You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 233. The point of purchase is just the start of your relationship with someone not the end. This sentiment is one of my favorite takeaways from my conversation with the founder of the Conscious Creator Academy, Giulia Guerrieri on building a world class customer experience for your course or program. So what happens on the other side of the Checkout button? Giulia is a content creator turned million dollar CEO and educator and her case study today examines the key changes she implemented when transitioning her program from a DIY course sold through live launches into an evergreen Academy with scalable DIY done with you and done for you components. Not only did her student results skyrocket, but within 13 months of prioritizing user experience. These programs shifts 15 extra revenue and made more than $1 million in cash.
Welcome to Cubicle to CEO, the podcast where we ask successful founders and CEOs the business questions you can't google. I'm your host, Ellen Yin. Every Monday go behind the business and a case study style interview with the leading entrepreneur who shares one specific growth strategy they've tested in their own business exactly how they implemented it, and what the results and revenue were. You'll also hear financially transparent insights from my own journey bootstrapping our media company from a $300 freelance project into millions in revenue.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. Today we have Giulia Guerrieri with us. Giulia is a content creator turned million dollars CEO who founded Conscious Creator Academy and I was telling her right before we hit record, I'm super excited to chat about her case study today. Because it's all about the product fulfillment or delivery side of the business. And this is often ignored. I feel like in in these contexts, because it's not as sexy as sales. It's not as exciting as the latest marketing strategy. But I really do believe that investing in improving your user experience is key to the longevity and the success of your offers in your business. So, Giulia, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Ellen, I am so honored to be here and just so excited to just chat with you. I love having these kind of conversations with like female entrepreneurs and even have like a listener. It's like you get all these little nuggets. So just really excited to dive in.
Thank you. I feel the same way. Honestly, I always say I had the best seat in the house, getting to interview brilliant founders like yourself. So really, the thanks goes to you for your time. Before we get into the case study and I reveal what that is. I would first love to hear your Cubicle to CEO story. What was that catalyst that led you into entrepreneurship?
Yeah, of course. So I started out as a financial advisor I was working in a bulge bracket bank right out of college and for me like my parents are immigrants, so like getting a really awesome and procedures corporate job felt like such an accomplishment for me. Both my parents are entrepreneurs. So I was like, I don't want to go down that path. I want to get the corporate job I want to you know, do things different. So funny looking back on that now, but you know, it was really just okay, like, I'm going to do the thing that's going to check the boxes in my life, right? I'm going to have all these qualifications on paper, people are gonna think I'm worthy. When I go out to a party or a dinner, you know, I'm gonna say I work at this bank and you know, people are gonna respect me. So that was honestly my motive for getting that job.
And I didn't realize that in the moment, until I became a CEO, myself. And my first steps as a CEO, were not very CEO like, and it was very, like, throw spaghetti at the wall, see what sticks do the thing. And I remember the day that I filed for my LLC, it was like eye opening. And when I quit my job, it was so scary. And I think a lot of people listening can probably resonate with that as well, too. And I think the scariest thing for me is that entrepreneurship has no guarantees. Right. And I watched his video once. And it basically said, if you're looking for a guaranteed path, entrepreneurship is not for you. There are no guarantees, right? It's high risk, high reward. So that was probably the hardest, hardest thing for me to overcome. And then once I kind of transmuted that from fear to like, this is fun, and this is exciting. There are no guarantees. So that means anything can be made out of this right, the world is my oyster. I feel like that's when things started to really go on the uptrend.
Yeah, and I love the way that you frame that, because it's true that you can kind of look at that lack of guarantee, and one of two ways. It's either, like you said Fear of the uncertainty, or it's dreaming of the possibility, and I totally can relate to being a child of immigrants. My dad is also an entrepreneur, so can kind of relate there, but he wasn't an entrepreneur for like most of my childhood. So it's interesting to me the fact that you actually grew up with two parents who modeled entrepreneurship to you. And yet, that wasn't the path that attracted you, at least at first, I just want to know, is there a particular reason you shied away from wanting to pursue entrepreneurship? Right off the bat? Was it something that you experienced, watching them as a kid that made you feel it wasn't right for you at first?
Yeah. So I think it was one of those things where, in my heart, I knew I was very entrepreneurial. So like, I was the kid that was like, when my friends came over, I'm like, let's have a lemonade stand. Like, let's make some money, let's do a garage sale. Like I just always had that. And it's kind of like that nature versus nurture. It's like, is it because I grew up around that or it's like, you're just kind of born with it. I don't know. And I think it's kind of fun that it's open for interpretation.
But I think, to me, it was like, my parents started a mom and pop local bakery in Long Island, which is where I'm from. And I kind of saw like the sweat, blood and tears that goes into that, that having a cubicle job, per se felt actually more attractive, because my parents were in the food industry. So you work holidays, you work weekends, my dad's a baker. So it's like you get up at 5am to bake bread. So it's like I saw that lifestyle. And I associated entrepreneurship with this, like hustle culture. And that's why I was like, Oh, well, I can rise the corporate ladder and get this really high paying corporate job. And I think too, it has to do with a lot of your environment. So the university that I went to was not very entrepreneurial, it was very, like get the best banking, job finance focused. So to me, I thought that's what success meant, and that season of my life,
Right? No, I can totally understand that. Especially, like you said, with your parents being part of the food industry, I mean, that's probably one of the toughest small business sectors out there. And so kudos to them for you know, their hard work and for at least instilling that spirit in you of of possibility and creativity and imagination. And I really am looking forward to seeing how you know, those experiences shaped the way that you approach user experience inside your program.
So for our listeners, the case study that we're going over today, is how Giulia created a world class user experience in her course, turned more of like a interactive program, and how to distinguish your own programs or your own courses from the DIY free content that people find on YouTube, which is often the number one thing that people who are afraid of selling their course might say like, well, what if someone asked me why can't I just find what you teach for free on YouTube? And, you know, I mean, that's such a it's such a surface level fear but you know, I always say like, of course, anything could be found for free on the internet. It's a matter of do you want to spend the time and the trial and error to to really drudge through all of that noise to to find the right answer. But for you, you turned your DIY course that used to be sold through live launches, and you turned it into an evergreen done with you Academy. By doing so you 15x your revenue and within 13 months of making these changes that we are going to uncover in today's case study. You made $1 million in cash from CCA did I get all the all the data right?
Oh, yeah, you got it so good. I'm like wow, I need to I need to and practice that, because that was really good.
Luckily, I have notes, I have some help. But okay, let's give some context to our listeners. First, the price point of Conscious Creator Academy. What is the price point? It's for creators, but like creators and what stage? What's the transformation?
Yeah, absolutely. So currently, the price point is 6800. And when we really had like the big growth spurt, it was 4800. So that's where the program really started. And then I'll explain why we raised the price. Because I think this is also a really good conversation for entrepreneurs, because people have a lot of fear around pricing. And I think you have to think about it more from that, like user experience level, which is like, okay, you can only grow in two ways. It's either more clients or raise the price and less clients. So that's kind of where the shift came from. So currently at 1600.
And the transformation of that program is helping content creators and coaches scale to six figures. So most of our people are really looking to hit their first 10k, in the first 90 days of our program, so it's pretty streamlined. But the program has actually attracted a lot of current entrepreneurs that want to scale bigger. So we have clients coming in making 5k a month. And then you know, one of our clients, Olivia started at 5k a month. Now she's at 40k, in 30 days with us. So what's really cool about this model, as well, that I've created, is that it can support people at all different levels. So it's like, we can have someone who's literally just getting started just with an idea, hit 10k, in 90 days, or we can have someone who's kind of already established, and they're like, I want to skyrocket.
So what the program teaches people is really how to get up to 60k a month, because everything that I did in that program is what I did myself, and that was my peak, before I had to hit the next level. And when I say next level, that's when I started hiring a team. So everything inside of CCA is for people who want to get up to 60k a month. And the reason why I love measuring it by revenue is because I'm so big on the numbers and cash flow and profitability. Because I think there's a lot of this jargon out there that's like, invest in yourself invest before you feel ready. Yeah, it's the implementation, not the information, right, the typical things we hear in the course industry. But what I'm really selling here is a community and like actual measurable KPIs and steps to achieve your goal.
For example, today, we got on the group coaching call that I was leading, and I got some really awesome feedback at the end of the call. And I just started the call with like, guys, if you're not making the money that you want, just like straight up, tell me and let's walk through it. Like, let's help you make more money, let's help you become more profitable. And the reason my why behind the transformation of the program runs so deep in terms of profitability and cash flow. It's because I bought so many courses. I've been in the online education industry for some time now. And there's just too much of like, here's how much I'm making. So you can make it too. Versus here are the actual steps, you need to take the action items and the execution needed to be completed in order to achieve your goal.
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. It's that old saying like ideas are cheap execution is everything. So I'm, I'm with you, 100%. There. You know, it's interesting, because you say that students in general, not just for your program, but just in general, people are joining courses or programs, because they want a specific result. And I like you also very driven by tangible results and making sure that people have a clear outcome in mind of what they're wanting to achieve. If they invest in something of ours. However you said, What can vary though, from person to person is what that specific result they're chasing actually looks like. But what stays the same or consistent across all students is the movement. I'm assuming here that you are defining movement as like how they consume the course or how they implement what they're learning inside the course. Of course, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there. But I would just love to know, in your opinion, what is the ideal structure or movement as you call it for a student to take through a program like how do you define that?
Yeah, that's a really great question. So I think the first thing that I always say we do custom onboarding calls for everyone that joins with, you get assigned a client success coach. So that's a big part of the model as well, where it's like, we're not just dumping information at you, like watch these videos and do these worksheets, because it's like, then it comes back to like, yeah, you could just YouTube and Google this stuff. We want to give you a custom approach. So that's really the answer.
So let's just say you You know, this listener decides to sign up and listener signs up and we get them on a custom onboarding call. The first thing we're going to ask them is where do you want to be in 90 days? And you'd be surprised everyone has a different answer, like everyone, some people come in, they're like, I don't even care about making money, really, I want to build a community, I want to grow my following. And when we know exactly where you want to be, we can reverse engineer that goal and help you get there.
But a big problem that I had faced in the past that I've faced, as a student of, you know, many coaches and courses, is when the two people aren't clear on the outcome. And then you kind of feel like, Oh, well, we didn't fulfill my needs, or the thing that I wanted. So the very first thing that we do with people is we surface like, what do you want? Why are you here? And this is something that you can't get in a DIY program. Because in a DIY, it's like, watch his video and write in your journal. Great, but you're paying for accountability, you're paying for the group coaching calls, you're paying to be in the movement in the energy.
Yeah, I agree with that. And I, what I feel like is maybe challenging, speaking from past experience of running a group program before we retired it, but also thinking about some of our listeners is when people have varied results that they're seeking, how do you translate that on the front end with your marketing and having clarity in your message, right, because I'm sure it'd be difficult to try to advertise or attract all different types of individuals with all different types of goals and your front end marketing.
So how do you balance that where you still have a clear value proposition or clear outcome that your program is known for on the like, I guess on the side before, before the Checkout button, and then after the Checkout button, making sure that they feel really supported in their personal goals?
Sure. So it's very important to look at where the student is at, and you meet them where they're at. So I actually just started working with a personal trainer, I'm kind of doing like this big cut. And I want to get really serious about like my health and my fitness. And at the end of our first call, I said to her, wow, this was amazing. Like, I've worked with a lot of dietitians, and health and personal trainer, and coaches and stuff, like, for some reason, like this is really clicking with me. And she's like, Well, the truth is, I'm just meeting you where you're at, and I'm helping you build from there. And that's what has been missing from a lot of my coaches in the past a lot of courses, you know, things like that.
So, for example, whether you want to get to 50k a month, or you want to get to your first sale of a $27 product, we're going to meet you where you're currently at. And I think this is why CCA stands out among the rest is because we're not just selling a high ticket offer like $1,600, you're instantly going to make 10k. Tomorrow, we're very clear of like, this is what's possible. And it's like every single black mirror episode where you pick your way, and then you choose the episode that comes next. After you pick one option. That's how I feel the program is set up, where it's like, if you've never sold something in your life, I'm not gonna go tell you to sell a 10k one on one coaching package, because I do a 15k one on one coaching package, right?
So it's like you need to meet people where they're at. And we don't push like one specific offer to create one specific funnel. I was just coaching, you know, one of the coaches on this yesterday, where I'm like, we give people a pantry full of ingredients. And your job as their one on one Coach is to help them create the right recipe.
Yeah, I totally get what you mean about making sure that it's not just feeding someone a copy paste formula, but rather helping them almost like think through the strategy in their business, right and making sure they understand how to look contextually at where they're at and where they want to go and use the right tools and ingredients to be able to move that way. For you the movement and the setting of the goal at the 90 day mark. And specific is that a very intentional thing like is the 90 day mark chosen because you feel like that's the first milestone where you can accurately measure the progress made.
Do you feel anything before 90 days is too early? Talk to us about how that plays into the movement that your students take through your program?
Yeah, great question. So our method is start grow and monetize. So we actually do a 3060 and 90 day check point. And the reason why I like to do this is because let's just say we're on day 80 And you're not where you want to be, and you didn't speak up and you didn't say something now it's like, oh no, right? So it's like we want to say at 30 days, like hey, are you feeling supported? Hey, are you this? And I think this comes back to like even thinking about front end marketing. It's like you need multiple touchpoints with people and this is is really the key where it's like you're in a relationship with your customers. And most people get it wrong.
And I think a lot of people in this space in general, are just focused on marketing and sales, which is the topic of this podcast of like, No, you have to do more, I actually believe the most important time to connect with the customer is after they buy. And I would say majority of people think, Oh, it's over, I want they bought. Whereas for me, I didn't even know them really, before they bought, right, I actually know them and can support them and start building the relationship in my eyes, once they buy. So what we want to do is we've tested actually, between lifetime access, we've tested with six months roadmap instead of 90 day roadmap, and I found that the 90 day is the sweet spot, because at 90 days, you kind of know, okay, like, I am going to really achieve my goal and do the thing. Or you're just like, okay, maybe there's something internally I need to work on. Or like, hey, maybe this isn't the path for me, we have that happen a lot where people come through the program, and they're like, honestly, I see how much work this is, and I don't want it right, you think about people becoming entrepreneurs and going back to a corporate job. And that's okay.
But we find at the 90 day mark is really when you're going to know if a person is going to be successful. And I always reflect it back to them of like, okay, well, what were the steps that you took to get to where you are? And then how can we create either a continued roadmap, if they resign with us? Can they join upper level program like the mastermind? Or is this maybe just not for you? Right, we had one client once she was like, Oh, my God, I didn't realize how hard it is to be a content creator, like whipping out your tripod in public. And it's like, you know, we're in the game a while now. So it's like, we don't even think twice about these things. But someone's who's first starting, I can completely see that.
And I think that's such a beautiful thing. Actually, that is also underrated. If you can give someone clarity that something is not for them, it's actually just as great of a gift as giving them clarity on how to continue down that path. It wastes less of their time, right, they're able to make a faster, more informed decision. So I think that's a beautiful outcome in and of itself. And I also agree that like 90 days is enough time for someone to, I think have a clearer sense of is this tracking towards whatever outcome I had set for myself, and I love that you build in those 30 and 60 day checkpoints to be proactive about asking them how they feel before they reach that point. Is that 90 Day one on one coaching aspect? So like you said, they're assigned a one on one coach, when they join, after the 90 days is over? Is it that there any community support, any coaching support goes away, and they only retain access to the curriculum, unless they like you said, renew for another 90 day window? Or is there still some form of community support, along with the content access, even if they lose that one on one coaching piece?
They get lifetime access to the course. So the way that we host our course we host it in a platform called school. I'm a partner with them. So I absolutely love their platform. Huge, huge fan. Now the pros and the cons of school. To me, it's a pro, but to some other people, it could be a con. So when people ask me, Should I use school, I'm really open and honest about it. But how we have it set up is that they get lifetime access to the course. But that also means they get lifetime access to the community.
So what we do is when they join, right, because the community in the course are in one place. So they get lifetime access to the community, they get six months of our daily group coaching calls, I lead three of them, and then my team leads the other three, and then they get 90 days with the one on one support coach. So it's kind of like tiered in the sense where it's like 90 days, six months, and then lifetime. And what I think is really cool is like most courses that you buy, right there lifetime access. I've heard experience from past coaches and mentors, where it's like when you put a limit on the IP, like a year or even two years, people kind of feel rushed.
We also deal with that just being fully honest, like people at their 60 Day point, and they're like, I'm feeling rushed, like I'm having FOMO that like I want more time. So one you can either resign, like we said for another 90 days, or you still have another three months of group coaching calls that you can attend every single day. So like with me personally, that's 12 calls a month, plus my team, we're giving you over 30 calls a month, there's plenty of time, there's plenty of support, and then you get lifetime access to the community because the true vision is for this to be a community focused brand. So it's like you buy in you're a part of our community for life.
That's really impressive. By the way, just the You're referring to like the pure volume, I should say frequency for them. For the access to support daily coaching calls, you don't see that in a lot of programs, even at the price point that you sell yours. For the one on one coaching piece. What's the frequency there? How often are they able to tap into that one on one coach for support outside of the 30, 60, 90 day check in points.
Yeah, so they get a private slack messaging channel, and we do Monday to Friday chat support. And then they get that custom one on one onboarding call.
Amazing. I love and I know this is like a huge thing that you are believer in the done for you done with you and DIY elements, how you've done a combination of all three, it's like that trifecta of support. So again, just for our listeners who may not be as familiar with those concepts, the DIY piece being the curriculum that they can consume at any point at their own convenience, the done with you being the daily group calls and then the flex support with their one on one coach for the first 90 days. And then the done for you, I'm assuming are more like templated resources. Can you clarify there?
Yeah, so we give like content ideas, we give scripts, we give sales calls, scripts, like everything that like full like funnel builds, like I literally just No, gatekeeping just give people my exact funnels. And this is such an interesting concept I kind of want to touch upon if that's okay, is really just like having such an abundance mindset when it comes to your resources. Because for a while, like I thought, like, oh, I don't want to give too much or like, Oh, I'm creating my own competitors, right. That's like that initial feeling. But I think the truth is that no one could ever copy me, because it's me.
And because I'm so involved in my business, and it's such a like personal brand. You can steal my funnel, you can steal my many chat, you can steal my keywords, you can do whatever you want. But there's a reason why when the people I see copying me, like verbatim and don't put their special sauce on it, it doesn't work. And it's happened to me. And I always say at first you imitate before you innovate. And like that's okay, because you should learn from your coaches. But you always have to make it your own. Because the energy is unmatched.
Yeah, absolutely. And I also think that oftentimes if you straight copycat someone, like, I hate that term, Funnel Hacking, but like, people do that, right? I think it doesn't work, because they often miss the context around the strategy. So they see what they see on the surface. But there's usually a deeper layer to like why something is positioned the way it is, or what the back end reason for something might be. And if you don't see the full picture, it can be very easy to be misled as to, you know, how to make that entirety of a product or entirety of a funnel successful. So I absolutely agree with you on those points.
For our listeners, I know some of them might be hearing this right now who also run programs, group programs and are thinking, I don't know that it's realistic for me to be able to assign each of my students a one on one coach, especially for an extended length of time, like 90 days, in your opinion. And if this may be like an insert an early hot take, do you feel that the one on one component is necessary for the growth success that you've seen in your program? Do you feel that if you took away that one on one support, and they still had, let's say, the daily group coaching calls access?
Do you think that would be enough? Or do you feel really strongly that the one on one piece is an essential part of the program?
Yeah, this is such a good question. I love your questions. Like they're just so. So like, open minded, I absolutely love it. So just want to share that.
Thank you
It is totally a matter of opinion. Like I have friends that are doing 50, 60, 70, 80K a month as like solopreneurs. And they are like so happy their clients get amazing results. And like yippee ki-yay, for me, I joined a program, and I paid a lot more for it than the price of my program. And I got a one on one coach in that program. And to me, I would have paid the entire price just to have that one on one coach. And the reason being is not that, you know, this guy was like so miraculous. It was a touch point. Right? He was an amazing coach, right? Don't get me wrong. I hope he's not listening. But he is an amazing coach. But like what it really was is in those moments when you feel like I want to burn it to the ground. This is so hard. You literally just need a human to speak to. And I think the humanization of our program has been the key driver to its success.
And you know This industry is so sophisticated now that like what used to fly in like 2020 2021 is just not going to fly. Like when people pay for something, they want to see two 3x their result. And to me to deliver that level of transformation, you need some humans, you need some people, and especially now as the program grows, and I think this is a great time to tap into that is that the reason why we had to raise the price is because I didn't want to compromise the quality.
So for me, our volume, yes has gone down. But our profitability and our results have gone up for our client results only for the month of January that we know of. We have helped our clients generate over $100,000 in the month of January, the same month, we started limiting spots, and we raised the price. So to me, it was the perfect and the right move. And I would say like if you're going to outsource it, you have to do the thing first yourself. So I was the one on one coach for like six months before I hired a coach. And then as I hired coach and I train them up, I'm still very involved. Like I'm in the Slack channels. I overview I give the coaches feedback every single week.
So it's like then it becomes building the right structure and systems. But I would say if you're going to do a model like that, do it yourself first, really learn how you coach. And I was just on the phone with my friend right before this. I was talking to her and I was just like, you know, it's been really amazing because this is something I never thought I could outsource because I'm like, It's me, right? I'm the coach, how do you outsource that? And that's when I realized that I completely shifted the model of my business from work with Giulia to be a part of the Conscious Creator Academy and utilize our method.
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Yeah, that that distinction is so key, I think it's it's almost like the difference between access to you as a person versus access to what your brain creates. Right? It's like two very different things. And I loved the way I wish I could like pull out that quote and used to be like a quote card, the humanization of your product or your program is what has contributed most to its success. I love that that should be our mantra, all of us in 2024. Thinking about how do we humanize this experience this product, whether it's a virtual digital, or in person service, or a physical product that people can tangibly interact with? Like, what's the humanization element? I just really felt like that that spoke to me.
I do also want to get into the numbers around the scalability piece since you brought it up of your program. So like you have already said you did need to raise the price to maintain quality without compromising your own profit margins. How do you build that like from a? I guess from a pure financial perspective, when you're looking at if you're willing to actually share the real numbers that would be even more helpful but like, for example, if you're like Okay, one, one on one coach can support X number of students right before they hit capacity. What are you paying for you know, that coach and then for a coach that's running the group daily calls like how many people could realistically be in a group Daily call before it starts to feel overcrowded or people feel like they didn't get a chance to ask their question.
How many coaches on staff do you have? And then in relation to the the labor costs rising as you have more students join to increase capacity? What is that profit margin on your actual course that you're trying to maintain? Because I'm sure that ultimately influences the pricing as well. Anyways, I know that was like a whole hodgepodge in your head, not you, but anything you can share here would be very helpful.
Sure, great, great questions. I love these. And I love to get in the nitty gritty. So like, I am definitely your gal for that. So I love that. These are like my favorite podcasts and listen to only give me the real juice,
Yeah, no for real, I'm glad you feel that way.
So in terms of capacity, and how many clients under management each we call it a CSM client success manager. So each CSM can have, it used to be about 100 to 150. And that was when and that was when we were offering like monthly group coaching or monthly one on one coaching calls per client. And then I had a meeting with the CSM, our current CSM, and I was like, hey, you know, how can we increase our capacity with same thing in mind not compromising the quality, right? And she was like, Well, honestly, I don't feel that three one on one calls are unnecessary, because truthfully, I can deliver that same result in a Slack message or a loom video.
So what we started doing is a really big part of our courses, we help people create a profitable offer. So we used to get on the call and be like, let's walk through your offer. Let's workshop it, blah, blah, blah. Now we have a document submission forum. And we're like, upload your document. By Wednesday, we're going to give you feedback through a loom video by the next Wednesday. So what used to take 30 minutes per one person now takes 15 minutes per one person. If that let's say it's even like 510 minutes. Now you can get three of those done in the time of one one on one call.
And this is exactly what we did on the group coaching call today was one of my clients was like, Giulia, I have 11 coaching clients. She's like a health coach. And she's like I a registered dietitian as well. So she's like, I have a love of one on one clients. But like everyone wants a custom nutrition plan, like it's my their body, their health. And I'm like, I totally get it. Like sometimes it is just the niche. I was like, Well, what about if you build a hybrid model, like we've built, and I gave her the same example with the document submission form where like, if they want you to look over their lab results, or they want a custom, you know, meal plan, you can easily outline that on a Google Documents and a video loom video with your face in it, and go over what they would get in the call. Because the truth is, especially for us, we're working, you know, b2b with other business owners.
If you don't have to be on a call, don't get on the call. Like I know, for me, I have so many calls on my calendar, like if we can do this in a voicemail, or we could do it on a loom video, like I'm all for it. So how I really trained our clients to perceive it is from the angle of like, if I can help you get the same result in a 30 second Slack message that I can type out or a 30 minute zoom call, which would you choose? Because what they want is the result. They don't want the Zoom call?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I could not emphasize what you just said more. One being just personally, someone who doesn't love a lot of meetings, I definitely am a huge fan of asynchronous communication I choose at all times. In fact, just yesterday, or maybe two days ago, you know, there was a writing agency that we're starting to work with, and they wanted to, you know, hop on a discovery call. And I said, Hey, can we actually just move this to slack? And let's just, you know, hash it out there. Yeah, so much faster was so much more helpful. And so I really do think async communication like is the future unless there's like something that absolutely must be done kind of in a real time report.
But I also love the way that you positioned, that it's not the vehicle through which they are receiving the answer. It's the answer that they're looking for. And the more efficient you can be about delivering set answer, the better experience they actually have. Plus I'm even thinking like, as a client, I would rather have daily access to someone via slack spur, anytime something pops up, then one, one on one call a month, right, that feels much more limiting. And it feels like I almost have to time my potential challengers to a certain period to be able to get those resolved and so totally see the value in that I'm very impressed that they can service even even with the revised model and very impressive they can service you know, 100 to 150 people per CSM.
Are you able to share anything around the second piece that group calls piece like how many people can really be serviced and and also if you're willing to share like rates of, of what you paid coaches and then how that factors into your profit margin or your total, of course cost that would be great.
Yeah, so what we have for our current team is we have two people on the sales team. So we sell this by sales calls. That's like the whole combine love to dive into as well, because so big for sales calls, like, I freaking love them. And I think more women should do them. And I think they're really exciting and really empowering. Because a lot of people sometimes think like, oh, it's like, icky, and it's this. And it's that and I'm like, gals, it's the human to human approach. Like we want to connect with people we want to get in our bodies, my one sales rep, she was an amazing, amazing, amazing human. She's like, I just drop them into the meditation when they get limiting beliefs. They're like meditating on the sales calls. And I'm like, This is so fun. Like, I love this energy.
So I have my two sales reps, their commission, so their commission only, and my CSM or CSM, they're on a base salary. Now it was just base and what I wanted to do, because the sales team, they have bonuses, which is pretty typical for a sales team, but for the base salary positions, I still wanted them to incentivize to be motivated, right? So it actually took me some time maybe like five or six months to figure out how can I incentivize the CSM, because we're not directly measuring like, Okay, you close this sale, you get a percentage of that sale.
So just recently, like, a month ago, maybe end of December, or it was like November, maybe I came up with a new bonus structure for CSMs, that I actually reward the CSMs for the clients cash collected rate. So for example, if a client hits a 5k month, they get x, if the client hits 10k month, they get x bonus. And going back to like profit margins and numbers, I have about an 80% profit margin on my product. That's the direct cost of fulfillment. So that gives me wiggle room to do fun incentivize bonuses like this, and have that capacity to reward the CSMs. And then it's also been really fun to look at like, wow, if this CSM is making two 3k and bonuses.
Okay, well then, yeah, I can totally justify arrays. Because now right we had 100k Plus in client results, which first of all is amazing, that just makes me feel so fulfilled, right? We're delivering the thing we said we're going to do, we're like knocking people out of the park where it's like we're promising 10 Day one the 90 days and you guys are doing like 50k and I'm like what is going on here? So you know, it's just this all around like really motivating culture. And especially in like a salaried position. It has been so like motivating and exciting. And especially because the vision of this program is very entrepreneurial.
so innovative. Giulia, I just have to give you huge kudos there. I don't think I've ever heard someone in this online industry space. incentivize back in fulfillment team members with bonuses and commission. Well, I shouldn't say commission, it's not exactly commission, but you know, bonuses, bonus incentives, because and now that I'm thinking about it, it doesn't really make sense why it's not more of a like a regular occurrence.
Because to your point, the satisfaction of the client comes all from the back end delivery and fulfillment. It's not really about the front end, like yes, the front end sale gets them through the door. But that retention rate, that referral rate, your overall success as a brand and the in the product, reputation all comes down to fulfillment. So of course, if they can help their students generate better results, then it's like a win win across the board. And so that is so, so fascinating. I love this model. If you're listening to this right now, and your interest is piqued by this like go ahead and, and drop into Giulia's DMS, we'll make sure to put her Instagram below or tag us on stories or something and just maybe give your two cents on this because this is a very interesting topic that I would love for a community to weigh in on. So super fascinating.
Earlier you mentioned too that you know when when it used to be live launch, the program didn't make nearly as much money or even have as much momentum as when you switch to Evergreen. You're a huge fan of sales calls. I too love sales calls. Did that sales mechanism. The enrollment piece change when you move from live launch to Evergreen or was the sales generator always sales calls?
I've tried a lot of different things. So like I've done the webinar to a sales call the webinar to an application, sell them in the DMS I've done the webinar to like buy the $2,000 course like here's the link to thrive cart, right like I've really done it all. What I found is that it is just so hard to bring a stranger to a high ticket sale like that after a webinar, like yeah, you can do the urgency and the emails and stuff like that. But the people that I see like absolutely like dominating live launching in webinars is because they've been in the game a while, and they have a lot of that like reputation and trust built already.
So it's like the webinar, or like the live launch is kind of like the fuel of the fire to like really blow that thing up in a good way. Right versus now, I've been running these kinds of programs since 2021. But I really say like, January 2023, like exactly a year ago, was like the kickoff of CCA, because I rebranded it, I renamed it what it was before was completely different. So what CCA started as in January, I was like, I just want this to be like an evergreen $2,000, buy it on the webinar, 12 month payment plan, type, of course. And I was in the middle of the launch. And I got on a sales call right before the launch. And I was like, yeah, like at this launch coming up above. And as I was doing the launch, I just realized that like, I wasn't super lit up about not knowing my customers. I wasn't super lit up about, you know, selling something so high ticket to to me, the people felt like strangers, because this is what's interesting about social media as everyone feels like they know you, but you don't know.
Yeah. Oh, trend is definitely fascinating.
Exactly. And I've had failed webinars before. So I had like a little bit of trauma with it. So I remember I'm in the middle of this, you know, February 2023 launch, and one person sign up on the webinar. And I was like, I'm just not vibing with it. So in the middle of the webinar, I just changed it. And I started booking sales calls. Literally, the course on the webinar was like the launch price that early repricing was like $2,000. I'm literally like, rip in sales calls, I booked like 15 calls. And it was like a $45,000 launch.
Wow.
Because in the middle of it, I was like, I want to do what feels in integrity with me. And like where I'm gonna put my best foot forward. So it's like, the minute you just get on a call with someone and you're just like, vibing, you're shooting the shit, you're like going back and forth. They see you're a real human being one of my clients, she's a sales psychology expert.
And she just talks about, like, when you buy a Chanel bag, you can feel the bag, you can try it on, you can look in the mirror, you know what you're buying, when you buy a course that's a closed door that's like, hey, just trust me. So it's like, the best way that I know people can trust me is like when I'm face to face with that, because you can feel someone's energy. So I just start doing these sales calls. And after that launch, I was like, I want to change the whole model. And that's when I started building this because I was like, What are and I was just saying this to a client today. What are the exact steps you took to get the result? Because if you want to get the same result over and over and over again, take the same steps.
Yeah, and I do think that iteration piece is one of the most effective strategies that people really don't prioritize, quite frankly enough, because it is doing the same thing over and over and over again, even if it feels boring, like I was just when I was on the Voxer chat with the copy agency, and I was talking about the sales page that we want rewritten. I mean, we've done it 10 times, and it's more or less a very similar structure.
And so yeah, from the entrepreneur side, the 11th time you do something, it does kind of feel like oh my gosh, like, you know, the same thing. But for the user, the experience is always brand new for someone who's coming into your world for the first time. And so love that advice. There's so many just like nuggets of wisdom that I really, really resonate with what you share today.
I'm curious if there's anything we haven't covered that you feel, were key decisions that you made in some of these changes to your program that made it again, a more scalable, or be just increased, one of the following things either increased the referral rate, increased retention rate or reduced refund requests. So any any strategy or tip we didn't cover that you feel really impacted one of those three areas or scalability that you want to make sure our listeners come away with.
Absolutely, it's be a human. Like, I think we forget, because we're in front of a screen all day that these are real people. So like, for example, when I would get you know, I wouldn't even call like a complaint but like, let me just give you an example to really like land this plane and drive it home.
A client reached out to me and was like, hey, like I feel that I am at my 60 day mark and I haven't yet seen the result that I was hoping to see. Right? She made like $3,000 She wants To make 10k By the end, so first of all, I'm like sister, you got 30 days left, you can absolutely knock it out of the park, you still have another four months of the group coaching calls you have access for life. And the minute I just went in there and had like a conversation with her. And I was like, there's really nothing to worry about here, you're in a great position you made $3,000, you built your brand, you landed on your offer, like look at all these accomplishments. And I think I used to fear that stuff. And I think it's so much of this like, and I'm sure you can resonate with this, where it's so much of this, like internal dialogue, where it's like, oh, is it my course? Is it me? Is it me, but I could really see her and meet her where she's at. And say, like, I understand your fear and your worry, but this is a human to human conversation, like we got your back. And I basically just like re inspired her and reminded her of all her wins all her accomplishments.
And she was like, honestly, I was just feeling a little bit scared. I was just having a little bit of FOMO. And it's like, at first that may come off as like, this isn't working. I don't like this. And she didn't say those things. But maybe she was feeling that way. And for me as the coach, when I can just say like I always say to my sales team, figure out the real reason why, what is the deeper reason why because it's never the surface level stuff. So it's like, talk to your customers.
You know, one of my mentors always says, There's no such thing as a passive relationship. So there's really no such thing as a passive income, because you need to constantly fuel it, where it's like, if I want to go to hold my boyfriend, like, hey, let's have a passive relationship. He's out the door, right? You got to nurture your relationship every single day, right? You got to still buy them cards three years in, you got to still make Valentine's Day sexy and exciting. You have to do the same thing with your customers. And you have to remember that the minute they buy is the start of the relationship and not the end.
Man, I'm just going to tell everyone just pause this rewind, just rewind, like 90 seconds to minutes and re listen to exactly what Giulia's said. Such such good reminders. Truly, I mean, that one mindset shift, I think of viewing the the purchase point as the start versus the end. I think it seems simple, but but I really do think that one shift can make all the difference in the world.
To wrap up our case study, I want to end for you with another Hot take, like what your stance is on this. I think oftentimes, I don't know if it's habit or if it's just, you know, the conversation that's taking place for many years. I think a lot of times course creators in particular, and or coaches who have group programs place this burden on themselves that their students success is determined by the completion rate of said program. So it's like what they're shooting for the target is a 100% completion rate, like I want you to watch all the modules, I want you to show up to all the calls, I want you to, you know, participate and be active in the community. And they're placing a lot of burden on themselves to try to encourage their students to achieve that mark.
Do you believe that a 100% course completion rate is actually important or necessary? And if not, what is the success metric that you have trained yourself and your team to make incremental improvements toward instead?
Yeah, absolutely. So I do not think you have to complete every course, I don't even know if I've ever completed a course in my own life. So I don't expect people to complete mine. But then we have some all star students, they're like, I watched the whole course in two days. And now I'm actually going to go through it like, I love people like that, like I'm like, that's amazing. You must have been a great like student in high school in college.
The metric were looking for. And I actually I do this with my team, as well, and I'm very open about it is outcome based task management. So when we talked about getting on that first call of like, what is the desired outcome? If we don't talk about what is the thing we're going to measure, you're not going to feel successful. So when we start off the bat of like, I want to achieve $10,000 I want to achieve posting two times a day, I want to achieve this thing. Now. It's like what like everything has to be measurable. Like that's what it comes down to where it's like, not that it doesn't matter.
But you have to be clear with each other you and the coach, you and me, what is the thing we are measuring, because like I said that is different for every person. Most people it's a monetary outcome. Other people it's someone lost like seven pounds in the first month of our program. So so interesting. Maybe it's even deeper than that. Yeah. We had someone lose 30 pounds, and in the 90 days as well, too.
So it's like, we want to know what is the thing you're specifically going after. And we will hold you accountable and to that. So there's really not one specific metric. It's whatever the outcome you're looking for. We want to help meet you where you're at, and help guide you to achieve that.
I just love this. I love this advice, not only for the outcomes oriented task management on the client side, but it really I mean, that applies to team too, right? It's like, if we're not clear about what the success metric is, for an initiative, a project a campaign or what not, then then there's no way to really clearly define if it was a success or not. So agreed. Absolutely. This case study on user experience has been immensely helpful. Thank you so much, Giulia, for just bringing so much wisdom to this episode. I can I can already tell it's going to be a favorite of mine. And I'm sure many of the listeners. So Giulia, where else can our listeners connect with you and continue to explore your world?
Thank you so much, Ellen. This was such a pleasure. And like just so fun to chat. I love podcasting so much. So thank you, I really appreciate that. You can find me on Instagram. That's my most popular platform. I'm also on YouTube. So you can find me there. My podcast is called Break Out Of The Matrix. And you Yeah, like really fun and really spicy. I used to be a manifestation coach. Actually, I don't know if you knew that. I used to be like mindset and manifestation. So I wanted to find a way to like bridge the two because I'm still really like woowoo it's just not so much in the marketing anymore. Yeah, so you can find me there. It's gonna be way easier to just click the link in the show notes because my parents are Italian like they're immigrants from Italy in my name, lots of R's, lots of G's. But yeah, so you can find me there. And just like you said, Send me a DM. That's really the best way for me to connect with people. I'm always open to like hearing your key takeaways, your nuggets. And podcasts, listeners are my favorite. I feel the closest to that.
I couldn't agree more. It's such an intimate form of communication. So thank you all for listening. Giulia. Thank you again for joining us today. And like she said, all of the links will be below in the show notes. So just go click over start a conversation. We'll catch you guys in the next episode. Thanks so much.
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