🦆💨 Funky Sour Strains, New Breeding Work, and How to Find a Hasher, with Terp Wizard

    9:46AM Jan 29, 2025

    Speakers:

    Jordan River

    Keywords:

    breeding projects

    hash tutorial

    Taste the Soil

    sour diesel

    pollination

    ducks and chickens

    compost diversity

    event planning

    rosin production

    wash testing

    flower rosin

    blending rosins

    seed library

    future breeding

    compost genetics

    Greetings, cultivators from around the world. Jordan River here back with more. Grow cast. Stay tuned till the end for the plot twist. Today we have Terp wizard back on the show, and it's a great one. He's here to talk about his breeding projects. He's here to talk about washing, wash, testing, all sorts of events that are coming up. Terp wizard is the man, and this episode is a really great breeder feature, and also kind of a hash tutorial as well, in a way. So before we get into it with Terp wizard, shout out to AC infinity, partners of grow cast. We've been with these guys for so long. They make the best grow tents in the Game, Best inline fans in the game, and they'll sell you a grow kit with everything you need to get started growing today. Acinity.com use code grow cast one five. That's growcast One five for the biggest discounts, depends on what you buy, what you get, but grow cast has got you covered with savings. Acinity.com grab a Grow Tent kit, three by threes, the four by fours, five by fives, ready to go. They got everything you need, from pots and scissors and ratchets to lights, fans, oscillators, inline fans, even things like eye protection and sleeves. Find it at AC infinity.com. Support them. You support our show and you use grow cast one, five and again. Thank you. To AC infinity. We've been partners with them for years, way back when they only sold the cloud lines. And we love that they're taking over the Grow game, AC infinity.com, code, grow, cast, one, five. Alright, let's get into it with Terp wizard. Thank you for listening. Enjoy the show. Hello podcast listeners. You are now listening to grow cast, I'm your host, Jordan River, and I want to thank you for tuning in again today before we get started, as always, I urge you to spread the show. Tell someone about growcast, turn someone on to growing our mission is to overgrow this nation and the world, and you help with that. Every time you spread growcast, make sure to check us out. Growcast podcast.com/action, there. You'll find all the action, the seeds, the classes, the membership. See it all there today. I'm very excited to have my friend back on the line, hashing Master. I'm going to say a bunch of nice things about him. He'll probably get humble and self conscious. He is one of the best rosin producers I know. He is a hugelkultur specialist, dragonfly Earth medicine, Certified Grower. So much more. Terp wizard is back on the line. What's up? Terp wizard, Hey,

    Jordan, thanks for having me back. Man, appreciate you wanting me to come back on. Talk some shit with you, of course.

    Man, we love your work, bro. You kill it out there. Your breeding work, your rosin production. People love it. People have been loving your other episodes. If you're just listening to this, go back and check out the previous episodes with Terp wizard, Terp, what have you been up to? Man, what have you been working on since we last spoke? And talk to me about this event that you have coming up.

    Yeah, so I think since the last time we spoke, put together a hoop house. My dad came out for a couple weekends, and we put together a 14 foot wide by 60 foot long greenhouse, and got some ducks, had some of our own chickens, and then I've been curating a couple events now. We got one in the books and one on the way. The event is called Taste the soil. It is july 29 and starts at 3:33pm and goes till eight. And folks are encouraged to stick around after, to hang out at the bonfire and listen to some bluegrass that usually gets played at Gracie property. We're hosting it at third Coast herbal collective, as well as yellow moon yurts property, Gracie has been nice enough to let us come out there and host an event and curate some of our friends who also grow in soil and do beautiful work, from gardening to hash making to growing livestock. So we are putting together an event that's focused on my three backgrounds, hash, food and soil. So that was kind of the idea of bringing together those communities, connecting people to farmers directly, and then, as well as giving back to the community through the income we generate from the event. So last time, all the money we pulled in for parking was giving and it was a free vending event as well as to attend, and then all the money went to a local dog shelter. And this one where we're doing something similar, where the attendance and vending will go to Gracie to help her improve her farm as and then the parking will go to another local cause in her area.

    I love that, man. That's so fucking cool. It's just clear how passionate you are about the plant and how passionate you are about getting. Back, and I'll also say, I'm a grower, right? I just have a small garden. I got an outdoor garden, got an indoor garden. A lot of people that do what I do aspire to do what you do. I think I said this on the last episode, but it's just so cool when you talk about regenerating the soil, growing your plants, and then also, like the homesteading aspect, the livestock aspect, raising these ducks and chickens, it's like you're really doing it, man. You're not just talking the talk. You're walking the walk. I'm super excited about that event. I wish I could make it. We're out west for Pesta Palooza, but I'm gonna be at the next one. Man, I promise I'm gonna be at the next one. So make sure to show out Midwest chapter. Hit up, taste the soil. That's July 29 I want to see you guys out there. I want to see those pictures. But tell me about the ducks. TURP wizard, I gotta, I gotta know about this. What's going on with the with the fowl? How is it? What are you? Are you doing eggs and all that good stuff, like, how is it raising ducks? Yeah,

    so we did it mainly we got birds mainly for manure. We wanted to diversify our compost pile and then diversify the nutrients going to our plants. And, you know, part of the extra that comes with that is the egg. So we were getting a bunch of chicken eggs, and unfortunately, we had a chicken massacre happen, and we kept all the eggs that were fertilized from that rooster and hatched them. So even though they're gone, we still have the offspring from them, and then the ducks kind of happened. Recently, my partner had one of the folks that she works with reach out to her. He's like, hey, we have this wild duck that looks to be abandoned, and they're they're mowing at our apartment complex or wherever they're living. And if you'd like it, you could have this duck. And then she starts looking at that and find that we need to get them friends. So we went to Tractor Supply the next few days and bought runner ducks. Now, we have five decks, and are working on building a duck home structure for them in our chicken run this weekend. So it's been, it's been a process, I guess, like, you can water your garden directly with the duck water, and then I'm excited to use the bedding for the compost, and see different stuff that brings to all our gardens?

    Well, I mean, that's what a lot of people preach when, when you get into your side of of the industry, right, which is diversity, like diversity in biology, diversity and manure, right? And the duck is definitely, like, it's a versatile beast. You know, you know, you get you're getting the eggs. You're getting the eggshells. I hadn't thought about the duck water, probably some really specific aquatic microbes that come along with watering in that duck water. So I love what you're doing. Man, that's fucking incredible. I'm really stoked about that. I hope I can come up and see the farm one day. That would be absolutely an honor.

    I think we can arrange it. It sounds like you might be out here soon enough. And I think going back to talking to taste of soil for a second, this will probably be our last one for the year. I just don't have the time or energy as it gets later in the year to put together another one. But we we're hopefully doing a couple more next year, if, uh, Gracie will have us again.

    That's amazing. Make sure to make it out to that guys, it's so hard to throw these events, TURP wizard, and it's so rewarding. It's just a lot of coordination, it's a lot of logistics. I understand when you say, you know, I'm not doing one for the rest of the year, and I hope that next year I can make it out there, because it sounds like a really awesome event. I just I can't miss out on all that natural farming talk and the rosin that's going to be shared. I'm a little bit green, I'm a little bit jealous, but I will make it to the next

    one. Yeah, we're thinking about ways to evolve it next year and maybe have a space for talks. Gracie has got a yurt out there, and that is kind of a it's close to where the people are setting up their boots, and is a more of a quiet space. It would be great for those type of talks, and not too distant off the property. It's kind of all in a central location. I'm

    sure it's going to be so fun, dude, I'm stoked. Well, listen, man, what have you been up to on the production side? Are you focusing on breeding? Have you been making hash? I've got some rosin questions that I would love to run by you, but I also want to talk about breeding. So what have you been working on

    lately? Yeah, so in previous years, I've kind of just selected my male, had the females I liked, around and hit them and then released them pretty, pretty quick. Was open with folks like, you know, we didn't really test these out yet. We're working through them, you know, a little bit quicker than than you guys. We the second, third drive before I will get them all packaged up. I'll because then get to them first,

    man, that's people are hitting, yeah, like, I don't, you just bred those and you, you're telling me that I'm gonna have to wait for you to grow these things and fly them out and so just send them to me. Now, that's what people Well,

    true. Yeah, this this time, we are going to hold them back a little bit to make sure they're exactly what we're looking for. Because I'm I have more females out there than I ever have before, and I have a sour diesel bx, 3f four from top dog that I selected, and we're hitting all of my favorite hash plants and a couple friends hash plants with that pollen. So we have probably, I think, 18, and if I get the other plants, I want out close to 20 of stuff from our garden. And then we have three plants from other people's gardens, like Mount walkie organotron and new Coast nectar, they all gave me cuts that they liked, that they figured be a fun hit with the sour. So I'm excited to release those maybe well as I work through them, I'll release them if I like them, just so I have like, I'm gonna pop a small population to replicate someone who doesn't have a huge space to grow in, wash them. Kind of take notes as how they clone, how they grow in, veg, how they flower, the amount of like fresh, frozen they do. And if it's what I was hoping for, will release it. If not, maybe they'll be going out as freebies or something like that.

    That is so cool, because I know people are going to be clamoring for your genetics, but clearly you have something in mind where you want them all to perform a certain way. So that's that's really cool, that you're thinking about the the washing capabilities and and all of that. Now let me ask you this, though, what made you decide to go with a sour? I think sour is wildly underrepresented when it comes to our current flavor lexicon. What made you choose sour? We

    sifted through about a pack and a half of those, and we're really liking the stuff we found. And I didn't have a reference point for sour because of the area I grew up in, it just wasn't something that was around. So for me, it's something new. And we got a lot of great feedback on the two selections we kept, which will also be making F, B, X, 3f, fives of those. So I won't be releasing any of those, though, those would be like freebies or friends and family type things, just because JJ, top dog has put in so much work, I don't feel right selling it like if I was to replicate what he did getting in that part, it would take me seven summers to get to that point. Even indoors, that would be years and years of work. So I forgot where we were going, yeah,

    just the sours. Oh, the flavor and why you chose that. It was new to you. Because I agree. I am from the Midwest, and we didn't get here's two things I never got growing up. Terp wizard, you tell me if it was different in Michigan, I never really got that roadkill, skunk. Roadkill skunk that everybody is like reminiscing about. We didn't really get that ever where I'm from. And then the New York Sour Diesel came through, like once, like that was the only time I tasted anything sour. I don't know if that was the same in Michigan.

    So I, I grew up in Northwest Chicago, so not too far, just other side of the lake. But, yeah, I don't remember getting much, if any, sour, if there was, it didn't cross our paths. And then I don't remember getting cush. And I think maybe we got skunk one time, because I have a reference point for that, but I don't, I don't know if it was a rare occurrence. I think maybe my uncles got it or something. They were smokers for a long time and still are. So

    you grew up right next to where I grew up, bro, the northwest suburbs, yeah,

    uh, Crystal Lake, to be specific. Oh, wow, that's,

    yeah, that's really close to where I grew up. And then when I got good weed in high school, which I got a lot of bad weed growing up, when I got good weed growing up, it was usually California cat piss. I don't know what good weed was, where you with the neighborhood you were, but that that was good weed to me, and I didn't know what it was, but looking back now, that ammoniated smell, right? That, like ammonia piss smell, I think that was California campus.

    But what about you? I'm not I'm not sure we weren't really into the strains, or, like, maybe the guys above me, who I was getting it from. Knew what they were, but yeah, I'd say the first few people, maybe the first time or two, it wasn't that great. And then I got connected with someone's older brother, and he was getting the good stuff. So we, we had a lot of good stuff floating in our area in high school. And then once I lost connection with him, it was kind of back to on the hunt again. And then a year later, I moved out to Colorado so i i could find it myself at shops or, uh, smaller growers or whatnot. The flood gates were opened. Yeah, exactly,

    yep. It's true. It's true. Well, God Damn man, we could reminisce all day, but I'm excited about that pollination. That sounds really cool. And you got to keep us up to date as you work through these one at a time. I'm sure people are going to be up your butt about these limited strains and unreleased strains. So really good stuff. I like the sour pollination have you? You haven't had a chance to press any of those yet. You're still getting into the testing phase. So

    we make seeds outside or I. I like saying we, because it's usually just, it's more than one person helping, but I guess I'm the mastermind behind this, or however you want to put that, you're

    the wizard behind the curtain. They say, not, I guess, behind the curtain, but, you know, got an interview of sometimes

    I don't even know if the females are in flower yet. If they are, it's, it's, it'd be one or two of them just super early, the male hasn't even opened up for pollen. I'm starting to see sex pollen, sex develop. So my guess is at the latest, end of September, is when we'll be pulling down seeds. And I usually like to let them dry for about two months before I start shopping them, just to make sure that there's no extra moisture, and I get pretty busy with all the extra processing, so I get to them as I can, and spend some time on the weekend or time here or there, trying to get all the seeds down and sift it out, like all the extra plant material, the immature seeds. Yeah, it's a little bit of a process. But, you know, mid 2024, I think, is when I probably releasing the first round of stuff I got, I'm getting to, and there's, there's been a discussion with some of the people who I have quantive, maybe releasing, like, some of the packs early, at a very small amount. But I we haven't fully decided on that one. I think we're gonna wait it out and get it out after testing. We'll

    see after this episode. I'm sure a bunch of people are gonna love what you're doing. Man, that's cool. And I like the wash test. I actually would like to kind of jump around a little bit. And I'd like to ask you about this wash testing, right? This idea that, like, you can get a plant that you're into flower, you haven't even harvested yet, and you can take off a bud and assess it in a few different ways and apply a few different methods to see if there's a good indicator if it's going to make a yield a lot of hash or not. Can you talk about, like, what you're looking for, and then, more specifically, when you go to test something that hasn't been harvested yet? Been

    harvested yet. Yeah, I guess we could start off with the, not like the easiest method, all the way to the maybe most intricate. And this is this could all everything that I'm talking about, test washing wise, could happen before the plant is fully harvested. So if you have a drying space and find that this isn't meeting the criteria you're looking for, that you could use that flower or dry the flower compared to freezing it. So where I would start is I like to grab some of the the lowers around, maybe like week five or six, once they're more developed and you can get some better idea of the aroma coming off the plant, or, like, what you're smelling. And so I'll grab one the smaller buds, not the tops, because, you know they're those are the pretty ones you want to keep nice and, like, squeeze it and then put my fingers together, and then open it to see the quality of the resin on my fingers. And most of the time, if it's gonna lean towards something I'd want to wash, I'll see trichome heads or stringers. Like, you'll physically see the heads like, make these almost like a spider web looking thing, or a stringer is what other people have been calling them, a little

    drool string as you separate. That's gonna hang, yeah, your fingers. Okay, so those are two different attributes that I've observed. I hate to interrupt, but I would, I would like to get specific on this. Those are two attributes that I've seen in cultivars. Would you describe that as the first one? You say trichomes on your fingers? Are you talking about like the grainy, Sandy type trichomes, right?

    Yeah, so more than not, the the sandy trichomes will wash the best. It's not always. And then the ones that are stringers can kind of lean towards being maybe a more greasy and sometimes a little bit middle range or lower wash ability, but still, still doable. This isn't always this isn't a for sure thing, but this is, you know, what I've seen like this, the super like Sandy feeling Stuff You Like, instead of doing the pinch test, you kind of rub it in your fingers, and it feels like, almost like a grip tape for sand. Then those are probably going to wash higher where, like the stringers could be more of like, a greasy Ness. And then the ones that don't wash at all, you see, like no heads are almost like a lotion. And those heads, if they're not even withstanding the pressure of your fingers, they're not gonna stand up to being in the water and being jostled around.

    I've had strains like that, so that's what I've described as, like, oily Right? Like, they just pop in your fingers, and those, those oftentimes make great flower consumption strains. But you're right, they turn into like a liquid almost, versus the tacky stuff, the stringy stuff being kind of in the middle, and then the super Sandy and hardy trichome heads being the best that'll. Makes perfect sense, because, like you're saying, you're about to put them through a really rough process. So if they're Hardy and they're separated and they're they're still intact, that's like the main goal. So so please continue,

    yeah. So from there, you know that will kind of get you an idea and narrow down which ones you might want to do a jar test on. And then there's like two versions of the jar test. Essentially, there's, like, a more basic one that pretty much anyone can do at home that has, like a jar that has a lid that you can seal on, and I will take maybe, like one of those lower branches and cut off all the nugs off it, removing the fan leaves and, like, separating it at the stem, and if maybe it's a bigger bud, like, kind of breaking it down into those little or formations. You can see them at the on the stem, like how the bud will separate naturally. And then once you have that broken down, you put it in that jar, and I'll freeze it overnight. Come back the next morning, put cold water and an ice cube or two in there, depending on how much you know it could put a couple, I don't know the size of your ice cubes or how much flour you put in there. I usually would only do like, I don't know, 20 grams at max for this jar test that I'm describing right now and then. So put the water in the ice cube, let it sit for 20 minutes and let it soak. And then you're gonna seal it with the top and then, like, shake the shit out of it for a couple minutes, and then let everything settle and come back maybe, like, 1015, minutes later, you can go longer, that's fine. And then tilt the jar back and forth and observe how many heads are on the bottom, how dense that is. And if you can really control some of the amounts and the time, and do this over a couple plants or a longer amount of time, you can get an idea of maybe which ones are going to wash better or not. And then, if you really want to get into percentages, mind, you should still try to keep a standardization of weight and time of vegetation. You can get this tool called the resin dial, and it is essentially mini setup of wash bags. It's this tube with multiple screens in it that mimic the same setup as most bag companies, and then you can pour the water through after that wash test and see where it lies. You'll have your fresh, frozen weight. You can dry the heads and then get a rough percentage of what's there. Also you if you have, like, once it's dry, you can get an idea of how it tastes, the meltability. You could, I don't know if you could potentially press some of those amounts. It's pretty small, but you could do that too, and try the rosin. All those could happen before you harvest the plant.

    Man, that is really cool. Do you do that every time? Basically,

    you know, I was doing jar tests at the beginning, and then we took down the flower tent, and just the everything goes in the freezer. So I just, I just take the risk and go for it, and I get, I'll cut the plants and but I don't do the jar test anymore. I think next year we're gonna set up another greenhouse, maybe two, and then run seeds in that one, and then test those ones, and probably dry some of the flour from those that are all from seed, and figure out which ones are washed better, or potentially, just wash them all together and do, like, a huge mixed fino run of some strains, I don't know, we haven't, haven't gotten there yet that

    I would love that. But yeah, that makes sense. If you have that, like demand, and you got a brand, like the turquoise or rosin stuff, but I liked what you said earlier, where, like, if you're a home grower and you have a couple different strains, and you're like, Okay, well, I want to keep some of these in flour, a test like this would would probably be super, super useful for that. But God damn, you just mentioned something. My add brain is all over the place. I think we may have talked about this before. I've certainly brought this up on the podcast. What do you think about blends? Because I have talked about this before, where, back in the day, anything that's blended was looked down upon, like, Oh, you didn't have enough material to like make one of something, right? So you had to mix stuff together. And I always thought, you know, we only respect when we cross two strains together to make a cross, but we don't respect the blend. And I said, that's going to change. What do we see now? I'm starting to see in dispensaries, there will be like, two grams of rosin put into the same container, like a more liquidy one inside the center of another one you just mentioned, like a full spectrum mix of all these different strains. Do you feel like blends have come around? Do you feel like they're going to increase in popularity? What do you think about just blending different rosins or flowers.

    Yeah, I think it's more popular these days, if you kind of look at like wine culture, right? They do blends there too, and that can be some really nice wine if you're into that. But, you know, there's always folks who want to try the thing as is and get nice. Dia I think for me at the at the first time, I'll wash a plant, I will do it all separately. And then as we move forward, and let's say, Well, this, this happened recently. So we have this plant Le Mans that we produce a lot of. And, you know, lemon Terps aren't necessarily everyone's favorite. And that plant does a lot of fresh, frozen and washes really well. So when we pull that one out of that mix, we have a lot of it. So this last time, we had a lot of this blueberry watermelon mound bread and a lot of lemons. So I washed it together and made a blueberry lemonade. And people were really receptive to that.

    You know, I'm talking about, this sounds delicious, yeah,

    no, it was. It was great. The Le Mans, too, isn't like a loud candy, like citrus Terp. It's more of like a, or at least ours is more of like a delicate kind of, like lemon ice type of thing. Like, it's not, it's not super loud. So when we combined it with like this loud blueberry watermelon melon bread, it blended really nicely. And you got the the strong blueberry melon on the front, and then in the back you got some nice kind of light summer lemonade type of thing. And you know, I want to shout out to Kush Kirk and Amanda Reed at Garden and grease. They made both those strains, or I got seeds of those from both them and mix them together. So shout out to the other dem farmers doing some good work out there.

    Love it, dude. I gotta get in with your crowd, man. I've talked to, I mean, Steve has told me about this, this dem crew. You guys are all doing the cool shit. I gotta come interview the rest of the crew, man, because I love what you're doing. That blend sounds absolutely amazing, and you're right, if you catch like, two amazing flavor profiles that you know would be good together, you can integrate them at any stage. And I think at the washing stage is one of the best ones, one of the best ways you can do it. That's very exciting, man.

    We also do so when we're jarring stuff up and it gets to, like, stuff less than a gram that we can't put in a jar, we'll wait, like, say that that week we have four different varieties of certain spectrum, and there's not enough in all those to make a full gram. We'll then blend all those together and kind of make our odds and ends blends that are like one offs, that aren't replicable, and they'll only be a couple grams of those. And people have been super receptive to that as well. So post wash, post press, post cure, blending, people are seeming to like out here as well.

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    here's a question for you. This has been coming up in my Discord a lot. Do you recommend people press their own flower, like taking just straight flower and pressing it versus separated heads? Do you think it's worth it? Do you think that the yields aren't there? What do you think about pressing straight

    flower? Well, I started with pressing flour. I got a press before I got a wash set up. I want to say maybe that was like 2015 something like that 16. I'm not quite sure that the years have kind of blended together this point, but it was before I moved to Michigan. Was out in Colorado. I got the sash watch. I think v1 or v2 is one of the early models. They only had a heating mechanism in one. You had hook it up this crazy air compressor. And it was a pneumatic setup where you just, like, pushed it down, and it was okay. It was good. I just hadn't gotten there yet. And I think for the home grower who maybe doesn't have the money to do a wash setup, you know, wash bags aren't that expensive. As you start building out a cold room and getting freeze dryers and moving down that it can get it. Like, it adds up really quick. It's 1000s of dollars, if not, you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars, if you really want to get crazy with your setup and get, like, a nice, big washer and a couple presses to keep up, a couple freeze dryers, building out of space, retrofitting a space. So I would say, you know, it's good to maybe have a starting point. I don't know if there's a lot of market demand outside of you know, doing it for yourself for flower rosin, as far as yields been so long, I gotta imagine, though, if I'm remembering correctly, the yields, like what you're putting in versus what you're getting out, isn't as great as the heads, because there's going to be a lot of extra weight between the flower and the stems that aren't really going to produce anything. And, you know, it's generally not as great as a taste. I would say, almost always, there might be a rare circumstance where the flower rosin is better, but I'm doubting it. But yeah, once you isolate the flower out and get just the essence, you know, the heads and press that you're going to get a higher return. I think it's generally about of a higher quality, all things considered. And then you're you could potentially start getting it out to people where, I just don't know if there's quite demand for flower rosin in a lot of markets, but if you're just a home grower. Just Just do it. If it's for you, why not? What do you got to lose? You're going to learn something that's

    a great take and, and I think you're absolutely on point. It's one of those things where, like, don't let the barrier to entry of, you know, fresh, frozen, perfect hash rosin, stop you from squishing right, squish however you can, and then, and then, if you want to, you know, take it to the next level and really dial it in, then you can move towards that goal. But I really like that as, like, starting with pressing flower, because I think people understand that more, and it's a little less intimidating. But you're also being honest and saying, like, Well, yeah, of course, just pressing the heads is, is, like, optimal. That's how you, like, you said, the essence of the plant, those trichome heads, those magical factories, those magical dragon balls that you can knock off and press so it comes out darker too, does it not the flower rosin doesn't it usually come out much darker. Or am I wrong about that?

    Yeah, because most people are harvesting flower when the heads are at an amber state. Now that you've dried the flower, the heads are going to be more Amber. So you're having Amber heads compared to usually a cloudy head, or very few amount of amber heads with a fresh frozen. And yeah, the taste will reflect it being cured with a fresh frozen, you're getting it pretty close to what you're experiencing on the live plant.

    Okay, so I want to talk about this really quickly, because last time on our show, you spoke about this harvest time, right? You spoke about how people shop with their eyes a lot of the time, and when you cut early, you get that color that that a lot of consumers like you also said how you can get a different experience if you let it run longer and then fresh freeze it, turn it into to rosin, do your whole magical process? Have

    you taken a strain and a B tested

    like an early harvest versus a late harvest? Did Have you noticed an actual, palpable difference between the same cultivar that was harvested at different times and washed.

    So only, I mean, I've got to wash some people's outdoors, where they clearly can't pull everything in their field at once. It's hard to say I don't have anything like concrete, because it'll probably be within a few days. But indoor, I have a perpetual flower room. So I harvest at the same day every time, just looking for things that are quick, flowering wash well and can be harvested in like an eight week turnaround. And then outdoors, I'm going to push some of those strains later, like the sour we found two varieties that are harvestable in the mid 50s, where outdoors I would like to push them. What I perceive is maybe, like 70 days. It's hard to tell exactly when they flip, but I'm gonna try to, you know, keep an eye on it and take notes and figure out, like, okay, cool. Looks like, this is like, maybe the first week of flower, and then kind of based off that, or like, the guy, this is close to week three, and then kind of go from there and see. Mind you, it's not like apples to apples, because you're growing outdoors, and what I'm used to is indoors. But it will be interesting to see if some of the nuances change going later with the sour, because, like, we have this very, you know, sour dominant, we're not getting much gas on one of them. And I'd like to see if, once you get later, if that balances out, or one becomes like the leading profile, or how those things change as you get later in the flower. But I don't have the data or the stuff from my own land quite yet to talk on that, but I gotta imagine it. It definitely affects it as you go to. Later, things will develop and kind of move around and change a little bit because

    it's interesting, because I've had strains where I've done partial harvests, and sometimes it's not as recognizable of a difference. But what you just said is certainly something that a lot of growers can empathize with and relate to, which is a strain will smell different in week six and a half than in week nine and a half. You know, it'll change over flower, and sometimes it'll smell very different in those early weeks. But, man, I've had some make a hard left turn right before flower, where the profile completely evolves and changes. What an amazing gift of nature to wait until like weeks week seven, to show me that you have a whole nother note that you were, like, waiting, you know what I mean? Have you ever experienced that?

    Yeah, I think it's, it's pretty wild. Like, even a couple of days, like indoors, like when you are smelling something like, oh shit. Like, I'm really getting a tropical smell here. And then later on, like, maybe when you harvest, like, something else will come out and become more present or dominant.

    Yeah, absolutely. So that's going to change everything around in there. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Can we talk about specific strengths, either ones that you've crossed or ones that you've worked with from other people that you respect? What are the ones that you made into rosin you just remember being amazing to wash and squish that you'd recommend to anybody out there?

    Well, out of other people's garden. The one that first comes to mind is the Bicket. I think a lot of people have now tried that. Nick got some clones of it out, and I know it's out in Oklahoma, where you're at. Oh yeah, it's in a couple other states too. And that one's really a joy to work with. I grew up for a little bit, and then made a cross with it, and wash as well. Grows well. You know, it pretty much checks all boxes, as far as I'm concerned, for a washer and from our garden, I'm gonna think of something that, uh, is from someone else that does good, that likes checking all the boxes. I mean, I'm in love with the sour right now, so I gotta say top dog. Not everything from that seed sift was a great washer potential, but the two that we found out of the first 12 pack was, was great. I really love the smells on that. Let's see I'm gonna buy you some

    time you keep thinking while I sing your praises for a second, because you mentioned the big kid OG, which you took and crossed with the grape Cream Cake f2 and turned into duck confit. And I was fortunate enough to receive a couple of packs of that. Thank you so much for sending those down. And I gave half of my pack of duck con fee to Chrome six. Shout Out okie Chronicles and okey Stoney from Chrome six, amazing, vertically integrated rosin company out here in out there in Oklahoma, I'm recording remotely, woman owned, vertically integrated, single source, all that good stuff. TURP wizard, they took that duck confit and turned it into some of the most unique, delicious and complex rosin that I've ever had. Man, I just gotta sing your praises. It's one of my top rosin experiences ever. It might be number one. The duck confit flower came out so nasty, bro. This stuff smells gnarly. It smells like a swamp. It smells like a duck farted into a swamp and swam off and wafted it into your face. It is so fucking nasty. And then when they washed it, it still smells like duck farts, but it has that grape Cream Cake came through so nicely. It's way more palatable in the rosin form. And the longer you smelled it, the sweeter it got. It transitioned from that sulfuric algae, duck fart swamp into just a nice, palatable, sweet cake. So really well done on the duck confit. Shout out to Chrome six, and you hit it out of the park with that cross,

    my friend. Well, that's I'm happy to hear that I got the I got to smell and try some of the duck country from a grower on the metric side. You threw a couple of them and they put them all together, and it was so wild. It had some smells and stuff that I never had a reference point on rosin. It was like, I was, I remember smelling like sandalwood and like weird, like almost essential oil, like myrrh type of stuff. It was really out of my reference point. I was like, What is this? This smells so crazy. Mind you, it was like, probably, I think it might have been like 20 or something plants, or maybe more. Could have been a little less, I'm not totally sure, but it was a large wash of multiple females, so you got some. From all over the place, and it was interesting how those all played together. Certainly,

    I got to try two phenotypes of the flower, and then the one that they chose in Washington just really well done. Man, I absolutely had to say. And they said, I'm pretty sure they said it was a pretty great yielder as well. Don't misquote me on that, but they were just floored by the quality of the rosin, and so was I absolutely floored. Well,

    that's awesome. I have to shoot Nick a text after this and let him know about that and see if he still has any seeds around. And I got to dig in and see if I got a couple vials left, and maybe get those up to him to see. Last time

    I was freaking about out about the big hit that you gave me, man, so what a hard strain to take and try and improve upon, man, and you really added something complex to it. Those are two of my favorite rosin experiences, enough blow and smoke but, but those are, those are two I'll always remember is your big O, G and your and chrome six is duck comfy. Well,

    thanks, man. I appreciate you sharing that. It's cool to hear that, uh, that translated so well, and they found something that they liked, and you ultimately enjoyed Absolutely,

    man, absolutely. So do you have any eyes to the future beyond sour, or are you focused on this pollination specifically? Are you already cooking up what's next?

    Well, hold on to that question for a second. I thought of some more. Yes. I was

    giving you time to think, yes. Okay, yeah, time's up.

    So I think a lot of people growing for washers and hash specifically, have been running stuff from bloom seed CO or hairy palms. And we got a free V pack of the honey banana. Time, sure, banger, there's only four seeds. And we found a killer selection out of that. It got named, I think, mad honey. But when we got it, there wasn't a name yet. So we call honey Shabana. And yeah, it throws on a bunch of fresh frozen washes, high threes, low fours, if we really nail it. People have been enjoying it. It has a kind of like aspects of maybe, like some floralist that would be referenced to the honey, and then, like some delicate notes of banana. It's not a crazy, loud profile, but people have been enjoying it. And then another guy whose stuff I've been liking is Terp Cobain. He does a lot of these purple punch crosses, specifically the Z 21 I loved. They grew great, wash great. And then if, from our year recently, I have enjoyed hunting through the melon doe, which is a pie dough, I think s1 times the blueberry watermelon mountain bread that we worked with last year, it's been giving us some really complex, hard to nail down profiles, beautiful flowers, kind of in the medium range, sometimes high, fresh, frozen and then mid level washers, but very loud in the jar, like stuff of like, almost melon to tropical fruit, somewhat on the doughy side. And then we recently Cobain two, that melon one. No, that's when we made, oh, that's yours. You said, Oh, you said that. I'm sorry. No, you're good, but, yeah, it's been fun to find keepers from from ARD here, and I'm I'm really excited to see what the sour brings to some of these fun plants that we found over the last year of hunting and and then the transition to your most recent question, as far as what we're looking to next, I have been thinking about the long term goal of making seeds for us and trying to not get caught up with getting stuck with a male too long, and then having everything be hit to our the thing we're known for. I kind of want to have these projects that are like, Oh, we do this one year, and then at some point, you know, if you want to think about building a house or some type of building, you start with your foundation and then work up. So my ideas maybe, for like, the first, I don't know, five years, we'll work with different seed maker, breeders, genetics. And then eventually, as we get higher up past the foundation, we'll just start pulling stuff from the lines that we started and be like, okay, cool. We want to, like, take what we liked from the creme de grapaya and hit it with the Sour Diesel times double. Oh, seven up, and see what these make. And then be like, All right, cool. We love that. Let's pull that for our next male and just kind of work like that, instead of like trying to limit the gene pool to bunch of whatever hybrids and just kind of breeding into itself, we kind of want to go wide and then narrow down in the future maybe, or pull things out and kind of have this wide. Wide array of colors, or a large palette. To pull from, a lot

    of the breeders that I really like working with, they have stuff, you know, some of these older school breeders, they have stuff that they've hung on to for a long time, this large library that they work through. It's almost like you're building the library. That's that's what it feels like there. I love that you have a five year type plan. A lot of people, including myself, can fall victim to, like, what's the next project? What's the next pollination? You know what I mean? And you're thinking four or five plus years down the line, that's that's really cool and and clearly your values driven, like you have, you have something in mind that you want to create. So I love to hear all this man I love, I love the teasers. I think

    too. Like going into these projects, you need to have an idea of what you're looking for. You can kind of just throw shit at the wall and maybe get something out. But if you have an idea and standards you want to hit, ultimately, that makes your project, in the long run, be better. And then, you know, you can kind of have someone know what to expect based off the parent lineage. Or, you know, you hunting up the females and then finding a male that's reminiscent of those traits that you saw in the female to get an idea of, like, oh, he might bring this. Or, you know, testing the offspring like, oh, shit, you did bring that. You didn't bring that. You know, maybe I want to release these as act two later on, because it didn't quite hit the mark, or go back and remake it all together, or something. That's

    right. And I also love what you said about not getting stuck on one male. I think that, and listen, everybody has different goals when they're breeding, right? So like, God if you're happy. But I think that some breeders do pigeonhole themselves because they fall in love with a male plant that, like, you know, that's, that's what they're stuck on their whole

    career. Yeah, it can kind of put you in a spot, right? Because, if that's, if that's the hot shit, now, how long do you have before you get to a point where you're crossing the stuff that people don't want, or, you know, your your first few drops might sell out, but then down the line, you're, you're struggling even sell stuff, because everyone has that hybrid of that thing. And, you know, you hit it to all the all the flavors of the week you could find. It's like, I don't know. It's just because everyone has a different approach. Everyone

    has the cross at that point, right? And again, I totally agree. I'm not knocking anyone, but that's something that I have noticed with a lot of breeders, is they fall in love with a male and then I don't get as much diversity from somebody who I'm trying to support. But at the end of the day, it's about like what the breeder wants to do and their goals, so I do respect that. But for instance, with Terp wizard, I'm excited to see multiple male crosses coming out in the future, you know, in the over the next years. So, very cool. Man, we got to get up there. We got to check it out. I'm very, very excited about that. And,

    oh shoot, go ahead. I just, I just remembered something too. So we do have another breeding project going on this year as well. And I kind of just spaced it till right now.

    All right, going double length episode. We're gonna do everything we just did. We were talking about this new pollination, okay, it's much smaller. It's a

    secret project.

    So we have, I got an idea from Green source genetics, where they're staking. They're taking stuff from their compost pile in finding volunteers that are super vigorous, that they have no idea what they are, because it's just a bunch of stuff left over that got harvest. So I I wanted to make a creme de grapaya f2 which is papaya times grape cream cake. So we have a male that has an interesting trait of creating, instead of two branches per section, it creates three that are all even that seems to be a trait brought on, I believe, from the male. So the grape cream cake, and then we have a papaya leaning female, and then a grape, more grape with some papaya notes. We need females for making two different versions of the f2 and then, as well as hitting another female from melt walkie with the creme de grapaya. So we do have two breeding projects going on at the same time. And then all those volunteers to see if, if any of those, those, the volunteers are probably freebies, kind of like, uh, just for fun. Like, hey, girlies out. They're probably pretty vigorous and create some interesting things. But I don't know what exactly they'll bring out, because I have no idea what they are.

    Well, it's got to be the most like, biologically enriched seed of the batch, right? Like, if it's growing out of compost, it's got to be like bacteria and fungi and all the good stuff we want. Like, that's very interesting compost, like compost, Rando genetic like that. They're ripping

    too. They're like, they we never water them. We had a almost like a drought here in Michigan. And they're like, happy every single day. They're tapped into the comp. Post. And, you know, there's something from probably our indoor which, there's a good chance it's gonna wash well, but we'll have to see from the Prodigy exactly what it brings. But, yeah, I'm looking at it right now, and I'm stoked to see I'm glad I remember that. I was like,

    Oh my goodness. Okay, so I'm excited for that line, too. You got the compost line? Yeah, there's got to be some vigorous plants. Man, I want to look into that. I want to look into that. I just remembered something from earlier as well. I wanted to stop and shout out for a second. You mentioned working with the bloom seed co crosses, yeah, and that's where our peach quake got its start. Was it was a peach pie cross. And there's a few different peach pies out there. It was bloom seed cos peach pie. And it's cool to hear you shout them out because your work washes so well and their work washes so well that, I don't know you two collaborating. That's pretty cool.

    Yeah, you know, they seem to be the go to company to buy seeds for washers at the moment. My you know, only issue with running their gear right now is that everyone's running it. So for me to have something super like a menu that has diverse stuff, I kind of like going towards smaller guys at the moment, or finding those weird one off projects like he has, or they have this paid membership program where you can get access to stuff that they haven't released, and I have a buddy who's on it, so we're trying to acquire some of those seeds that are a little bit harder to find, that might be more difficult to find a washer in, but at least not everyone and their mother has that cut or that pack of seeds, because it's It's not fun when you go to on these caregiver events or whatever, and everyone has x cut. Yeah,

    that's true. I totally agree with that, but you're right. That's like, Bloom seed CO is like the go to right now. Seems like their gear is really, really reliable. A lot of my members wash bloom seed CO's gear, and all of the peach pie crosses dump. I don't know what that guy is doing over there. Mr. Palms, but very cool stuff. So even if, even if other people do have a derp wizard, I also want yours, man. I mean, listen, I want two grams of Bicket when I come to the fucking regen conference. So I'm getting, you know what? I mean,

    I'll get them both. Oh, I think we, we can line that up. We can definitely line that up. Okay, man, well, listen,

    I'm so excited for these, these breeding projects, especially the one you sprung on us last minute. That's like an encore. You know, people were people did an ovation. You came out with another pollination right here on the show. I'm so excited for taste the soil guys show out for that one. That's July 29 just in a couple of weeks from when this drops. Go and check it out. Can you give the location and time again details on that? Yeah,

    so it's open to people that come out at 3:33pm and then the vending will end around eight. But like we said, you're more than welcome to stick around, hang out the campfire, enjoy the music that will most likely be played. Gracie has got a ton of friends who play bluegrass and start jamming out. And if you are into jamming and want to bring an instrument and join, you're more than welcome. It's an in cement city. Once you get the ticket, like a couple days before, we'll release the address via email and for reference, if no one's aware of where that's at. It is south of Lansing, I believe, by an hour, or maybe a little more close ish to the Ohio and Indiana border. So yeah, we'd love to have you guys out the event. It's being sold off Eventbrite, so you're going to have to either reach out to me directly, or check my stories, or we're gonna make a post about it. DM,

    yeah, wizard, or, you know what, I'll also repost that, and I will also post that in our Member classes and meetups channel and tag the Midwest chapter. So I'll blast that out for you guys. Taste the soil, am I? And get at Terp wizard, right at Terp wizard on Instagram, where, that's where they can find you.

    Terp underscore wizard, someone, someone already took someone took it years ago, and I would love to snatch it. I don't think that person's been active for many years now, though. Terp

    underscore wizard, go, follow, go. Message about the event, taste the soil, coming up, July 29 best of luck. Terp wizard, like I said, I'll make the next one for sure. I'm so happy that we got you back on the show. I'm so excited to get you back on again, man, we just really appreciate you. Huge friend of grow cast. We love what you're doing, and keep up the good work. Man, seriously,

    yeah, it was a pleasure. Man, thanks again for having me back and taking time to listen to me ramble. I hope to see some of you guys come out. And you know, if you can't make this one, wait for next year, and I think we'll end up doing it again. So thanks again. I appreciate it a lot. Jordan, of

    course, man, Terp underscore wizard on Instagram website, Terp wizard website, or just the IG,

    we have our. Dem, pure section of our farm that goes by plant magic homestead. And there's a link to our website through my IG as well as the plant magic homestead. We sell our seeds there. Come fall, once we get our honey harvested, we'll sell some honey. We'll sell some spices from our garden, maybe some hot sauce this year, just little things from the garden that make sense to ship. And you know, we're working on some other things on the website too, like some blogs and fun stuff. I

    love it. Stay tuned, everybody. Stay tuned to the Wiz. Thank you wizard. We will talk to you again soon. Thank you listener for tuning in to this program, and that's all for now. This is Jordan River and Terp wizard signing off. Wishing you an amazing, extraordinary day. We'll see you next time. Everybody be safe and grow smarter. That's our show. Thank you so much, Terp wizard, and thank you listeners. Now I'm also going to be in Michigan. Everybody. Legacy Michigan is july 21 through the 23rd I'm going to be there, and Terp wizard is going to be there. So come and see us. We got two events in Michigan. I'm going to be at one of I'm going to be at one of them. So come and see me. Come and see the whole grow cast crew. We got a bunch of members coming down. I'm very, very excited about this legacy Michigan, July 21 through the 23rd I'll see you there, and see everything we are doing at growcast podcast.com/classes, that'll give you all of our event dates. We have breeder classes up there. You can go buy your tickets for Virginia in September for the breeder class, and then Pesta Palooza is in SoCal at the end of this month. That's right. And then Florida in October. Grab your tickets. You want to grab the Pesta Palooza tickets early so you can get those cool pest scouting glasses and come and see us in Virginia for the breeder class in September. So excited, I cannot wait to smoke a bowl with you and talk about your garden in person. It's what I love to do. Everybody. Check us out at growcast podcast.com/membership join the order you got more bonus content, all sorts of goodies there waiting for you. And if not, no problem, I just appreciate you tuning into the show. I love helping people in their garden, so be extra safe out there and happy growing everybody, bye, bye, and see you next time

    you