Welcome everybody, it's your dead cat for the week. It's Tom dotun. Here joined by Eric newcomer, and Katie Benner. And our special guest this week is Kiki Friedman. Kiki is the CEO of hay Jane, which is a startup that provides abortion pills by mail. So obviously very topical, and very much a company that is offering something that will be very much more in need to many people in the coming months and years ahead. So first of all, Kiki, thank you for joining us.
Thank you guys for having me.
So before we get into all of the reasons that your company is fascinating, and to many people vital, I think we should just give a better explanation of what exactly Hey, Jane does, what sort of person it is helping and trying to reach? Yeah, let's just let's just start there.
Great. So we are a digital clinic for abortion access, I think the first place to start is how do we do that, and it's through the abortion pill, a leap one in five people right out of nowhere with the worst and believe it is. So I could give a quick overview of that. It's a set of medications that have been approved by the FDA since 2000. So I've been around a while, super, super safe, they actually have a lower adverse reaction rate than Tylenol, and very effective in that 98%. They're approved for use up to 11 weeks in the US, which is more than 90% of abortions. And so, you know, most patients will be eligible for them. The way he works is that folks can go online, and fill out a really easy sort of medical history consults, and then have a prescription confirmed by a licensed clinician, usually within 24 hours, the medications will then be mailed to their home. And we'll have lots of information on how to take them. And what's I think most unique about hygiene is throughout they'll have access to on demand, emotional support and online community. Should they want it to be able to connect with others going through the same thing at the same time,
is the ability to prescribe this through telemedicine new is that, you know, we had an episode about, you know, the ADHD medication. So I'm just wondering is, is this also possible because of telemedicine rules or as has been the case?
That's a great question. So prior to COVID, it was sort of legally ambiguous whether or not the medications could be dispensed via the mail. It basically they had just been given in clinics, doctors, offices, hospitals, but there had been already some strong momentum and research and policymaking towards allowing, you know, easier forms of access to align with the safety. So there was a great study called the tele abortion study done pre COVID. And then at the beginning of COVID, the UK actually launched a large scale offering of abortion pills by mail. And the FDA did finally make it permanently legal just last December,
what type of actually sorry, let me start with the pills themselves. Because you since we're diving into like the, you know, medical industry part of it, is this prescribing a certain company that makes these pills, is there multiple providers of it, like what exactly is the business behind? You know, the pills themselves?
There's two manufacturers of it. And there's the sort of new brand manufacturer that's been producing it since 2000. And then a generic came onto the market much more recently, I believe, in 2018.
And it's covered by health insurance. I mean, how much of these things cost? Typically, it depends. So
we see that the majority of abortion patients are within 200% of the federal poverty line. And so we really look at Medicaid access as being the most important indicator of insurance coverage. There's something called the Hyde Amendment federally that prevents federal abortion funds from being used, or
federal federal funds are being used to pay for abortions. Yeah,
however, some states do provide their own allocations of Medicaid funding to cover it. So long story short, it just depends based at the state whether or not Medicaid will will pay for
services. And if you're paying out of pocket, I mean, how much is it
18 $249, the national average is 550. And we also work with really great abortion funds who are able to provide financial assistance to patients who can't afford it. Got it.
Have you yet created a large enough customer base to see any trends and the sorts of folks who are coming to you? Does it tend to be people who skew younger? Who skew older? Yeah, and he sort of demographic information without giving away? I know, I understand there, obviously privacy issues around patient privacy laws, but just sort of in general, like who are you who you're reaching and who do you hope to reach?
Yeah, absolutely. So we've served almost 10,000 patients now. So we definitely have some good data. And what's really struck me is just the diversity of our patient base. It really just does speak to the fact that everyone gets abortion. We've seen folks really up Across the Ghana in terms of financial security in terms of urban versus rural in terms of education, etc, on average, or patients are sort of in their mid to late 20s. And they are skewing a little bit more urban, you know, like based in cities, and pretty much aligned with the national statistics on the average abortion patient.
And as of right now, this is gonna get very different I imagine, well, maybe not. But what states that do you guys currently serve people in, like where that people live? Can they can access your service.
We're currently live in six states. So New York, California, Washington, Illinois, Colorado, New Mexico. And we did pick states that have the highest treatment volume, but also some that are just strategically positioned to be those anchor states in a post real world where many people will need to travel across state lines in order to get care, do you
have to prove residency or what, you know, obviously, this is an important sort of service business, generally, but in the context of a world where people are going to be getting these pills, the rules will be state by state, people's ability to move from state to state is so important. So just curious, what's possible there.
Totally. So the law traditionally in telemedicine says that the patient must be located in the state where you're licensed in order to receive treatment. So they do not need to be a resident.
Right? I've had I've told doctors that I was in Connecticut, when they were like, No, you're in New York.
Yes, we can only serve patients if they're physically located in one of those six states and the patient's sort of a test of their location, our intake
by saying I live in that state, and they'd like provide, you know, utility bills, or it's really just like, check this box. If you say you live in Washington, yeah,
they don't need to provide any proof of residency because they don't need to be a resident. They just need to be physically there at the time of the treatment.
Right, which is why you can legally leave the state of Texas, for example, to go to another place to get an abortion.
Exactly, exactly. Now, some states are trying to get creative with this, Missouri did recently included one of their bills, the essentially restrictions on traveling to another state to get care for Missouri residents, which is quite disturbing and sort of unprecedented. And
I don't think we've seen anything like that since like, fugitive slave laws. Yeah. And so I think that that idea of what to do about leaving the state and whether or not people will try to control physical movement is something that will certainly be adjudicated, you can imagine that if any state were to pass a law like that, that a lawsuit would immediately follow. Yes, we have to
Katie, just because we do have you as an extra, can you give your like one minute state of play on likelihood that this, you know where the opinion is? Or just your view?
I think most people believe that this summer, we'll see a Roe vs. Wade be overturned, and if for some reason, not this summer very, very soon. I think that Alito is opinion. She has a lot of intent. And so anybody who thinks that you can stop that train, they can stop that train, I think most people are pretty delusional. That's that is wrong. That then throws the question of abortion to the 50 state legislatures. So again, if you believe in abortion rights, then you really should be looking at state legislatures and who becomes the governor and who is in and who's making state law. Among the state laws, several states have so called trigger laws that are set to go into effect the minute roe falls, those people will lose access to abortion. And then of course, you've all worked at Mississippi has only one abortion clinic, Texas has essentially made the practice incredibly difficult to have so much so that some people say that it's now essentially banned. Yeah, effectively banned. So you'll see a large swath of the country immediately rescind access to abortions. And so the question then becomes one will people, inevitably, we've already seen lots and lots of people travel across state lines to receive the procedure to undergo the procedure or to receive abortion medication, to the big question, and sort of the next legal fight is around services like key keys, how do those services continue to operate legally? Who do they serve? And then even questions about how do you advertise which I'd be so curious to hear from you? How do you advertise this service? Even today, in a world where it's not illegal, and and, you know, about half the country? And then three, sort of what does the fight look like on the ground state to state with the left with legislatures because Republicans have been extremely good on the ground organizing a strong ground game and taking back local governments.
And we should say, I mean, to kick it back over to you Kiki, like your company, obviously launched several years ago, right. But was it when you kind of conceived of this business and this service? Was it with this day in mind that one day there would be, you know, a Supreme Court decision overturning the basic right to an abortion that would affect millions and millions of women across, you know, half the states in this country?
I think we definitely saw the writing on the wall that things were gonna get a lot worse. As Katie mentioned, there's no set states that have one abortion clinic left across the entire state. I went to school in one of them and summer of 18 as summer 2019, that clinic was almost shut down. That's what sort of prompted the work that I've been doing on 18. But really, if you'd asked me that, if I thought roe would be falling in the next few years, the answer is a definite no, I think how extreme and quickly sort of these changes have rolling it. And taking place has definitely been surprising to me.
So but the specifics of of your business like Katie was mentioning, like, what happens to you now I remember talking to you about this company, it was like 2021, it was a piece I had done about like Uber Eats alumni, you went in a very different direction, what what exactly is going to materially change about the way you run this company? Who would conserve like Katie was saying, how you market it? I mean, like, what, what is the direct impact for you? Yeah.
So the present state of things that there are 18 states that have already banned access to telemedicine abortion, so we cannot serve patients in those states. But unfortunately, in a poster world, all of those states will ban abortion completely. And so those patients will need to travel to states where telemedicine is an option. And they are forecasting that 26 seats in total will ban abortion after roe. And essentially, all of the people who need treatments within the states will be you know, funneled into a much smaller number of geographies, there's forecasting that California is expected to see a 3,000% increase in the number of out of C patients in Illinois, almost 9,000%. And the clinics there are just going to be experiencing a surge in demand that will be very, very difficult for them to accommodate, we're already hearing of increased wait times, sometimes two to three weeks for clinics. And that can be untenable for a time sensitive treatment and one that also may come with quite a bit of anxiety and eagerness to just, you know, get it done. And so we view hygiene as survey, you know, a role in stepping in and absorbing a lot of that excess demand, creating a additional channel for access, in addition to the in person clinics, which I want to emphasize, are such an important part of this ecosystem and need to continue existing no matter what and telemedicine will not be a panacea for everything. But certainly having an additional and potentially more scalable form of choice will be will be necessary.
This is a basic one, but the pills need to be prescribed or Yeah. And then if you're going to a clinic in person, during this sort of early period where the pill works, would they prescribe a pill? Or would they have sort of a different solution? Yeah,
it depends on the clinic, but certainly many of them do prescribe medication abortion in person. You know, speaking about
geography. Also, one more thing I wanted to note, we talked about the state legislative battles, I think it's important never to presume which states will allow abortions and which will not I think New York is probably the most interesting example. When you look at projections of New York state elections over the next few cycles, New York could very well become a purple state. And I think there was even just two years ago, people who could never envision New York being anything but blue. And so I think that is really so keep in mind, even like
a purple state. Do you think it's possible that they would take a step to outlaw something like telemedicine abortions? Yes.
So, the you know, so again, like this is when I say this is going to be a legislative state by state legislative battle, I really, I do think that there's going to be a lot of activity around abortion, and that's going to start informing state elections. Now, keep in mind, again, I think I would argue Republicans have been much better at paying attention to what's going on state to state and trying to win governors mansions, and trying to win legislature. So that's important to look at, but also on geography. You know, Kiki, you're starting a company. I remember when I was covering the valley ages ago, it was the question was, do you have to be in the valley in San Francisco or even la in order to start a company? The answer during the pandemic was a resounding no. And people flocked to Texas, and Florida. Interestingly, among other states, will it start to matter to startups now, where they establish themselves for your own employee base for the kind of culture you want to have? Will people think twice about being in states that have banned something like abortion or even looking ahead states that raise questions about things like same sex marriage, which is also predicated on a similar reading of the 14th amendment? That row was predicated on you know, so will your location become a bigger question?
I would have to think so. I mean, besides sort of like the justice and rights issue of it all, there are real economic consequences to it. We've already seen a number of large companies like Amazon and city rollout travel reimbursement for patients who need to prostate lines in order to get abortion care and one in four women and you know, other people with uteruses will get an abortion their lives. It's not fringe treatment. And so if you're needing to absorb all of these additional costs, let alone loss and productivity from patients, you know, traveling for many days in order to get care. That's significant. And that's sort of like the cold bottom line and view on it. I think also, we do see employees of tech companies care a lot about this, and I think may not want to participate in a culture that is so restrictive on this and, you know, potentially other issues moving forward.
What's What's your sense, by the way, on the response by tech companies to very, I mean to their employees, but also signal more publicly that they are going to be covering the cost of crossing state lines to get abortions if they, if they so need, I mean, you know, in one sense, you've seen Amazon and I believe Starbucks or two that come to mind, you probably have a list of others that have said they're willing to do that. The same time, there was a story that was in the verge, I think the other day that brought up that on Facebook, they are highly encouraging. I don't even use it stricter than that to admonishing employees to not discuss abortion on workplace Slack. So, you know, in one sense, you want to make it clear that it's a benefit, these companies probably still even allow that as a benefit to, you know, cover crossing state lines to receive the treatment, or care, but also, they don't really want to discuss it for fear of antagonizing or alienating the people who are morally opposed to it. I mean, where does tech sit on that kind of spectrum continuum? That is
really interesting. I will say, after SB, for example, the you know, Texas law that did portion, after six weeks, there was kind of a deafening silence from tech across the board, right. There were a few exceptions. But it was pretty quiet in terms of responses. So I will say I was pleasantly surprised to see some of these companies step up and offer to support their employees and traveling to get care. I think they've gotten critique, you know, they always could do more. But on an issue that folks have really been scared to talk about at all, I think I'm happy to, we'll take what we could get. And I was happy to see, at least that acknowledged. But
I just think these companies don't really know how to, you know, they're trying to walk this line of expressing what would be the moral outrage of their employees, but also not trying to alienate the people that could blow up into some media firestorm
on their own employees. By the way, some of their employees are anti choice, some of their employees agree with the overturning of Roe vs. Wade, I don't think we can forget that. I've been, obviously I've been thinking a lot about feminism. And what's sort of what's happening more broadly. And I go back to, you know, an essay that was written by Joan Didion, where she talks about, you know, at the height of feminism, as we know, from the mid century, this, she validly questions, the idea that any movement can capture a whole group of people just because they all happen have a uterus, and why. And sort of the contortions that needs to be made for feminism to be relevant to people who don't want it to be relevant to them. And it was a really smart, insightful, some questions that were never really answered, I think at the time she posed them. And we've set the scene successive waves of feminism, common goal. And now we're at a point where we're dealing with legal questions, run a medical procedure, but that really does speak to the heart of can we make assumptions about groups of people simply because they share a physical characteristic, in this case, because they work in a certain kind of company. So I think the time is, right, the companies are walking a tightrope. But it's not just because they're trying to handle an internal conversation versus an excellent, gentle conversation. I think that it would be wrong to say that the internal conversation at a company that has many employees is meta or alphabet, formerly known as Facebook and Google, that they all those employees feel the same way. Just throwing that out there as a caveat.
Yeah. And I think they'd be much happier, sort of, they would rather no one ever discussed controversial topics, including ever, they know, but they almost would feel much more comfortable providing this as a benefit, I think, then then they would ever having people discuss it because it's a perk for the people who want it and they can avoid what they view as like the toxic workplace slack discussions that they view is like so detrimental to productivity and morale and all of these issues
totally, or it's like we were saying earlier before we hopped on line. It's like if I pop into my slack workgroup, and I'm like, Guys, I'm going to be out on Friday because I have a dentist appointment. I'm getting my wisdom teeth removed. It'd be like, Alright, see you on Monday. If I pop in, I was like, I'm out Friday because I'm getting an abortion. I'm probably going to be fine by Monday. See you later. Like, what does what does a company do with that conversation? Right? How do they treat it? If when there was no question of legality, it was one thing right when you could say that well in every state abortions legal To at least some extent, there'd be nothing that could be done. But if you're in a state where it's illegal, is that then akin to saying, guys, I gotta go because I'm going to shoot up? I'm gonna use heroin all day Friday. And I'll see you on Monday, you know, like, like, on its face illegal
hacks. Right, right. I mean, like it rolls into the, you know, almost the mentality of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, they seem fine to allow it to happen on some level, they just don't want to be aware of it. As far as that part goes, I mean, like to even put it into a more like crass business question for you, Kiki, are you working with any of these companies? Have you gotten outreach from medium to large tech companies that are trying to tell their employees, we've got you covered, if this is what you need? I mean, this is a business opportunity.
We have not received outreach directly from any of the companies yet. But interestingly, we have seen interest from insurers. So some of the payers that support these larger companies, and particularly unself paid plans, they do seem to be expressing quite a bit of appetite for new ways to get their employees access to the service. And I wouldn't be surprised if we do start seeing more direct outreach soon. And we've historically when we thought about it, as you guys had mentioned, thought it was simply too controversial to be a b2b product and press terms. But it does seem like that is beginning to shift
your startup that's raise capital, what can you talk about sort of how much you've raised and sort of the strategy there? But then there's also, you know, a cause component where there are lots of people sort of who believe in it are there are ways for people to support you financially beyond getting on the cap table are sort of how, how do you think about sort of straddling we're normal Corporation, and obviously, there's a sort of, well, we'll have people who want to support us anyway.
Yeah. So we raised 3.6 million last year, in our seed round, we got a really awesome sort of syndicate of angels and existing groups, who are all super aligned with the mission and just very, very supportive of the work. So we're super grateful for them. And in terms of ways to support hate gene, I think that donating to abortion funds is one of the best thing people can be doing right now. And we partner with several in the states that we're in. And there are really great buttons sort of across the country. And those allow us to give free care to patients who need it. There are also practical support organizations, it's called who will help patients cover the cost of travel, which is of course becoming increasingly irrelevant. One other thing that we've been thinking about a lot recently and could always use support on sort of, to what Katie was talking about earlier, is, while we see a lot of the hostile states passing these really restrictive and draconian bills to veto restrict access to abortion, some of the more progressive states like New York, California, Connecticut, have been passing protective measures to sort of counterbalance those and limit the degree to which abortion providers or other folks just assisting with abortion access could get sued by some of these other jurisdictions civilly or criminally, whatever. And so letting your local governments know that this is important is really helpful.
Democrats are about to become experts in federalism, I mean, they just keep thinking
they weren't already
right, people going to Nevada or whatever, to get a divorce or annulment. I mean, now it's like are married, you know, now all of a sudden, I don't know, yeah, Democrats are gonna be obsessed with retaining their their blue states rights to serve people in red states. We sort of touched on this with the corporate thing. And, you know, you don't necessarily need to have a strong opinion. But I'm curious. I mean, do you? Do you think employees should demand that their employer, a tech company, you know, provide services for abortion, or comes out as sort of pro choice explicitly? Or do you think that's sort of too much to ask?
I do think that abortion is healthcare and it again, one for women of people theaters, this will get one. So I do think then covering it is a must if they're going to be offering robust health care services, whether or not they have to make a personal statement on their opinions on it, I feel I feel strongly about but they should absolutely be supported against this to health care for their employees. And this is a key part of it. That makes sense.
What's interesting is the more we talk about this, it kind of it is very much within the capability of tech companies and specifically the kind of consumer based sharing economy type companies to provide national access to people. And I think you've seen some movements towards that. I don't know if Airbnb has explicitly said they're willing to have someone for free. That is crossing state lines to receive an abortion, but they could, will you know, they've offered up housing for Ukrainian refugees and other people dealing with geopolitical crises. Uber and Lyft. could very easily and I don't want to speak completely out of turn, right. I think they may have made some gestures again towards this but they could provide, you know, assuming the driver would want to be on board with that. Transportation for people. And it reminds me of the conversation we had a couple months back about Spotify, and how, you know, we've sort of outsourced questions around free speech to corporations and helping them kind of adjudicate what is or isn't allowed to be discussed and where the line is drawn, and who should be responsible for deciding when speech goes too far, in the same exact thing could happen with with abortion and with tech companies. And it's relatively easy probably to restrict, or to set lines around free speech, because that's just a matter of turning an account off. But for something like this, where real money real physical people, you're moving them around, there's logistics on the line here. Let's like, let's see what you do here. Like, let's let's see where your morals actually stand and how far you're willing to go to support something that like punitively you do.
Right the one the one caution, though Tom is keep in mind states have proposed making it punishable to aid or abet a person was receiving an abortion. So what you've just described could for some states run follow those laws, the aiding and abetting somebody who wants to get an abortion?
Well, either this Supreme Court was vociferously defender of corporate speech being free speech and deploying money being a form of exercising speech. So you would think corporations, expressing their First Amendment principles with their pocketbooks would be the most thing. Most American thing you could do with conservatives,
but that's very different from ever that's different from giving somebody free housing, who's left their state to get an abortion, and is that then aiding and abetting somebody who is committing an illegal act? Because keep in mind, soon, this will be an illegal act, in many states. So we're not talking about free speech, free speech is not illegal anywhere. I mean, this is this is what abortion will literally be illegal in several states. And if you're helping people to break a state law, that is that, depending on how the laws are written state where you're helping them go to another state. And depending on how the laws are written in certain states, that could be a
punishable Act, as I guess, like the fugitive slave law, basically,
thank you very much. It's a great example. This is not as simple as something on speech.
It's simple. I'm being I'm being cute and
operations who feel very bold today, their general counsel's are going to be looking hard at all of these state laws that get passed to figure out exactly what they can do, because they probably will be disinclined to run afoul of the law that says they be aiding and abetting. Yeah,
I think a lot of these states make it punishable to aid and abet regardless of whether you did so knowingly. So in the case of Texas, for example, there was a lot of attention on the idea of an Uber driver dropping someone off near an abortion clinic, potentially unaware that they did that. And Uber and Lyft. Both did I believe on launch liberal, legal defense funds for that type of scenario. But all of the the structure of these laws is just so new and sort of untested, that I think the tech companies that deal with the physical world in any way, are going to be running up against them, whether they like it or not. Yeah, absolutely,
absolutely. But I guess the question is for them, how hard do they want to try to test the limits of these laws. And now a lot of these companies aren't that flush, frankly, so you know, how much they really want to invest at times that their stock prices are plummeting, in, you know, arguing novel legal defenses to why they should be allowed to do and perform these services could seem a huge distraction and financial. But at the same time, if you truly are so in favor of the you know, these possibilities, these legalities for the broader public that you serve, stand for it, push for it. I mean, I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems a lot easier to put out a press release, or to very nominally provide low level services to people, but something harder to like, truly be a part of the legal cause that could provide foundational support for these people.
I mean, I just think we've gotten to a point where a lot of these tech companies have core values sort of express opinions about all sorts of things. And, yeah, it seems perfectly reasonable that they would be sort of open supporters of choice, given that most of their employees support choice. Yeah, I mean, I can see why they didn't want to do it. But but that seems perfectly in line with, you know, taking a stance and lots of other issues. Well, it's
interesting also, when these issues also crossed with other causes that they're not in favor of. So Amazon, for example, announced that they were going to provide, you know, abortion access for all of their employees, but not for the workers in their warehouses, not for the people that are not full time. Now. There's like practical reasons for that, which is that these people probably don't have Amazon run health insurance. So it might not be as simple as just sort of saying our Amazon health care plan provides for you know, that sort of support, but they could is the thing but then it crossed into another line of like, well, are these people employees do they need to be given rights beyond just those of you know, 1099 contractors and they're definitely not going to cross that line anytime. Soon, like, that's, that's a hard one for them.
Can you talk about it? What's the scale that you're operating at right now? And I mean, are there big medical companies that are competing with you? Or what? Yeah. Why? Why should a start up deliver this service instead of, you know, a traditional medical company?
Yeah. So there aren't any huge medical companies doing telemedicine abortion, and the way that in the way that we are that, you know, that makes it fully digital. There are other groups students offering similar products, but it is new, there was that recent regulatory shift that just sort of made it possible. And I think there is also just across all of healthcare, a lot of legacy momentum, that limits piloting step, we have already seen quite a steep increase in demand since the road memo leaked, I think, in part because more people are becoming aware of this as an option. But also, I think, yet people are seeking out new new forms of access. So it's sort of an unfortunate relighting, but definitely expecting demand to go up.
And did you see already how you're advertising to increase customer, your to grow your customer base?
Yeah, it's mostly through Google search. It's, uh, you know, people are actively seeking out a solution. And so they find us primarily through Google, I think you asked earlier about, maybe the ability to advertise in some of the states where some of the more hostile states, the lawyers are still looking into that, again, this is also NATO. But it seems as if that may not be advisable, given sort of some of the aiding and abetting restrictions that exist. But due to wonderful journalists, like you guys and social media, I think there has been more visibility to PJ and other telemedicine models. And in those days,
are you surprised at all? I mean, you came to this, like you said, having worked or maybe like I said, you were at Uber Eats for you're one of the earlier people that worked on that product. And I think you were running businesses in, like India and Africa, right. So kind of like the more out there, extensions of Uber Eats is territories, the kind of more ideological and cause based approach that a lot of tech employees have adopted in the last couple of years, it seemed like, you know, the focus on growth and transformational companies purely and like we can be very large and make a lot of money to find a large era of tech, certainly the one that Katie and Eric and I haven't been writing about. But are we moving towards a point now, where you we are going to see more, you know, tech employees, start companies or be involved in, you know, capitalistic enterprises towards specific causes like yours?
I hope so. And there does seem to be quite a bit of research that consumers are valuing companies that have strong social mission wars, I think you can support it from a capitalistic justification. But I also do think there's been a recognition of some of the problematic natures of hyper growth and also just serving underserved markets can be really good business, in addition to serving an important social purpose. Cool.
I mean, if Hey, Jane were to grow, like, do you think eventually you would grow in the telemedicine space? Or do you think you would grow into sort of more services around abortion or like, yeah, what's I obviously we're mostly interested in sort of the cause element. But as a diligent startup reporter, what is the TAM for this business?
So it's been really interesting since launching EJ and one of the things we've noticed is that we have, like the highest NPS of any telemedicine company that we've seen, and ASP Net Promoter Score, sort of customer satisfaction. And I think one of the reasons for that is because we've developed a model that layers on emotional support and community support over this core clinical experience, and people seem to really, really like it, as opposed to traditional digital clinic models that may be more transactional. So now, we are really excited to think about applying that model to other underserved treatment, we actually just started testing into postpartum depression, which, again, is extraordinarily common, and also sort of ignored by the healthcare system today. And we have some other big ideas for additional treatments in the future.
Or investors like ever perfect. You'd be like, Why don't you just spend more time on that? That's so much less controversial. There are so few Supreme Court decisions that could affect the growth of a post partum depression aside from Tom Cruise and Scientology,
the name sort of locks you in right? I mean, is it Hey, Jane, I mean, it's like it's there's a sort of abortion advocacy reverence there, right, or what's what's sort of the origin of the name?
Yeah, I mean, the name Jane has been used, I think throughout abortion access in history. There's the Jane collective Jane Roe, of course, and so we're just trying to sort of give a nod to that historical work that we're now building off of,
if you were to, you know, tell people that are interested who maybe are not, you know, just being made aware of your your service but want to support it in some way or the other they're I mean, can you direct us towards a couple of sites or causes or people that we
should check out? Yeah, absolutely. We posted a bunch of resources on our email@example.com. And on our Instagram at Dean Hal, and there's some great abortion funds to donate to and other actions that you could take to sort of drive forward access. The other thing you could do is just let people know that the abortion pill exists. And that often is like, hey, Jane are out there recently, when in fact, people know about the abortion pill. And so we really want to make sure people are aware that it's an option for them. Great. Kiki, thank
you so much for joining. I'm sure it's a crazy busy time, a lot of stuff changing that you have to deal with that we all have to deal with. So some more than others. But thank you so much for joining. And, yeah, well,