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The Zen Practice of Non-abiding | Otter.ai

The Zen Practice of Non-abiding

John Pulleyn1h

Trueman Taylor

00:05

Today is March 24 2024. And we're going to look into non abidance. For my own edification, I actually did some research on kind of like the history and yeah, just kind of the history of work, history of it, excuse me. And so I went online, got on Wikipedia and came across you this book is called The Buddha, the Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Alright, so here we go. The concept of non Abidan seems to have originated with the first century Buddhist philosopher, Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna, whose version of sunyata or emptiness entails that entities neither exist, nor do they not exist. Okay, so not a vitamin, non abidance. Here, just to mention, you know, it's used as a concept here. But as we go on further on down this talk, it's not a concept. But I'll just go on here. So in the Diamond Sutra, I'll be mentioning two Sutras, the Diamond Sutra, and the platform sutra, which are, you know, one of the main sources that we use in Chan Buddhism, or Zen Buddhism, kind of their the mom main Mahayana sutras, I believe. So again, that's Diamond Sutra and the platform Sutra of why not? So in the Diamond Sutra, classic Buddhist texts, it's primarily concerned with the idea of non abidance. And I kind of read the for the first time, actually, I read the Diamond Sutra, I'm going to obviously reread it over and over again. And for those who don't know, the Diamond Sutra, is basically the Buddha with one of his his senior monks. And they're having this dialogue in front of, you know, large assembly of monks. So this is during the Buddha's time, and it's split in 333 sections. And I'm just going to read Oh, excuse me, 32 sections. And I'm just going to read something in the last section, called the section is called the delusion of appearances. And the senior monk, his name is Subhuti. And so this is the Buddha speaking. So booty, someone might fill innumerable worlds with the seven treasures, and give all away in gifts of arms. But if any good man or any good woman awakens the thought of enlightenment, and takes even only four lines from this discourse, reciting using receiving, retaining and spreading them abroad and explaining them for the benefit of others, it will be far more meritorious. Now in what manner may he explain them to others, by detachment from appearances, abiding in real truth, so I tell you, and now he recites four lines, which I suspect are probably the most famous lines in the sutra and this, this is how it goes. Thus shall ye think of all this fleeting world, a star at dawn, a bubble in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a Phantom and a dream. And then moving on from that to the platform sutra. Of went on, says in the platform sutra, why non which is our sixth ancestor, realizing the depth of this concept that is not abiding was also responsible of a Chan master sudden alignment. The platform sutra relates how the spiritual patriarch why none was enlightened after hearing his Master Hong Ren, right reciting from the Diamond Sutra and this is the verse responding to non abiding, yet generating the mind

Trueman Taylor

04:31

Okay, so from that I'm going to go to an article I found online called the Chan practice of non abiding, and this article is written by venerable Gu whoa Jean Dharma Heir of the late master Sheng yen. Venerable Goulding is the managing director of the EDMS Chan Hall and the former abbot of the Dharma drum Retreat Center. New York as well as of the Charmin ESET Chan menace Patient Center in Queens, New York. Okay, so he this is an he actually wrote this article in two sections. And it's all about non binding. So we're going to take off from the very beginning here of this article. The Diamond Sutra contains the sentence, one ought not abide anywhere, and there will arise this mind. Before he became the Sixth Patriarch, the young wine on became enlightened when he heard this single sentence. In Chan, we often use a briefer phrase, non abiding mind arising. This phrase appears within the entrances to Nong Chung monastery, and the Chan Hall of Dharma drum retreat in excuse me, and the Chan Hall of Dharma drum mountain and Taiwan. As well as their retreat center in the United States, Master Sheng yen can continually brought up this phrase during long retreats, explaining the concepts behind it and ask retreatants to practice accordingly. The Chan School places great importance on quote non abiding mind arising because the intrinsic nature of the mind is exactly non abiding. If you wish to be enlightened, your actions must be in accordance with quote, non abiding mind arising. Not only must you have a clearer sense of this idea, but your every action word and thought must be in line with it. This idea that all actions of body speech and mind should be in accord with the concept of non abiding is is expressed in the same by one on as the mouth speaks. So the mind acts.

Trueman Taylor

06:59

There are many places in the plats platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch that referred to how one should practice non abiding. All right, so this is what we're going to be talking about is this practice of non abiding, and I'll get more into it just further down here. For example, the chapter Samadhi in wisdom or one says that those who practice non abiding will see the emptiness inherent in virtue and evil, beauty and ugliness, enemy and friend, demeaning and argumentative language. Such a person does not engage in or think about reward or injury, thought after thought he or she doesn't engage in or think about the previous condition. If the previous thought present thought and future thought continue without stopping, this is called bondage. So again, I'll repeat that sentence. If the previous thought, present thought and future thought continue without stopping. This is called bondage. If in regard to all dharmas This is dharmas in the small d, all phenomenon in regard to all dharmas thought after thought continues with non abiding, this is called unbinding. Alright, so that's the theory for the day. Just want to just talk a little bit about that. But here, I came across this more concrete definition. And this I found in the Encyclopedia of Buddhism. And I think this is where this whole talks start started was from this definition, non abidance is the practice of avoiding mental constructs during daily life. Although it's not exclusive, I mean, it's obviously part of RZA, Zen as well. But again, non abidance is the practice of avoiding mental constructs during daily life. That is, other than while engaged in meditation. And finally, we'll go with whom I'll be reading from his book, silent immune elimination, one of the sentences in that book says nine and Biden is just a Chan way of saying non grasping. Alright, so I want to get back to this non abidance the practice of avoiding mental constructs during daily life. One of the first things I'll always mention, for whoever comes here for training is that we work in silence here at the center. I'm always heartened when I walk around the center sometimes to get something to hear the kitchen say in silence, which, you know, from my experience, that's always been a struggle. If you're a head cook, and you get a lot of volunteers and cognitive trainees to keep the kitchen focused, and work in silence as much as possible. Of course in sesshin, we don't have that choice we don't, there's very little talking that goes on. But it's really hard to. Well, we all know this is it's practically impossible to be into our practice doing our practice when we're engaged in conversation. That master Hakuin meditation in the midst of activity is 1000 times superior to meditation and stillness.

Trueman Taylor

10:41

Another one of the training aspects we have at the center to is moving around in the buildings, making sure lights are turned off when they need to be turned off. Use kind of get a Noid a little bit with sometimes because it would be repeated over and over again, and mostly by Roshi. And I started to feel like this was some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder, but, but it's really a good practice. When you're walking around in the buildings at home or at work, say, and, you know, if there's a light that's on, it's not necessary, then you turn it off. And you notice that the light was on and it's unnecessary, it means you're not lost in thought, it means that you have that awareness when you move around. So that's detaching from mental contracts enough, at least to notice to notice that the lights on needs to be turned off. So you turn it off something I said a few times in sesshin, you know, we always give these encouragement talks before, just before we have breakfast, or lunch, or dinner. And I've used this analogy of so imagine the infinity symbol. So I'll talk a little bit about this. So it's basically you know, we're, we're doing our za Zen, we're freeing ourselves from our thoughts, or whatever comes up in the mind. And what we like to stress, especially during breaks, and the work period, is to stick with your practice, you know, the more you can return to your practice, during, you know, the break, whether it's resting or having lunch, whatever we're doing during our work period, that by by returning over and over again, that is actually going to help our sitting practice when we get back in the Zendo. Um, so it's kind of like this infinity symbol symbol.

Trueman Taylor

13:06

We have these term intensive that we do twice a year. And during the winter, it's longer, we did a six week term intensive, and in the fall tends to be shorter, say three or four weeks. For those who've never done a term intensive, you know, we basically, people sign up, and they sign their name at the bottom line and say, All right, I'm going to commit to one of the, the, the sole requirements. And then there are other things we can do in our term intensive but is to do extra sitting. That we have no choice. And then after that we can do other things like chunking before meals, or can't think of any right now or doing a yoga practice to improve our sitting posture, do have a daily yoga practice. So we commit, we make these commitments for a shorter or longer period of time. And then we meet once a week and talk about how how things are going in the term intensive with our commitments. So every once in a while, in our application, I'll get someone who's who will write something like I want to be more attentive, I'm going to work at being more attentive during the day. Yeah, that's something we all want to do. You know, we want to be awake during the day during our daily activity. But that is just a little too abstract. It is it's too abstract, basically. And so what would be much more practical, in terms of working on that is say when we're driving. We're not going to listen to a podcast or radio we're just going to drive or same thing if we're doing the dishes or we were not listening to anything on the radio or not listen to music Were just cleaning. There was someone in the most recent term intensive that was her commitment was for this one week, one hour a day, she would just do cleaning and silence in the house. Alright, so that's a much more practical way of, of working on this non abidance getting away from our mental constructs while we're working. I think we see this non abiding much more so in kids, if you see kids on the playground playing, they're just there. There's this this continuous flow, you know, they're just, they don't, they don't. Yeah, it's just a continuous flow. They don't get caught up in their thoughts. The way we do when we're when we're working or playing

Trueman Taylor

15:52

was I have this memory I have this memory. I visited a friend in San Francisco, speaking of kids and, and she had two daughters. She has two daughters. And I think one of them was seven years old, and I was just hanging out in the kitchen. While the mother was I think getting lunch ready. And this four year old five year old she just wanted to get to her mother so she rushed on the the tile the kitchen floor and and she slipped and she went literally straight up, and it fell right on her bum. But she got right back up and then she went right towards him. I'm like there was no kind of this that hurts or she wasn't crying she just it was just instant. You know, she didn't get caught up in any of what was ever going on the mind. She was she was empty. She just got up. Just rush straight to her mom got a hug

Trueman Taylor

16:54

Okay, so I'm going to be reading from this book Silent immune illumination, a chon Buddhist path to natural awakening, and it is by Guo Gu. And again, I got on, found a good little biography of Guo GU from Wikipedia, Wikipedia, excuse me. So his original name is Jimmy Woo. He was born in 1968. And he's also known as Glocal. He's a Chan teacher and a scholar of Buddhism. He was the basis of the American 1980s hardcore band bands. That's before dishonor, and in parentheses it says the original and judge. After his youthful days in hardcore straight edge, he returned to Buddhism and became a monk under Chan master Chang yen and 2000. He left monasticism to pursue academia. He received an MA degree in Chinese Buddhist studies from the University of Kansas and 22, and a PhD from Princeton University's Department of religion and 28 2008. He's currently an associate professor of religion and Florida at Florida State University, teaching courses in East Asian religion, religious traditions, and especially Chinese Buddhism and late Imperial Chinese cultural history. So yeah, well Gu practice with the late Chan master Sheng yen from 1982 until the latter died in 2009. He was a track changings translator attendant and assistant and leading intense John retreats. He first received Inca a seal of approval of the spirits of Chan and 99 Five and final transmission in 2007. And he is currently the founder and Dharma teacher of the Tallahassee Chan center in Tallahassee, Florida, and founder of the Dharma Heir relief project.

Trueman Taylor

19:25

And we'll be picking up here and his book, page 23. In the platform sutra, there it is again. In the platform sutra, Master Wang provides three principles so the to deal with non grasping, no thought, no form, and non abiding. These three principles are antidotes to our grasping of our inner world, order, relations and identity. In order to appreciate these three principles, Again, it's no form. No excuse me, no thought, no form and non abidance we need to recognize grasping as a deep seated feeling tone. It's a sense of lack, a thirst for some thing. Of course, being discontented can bring about change for the better in our lives. But here I'm referring to a habit of possessiveness, which arises from self grasping. And why nung says, good friends since the past, this teaching of ours has first taken no thought as its principle, no form as its essence, and non abiding as its foundation. No thought means to be without, quote, thought in the midst midst of thinking, no form is to transcend form within the context of forms and appearances. Non abiding is your fundamental nature. All worldly things are empty.

Trueman Taylor

21:08

And then global goes on. Thoughts, feelings, and narratives are what we grasp internally. Form is what we grasp externally and this can include our bodies, objects, environment, status, wealth and appearances. None of these objects of grasping are in and of themselves bad. Sometimes they are needed to help us navigate through life and improve our circumstances. However, when our grasping is driven by possessive possessiveness and obsession, and brings about suffering for ourselves and others reminded me of this quote from Sheng yen, his teacher, on love, genuine love is a selfless giving, give without expecting something in return. Only when one is completely unselfish, does genuine love arise. This genuine love is Buddhist compassion. Non Abidan back to Google, Google. Non abiding is just a Chan way of saying non grasping. Everything is fluid, changing open to opportunities. This is how things including ourselves are. Nothing is fixed, rigid. How can anything be grasped?

Trueman Taylor

22:41

Grasping and rejecting are always based on our self refresh referential obsessions. If we are captivated or repulsed by whatever comes up in our practice, than against power over us and the problem becomes worse. When difficulties arise, it is important to see them clearly. Accept them, work with them, and let them go. The true nature of things is not abiding, fresh and dynamic, relating to our feelings and thoughts through grasping and rejection ruins everything. If we grasp at them, then we're going against their nature, we suffer and probably cause everyone around us to suffer. When we grasp and reject. We're ultimately concerned with me i in mind, we're thinking self referral referentially. Alright, so now he goes through these three principles. And the first one is no thought. How do we relate to our inner experience? In the above platform, scripture passage, quote, no thought doesn't mean cutting off thinking. It means there is no fixation with regard to the free flow of our thinking. We don't need to reify or solidify what we experienced in my thoughts, my feelings. If self grasping is present, then thoughts don't flow. When we suffer. We are caught in the middle of the stories that we've we're fabricating. And in this way, we prolong that suffering.

Trueman Taylor

24:25

Ordinarily, our happiness is completely dependent on thoughts, narratives, concepts and words. So if we have negative self disparaging thoughts, and we automatically identify with them, then we feel very unhappy. If someone praises us, and we identify with that, then we will feel very happy. This is quite normal. Unfortunately, when we're tethered to our thoughts, we actually lose our autonomy. Like a puppet. We are tied up by the strings of our thoughts completely at the mercy of our narratives. The problem is not with our thoughts this is such an important point repeat it the problem is not with thoughts. The problem is the strings that rise excuse me, the problem is the strings that tie us to those thoughts our grasping and rejecting

Trueman Taylor

25:26

and I'm gonna give a couple of examples of this have no strings attached no way with our thoughts and going back to his Dharma brother here, whoo goosing.

Trueman Taylor

25:44

Going back to Chan practice of non abiding. And this is one of the examples he gives. Non abiding means to observe feelings and thoughts that arise from our your body and mind. only observe them know they occur, don't react to them interfere or prevent them from happening. And here's the analogy. It's like watching a basketball game, you can't just jump onto the court to interfere with the players. Let the players play their own game, you just quietly enjoy it, or you just quietly observe it. The sensations and thoughts in your body and mind are like the players on the court, you enjoy watching them you don't pay special attention to one particular player rather you watch the game in its entirety. And so of course, what we're doing with a practice when we're not a bite when we're not non biting with a practice is we do jump into the court and get involved the players in the game when all we need to do is just observe what's going on in the mind.

Trueman Taylor

27:08

Here's the other example that he gives, when a person passes by a Mirror Mirror, when a person passes by a mirror, there is only a reflection of a person passing by. If a bird flies by the mirror reflects only that person and a bird appearing the mirror just reflects a person in a bird. If there is no person and no bird, then the mirror just reflects the environment. So the mirror the mirrors are mind right. So the mirror will not choose which part it reflects, if reflects whatever is in front of it, you will not interact or react or have an opinion.

Trueman Taylor

28:06

Going back to Guo Gu

Trueman Taylor

28:14

here thought has two levels of meaning. The first riff referred the first refers to our mental activity, our brains natural ability to think symbolize conceptualize, cognize and perceive the second level refers to our fixation on our own constructs notions and storylines. In other words, our tendency to reify ideas and feelings into discrete realities into things. Alright, so there is no problem with our natural ability to think imagine and so on. The problem is when we start to solidify our thoughts and feelings into fixed notions of me i in mind, so there it is, again, that string. Yeah, the string on the puppet, if we don't pursue our thoughts, so in other words, like Guo Gu just said, there is no problem with thinking when we need to think, solving problems. Although some of those problems can be resolved through emptying the mind when we're doing Zen and the apparent the answer will disappear the resolution. So we're not talking about cutting off the thinking process. Obviously. It's everything else.

Trueman Taylor

29:34

Roshi Kapleau was always fond of saying, you know, there's a difference between thinking and thought in. To practice we have to first expose our sense of lack of our need to process something. Don't identify with these subtle feeling tones. At the same time, don't block them either. There are reasons why we feel and think the The way we do our thoughts and feelings reveal something about us. Recognizing, recognizing them as they arise and not grasping or rejecting them is itself a way to own and embrace them. When we can allow ourselves to be with them, we can start to work with them, to work through them, and to let go of them, which means they no longer have a strong hold over us. Okay, so again, this observing, I'm going to go back to this article I read from last year. You excuse me if some people have heard this one before, but it is it is kind of like the same idea, with our practice with how we connect with our thoughts, you know, observing the basketball game, and it's the same thing with our feelings and emotions. So this is an article called Lotus therapy. It was in the New York Times in May 27 2008. And it's by a Benedict Carey, and it's basically about therapy and mindfulness practice. And it starts off by saying, the patient sat with his eyes closed, submerged in the rhythm of his own breathing. And after a while, notice that he was thinking about his troubled relationship with his father. And he says, I was able to be there present for the pain. He said, When the meditation session ended. And he says, to just let it be what it was without thinking it through. And then the therapist nodded. Acceptance is what it was, he continued, just letting it be not trying to change anything. That's it, the therapist said, That's it, and that's big. This exercise and focused awareness and mental catch and release of emotions has become perhaps the most popular new psychotherapy technique of the past decade. For years, psychotherapists have worked to relieve suffering by reframing the content of patients thoughts, directly altering behavior, or helping people gain insight into the subconscious sources of their despair and anxiety and anxiety. The promise of mindfulness meditation is that it can help patients endure flash floods, flash floods of emotion during the therapeutic process, and ultimately alter reactions to daily experience at a level that words cannot reach. Something a little more specific here. After mastering control of attention. Some therapists say a person can turn mentally to face a threatening or troubling thought about say a strained relationship with a parent and learn simply to endure the anger or sadness and let it pass without lapsing into rumination or trying to change you're feeling a move that often backfires. So the first thing that comes to my mind is anger, you know, I'm not going to be angry, I'm not going to experience anger. And this, you know, this obviously, can operate on a very subconscious level, I've always noticed that people have a tendency to, when they are angry, might see a smile, Come up when you know, they're angry, but, you know, a smile on the face might might come up on the side of their mouth, or they might, you know, they just, they just don't want to experience that anger, the anger that through experience, and of course, through RZA, Zen as the months go on and years go on that it's kind of like the floodgates, you know, hopefully it all doesn't happen all at once. But slowly but surely we start to connect more and more with our anger and, and what do we do with that anger. We don't do anything with it. We just experience it in our bodies, and not not react or suppress it like we used to.

Trueman Taylor

34:17

One woman, a doctor, one woman, a doctor who had been in therapy for years to manage bouts of disability disabling anxiety, recently began seeing a therapist in Austin, Texas, who incorporates mindfulness meditation into her practice. This patient had plenty to worry about including a disabled child, a divorce and what she described as a quote harsh and internal voice. After practicing mindfulness meditation, she continued to feel anxious at times, but told Miss Logan This is a therapist, but told Miss Logan I can stop and observe my feelings and thoughts and have compassion for myself. And finally, it's a shift from having our mental health defined by the content of our thoughts. I'll say that again, it's a shift from having our mental health defined by the content of our thoughts, to having a defined by our relationship to that content. And changing that relationship by sitting with noticing, and becoming disentangled from our definition of ourselves.

Trueman Taylor

35:46

So just observe, observe, observe, don't do anything with it, whatever arises in the mind, arises in the mind, and we don't react to it, and we don't grasp it, we just observe it, it's very hard to do, especially when we're stuck in some kind of emotional obstruction, or we'll experience something, it's very hard not to react and try and fix, make a solution, try and fix the problem. When there's nothing to fix. You just, it's just all about observing and experiencing whatever arises in the mind. And by doing that, we get beyond the thoughts, we get beyond the feelings. And it's kind of like a weather pattern. You know, I've used this before as well. John Sensei told me this was very helpful, especially just before assisting, it's extremely anxious about and had a lot of anxiety. And he basically said, you know, just what you're feeling right now, it's just like a weather pattern, you know, it has, it comes blocks a sudden for a period of time, if you don't grasp on it, if you don't try and fix it, if you don't try to do anything with it, you will just pass and it did.

Trueman Taylor

37:25

We general, we generally believe that the way we think about ourselves is how we actually are, we cannot distinguish between our thoughts and the reality of who we are. More over, we tend to treat ourselves according to whatever subtle feelings we happen to have. At the moment. If we're feeling negative, we don't see anything good about ourselves. When we're in a good mood, even a shortcoming is adorable. This production projection happens so quickly, that we don't usually recognize it. But the subtle feeling is what the passage above calls, quote, thought. So when you feel something within, recognize it, but don't reify identify in a cell solidify it into, quote, thing, definitely don't build a whole narrative around it. This is the meaning of practicing no thought, amid thoughts are thought now being no thought or dancing. And songs are the voice of the Dharma. It's learning to have a healthier relationship with our thoughts instead of becoming conditioned by them.

Trueman Taylor

38:46

Sometimes we build a whole narrative around some spiritual experiences we've had, this is another way we reify the natural flow of thoughts. When we have powerful experiences and want a teacher to verify it as awakening, then this very need for verification is a form of self grasping. If a person has quote, woken up from a dream, why would they need verification from someone else? Why would there be a need to announce to the world that there they've woken up? The free flow of our minds is a wonderful dynamic activity of our creative creativity and intellect. There's no need to stop thoughts. At the same time, it is necessary to develop the ability to to be free from thoughts. One way to do that is to cultivate through meditation, the ability to bring the mind from a scattered state to a concentrated state, and from the concentrated state to a unified state. And then to free our grasping of even the unified state, the place where subject and object emerge

Trueman Taylor

40:00

The next section is no form. No form is a teaching on how to relate to the external world. Ordinarily, we grasp appearances and characteristics as discrete things. But there's really not a single thing, nothing is fixed. There is no fixed objective reality. At the say with this, nothing is fixed, I think that's one of the first kind of insights we can have about our practice is once we start to notice what's going on to mind how everything changes, in our minds, it's not so hard. Once we see everything, how everything is so impermanent with what's going on in the mind, whatever's going on in the body, mind, through our Zen, then it's not that hard to kind of see how everything outside us is impermanent as well kind of reinforces our faith in the practice, when we start to realize how everything is so impermanent.

Trueman Taylor

41:25

To transcend form, within the context of forms, is a teaching on, on not denying or divorcing ourselves from form, but allowing all appearances and characteristics to be without us contaminating them with our projections, ideas or feelings. We must engage with the world while at the same time we have no fixations about it.

Trueman Taylor

41:56

Then there's room for improvement, we try our best to improve the world of form. When things need to change, we make the change, but emotional afflictions only lead to some fixations, they can contaminate and even ruin everything we see, hear, smell, taste, or touch. This we must engage with the world while at the same time we have no sessions about it. That reminds me of this Zen saying, being part of the world but not of it. That's the Zen way, again, being a part of the world but not of it.

Trueman Taylor

42:51

All right, well, I'm starting to run out of time. So I'm going to skip pass some sections and just go right into this last section called non abiding, it's very short. Non abiding is relating to ourselves and others in an open and receptive way, where we allow everything to flow and recognize that each moment is alive, vibrant, filled with infinite possibilities. This is actually the nature of experiencing the workings of Buddha nature and the direct expression of natural awakening. For this reason, non abiding is your fundamental nature as Wynonna said, It is who we are free from the internal shackles of thoughts and feelings and external condition of form. With this non binding, the times that I see most in myself and others is after swishing after seven days of sitting together, might still might one of my favorite times is the post machine brunch. So a lot of staff and volunteers who've been in machine and they'll be having breakfast, we have the distractive on the Sunday here and at Arnold Park. And so we need to get it ready. And it's now at nine o'clock we get breakfast ready. And I managed in the kitchen. I just love standing there and watching everything flowing. You know, no one's bumping into each other and people are some people are even talking of course, it's after sesshin we can talk but everything is flowing. Everything is working. It's kind of like a beehive. You know? Yeah, it's it's poaching motion. I love seeing it. And the reason things are going so well is because of all the sudden that we've done, and we've gotten beyond a lot of our mental constructs that that we've kind of flushed out during the machine. Yeah, like I said, it's one of my favorite times. And there was this one particular instance to after a seven day sesshin people I was working with in the kitchen. Just everything just flowed. So well I had this one particular person who talked an awful lot. And she didn't. And it was after So Shane and just got I think we got lunch out on time every single day, that particular week because sometimes it would be late

Trueman Taylor

45:36

so just this this non abiding, you know, it's it's non grasping, basically. So Brother kitchen, working in the kitchen has always been the best training. You can't afford to be confused. When you're in the kitchen, you have to make decisions. It's like such a pressure cooker because you need to get lunch out on time. And if you're, if confusion is one of your default modes, the whole hemming and hawing and not making decisions. That can be kind that can be really difficult when when one is working in a place like the kitchen.

Trueman Taylor

46:38

Great quote from TS Eliot that I can't seem to find. Jonathan, thank you. There's not a binding right there. All right, he has Elliot. Between the idea and the reality between motion and the ACT falls the shadow between conception and creation between emotion and response falls the shadow. For me that shadow is the confusion you know, the hesitating. Not not committing to a decision, not responding, not acting when, when it when What's needed is to act in sesshin, one way one can hesitate is going to Doakes on, you know, should I enter that song from the class? Should I stay? Or should I go? You know, a breakthrough? A breakthrough of that is to not you don't have to think about whether you go or not. When the bell rings, if you go you go? If you don't you don't you don't have to make that decision, even if you don't have anything. This was such a helpful realization when, because I was hemming and hawing a lot trying to think whether I should go or not. So I'm like, just let Mu if if just let Mu make the decision. You know, just when the bell rings, if I go I go if I don't I don't and that was that. Just small things like that can make a big difference. Their practices. Again, it's getting beyond those mental contracts. Yogi Berra, baseball player when you come to a fork in the road, take it. So I heard this a long time ago. Someone else gives that encouragement. And I was like, I don't get it. Like, what do you mean take the you take the left for the right, you take the left or you take the right but you take the fork in the road. And actually, it was a larger quote not it wasn't just before that it says The full quote, it turns out is stay humble. Trust your instincts. More importantly, act when you come to a fork in the road. Take it

Trueman Taylor

49:03

and I'll just think I'll finish with this last quarter if I've often heard from Roshi Kapleau. He who hesitates his loss that is there lost in thought. Just yeah, just get beyond that. Don't fight your thoughts. Don't repress your thoughts. Don't cling to your thoughts. I think for most of us, the harder part is clinging to her thoughts. Just observing them. Alright, that's that's all I have. So time for question and answer. There are any. Oh, yes. Thank you, Keith Holmes forgot. So yeah, Keith and I are just going to turn off do a few things. So hopefully, the will the question answer period will run smoothly.

Trueman Taylor

50:21

There, G sock. Can you hear us?

Speaker 1

50:27

Yes, I can hear you. Okay, great. Can you number two? Can you put that back?

Trueman Taylor

50:37

Jonathan will help me out here. Thank you.

Speaker 1

50:41

We might need a little higher so we can see your face better. Okay

Trueman Taylor

50:50

so many devices just signed, let me know how it looks

Trueman Taylor

51:05

yeah

Unknown Speaker

51:11

there we go. That's great. Okay, good.

Trueman Taylor

51:15

All right. Yes, man duck.

Speaker 2

51:21

Firstly, thank you so much for value, very valuable talk to me, for the three to be very, very important. An ankle. First, row top to take a nice, non violent and low form. Yeah. And you also mentioned to the way for practicing that. Do not crafts, Buddha graphs where we do practice. But in fact, when you see our standard when we face to the object, for example, our eyes when we see some objects are used when we hear something intentional, intentionally or unintentionally, we also had the perception, and how is the way for maybe the complete fully cut it off their perception? And the object?

Trueman Taylor

52:20

Right How to Cut that off how to cut off this perception? It's yeah, so the question was hearing a sound, or we have an object in our mind in front of us. How do you cut off that perception? Yeah, the cutting off is kind of like I've, I've always had a problem with that word cutting off because it seems to suggest like, pushing it away or trying to make it disappear. When if there's something in the object and a minor could be like a Mako, you know, this, this phenomena that arises and gets stuck in our mind. And it's just it's always it's, it's always comes down to the same thing. Just skip back to whatever the practice that you're doing, whether it's a koan, and it's gonna have its, you know, it's kind of like that weather pattern. And let's say, I don't know, you see something in front of you, or are you thinking you have a thought about the past, this is something and it gets stuck in a lot, kind of regret or nostalgia, is you're not trying to stop it, you're just just get back to Mu. I mean, I know we say this over and over again. But as time goes on, you know, it just doesn't have its, it doesn't have the same kind of hold on us anymore. And it just goes away quicker. If you just get back to Mu, just get back to who, or whatever the the practice is, and also why shikantaza is such a, I kind of you know, there's my, I'm always going to get into other Zen centers and their practice of just following the breath. Oh, well, I'll just say that just a lot of people, when they start off the practice, they'll start off with the breath, breath practice, I always find that kind of kind of insane in a way, you know, that we don't have that they don't have like a counting of the practice because you're just kind of just, I mean, it can be done, obviously, people have done it, but it's just so much. I think it's just so much more effective when we start off with these counting practices. Because then you can use that as a tool you you you just do the counting and and put your attention on something and then that's when you start to notice the mind. And so yeah, it's just it's always comes back to just kind of rambled on and on and on. But it really is just going back. It's so simple. Just return your attention to the practice and things will pass. I don't know if I answer your question, but and it just gets easier. You know, it's just like dust in the mind. You're just, you're just there in a thought. Ask Papa. And as long as you're just not, you don't give life to it. The next thought will pop up and the next thought will pop up. And it's just going back and back over and over again.

Trueman Taylor

55:15

And anybody else actually, Dwayne.

Dwain Wilder

55:24

Found in my own life that I just forget about the mind and pay attention to the body. I found a lot, I found a lot of wisdom there. Good example is the way people manage their affairs. A dance floor or in a skating rink. Everybody has their own intention to have a good time and thinking about things. But they're really need to, to center themselves in the body. And that creates its own flow with all the other people sintering in their bodies, and nobody goes to a wham. They said every great once in a while on a skating rink or in ends.

Trueman Taylor

56:24

Yeah, I like to call that the Smarty of play. You know, you're just not. Yeah. And it's just like that little girl or girl. When you do fall, you just get right back up and go. You know, John Sensei gave a Dharma talk long time ago, when he was headed Zendo about skiing. And he and he was talking about relaying skiing and practice. And he said, if you're not falling, you're not doing the practice. You know, it's just kind of this natural. You know, I, from what I recall, you know, or I suspect he was talking about the having the body being relaxed. You know? You went on Zoom. Do you say anyone?

Speaker 1

57:07

Is there anyone that has a question or comment for Truman? If you do, just go ahead and unmute yourself

Speaker 1

57:26

All right, so back to the Zendo. I see nobody moving towards their screen. So back to you guys. Okay.

Speaker 3

57:42

Yeah. Going back to the Yogi Berra quote, where it's just making you see a path, like follow your instinct, just take it. What if you have a clear mind, but your instincts are still telling you to go both ways.

Trueman Taylor

57:58

Just Just go.

Trueman Taylor

58:05

Yeah, whatever, left or right, whichever way you take you just You go that way and just stick with it. And knots and Asha the gondola ride instead? You know, you just go

Speaker 1

58:22

it looks like was chicken Mel Zen down? Was there a question coming from Chapin? Mill Zen No?

Trueman Taylor

58:43

This is Chapin Mill? No, we don't have a question. Okay, thanks, Ed. Again, you know, I'd wish i I'd talk a little more about the kitchen because like I said, working in a kitchen was such a great training environment for me. And especially the first year so you know, people ask me questions all the time. You know, where does this go? Where did that go? And a lot of times I was just I found myself hemming and hawing when I well, sometimes I didn't know where things went. But yeah. When you're, you're just being pounded away with with questions. And you have to make a decision. It I got a lot better at that. And it's it was really getting it was getting beyond that shadow, you know, not being stuck in that shadow of not being afraid of making a mistake, or making the wrong decision. As time goes on, things flow so much better and you just get out of the way and you make that decision. All right. Maybe it wasn't the right decision sometimes but doesn't matter. You made the decision. You went through it. You know, sometimes you do need to think through things and figure things out and you just sit with it. But especially when I was in the kitchen, you know, that wasn't that kind of wasn't that kind of solution. It was like, just making that decision over and going Yes, that's it. Put it over there or whatever, you know. Yeah, getting beyond the shadow. That's a good way of putting it getting getting past the shadow, the shadow of confusion and doubt. And just just go full on. Just take that fork in the road

Unknown Speaker

01:00:37

Okay, that's it. We're about

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