Ontological politics 2 20220523

3:36PM Jul 19, 2024

Speakers:

Rufus Pollock

Keywords:

preferences

people

change

call

ontological

economics

beach

fixed

society

views

work

assumptions

budge

understand

piggy

organize

arms

river

consume

strawberry

It means to really get much by this church take exit up to six

take exit friends keep growing

keep going

so

we see is that at least two key things, word is that there is a deep and fundamental relationship between views about human nature which I'm gonna term generally ontology views about who the psychology but even more than that because religious terms you know which has often been very influential in human history is even spiritual and soul ERATION with God, and so on, and political vision so your view of human nature deeply informs your view about how we can organize society as a whole, or even what's possible. So, you know, you think humans are largely kind of corrupt in some sense, you know, aggressive dominating, you know, you're not going to imagine that you would imagine it's already possible to live in harmony with the quality without some, you need to stay in there, you need a sovereign, you need a authority figure. You know, you can say most even maybe in the family, you know, often we use metaphors for the family to represent the state. So but you know, the family, you know, if you don't have a strong decipline for your children, they'll be nasty to each other wherever, children in general. And conversely, if you think your children are innocent and good, co-oporative and loving, you can imagine that different political and organizational structures for the society. Secondly, I think the key point was that ironically, both of the dominating all of the major kind of polarities, or major views the dominant about ontological views that dominate, which is the Rizzoli and kind of nobel innocent kind of model Holmesian model, both. For a modern complex society, you say, well, actually, this is the best we've got. There's some this to explain some of the diversity in one size, people might say, more conservative, or right wing, or left wing, but essentially, there's a sense of like, we can't have we have we so big that, yes, maybe in a state of nature, which will lead us incompetent but now we need we need that's not going to work, or, you know, radically different social anarchy ones in which people totally kind of more free libertarian anarchy sense or work and where they're left with the secondary point is that we're left with a kind of resignation or acceptance of the current political order, which is liberal at best USA, social democratic capitalism, liberal capitalism, and we can argue, you know, how much tax we have now I

also would be that through for both of writings from Riot so legislative demonstate is is extraordinarily controlling the one state know the level may be retaliatory but just to take a very concrete example myself I don't really have a lot of say in how my son is educated in France leads to failure to France lingo I left the boy Germany I have less if you look in most countries, why some most cosplay

is something else. Put up face merge. And yeah,

just wait to see.

Can you please put your foot up here? Thank you. They can you put your arms and verge?

Can you put your arm in on the left birch? If you want to travel, Bethany's Oski he will help you know how to do it yourself. You've done it on the right, that's fine.

Can you put your arm in the strap? Please?

We won't need your help. Do you want me to help birch?

Can I? And then you can put it over? At Yeah. It's for your safety? Can you use a job

that is asking you can you can you do? Can

you do it himself? Or is Bethany going to move your arm for you?

No, thank you.

Thank you, Regina. Thank you,

thank you much.

This example, actually, they were kind of familiar with maybe what France runs or even as it has to basically go to school, you can't, you can't be hunting,

you keep your arms and the straps like I've got my hands on the straps, that he has his arms and the straps, but you need to keep his arms on the straps. Yeah, it's for your safety. It means that if something were to happen, if the truck maybe swerved a lot, or there was an accident, but you wouldn't be kept safe. So you need to keep your arms. Thank you.

Yeah, exactly. Basically, 10 has to go to school from the age of roughly three, and you can't really homeschool is extremely difficult. They made it very difficult to do that. It's difficult to set up your own school. It's certainly very, very difficult to have your own school and get receive money from this day. And if you do, you have to comply with this de curricular structure. So to see what goes on which is education for children learning to enjoy it you kind of have a choice whether or not you have relatively little choice about how that is organized. We can pick many, many other areas I mean, for Goodwill, at least maybe you can say society as a whole as a site strawberry you'd like a Strawberry Strawberry and put in your pocket.

Bucket, your

bucket Where's Mr. Pig fridge?

ism that. Is your bucket

this is this thing. Games. So let's see how much does

so anyway, these two kind of factors. And I would say that they're related, this kind of relates to the point out which is this this vision of human nature, it sort of says a at the scale that we are it's difficult to organize differently, the set of options are constrained to be said. The key thing to understand about all of this is that

like the nine dots problem, the this vision of human nature, the ontological assumptions about what you how people are there for how they can, how they can behave together, how they can collaborate, how they can cooperate, how they can be how things work is are invisible. A lot of the time, much like the the bounding box is to see when the dialogue problem without really you thinking about it, it's just all I'm trying to find it. Because we see, we're used to seeing the nine dots that way and seeing this bounding box, literally around them, we can't go outside the box. Similarly, this ontological vision is sort of just there probably most time not visible all the time, not visible to us. And hence, for me, again, forming deeply the possibilities you see, just like you, you can't see other possibilities if you're living inside that constraint. So the thesis here is that examining our ontological assumptions can break us out of this constraint that we're operating in, in terms of envisioning social change, and I would even say social transformation, what we're particularly interested in is, is there something significantly better radically better, not just minor improvements, breakthrough in how we organize science? And how would that come? How How would it what would it look like and how would it come about I want to emphasize it you might even if you don't subscribe to those particular views, there are many other views about human nature you know, in general, your you will have assumptions, it's just part of thinking or whether you're even conscious or not, you will have assumptions about the nature of time. Thank you. Thank you for the feedback. I have I let my buddy keep talking a little bit right now.

You don't want to talk you want to just sit in silence for now, we can do that for a few minutes. Let's do that one of the things.

So I want to bring up one other assumption which I think is even more common than the one which is what I would call ontological fixity.

By that I mean that the assumption that human nature or at least adult human nature is somehow given and fixed. That. I mean, of course, there is variation and change in what people want. Like some people like ice cream, some people don't like ice cream. But there is a general maybe the deeper level. Again, while there may be a distribution, of course, there's variation in human cooperativeness. In human altruism in human cognitive abilities. In aggressiveness and kindness, whatever, there's always a variation. This is, at least for a given person. Group, it's kind of largely fixed. And again, I think it's just something that often once you think about it is actually quite a little bit more dubious, but when people kind of tend to assume it in how they operate.

So this sense that we cannot and I'll give you one very strong or specific illustration of that being made explicit in an area which is in the area of economics. So economics is probably the, I'd say, the kind of representative discipline on Late Modernity though talk to Brett she has a preference right now, as a preference. Economics is incredibly ideologically our society Okay

so apology examining the assumptions of economics

to put it wrap your head

around how are you

examining those assumptions, assumption economics are quite addictive, they don't just like, oh, it's interesting, these really kind of flow into our society or affect our society in a big way. And again, they also tried to be sort of scientific and neutral. They had one of those, if you know, I don't know how to express a classic when people examine, you know, the economy or individuals, they tend to have this crude model, which is that there's preferences, which is like you'll like or dislike what you want what you can if you value you know, some people like eating peas and we'd like eating carrots some people like ice cream, some people don't some people like the sea side some people like the city Yeah, these are these what are called preferences. And there's choices are you what you choose to actually consume. As your are the allocation and then there's technology and institutions by the way, just even ghostie largely they're just taken there are markets structural thing that economists tend to model is because either imagine as a kind of godlike figure, you could just kind of organize society in the optimal way, which is often the contrast the central being the perfect central planner, contrast with that seeing the market or some other device. But the key point is that preferences which played a key role because in economics, the question which I think is a very good model a good starting model is so that you know, we've got people that we need to understand why they choose things so we have these kind of utility function ideas that people are trying to maximize their utility or how well you know economics not really problems people have preferences Yeah. Which is determine what they like and then they there's a menu of things that they can buy maybe there's maybe there's producers out there

can you please put your foot on the side

would you like would you like your book bridge image things in the back would you like would you like your work

we can get picky at the beach

if you can ping me on this and he won't get with

what are the fascinating parts economics macroeconomics trying to understand the economy as a whole clearly you have reduced growth there are people who are obviously much much

much it can you please Kate Yes Can you lake in this way thank you

budge, ITM Can you keep your leg is actually I'm gonna move this leg or am I going to thank you keep it like this.

If your leg keeps coming out, you will need to take away the take that away. Take the bucket

away. Okay, Keep the leg for us like you're

in your seat over. Thank you very much

everyone's breaking into massively less than this week. Now I understand it's a good toy model the beginning when you're trying to understand like, why, you know, if we just try to answer the toy economy, those people need to bring things. Clearly people must have different preferences otherwise everyone would just eat apples. Yeah, so this is kind of you know, a lot of the time it kind of reeks was interesting, this kind of allocated question. And as its famous kind of description, which already exists, you know, how do we try to best satisfy our limited ones, with limited resources? How best do that? How do we organize production and consumption? To do that? Areas though, that preferences are given those economic models, people like apples or people like strawberries, and that's just that's just what they call it, are called exogenous in economics are talks about things which are exogenous to the model, I outside have it taken, it's just kind of given about the world, I think, dodgers which means inside explain within the distance. Obviously, it's kind of reasonable, maybe to take something from just the amount of oil or the pattern or the amount of farm. You know, the nature of the atmosphere or the boiling point of water. There's lots of things which are reasonable givens and it could see the human

Berge. Okay, can I have the bucket please? Would she have a little bag? Or would you like your bird? Would you like your book? In the back I really understand that you want piggy? It was my bed not bringing him into the front and I'm really sorry for that. I can give you the pillow and you can hug the pillow like PE

would you like to have a chat with us perch? I know you want your piggy Where do you where is piggy? Where's piggy? Can you point to where piggy is you know where piggy is

he's having a little ride on his own

budget I think you're taking this back and I think you can take these vehicles and you can just have you can have

would you like to hug the pillow? Again but the leg thing? Yeah.

Do you like a strawberry?

Would like to say hi spy Mr. Burch. I spy my lightsaber. See? Do you see what's up ahead?

Do you know what it's called?

Do you see the crane? Do you see the crane and the crane up there? Do you see the blu ray just here

coming out your window

see here the blue crane Big Blue Train yeah

nice emails

yeah

the mountain you see like the gray bumps up the front. Those Americans

who say I like

muscle use requests

can you put your Amen

yet to meet out

please put your arms around you done it yourself

you did it yes

do it yourself again keep your arms and keep your arms as much

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can you see the truck look at doing something

I really understand your frustrations budge like Mommy would be quite upset if there was stuff going on

and we're using emotional manipulation also you can just be like this one you don't have to get justified

you can if you want you did it yourself your arms yourself yeah you didn't do it yourself is that I don't know is that what you're saying?

What are you telling us Mr. Burch

I'm gonna do this

how long have you all to go to the beach?

Yeah

yeah we can get wet we can go on the water

can Bucha explain conducting explain

you want to set you up today by all setting

so for example I don't take one other reason so there's there's an economic

are talking Okay there's no talking how can you say no to

catch you

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I would like to speak please as one of my things because because I'm taking you to the beach swimming I'm not doing my work and my writing. I'd really like to do it over again. I'd really like to talk Thank you Dad he's going to talk a bit more okay

yes yes to

copy your argument

why don't you want to okay

this is

a truck coming out on a hill to take another truck take

this Italian movie but you call the overtaking you just saw past the end to tragedy

can this make a cameo? Cameo

So there's this preferences are taken as given. And there's a small area started in the 1970s. About were called dodginess preferences.

That is preferences that are altered through through your consumption, sort of revival one areas apply to smoking. I mean, it seems clear that the act of consuming cigarettes changes your preference to consume your desire to consume cigarettes in the future. get addicted models of addiction so that they're clearly examples. But in general, the vast majority of weeks you get toward econ 101 is preferences. Given there's even an ideological aspect I think of this, which is if you start assuming that preferences aren't given

there's a kind of there is a kind of liberal I would say market oriented aspect of coverings. If preferences aren't given your preferences are changeable then they're also manipulatable. They're shapeable. And this will undermine markets many things involve choice you would ask the question as a company why would you invest in making a better product? Why wouldn't you invest in manipulating choice real product otherwise known as maybe advertising and marketing? Economics has a great deal of difficulty analyzing advertising in some ways, often they have to assume that advertising is informative advertising all about telling you things you didn't know but would have liked to know not that it's altering your preferences in any way and it's a set of questions as well if I show you a picture of a prestigious person drinking a soft drink doesn't does it change your estimation of the value or like in any kind of informative way What hasn't changed in Preferences and the ways to design distinguish those two

I really have appreciated his vote of confidence is by conversation more delicious you want a bit of strawberry

you like me to talk to you birch so the question is Moochie before a little new little birch there's things that you like like possible or that you'd like to say anything you don't want switching on

would you like pizza Yeah, but she likes pizza I just like pastor would you like to pastor to this would you like having his hair washed Do you like having a shower getting water in his hand so you'd like that

experience

yeah

so you're sure that

you like Florida on your head Do you want some water on your head at the beach we'll put water on your head you want to drink

thing about references that you take these over but today you know you can you can see that some of those things see quite a tricky like but you want it mortar Yeah, this is a pretty basic human need. At least therefore like your 21st We can see the like across all its chocolate tea. Most people like chocolate croissant. Sugary is glucose there's just kind of deep you know amazing evolution reasons why we like Everybody thinks we like cold pizza which is this sort of carbohydrate rich soft tasty is somehow in traditional terms nutritious you might not be interested today you would have in the past been hired energy

at the same time

turn like that What about punches preferences in which he likes things which he disliked him to learn his name and his name like Gucci

What's up much what's up

tired you want to get it you want this

on your head yeah,

you just put the bucket maybe give the bucket

still amazing how much direction I give? Because he has to tell me why do I tell him to give me the bucket he can rock it out. Works out for himself. It's really dramatically different experience. Firstly, you know

you want it you need it on the other way. How do you put it on the other way? Do you have to maybe turn it around or something?

What are you like method? Let's take a basic preference.

Really? So. take an exam your earliest food. So yeah, what food do you like?

Lasagna?

Lots of food you don't want to

continue with eating just because Christmas Okay.

Let's take another one. Which is what suddenly kind of more complex like you like One Direction. Not everyone likes one direction and you call it it's more difficult to imagine that being a really basic thing like for itself so there's that what somebody that you dislike what's maybe a band or music you don't like?

Like house like distance music? Okay, yeah.

Or something else? Maybe the you like you don't like this

like to swim we

like to make Yeah, what's the activity you don't mind? Running

okay

where did those come? I mean, they could just be kind of random jobs and

I don't like running because I don't like to do it for a long time. I had rather it just be over and done with

and, like, running for me has always been competitive. And because I wasn't very good at it. Like I never liked doing it. But swimming, like swimming can be both. Okay. Just budget like swimming. But do you like being in the water? Yeah, so I told you about how I like swimming. Yeah, I like swimming because while you can have a competitive aspect to it, most of the time swimming for me was just like a hobby or like a relaxation or like something you'd do to like pull yourself down or have a good day or something like that

yes

whereas running like the only reason I ever ran was because I was told to at school or told to for sports or something

right so in a great sense your preferences were shaped by circumstances

really excited Where are we going? Where are we go no one's making you through that data flow that's that's got to get out don't ya

20 minutes soon join us like I Spy again

I really hate you but

would you like piggy piggy let's quickly get up

the

next time

was amazing to me how much

in 400 meters away

we're not at the beach yet daddy's just getting picky for you

daddy's getting picky yeah he's open the van he's looking for Biggie yeah

wow oh I think ah

said the better you feel a bit more relieved yeah

a nice house in the hills

so what you can see from that example I think isn't those preferences are deeply shaped by conditions Yeah, they're not somehow innate. Know, you could have had different experiences because what I'm trying to get at is that preferences are constructed but also maybe a bit more constructive than just of course you've got random different things and then you could just like the people there's a kind of genetic influence and Hi this environmental influence or you might say like a river natural phenomena where there's some random aspect to where it river ends up being but there's also some shaping which is the rivers going towards the bottom of valleys it's a bit more than that your your thing was was was not just constructed by route is overlooked at random but by the actions of other human beings. things over which we have a say like, how school how did running in school for example? Yeah. How how your parents took you, sir me?

Yeah, these

are things that are shaped by culture, not simply by genetics, all I can say is like the random, the sisters, you know, just randomness of life. Yeah. Which of course there are that

that like, it's just, it would make a noise to have rings on that light, it's probably because the top lights aren't issues.

And

this is also where we, I'll come back to it, there's a really big connection with the Buddhist, non self and other things. Because if you like, there's quite a strong relationship between what I would call ontological essentialism that you have an identity, yes, you kind of part of it being essential, or having an identity is in some sense, it's fixed. I mean, it's something that's completely down. That tree is different for me because I mean, even though you could somehow more factory into me all the atoms that make up between atoms, they can be fairly different. And there's something you said that normally goes into this essentially different. What there's a fixed this, the essence, is that essence, were changeable, it wouldn't really be in essence, the very meaning of the word essence is changing. This is a relationship between I would call it preference essentialism, a preference fixedness. And the concept of you as a person. For me, for example, the famous there are famous cases. One is if, if you have a tragic case, and someone has dementia, and they gradually we say lose their mind, they lose their memory. They lose, we say they know they are no longer there, they are no longer that same person. Or there's this famous case of a guy called Phineas Gage, who in the 19th century, was working on a railway. And there was an accident. A big metal pin sharp exploded, and then some kind of blow through his

forehead. You Yes.

So you somehow survived. But he had lost a big chunk of his frontal cortex changed as a human being. They've been hardworking and diligent, and now he was irresponsible spending money on stuff. So so. Anyway, come back to the point is to say, this idea of preference. On torture thing, fixedness is quite deep. Yeah. If you start questioning, under it undermines all of these we just, for example, most of our economic activity is focused on satisfying preferences. Yeah, it's about producing goods that we want. Eventually, certain preferences are changing. Even basic education, that's like a very concrete area where it's really related. We can focus most of our educational efforts on giving people skills to create the goods that people want to whether it's to be programmers or plumbers, or be literate, all we can focus our education on them being happy, in fact, profoundly joyful with what they already have. Changing their preferences. So really, whatever food pretty much they're eating, they're like, oh, wow, this is amazing, amazing food. This is delicious. Whether whether it's the best steak in the world, or it's just some fried rice, they're like, Oh, my God, this is delicious. And I really enjoy.

It doesn't mean those are two things we could spend energy on in education. What we currently spend that into is the full Yeah, pretty much.

In fact, also society people report grave concern in the news media when consumption forms. People are like, Oh my god, amazing. People are consuming less. This is a massive win massive report in the news like fantastic shoppers, their stores are empty shopping is down across the economy. Yeah, people are satisfied with less than more joyful what we will recruit the people to join him. Joy is up and shopping is down what is Hill excess. That is not what you generally see in the news. So although consign II Buying stuff. Yeah, yeah it's it's quite deep in our society. And this assumption that the way to be happy is you've got these fixed ones. You want ice cream. The way to be happy is to get ice cream. Again, we emphasized that he makes some OPC allegiance is absurd What is this? I'm ej intuitive support for that because some things is like well I don't have water I'm gonna die this week we'll have experience of I need to go to the toilet I think they're very strong needs when you satisfy them are very satisfied. If you know satisfying, you might not even be around anymore. Yeah. But so much of our preferences don't seem like I met even those those deep preferences like the preference. Sudden we have a very strong preference not to die. Yet we will die. Yes. bodymind no one so far has lived, at least in the body mind forever. Yeah. As this body. And so this preference. That's one that no amount of technology yet. No amount of effort has changed. And in fact, we will have a lot of evidence the desire to avoid death has led to a lot of suffering involved. So really ask yourself is the you know, is there a way for people to be happy with die that will lead to a lot less suffering maybe if people were not wanting to die at peace when they were dying? So we go back there's several there's the social argument nature, one of the most invisible assumptions won't call the ontological fix the assumption that whatever your view of human nature, it is kind of given and specifically on the nature of things like my everyday preferences.

Keep my hand Yeah.

Okay.

And I've also made this point that ontological fixity has quite a strong relationship with essentialism. Yeah. Which is a very old philosophical position both in religion but in philosophy in general so both obviously if you go back to that start the start of Western philosophy it's the stuff before but the dominant force has become

this

is Plato and others Plato.

Think Plato he does a good debate about what naturally is always difficult what Plato has become to represent what his writings how they've been interpreted wasn't essentialist their words might always say extreme essentialist Yeah. Which was that there and you've put it in the beach we want to go to okay, we should probably at this point

what is that not sure? Yeah, it was like

a second lesson because I put in

the beach like it's just going straight to like the port I think

we want to go did you mess with the beach that's

the question

to take the stochastic gradient

use the right lane to take the strongest fatality was

one stop turn.

To school

think you're going on I

call myself the 1137 We wouldn't be there

because I'm going to move further was like going like further down for marriage

together

so yeah, starting with Plato, this is kind of like desert fixed assets, it's kind of two things, or at least an abstract version. And this is the famous famous site of

the cave, the cave and they see the shadows basically people cave that stuck to the chain in a cave and there's a fire shadow people and all they can see is the shadows I hate you know, me too.

And so what in the plane is joining the kind of what is the the essence of these forms is like, the true nature. So, yeah, the essence of things. Whereas a famously played with sort of was in debate with what I call the pre Socratics. Whatever it Sherif Cletus had this way, you could never step in the same river twice. Yeah. Why did he say that? What does he mean by you can never step in the same inventory. So of course I can I can go step into a boy today, and I can separate it tomorrow. Why is this academic step in the same image

wise? Because the world is changing?

Yes, exactly. But then what would that say? There is no essence. There is two different ways things are different River.

Yeah, you cause them in the same room. So it's a different river. But then, there's obviously some subtlety there. Because there is some connection between the river Yes, and that's why we can talk about it being the same but different, but there's some kind of profound differences getting other than or even more than there is no essence.

There is no essence. Whereas if there's a fixed you, then hit a wave and let people tell you your preferences and sway are changeable is always a threat to you. Well, who am I? If I find cheap, my preferences can change who am I? It's like those movies where you know, suddenly you wake up and you're different, then you're no longer you. It's very disturbing. But the thing that's disturbing, maybe is to realize that actually that's happening all the time. But suddenly Mr. Bucha is out.

Or even liberating to realize that it's also politically racist to come back to the key point. If we think that we're unfortunately fixed in the amount of cooperate, we have a debate about how competent we are. But in a way it's fixed. We can have a debate about how altruistic we are, you know, we could say, well, we're nerds or hunter gatherers, or like there's, you know, we can have a debate about the amount but it's sort of given. Right, it's either a lot or it's not a lot is a lot more gray, maybe we can do that. It's not a lot. But in a sentence ontologically it's fixed. Like we can argue about what we should do about fossil fuels, but there's only so much to burn. It's not like we can make more or change it.

Once we have ontological plasticity, we can walk onto the golf course through transformative nervous

that anytime you can change

that's, that opens up massive possibilities because it would say for example, cooperativeness is trainable. And maybe not trainable, individually but trainable as a culture. overtight late trek developable as a culture over time

Yeah, yeah. Wow, well, compassion, or love or true freedom and happiness. Because also, I'm scared, right? We need to have all this stuff because that's how we get happier.

You know, if I gotta find for the holidays, the beach, you know, I'll be happier if I, you know, there's all of this stuff known about you know, I don't almost single mindedly is like, we have to consume more stuff, that's how we're gonna get happier. And it's also reasonable things like landmark are so powerful because actually like even my mother or many people say things to you, I don't know how to perfect, I can't change, people don't change, your dad won't change. Have you ever heard that phrase from someone you know, your grandmother words, your brother would change. They're like that. Yeah. Your axe is just like that, I'm just like that, yeah. I need something, even if it's an impulse level, in the forum or other transformative practices, whether it's, whether it's your psychotherapist, or something else, or yoga or whatever, that you don't, that you discover that you're not fixed. That, and particularly the forum is so dramatic, because it's been off days, things that were like, just that way, you realize, one and in particular, you view and realize that preferences, by the way are generally made of at least two things. And actually liking or disliking somewhere that what you value what you do. But the other is your views about that. So we might be everyone might agree that I want to I want to have a great relationship with my daughter in law and my mother and I want that that's where I would value that's where we live. But my mother in law is just so difficult. And so, what you can see is maybe at least behavior or what which actually matters lady is made up of these two things, strictly we could call preferences and your views, but again that often sort of mixed together. So, what we see is that

try trans

logical, transformative city goes with then political possibility. Once we see that human nature is maybe malleable, evolvable transformable. changeable, we see the possibility for how we as a society or how we are as a culture is this is hugely more possibility. What if people are just selfish Now it doesn't mean they're selfish forever. Just the way you cannot my mother's just so selfish he or she can change. Maybe she isn't even selfish, but she could also change

so that's the key point that ontological transfer livity implies political possible. Yeah, I might possibly mean like, big possibility. Big opportunity

doesn't matter.

So in particular there will be important points. Let's just take one very concrete example, right now when this could relate several levels, which is the climate crisis. So one point is much as the climate crisis connects to material production output, a lot of what produces carbon emissions is us. Things, cars, houses, energy producing energy. No, we want to obviously we need some of that that's gonna happen. But there's a kind of question like, do people need better things do they need three calls? A $5,000. Barbecue? Do they need to travel as much as we knew they needed? Another we'd like to the question you could ask you this point is that what we really care about? Well being that happiness that joy You got freedom, peace. If it's actually the case that the biggest impact on that changing preferences, so joy, you could say in a way I enjoy more or less a war because what we see is that people have a lot of suffering and dissatisfaction even though they have a lot of stuff. Yeah.

Dissatisfied with the things they bought, there'll be like I bought this stuff. I thought it would make me happy. I bought a dress last week, but it didn't write free Can you see that?

Yeah

so maybe we should be spending a lot more of our resources or chain transforming our preferences. And the interesting thing about that is a lot of the technology for doing if I can use that isn't expensive. It doesn't require special machines. It's things like mindfulness community friendship Wait a second. Where did we go

wrong even odd things people people spend quite a lot of money go on holiday the same time as everyone else. You could probably have holidays off the cost a 10th of the cost may be by going places with other people Yes, it will constrain your work but people often do jobs and other work where the free Beach Resort check where we weren't where are we so how do we get started there was one place I noticed but there was definitely an opening

yeah

okay, let's explore let's explore

that's five years that's

what that looks like right

another part

Mr. Buchi We've arrived chumpy

is our merge

football football football pretty much

but

but you can't even get

to your destination

the other it's okay you can keep walking through the point that's so we went we basically went to

the G so

where do we want to go

beach

that's the way it looks like

I said me that seems Green

Public Assistance

looks like it goes out

yeah

it's not going to be a lot of classes. The sun's there it's not really gonna be a lot of shade and

ticket

now I know that's the problem

do I get I think there's gonna be no

budge at all

mage

mage

Sen budge

the G

do you

take the minimum wage

yeah

this

is John P

HR budge

right to the beach Picky picky Picky picky that's

difficult difficult liquid

you want to put your shoes no shoes

come back to the car

yeah

then see

Why

need the freedom to talk? Yeah, I'm

just gonna put it in the back