing machine is the most potent venom on all planet Earth, there's no snake that can take you down with his venom as quickly as the little one inch square cube of the box jellyfish. So there's no giving up in your mind. But I will tell you that I have a tremendous respect for all of the great adventures of planet Earth, whether you're snowshoeing across the entire continent of Antarctica, or you're climbing Mount Everest, if you're out there in that kind of danger. And that kind of long term suffering, but joy of being part of this planet, you have different issues. So I'm clearly not dealing with altitude sickness, I'm clearly not dealing with sub zero freezing temperatures.
But the biggest issue that I'm dealing with, besides the sea itself, is sensory deprivation. I've got these fogged over goggles over the eyes, I'm turning the head 53 times a minute, to see the boat and Barney over to my left by about 20 feet, I've got a tight cap over my head because you're trying to keep the heat in your head. And you are very quickly into a state of dreaming, and not remembering who you are and where you are. Like if you and I were just to sit right here, you sit at your desk, and I sit here at my desk for 52 hours and 54 minutes, let's just say we did it. And you've got some food and water in front of you. But you cannot go to sleep. And we're not going to talk to each other. No talking, no phone calls, no Googling, you're just going to sit here for 53 hours, I guarantee you the human mind is not geared toward concrete thoughts, you're not going to be thinking very long about, oh, when I get done, I'm gonna make myself a nice omelet, or, you know, I'm gonna go with my husband to go do this very, very quickly, you're going to be into the interior of your mind and you're going to be hallucinating and all kinds of childhood and other things are going to be flooding your brain.
And so I developed a series of counting, I you know, grew up with a lot of foreign languages. So I would count in different languages back and forth to get through the hours. And I developed a playlist of 85 songs. So I might be out there at two o'clock in the morning, you're not allowed to headphones, headphones are a cheat, because it's your mind you've got to have the power and the focus of your mind to get you through these numbing hours. So I'd be out there singing especially at night late at night, Neil Young, that falsetto voice and I know his songs very well. So I would choose let's say the needle in the damage done, I would choose that song and I'd sing it 1000 times the whole song from the first note to the last just the way Neil Young recorded it. So I'm singing in a row I'm out there singing I hear you knocking at my door I love you baby can have some move the damage done and when I get to 1000 damage DUNS I've gone more than 10 hours I've taken up more than 10 hours. That's the way the singing served me. That's a huge thing you're dealing with out there as keeping your mind in it remembering what you're doing. Because you just can't the old time say I'm getting there, you know how many more strokes you know you've got to be engaged in
the moment. So you're out there and then at some point you're sort of over the hump and approaching I don't know what's considered approaching the shore how far away Did you think I can see it?
No, no, no, there's an there's never such a thing as over the hump to something could have a you can be hit by a shark or a jellyfish. 20 feet from shore. You're never relaxed. You're never feel like oh, we made it. Let's celebrate there. The people you're just an hour away. Anything could happen, including you could finally collapse under it all.
So one thing I really have always wondered, did You ever doubt yourself after the swims that you weren't able to complete?
You know, I'll tell you I never did. I think it's because it wasn't me who was quitting on the four epic tries that we made. It was never me who raised my hand and said, It's too much. I didn't train enough or I bitten off more than I can chew. Nobody's ever going to do this swim. And I'm never going to do it. Even after those box jellyfish, and I'm telling you, that was a scene right out of a movie that you're about to see, in the fall, I could have, I should have died that night with what was going on with the triage with the emergency doctors. And as soon as we were quit, and on our way to Key West and disappointed, I said to Bonnie, you know what we got to do, Barney, we've got to find the leading world's expert in the box jellyfish. And Bonnie said, Can you give us a lousy 24 hours to celebrate everything we put into this, you're too much, you're exhausting. So I never did lose faith in it. And I think that's just a factor of personality, not necessarily this swim. And I think honestly, Karen, most of the people who have responded to this story, whether I'm out speaking or reading my book are seeing the documentary, and now they will see the feature film. Most of them are not swimmers, most of them are not athletes. They're not following marathon swimming. And I even said, This wasn't about marathon swimming. To me. It was all those precepts of dream big. Go ahead. And don't be afraid to fail, Chase big dreams, and you'll find out who you are, you'll tap down into every ounce of your potential. And if you don't give up, if you get up after you're knocked down, and get up after you're knocked down again, and again and again, one day, you'll make it to whatever your other shore is. And I think that's what I lived out loud. That is my personality, day by day. And that is what most people found for their own lives that they felt in this story. They don't want to give up on their dreams
either. So I often think about, you're in the arena, you're in it, you're in it, you know, they talk about the blood and the sweat and the tears you're in it. And the perseverance that titanium will is this such an extraordinary thing. Why do you think so few people have it, because so many people are inspired by it and are amazed by it, and would love to do it? I can count on one hand, the number of Diana nya type people I note and it's one, it's you, what makes you so different?
That's a big compliment. But honestly, I think if you and I sat down and thought about all the people we've met in our lives in different areas, from business, to medicine, there are so many extraordinarily brave, courageous people. I've been lucky and traveled to tribal areas of countries and been in the interior Borneo, and I've witnessed people who had a moment of childbirth when there's no other choice. But to make that childbirth happen right there without the midwife. Without the doctor, we do we rise to the occasion. I think humans are born with resilience and with desire to live big lives, it just may not look that dramatic as Serena Williams playing there last night match at the US Open. But that doesn't mean there's a woman down the street from me who lost her husband, she started to working two jobs didn't have much of an education. But she's the one who's decided to go around the neighborhood and collect funds and meals for another family who's in trouble even though she's working herself to the bone. I admire that woman tremendously. So it's not always big athletes who do things. I think that there is a power of the human spirit in almost all of us all individuals alive.
It sounds so inspirational the way you say it, and it is but it is also something extraordinary and rare. But I want to switch gears I touched earlier on the Netflix movie about your life and I want to get to that. So what has it been like to work with a net Benny? Playing you?
And Jodie Foster playing Bonnie Stoll? Were you surprised when they came to you with that story? Or did you work with them all through the movie? What was the whole experience like
Abani and I got to know both Annette and Jody for about seven months we all live here in Los Angeles so that was made it very easy before they ever started shooting in the Dominican Republic which was a year ago 2022 February March, April and May. That's when they shot the movie and Barney and I got to go down and watch it. It is surreal to watch two people be Come virtually more you than you are. So they were just magnificent in taking on our not just our haircuts but our entire beings. But when we sat down before the movie, the directors, the producers, Barney and I, and we made our list of who would be your number one choice. And by far, by far by far, Annette Bening and Jodie Foster were the two choices. You just can't come up with more storied actresses who are experienced, who are classy. These are movie stars who do not take the movie star mantle very seriously. They deflate that fame thing right away. And they're just people looking into your eyes.
When Annette first came to my house, my dog had just died. And the first thing she walks across my threshold, we grab each other, and we cry like babies, I had all the pictures of Teddy on a board. About a half hour later, I take her into my garage, and I put her up on the wall. And I started mock swimming like this saying to her, imagine you're me, and Jody is Barney. And I'm turning my head 53 times a minute for 53 hours and making eye contact with you day and night. And you don't go anywhere. Jodi is not going to move. And you are not going to lose faith that your soldier is there for you. And we had another big cry. So she had only been here an hour. And we had two giant cries over dogs and over the dedication of friendship. And this movie. Yes, it's about the Triumph of the Will. It's about chasing a big dream. It's about resilience and never giving up. But honestly, it's as much about this deep friendship between two women who just have decided to do something heroic, something dangerous, and something that would inspire the whole world. So the friendship is a big, big part of it.
Yeah, I want to get to that for a number of reasons. I've heard you say that your friendships have really been your family and really been that nurturing and warm, loving community that you need. But let's talk about Bonnie in particular who has been with you all the way so many roles in your life together last week, you showed me your tattoo. And Bonnie has the same one. How do you think about that relationship? And I'm so happy that they focus on in the movie because it is something extraordinary.
It is. And I think a lot of people can feel it. So many times I go places and people say to me, I have a Barney, you should meet my Barney. And we all know what that means. That person who who has gone with you through every step of the long road that we all travel. Bonnie and I met 43 years ago. And Karen I have to go research it but I don't believe there's another sports story men or women where there's been an athlete who was Bonnie, she was a talented Racquetball Player. She became number three on the pro racquetball tour, which racquetball was a big sport in the 1980s. And she was one of the big talented athletes. I became her coach. I taught her for the first time she learned about fitness training, and really becoming a superior physical being not just a rackets player. And now 30 years later, we flipped the story. And I became the athlete and she became the coach. And I don't know that that's ever happened for in the annals of sports history. We're lucky if we have children. We have mothers and parents and husbands and wives and partners. But a friend is another highly cherished, treasured valuable person in our lives. And I'm lucky I have two I have Bonnie and I have Candace, and we've gone through all these decades together. We're there for every fun and every deep moment that there is.
So you and Bonnie also started a nonprofit together called ever walk with the mission to build communities side by side, leaving our differences behind. The I'm a New Yorker, walking is in my DNA. But can you tell us why are you so passionate about getting people off their couches and walking together? What does that do for them besides the obvious health benefits? You know, I
think that, you know, when we got done with the Cuba swim, it was eccentric. But we were out there, and literally traveling over the curvature of the earth, out across this blue jewel of a planet. And we thought, Wow, can we lead people to have that sense of all of traveling on your own steam across planet Earth? And we decided walking walking is the common denominator way of people to feel what we were feeling out in the ocean. So we started leading walks. We walked from Boston, up to Cape Elizabeth May When we walked from White Rock, Canada, to Seattle, and just gathered hundreds of people walking with us, we developed a beautiful website ever walked.com. So we've just decided to embrace walking as our new swimming. So we're not setting any world records. We're developing a walking community to feel that even if you're just kind of low, you walk out the door, you come back an hour later, your endorphins are flowing, you feel the strength of your legs, you've waived a low to a few neighbors, and all is right with the world after a good walk.
I mean, you get 1000s of people following you, in these walks, being a part of it, that must feel good as well, just being a part of something that big.
It does. And we you know, it's not easy. We're a nonprofit. So we're a very modest little operation over here Garin, but we believe in it, we believe in every walk and after COVID When that was the only thing people could do. Whether you're in New York City or in Sacramento, California, at least you could get out and walk. And I think that walking has become more of the new national pastime. Like it used to be back in the in a different era since COVID happened. So we've got a lot of loyal fans that ever walk. But we're always trying to get more people to walk
with us. And now we're going to take a quick break.
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And we're back. So let's get to the lightning round questions here. So you might know this best is Would You Rather, the only challenge is that you can't think about these. You just have to say whatever comes to your mind at the moment. Okay, ready? Okay. optimist or pessimist? optimist? money or power? Power? French or Spanish? Ah, let's all say
I love Come on.
I know you speak both new young or Janis Joplin. Oh, I can't.
I can't. I'm 100% split. I can't No, I want to tell you something in the movie. You're gonna hear Janis Joplin in the movie singing, coma coma. I mean, and you're gonna hear Neil Young in there too. Oh, and it's great music
so How good is that? All right, some sports ones for you. Tennis or pickleball Oh plays
tennis.
Okay, tennis. It is I know okay. Oceans or pools.
Ocean ocean, the life the horizon.
Okay, the challenge the horizon, pasta or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, which I think you ate while you were swimming pasta, a real meal. Which do you prefer? Backstroke or breaststroke?
That never breaststroke ever, for even a moment backstroke?
Okay, jellyfish
are sharks who will take a shark any day?
Not that many people would say that, but I really believe it from you. Dive or backflip? A dive. beautiful swan dive. Okay, here's another one. Would you rather drive or be driven drive, laugh uncontrollably or be moved? laugh uncontrollably
sounds good.
Me too. That's one of my favorite things ever. Okay, this last one is an open ended question. What is the best investment you've ever made? And the worst investment you've ever made? And we have a very broad definition of what an investment is. Yeah. So I took typing in high school. That was a great investment.
Yeah, yeah, there you go. So this won't be a financial answer. But I built a cold tub in my back yard a cold plunge. I keep it at 38 degrees. best investment I've ever made. I use it every single day. Really? Yep. The worst investment I ever made was the stock of Krispy Kreme Doughnuts. A friend called me and said, I'm standing in this place with glee these doughnuts are coming off a conveyor belt. You've got to invest in this right away. I think the IPOs coming. So I invested in it. It was a horrible investment. And I should have known better because none of us should be eating or investing in doughnuts.
Okay, those are two excellent answers. Thank you so much for joining me today on how she does it. Thank you so much to Diana Nyad for her incredible story on perseverance and never giving up on your dreams. When you have a moment please follow us on Apple podcasts and subscribe to updates from the her money community at her money.com/subscribe Our producers are Catherine Tuggle and Haley Pascaline ease with the help from everyone at her money. This podcast is mixed and mastered out of CDM Sound Studios. Our music is from video helper and Our show comes to you through megaphone. Have a great week and I look forward to seeing you here with us again. Onward.
