Welcome to the mending trauma podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Amy Hoyt. And along with my sister Lena Hoyt, a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, we want to help you recover from trauma, whether it's childhood trauma, complex trauma, PTSD, or any other trauma sustained from abuse or narcissistic relationships. We want to help you develop skills and ways that can help you to recover from the symptoms and the effects of trauma. We are so glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hi, welcome back to another episode of The mending trauma podcast, we are excited to talk about an episode, a topic today that we've had a lot of requests for, actually from our listeners and our social media audience. And that is the subject of what happens to her memory and why we have memory loss after trauma. So Lena, what's the deal with memory loss and trauma.
Memory loss is a very common symptom of trauma. And it can be kind of struggling for people to realize this. There are lots of other reasons why you could have memory loss. One of them can be if you are highly anxious, or if you're depressed. Or if you've been ill for an extended period of time, your body actually can't upload the memories, and I can't consolidate them the same way. But the memory loss for trauma is different because it typically involves terror. And when you're in terror, you can't be present. And that is one of the largest pieces of memory loss for trauma.
So are you saying that during the traumatic event, so we're not talking about childhood trauma, where it's like sustained patterns, necessarily, we're talking about a single event, trauma, or several single event traumas throughout a person's life. During that event, there's so much terror that you can't consolidate the memory, is that what you're saying?
Correct. But it also does happen with childhood trauma with family dynamics and childhood. Because a lot of children when they have a parent who suffers from emotion regulation issues, raging mental illness, addiction. The the interactions with the parent are so baffling sometimes are so scary. So there are people who can lose chunks of memory in their from their childhood because of that kind of a dynamic in the home.
Okay, thank you for that clarification. So during the traumatic event, you are obviously focused on survival, and our largest biological drivers for safety or to survive. So we're not consolidating memories, we're actually just trying to survive the event. What is the other reason? Or how else does memory loss happen with trauma?
Sometimes it can occur because there is a survival wire that gets activated, where you actually conscious your conscious mind leaves the event. And that is a blessing, actually, even though people tend to think dissociation as very negative. It's actually a protective device and a protective measure. And as we were talking about this, we were talking a little bit about some of your experiences with some trauma recovery and how trauma and dissociation has affected you. But it's not a weakness. Yes,
agreed. I feel like exactly, it's a strength that can come from the event. It's the brain's strength. And the brain did exactly what it was supposed to do, which was to protect me. And, yeah, just to let the listeners know that, you know, during some of my early abuse as a child, I did dissociate, I floated above I mean, I literally didn't float but my I felt like I was out of my body watching what was happening below. And then after that, I didn't remember the event until I was an adult. And it was about 60 days after I had moved out of the home, that I started having memories return. So I think that's exactly what you're speaking about is dissociation and it can occur during the event. And what I see a lot of is after the event, even while we're trying to heal, we start dissociating, and losing memory losing time almost. Let's talk about that a little bit, because that's how I think it shows up for most people right now in their adult years. Sure, I
like to think of it as a continuum. So if you think about dissociation, from a standpoint that it is on a continuum, then you have some really benign dissociation which every human on the planet engages in, such as driving home and not remembering the drive, because you're busy thinking about other things. Or how you can do a repetitive task without actually having your conscious mind focus on that. So that's really common, everybody has that, at the other end of the extreme is the dissociation that occurs and terror. And the dissociation that occurs in terror has two components happening. One is the sense of leaving the body, okay, which is very common, and also as adaptive. And the other one is, when you're in terror, you actually cannot be present to consolidate memory. When you're in terror, your fight or flight, nervous system gets activated, and all of your blood flow goes to your extremities. So you don't have enough blood flow and your brain to consolidate memories or to upload the memory. And one of the things we're talking about this morning is that it, it can be very unsettling for people to not have memories or to have lost chunks of time. And I think it's really important that our listeners understand that that's okay. It was a response that your body and mind did to protect you.
Yes, absolutely. I also wanted to go back to your continuum of dissociation. Because what I notice is there's, there's something in between that there's between in between that benign, I'm driving home from work, and I can't remember my drive, once I pull up into the driveway, all the way to I'm in active tear. What I see a lot of in my own life and in the life of people I work with is a type of dissociation that occurs when you're not inactive tear, but it is a trauma response. And so I thought we could talk about that for a few minutes before we move on, because I think that's the most disruptive to relationships right now.
That's a great point. Yeah. So what do you see, specifically, what
I see is that being in relationships are very, can be very challenging. And it activates or triggers some old wounds that could come from the trauma, certainly, for my own life. So if I'm in a, for instance, I'll use the example of family dinner. So we're committed to eating together as a family every single night, you know, we have five children, it, it's a little bit chaotic. And that chaotic environment can be really overwhelming for me. And so as I would say, it can be triggering sometimes, because the childhood family environment that we were raised in, could be very argumentative, and emotionally and physically unsafe. And so that those triggers can come in the middle of family dinner. And sometimes it's easier to let my mind wander away, and not be present for the conversation and just start thinking of other things. And so I'm physically there. And theoretically, hopefully, my kids feel like I'm listening and I'm trying to, but then there's this part of me that has has, my mind has has left.
Yes. And that that is when the drive for safety and the and survival comes up against the drive for connection. And you're talking a little bit I think about this kind of sensory overload that can happen. And then we if we think about triggers as a series of memories that get activated in our subconscious mind, then we can understand and have compassion for ourselves when we do check out. So I know that one thing that we work on a lot in our program is being able to notice without judgment and Being able to focus on having compassion for how our brain allowed us to survive during difficult experiences. And, and being able to notice the symptoms without them meaning anything terrible about us.
Yeah, for sure. And and I definitely don't feel like a terrible person. It's just disruptive because I can't remember conversations. So it just becomes actually problematic sometimes. If I'm not actively like, Amy, stay present, what do you see? What do you feel? What do you hear? Yeah, it just is, I think it's difficult for my family, when they're like, Mom, we talked about this, I told you, I have swim practice or, you know, something of that sort. So I think with the continuum, it's important to acknowledge that between, you know, these two huge polar opposites, is this middle ground where most of us end up living?
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, I like that. The other thing that can happen is, when you're anxious or preoccupied with something else, it's really hard to capture those memories too. But one of the things that I've really admired in watching you with your kids, is that when your kids say something to you like that, like Mom, we talked about swim practice, you do not get defensive at all, not one teeny tiny bit, because I have no ground to stand on. I'm like, screwed it up. But what I love is that you don't make it the fault of your children. And that's really easy for us to do, especially if we had traumatic relationships in childhood. It's really easy to blame shift. And instead, you tend to be really matter of fact, oh, you're probably right, remind me again. And, and so it's a very minor blip in your interactions with your kids, instead of becoming another opportunity for your kids to have relational trauma because you can't tolerate the fact that sometimes you forget stuff. I think it's great, what you're doing. Thank
you, I appreciate you pointing that out. Thank you. Okay, so another question we get around trauma and memory, is, should I actively try and recover my memories? If I can't remember them? Right, what are your thoughts on? I would say, No, nope, absolutely not. And here's why the brain has been protecting you for a reason. And when your brain and your body are ready to let you remember, they will. And it is not lost on me that I was both newly sober and newly out of my, the environment where I was abused when memory started returning for me. And that's when my brain and my body allowed me to recover memories. I think it's actually really can be very harming harmful to force memories. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts as well.
Mm hmm. I totally agree with what you're explaining that the brain will remember when it's capable of remembering. It's really important that our listeners understand that because trying to force a memory or trying to recover specific memories on your own without any kind of support could become very, very overwhelming to your nervous system. And we don't want that for people we're, we're about trying to help people regulate their nervous system so that they can do their healing. So if you are working with a mental health professional, and they're encouraging you to take a deep dive into memories that you don't have that are lost, I would be very cautious about that. We know that you don't have to remember the details of every single trauma in order to heal. We know that for a fact it's been scientifically proven over and over again. Bessel Vander Kolk and the trauma Research Foundation have done a tremendous amount of work on that over the years. And so I recommend that we do other things to work on our nervous system. One of the things we talked about and we talked about in our program a lot is the ability to stay present. And it's also called mindfulness. And it has a lot of traction and attention in in the western world right now because it works. However, it's really hard to do. And so some of the tools for bringing yourself back into the present, or what Amy was talking about, when you said something about how what do I hear, what do I see? What can I feel on my skin? What do I take kind of, yeah,
we look back, we help, the way we help people in our program is introducing them to mindfulness through there are sensations. So, you know, all of the senses of our body, and when we are paying attention to what's happening in our body, right now, we do not have the cognitive or emotional space to be, you know, in the future or in the past. Correct. And as you pointed out in our conversation earlier today, before we started recording, the reason this works so well is because when we stay in the present moment, we are safe.
Because if I mean not everyone there, I mean, but if you're actually not safe in the present moment, then you need your fight flight activated. Absolutely. But if you're at dinner, like the example we've been using, and it's loud, and you're feeling overstimulated, or any other relationship issue that comes up staying in the present moment, is going to help you ground yourself in the fact that at this exact moment, you are safe,
correct? Yeah, one of my very favorite tools for grounding, is to close your eyes and listen for four separate and distinct sounds. And you actually cannot think about anything else when you're focused on that, like I've used it for years. And you actually cannot, because you're straining your mind to pay attention to what's happening right this second, by listening for for separate and distinct sounds. So the grounding is, and the mindfulness is really, really powerful. It is also very, very, very difficult to do. And a lot of times, we can get very frustrated with ourselves because we're not staying in the present. While this is actually being in the present, and finding ways to pay attention to that, and then do the practices to help stay in the present, that actually is setting up new neural pathways in your brain. So it's not a habit yet, it hasn't been done over and over and over again by you, in order to create a shortcut. So when we have trouble being in the present, we need to be kind to ourselves about it. We need to normalize it, given the circumstances, it might make sense that I'm having a hard time being present. And then just practice, knowing that the more we practice, and the more awareness we bring to it, the easier it will become.
Absolutely. And you know, I'm a devoted follower of Dr. Joe Dispenza. And his meditations. And that was one of the things I struggled with, when I started meditating initially is I thought, I'm doing it wrong, because I can't stay in this moment. And when I went to one of his retreats, it was so helpful to find out that that's actually really normal. And as soon as when you're doing any sort of mindfulness, whether it's meditation or anything else, as soon as you realize you're not in the present, you just gently bring yourself back to the present.
Yes, the word gently is really key there. Instead of beating yourself up, you calmly and kindly bring yourself back to the present moment.
And I know that we have other things that we recommend other tools that we recommend for people when they are having a lot of difficulty with the symptoms of trauma, but they don't have core memories of what happened. Can you talk about? We've talked a lot about EMDR in our podcast. Can you touch on that briefly, and then I love for you to talk a little bit about internal family systems.
Sure, yeah. Some of the other going back just a minute. Some of the other grounding techniques can be the double breast side, which we've mentioned multiple times in the podcast because it's very effective. The other thing can be the bilateral tapping because with if you can remember to do it, which sometimes you're not going to remember if you're too much in fight or flight, but if you can remember to do the bilateral tapping it actually calms down the nervous system without any conscious thought on your part. So those are some other additional grounding techniques. And the things, the thing that I love about EMDR and internal family systems approaches is that you don't actually have to be, you don't have to talk about what's happened to you. So the beauty of both of those approaches is, you don't have to dive straight in to something terrifying or horrifying. And you don't have to provide some kind of verbal detailed account of what happened to you. In fact, that's contra indicated. And research indicates that that's actually really problematic and keeps your nervous system very activated. So with EMDR, the idea is that you start with something that's not horrifically overwhelming, and that you have a practitioner who can guide you into noticing what, what picture you have in your mind of the event. So say somebody cut you off in traffic, so you're going to have a picture, it's going to be of the worst part of that, then you're going to notice what emotions you have, then you're going to notice what you feel in your body. And then you're going to start the bilateral stimulation or eye movement. And so you're not having to be back in that memory with a lot of details. I have found it really effective for people. And some of the people in our program who've done the group EMDR with us have been really fascinated by the impact. And with the internal family systems. One of the things I love about that is that it works similarly, in that we're getting in touch with our body and our emotions. And then maybe we're going back to a time when we had a similar felt sensation. And we're making the acquaintance of the our younger self, that part of us and then working with that younger self that maybe doesn't realize that I'm now 55 is still thinks I'm eight. And that's a very non intrusive way to work with and heal trauma. So those are great approaches that don't require a lot of nervous system activation necessarily.
Thank you, Elaine. So if you have any other questions about trauma and memory loss or gaps in your memory, maybe you don't have full memory loss, but you're just loot you know you've got some gaps along your childhood or even your adulthood. Shoot us an email at Hello at mending trauma. And we would love to answer any future questions in other podcast episodes. But we thank you for listening today. And we are excited to be with you each week. And if again, if you need anything or have any ideas for episodes, we'd love to hear from you. Thanks so much for being with us today. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The mending trauma podcast. Lena and I are really grateful that you spend time with us each week we know you have a choice and that time is currency. We would love if you would share this episode on social media and tag us so we can reshare if you feel so inclined, go and give us a five star review wherever you listen to pod so that we can get the word out and help more people. We know that we are all working hard on our mental health and we wish you great success this week in implementing these new skills we'll check in next week.
