You're listening to cubicle to CEO episode 202. Today's case study on flipping a flopping launch features and need to seek a lawyer turn brand and copy strategist and the founder of Wordfetti in late 2022, and Anita experienced the slowest launch he had ever seen, with little intake on the waitlist and sluggish sales during the first five days of OpenCart. Rather than giving up a Anita made a bold decision to completely switch her launch messaging and strategy in the final 48 hours, the details of which we'll uncover in this interview, the result, over 65% of students joined in that final 48 hours, completely changing the original outcome. For ideas on how to turbocharge your trajectory when things are slow. Keep listening for the key things that turned this failing, launch around in crunch time.
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Hello, hello. We have a nice to see you here with us today. I'm so excited all the way from Australia. Hello, friend.
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. Well, I am really looking forward to digging into your case study. Because it's a story I think we can all relate to which is one of we try something in our business, maybe it doesn't go how we think it's going to go we're dealing with feelings of failure or shame or whatever it may be, especially when it comes to launches. But you were able to turn it around in the last 48 hours which I love. I feel like this is like you know the hero's journey of it's never over till it's over. You're not finished until it's done. Before we get into that though, Anita, Of course I need to hear your cubicle to CEO story. So tell us what made you take the leap into entrepreneurship
You know what Ellen It was literally like that was literally a cubicle. I guess the I'll take a take the listeners down I guess the memory lane so I guess. I came from a very traditional Asian background and I say that because my parents were very much like doctor or lawyer, and Anita does not like blood. So lawyer it was you know, so I studied law and psychology and University took me a good six and a half years to finish the degrees and do the corporate thing.
So worked cubicle for a good four and a bit years and I'm not going to lie I did really really enjoy it. Like I did some really fulfilling work in I worked in the government here. But for me, my personal like watermelon to the head moment was when I actually lost my dad quite suddenly. So my Dad is like this like he ran, he swam, like he climbed trees like he was the most like this inspirational figure that nothing could literally harm him. And he was a business owner, both my parents were business owners. And going through that, which obviously, was the journey in and of itself. I, first of all, think I grew up very quickly overnight. But also, I think, secondly, I just saw and looked at where I was, which was in this cubicle literally and being like, is this am I going to be happy? Am I literally going to be here for the rest? Next 1020 30 years, because that's how long you stay in government? You're locked in. And I was like, no, like, I don't I don't want to be here.
So I started to do side hustles, I had two failed side hustles before the one I'm in now, which is now my full time gig. But that was pretty much the journey, the story as to how I kind of kick started, I think I always had a creative bank account kind of vibe that I've never got to really tap into in law. I mean, there's only so much creativity you can inject in policies and legislation, aka none. So I did a lot of creativity things on the side. And Wordfetti, which is the business that I have now was my third side hustle. And it just kind of grew organically, purely through word of mouth, we launched when I say we, it's me, it was me. I created the website launched it, it was crickets for eight, nine months, Ellen, until I got my first lead because no one knew who I was. And then since then it just kind of grew organically through word of mouth.
Amazing. Well, you know, I feel so touched by your story. Because obviously, even though we're across the world from each other, I feel like I can really relate to growing up in a very strict Asian family a little bit different. My parents were never quite siloed on Oh, you know, doctor, engineer, lawyer, it wasn't really like that with them. They encouraged our creativity. But for sure, there were still set expectations for what a career should look like. And so I think departing from that, you know, always feels scary, but what a, what a beautiful way to honor your dad and how he lived life with so much adventure and just for you to build your own adventure through your business. So I love hearing that story.
And I wanted to also compliment you by the way for Wordfetti. Before we get into the case study, I just have to say this real quick, I was going through your website and the brand is so on point, because your website feels like a party like it actually feels like it. Like it has so much spunk and personality. I highly recommend if you're tuning into this episode, and you want some inspiration for how you can be creative with how you present yourself online. And you know, you just want that kind of that way of seeing how someone who really lives authentically online how that looks like I would highly recommend checking out Anita's website, of course, we'll make sure to drop Wordfetti and everything related below.
Thanks Ellen, you got me blushing.
Well, it's well deserved. Anita, your your case study like I referenced a moment ago is really unique because we get to hear the story of "failure". And I put that in quotes because I don't really believe a lot of things truly are failures. But you were in this launch, right and just to set the scene for our listeners, you were in this seven day launch. And from the beginning, from the waitlist intake period, things were already rolling super slow. Then cart opens, you're on day five of a seven day launch. And you realize, oh my gosh, if nothing changes, like we're in the red, we're losing money on this launch. And at that point, you decided to make a drastic change. And then in the last 48 hours, you ended up enrolling about 65% of the students in that final push and I'm so excited to get to the details with you. So real quick tell us what was this product or service that you were launching? How many times before had you launched it and what was the price point who was it for?
Yeah. So the program that we were launching is called Wordfetti Your Words. It's it's our signature copywriting program where we really take online business owners but also copywriters. We take them through this step by step framework which is ingrained also in psychology to help you actually get the brilliance out of your head into words that sell that will drive audience to take the action whether or not that is to inquire with you whether or not that's to buy the thing that you want them to. So it's really ingrained in how to write in a way that's going to drive action and sell throughout methodology. I first launched word video words as a beta back back in 2020, early 2020. So a little bit of context we came from, like, we've also got to shoot you on. So during that period before 2019, and 2020, this is before me knowing COVID was around the corner, we decided to start like a digital arm to the business. But to do that, and this was really hard, we had to distribute our service arm because I needed the space to create the curriculum.
And that was hard, because for so many potential listeners, they might be like, I want to start diversifying my income. But that means I have to say no to clients. And that was hard, because we were going backwards for a good three, four months to create the curriculum. And then COVID came, we had just let go of some of our clients who I'm grateful to say that they're back with us now now that we've really built that digital arm. And yeah, we had no new clients back then. But it was 2020, early 2020 was when we first launched it. And we sold it to like around 20 Beta students. And then we launched it three times live launched it three times after that. And the launch that you're talking about Elon is the one that was towards the end of last year. So 2022 we launched around September, October, and that was the launch where pretty much as you mentioned, it was slow. It was slow, so slow that I was like oh my goodness, like I was questioning everything I probably ugly cried like a million times a day. And I was literally feeling like, okay, so I guess now I'm off courses anymore, because you know, everyone's back in their either jobs, or they just aren't, you know, locked down at home. So there we go, it's on?
Well, I mean, I appreciate the honesty. And I think that you know, any of us in that situation, understandably, would feel frustrated, disappointed, sad, angry, whatever confused. All of the things that you were probably shouldering especially as the leader of your business. So this was something that had been successful before in prior live launches. And then this time, you were shocked, obviously, by how dismal the results were, at least in the first five days of the launch. Outside of it being just post COVID. Was there any other factor in this fourth launch that made you feel wasn't working for you?
Yeah, 100%, I think there were two three key things. So of course, there was the element of I think people were just traveling, you know, it was end of 2022. So by then majority of the cities around the globe, were starting to open and I noticed a lot of people were one, traveling. The second thing was, of course, this is globally as well, we had economic wobbles after the pandemic, which, you know, there was the housing boom, but there was also the interest rates on the rise, which meant people were also free and fair, completely fair, where people felt more, I guess, conscious of their purse strings, you know, as to where they were spending their money, which I completely get it. And of course, the third element was Christmas was around the corner. Now we've launched around September and October before, this was probably more towards the end of September, leading towards October. So our launch period was end of September, early October. Whereas previously, I know it's only a couple of weeks, but it was early September that we launched, which could have also been the other, I guess, added element people like well, it's Christmas, I'm probably going to be offline. Do I really want to, you know, invest in jump in at this time? Maybe next time? Right.
No, I do think the timing of live launches. While it's not I think the the biggest contributing factor to the success or not of a launch. I do absolutely think it plays into buyers decisions. Right. Which, which makes complete sense. Did you already state what the price of this program was just our listeners?
It was $1997 US?
Okay, so just shy of 2000. All right. So we're talking kind of mid mid ticket, not quite high ticket, but definitely more than a impromptu purchase, right?
Yes, yeah.
So you were in this spot, and you had 40 hours left to go. I want to talk about how you completely change things around from three different angles, actually, from a mindset perspective, a messaging perspective, as well as a strategy perspective. Let's start with the mindset piece. What gave you the courage to keep going when it probably would have been just as easy to pull the plug and say, okay, obviously, this time it didn't work, right. Like, what were you telling yourself in that moment to get yourself out of that ugly crying and to do something?
Ellen I wanna premise the fact that there was a lot of lows in the first like five days because you know, anyone who's gone through live launches, you would know that it's almost like not just that event you have built Sit up almost two, three months prior to that one event, you know, so there was a part of me where I felt like oh, my goodness, like the team has poured their love into this as well, I almost felt like I, you know, wait like failed them because they poured so much like, from emails to of course sales pages, there's a whole thing that happens before the actual open doors to even the waitlist and the public. So I think I felt down because I felt like the team also, you know, in a way fell down because they were like, oh, like we were really thinking. And I know, I was talking to my office manager, she was resolved, I really thought people would be jumping into this, because we had a lot of people join the waitlist, etc. And for me, what really helped me shift I had to, I'll be honest, like, I had to get to the lowest of lows, where I was faced with the 48 hours left.
And it's moments like this during a launch where you had these expectations that you wanted to meet, but you didn't meet it, that you could either go one or two ways. You could either look at it from a space of, okay, well, that sucks. No one wants it anymore, which don't get me wrong. That was me for the first five days, no one wants it anymore. No one wants this cause causes are over. And you should probably do something else. Or you could look at it and reset whatever you want to do. And actually look at it from a space of an I read a lot of tests, previous testimonials from our students with epic as heck wins. who have gone through the courses, I reminded myself constantly unlike you've got to look at literally the proof is in the pudding. Like, and I say this quite often. But if you wobble, your audience is going to wobble. In other words, if you yourself are showing up and I was wobbling, don't get me wrong, because I was questioning whether or not people would even want to do this anymore. So I would be like everyone I am. Yeah, look, the energy is completely different to me, it's showing up from a space of this program is going to completely change your business. In fact, it's going to help you make money. And it does the proof is in the pudding. Our students have gotten epic results by going through this program. So I think for me that was the fork in the road moment, was I going to go into this vortex of just doom and gloom? Or was I going to be like, You know what, you've got a reset, you believe in this product? If you wobble your audience is going to wobble? If you yourself do not feel confident about this offer? How can you expect your audience to buy from you, you know, you're not going to buy from someone who themselves are a little bit you know, wobbly, right?
So I had to get myself into the state of Anita, like this, you've got 48 hours now, what are you going to do? Are you going to choose that path, which might feel easy to actually just pull the plug to be honest? Or are you going to roll your sleeves up and actually going to be like, I'm going to show up, I'm gonna measure the success based on how I show up instead of the number of students. And I think that was a really big shift for me, because I was like, we've put so much resources energy into this launch to get it to even just launching, how am I going to measure the success, I really want to look at it less as whether or not students are set up and more to choosing how I want to show up in that moment. And that was also what I wanted to do for the team like, at least then by the end of the seven days, if it just meant we didn't get the result that we wanted, we could at least say we actually gave it out. You know? So, yeah.
And what a powerful reminder that sometimes it's about redefining what it means to have success, like you said for you to literally show yourself proof of how you've impacted other business owners through this program, I think we often get so caught up in in the numbers and the conversion rates and the dollar amounts that it's really easy to let go of, but why are we even doing this in the first place? Like why are we even selling these things? Why are we even in business, and I love your reminder to look at the evidence, the proof in the pudding, and to feed your brain that confirmation of yes, it's something that matters, and that will help more people. So thank you for your honesty there. And once you I guess had that, that shift in perspective, and you were like, Okay, we're gonna give it our all, no matter what happens. We're going to be proud of this. The strategy changed from that point, one thing I know you did was you were looking at your data and analytics, and you decided to put a pause on social content, I believe and you went all in on email. What was the data that you found that led you to that decision?
So when I decided that I was like, Okay, well, time to take a guess control back instead of kind of going into this vortex. The biggest question that I asked was, What do I essentially have control over at the moment And essentially, there were probably two, three things. Number one, it was the data and analytics. And I am such a mega geek when it comes to this, and I recommend for any live launches to look at the data as you go, even if you've got one person joining in, get to know them, and why did they actually join this time round? So there was the part of data and analytics. The second element was obviously words, that's what we do, we can I have control over writing, rewriting, tweaking the words that we've got, and that includes things like sales pages, to emails to social content, and the media. I was like, I've got 48 hours go. And I just want to also mention final 48 hours, my ops manager who's like my right hand woman, she also had facepalm with like, a cold, and she was not feeling 100%. So I also Oh, no, I was also like, oh, no, I really needed and I'm not great. So shares usually builds our funnels and automations, and all of that. So I knew I had to be careful. I didn't want to break anything, either. So I had to get intentional with what I chose that I was going to tweak in terms of messaging, or the copy. And we went with emails instead of socials.
And was that decision? Like you mentioned, for example, even if you have a small data pool, like you said, if one person joins understanding, what made them take the leap to actually say, Yes, this time versus, you know, other times when they may not have joined, were you actually reaching out to, even though the sales weren't coming as quickly as you wanted? At that moment? Did you reach out to the people that bought that round? And ask them like, why did you buy like, where did you see us? And was that why you decided to nick social? And yes, focus the writing in emails?
Yeah. So they were actually, I just realized there was a third one, which was literally listening to what people were saying in that current moment. And that included, what people were saying, if they were thinking of joining what people were saying, just in general about the course. So there was essentially three things that I really focused on, that I believe really shifted this launch. Number one was the data and analytics, number two was the messaging. And number three was really listening in on the conversation that was already happening from prospective buyers. But that also, as you mentioned, is also why people didn't buy last round, and also why people ended up joining this time around and getting that live, understanding as to what made that person say heck yes to joining this round.
I want to circle back to messaging in a bit. So we'll get there. But I want you to expand on what you mean, in that last piece of the difference between people who didn't buy last time who actually chose to buy this time? What exactly did you hear from them in terms of why they decided to join? And how did you let that impact the approach that you took for the remaining 48 hours.
So there were essentially three things when I said the third element was really listening to what people were saying there was essentially three things I looked at. So every single launch that we run, we always do a non buying survey. So good, so juicy, it takes 60 seconds for someone to fill that questionnaire out. And it's just everyone who technically might have joined the webinar or the challenge that we might have been running, but didn't end up buying for whatever reason. And we also usually incentivize from a space of if you take 60 seconds to answer this, we'll donate to X charity for each response. And we would get like a pool of responses, which, you know, for example, one of the questions would be aside from cost, why did you decide not to join? And we were very intentional with how we framed the questions like that. Because by asking your audience, aside from cost, because cost is so subjective, and I firmly believe in the value that it delivers, based on the price that we priced it out. So I really wanted to know why people didn't join aside from the cost. And this is where we got the gold, it's usually I don't have the time. Maybe I'll join next round, or maybe in another course. And maybe they might share a few other things. So they'll give us a list of reasons as to why it wasn't a heck yes for them, which for us is Intel, for us to then know for the next launch, how we can better our content and pre launch content.
So I am a big believer that when someone doesn't buy, it's likely because you haven't communicated the trifecta, which is why this, why now, and why you - and a lot of the time when it comes to a live launch the why now is what changes, right? I think for me the mistake in a way that I made on hindsight for that particular launch was We use the same messaging as what we had for the launch around April of that year. And for 2022, a lot changed in April 2022, to around September, October. And you know, the why now change, like, originally, our messaging was very much like, you know, learn how to think, right and convert like a copywriter, which you know, works for that launch. However, for this particular launch was so close to Christmas as well, like I mentioned, we needed to really connect the dots between how writing words right now in October, and learning how to ride in October was going to really help you during this period where you want to switch off during this period where it's Christmas. So a lot of our messaging, and this is where it gets to the messaging part was then shifted, and I can talk about that in a moment was shifted to speak to that. So that was one thing we looked at why people didn't buy.
Number two was obviously why people did buy and this was purely manual, like I'm talking about like DMS, like notice someone joined and I might voice note them where I'm literally like, Hey, I'm so excited to have you. In Word video words, tell me call me curious, like what was the reason that made it a heck yes for you are why did you join? What are you looking to create or achieve? So that was the second thing I was collating because then I got the Intel in live time. What made people say heck, yes, for this particular launch.
And the third and final thing that I looked at when it came to listening to the audience, and what they were saying, were actually their objections. So again, this is in live time, we, along with my team would get a lot of emails being like, well, I'm thinking of this, but I don't know if I should join this round. So they would start giving us almost a list of reasons why they're thinking of not joining, or a lot of the time through these objections, you can really start to identify what they're ultimately driven by. And what I mean by that is the consumer, are they driven by ROI? Are they driven by the fact that they joined other courses, but they felt like another number, and you can tell a lot by the language and the words they use to ask you the questions. So if someone is just like, I've done a lot of courses before, I'm just wondering whether or not this is for me, that already says to me that they are making this decision based on the previous courses that they've invested in, and it may not have yielded the result that they wanted. Right. So then you can create content from that. So those were the top three things that I was listening for, to use to then switch the messaging.
So smart, especially the why love the why trifecta, right? Like why now, why this, why you? I think that is, I mean, that's so smart. And that's a great filter, really, that any of our listeners can can implement in their next launch, like, Am I answering all three questions adequately, but your point understanding someone's inner motivator, the final straw in terms of deciding yes or no? Because you're right, like if someone's basing their potential future experience in your program based on their past? Perhaps not so stellar experiences, then it doesn't really matter how much you say, Oh, the ROI of this program is incredible. Because for them, their hesitation isn't the ROI. Maybe they believe in the ROI, but it's the experience, right? And so I love that you're able to get so granular in making sure that every single potential challenge that stands in someone's way is removed through the content. How many extra emails did you end up writing to address all of these smaller to these, you know, these smaller, more unique situations as we were hearing them in real time?
Yeah, so collated all this, you know, intel and I had 48 hours. So I got a lot of time, okay, I'm a copywriter, but I can't punch out like, like, I had to get really intentional with where we were really pouring our energy. So we chose emails because emails were always our best performing during launches. And they're already like audience in that sequence already warm like they're just waiting for us to tell them why this one out. Why you so with that, how many emails I think and I stayed up until almost like one or 2am literally that night rewriting our final today emails. I think it was at least five, around four or five final 48 hours. Yeah, at least five because I had three emails going out on the final day. Originally, it was only two I did three. And then the second last day, we have two going out. That was pretty much all I really had the space and time for because I was still showing up a lot like online. So we reject that based on the intel that we got from those three things.
I'm curious, did you address a different obstacle in each of those emails? For example, like was one email focused on that person that we just talked about, like that person who was maybe not confident in the experience. And maybe like another email was focused on the person who wasn't sure what the ROI would be. Was each email coming from a different angle? Or were you trying to address all the potential problems and every email and just repeat the frequency of it? Like, which which take did you have?
Yes, that's a really good question. So the way that I approached it was less, combine it all into one email, each email almost had one objective. And I always focus on one key objective, otherwise, it gets too wishy washy. Some of the emails, I remember that we rewrote completely. Number one was we needed to communicate in that time, like I mentioned, because we're launching around in September, October, the why now elements of why should you join this right now, and Christmas is around the corner. So there was one email dedicated to literally answering that. In other words, we were saying things like, if you learn how to do this, now, you can literally set up email sequences or write copy to really drive sales while you are offline. So we use a lot of language to connect the dots between why they should join us right now. And what that's going to connect to, which is ultimately what they desire, what they desire is not learning how to write, copy. It's like when you invest in a copywriter, you're not really wanting the words you want, what the words are going to do for you. And I think so often we forget that in like live launches, or just sales copy, we're just like, you want to learn how to write copy.
But this moment in time, they wanted to know, why should I join right now when it's Christmas around the corner, and I could go on holiday or switch off? It's been a really big two years? I had to answer that in that one email. So that was one of the emails, I think another email was also I call it future pacing. So some people might be familiar with this type of content and email where you're really painting a picture as to what it looks like and feels like like full 3d as a five day whatever as to what it would feel like by joining. So that actually spoke to what it could look like if they were to join right now.
Another one that we really spoke to were the bonuses. So there was a last minute bonus that I added in the last 20 I think last 24 hours. And I think so often we choose bonuses based on Oh, I'm going to add some value. And this looks nice. I'm gonna I've already got a PDF, so I'm going to share this. But I think, again, if you can choose a bonus strategically, that will help you combat the objection as well, you should always choose a bonus to combat an objection. So someone is like, how am I going to make money by doing this, if they're driven by that, if you can create something that is related to I don't know, sales scripts to help you make ABC or these are the templates that we had. So we ended up going with templates, our audience love templates. And if you can choose a bonus to combat an objection, oh, Chef kiss. So yeah, that was another email that we did, which was a new bonus that we added in.
Yeah, I so appreciate your specificity around breaking down, like the different types of emails you're sending out in these final hours. And you shared one of my favorite tips. Anita, by the way, which I'm so glad you brought this up, because I think a lot of people don't understand that about objection or not objections about bonuses. Yeah, exactly. And I'm so so happy that you laid it out like that for our listeners. Because to your point, a lot of people especially maybe people who haven't been in the course world for a long time, they assume that bonuses are really just you know, amplifying the volume or...
Like value stacking, exactly, here's a cheat sheet. Here's a PDF. Yeah, yeah,
Exactly. Which, of course, it can accomplish that goal, too. But I think, you know, to your point, what makes a bonus truly effective in getting people to make that decision is Yeah, removing all of the obstacles in their way, right saying, Oh, I have this obstacle, but I need to made it so convenient for me to essentially make that obstacle no longer relevant that there's now nothing standing in my way of saying yes and jumping in. So that's a great tip. Thank you for sharing that. Another strategy piece I'm really interested in hearing more about is how you were able to lean on your community from a testimonial perspective. So how did you do that? Like, were you manually reaching out to current and past students and asking them for a favor like hey, are you willing to share this? Were you providing them assets to share or were you just asking people to speak from the heart and what did that promotion or that implementation of testimonials look like?
So usually, during the launch, we will have series of case studies on the podcast. But for this particular round, it was literally manual DMS being like, do you want to jump on an IG Live, which was on the last day. So I, I mentioned that we didn't push forward with a lot of the social content that we had. So we literally only had like one post go out when usually during a launch, we might have like two or three a day. So especially during the final day, so instead of kind of doing what we originally had planned, which was old messaging, I decided to do like a live with a series of students. And that was purely through DMS, we have such an incredible community. And I think, like they just jumped at it. They were just like, Yeah, of course, like, just let me know when and I'm so grateful for that. Because I think sometimes there's only so much you can say like, of course, it's important that you share why this, why now, why you. But what's even more powerful is if your ideal audience and people who have gone through your program are literally answering why this why now why you for you. That's like, amazing.
So there was a lot of manual DMS there were testimonials and the testimonials that I used as well in the final emails. So one thing I really want to share is, again, with testimonials, we think it's just oh really nice words about me about the program or about like XYZ, awesome sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, yay. Whereas I have always looked at testimonials, again, to combat and objection, when we really take the time to read and look at the language that our students are sharing in that testimonial. There's usually a theme. So they will usually say something along the lines of, you know, I joined what video words because I was really struggling when it comes to copy. And I'm not a good writer, like I'm a photographer like so I don't usually write but so that's already a theme of I am a non writer.
Right? Yeah, it's an identity they have. Yeah, right. Exactly.
So then they would be another testimonial that might be like, you know, I've joined a lot of courses. And, you know, I was really thinking as to whether or not this is just another course. And this is literally a testimonial I can think of but that theme is I have got a buffet of courses, but this is the one that worked. So you can theme up these testimonials and use them and strategically sprinkle them with your emails or on your sales pages. And we then chose testimonials based on what people needed to hear right now. Which is why should you join this course where it teaches you how to write copy in October, when you were about to switch off, that was what we really needed to answer. So we chose a lot of testimonials that was like, you know, within, like we had one student that was like within five weeks of joining the program, I was able to make X, X and X and I was able to blog like that in and of itself, clearly defined timing gave people the opportunity to see well in five weeks, that means literally at the beginning of December, I could potentially a b and c.
So that was leaned on the community for the lives leaned on the community for also, yes, asking of the testimonials. And to answer your question before, which was how did I kind of ask for these testimonials? I usually give them prompts. And these prompts are just broad, they don't have to follow it. So it's like, if you do need some guidance as to how to structure the testimonial, then here are like four or five things to consider. And these are things like, you know, why did you join? What was it like before you joined, et cetera, et cetera, so that it helped them almost frame up the testimonial just by following the prompts. So, yeah.
So so smart, and it makes someone I mean, I know this to be true. When someone asked me for a testimonial, I really appreciate it when people give me a very specific idea of what they're looking for. Right? It's much harder to say, Okay, can you just share anything, anything you want? Right, like you don't even know where to start. And you kind of get that brain fatigue, right. But if someone asks you a very specific question, I feel like our brains are were primed to be able to answer that. So that was such a Smart Tip I took away I think another thing that I hope our listeners really grabbed on to was how you grouped your testimonials by a theme or a common objection. And were very strategic about where and how you placed those testimonials to support I guess the argument for lack of a better word in your email. And so I'm really hoping that our listeners for your next launch, maybe instead of and I know we could do a better job of this too, instead of just throwing up all of your testimonials in one big hodgepodge really combing through and looking at what are the common themes that group A group B group C might have and how can I present them in a way that shows how they support one specific value proposition or one specific challenge Crusher, objection Crusher, whatever however you want to say that so Love those tips. Thank you.
Yeah, it's one of those things where I think it's one thing to get the testimonial, but there's so many things you can do with it, like study the language that people using the testimonial and use that in your sales copy and emails as well. There's only things that you can do. Yeah.
And I want to go back actually to what you said about in lieu of pre scheduled social content, you actually chose to go live with your students? How did you find that to be? Was it effective? Did you feel like that was a strategy that now that you've done it, you know, in that launch? Would you repeat that again? Or do you feel like it wasn't as effective as what you might have seen? If you had, you know, continued on with your regular social media posts?
That's a really good question. Because there's probably only one or two people that I can actually attribute them joining to them watching the live, I don't think I will really know. And that's the tricky thing with lives. Because unless it's, for example, with our webinar platform, we can see when people drop off, we can see how focused they were all of that. Whereas on IG live, you don't really know. Like, whether or not they're watching the whole time, whether they're watching a replay, especially if they don't comment. Right. So that was one thing that's tricky. So I feel like I don't know really the answer to how successful it was.
But the funny thing is, I get really nervous in lives. I don't know why I'm like, where do I put my hands? Like what? Like, I'm fine with like conversations like this, I love this. I love like, you know, even live virtual conversations when I'm talking to someone, but when I'm just talking to you know, a camera, I would get quite nervous. And I would remember I would do like starch answer for I do like a live. There's something about lives and I'm working on it. But I think I really enjoyed it. I think what made it enjoyable for me was to actually see it as just a conversation with my students. And that made it you know, just an enjoyable moment for me to talk to and reflect on how you know what video works has helped them and their business. And they were just so none of it obviously was scripted. Like it was literally like just us catching up with a virtual cuppa. And we were chatting about what's going on. And one of them I didn't even know it was like, Oh, I've just literally hired someone who is inward video words to help me with the website. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. So there was just a lot of beautiful, little unexpected moments that happened during these lives. But it's tricky, because I don't actually know the answer to that as to how much it helps.
That's totally fair. I mean, I think anytime you do top of funnel brand engagement or awareness can be difficult to track, you know, did that person watch that live? And then did it lead them to doing another action that led them closer to making a decision. I mean, there's there's so many unknown factors there. But what I do like about what you just shared is because I mean, at least from what I understand, from what you just said, you were sharing the replays as well, I'm sure there were organic testimonials and feedback thrown into those lives that you can now repurpose, again, future launches. So I guess even if you think about it, from the perspective of it just being a content creation, opportunity, or an asset creation opportunity for the students who may not ever take the initiative to film themselves, you know, sharing a testimonial, but wouldn't be willing to hop on live and in a different format, you know, share similar sentiments, I just think that diversity of opportunity to collect feedback is is really wise. So I wanted to pull that piece out.
I also meant to ask this earlier, when you were talking about, you know, the three different ways you were listening to your audience and how one of the ways was that you were looking at your survey feedback from people who didn't buy last round. And timing was a big, you know, issue for them, which then gave you the clue to really focus your messaging on that this past launch? And those last 48 hours? Did you end up reaching back out to anyone from the previous launch? Who would answer the survey saying it wasn't the right time? Did you manually send them any emails or DMS encouraging them to join in that round?
Yes, so Okay, so this is really interesting. So there was one more thing you've just ignited what we did, that we didn't do, which was we didn't actually reach out to them about this offer. But we reached out to another audience who we knew this would help them towards that next stage. So one of the things that we also did for the previous launch you just reminded me was we also had a like a membership offer. This is completely different to what video words are starting to offer. We messaged people who were in the membership and we invited them to actually join word for your words for I guess a one time only offer to join because it made sense for them once the membership focused on a lot of the content so content is always on until Talking about things like social media emails, whereas what video was was more of the foundational psychology motivation we go into that we go into like literally how to get a killer testimonial, all of that. So it's almost like you need both, like hand in hand both to make it work, like in a way. So we invited as well, people that was in the membership to join for a one time only offer in Wordfetti Your Words as well, during this period, which helped, we had quite a number of people that join through the membership into Word video words when we could communicate, I guess, the value of joining wedge video words while you're also in the membership. So we didn't do that part. But we did do this other part.
Yet, no, that's so smart. Because it's proof right? That it's always going to be easier to upsell someone who's already purchased from you, then to get a brand new person to buy for me the first time. When you say one time offer that you gave to your membership people in specific was it a discounted rate, like what do you mean? What was different about their invitation to join versus the public's?
Yes, so we invited them to almost apply part of their membership investment as credit in the program. Because in a way, like I mentioned, they complement each other. Like when it comes to word video words, you learn how to find your voice and the messaging and write copy that sells but the thing is you need content to create visibility. Content is all about visibility, like social media is all about visibility, but you need to get visibility and then convert them into sales. So it's like you need both. So we incentivized it by letting them apply a portion of their membership into Word video was so it almost felt like it was complimentary. Both programs were complimentary together. Yeah.
I love that. I I'm really curious if any of our listeners try that in their next launch. If they have a lower ticket product, maybe going back to existing customers and say, hey, I'll give you a credit, like whatever you've already paid into this, just apply it to this purchase, I would have to look at our offers to see what would be a complimentary offer that would make sense in that context. But I think that would work really well. I mean, I know that once you've already paid something into a product or service, it kind of feels like that money has already lived its life. So to get an extended shelf life and be like, oh, let's repurpose that money, you've already said goodbye to and put it towards this thing. It makes it easier to place it on your consideration list. So love that. I'm so glad that triggered that.
Yeah, that totally triggered that thought.
I'm hearing from everything you've shared today that it seems all of your strategies and your traffic sources, especially if you focused on your own email list. Seems like they were all organic. Did you have any sort of paid element to this launch? And if so, what factor did that play in the final results?
Yes, so we've always actually ran ads. So full transparency, we've ran ads to I'm just trying to think even with our first launch, we played with, you know, a grand or two grand. So this launch, we spent around $12,000 in ADS. So our purpose when it comes to ADS is to really list build, and retarget. So we spend the bulk of our ads budget actually in building the list and the pre launch elements to get as many people through that pre launch element. And then we have probably like a 30% 40% left of the budget where we retarget people that have already been part of that journey. So yes, we've always ran ads. And it's interesting, because I've had one more launch after the end of 2020. To launch that one, which was in 2023. It was in April, that one was even better. You know that launch, we did one thing that was very different, that completely catapulted the results for us.
But looking back in terms of the ads, it was tricky, because we were also battling with like Black Friday sales, there was a lot of other big course name launches that happens that I remember we were literally it's a competition like when it comes to ADS you're battling against who's got more money to kind of put the money on ads. So we've always seen results when it comes to ads. But what's interesting, Ellen is what we find and this comes back to the data, what we find is we will get people who join let's just say for the September one from 2022. And we've got a spreadsheet internally that we actually profile people where we're actually looking at when they joined our list and when they ended up buying an offer. Amazing, because then you can start to see how long it actually takes someone roughly if you do, you don't have to do everyone that's exhausting, but you can do like a good 100 potentially at least We get a bit of a pattern. And our pattern is usually five, six months.
So what that means is when someone joins our email list, it usually takes around five, six months for them to actually buy in to something. So what usually happens is we pull ads into a launch, some of them might join that round. But then what we find is a lot of them will end up joining maybe the next round, or buy something around five, six months later. So it's always like a, I don't ever see it as like a lost money kind of thing, because it's like we're building the email list. And that to us is one of the most important assets as well. And knowing that data, we have confidence to know that they're probably going to within five, six months join something that we've got.
So that's such a good nugget. Yes, yes. Yes, exactly. It's like that delayed lag or delayed gratification, right. If you know, if you know, the sales cycle. Yes. You know that that's a really interesting point, too, because, you know, we've experienced just add a little layer of our own experience around, you know, running ads and the sales cycle for a customer. Back when we used to run ads to cold traffic, people who had no idea who we were straight to a low ticket paid offer, like a $27 course, you know, we would be converting people sometimes within 24 hours of them first ever discovering us. But once we, for example, nowadays, we currently aren't running any sort of like tiny Offer Funnel, we're probably going to bring one back. But at the moment, we're not.
So to your point, when I'm now looking at the data of let's say, the people who joined our most recent round of pay to create which is like a live course creation challenge helping aspiring course creators. It's interesting, Anita because I do notice a similar thing where they'll have opted in for some sort of freebie, and it could have been even for a freebie that was completely unrelated to the course creation challenge, right? But then they're on our list for maybe three to four months and then you know, an opportunity comes for them to join something like this and then they do so. Yeah, I love that nugget. Thank you for sharing that extra bit of wisdom. I just I really appreciate your transparency here.
Yeah, get a little spreadsheet. Like honestly, it's just such helpful intel because for us then we also know which freebie or which lead gen is the best performing so that we feel more confident. Next time we run ads we know freebie one or lead gen one is the one that's resulted in more conversions for this course. We go ham on that lead gen next time so such just It's just helpful it's data.
Data is is chef's kiss! Queen, rules our world. I I want to wrap up this case study with one final question because I know our listeners would just hate it. If I didn't ask you this. You just kind of like sprinkled in casually that your most most recent launch the one that just happened April of this year 2023. You mentioned you did something different or new that totally catapulted your results. What was that?
We ran a paid challenge. So I actually, we have never ran a paid challenge before. So we ran a paid challenge. And that literally increased our conversion rate upwards to 18%. It was. And then I actually I was talking to I actually got this idea from Amy, like Amy Porterfield, who she was on my podcast for a little bit and she was sharing about like, oh, maybe we should do this for the next launch. So that was back in Feb or March. So our launch was in April. And we ran that. And while I was nervous because I've never read anything like this before. But it ended up being the best launch that we've probably had. Because I think once our audience were able to join the challenge and get a bit of a taster because the challenge was very intentional to show them how they can write copy faster for us to show them how they could do that. And for them to actually see for themselves that they could do that literally by investing just one hour, over three days. That was all that was all. They were like, oh my goodness, like it can be easy. It doesn't have to be hard. So then they felt ready to join us in the course.
That's, that's awesome. I can say from personal experience on both sides of the coin to like being like actively participating in challenges as well as having hosted, you know, nine rounds of a pay challenge ourselves. Pay challenges are incredible for conversion because really that level of accountability and your capacity to help someone achieve a win or some sort of mini transformation quickly, really builds that trust for the ascension to the next level. I mean, we're a little bit different because we don't upsell into any sort of program after our paid challenge but I can certainly see how it works so well. So that's a great, great last little nugget for our listeners to apply. I need to thank you so much for just all of your transparency today your vulnerability and sharing your numbers and the real and raw emotions. Then the ugly cries. I feel like we all can relate to that. What would you like our listeners to do next in your world after listening to this conversation? What are you excited about that we can send them your way for?
If you want to kind of uplevel I guess your copy through, I'm all about simplicity and keeping it really easy and simple. So we have got a really exciting freebie, which is the five free e-lessons I call it, which is every day over five days, I send you a 10 minute copywriting lesson for you to make small tweaks in your copy to make it even better. So wordfettigroup.com/freebie, I'll share with you that link.
Perfect. Thank you so much neither and yeah, if you're listening to this, don't even worry about typing in it and just scroll down to the show notes. We'll make it easy for you. It'll be clickable, you can go straight there. That is such a good freebie. I'm totally gonna sign up for that. Because I'm all about the little tweaks I'm the same way. Sometimes it's the smallest changes that create the biggest results. So love that. Thank you so much Anita!
Thank you so much for having me - adore you.
Hey, Ellen here. Thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode linked to a friend, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big!
