riverside_copy_of complete ali boehme_radical_massage the
2:59PM Jan 23, 2025
Speakers:
Krista Dicks
Keywords:
massage career benefits
COVID-19 impact
online coaching
creative outlet
safety workshop
self-defense techniques
therapist empowerment
client boundaries
professional confidence
intuition training
clinic support
predator prevention
massage industry changes
public education
safety training
Hello radical massage therapist, and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast. I'm your host, Krista, registered massage therapist and clinic owner in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Lucky for you, I am not the radical massage therapist, but you are. You want to learn more about the benefits of a massage career, such as freedom, flexibility, financial success and fun outside of your career, not just what's happening inside your career. I hope these episodes will inspire you to create a really awesome life around a sustainable massage career. Meet Allie BAME of the massage business mama, a massage business strategist whose mission is to elevate the field by empowering massage therapists through all stages of their careers. Ally is a podcaster, educator, blogger and mom today, we are here to discuss her course, empowered practitioner, a safety workshop for massage therapists. I hope you enjoy this episode with Ally.
Thanks so much for joining me on the radical massage therapist podcast. Thanks for having me. Krista, I am really looking forward to speaking with you. I have been following you for a while. I love your newsletters, especially during the pandemic. You went through some some changes in your your own practice, and those were really interesting to follow what the dynamics were like happening in your the building where you were actually practicing. I really appreciate you bringing us along on that
journey. Yeah. I mean, that was such an emotional time for so many people, and I was not unaffected by by those emotions. So I appreciate that insight,
yeah. And what do you love most about where you're you're at right now in your massage practice and in your massage business?
Yeah? So, um, like you said, you know, during the COVID time period, I experienced a lot of changes in my practice. So I went from having a forum treatment center where I had about 15 people working for me, to downsizing, and now it's just me and my personal massage practice. And before COVID came about. I had been teaching classes online, and I had been dipping my toe into the online space and and so I kind of was already started on that journey of of doing coaching and doing blog work and doing podcasts and all related to massage and the massage industry, and that change that happened because of COVID, while it was emotional and it was it was really a big change in terms of the day to day. It allowed me to focus on a lot of the online stuff, which for me is really wonderful, because it feeds a creative side of my soul that I just I feel like I need in my life to really feel alive. And so I think it's, it's become a really good balance, where I have my personal clients and it's just me. I don't have staff working for me anymore. I'm in a really beautiful office location that I just feel so blessed to come to every day, and then also having that time to really be creative and pursue the online pursuits. Yeah,
I love that you mentioned creative, and that you you can see your course courses and that online work that you do as something that is creative, certainly on this podcast, I've mentioned something like that before, that we all need a creative outlet, and that we're not defined by our careers, and we're more than massage therapists, and we have so much more to offer than just the hands on skills in our treatment, time with with clients, and I've also found like the podcast and providing online resources and doing social media reels. And as silly as it sounds, sometimes I actually see that as a creative outlet. And as someone who's not been our artsy or, you know, can play an instrument which is not really an excuse, but I feel like it's so important to find that piece of creativity. And I'm really glad to hear you say that you you find that that is the outlet
for Yeah, I mean, I think, I think sometimes, when we're like, so keyed into our body work, and we're doing so many sessions that it can get kind of monotonous if we don't have some type of an outlet, you know, whatever it is, like painting piano, whatever, whatever it might be. So yeah,
for sure. And then if you're doing your practice. Right in a more sustainable way. And you're not, you're not working all the time, and then you do have that free time to explore those different opportunities, right? For sure, for sure. Yeah, I love that. When did the when the, when did the courses come up for you? You were, you know, you, they were so excited, so side by side with your treatments. But then, like, what was the initial spark for, for, like, a course,
yeah, so I guess in 2019 I was teaching in a massage College, and so I kind of had just started getting myself going in the education community at that point, and when COVID hit, that school shut down and has not reopened, and I just found myself Being really passionate about helping other therapists. And so I transferred some of that into an online program. And, you know, I have have a big year long coaching program, and then I also have a few smaller workshops and membership program and some other things like that. But I think, I think in 2019 when I started that teaching endeavor at the college, it just really awoke something in me that I wanted to help more people. So yeah, did
you have a mentor when you were in massage school or when you were developing your practice? Did you have somebody that you went to for advice or
or watched? I did. I did so we had in the school I went to we were required to do internship hours, okay? And I did several different internships. And one of the internships I did was with a woman who owned a practice similar to what I wanted to open someday, so a multi therapist practice with multiple treatment rooms and different modalities represented, and so I spent a lot of time time with her, and she was really Wonderful and just so open and encouraging with her insight and her advice, and it was definitely instrumental in in what I ended up creating in the space here in my town. Yeah,
amazing. And I you've been in practice almost pretty much as long as I have been I've been massaging since 2006 is when I graduated.
Okay, yep, yeah, I was 2008
Yeah. So, like, not that that far behind, and you're in the States, in the US. And how do you find the responses to online courses versus in person courses? Do you teach anything in person anymore. Occasionally
I will do some safety and Self Defense in person workshops. But mostly these days, it's online, and the response is, great, yeah, it's been good. It's, I think, you know, there's so many methods for delivering material these days that there's ways to make it interactive, and there's ways to to really encompass a lot, and so I think that's a blessing that's come recently for
sure. Yeah, I think we've understood that there is a shift, and we can make it interesting, even in a hands on profession, we can learn effectively online. So I think there's a good in Canada here. I think that we're, we're kind of a 5050, depending like on what's going on. But yeah, I think there was a bit of resistance in the beginning. You just couldn't, didn't feel like you could retain it as well. But
yeah, we couldn't quite wrap our brains around it, yeah, yeah,
but I think we're getting the hang of it now. All right. Well, since you mentioned it, you have this wonderful course about empowering massage therapists to feel safe, and you're also teaching self defense techniques, yeah? And I think this is really important in our profession. I'm really it's also unfortunate that it's really like, it's something that we have to have a, you know, a full discussion and, course, around. So how did, how did this come up for you? How did, how did this self defense and safety become a concern for you? Yeah,
so, I mean, I agree Krista that it's an unfortunate thing that we have to broach it, but I think anyone who's in the profession, it behooves them to arm themselves with defenses. And for me, it really got started early in my career, in. I encountered quite a few situations where I just I didn't feel equipped myself to handle what was coming at me, and I realized that my school had really a gap in the education around solicitations. And I remember in school we were told not to shame a man if he got an erection. And you know, I think, I think there's some validity to advice like that, but I also think that that does the therapist a disservice, because it's not telling them how to handle it. Because although sometimes it may be harmless, oftentimes it might not be harmless, and if we aren't really empowered to know what to do, it can catch us off guard, and it leaves us in a really vulnerable situation. So so that was the first thing that really got me started on this journey, was like my own personal experiences of just having really uncomfortable situations and not knowing how to handle myself and feeling a lot of guilt around that feeling like, after I had reflected on on certain situations, like, Oh, I could have handled that so much better, and why didn't I handle that so much better? And like, I'm so stupid, and I'm, I'm, like, so naive and and all of that negative self talk that really shouldn't have been there. I was, I was learning, but also I think that, you know, others can avoid some of that negative self talk if, if we're given the opportunity to talk through some of these situations. So that was the first thing for me, and then the second thing for me that happened was I started having staff work for me. And, you know, after a few years, I learned the tools and techniques myself to protect myself, but I started having these really young, um, inexperienced, sweet, soft spoken therapists start working for me, and they were having encounters, and I felt so much responsibility for their safety and well being. And I just thought there has to be some way to create some more knowledge around this and to empower them a little bit more.
So when we're you're, when you're, you are teaching an empowering massage therapist. We're talking about the the language that we can use, how we can handle a situation in the treatment room. And then also, it sounds like you're talking about physical, physical safety, like in self defense that we can, we can access as well,
yeah. And so, I mean, I think that the safety for a massage therapist is not just in the treatment space. It's, I think that there's ways that we can prepare ourselves ahead of time so that we aren't a target. They say that one of the number one things that a predator looks for is a passive person, and so a lot of that is just learning to to get that strength and to get that confidence. And you know, a lot of times I think when you just become a therapist, you're not confident because you're not confident in your hands on skills, and so that gets projected out into the world, and maybe it has nothing to do with not being confident in in saying no to a solicitation, but because you're not as confident in those hands on skills, you appear passive. So so some of it is that pre work of just having that confidence, being able to stand strong, being able to be assertive, knowing knowing what type of language to include on your website that isn't going to attract someone that's that's a huge thing that we talk about. And then also, outside of that treatment space, outside of, you know, the actual massage is that oftentimes we're, we're working late at night, we're looking working alone in buildings, and so we're having to walk to our car afterwards, we're walking through empty stairwells, and so that's where some of the self defense techniques come in, not so much so that we're doing self defense techniques in the treatment room, but that we have that confidence and that ability to keep ourselves safe all the time.
And for individuals who have taken the course right for even for your own staff, if you were to help them on this this journey, have you seen trans like clear transformation between a more of like a passive there? Therapist who's not as confident in even like body language and how they present themselves to then develop into somebody who is more confident, who can stand more firm in their their boundaries. Yeah,
yeah. I think so for sure. And and I think sometimes practicing some of these self defense techniques that we have that seem like kind of silly or like overly aggressive for what we might need in a treatment room, it just equips us with that assertiveness and those tools and and the language to to come across more assertive and so, yeah, I have seen some transformations for sure,
excellent. Yeah. And then, do you partner with anybody else went with the with this workshop? Yeah,
yeah. So my friend Kristen beantle, how this, how this workshop all got started. Like I said, I had these, these therapists in my town. There was an illicit massage practice that was performing happy endings in my town. And what I noticed when that practice came into being here was that there was a rise in inquiries and and so I partnered with my friend Kristen Benzel, who is a former police officer, and so she's, she's learned all of the techniques that they teach police officers to utilize. And, you know, she's a small woman, she's not a big woman. And so she was really able to transfer that knowledge to the stereotypical massage therapist, the small female, maybe, and, and so we, we started out by doing these workshops in person with my staff, and it was just so powerful and, and I just knew that it needed to be brought to a bigger audience. So yeah, when
you brought it to your staff, did anybody resist it? Did anybody dismiss it as a concern or a need? Um, I think,
I think most people were really open to it and and one of the things that came out of that work, when it was in person with my staff, was really the need for this work in everyone's personal life as well. So, so that was pretty great. I think maybe I had one, one or a few staff who were really seasoned and, you know, felt pretty confident and and weren't as receptive to it, which I understand. You know, when you've been doing it for 15 years like you have, you have a few more tools than when you're fresh at the game.
You do, but you might not. I mean, you've got that people experience, or you've got the hands on skills and maybe that professionalism. But some of us, even in 15 years might have never encountered that type of scenario, so it is always good just to walk through what could happen and then just be be ready for it before something does come up. And I mean, I'm 18 years in practice, and I feel like I've got a big F off sign on my forehead, because thankfully, I've, like, had no, no concerns. And, yeah, I never Krista. You've never had a problem. I've never had any kind of propositions or anything like that, which has been really, really excellent. I've worked with therapists who have I've worked in many different types of environments where that might was definitely more of a concern, like hotel spaws and the you know, the team was very good at educating us. Obviously, we have a zero tolerance policy for, you know, and you can say that, that we have a zero tolerance policy for harassment or abuse, but that doesn't mean that you get that that confidence comes out when it does, when it's, you know, happening to you. I understand that well. And also,
Krista, you know, I think one of the things we talk about inside my workshop is, are you, if you're not working for yourself, are you working for someone who's going to support you? Because, you know, sometimes we get these mixed messages from employers where it's like, well, the customer is always right, and you don't necessarily feel like you are going to be backed if you, you know, get assertive, sure,
yeah. And I can understand that if you're working in more of a clinic environment, where you're there's a clinic owner, or you're employed, there's this, I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to lose this client on behalf of the clinic, even though it is completely inappropriate, and you don't really want this type of client in your practice anyway, but I can understand that that does make sense when there might be that that concern is the employer supporting you and saying like, you know, we have a zero tolerance policy. I mean, I know at our clinic we do, and. Um, so it's, it is, you know, in our, in our language and in our, you know, our resources that that, I will back up any therapist that chooses to get any kind of weird vibe, even if it's a question over the phone, or that, that kind of thing, or a note on the file that's a little bit not so sure about this one, then we'll, you know, we'll, we'll handle it before it can even come into the clinic. But, yeah, I can understand how some people, especially the an early therapist, wouldn't want to lose the client and get the employer upset with them. And
sometimes, I also think that we don't think about all the different situations that we might encounter, sure, and so it's like, we're so caught off guard, because it just never occurred to us that that might be the case. But if we're able to do like in the workshop, we do some role playing and stuff, and it's like, if we're able to think outside the box and think of some of these situations, then when we actually might be encountered with something, it's definitely easier to respond in an appropriate way.
Yeah, like, and I think that that is really key as well, because I think we might expect that it's going to be in a very obvious, you know, like, something obvious is going to happen, but you're right, like, there's those small role playing scenarios can make a difference, because it can, and it might not be in the first session, it could be somebody that is kind of seeing where
they can go others, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I'm, I'm really happy for you that you've never experienced anything like this. But, you know, I feel like, in my career, I've experienced like over things that are really obvious, especially in the beginning part of my career, but then also in the latter part of my career, I've had situations where, you know, clients have started to develop feelings for me. And it's, it's like, you know, this, this boundary has been crossed for them, and then I have to re establish these boundaries and and say, you know, that's not appropriate. And, and handling those type of situations too, which, you know, can create their own set of problems.
Yeah, absolutely, you know, I think it's wonderful that you're, you're empowering massage therapists and training them on this and giving them the scenarios I have. I know, as I said at the beginning, like I feel like it's unfortunate that we have to have a workshop like this in our profession, but it is. It was obvious why. And then I think my my my, like, segue is just that, how are we? How are we? Why is it always up to us to be on the defense? Why and how can we educate the public? Yeah, everybody. Because as soon I know, I know that we come from a profession that does is is an ongoing process to re educate. I understand that. But, yeah, how can we keep educating the public, and why is it always our responsibility? Why can't we just tell them to not talk that way or behave that way with their healthcare practitioner? And I mean,
I think we've come a long way, like even, you know, since you and I got into practice, I really, I see changes, um, but then, you know, I'm caught off guard, like, you know, not infrequently, by by things that people say and do, where I'm like, okay, like, we have come a long way, but we still have a ways to go. Oh, yes,
definitely, definitely, yeah, yeah. So, how do you how do you believe that this is going to enhance the the skills of a massage therapist? How like, so that they're like, how do you feel like this is going to enhance their their skill set and their practice?
I mean, the biggest thing that I hope that people walk away with after taking my course, my my workshop, is that they become less of a target, not that they feel like less of a target, but they actually become less of a target. And so that's that's kind of the goal, is to learn how to present yourself and feel more confident and and because, again, getting back to what I was saying earlier, the number one thing that's going to determine whether or not you are a target is how you are perceived Because, because people that are looking to be predators. They're looking for that passive, passive person. So if we're not appearing that way, then we're not a target. Yeah,
it's also difficult to stay in age as well. I mean, it's wonderful. We've got online booking, so it really is just a click of a mouse. Somebody's booked their appointment with you, you know, so you you can do as much as you know. It's not until they get into the clinic space that you get to assert that professionalism. And that's
one of the things, actually, that we go over as well in the course, is how to have intake forms that are required beforehand that are super clear, like this is not a place that allows that type of
shenanigans. Absolutely shenanigans indeed. Yeah, do you and your in your experience or working with your staff working with massage therapists who have taken this course. Are we seeing it? Males and female? Massage Therapists are both feeling vulnerable in these situations. Is it both clients, male and female, doing the the predatory behavior? In
my experience, from what I've observed and the therapists that have come forward to share their stories, it's primarily women that were focused on in terms of the therapist, and then primarily men in terms of the credit tours. So that's, that's been, that's been, really the only stories that I've heard. I have not, I have not heard of, well, that that's not entirely true. I've, I have, I do have one therapist who, he, he was, was having some situations with other males. So male on male, yeah,
right, yeah. I feel like that that can be, yeah, an issue as well. Yeah, okay, yeah. And even, you know, I worked in, like I said, hotel spas. And what was interesting, though, it didn't seem to be the females that were propositioned, but the male therapists seemed to be propositioned quite a bit. And the mentality behind that was just, it was, you know, the female at the spa, you know they're staying at the hotel, is sort of like lone, lonely, like a different, maybe a different aspect of it, but nonetheless, still inappropriate, yeah,
and like, really deters from the professionalism that we're trying to establish in the field, and that helps us to move away from that stigma where we, like you were saying before, why do we have to keep educating people? You know, it's, it's important that we act in professional manners so that we are elevating the field and not, yeah, bringing back more problems upon ourselves, exactly.
And you, sort of, you did mention that, you know, people are taking this into their personal lives as well. So beyond just like physical protection, how do you think these skills can positively impact, like a massage therapist overall, well being and and their practice? Where can they see that in their in their real life?
I mean, I think, I think having more confidence and being more assertive, you know, not in a negative way, just just having that, that resilient confidence. I mean, I think it can help you to build your business. I think, I think that when, when you're able to project yourself in that way, that you're going to attract more clients. Um, I think you're, you're just, you're, you know, I'm looking at it more from a business perspective now, because I think, I think that it's true that when you're you're not super confident, you're kind of passive, that people are like, Why would I go see her for massage? Like she doesn't seem like she's that confident in her skills or her ability. And so I think that that's an unintended positive side effect from gaining some of these skills, is that it could carry over to your business success.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Like the exact great example, like, if you're not feeling confident just in talking about your practice or massage therapy in general, and you're not projecting that confidence, then, yeah, why? Why would people be drawn to book a session with you for for your skill set, that's really important. Do you have examples? Because I know that it is really if it comes down to educating the public, and I'm going outside of like, your practice, if someone, if you are introducing yourself as a massage therapist, and the potential responses is like, oh, like, you know, and we know what the Oh means, yeah. So do you have a response to that so that we can again, be standing up for the profession? Yeah?
Um, what are some I'm trying to think offhand, like, I don't know that I have a stock answer for that, but, I mean, I think, you know, well, I'm, I'm a therapeutic massage massage therapist. You know, this is my profession, like I don't, I don't appreciate jokes like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough, yeah.
All right, excellent. And so for therapists who do want to start building safety and physical protection into their practice, how can they, how can they start to develop these skills?
Um, other than, other than signing up for my course,
right? That's pretty much it. That's all. That's all you can do. Yes, that's the only, that's the only option
for my course, which I would love. And they can go on to the massage business mama, and there's a link on there where they could sign up for the course. But other than that, I think you know, there is, there's a book, the gift of fear, by Gavin de Becker that we recommend within our course. And I think one of the big things in that book is developing that intuition around trusting and knowing when someone doesn't have good intentions. And I think so often we are taught in life to disregard our own tuition, and that that's one of the biggest tools that we have to keep ourselves safe. Yeah, I
think that is really important. Again, going back to, like, just wanting to maintain the relation, like, the professional relationship, or like, oh, I can't I this? I'm getting a bad vibe, but at the same time, like, is it going to be weird if I like, end the session, or I'm going to cancel their appointment? Like, you know, these kinds of
and I think sometimes we were scared because we feel like we need the income and and, you know, we sometimes get caught in this starving healer syndrome. But I think it's really important that we step outside that and realize that it doesn't matter if we're not safe and so trusting the universe that it's going to support us, even if we have to make some of those tough calls or choose to end a session early, I don't think we should ever be afraid to end a session early. You know, we shouldn't ever, ever question that if you have that feeling, there's a good reason you're having that feeling. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So
do you also address like, can you teach a separate, separate workshop, or do you have separate information for employers or clinic owners, specifically, who want to bring this into their their treatment space, how they can educate their their team, or do you it's just it really does work for everybody, and then for both the employer and the employee. I mean,
I think, I think it's all encompassing however, I do think it's important as clinic owners to back your staff. And that's probably the biggest message that I would have for for anyone who owns a practice and has people working for them that they have, they always have their staffs back, yeah, because, you know one, you're not going to be able to keep staff if you if you aren't respecting when they say that something doesn't feel right to them. But also, you know, it's, it's just, it's so important for for us to to really trust that if someone feels that intuitive pull, that it's, it's true. Yeah,
absolutely. I mean, I am a clinic owner as well, and I I do tell my team that I do have their support, whether in, you know, in all their situations, and especially in these situations, but we're also independently contracted. So there, there's always that individual responsibility, but I feel like there's a dynamic. There's different clinics that might make you feel like you really are on your own. And then, like you said, there should, but there the clinic owner should always have the the back of the of the team, no matter if you are an independently contracted, you know, practitioner, the where you're working, should, should still support you.
And I think, you know, I early in my career, I worked for places where I did not feel like the owners had my back. And you know, I think if you are a clinic owner having conversations like this, or doing trainings like this, is just going to mean so. Much to your staff to know that that you care more about just the bottom line. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. So what's the vision for, then, the massage therapy industry in terms of prioritizing safety and self defense training and what changes would you like to see? Well,
I'd love to see like you're saying, we don't have to worry about this, right? Wouldn't that be wouldn't that be great? And, I mean, I mean, I think we're making headway, but, you know, I I know there's, there's been a push in different areas where, you know, maybe we just legalized prostitution, so that it is a different thing from massage, so that it's not, it's not getting grouped into that massage category. And, you know, I think something like that, you know, isn't a bad thing to explore. Obviously, I don't have that power, but I would love to be a distinct separation between the two industries. No,
absolutely I can't. I can't speak to it from as with much knowledge either. But there are actually legal massage parlors. Like, there's a certain amount of licenses that you can have to have a be a licensed like massage parlor and and so it is. It is really interesting to have that dynamic. And I feel like there is a place for for that type of work, but it does blur the the lines for what we do.
My feeling is like, why does it have to have the same name? Yep,
true, yep, yep, that's true. And then educating on being a therapeutic massage therapist, you know, versus any other type then, then that is also very important. But yeah, I love, I love everything that you said, and I do hope that people will look into your course, and take this into consideration, especially clinic owners, to to educate their massage therapists and to know that they they have their back. Is there anything else that you it's
meaningful to know that you that you have a clinic owner who's taking these very serious things seriously? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely anything
else that you'd like to add for our conversation today? Allie, I don't think
so. It's been, it's been really fun chatting with you. And, yeah, excellent.
Well, I hope everybody will check out the course. I'll put everything in the show notes, and we'll put the book there in the show notes as well. And you can you want to give your Instagram as well as where else they can find you? Yeah,
so I'm at at the dot massage, dot business. Dot mama,
awesome. Yeah, great. Thank you so much. Allie. All right,