nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Why don't you just love when we get to be the rabid fans on the podcast,
let's just say it's like an alumni reunion. We're here as a reunion today.
Homecoming because we all care about the sector, and I'm not being cheeky, like we truly do care about the sector so deeply. And we're worried about the sector really deeply too. And I think this conversation today is leading into AI week on the podcast. And we have partnered with truly some of the most hardwired, brilliant thought leaders in the space on the fundraising.ai summit, which if you're not registered friends, like stop what you're doing, we know you can multitask and podcast at the same time. Go register this event is free. And it is for the taking it as two days of the most powerhouse amount of speakers just to get you thinking and conversating. And just wrestling with ideas. You don't have to know anything to walk in the door. But we promise you're going to come out with so much more knowledge. But let's talk a little bit about this whole AI discussion. Because Becky and I are the types that typically tap out when we start talking about things that are too tech heavy isn't there right B?
Oh, I'm terrified of it. So and I know I'm going to just look like I know nothing about it. And I bet that's how everybody feels in this moment.
So it's like this is balm to our soul that not only have these brilliant thought leaders gathered, but they're really envisioning a thriving nonprofit sector that not only where we tap AI for its abilities, but we make sure we're centering ethical use of it responsibility inclusivity at its very core, because we know the power to be unleashed is going to create an impact that's not been possible before in this moment. So we're gonna unpack not just what is fundraising, not AI? What does it mean? How do we engage with it? What's the framework we're going to talk at all today? But we've got the three most power half past guests and Becky you got to like introduce these three. They're like are some of our favorite humans.
They are truly like if I were gonna go that question of if you're gonna go on a deserted island, what three people would you take? They just all happen to be here right now. So the first person I want to introduce is my sister from another mister Mallory Erickson. She may be the most frequented podcast guest on our podcast because she is just so knowledgeable and so wise in the way that she approaches our work. She's the founder of the power partners formula, and host of what the fundraising podcast Hello Mallory. Not to be outdone by the incredible Meena Das you know her and love her. She is data intelligence with heart. She is a consultant and founder of namaste data. And y'all she is going to tell you how to humanize your data and why we need to be leaning into this moment. And last but certainly not least, we had Nathan Chapelle, who has also been on the podcast many times, you know him as Mr. Nonprofit AI. He was doing this research long before it was cool. But he's the Senior Vice President at donor search AI. And he is also the author of the generosity crisis, which was the first we're for books, book club book that we all how many times can I say book book book book that we all read and felt changed by so three friends welcome to the podcast. We are overjoyed. You all are back. Let's get into it.
Well, I mean, y'all, I feel like we got a tone set. I mean, how did something like this event? That's gathering 1000s of people globally around this topic? How did it come into focus with Nathan, you got to like kickstart give a little bit of context. Because Becky and I first became aware of this, I would say back in April, around AFP, global there was kind of this gathering of minds that were all sitting there. I remember being in this like, you know, hotel, extra room and being like, what is this? Like? How are we going to move forward? But there was such generosity of heart. There was such open hands that it didn't matter who I worked for what organization though there is this coming together moment to say let's do this together in lockstep? And Nathan, kind of break it down for us what happened at that meeting? And what's happened since then?
Yeah, no, I'm so great. It's so great to be here. Like always a good day when I can look at my calendar and look at who I'm going to be spending time with. And I mean, it's just I just love it and being with Meena and Mallory here, you know, this, this entire effort is a testament to the power of we and our sector. You know, people caring not about what's happening today, but caring about the future and being not just caring but being willing to do something about it. And so, you know, for me, truthfully, the path to that led us to today came out of probably a more selfish moment and back in 2017 when I was just exploring machine learning, I mean, within my job when I was at City of Hope, and, and frankly, the selfish part was like, I was hoping to, like, you know, leverage other people's mistakes so that I didn't have to make the same ones. And so you know, at that time started, like, gathering a list of people, and it grew over time, but it list of around 125 people that were exploring different aspects of AI and fundraising. And, you know, the hope always was like, Well, how do we shorten the learning curve? And how do we, you know, achieve greater results faster. And what I came to understand over a period of time was, it was less about it became less about achieving greater results in shorter period, but really understanding the power of the technology, and you know, and how it can be used for good, but also really recognizing some of the, the, the potential harm that it could do for our sector long term. And so I'll just fast forward to where we're at today. And then punted to Mallory and Meena, but it was kind of a lonely road for several years, like about four or five years where I was like, trying to get people to convene, and to care enough to talk about it. And, you know, stuff just happened. I mean, it was very niche, technical, niche technology in the nonprofit sector for a while. So just not a lot of people cared. And then COVID happened, and even less people cared. And then, you know, fast forward to November of last year, when open AI released ChatGPT, all of a sudden, everyone cared. And, you know, for a number of years, we would gather people, and we would, you know, bribe people to come to AFP ICON and say, Hey, let's talk about this thing. And it was a little bit of like, pulling, you know, like trying to, you know, pull some strings to get people to show up, but this year, you were there, like, it was like, we invited, you know, like 14 people and like 60 people showed up. And, and it was very, very different in the sense of like, this palpable sense of like urgency that oh, my gosh, like something transformative happened like, and we're not prepared, what do we do. And, you know, I think everything that's happened since then, has been a representation of the time that we're living in this unprecedented, overused word, but unprecedented time where this exponential technology is growing faster than our ability to understand it, which is causing the need to like, hey, let's hit the pause button for a second. And let's gather the best minds to learn from each other and hopefully accelerate the learning.
I think I just want to create some space on behalf of the sector on behalf of every mission, who will be impacted by this work. And tell you all thank you. Thank you for I get emotional about this, because I know how much time all of you have sacrificed of your personal time of your personal businesses, because it was that important. And what you have built this framework that you built, I can tell you, when I saw it, I felt myself exhale. Because it felt like we were not only going to be okay, it was that we had so much opportunity and promise if we took this very measured approach. And so I want to talk about how do we think in the future while acting in the now. And I want to just level set and define AI? Like, what is it for all of those who are coming at this with such a beginner's mind, we want you to define this. And we want you to give us some quick examples. And we're likely already relying on AI powered tools without even knowing it. And it's beyond Chat GPT at this point, and and I want you to take and I know Mal, you're so big on this, take the fear out of it, and just educate us so that we can feel
something we have the part all take that or a long time before we even acknowledged or learned to say the terms or what this looks like examples are around us whether we are planning our trip, show movie, anything which is taking and learning our data to find patterns, saying that it can help us on x and y z sons. That is some sort of an algorithm running right there. What right now is happening in the interested in talking is how do we make sure that the data that we are picking up to run through a program to create some output to influence our actions and behaviors that come out of it basically, the entire cycle of creating something out of AI. What do we do with that cycle? How do we use that cycle for good and not just about the end result and outcome but really every step of that cycle right from the data to a program that is going to be used the output that is going to come the interpretations who makes those interpretations? What interpretations comes out of those systems? That whole cycle? I think that's what to me is AI and that's what I'm interested to talk about by being part of this group.
Right If I could add to I think one of the things that for people like me and and I have been around AI for a long time, you know, it used to be that even the term AI was a bit out of, especially with like data scientists, I would hate the like, Don't say that word, you know, it just means everything and nothing. And in so you'd have to describe what type of AI So machine learning or deep learning or natural language processing. But fast forward to now where you've got organizations like open AI, essentially declaring that they invented AI, and they have invented a different type of AI, which we all know is called generative AI. And so I think it's actually created a lot more confusion in the market. I think if you were to survey people in the street today, most people would say, oh, yeah, I know ai ai is Chat GPT And in fact, Chat GPT is not even AI. It's an interface that allows you to use a. So anyway, I think it's just an interesting, important distinction that, you know, right now, there's just a lot of this confusion, I think, in the near future, people understand it a little bit better, and what it is and what it isn't.
Yeah, I mean, I feel that in my own life, too. I mean, when you came on the podcast two years ago, I kind of get those glazed eyes.
100%
Like I don't fully know what, you know, Nathan's talking about or describing. But now that we have these tangible use cases, you're like, oh, my gosh, we need to catch up fast, because and Woodrow Rosenbaum also shared this with us recently of just like, if we don't, this is going to be another one of those inflection points in history where your nonprofit is behind another decade. And it's like, we need to like step in and realize and recognize what this is. So can we talk about what is the role of AI right now, in fundraising today? Like, what is the tools? What are how are people using it? Maybe without even knowing it? And this moment?
You know, what I think is interesting about that question is that I think what it helps do is demystify AI being this thing that we haven't yet dipped our toe in. So I think what's important about that question is that, you know, I think, folks, if they're considering coming to the summit, or getting involved in this in some way, you know, they might be like, Oh, I'm not ready to like, you know, go into AI yet. I'm still trying to get a handle on XY and Z. And I think the really important piece of sort of understanding the scope of AI is recognizing that like, you are using AI. And so you know, I've been in a lot of conversations where, you know, folks think chat GPT is what shifted nonprofits use of AI. I think Canva is what shifted nonprofits use of AI. But, but they don't know that that is AI, right, Grammarly. Like they're all these things that we're using. And but because our framework around AI, I think before this moment was, what are the tools that will help me address this problem I'm facing, it wasn't like, how do I integrate AI into my life? It was like, what are the problems I'm having? What are the tools out there that helped me solve that problem or make that action easier to do? That's where Canva came in. And that's where Grammarly came in. And then since chat GPT exploded, and there's this whole focus on a AI being the solution. Now people are approaching it with this different lens of how can I integrate AI? And it's like, well, why, like, we still want to actually start with like, what's the challenge that you're having? And what are the tools that help you address that challenge? And then yes, of course, understanding the role that AI plays in addressing that is really helpful. And so I don't know Nathan, and Nina, where you want to go from there, but that's sort of like the lens I coming from?
Yeah, I mean, I think what you're describing Mallory is really that the barriers of using AI have been diminished extensively. And so you know, while AI is not new, and even, you know, GPTs and large language models are not new, the barrier to using them, and the accessibility of them is just it's been exponential. And so I think that's where, a few years ago, you felt like, well, this is this weird, mysterious thing that I think is out there. And I know how people are using it, but I can't see it. And I can't use it in really any, you know, effective way. And so that's for me, you know, what has changed so much is with the ease of use, and people now being able to see the clear benefit of like, I have an HR assistant, I have a legal assistant, I have a proofer and a copywriter and like all at my disposal, which for nonprofits that all I've never met a nonprofit that didn't struggle with the need for more resources. It's something that is transformative, right? Like if I was I started my fundraising career. 20 years ago, I'd give my left arm for a Chat GPT back then, like, I mean, I would have crushed it. So you know, at the end of the day, all AI is essentially measured in precision and personalization. And its ability to do that at scale. So I like That's why people get confused about just AI so brought in and confusing, but at its core, it delivers either precision. personalization. And now it can do that at scale through things like Chat GPT, or Claude or Bard or whatever. And the resources that nonprofits have now are just remarkable.
What I'm seeing from a lot of my conversations, and I know, both Nathan and Mallory might have seen this, too. There was this fear. And I feel there was this fear for a long time. I don't understand this term. What is this? I have no idea. Now that we have been talking about this for the last six months more and more and more in our sector a little bit more and more, I would say, you're still not there yet to get deeper into this. I think the fear is slowly shifting into this overwhelm and discomfort like I don't know, we haven't integrated AI into our organization yet. Let's talk about how to integrate AI. And I want to use this platform to say this out loud that we need to be okay, being uncomfortable for a minute, before jumping into say, What are the five things we need right now all the tools, let's get like, add ons and licenses to these five tools and start integrating it because it's going to then become only going to become part of very soon. Part of our Gmail and Outlook and drives. If we want to make this sustainable, we have to be comfortable being uncomfortable a little bit to understand, what is the scope of this conversation? Yes, I want people to start using it, but not get so bogged down by the overwhelm that they feel like they can't take another step in this direction to figure out oh, this is such a big word. What do I do with it? So be uncomfortable for for a while to understand what's the scope of all this? And slowly, intentionally understanding what's your challenge, start bringing in some of these pieces into that words,
Meena Das, I heart you so much like for you to take a pause from this heady discussion. And take us back to mindset work in reorient us is so powerful, because I think that's just human nature. When we are, when we don't know something, it's going to create fear. You know, when we feel unmoored by something that's new, we are going to spiral. And I think as a sector, we're just not prone to be progressive to just put ourselves out there. And I think this invitation that you're gently extending to everyone is maybe the most powerful part of this conversation, which is, don't war against this Don't, don't run from it. Actually, if you can get in the current of it, and start to get a little curious and start to integrate your understanding, your world is going to shift and your mission is going to shift. And your anxiety is going to shift in in all in positive directions, because you're empowered. And I do want to talk with you all while we have you here about just some of the emerging trends you're seeing in the space, like how are people using this? And how do you first see that intersection of AI and fundraising coming together. And in the near future in interesting ways, I'll just pitch that to the group
I'll actually build upon but you know, is that an in transition in you know, I mean, the way the world is working in this, in the why this tech, technological revolution is so different than any other is that we've never had technology build technology. And so if it feels like it's overwhelming, and it feels like it's so fast it is there's never been technology that builds new technology on its own, you know, in this autonomous way. And it's, it's really that like that recursive self improvement, that it's getting better. It's the reason why people can't explain neural networks is because, essentially, they've taught a computer to teach a computer. And so it just, it's going and it's so fast, and it's going faster than our ability to understand it. And that's again, where I'm highlighting what Meena said, is like, there's there's this really important moment where we have to still compete, because we have to stay relevant, because the world is moving fast. If nonprofits, you know, don't compete, they will be less relevant. But we have to do it in a way that's extremely thoughtful, strategic and responsible. And that's truly the origin of the framework, which is to provide some directional guidance to say, look, really good stuff out there. But we have the chance of screwing it up royally for our entire sector if we don't do it. Well. I mean, we have seen, you know, in specifically fundraising, AI is around fundraising. So like keeping it very narrow there. The reason was, essentially, because fundraising is what powers missions, right? I mean, it really doesn't matter. You know, if you're using AI and your mission to support your mission, it goes back to that, you know, no money, no mission, kind of, you know, catchphrase. And so that was our whole philosophy is like, let's narrow in on this this area, an area that is largely underrepresented in the international scope of like of the economy. And we felt like if we don't do something, and we don't provide directional guidance around responsible use of fundraising, it will be provided to us. And so, you know, we have seen really great examples of people. You've had Gail Roberts before, I think and like Larkin Street using GPT, almost out of the gate for things. And we have, we've been working in AI for many years, and clients that are developing such level of precision that they would have never been able to before, I think we've only scratched the surface, and how nonprofits really will be able to use this technology in the future as the barriers for entry become less, because the cost becomes less the tools become more accessible. This is the point and I think everyone's highlighting this, this is a point where you have to lean in you putting your head in the sand will will not help you in the future. In fact, it will have the opposite effect and lean in. But to Meena's point, be responsible and thoughtful about what you're choosing to do. And what's unique about our sector is ask everyone ask everyone around I think, you know, the summit is a great example of, you know, 30 different speakers all coming from different levels of like expert to brand newbie, and providing, you know, content out there that we can all learn from each other from
One just one tiny thing that I'll say that also, you know, I think goes to the summit piece, too, is like, one of my hopes is that this starts a trend around more vulnerability around what we don't know, and and curiosity together to explore those themes. Because, you know, the summit has two primary tracks a practitioner track for nonprofit professionals and people using the AI tech, but it also has a platform track and Nathan was alluding to this before to like we're seeing a lot of questions from platforms about how they should be thinking about integrating AI into their tech. And I think that level of vulnerability a lot. We see so much perfectionism and performance in our sector and and I think to have a space to come and say like, wow, this is moving so fast that like there are really no experts here. And everybody is at a different phase of their learning journey, certainly. But there's so much that we all don't know. And we're trying to figure out, I hope that that creates a trend that goes beyond AI in our sector around community learning.
I love that. And now, I mean, you've both alluded to this framework, we've talked about that, that was kind of like the central document that everyone's pouring into. And let me just read some of the headings just to give listeners a scope of what this includes everything from like privacy and security, to inclusiveness and transparency, collaboration, social impact, and social sustainability. So love those headings. And within that there's a lot of like instructive, let's talk about this framework. I mean, first, how did it really come into be? And then how can we use this? You know, what's the takeaway? What do you do with this framework as a practitioner or as a platform?
The framework I is I'm really proud of it is a testament to our sector, and people willing to be unwilling to come together from all areas, competitors, and friends alike to do something for the long term benefit. i It's also the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire career. There's like literally, no doubt if there's one single thing I you know, really grossly underestimated how difficult it would be. It was this and, and not surprising, because when I think back on it, it's like, you're trying to create something that can be internationally accepted. So across borders and cultures, that provides directional guidance to something a better way of doing business. Like, I just, if I thought too much about it, I probably would have never started this endeavor. And Mallory said, like, you know, 93 people ended up jumping in 1700 emails later, lots of phone calls. I mean, Meena is a really big part of it. And where are we in a very collective? You know, this is truly this collective experience where we came together and debated, like, Is this too, too far reaching? Is it too, too loose, and I mean, and, frankly, came up with 10 tenants that we think, you know, represent a lot of other international frameworks, and there's like, 1000 of them. And that's how we started with just reviewing and reviewing and reviewing. And now I sit on an international board for it standards and representing the nonprofit sector in that space. But at the time, the fear was like if we don't create our own framework will be created for us. And that is absolutely 100% true. And it's important to note that like that trust is important to society and large, like people talk about trust in all frameworks. But the way that trust is represented like say, in even the White House and within NIST and aims and other big frameworks that exist. Trust represents two represents around AI serving humanity's greatest interest. That's how it's usually portrayed, which if you think about it relates to Essentially, making sure that robots don't kill people. Like that's, that's the level of trust that the White House is really trying to instill in their framework. And when we think about trust, and we're really when it came to this conclusion, like we have to build our own, because trust is literally the lifeblood of the nonprofit industry, it's it's essentially how there's no nonprofit industry if there's not trust and, and so that's where I think when you know, and Meena was a big part in the very beginning of this, like, when we decided to we have our own framework, we knew that in all aspects that had to prioritize trust. And so it does in in some profound ways, like explainability, which is different in our view, is that there shouldn't be a black box in the nonprofit sector that in the private sector, Netflix and Amazon aren't going to show you their algorithm, because that's our intellectual property. But how do you trust something that you can interrogate? And that you can't explain? And so the biggest nuance that people ask me what the defining characteristic of the fundraising AI framework is that we have a much stronger emphasis on trust. And through those other aspects, of course, ethics, and privacy, and security, and equitability are all important. But that, that explainability, and being able to interrogate and not promote black boxes, is really special. Like it's something that you just don't see in other frameworks.
You guys, you say something like a framework, and I think people just mentally go into a space of like, here's the rubric. And in this is a safe place to land. And so I thank you all for doing that. Because I remember the one question I asked in April, in that first conversation, and it was about, how are we going to make this open source? How are we going to make it accessible from the tiniest nonprofit, to the nonprofit that has endless amounts of resources, and you have built something so accessible, beautiful, and trustworthy? And I just want to know, like, who's killing it right now with this? Who is like kicking butt in the AI world of nonprofit? Can you guys just like shoot some examples of some cool stuff that you've seen that has just really stuck with you and you thought, good on you, let's give some shout outs to some people.
I'm happy to start with a couple. I mean, they're not surprised because I've done a lot of public speaking with him, Jon Thompson at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. I mean, we've done stuff at Amazon and Salesforce and other places. But, you know, what I think is special about it is that Monica's the CDO at CHOP is not a technologist. But she also knows that she knows what happens if she doesn't try new things, right. I mean, the data is pretty, pretty pronounced, it's pretty stark in terms of like, you know, I'll quote the generosity crisis, but the decline in charitable participation. So as a leader who's you know, you know, very, very experienced, not a technologist willing to accept where her limitations are, but to say I'm going to build and empower a team to explore and to, you know, fail fast and try new things, has been, to me, the greatest testament and the end result. I mean, I've been able to work with them for years. And, and for them being, it's that culture mindset of like, you know, being willing to, to adapt and try and test and, and in, invest in philanthropic r&d, that, you know, when the most heartwarming moment for me was hearing a fundraiser for at CHOP had called me one day who 20 year fundraiser, like extremely accomplished, done extremely well called and said, I've closed more gifts faster at a higher average dollar than anytime in my my career. And like, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's my cry moment. Because it's like, it works. Like we know, it works. It's mathematically, but like, it's the end and how it's changed his his confidence of going into meetings. And like, you know, knowing that the AI algorithm did its thing, and by you know, essentially identifying people that that knew him better knew the organization better. So it's, it's really a combination of all the things I mean, the culture. And we have lots of those clients that are just remarkable, but CHOP stands out, and because they're never going to be satisfied, they're always going to be pushing the next to the next thing and the next thing and what's next and being willing to be wrong, and to admit, you know, where they were wrong and be like, we tried this and that was crazy. So we moved over to this and it's just been really rewarding to watch. To see them kind of continue to evolve.
And I'm obsessed with CHOP's marketing. Can I just say that as an aside? It's so great. Fantastic. They do such a good job. What about you, Mal?
Well, so I'm not gonna say the organization's name in this, but, um, but I'll say that, you know, some of the stories that I've been hearing that have been really surprising have actually been about failure, and about how leaders have embraced and accepted and tried again, after trying things that didn't work and yeah, so I've just talking to like the CMO of a organization It is, you know, a very like kind of star child nonprofit, and hearing about a campaign that where they used AI in a way they have never used it before. And it didn't perform the way that they had hoped. And the response from the CEO or Executive Director was, wow, like, we learned so much from this, like, what else? How can we think about using this tool with these changes with these days, and so I think there's like the, the sick, the instant success stories, or the early success stories that are really incredible. But I'm also inspired by the people who are not expecting their first round of anything to go to, like shoot them to the stars, and are embracing the learning that comes with the utilization of new tools, and are iterating and trying from there.
What makes this conversation most accessible? is not their framework being on the website, I mean, yes, it's helping a lot and in this room, but being open, have everybody going and clicking a button, yes. But what makes it most accessible is our own power, our own willingness to engage within our own openness to say, let me try it, if it doesn't work, that's okay, I'm still going to go and talk to this other person about it, that is going to make it most accessible because the language that we have in the framework, it's very vanilla. And it's deliberately intentionally kept at a language which it can be taken and contextualized for our own use cases from where we are coming in. Whether we are regardless of our roles, expertise and interests, we are going to be part of these algorithms more and more. So that framework is really for us to be made our own. So this work of this summit, yes, it's going to be amazing, because I've been part of amazing now and Nathan's team for a long time. But it's only the beginning. This is only the start, what happens after with this framework, when people take that document and say, okay, point number five, seven, and eight. This is what we are seeing from this one tool. And this is how we want to make sure that we are always centering trust and transparency in the work. That is what's going to make it the most accessible. That's what's going to create those winning stories that are sustainable for the long term, to again, create for others to learn from it. So not really giving you examples that just shedding upon.
No, I love that. Yeah, I think it's gonna allow us to dream at a bigger scale to with with creating that new level of accessibility. So I feel like an elephant in the room we haven't talked about is just like some of the ethical concerns. And Meena, you've, you've leaned heavily into this work, you came on to our podcast just specifically to talk about this before, but a lot of leaders listen to this podcast in the social impact space. What are some of the greatest challenges and ethical concerns that we should be attuned to as we start to, like, implement some of these ideologies into our work?
I always come to this question that to two points, Jon, but I want to say, a specific conversation I just had at my recent conference, what came out of the conversation was, again, this How are I asked How are people using AI and some of them raise their hands gave their specific use cases, I'm using it in a campaign dashboard and using it for generating donor communication. One individual said, I'm using it to just bring my board member and have more conversations. I think that was a winning moment for me, for this conversation, just having more conversation. That's it. Because we don't know what questions to ask when it comes to ethics. And it's not just related to technology we are when the word fundraising AI comes up, that the focus the goal, the why is still fundraising, the word fundraising, it hasn't shifted to AI. It's still the word for the reason of the fundraising via here. So we need those conversations to happen, where we can acknowledge together what questions really do ask. And for me, as kind of the status scientists tab comes back to, okay, what data are you bringing back to your AI solutions? What are you using? What are you creating? And then Question two is, whose voice are you centering when you are designing your programs and then interpreting it and then again, creating data out of those interpretations and bringing it back to the system. It's really not a linear chain, it's a cycle. We do some actions that excretes data and feed it back to the system. And if we want to think about ethical concerns, we need to have more conversations to figure it out. How do we center community we need to figure out what data are we feeding and then we need to understand whose voice on the table is the loudest and that's not the only way hopefully that we are centering in our programs.
Can I just have to because it's like it for probably for Meena and I it's the number one question that gets asked, I literally got on a call with someone in Australia yesterday. And without even knowing him, he's like, is this ethical? And I think it's, it's interesting, because when you peel back the onion, of course, it depends on what and how you're using, right? What data are you using? What are you using it for? But I also, you know, ask the question like, Well, how do you fundraise now, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, well, we identified wealthy people, and we convinced them to give Well, where do you get your wealth data from, you know, which is largely representative of older white men, you know, and so, to be honest, I will say that a majority of fundraising practices over the last many years have been unethical. I think AI actually has the ability to become much more ethical by done responsibly by identifying and removing bias from models and being much more holistic than much more precise of just using, you know, people's wealth and so on. But the other aspect of this is, I think that the other question that people should be asking, like, are the things that are ethical but not beneficial? You know, and this goes back to my earliest, you know, experiences of Chat GPT is is sounding authentic, the same as being authentic. We know that Chat GPT can actually and there's cases that I've seen people write here and appeals that have performed better than any appeal they've ever done. And all they did was copy and paste. Maybe that's not unethical, because they're just essentially using a tool to help them write write an appeal. But is it beneficial to the long term viability to our sector? That's a harder question that we have to really think pause now and wrestle with, because I think ethics in some way are more transparent to overcome between, you know, robots and people working together to identify and mitigate bias, but wrestling with the hard things of like, is this ethical, but not beneficial? That takes a harder stance on like, well, what how is my job evaluated? Like, am I motivated to just fill the leaky bucket? Or am I getting paid to protect a vibrant, and philanthropic industry for years to come? Those are really the important questions. I think we have to start really getting into.
Y'all I am show shook right now. I'm not kidding. I am having sort of a reverse existential ism of thinking back to all of those moments of discomfort in my career, where my eyebrow quirked because things didn't feel right. But that was the way they were always done. And I have this question, just pinging around in my brain right now that says, is AI and responsible AI, gonna be the thing that helps us, ethically right the ship, of our work of our practices of the way we value human beings and our time and our pay and our power? I think you are really throwing down a very interesting observation that clearly my nervous system thinks is correct, because I believe that this could be more than an opportunity for integrating your tech or improving your workflows, this could be an opportunity for us to truly get into why the work matters and how we do the work in the ways that we do. So Wow. Thank you so much for that. And I know, we got to create space to talk about the summit. And so I just want to throw it out there. What can we expect at this summit? Give us a couple of highlights, and talk to our listeners just about what they're going to experience and see when they come.
So the summit, as we've been saying is on October 23, and 24th. And we you know, it's interesting, when you put together a virtual summit, I think a lot of virtual summits are designed with the idea that, you know, they want to keep folks engaged for those two days, they want it to feel like sort of an in person at you know, that cohesive in person event where you're going from session to session to session together, because of the level of like complication of this topic. And the fact that we really want the sessions to meet folks where they're at across this wide spectrum, we've actually designed also, all of the sessions are like 20 minute TED Talk style sessions, with five minute q&a Is there will be links to tons of research to take your to take your learning to the next level after that. But we are thinking we're really focusing on the high engagement topics, specific sessions throughout each day, knowing and expecting and actually encouraging that people come to the sessions that are the most relevant to them in the moment that they're in to their positional, you know, leadership inside the organization. So you might come to a session at 9am Monday morning and then the next session you come to might be at 1pm and then the next session you might come to might be the next day At 11am. And so we really want people to like treat this more as a menu than a like I have to take make this two day commitment. I think the agenda and the the narrowing down of topics has been maybe one of the hardest things I've ever done in my career. Because Because every I mean, not just the selection of speakers, which like the the level of wisdom that we have in the speaker lineup for the summit is blowing my mind, I'm so excited to learn from all of these folks. I also think the other thing to know is everything is going to be recorded and available through the original platform for 30 days, then we'll be moved to a resource hub on fundraising AI, we know nonprofit leaders are busy, we understand we are in q4, it felt super important to meet the moment right now because of how quickly AI is moving. But we know that there's a lot going on during those two days. And so we expect this to kickstart our learning to become a hub for our learning. And then you know, I think Nathan can talk more about this piece too. And he can tell you how crazy he thought I was when I first proposed it. But one of the things that's really exciting to me also about the summit, and the sessions are these panels that we've put together, of sponsors sitting together on panels to talk about these really critical topics. And so we have a panel that includes Blackbaud, and Salesforce and Microsoft and Amazon, sitting together to talk about trust and ethics in technology and the role that technology plays in protecting the sector. And when I first said I wanted to do this, you know, I think people thought maybe I was completely off my rocker. But I think it's something that we're incredibly proud of. And Nathan can speak more to this too, because I think this represents this moment that we are in, and how much we all deeply believe that like our our success is tied together. And that and that the urgency and need is greater than ever. And we have to put the the other pieces behind to really provide this sector with the level of education and guidance and support that they deserve. And so that panel is just sort of an example of, I think, the spirit of the entire summit, which is that we really want it to feel like everybody coming together to support the sector at this moment.
I will say there's two things that have made all this possible. And the first was at that coffee meeting in New Orleans when Mallory came up to me completely, you know, and probably regrets every second of that, you know, time is to say, what can I do to help and then then proceeded to text Meena. And, you know, and I guess if you had really asked me in my mind, you know, I was focused on the framework, and that was going to be a big left. And I was thinking, Yeah, let's do a summit and we'll probably have like, I don't I mean, literally, if you'd asked me like, we'd have four six speakers maybe and like it would be a couple hours and panels. And Mallory comes out with this complete, like, you know, big thinking and bet the farm risk taking attitude of like, Let's go bigger, go home. Like I don't want to waste my time on that. Let's talk about scale. And, and, you know, that was that that is ingredient number one. And you know, in when she texted me about I don't know that we could go Mallory when she was like, I don't even know how this got so big. And I like how to call her on her crap because I was like, This is big becuase of you. This is big. If it wasn't me, it was you, and truly like, and I'm so grateful for that. And to which is just a complete shocker and a testament to our sector is that, you know, when we decided to do this, you know, it's like, well, let's raise some money, you know, and and I mean, we got on phones and we started dialing for dollars and literally in four weeks we raised like $300,000 Like it was you know truly like you know Sterrin Bird who you know, at Salesforce saying we want to be the lead sponsor, Debbie Thomas from Microsoft, Kelly Hack from Amazon, Carrie Cobb from Blackbaud, like all of them, like all of them have just like if we don't do this now it will, it won't signify the importance of this moment to our sector. And so they put their money up front, and that just really is a catalyst and inspires so many other people to come along and sponsor. And then they took it to the next level to what Mallory was saying they got on a panel together and it was the same exact attitude. If we don't do this, and do this together, it will it will signify the importance of this moment to our sector. And so we've just seen that throughout all of this, which is truly a testament to our sector being so different than the private sector. And to me, that's got to be the most proud moment of all of it. I mean, Mallory was right like she was right As for we're thinking big and like kind of doing the unconventional and it's worked, and it's, I think, inspired a whole different type and level of cooperation and conversation that we've had. And gosh, like, That's ridiculous. Like, it's just been really awesome to see. It's just like I'm blown away by it.
Who is surprised that the creator of the power partners formula knows how to get partners alligned?
For this way, there's no reason that we should play small with this, it's too damn important for us to play small. And so thank you for being bold. Thank you for being courageous. And thank you to everybody who stepped up to fund it. Because we all know we gotta have funders to be able to source this collect us and socialize this, that's gonna make
it free. And I think we've emphasized that, but this is a free event. So there's no barrier to entry. It's available on demand after before the event. So fundraising dot h, AI slash Summit, go there, register. Okay, y'all, you know how we ran out these podcasts and is hard to stop this community vibe I'm feeling with you guys right now. But I want to run this conversation out with a one good thing. And I'm going to ask it to be in the bent of AI in a sense, because I feel like there's a lot of opportunities in front of us, sometimes we get paralyzed because of the opportunities. But what's an opportunity or one good thing that you could leave with our listeners today about where to lean in on this conversation or a tool or a tip or whatever you got?
Okay, I'll use a tool that I use with other things. But I think, you know, we've talked a lot about the natural overwhelm that folks might be feeling in the fear, they might be feeling and uncertainty and a strategy that I teach a lot around down regulation of the nervous system is just to say to yourself, when you're feeling that level of overwhelm is like, that makes sense. And so I think like, as you move into signing up for the summit, going to the summit, attending a session, whatever it is, and you feel that grumble in your belly, or that drop in your belly, and you feel that, oh, maybe I'm not ready for this, or I don't know enough to learn this, or I'm not good at technology, to just say to yourself, like, it makes sense that you feel nervous and scared and overwhelmed. This is new and scary and overwhelming. And 90% of the people who are going to be in that virtual room with you feel the same way, including me. And so I think just saying like literally using that tool that makes sense. It makes sense. I'm feeling overwhelmed. And I can still do this. And you know, I can still take one step forward. That's my one good thing.
So good. Meena, what have you got? To me?
Anybody who's listening and going to join the summit, obviously, is that you do about two things. And Summit is about two things. One is individual accountability and collective power. So yes, it's going to be very scary. And yes, it's going to be overwhelming, including the speakers, they have come through a journey of trying to explore this topic through different angles. It's not all sessions are going to be the same. But it's about just as individual accountability. What can I do for a future I want to live in? This is one question I want people to explore and answer as they are navigating through different sessions so that you are joining it 9am or all the way up to the end of the sessions. And I just want you to answer this one question. What can I do for a future I want to live in? So that's my one good thing.
Yeah, I'm so grateful to be able to learn from Mallory and Meena. And every time we connect, I get better, you know, my response, because my response now, it'd be very different. I would say, you know, really, it goes back to what they're sharing, but to be vulnerable, and to recognize that you're not alone. And, you know, this was represented to me a few weeks ago, I did a call with the CEO of a CRM company. And, and this conversation was, you know, I feel like I'm losing ground, I don't understand. And the more I don't understand, the more I'm afraid to ask because it feels like I'm even dumber and, and she, she says very vulnerable with me about this. And I'm like, well, let's create some safe space where we can ask any questions. And I think that that vulnerability like it once you realize to Mallory's point like you're not alone, you know, you understand that you have individual accountability to Meena's point is, is that responsible AI is everyone's responsibility is just to show up and to lean in and to be vulnerable, because we know this about our sector, that people have your back that people will be there to help guide you. And so I just think I'm so encouraged by all this and just like people just showing up and leaning in, you know, asking questions, being vulnerable and in recognizing that, you know, you're in good company.
Thank you, for this collective community building this collective learning. You all are powering community, your combat, you're empowering, and we're just so dang proud to be associated with this event and this movement. Let us know how we can help listeners please lean in. It's only going to benefit you and your mission.
Thank you so much friends.
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