Ep. 36: Abortions Funds Are Still Funding Abortions in States Where Abortion Is Illegal w/ Chasity Wilson (New Orleans Abortion Fund) | Otter.ai

Ep. 36: Abortions Funds Are Still Funding Abortions in States Where Abortion Is Illegal w/ Chasity Wilson (New Orleans Abortion Fund)

LaKia Williams40min

LaKia Williams

00:04

Welcome to Black Feminist Rants where we center conversations on reproductive justice and activism. I'm your host LaKia Williams and let's begin. Welcome back to another episode of Black Feminists Rants. In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking to Chasity Wilson. Chasity is the executive director of the New Orleans Abortion Fund. Now, if you don't know, Louisiana has a total abortion ban in effect currently. So I've talked to Chasity about the work that NOAF is doing to support abortion seekers in a state where abortion is no longer legal. And we also talked about her experience as a Black executive director of an abortion fund. Y'all, it's a good episode, so I hope you enjoy it. Let's get right into it. Hey, friends, I know I said we was going into the episode but really quick, I want to make a point on accessibility. So throughout the episode, I refer to something called the TRO. Now a TRO is a temporary restraining order. And in the context of this conversation, whenever an abortion ban is enacted, the courts can provide clinics and provide the state in general with a temporary restraining order against that ban that allows them to continue to provide abortions and allows people to continue to self-manage their own abortions, even though there is an abortion ban on the books. Now once the restraining order, the temporary restraining order is no longer in effect, the abortion ban goes back into effect. So throughout the episode, we talked about the constant back and forth and the constant back and forth is having the restraining order, not having a restraining order, which can very quickly change the legality of having an abortion, whether you have the restraining order or not. So, as you hear her say TRO throughout the episode, that is what we're talking about Temporary Restraining Order. And I will be mindful to continue to define acronyms while I'm having the conversation. But this time I did forget. So here is your little reminder. And yeah, I hope you enjoy the episode. So hello, Chasity. Thank you for joining me for this episode of Black Feminist Rants. To start us off, can you introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, your title or anything else about yourself that you'd like to bring into the space?

Chasity Wilson

01:58

Hi, I'm Chasity Wilson, pronouns she/her. I am the Executive Director of the New Orleans Abortion Fund going on- I just hit a year.

LaKia Williams

02:08

Woo! Congrats.

Chasity Wilson

02:09

Yeah, just hit a year, that's crazy. Thank you.

LaKia Williams

02:11

And so in the reproductive justice movement, we have a saying that everyone has a story to tell. And this really reminds us to center lived experiences within the movement. So would you be willing to share a part of your reproductive justice story with us?

Chasity Wilson

02:23

Yes. So I actually got into this work by way of, like, lived experience. So in 2019, senior year of college, I got my first abortion. I had just gotten into law school. And I was like, I worked hard to get here. I'm not ready to have a child, not in the romantic sense, not in the financial space. I just wasn't ready. And that first experience was horrible. And I remember feeling disrespected. I remember feeling like a number and not being fully seen as like a person. And so you know, I just kind of carried that story with me, like, I just, like, carry the experience. It was just something that happened. I never regretted my decision, you know, but I just I just held that weight. And then in 2020 I had a second abortion. And with that came a lot of shame. Because after the first one, I told myself, I would never be in this place, in a space again. Mainly not because, not because I regretted getting an abortion but more so the shame and guilt that came with the experience itself. You know, walking into like a dimly-lit clinic, people outside, like all of it is just heavy. And so got my second abortion in 2020. And after that one, I was meeting with a close friend, and I said, You know what, I need to channel this energy, like, I need to channel this rage and this disappointment, this anger, this hurt that I feel. Because even though as someone who got two abortions, I knew that I always wanted children. You know, those two pregnancies wasn't the time for me. And I was very honest with myself about that. I ended up applying for NOAF. And I was originally the Regional Organizer for North Louisiana. So did some grassroots organizing there and then became ED in 2021. And so yeah, that's how I got into this specific space. My original background is criminal justice work. Always been in social justice though from the time I was an undergrad.

LaKia Williams

04:23

Thank you for sharing that. Just like bringing parts of your life into this conversation with us. You mentioned around specifically around your second abortion that you felt shame and guilt. Did you feel like you had a community around you that was like supportive or just, yeah, supporting you in your decision, in your process?

Chasity Wilson

04:38

No, but I wasn't expecting one either. It wasn't until I got in this specific sector of work that I realized that people were, like, talking about their abortion out loud like that. For me, it was something that felt very personal. It felt very, I felt like I needed to be protective of the decision, you know, so I didn't- I didn't feel like I needed one. It was empowering enough for me to be able to make the decision, execute the decision, and go forth with what was already in motion, right. So I wasn't really expecting one to feel left out, to feel let down.

LaKia Williams

05:16

Thank you. And so since you've entered the reproductive justice movement and the abortion justice movement, have your feelings around abortion and kind of like the guilt and the shame around the challenge at all?

Chasity Wilson

05:24

Yeah, I feel like I've channeled that energy into into proper channels. I feel like what's important for me whenever I'm having these conversations is that everyone doesn't have to be a warrior. Everyone doesn't, like, you don't, you don't have to be an RJ champion, or an abortion champion, because they are two different sectors, right? Like, I think we have to- one, we have to be mindful of the fact that RJ and abortion are not synonymous. Abortion is a part of RJ. So when we were talking about this work, like I don't expect everyone to be a champion, or warrior, I don't expect everyone to shout from the rooftop, you know. I've- This is the first public platform that I even spoke about having my own. And that's simply because, you know, I consider this like a trustworthy space, especially for Black people. So I mean, it's, it's shifted from, you know, me feeling guilty to me now being like, Yeah, I did that. And I did it for myself. And I own that. And I don't feel like I owe anybody anything related to those two experiences.

LaKia Williams

06:33

I'm glad you feel that way, just like owning those experiences. And I'm glad you feel like this is a safe space to share that because I didn't know you had abortions. Then when you said it, I was like, Well, I didn't do my research well enough. Did she already talk about this? So I was glad to know that this is your first time talking about it. Because I tried to research people first. And I was like, I didn't see that, but yes, I'm so glad you feel comfortable sharing your story on this space, and that we are the first people to hear it publicly. And I definitely hear you on like so many people have abortions, even antis have abortions. And so everyone who has an abortion isn't going to be an abortion warrior. And even those antis still deserve care when they need those abortions, and hopefully that pulls them more into the movement. But I definitely hear you on that. Like we're there's a lot of us out here doing the work. But that's not the end all be all of it. But thank you. So I do want to talk a little bit about your role as Executive Director at the New Orleans Abortion Fund, and just the landscape of abortion access in Louisiana. So for my first question, for the listeners who may not be aware, Louisiana became a trigger state in 2021, before the Dobbs decision, which overturned Roe v. Wade. So can you talk about the impact of the trigger law and the subsequent Dobbs decision on abortion access in the state of Louisiana?

Chasity Wilson

07:34

Yes. So prior to Dobbs, Louisiana had three clinics. So we had one in Shreveport, one in Baton Rouge and one in New Orleans. Of course, once the decision came down, those clinics shut down overnight, and there was a lot of tug of war with the judicial system when they- the ban would be stopped and it'd be paused, or there'll be a TRO. And then, you know, it would close down again. So it was just that tug of war until finally the Louisiana Supreme Court just nixed it, right. So to provide a bit of a bigger picture of what we're dealing with, so I have some stats for you. So Dobbs dropped June 24. I went on parental leave June 23. So that was shitty. That was very stressful. So, but we pretty much planned for it, especially after the leak, you know, we pretty much knew we need to go ahead and strategize around it. So as of September 2022, we've pledged a total of $172,000 towards the cost of procedures. So to give listeners a better picture of how NOAF works, we have two separate services basically: one help line but we offer pledges, which is towards the abortion procedure itself, and then we also offer practical support where the funds go directly to the caller. So practical support can include food stipend, gas stipend, rental car, plane ticket, bus ticket, whatever type of practical needs need to be met in order to get you to your appointment. So as of September 2022, we've pledged over $170,000 towards the cost of procedures to 260 people seeking lawful abortion care since the decision dropped. And then our average pledge size during the time was $665, when clinic-made pledges are included. So what that means is we work in partnership with clinics where, you know, a person calls us they need help, and we will send an invoice to the clinic so we can be billed to pay whatever we can pay for that procedure, whether it's the entire procedure or a large portion of it, and in comparison to that number, right. So in comparison to that $665 that is now the average cost for us to pay the average pledge size of procedural support used to be $560, so it's gone up $100 just in in the average cost, but that's not even counting the 13, the random $1,300, $1400 here, $1200 there. And since the Dobbs decision, NOAF has pledged $189,000 in practical support to 117 people. So when you're talking about the impact, at first, the largest part of our budget used to go towards procedures. And then practical support was sort of like a supplemental program that was started in 2019. Just to, you know, provide extra support to community members, where now we're seeing a shift where a larger part of our budget has to go to practical support, because people are, people are getting appointments, but they're not able to get to them. Which brings us to the other large impact of this decision, right. So originally, when the clinics were in Louisiana, we were servicing, you know, of course people from Texas, our border states. Now everyone in Louisiana has to travel out of town, and our neighbor state, Texas, is not friendly either. So that drives people further and further away. So many callers are traveling as far as Los Angeles for care. One has traveled as far as 4920 miles for their appointment, and a lot of people are going from are going to Illinois, New Mexico and Florida. Now Florida is tricky, because they also have a 15 week ban. So time, like you know, most people do not find out, they're pregnant until six until the six to eight week mark. And that puts extra pressure on the person who is seeking abortion care, because not only did you find out that you were pregnant at eight weeks, right, but now you have to call around and try to get an appointment where some clinics have waitlist up to like four to six weeks. So maybe even before our clinics closed, our clinic in New Orleans had like a month waiting list at some point. So yeah, that's I mean, we're talking about people traveling, people having to take off work, people having to find childcare for children that they already have, you know, people having to basically decide between abortion care and groceries and taking care of other basic needs that they, that they have for their household. So that's, that's the impact right there.

LaKia Williams

12:09

Thank you for sharing that and kind of like painting the picture of what access is looking like in the state. So you said that since the decision, the amount of practical support that you're providing has increased? Are you still able to provide some financial support for the actual procedure since Dobbs has been passed- or decision?

Chasity Wilson

12:27

Yeah, so we still offer both services, right, but we're seeing that the need is more so for practical support than just procedure. So I mean, we are at capacity in terms of like our team is working really, really hard. We're small staff, we're a staff of four. So we're working really, really hard to strategize around like, Okay, what does it mean for us to provide more funds towards practical support, and still making sure that we're able to cover as many procedures as possible. Unfortunately, because the need is so high, we are at a point where sometimes we have to have a waitlist, excuse me, simply because call numbers have tripled, you know, from week to week, and month to month. Sometimes there's a month where we have run out of funds on the 15th. Right, simply look up all those funds are spoken for. If we have a lower redemption rate, which is when you know, a person may speak up for funds, and then like change their mind or, you know, a person doesn't redeem those funds, then of course, we can disperse them to the rest of the people. But I mean, practical support has become pretty much like the go to right now. Because pretty much so many people are traveling, especially if you're calling from Louisiana, we already know that you're going to need help traveling out of the state.

LaKia Williams

13:37

Yeah and I feel like that highlights that the main issue has been like the social and economic barriers that the government has put in place that's forcing people to need practical support. Like we already know that the procedure itself is expensive. And that can be prohibitive. But like all of these barries that the government is putting in place is adding another layer to this that people need funds for travel and for the plane and for the flight and for the childcare, all the things we said earlier. But that's a great example of that, like the data showing that as well.

LaKia Williams

14:02

No, absolutely. And I think one thing that is funny, I was just having this conversation yesterday in a staff meeting. You know, one of the biggest hurdles in doing work like this, when you're talking about like direct service, is that gut feeling of Damn I'm doing this wrong, you know, and sometimes, you know, we do allow ourselves to like sulk and feel our feelings and get pissed and get down on ourselves. But one thing that I continue to remind people that I've talked to in this work is that this is by design, right? So NOAF is simply a band aid. We're just like one tool, right? It is by design that more people need our help than we're able to help, you know. So although I wish every single person that called us could get- we could pay for everything that they need. Just like time is a resource, money is a resource, energy is a resource. And it is so hard when we run out of those things, and you have to tell someone we can't help you right now, but here's a list of resources like right. So we never just stop at no. And I think that's that pinpoints the importance of community because even though we are a band aid, and even though we are one tool, there are a lot of funds doing a lot of great work, and being able to pick up the phone or being able to send out an email and be like, hey, you know, we have this much, do you have this much to cover it? Right. So like, there's, that's a lot of fun work as well, like solidarity, pledging, that's a large part of the work that we do as well. And I, I think that it's not for everyone to understand the inner workings of how funds work. But it's so beautiful to me when I sit back and I'm like, I didn't even know this existed when I was in these situations, right? Like, I didn't know an abortion fund existed. I didn't find out NOAF existed until, you know, I told my friend that I needed to channel my energy and my rage. And she was like, did you know that Louisiana has an abortion-, and I was like, okay, and it forced me to check my own privilege, right? Like, I was able to just save up and like pay out of pocket, and it sucked. But it makes me feel amazing when, you know, a person is like my procedure is $600, and we're able to cover that, you know what I'm saying. And so it's hard seeing the system work, the way it was designed. It's so hard to see so many of us to grind ourselves into the ground in order to help people and advocate and be present for each other and also have to step away and go and live our own private lives, while you're watching what you do for a living be picked apart on TV. You can't, like, having a job that is so enmeshed in real life is a whole nother layer added to this. And so yeah, you have to be mindful of the fact that, like, this is done on purpose. This is very intentional, this is very methodical.

LaKia Williams

17:04

Yeah, I do feel like that's a very difficult part of the work when it's centered around lived experience, and it's centers around your lived experience as well. And so every day, you're, like, confronted with, like, experiences that you've had. And some days, it's not easy, and like that, it kind of comes up in the work that you're doing. And that can be very difficult, especially if you're a person who can over-identify with your work, which is very easy to do when your work is centered around your experience. And it's you know, and you're talking about, when we talk about abortion, like we talked about it at work, or we talked about it in conversation with friends, we talk about reproduction, you know, just casually like it's constantly a conversation. So it's really hard to like, have that separation, which I feel like can definitely impact people's mental health. And especially as you know, a black woman, a black ED, and there's like all of this, like pressure and stress and being like the only, like space of support in the state, people are gonna expect a lot from you. But then there's also these other competing demands as well, I feel like can take a lot out of a person. I definitely appreciate all the work that you're doing.

Chasity Wilson

17:54

I really appreciate that. Yeah, when the decision came down. And like I said, it was the day after I left for parental leave eight months pregnant. And everybody, like, it's also hard when you have a lot of friends that you work with, too. So they're like, I know you on leave but like, I know you on leave but, and it's, you know. So that gets hard. Taking care of yourself doing this work is very hard. You know, we have a lot of EDs that struggle with, you know, mental health, physical health, this shit wears on your body, right? Like you're tired. You can't sleep. You're wondering, you know, do we have enough money? Damn, did I close this out? Did I, did I do this right? Like you're constantly thinking about it. And then like I said, you're trying to enjoy dinner with your partner, and you turn on the news. And that's the big topic. You're at dinner with your family. And they're like, oh, you know, we know you're not at work but like. You know, and it's like, Oh, my goodness. So it's, it's hard. It's hard, but we do it.

LaKia Williams

18:56

Right, and from the story, it sounds like you transitioned from Regional Organizer to ED fairly quickly. What was the timeline to that?

Chasity Wilson

19:04

Yeah, so the timeline was seven months.

LaKia Williams

19:08

Wow.

Chasity Wilson

19:09

Seven months. Mhm.

LaKia Williams

19:11

I was gonna say cause that's similar, well, I don't know about seven months. But Monica Simpson at Sister Song, she was in a, like, I think director level or manager level role and then very quickly became Executive Director as well. It's a very similar story.

LaKia Williams

19:23

Yeah, nonprofit world is very different from that traditional corporate structure. So I'm pretty sure people are like what? But it did happen fast, but it felt like, it didn't feel that way. It didn't feel that way. It didn't feel fast because of the journey. I did. I asked for the opportunity. I asked for the opportunity. And, you know, of course, they were like, Are you sure? You know? Are you sure? And I, was I aware of everything that I would be taking on? No. Especially considering, you know, this organization had a life before I even knew it existed, right. So when you step into this role you take on the history and the story of the organization, which is sometimes bigger than your capabilities. Sometimes it's bigger than the vision that you have for its future. Sometimes you have to rectify some things, you have to reconcile with relationships, you have to acknowledge things that may not have been acknowledged before. It's definitely, this role has definitely made me stronger and more appreciative of leaders that came before me, I think I definitely, I'm looking back now as like a traditional employee. And I'm like, I was probably too hard on my supervisor.

LaKia Williams

19:25

That's funny.

Chasity Wilson

19:27

You know. But I, but I appreciate the opportunity to do something so meaningful, I appreciate the opportunity to represent an organization that has done incredible work, and that has grown exponentially. I also appreciate the challenges that comes with it, right, I appreciate being able to center my experience as a Black woman in my job, because not many people get to do that. I appreciate being able to lead with my blackness and be able to give that raw vulnerability, that raw honesty, and I've been challenged. But I'm grateful. I've grown a lot personally, I've grown a lot professionally. And I've learned to check my expectations, even when it comes to dreaming, right? So it's, it's the hardest thing I've ever done. But it is the most gratifying in a lot of ways.

LaKia Williams

21:46

I love that line. I appreciate being able to lead with my blackness, because not a lot of people can do that. That's powerful. Thank you. And now that you've kind of discussed this a little bit, but my next question was, what is the role of abortion funds in states where abortion is illegal?

LaKia Williams

21:59

Yeah, so it's important to acknowledge that not a lot of funds made it out. And it's not because they weren't capable, right. So I don't want to say it as if anybody failed. Nobody in this work failed when that decision came down. It was like, it was a heavy blow. And one thing that I want to acknowledge, too, when we talk about Dobbs, it is absolutely important to talk. I mean, it's absolutely important to acknowledge abortion access, right, and talk about all the people who need good care who aren't able to get it. But one thing you have to acknowledge too is a lot of people lost their jobs. Clinics are not buildings that were run by themselves, people ran them. So three clinics worth of people lost their jobs, right. So a lot of abortion funds, like I say, did not make it out. So that means that a lot of people within these funds lost employment. And I think that that's something that needs to be discussed more and more like, intentionally. So one, everybody doesn't call it practical support. But right now, a lot of us are focused on getting people out of the state. So our funding practices may not change. But we definitely had to do some maneuvering. And I'll be honest, like, we shut down for a while just to make sure that us existing in a state where abortion is illegal, just to make sure we could still exist legally. Right? So it was like, Okay, if abortion is illegal, are we facing any dangers? You know, just by us being just about us being called an abortion fund? What does that look like legally? What does that look like in terms of liability? You know, there were a lot of questions that came down outside of just like abortion being illegal, right? So it looks like helping people get out of state it looks like constantly keeping our eyes open for any law changes, constantly having our head on a swivel, being careful how we talk about our practices and how we talk about our work in public spaces. It looks like being able to shift at any given moment. So our role now is just like solidarity pledging, helping people get to their appointments, but it looks different for everybody, right. Like I don't think, you know, Texas may handle it different from us, you know, other states may handle the different from us. It just all depends on the state's needs and how they have to respond.

LaKia Williams

24:22

Yeah, you brought up like you're constantly looking for changes. Can you talk about how it was when the decision was being contested at first with the TROs and like things constantly changing? Like how y'all were navigating that time?

LaKia Williams

24:33

I can't give inside information about that, because, one, I was on leave, you know, and I really struggled with that. I grieved. I felt a lot of guilt because I felt like I left my team when I should have been there to help not necessarily dictate or guide or anything, but that was the worst time to have to be one person short. We planned as much as we could once the leak happened, but you can plan all day. But when it's your reality, and you also, you're also dealing with panicked people, nothing can prepare you for that. So to my knowledge, we did shut down just so everyone can have a minute to get grounded, to get centered. One thing about me as an ED that I do unapologetically is that I provide space for staff to take care of themselves. I do not, working ourselves into the ground is not a badge of honor for me, I don't promote that. I don't allow it when I have the power to not allow it. Staff gon' do what staff gon' do in terms of like, if they're feeling it, and they're like, No, I want to be here. I honor that space because I also provide space for them to channel their rage and channel their feelings how they need to, and if that means them wanting to, you know, make those calls and help people. I make space for that, right. And I make space for that conversation. But I, there was nothing about me that was like, Oh, my goodness, Dobbs dropped. We're about to extend hours by 10. No, take a minute, because you're a person too. And like you said, everyone in this space have their own lived experiences that brought them here. And so we have no idea the levels of grief that people in this work had to sit through, while also understanding that, that they are more necessary than ever now. So I do remember the day that the decision dropped, I logged into Slack. And I was like, I promise I'm not working, but they did curse me out. They told me, You better not work while you're on leave. But I did log into Slack, and the first thing I said was clock out. I thought I told everybody to clock out because you panicking and meeting panicked people with panic is not helpful. It is not helpful to be frantic, it's not helpful to panic, it's not helpful for you to not be able to sit down and grapple with what you want to do. We need to come from a space of clarity. So I told everybody to clock out. And I think that was, like, a Thursday or something like that. But yeah, I told them to clock out. That was the first thing I did. And I, I got a lot of heat. I got a lot of ugliness on social media, you know. "NOAF isn't helping anybody who don't donate to NOAF, they're not doing things with the money that they say they are." I got all of that. And I understood it. I understood that people were coming from a space of concern. People were coming from a space of we need you now more than ever, and the audacity of you to shut down right now I get it. But as an ED, it is, if we're talking about community, the people that do this work are part of the community, we're not separate. We're not above, we're not outside of it. We're, we're enmeshed in it. So we deserve the ability to say, I need to think this through. I need to make sure that I am actually helping you. Because sometimes having access to something doesn't mean that it's actually helpful. It's just soothing to know that you can get it. And had to make that call. And I don't regret it one bit.

LaKia Williams

28:15

That's real. I love what you said about we can't meet panic with more panic. And like a lot of people are coming to abortion funds for support. And like we have to be, you have to have that clarity that you mentioned, to be able to provide that support for them. And earlier you said you felt guilt about being gone and being on parental leave. But before that you said it's by design that more people are calling you that you have the capacity to support. And I would say it's by design that you felt that guilt for taking time for yourself. So I don't, I know you've probably let go of that guilt. But you should not hold that guilt because it's by design that you're feeling that way. Because that's another factor. I know we're talking about antis and abortion and abortion funds, but that's a fact of capitalism, that we're going to beat people to the ground and make them feel guilty when they take time for themselves. So that is not a guilt for you to hold. But thank you for the work that you do. I know I've said that already. But I'm going to keep saying that.

Chasity Wilson

29:00

I appreciate that.

LaKia Williams

29:03

My next question was what has been the community response in New Orleans as well as in the state about abortion being banned in Louisiana?

Chasity Wilson

29:10

I think it's been a mixture. First of all, the community, our community showed up and showed out. I'm gonna be honest with you like as a staff and even the board and I often talk about how mind blown we were with how we were almost overwhelmed with the emails. And I'm pretty sure there was some people that emailed us was like, I'm trying to help y'all. We were like we get it but like everybody is trying to help. And we were so grateful. So we literally had to shift our strategy in terms of like fundraising and everything because, like, incidentally, the decision helped in terms of like we met some financial goals that were projected, you know, a couple quarters away. So I mean, the community just showed up and showed out. The businesses, the local businesses that reached out and was like, hey, we want to do you know, a percentage of our proceeds for the next three months. Hey, me and my friends want to get together and have a fundraiser like, so the way individuals showed up and was like, hey, I want to donate this, Hey, can I donate in honor of my grandmother who passed away and was like really into this movement? Like seeing the people that were like, We want to help? How can we help the amount of people we have who sign up as volunteers to help us fundraise, who helped us sift through all the emails of people who wanted to help, like. I mean, it was overwhelmingly beautiful. We had to, like, work extra hours, just so we could respond to people, you know, because we don't want anyone who wants to help us to feel like we're not appreciative of that. So we have to change our whole comm strategy, like, the support pushed us to grow faster than we were projected to. So I'm really grateful for that. I don't know what the antis did, wasn't clocking for them. I don't know what people who didn't originally support abortion did, wasn't clocking for them either. But I do know that the people that do support access to care and support, you know, abortion and support NOAF, they really showed up and showed out, you know, and I could not lose sight of that. I couldn't, I couldn't get wrapped up in the negativity and the, you know, all the fearmongering, like I had to sit in the support, I had to sit in the people who were like, I want to give $100 a month. Like, you know, I had to sit in that because that was so beautiful to see. And that wasn't even part of the plan. None of us expected that. None of us felt entitled to that support. So to know that we got it simply because of the news. And not because we solicited it, you know, we definitely let people know that we were still open, we let people know that we had no plans on shutting down. But they showed up and showed out.

LaKia Williams

32:06

That's beautiful. That speaks to the power of community. I will just add that if you're listening, and some other the news comes out and you want to support an abortion fund, do not call the help lines, do not blow up the phone lines, trying to give money because you're blocking people who are trying to get the money. So send an email or something, but don't call the line. I feel like that was a really big issue when Dobbs first happened. But I'm glad that you know you're getting the support that you needed, and were able to meet your financial goals. And it sounds like y'all were given out a lot of money. Earlier you said 170k, 180k. So money's being dispersed, which is beautiful. Are there any current organizing efforts in the state to increase abortion access?

LaKia Williams

32:44

From our end right now, we're just solely focused on the line. I'll be honest with you, in a dream world, you know, we would do more organizing and more external advocacy work. And that's definitely in the plans. Like I said, I started out as an organizer for NOAF, so I would love to get back to that space. But also I'm not comfortable bringing on, I'm not comfortable moving into that space until I know that we have a clear lane for them to work with, right. I believe in laying proper foundation, I believe in moving smart no matter how slow that may seem to people. I don't allow urgency to rush our decision making. And so solo advocacy efforts, no, but we're always willing to be in the conversation. Right now our sole focus is being able to answer the large volume of calls that we're getting, getting people help, getting the money to them, and making sure that the systems that we have put in place are actually working still. For example, you know, PayPal is really acting wonky with abortion funds and sex workers and people, other parts or other sectors of reproductive justice. So you know, trying to make sure that we're always moving and shifting in the ways we need to to get these funds out to the people who need them most. So once we get some solid ground with that, once we're able to get a steady pace or at least get a steady system going to make sure that we can get funds out as fast as possible then that will become my priority.

LaKia Williams

34:16

That's great to hear. I know you'll have a lot to do already. I know also before we started the recording, we talked about you and, you know, being a new mom, a first-time mom and being a Black woman leading an abortion fund. I just wanted to take some space for you to talk about what it's been like being a Black ED at an abortion fund and also being a first-time mom and also doing this work as well.

Chasity Wilson

34:35

Yeah. Being the first-time mom doing abortion work. I went through a lot of guilt when I found out I was pregnant again because, for me, the way I came into this work I was carrying a lot of, like I said, frustration, anger, rage. And it wasn't because of the decisions that I made for myself. It was more so the way I felt in the spaces that were supposed to be safe: feeling like a number, feeling like I wasn't being taken seriously. So, you know, being a mom, like, you know, carrying a pregnancy while doing abortion work. That felt hypocritical. I felt like I had let some part of the work down, not from a reproductive justice standpoint, because like that is RJ, right. Like a pregnant person running an abortion fund is like the epitome of RJ. But it was more so like the audacity. It felt audacious. It felt like, I felt guilty for enjoying being pregnant. And I worked through it, you know. It definitely made me stronger, it made me feel more grateful for the ability to make the decisions that I made once I got over the hump of the guilt. So that's that. But in terms of being a Black ED in the South, running an abortion fund, and I'm the first Black ED of this organization. So I think that ties into you know, the point that I made earlier about when you join an organization that existed before you, you don't always know the origin, you don't always know the stories you don't always know like that intimate impact that organization's made. You just hope you made a good choice, you hope you picked a good place, you hope you pick somewhere that you can be proud of. So anytime you're the first Black something, there's always going to be a level of pressure. There's always going to be a level of expectation and a level of questioning that comes with your placement. I knew that in theory, but I had never been in this position before. I had never experienced such a level of pushback.

LaKia Williams

36:49

Pushback from who?

Chasity Wilson

36:51

Probably more so pushback from people who had never seen someone who looks like me in this seat. And I'm not saying just looks like me in race, looks like me in age. I'm very young, you know. I'm a young ED, right. I'm 26 years old, 27 years old when I got this job, right. So that's a thing. You know, I'm young, I'm black, I got long nails, I'm, you know, expressive, I am assertive, I'm sharp. And I know that about me. So I think that I had a lot of growing to do. I had, I had to do some work in the mental to not take everything personally. Because a part of being a leader is being able to tap into yourself and make the decision, make the call. I think I did a lot of, I asked for a lot of permission at first. I was incredibly humbled by being able to be in this seat. I didn't take it lightly, definitely didn't want to offend, definitely didn't want to undo any good work that was done before. But also being able to make the call to improve things. Also wanting, like needing to be able to tighten up some ends, fix some systems, bring on new systems, so and take feedback in the ways in which it was given. And be able to sift through that and know, you know, what was meant for me, what was meant for us as a team, and how we were going to grow. So it's, it's hard. Like I said, it's one of the hardest things I've ever done. But it's one of the most gratifying because I can honestly say that I'm very proud of where NOAF is right now. And do we have a way, more ways to go? Absolutely. Do I dream of having a bigger staff and bringing back that advocacy piece and bringing back more departments? Hell yes. But to be able to make the call to slow down and chop some things down and build back up. That's one of my proudest decisions. And it shows that it's working because of the ways in which we're able to help people and the ways in which our budget has grown, the ways that we are able to pay our staff a livable wage, having more people of color on the board, being able to put out communications that is authentic to the leadership that is current. And like I said, being able to leave with my blackness and do it on apologetically, and allow more room for people to express themselves under the NOAF umbrella, I have no regrets.

LaKia Williams

39:30

Thank you so much. That was beautiful. Thank you for sharing pieces of yourself and your story with us and for all the work that you do. This has been a great conversation. You're very fun to talk to.

Chasity Wilson

39:40

Thank you.

LaKia Williams

39:41

You're a good conversationalist.

Chasity Wilson

39:43

Oh, don't tell me that. Don't let my husband hear.

LaKia Williams

39:47

Thank y'all so much for listening to another episode of Black Feminist Rants. Thank you, Chasity, for being an amazing guest speaker. Thank you to the New Orleans Abortion Fund for supporting abortion seekers. Y'all already know what I'm gonna say. Down in the description box I'm gonna have some links for you to support the New Orleans Abortion Fund with a donation. And also I have to add, as Chasity mentioned, many Louisiana abortion seekers will be traveling to Los Angeles and other parts of California to seek care, so please donate to Access RJ which is the California statewide abortion fund, which I happen to be a board member of. So support them with some money as well, support BFR with some money so you know, if you got it like that, you know, spread the money around. It's the holiday season. I know you're in the giving season, so just spread it. Spread it everywhere, okay. Thank you so much for listening to this episode, and I'll talk to y'all later.

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