You're listening to cubicle to CEO episode 217. We love a woman with a strong stance on marketing, and today's guest does not disappoint. Kirsten Roldan is a firm believer that millionaires send emails period. Her program Million Dollar Email makes businesses social media optional by helping CEOs scale revenue to the million dollar mark with only a small email list. To show she walks the walk, Kirsten achieved that revenue milestone herself with a then list size of 500 subscribers. Rather than take a 10,000 foot view of her email strategy. We get super granular in today's case study by dissecting one single email that made $24,000 during a launch going line by line with a fine tooth comb. We'll get into all the details, open rate, click through rates, subject line, time of send, order in the launch email sequence, CTA and more. Not one to shy away from polarizing strategies, Kirsten also lets us in on how she sends five to 10 emails a day during a launch while sustaining a low unsubscribe rate, why she doesn't bother segmenting her list for most email sends or tracking open rates and click rates in real time, and why she won't give her students email templates. This thought provoking conversation is fire and not just because of the hot takes. Let's analyze.
Welcome to Cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On this show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes. Subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday.
Kirsten it's so great to see your face again, I know we were just together in person at Jordan's Make Your Mark LIVE in Dallas. And we served on the same panel. And I was so impressed with you not only your stage presence, but also your strong convictions about email marketing, which is a really exciting topic that I always like to nerd out about, especially when it comes down to a very specific email, which we're going to cover in today's case study on how Kirsten was able to generate $24,000 in sales from this one email that we're going to go over line by line. So welcome Kirsten to the show.
I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me anywhere that I can talk about email, I'm happy.
Well, Kirsten I want to start off with your cubicle, the CEO story. So what was that final catalyst that led you to jump from employee to entrepreneurship?
I love that question so much. So my cubicle to CEO story is I'm always gonna tie it back to email because it's true. I was in healthcare and a really demanding job. And we weren't able to use our phone or the internet. So when I was disconnected from social media, like I was truly when I say that I was truly disconnected. And I was using email marketing, to stay in touch with my leads, and to continue to sell to them even when I wasn't on social media. And I finally took that leap from cubicle to CEO, when I realized that I had enough people on my email list in my audience to be able to have a full time business. I had made over $300,000 at that point with a nine to five. So I was like, this is proven. I think this is proven right? I was one of those people that was like, I'm never gonna quit my job. I'm too scared. No, no, I could never do that. But then I was like, Wait a second, I think this is proven and and I have a proven sales process, which for me was email marketing, I have a proven sales process. So I'm ready to jump. And so December 2020, was when I officially left the cubicle and became a CEO.
Wow, that's a lot more recent than I even realized. And it's it's kind of cool. We actually share a background that the last job we had before jumping into entrepreneurship was in health care. I was a in corporate marketing for a health insurance plan, and so can relate on that aspect can't rely on actually preparing and testing my business concept before making the leap. I definitely went the opposite direction where I just left without a backup plan. So kudos to you for building out a proven concept before taking the leap.
I love your story too because what's so impressive is that you have been able to generate a very profitable business with a small email list. And I think that's the thing that holds a lot of people back is feeling like their list isn't large enough. And I just want to encourage anyone that's listening. We're going to cover this more in depth in the case study next, but Kirsten has reached more than a million dollars in sales in a single year with a list below 1000 subscribers. And in today's case study, it's actually even less than that. So just as some encouragement for anyone out there thinking it takes a large list, Kirsten definitely is breaking that mold. So let's get into the case study. Because I'm really excited. I have so many questions for you. This was a public launch, but you actually had a private or a pre launch sale window before we enter the public launch. So you had done about $22,000. In that pre launch sale window, I just want to touch on that really quick. Was this to a waitlist for your program, million dollar email or who was receiving the pre launch sales?
Yes, this was to a waitlist of people. So that was my launch strategy. At the time, I was focusing on building a waitlist and then selling to that waitlist. And I had offered weightlifters a special limited time bonus. And then in that timeframe, I had made $23,000. And then I opened it to the public after that, so the public meaning my main email list, and anyone else, you know, on any other platform that I may be on, such as social media, things like that.
Amazing. And for your waitlist, I'm just curious, how large was the waitlist. And then on the other flip side, how large was your entire email list at the time.
So at the time, my entire email list was, I was definitely under 500. I was under 500 subscribers, because I remember, in the middle of that year, reaching 500 and telling my million dollar emailers, like the people in my program being like, Yo, I hit 500. And some of them are like they have bigger email list than even me. So we all kind of laughed, definitely under 500 In terms of the size of the waitlist, looking to remember the exact, and I can find it for you. I at that time was in the, I'm not even exaggerating, y'all. This is like so funny to think about now. But I was in like the 40 to 50 people range like at that time, so I would get about 40 to 50 people on my waitlist. I wasn't even hitting 100 waitlisters at that time. And yeah, I just looked I was I was at, it was like 44 and so small waitlist, small email list and still was able to make so much so much email money.
I think the question that immediately jumps to mind for me and hearing that and by the way, I actually don't consider a waitlist of 40 to 50 that small. I think depending on the type of product you sell, which yours is. I mean, I guess it's all relative, I would consider it maybe between mid ticket to high ticket, right? It's it's a $2,000 program, if I'm correct?
Yes. 2500. Yep.
Oh, 2500. Okay, perfect. So like, I feel like for an offer like that a waitlist size of 40 to 50 is actually really healthy. But I'm sure our listeners are listening to this and thinking, okay, so you have such a small list, but you were still able to have a really successful launch. What do you think drove the quality of the people that were on this list? Like where were they coming from? Who was opting into your list? How were you getting them on your list in making sure that these were people with an intent to buy and not just someone who was going to sit around consuming a bunch of free content?
Yeah, this is so good. So starting with how do I actually get people onto my main list. So the number one way that I've grown my email list has been through, which is now my signature list growth strategy, what's called a weekly series. So instead of creating freebies, and things like that, I focused on just a simple opt in that said, Hey, I'm gonna send you emails every week, and it's going to be on these topics. And because I did that, I attracted people that wanted to hear from me, that wanted to learn from me, and that wanted to hear from me specifically every week. Not just when they got their freebie, not just after they went through my welcome sequence, like they wanted to hear from me every single week. They wanted to know what I was offering. So that style of opt in attracts the highest quality subscriber I found for both myself and my clients. And so that's how I got them onto my main list and then getting those quality subscribers from my main list onto you know, a waitlist for a specific launch was really all about the email content I was sending and just making sure it was as relevant as possible for them being focused on the actual scenarios that they're going through.
So rather than just, you know, every email program is like, you own your list, you need to build your email list, because it's the only thing you own. Every email program says that right? But like, what is actually happening with people's email marketing, okay, you're sending all these emails, and you're not making the launch sales, here's how to fix that, right? Like, just being very specific, is what got people is what led people from my main list to my launch waitlist, because they were like, Oh, she knows exactly what I'm dealing with, with my email marketing, and can actually help me rather than Oh, I'm just interested, I'm going to see what happens and then not convert. They saw very clearly how I can help them. Right?
Okay, I'm so enticed by by this strategy, or this approach for the opt in, I would definitely encourage any of you who are tuning in right now to head to the show notes, because we're definitely going to pull the opt in link from Kirsten. So that you can actually go opt in yourself and see exactly what she's talking about with the weekly cadence. And I love that you set that expectation from the get go like, Okay, we're going to have an ongoing relationship, you're here because you want, like you said, because you want to hear from me on a regular basis, not just because you are trying to get access to this one thing, and then ghost, which totally makes sense, because the other side does feel a little bit more transactional. It's like, okay, here's this thing of value, you, you grab it, and you run, or maybe you never even open it. I mean, that happens a lot, too, that freebies go to what I call, like the digital graveyard. So I love that you built in that expectation from the get go. And I can see how that served you really, really well for people who are actually primed to buy when you have something to offer them. So for this particular launch, then after the pre launch window was over for the public launch, how many days was the open cart?
Yes, so the public launch was seven days. Yeah, I did a full seven day pre launch at that time. So at that time, you know, for seven days, you have the opportunity to join and get this bonus. And then I opened it, and I gave another seven days for everyone to join.
Awesome. And I remember one of the things on our panel together at Make Your Mark that you said that stood out to me was, you are a huge believer in emailing your list more than once a day. And so during this open cart window, I have to assume that you were emailing people multiple times a day. Is that true? And if so, what was the frequency and cadence of your volumes of send out during that seven day window?
Oh, yes. Oh, yes, I was emailing today. Yes, I definitely believe in that. And you know, during the pre launch, it was like three to five emails a day. And then toward the end of the launch, I upped the cadence to six to 10 just depends.
Holy moly
Yeah six to 10 emails a day. Yes, yes. And it just every time it works every time it just gets the conversions get higher and higher. So I just the cadence gets higher and higher emails sell, right. And so for me, that's been the highest amount. Now I will say, I'm an email girl, right? Like, of course, but I have clients that don't necessarily match that frequency that make just as much as well. And so you also don't have to send 10 emails a day if you don't want to, but I like to.
Okay, I'm just again, I'm just so impressed with like your conviction in this particular arena. Because I know for most people hearing this three to five is probably like more than they've ever even imagined sending to someone in a single day. And you're like, oh, no, that's my starting point. And so I want to dig into this
Minimum.
I want to dig into the psychology a little bit, because I just I know our audience, and I know that the fear of being annoying, right? I know, that's like the number one thing that holds people back from upping their own frequency to their list. So how do you combat that like during this launch, when you started at minimum three to five emails a day and then ramped up to six to 10? How were you mentally talking yourself through? Okay, I got to show up confidently. I'm not being annoying. And then did you notice on the data side, a large number of unsubscribes did it hold pretty steady? Like just curious what your experience around this was?
Such good questions. So yeah, the first thing I say to myself and to others, when they're worried about being annoying is well just write better emails then. Right? Like if you're being you're annoying your audience, you're just not writing great emails, right? Because your audience isn't annoyed when you're writing really high quality emails, right? Even when you're selling every email if they are high quality and I define high quality as specific to the person reading them, right like the person reading them says, oh my goodness, this person gets it. They know what I'm dealing with. And they can help me that's quality. And so that's the first thing is whenever I'm worried about being annoying, usually I go to do I like my emails that I'm writing, because if I liked my emails, I wouldn't be worried about that.
So starting there, and in terms of, you know, coaching myself through it, from a mindset standpoint, I absolutely have gotten the emails of you send too many emails, you look desperate, you look crazy. You look all these different things. And what's helped me to get through that is Tell my bank account, like, tell my baby, I'm such a math person. I'm like the man, I don't know what else to say. Like the evidence is in the bank account, right? And so, for me, what helps my mindset is reminding myself that people are buying from it. And so clearly, it's working. So why am I questioning myself right?
Now, when it comes to unsubscribes, because I focus on quality emails, I have actually an extremely low unsubscribe rate. And I cannot tell you how many people unsubscribe from my list, but still join my program. I can't tell you how many because most people are worried about losing leads, like that's the concern. But so many people who have unsubscribed were just like, honestly, I just don't want all the emails I'm just gonna join. Right? But also, there's so many people that have unsubscribed because they're like, it's just not relevant for me right now. But then they come back, I can't tell you how many people have come back. And so I don't, I don't like have this tight grip on my subscribers. And because of that, I think that honestly helps me to keep writing better emails, which reduces the unsubscribes naturally, but also my list always evens itself out with that I have sent as many as 10 emails a day, and I've only gotten like 10 unsubscribes in an entire launch. That's very low for sending ten emails a day. Right? Sure. Yeah. And even when I've lost more, you know, in the, let's say, 20s or 30s. Still, every time it's not impacted my income. And so for me, it's not something that I try to avoid. It's not something that like, gotta make sure I avoid unsubscribes. If anything, trying to avoid it keeps me from hitting my goal, because then I send less emails, then I convert less. So that's like, my mindset.
So many great perspective shifts. Oh my gosh, like that was fire. I am so glad that you
I could do a whole episode on unsubscribes.
I'm sure we could I feel like if we ever do a bonus episode on unsubscribes, I'm definitely bringing you back. Because, look, the thing is, like I've never heard it phrased that way. But it is true that if you are providing something that's genuinely high quality and valuable, no one would be annoyed to receive more of something better, right? Like that logically makes sense. But you're so right that most people don't think about it that way. They're thinking about like, is the behavior annoying to someone? Versus what am I actually giving to someone that would either, you know, make them feel turned off by this or actually be genuinely helpful to them. So love, love, love that reframe. And I'm just shocked by I guess how low the unsubscribes are. But I think again, it kind of speaks to what you had said earlier about just setting that intentionality upfront with why people are opting into your list like they opted in because they wanted to hear from you frequently. So I feel like if they already are in that mindset, it also is a little bit different.
And I can also echo and just kind of like double tap what you said about the fact that sometimes people who buy from us like we've seen that to be true to people who have purchased from us and are not subscribers or they unsubscribed at some point or they came back at a later point. And that cycle of ebb and flow. I think like you said, if you kind of just go with it, rather than trying to tightly control it, it's just a much more enjoyable experience all around. Right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I've just again, I've never seen unsubscribes impact my income because again, we're seeing every subscriber as a lead. But honestly, the leads are gonna they're gonna come they're gonna ebb and flow, like you said, and yeah, it it's one of those things where if you're if you're trying to avoid it, then you're really just how is that impacting you're selling
100% So for these emails that then that you were sending, you know, multiple times a day, were you segmenting at all during this public launch, or was it sent to your entire list? Just want to clarify.
Yes, I was sending it to my entire list. So every single person on that list got those emails and this is a common question I get because I started in this industry as a done for you provider. I started as an online business manager. And so I grew my list with OBM clients at first. And then, you know, I grew my list with more email marketing clients and things like that the people that have come on my list have actually come on my list for a variety of different reasons. And so it's very common for people to ask, like, Do you only send emails to, you know, your OBM clients or to your et cetera? I don't know, I no longer have OBM clients. But you know what I mean? Like, like, do you do you do that? And I don't, and I never have never have. I have always sent everything to my mailing list. If you're on my email list, you're getting whatever I'm selling. And it's worked out. And I've had people from the beginning of my business still on my email list. Now in million dollar email, you know, now in my other program, million dollar CEO, yeah, I don't over segment I mean, outside of, you know, active students, right, I might segment them out. But even for a long time, I didn't segment them out. I was like, No, you should be reading my emails, take notes, right, like you're in the program. So there was a long time, I wasn't even segmenting them out. So yeah, it was all getting sent to my main list.
I mean, I can see the appeal of that approach. And I would say generally, we do follow a similar approach in our email marketing to just because as much as segmentation is really helpful for personalization, I do also feel that there's so many, like hidden attributes of a person that they may not have publicly displayed to you before. But if you make assumptions and exclude them from the opportunity to even hear about something, because you think it's not relevant to them, you could be missing out. And so I do understand and and see why your approach is effective, especially if you are tailoring your list and, it's and it's more curated and small. So I love the honesty there about, you know, your your genuine approach to that.
I would also love to know, with what you mentioned about you know, it's all about the quality of the email. And if you're sending really valuable content, then it truly doesn't matter how many times a day you're emailing someone, when most people hear that I feel like the default for them in their brain is okay, if I have to give value then it needs to be like how to or educational content. I'd love to hear your hot take on what makes an email actually valuable. Like could you give an example of something that you have said before, in an email, in particular for this launch, that you felt was giving value to your audience without necessarily prescribing them a how to tutorial?
Yeah, I mean, even the email that we're going to talk about today, templates don't change industries, just telling them that they shouldn't be using templates. Not saying here's how to write without a template, here's the How to here's the step by step, that alone is so much value. And something that I teach inside my program is looking at value differently. So possibility is valuable. So for example, like, wait, I can make a million dollars with a small email list below 1000 subscribers, that is valuable, like just having that possibility is valuable. Also, seeing your problems laid out and seeing someone with a potential solution is inherently valuable. I always use the example of the company Good American, I don't know if you're familiar with them
I love their jeans, of course!
Love Good American, I'm a huge fan. And what I love about them, what I find so valuable about them is they're not saying here's how to wear these jeans, here's that here's even thinking you can do style books, they don't even do any of that, right. But what I found so valuable is that when I go, I can choose my size and see a model and my size, their sizing and their measurements are very specific. They'll say like, fit, snug, fit loose size down, if you're this size, size up, right, they are very specific. And that right there is so valuable to me without needing to know how to wear a denim, you know what to put on with it or anything like that, like that experience alone, that shopping experience is valuable. And so thinking about that with your emails to it's just looking at value differently, where it's like, oh, no, just them knowing that my offer exists and that it solves their very specific problem and that I see them very clearly that is valuable without the How to and the DIY, you know, emails that people tend to send.
Oh, I love that just reducing finding opportunities to reduce friction in the buying process. And then also to your point and well, again, like you alluded we're going to get into this specific email, the $24,000 email, the idea of shifting people's beliefs, and that and I again can attest to the truth of that I feel like for example like for years when we ran a webinar leading to mentorship program before I hung up my coaching hat, the our entire webinar was based around shifting beliefs around what it actually takes to generate your first $10,000 month as a freelancer. And it really had nothing to do with like, Okay, step one, do this, right. And like the little nitty gritty, because truly, if you don't have the correct frame of mind around how that actually happens, or what is possible for you, like you said, then it then it doesn't really matter if you have the details, because you're still not going to have the ability to execute them. So love that just wanted to pull it out for listeners in getting into this actual specific email.
So just to set the stage in the first six days of the seven day open cart window. So that's Sunday through Friday, you had sold $10,000 of your program. So you know, a couple here are a couple of their based on a $2,500 program. Then this $24,000 email was sent on a Saturday, it brought in I guess, at the time, maybe your program was like slightly less because I think on the metrics you sent me was 12 sales that came in from this email. Saturday, because it was the seventh day I'm assuming was your close cart day. I was curious if you did this on purpose. Did you purposely plan for the cart to close on a weekend? And if so, why a weekend versus a week day?
Oh, um, that I've never been asked that. That's a really good question. I actually do have a reason. And it's because my brand so my weekly series that I became known for in my quarter of the internet was called Spicy Sunday. And because as a side hustler, I would write all my emails on Sundays would write all my emails, and I called my first version of my weekly series. I call that Spicy Sunday. And so the first time I ever made email sales as well, because I was writing emails on Sundays and sending them on Sundays was on a Sunday, so it was just very sentimental. And so I do Sunday to Sunday launches. And honestly, I've recently tried a weekday launch. And it could be for a number of reasons, right, like clients are used to me launching on the weekends or whatever. But weekend launches are the best. They're just sales. I love weekend launches for me. They work so well. And so yeah, Sunday to Sunday, I just I stick with it because I'm just like no it every time I've tried to do a week day, Nothing goes better than than a Sunday launch. So yeah.
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That is so fascinating. Because you know logically when most people might think about this, they're like, oh, weekends, people are away from their computers. They're tuned out of work. And I guess that would be more applicable if you're like in the B2B space. So obviously, if you're in a niche that doesn't necessarily target small business owners or entrepreneurs, maybe maybe the weekend actually makes the most sense. And you have people's attention. But I'm very curious. Now maybe for next lunch. We're gonna try that nugget and see how it works. Because I always love to test new ideas. And I think that's so smart for this particular email that we're about to go line by line over. What email number was this in all the emails? So because like you said, you send up to 10 emails potentially on especially the last day of the OpenCart. So in the sequence of emails that you sent that Saturday, what email number was this particular email?
It was definitely in the middle. It was in the middle of all the emails, I would say, probably smack dab in the middle because this was the email that ended up. So let's say like email five around there, or this email ended up like really turning and shifting the launch. Like I got so many reply backs from the email and things like that. And I remember specifically being like, and it was just tucked right in the middle. Like, that's just crazy. Right? And so
Of course that came out a winner. Yeah.
Yeah. So it was it was it was definitely tucked, it wasn't like the first one. It wasn't the only one and it wasn't the last one either. It was tucked. And next thing I knew, I remember so vividly, I was on an airplane. Literally that day, I was headed back home from Dallas. And I like got off the airplane and I had all these sales. And I was like what email just sent?
Best surprise to like land to.
What email just sent? Now I I'm a firm believer that it's never just the one it's always the collective right. But there was something about that email that really sparked people up and just drove so many sales. So yeah, it was in the middle that day.
So interesting. Well, lucky you listener because you get to hear the entire email in just a moment, line by line. I know I keep teasing it. But it's because I have so many like additional detailed questions, I just want to make sure to set the full context. Okay, so this was sent in the middle. Do you remember the subject line? And do you remember what the open rate of this email was? And the click through rate of this email? And if you need a second to pull up those stats too? Happy to wait.
Absolutely. The subject line was 'templates don't change industries'. The preview text was I do very simple informational preview texts. So it was, you know, 'last day to join', it was something along those lines. In terms of the click rate, it's so interesting, I hardly look at those. And I have a whole reason for it. But I'm going to pull it up the opening click rate for you.
Awesome. While you're pulling that up, I would love to hear why do you not pay attention to those numbers?
So glad you asked that. So I have noticed that open rates and click rates can be very skewed. So what I mean by that is when you think about an open rate you can have and I've seen it, you can have a terrible subject line, and a really high open rate because people like you, because they know because you have brand affinity, right. And so a lot of times people will say, oh, like I get 60% open rates, but I'm not making any sales. But I know my emails are good, because people are opening them, no people are opening them because they like you. Right. And then from a click rate perspective, there's buyer behavior, things that skew click rates.
So what I mean by that is, if we think about the behavior of someone reading your emails, someone might look at an email, love it, click on it, that's ideal, right? But most times, they click on the email, because they're just curious, they have no intention to buy, they don't buy from that email, they leave it alone than they watch the rest of your launch. They're reading all your emails, and one of them really hit. And they're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna check back on this later. They don't click right they leave it alone. Next thing you know, they get another email from you. They don't know what it said. They just said, oh, yeah, I forgot I meant to buy from them. Click now you think that email was amazing. But it might not have been right? Like it might not have been that email that actually got them. So I find that looking at opens and clicks during a launch isn't very helpful.
I think post-launch. Totally, that's, that's fine. But during the launch, it can be very challenging on my clients mindsets, because they're like people are opening but they're not buying. But if they're opening, my emails must be good. And they they start to doubt their strategy, when really the data is a little skewed. Right. And so that's generally why I went on a little rant there.
That was actually so so helpful. And I liked the way that you kind of gave an example of a potential buyer journey, because I've totally been there to where I've made a mental note to you know, bookmark something, come back to it. And then I do see another email pop up and I go, Oh, yeah, like I meant to do that thing. But it has nothing to do with said email itself. So that completely makes sense. And I think it goes back to your point that you mentioned earlier that it's important to view the emails as a collective effort rather than an individual effort. So even though and again, this is just pulling it out for our listeners, even though we're about to go line by line through an email that did result in $24,000 in revenue generated from this launch, it's important to layer that with the understanding as Kirsten has mentioned multiple times that there were probably other touch points prior to this email on the last day of cart open that resulted in that big drive forward and sales.
Okay, do you want to laugh?
Yes, I always want to laugh. Are the stats alarming?
Um, my opens were 28%.
Okay.
My clicks were less than 1%.
Interesting. So, again, alludes to exactly what you said, right? You can't necessarily judge in a similar way, I almost would. And I know that you're kind of the queen of, you know, email makes you social media optional, which is like another stance that I love about you. But I would almost akin this to how some of our lowest performing social posts, ones that you would look at and be like, wow, like that tainted got, like 10 likes, and nobody commented, those are sometimes the post that actually in the DMS drive the most number of sales, like people are saving, they're sending it to us and being like, hey, what's the link for this? I want to, you know, want more information, or I want to join. And so numbers don't lie, but they don't always tell the full story without the context, right?
I'm glad you said that. Because the reason why I know that so many people like okay, there were three clicks on that email, let's say, but clearly, perhaps people went directly to my website, or they had it saved, right, the sales page from another email, but that's over. Right. And we converted them. And the reason why I know it did, because I was getting reply backs, right. And so it's like, that's not the only metric that we're looking at. We're also looking at reply backs and people saying, Oh, my goodness, this got me, yes, this is the one, etcetera, etcetera. So I had gotten so many reply backs from that, that I knew, Oh, this was the converter, it sealed the deal for a lot of people, the people that were watching, even if they had it open on their browser, you know, whatever it was, like, that's what made them finally go and say, Okay, I'm gonna buy. So yeah, full picture data is is definitely key.
All right, friends, now for the moment you've all been waiting for. We're gonna go over this email line by line. And I have a few like, comments or questions as we're going through, but I'm just gonna read it. And then I'll have your skin expand on it. Okay, so starts off very simple.
Hey, insert their name, right, personalize that first text line. Million Dollar Email does not include templates. Templates aren't scalable. They are a short term Band Aid. I've tried them. I've had them in my programs.
Okay, I'm gonna pause here real quick. So you are starting off with this spicy opinion, the strong positioning statement? Is this a new thought that you were introducing for the first time in this email? Or was this like, anti-templates thing kind of a theme throughout the entire launch?
Yeah, this was a brand new thought. And it was because people were asking, like, what kind of templates do you provide? Do you provide waitlist templates? Do you provide webinar templates? And I was like, why y'all looking for? No, we're not doing templates over here. Right. And it didn't even cross my mind, which is why it wasn't said until the end of the launch that people wanted templates. So yeah, this was a new thought that I was adding.
Okay, very interesting. So it was like addressing an objection in real time as you were getting those feedback. Okay. Awesome. Okay, continuing on with email.
Templates create an illusion of safety. If I have a template, it'll work. This program works without templates. And millionaires don't rely on templates.
Okay, so I thought this was really powerful, because I can see in this moment, you're like making an identity shift for them. Right? Was the idea of being a millionaire? Was this something that you felt you needed to insert here? Because it's tied to the name of your program, Million Dollar Email? Or is this an identity that you were hearing directly from your potential buyers? Like, hey, we're in that six figure multi six figure range, but we're trying to reach that million dollar range? Just curious how you came to call this out?
Yes. So my brand is very centered, the name of the program is Million Dollar Email. And my brand is very centered around coaching millionaires, and through my experience, coaching millionaires, I know how to make a millionaire right. And so I like providing my audience who isn't yet at the million dollar mark with million dollar strategies so that they can apply them now because I always say, you'll hit a million as soon as you start implementing million dollar strategies, right? So that's what that was, was, hey, listen, like I know you're on my list because you want to apply million dollar strategies. Templates are not a million dollar strategy.
I love that and then you go on to say...
That's six figure strategies. Millionaires, take concepts and run with them.
So as I was reading this, the way I was taking it is in that, you know, in the previous sentence, you were doing this identity shift, like millionaires don't rely on templates. And then here, you're kind of other-ing people who use, you know, templates primarily to write sales emails. And you're saying that's for six figure people, like creating distance from who they are currently and who they want to be. Is my assessment accurate? Or is there something deeper to this that I'm not getting?
Yeah, totally. It's just like, Okay, you did that to get to six figures. But you were trying to get to a million now, right? And so, I would venture to even say, you know, you probably apply templates hit six figures, but you could have hit six figures faster or easier if you didn't use templates, right? So it was really, like you said, just like calling them into the identity more than anything of, okay, you've applied six figure strategies, but you need million dollar ones now. And you need to join a program that teaches concepts and for you to be able to apply them that's going to be more valuable than anything, which just a side tangent. I think, honestly, the brilliance of this email is I'm addressing so many layers, like so many like layers and unique objections. And one of them being like, I need a step by step, I need my handheld, I need for you to tell me exactly how to write my email. So it converts. And I'm like, no, like, you're going to come in, and you're going to learn how to write your own emails in your own words. So that's what that was.
I love that. Yeah, because, and this kind of goes back to the conversation we had about belief shifts, for as long as they believe that they have to be spoon fed the words, they're never going to be able to actually write the types of emails that you do, because they don't see that as the solution. So you have to help them, like shift their perspective of okay, this is actually the solution I'm looking for, in order to see your product is the right fit, right. So super smart. Continuing on with email.
I once told a million dollar email client, her launch emails looked like any ole sales program closing the cart and it was off brand. You know what she said, Say no more. Her subject lines look like templates. They weren't, but they look like them. That worked when it needed to it even created six figure launches. But we've got multiple six figure launch goals. So it has to shift. She doesn't need templates. She needs expert quick and easy to implement concepts. That's why she's inside my program and why she hires me regularly to consult on her launches.
Okay, so this concepts term has now been brought up multiple times. Can you expand on like what you mean by a concept? Or was that not even a, I guess, like a challenge point for people?
That wasn't particularly a challenge point? I think it's because throughout my marketing, I define what I mean. Like I mean, you know, flexible frameworks, a word that I use is breathable, right, like breathable frameworks, breathable concepts, and things like that. So my audience is fairly familiar with that term and what concepts means so at that time, I wasn't getting that question particularly.
Okay, good to know.
I scrubbed million dollar email of any templates, when I realized that templates create feelings that I want my clients to break through. The coaching I gave this Millionaire is the same you'll receive every week inside Million Dollar Email. We will be honest with you, you will learn simple Million Dollar Lessons that will transform the way you market and sell. I promise to never give you a template because templates don't change industries.
Ooh, I love the way you tie that back to the subject line.
Trust, you'll work faster and better without one.
And this is the last thing you say before you dive into the call to action, where you then go...
We close the doors to this program until further notice. Your Q2 can look completely different with us by joining this week. Enroll now
And then you sign it 'Your coach Kirsten'. One thing that I think is so beautiful about this email Kirsten is that it is so simple. It's not like chunks of really heavy content to work through. Most of your lines are a single sentence, right? It feels very, like you said breathable to read through. And you're not really getting like super granular about, oh, in million dollar email, you're gonna get this this this this this feature, right? I feel like you're very transformation focused. In this particular email, do you have any further context that you want to add to what we shared?
Yeah, I remember being for the end of the launch. And I remember specifically thinking like, what could people possibly still be asking? Like, what could they possibly still be? I've written five emails a day, like, what else do they want? And I remember I was like, How did I not think of email templates? Like, how did I not think of that? It was so basic. It was so simple. It's just like Why wasn't that the first objection I answered, right? And I remember having that moment. And so the context I would want to give is like, just really the fact that I took a minute to sit and be like, is there any other emails that people might need, like I wrote this real time in the launch, and then scheduled it out? So I did that. And I just think that's important to know that this wasn't calculated. It wasn't like this, like super strategic moment, even looking back on it. I'm like, wow, this is so good. It's hitting this and it's hitting that. But in the moment when I was writing it, that wasn't my I was just like, I was gonna let them know that we don't have templates. And this is how I'm going to answer that question.
And I just think that's so important, because oftentimes, we're trying to write the most strategic email that hits all the points and is this beautiful thing, but the best emails that you write are the ones where you're just answering the question. And so that's, that's the biggest thing is when I look back on this email, and I still I was telling you earlier, I use it still in every single launch, I use this email still still gets reply backs. And you know, at the time, though, I would have never known that this was like a game changer email. So I just funny that I'm on a podcast right now go through this exact email.
And what were the reply backs? By the way, what were people saying to you when they responded? And because I mean, as you can clearly tell from this email, you at no point in this email said, Hey, respond back with this word, or tell me this thing. So people naturally gravitated towards wanting to say something to you? What were they saying?
Yeah, people mostly were saying, Wow, that's so different. Like, they were just so excited that I was thinking differently in the majority of my I have a very brief intake form that people fill out when they join. And at that time, during that launch, everyone was like, what you're saying is just so counter industry, like, I just have never seen anyone say anything like that. And so what this email really did for me was put my thought leadership forward. And I really showed people like, you're not just joining this little email program where you set up a lead magnet, like we're thinking differently over here. And we're doing things differently. And people want to be a part of innovative cutting edge programs. And, again, if you were to tell me at that time that not doing templates would have been like cutting edge at that time, I would be like, I feel like it's obvious, but it's not right.
And so I will say, I also got a lot of the illusion of safety comment, right? That's exactly it. I'm tired of investing in programs and then not working on one and no, it's going to work like that was their actual true objection. It was the templates, it was about the fact that they wanted a proven process. Someone else I remember had said to me, too, at the end, I mentioned you'll work faster without one. They were like, Oh, my goodness, how do you know that I'm terrible at writing and I'm just like, I take so long. And that's why I use templates. I'm like, I know my people. That's why. So it was a lot of like, "whoa, you answer this objection in this crazy way". And the way that benefited me uniquely, is that because I'm an email program, it showed them that they can write like really powerful emails like that as well. But I'm like, you wouldn't have done that. If you had a template like you would have never came up with an email like this, you have to come up with your own. And so those were the majority of the reply box.
That's super helpful to hear. And I know this entire conversation has been one big spicy take right on email marketing. And I actually tend to agree with you that templates can only take you so far when it comes to sales emails. I am curious, though, about your take on templates for emails that drive other purposes. For example, in our business, one of our best selling digital products is actually an email template. But it's all about pitching yourself for a podcast. But as I hear you talk about how you're taking people through concepts and breathable frameworks, I realized that even though we market, our perfect podcast pitch template, as a template, and granted, it is a low ticket, you know, $27 product, but we see people time and time again come back to us and say, Oh, my gosh, I started booking shows or people started responding to my pitches when I used to get crickets. So clearly something's working.
But I realized that when I was taking them through the template, I'm actually explaining the why of each sentence. So helping them understand the concept around like, why would you open an email this way so that they can take it and run with it? Or like, how would you position yourself as an expert in a way that doesn't feel super, you know, basic or transactional, or like you've regurgitated on 10,000 other shows? So I kind of had those aha moments, even listening to you describe the way that you bring people through your framework, but again, just curious, and it's okay, if you have a differing opinion to me. But I'm just curious, do you feel that templates can work for non-sales based emails?
Such a good question. I have found that anytime there is a template like yours that's working, it's usually a framework, like you said, like, it's not technically like this plug and play, say what I say and Ching Ching, like, it's an ATM, that's more so when I refer to I haven't seen like line my lines, you know, for example, Hi, my name is insert my name. This is what I insert what I do, like those. However, when those are created, and they are working, I found it's because of what you said, because there's a concept and a framework and principles and philosophies behind them, that people can grasp onto and make them their own. And that makes, I think, you know, for example, we have a framework inside Million Dollar Email, that's for questions to help you build an email. It's a framework, right? It's not necessarily this line by line template. So I found that usually when when people they do have a template that is performing well, it's actually it's a secret framework.
A framework wrapped inside of a template box, right? Template pack.
Exactly, exactly. Yes.
Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, anything conversion based whether it is a monetary exchange, or getting someone to, let's say, say yes to having you on the show, is all about human behavior in psychology, right? And understanding, like why do certain things make someone interact or react a certain way to you versus not. And I think without that context, it's very hard to just, like you said, even though our template like we do give, like this is the sentence structure, this is the line by line of what we would frame or email like, but if you don't understand the why behind it, you're still not going to quite capture makes the effective email
There's holes that you're following. And you want to make it your own otherwise, right? And most people will take a template and just and literally plug and then be like, Why don't I have what I want? Right? Right? That they're just like, repeating their way through it. Right? That's what we don't want. And honestly...
You know, I'm in a money program, they give spreadsheets and my, like, spreadsheets Get away from me, it's a template, right? No, look at it, and I'm gonna make it my own. And I think that's the key is, whatever you're receiving from someone else. If it's a template, making it your own is vital, rather than trying to do exactly the thing and then saying, oh, you know, hopefully, again, like treating it almost like an ATM. Like, if I put the word here, it will work. That's not always how it works, right.
100% I also think it kind of relates to like, I tell my team this a lot our philosophy behind Don't be a Task Rabbit, like don't receive a task, and then literally just almost act like a computer just to check something off. And or like, you know, people all the time that I sent an email, check box! And they like they check it in there, like that must create some sort of result, right? When in reality, it's not the action of doing something that creates the result. But like the intention, the why the strategy, the principles, like you said behind it, that drive the result. And so if you miss that core component, the action actually just becomes useless, essentially. So, I know, we just went on a tangent, but I'm really glad that we did. So.
Same same. Yeah, totally.
Thank you for riffing with me. All right. So to wrap up your case study on this specific email, then Kirsten. Clearly, there was like an Enroll now button in this email that we just dictated, but was that the only hyperlink in the whole email? Or do you tend to, you know, drop the link in multiple places throughout the email?
Yeah, it was the only hyperlink of the entire email, I tend to only do one, just one big button. And there's no major reason for that other than I just think there hasn't been a reason yet for me to have like multiple links, especially if it's one, it'd be different. If you know, let's say I'm linking to a podcast episode, and I'm linking to enroll now. But if it's going to be just the one link, then I'm just going to put it in the one place.
Okay, super interesting. So that's definitely a different I mean, I'm kind of a link happy person where I just like, spread it everywhere, sprinkle it everywhere. But that's really cool to hear that you have found success with just putting in one place. And again, that's something that I'm kind of curious to test now. I guess we'll end this with one last spicy take, which is for people listening to this, in addition to understanding the principles of what we shared in this email that we dictated today, what is one immediately implementable email concept? So going back to this idea of strategies and frameworks, what is a concept people can try in their next launch sequence to boost sales? And just as a fun thing for our community? We're going through a launch right now as we're recording this in real time. This episode is going to air in a few weeks. So we'll have had time to gather the results by then, whatever Kirsten tells me, I'm actually going to be your guinea pig. And I'm going to do whatever concept she says in our current launch. And then I'm going to report back in the bonus episode that drops on the Wednesday after this one airs on Monday, and tell you guys what happened.
So that all
I'm excited and like, oh, the pressure is on which one to use. If we are, oh, my goodness, if we're thinking conversion, honestly, send more emails, like you send more emails, so three to five, minimum three to five a day in your launch. And you know, if you're thinking about like you're driving to launch, for example, if you're driving to a webinar, or driving to a waitlist, same same concept applies. So I would send, you know, if you're only sending one a week, right now, I would send one a day, right? And then from there and your open cart period, three to five a day. And you know, I go all the way up to 10. So feel free to. But the reason why is because you can answer so many more questions. And when you can answer more questions, you increase your conversions. So because you're not just sending one email a day or one email every few days, you have so much more selling space, right? Like you have more space to answer these nitty gritty objections. And the more big picture ones, and you know, sharing the logistics of your program, and also sharing the transformation, then the client results, all those things.
And so, for anyone listening to this, I would say the minimum thing you need to do is increase your email cadence. And honestly, for a lot of people, even just increasing it a little bit does wonders, just because you know, they're just not selling enough. And so that's going to be the number one thing is sending more emails in your launch.
Yeah, I love the way your brain thinks. I think that's my favorite mindset shift that you've shared today. Look at the cadence of emails as more opportunities to answer more questions. That's the highlight and then apply for listeners. Okay, deal, our open cart granted is a much longer runway, we decided to kind of test like kind of taking a slower approach this time and like extending open cart over three weeks. So I think what I'll do, I probably won't send three emails every day for three weeks. But, but what I will do is in the last two days or so, normally, I don't ever send more than like two emails in a day. So I'm going to ramp that up to three emails a day, for sure on the last day, maybe even on the second to last day, because that's more than we've ever seen before. And then I'm going to report back to you and everyone listening in this bonus episode that's dropping on Wednesday when you hear this so make sure you check out episode bonus number 42. That's going to be where I reveal the results.
Kirsten thank you so much for your immense transparency and all the wisdom you dropped today. Where can our listeners go and connect with you next?
Thank you. Yes, you can go to my website KierstenRoldan.com and you can join my email list there and check out my offers as well. Best place to to connect with me is of course an email but I do also have an Instagram and you can go do the same name, @KirstenRoldan and find me over there too.
Perfect. We'll drop all those links below in the show notes. Thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us. Kiersten
Thank you.
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