riverside_elaine_& krista _ sep 12, 2024 001_radical_massage the
6:02PM Jan 8, 2025
Speakers:
Krista Dicks
Keywords:
massage career benefits
wellness appreciation
acute neck pain
massage therapy career
professional quality
career pivots
skincare business
client rebooking
work-life balance
empath challenges
hydrotherapy benefits
pricing strategies
mentoring new therapists
regulatory body
self-care importance
Hello radical massage therapist, and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast. I'm your host, Krista, registered massage therapist and clinic owner in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Lucky for you, though. I am not the radical massage therapist, but you are. You want to learn more about the benefits of a massage career, such as freedom, flexibility, financial success and fun inside and outside your career. I hope these episodes will inspire you to create a really awesome life around a sustainable massage career. Speaking of radical massage therapists, my guest today is Elaine santilla. Elaine grew up in northern Ontario, surrounded by nature, where her Finnish heritage nurtured her deep appreciation for authentic wellness, from enjoying saunas and swimming at her family's Lakeside cottage to creating natural skin care products, wellness was always a part of her life. In her late teens, after suffering from acute neck pain, she sought help from the only RMT in town, who restored her next mobility and inspired her to pursue a career in massage therapy over the years, Elaine has worked in a variety of settings. CO owned a Wellness Center and taught courses such as heated stone massage to RMTS and estheticians. Since 2010 she has served as an independent contractor for the College of massage therapists of Ontario, the cmto, and mentored other RMTS to navigate this fulfilling profession, passionate about collaboration, Elaine works to unite estheticians and massage therapists, creating a professional quality experience for their shared clientele. Today, she practices in beautiful Huron County, Ontario, where her studio is located on her country property, surrounded by ever changing farm fields. Elaine feels blessed to live and work close to nature, witnessing spectacular sunsets every day. It's not every day that we get to talk to a massage therapist with over three decades of experience, and this conversation is just so lovely to hear her perspective on the massage therapy profession and where she's going with it, and how she's still so passionate about it, but she also wants to assure you that she's definitely not a Pollyanna about massage therapy. Her career has had ups and downs, and this conversation was just so refreshing to hear how during the down times she was able to pivot, and also during the up times. Just how wonderful it is to be in this profession. I hope you enjoy this episode with Elaine, I feel that anybody in the profession can get something valuable from this episode.
Elaine, welcome to the radical massage therapist podcast.
Thank you. Krista, it's great to be here. Oh,
I'm very excited to have you here after approaching 32 years in practice. Yeah,
this coming october 2024 it will be 32 years. That surprises me, because it's gone by in a flash. And yeah, I've stuck to it for 32 years and loved every moment of it. It's all hasn't been perfect, but I've, it's been one of the best careers that I could probably think of.
What were some of your options 32 years ago that you were considering? Well,
I actually, I'd always been involved in the, I'll say the wellness industry for instead of saying the beauty industry, but I'd always been kind of involved in that, and that was an interest interest of mine. I grew up in northern Ontario from a Finnish Finland background, my, my that was my, my heritage. And we always kind of loved nature and natural elements and natural healing. And I think that just kind of is ingrained in me. But in 1990 Oh, probably the late 80s, I actually hurt my neck, and at that time in Sudbury, there was only one massage therapist, one, and I'd seen a chiropractor, I'd seen a few things, and I just couldn't get this thing to move. It was pretty much torticollis. And I went to see a massage therapist. And within the first appointment I had, you know, 50% back range of motion. And I thought, well, you know, what is this voodoo? Um, flash forward. A few years later, I ended up leaving Sudbury and to Southwestern Ontario, and heard about Darcy lane, which is no longer, no longer alive, but went back to school for massage therapy and haven't looked back. What did,
what did that massage therapist environment look like that that long ago? So
that's the interesting thing. So, you know, I had massage in the spa industry and loved it, loved facial massage, loved all of that, but I always felt there was something more right. So when I walked into her office, it was like an office. I remember sitting at her desk, and she was asking me these questions, which now I realize is more of an assessment and a review of my health history. And then we moved on to. The actual treatment. So I remember walking out and thinking, well, this is, this is legit, you know, it was very, very professional, but yet it was kind of the best of both worlds, yeah, and I'll always remember her name was Irene born. I don't know if she's she's still with us, but I will always remember her. And obviously now there's quite a few massage therapists in northern Ontario and Sudbury. So
right, yeah, that's, that's really interesting. And then so you start your career, and I know we're probably gonna jump around a lot,
probably, yeah,
but what did the what did the early days then look like for you in your practice, when you when you started?
Well, when I first started, you know, I'd always wanted to be in the spa industry, but I didn't get into that right away. In fact, I'd love to tell this little story when we went around the classroom the first week or so, and where does everybody want to work? And I said, a spa, I was literally laughed at, and I mean vocal, vocally laughed at. And one gentleman spoke up and said, What a waste of your education. Why are you even here? And to hear that in the first week of school, I thought, Oh my gosh. Like, what am I doing? I want, I want to be a professional. I want those letters R and T, and maybe I shouldn't be here. However, we persevered. But my first job was with a in a clinic in London, Ontario, and I'll be grateful to Angie forever. She gave me my first job, and there was just the two of us. It was a clinic in a medical building, and it was great. I recommend to everybody to get a mentor, even if you're not working directly with them, side by side or in the same clinic. Have someone you can reach out to and talk to that's been around for a little bit, and her and I are still friends, and she's still working. So if I'm at 32 years, she's probably at, I don't know, maybe 3536
so, yeah, that's really cool. Um, I when, when you when everybody's going around the classroom saying, like, where do you want to work? I don't think any of us, truthfully, know. I mean, it's great that you had a response to say spa. But when I got into massage school, I might have had an idea where, you know, maybe it was clinical, probably in my mind. But once I was even halfway through school, I was like, the possibilities are endless, and like, we can go anywhere.
Absolutely, I have a phrase, have hands will travel. And I've said that forever, because my my career has taken me. It's evolved with my life. It's fit into my life. I don't fit my job or my life into my massage therapy career. I have my hands. They come with me if I need to change things as as my life goes on and it's transpired, I've done that and I've been grateful for it. So there's, it's endless, like you said, Yeah.
And do you want to jump into how you have had to adapt? And yes, like, how your your practice did slightly pivot at a sort of a moment for you.
Um, there's been a few times, um, you know, I started this career when I was 23 I believe, almost turning 24 and I did move from the clinic into Toronto, into a spa, spa based business, which I loved. And I stayed in that for quite a few years, and then, as I met my husband, you know, we were together, and I worked at another clinic, and then I opened up a clinic with another colleague, and we rented out two rooms to other other practitioners, and that was great. And as my daughter, I was pregnant with my daughter, I decided to move home. It just seemed to be the right fit for me. And I worked quite, quite a bit at home in Waterloo, back to London. We went again work from home. And then, you know, being at home can be a little bit lonely sometimes. And my mother passed away in 2013 and I just thought, I need to get out of the house a little bit and found an awesome clinic in London. It was a short five minute drive from my home. Worked with some great therapists, yeah, until I moved here. Now I'm in Huron County, in a on a country property, and the clinic that I'm in right now is actually in my garage, which has been professionally renovated. It was a very large garage on the property, and my husband gifted me part of his man cave, as I say, and I will say this is probably the favorite place I've ever, ever worked. So you can adopt, you can change. I had to do some real, real pivoting. In 2020, 23 in March, I fell down my stairs on ice, and it was a moment where, when I look back, I was talking to myself, thinking I should put on different shoes. I put on running shoes. No, I'll be okay. You know, you have that little person talking to on your shoulder. Two steps out the door, and I was down, and I heard an audible, not a snap, a triple click, and I lied there, and I knew, and I knew, and it started flashing forward. I've broken my ankle. I actually broke it in three places, and had had major surgery in London, and then I had to pivot. I knew I was out of work. There was no way I could stand I was not even allowed to put a toe on the ground for at least three months. So I pivoted. And the first thing I did was had a pity party, you know, then got myself back up and said, What am I going to do about this? Well, what you're given in an opportunity like that is the gift of time, fortunate to have a partner who's able to, you know, find help financially sustain us, but it gave me the gift of time, and I decided to reach out to a mentor myself, and I reached out to Margaret Wallace Duffy, who a lot of people know of, and she talked me through a lot of things. We had quite a few sessions together. And she said, What do you love? What? What can you do? And I said, Well, I used to be an esthetician. I love skincare. And next thing you know, I was upgrading all of my skincare techniques, putting a plan together. Got a website. I've always mentored massage therapists who are new or maybe have questions. It was kind of an informal thing, but I thought, why not keep going with that? And so I started doing holistic facials, holistic skin care, some facial cupping, because I knew I wouldn't have to stand as much, and it took off. So I think if you do what you love, or you look back, I will say to people, what did you love doing when you were a child? Did you love reading? Did you love doing crafts? Did you like, you know, skincare, whatever, whatever was your thing, go back to your kind of child self and find something that fits into it. And usually, if you pick something like that, it ends up working for you. And that's what I did until I was back to stand full time again, which I am, thankfully and
but you've also continued to incorporate your skincare business. Absolutely. Wow, absolutely. Can you share how you introduced that aspect of your business to existing massage clients, but also potentially new skincare clients, and how you separate the two
as well? Sure, I started solely putting it out on my Instagram page and Facebook most of my clients, because I had to contact every single one of them instead of had a traumatic injury break when, and they would say, when would you be back? And I'd say, I'll update you. So I just sent out info and said, You know, I won't be back to massage, which will only be part time in September, but in the meantime, this is what I've been doing, if you're interested, and it kind of took off. And my business has always been word of mouth. I still say to anybody that is the best referral you could get is word of mouth. So right now I think maybe it's 20% of my business, which is the skincare, and 80% is therapeutic massage. So I wear two different hats. I make it quite clear if somebody is having a facial, skincare facial after their massage, I basically finish my massage, finish home care, talk to them about everything, and then make it quite clear that we're now moving into the facial aspect of it, two separate receipts are provided. I don't incorporate skin care. Cannot be incorporated into massage therapy. Facial massage manipulations can, however, once you start adding products that have an effect on the skin, or, you know, you're doing exfoliation for a reason and or doing a mask to hydrate the skin that falls under, obviously, a totally different umbrella. So I'm very careful to make sure that the client is aware of everything, and two separate receipts are provided. Yeah, I
love that clarification, because I think a lot of massage therapists myself included, I'm curious about the facial massage manipulation aspect, and also seeing it in the wellness industry, done done by non RMT is certainly qualified, but I feel like it's just one more skill that we already. Have the knowledge for that we can use. And so that's really, really inspiring to to hear how you use it in your business, but also how, like, how we can use it separate, what differentiates it from skincare, like a skincare session, and how we can approach that, like, appropriately in our practice. Yes, with your 32 years in experience now it still sounds like you're quite active, quite hands on. What does the day and a typical like maybe massage work schedule look like for you? So
I take about 10 to 12 clients a week, which is just enough for me right now, and I'm enjoying that my day starts. I usually take a 10 o'clock client, I take a one o'clock client, and then there could be a three o'clock client or something. A little bit later, I only work a couple so called evenings a week, and when I say evening, it's five, 530 you know, I'm I'm fortunate right now, and I realize that that I have the liberty to do that where 2025, years ago, I might not have been. I was taking six, seven clients a day and getting burnt out. Um, I've been able to kind of tailor, tailor make my week to the way I want it. I usually take Fridays off. However, I use that as a floater day. For instance, I had a bunch of personal appointments I had to do. So, you know, I take up slack on it on a different day, take clients on a Friday. So I kind of have a floater day. I don't want to work any more evenings than I do. So I tell new clients, excuse me right away when they call this is what my availability is. I'm available day times, generally, Monday through Thursday, and my evening appointments are very limited, so if they need something after five, 530 unfortunately, I can't accommodate that any anymore. And
what did, what did that transition then look like for you when you decide that you're, you know you're not going to take evenings anymore. Friday is going to be your floater. Obviously, you shared how you're going to approach it with new clients asking for appointments. How did your existing clients respond to that? And how did, how did you help them sort of transition if they needed at a different time.
Well, I moved. We moved to this country property in at the end of 2020, so I really didn't start working. We were doing renovations. I do hold other massage related jobs. So I was doing that filled in at a few places till I had really decided what I wanted to do. So I didn't take my first client here until February of 2022, so I didn't have to kind of talk to clients. I was receiving new clients and kind of letting them not know right from the beginning. It did not take me long to be what I was comfortable being busy with it built up very, very quickly, you know. So I was in a year, and within a year I had fallen down the stairs and broken my ankle. So here I am again, and I'm just as busy as I was before that little accident happened. So I didn't have to transition clients, really, they already knew, because they were all new to begin with,
and you've lived in a couple different places and then worked, you know, had to set up your practice in a couple different places. But yet you're very positive, and it seems to fill up and become busy, just as you want it to, very quickly. Do you have sort of like a little nugget as to feel like, why that that happens? Well,
I was fortunate enough to have some I reached out to other RMTS in the area and introduced myself. And I like to be aware of the other RMTS in the area, and because, in case I need to refer or sometimes you're just not the right fit for someone. And you know what? That's okay. My I've always tried to make people feel comfortable. I spend some time talking with them. I'm pretty intuitive. I can judge someone pretty not judge in a negative way, but get a sense of their what they're feeling before they even get up from the chair in the waiting room, right? Either, oh, this person's going to be nervous, or this person's in a hurry. I can tell already they may be the one that's changing before you even finish talking to them about their health history. So I just try to take a deep breath and remain positive and professional and give them a reason to come back. Knowledge is power. I hear a lot of massage therapists say that my clients aren't rebooking. And the first thing I'll ask is, Well, did you ask them? No? Did you give them a reason to come back? Did you explain why this would benefit through them, which really is called a treatment plan? When you think about it, and even relaxation massage can be part of a treatment plan. I never underestimate the power of a relaxation massage, which kind of gets a negative connotation. I understand that, but if you're treating the effects of stress, and I mean that is massage therapy, we're not treating the mental capacity of it, but we're we're treating the effects, whether that's holding tension in the jaw, holding tension in the face, keeping our shoulders, you know, up and around our ears. If we can treat that, treat headaches, which can be a result of stress or muscle tension, give them a reason to come back knowledge. Knowledge is power, and sometimes they look at it as a luxury, but soon as they they think, oh, you know, this is good for me. This is therapeutic. And you start explaining to them the reasoning behind it. It almost gives them an excuse to say, You know what? This is okay. This is about me. This is about my health, and it's okay to put myself first. It's okay to be selfish sometimes. Yeah,
I definitely agree that some clients do consider it a luxury and and also in in addition to that, sometimes even just like a therapeutic massage as well, they put a financial constraint on it as well, which I feel you have experience with that. Once insurance is done, I'm done with my massages, and then they're kind of like,
it's crazy, but you know, we've kind of forced ourselves into that pocket. What would we all do if insurance didn't cover massage therapy? Boy, we sure would be educating our clients and giving them a reason to come back and treating them with, you know, making sure we we meet the best positive outcome for whatever their treatment plan is. It may get there someday. I mean, it could happen. But, yeah, clients are really wrapped around this insurance number. I've had clients that their insurance has run out. Whether they've retired or they've changed jobs or something's happened, or they've used up all their their money, but they're still coming back. They may not come back as often, but they're still coming back. And to me, that's, that's, that's great. Can
we go back to the rebooking as well? So I mean, it kind of ties in. The obvious question is, are you asking them to rebook? And you're right that it's surprising how many of us are not just asking for it or suggesting it. And I've heard it said beautifully, and from different massage therapists that I'm like, that's a really good, good way to approach it. There's lots of ways that you can say it without just, you know, sounding like, hey, like, are you gonna rebook with me?
Oh, and tell you what I say. Yes. Please do so you know, after giving them the reasoning and why I think they should come back in three weeks or whatever, if it's in even, even if I think they're monthly maintenance, I'll tell them the reason why I think it's monthly maintenance of what is good for them, and talk about the results they've been seeing. So when I'm, you know, we go out to the waiting room, I'll say, I'll give them an option, which is kind of funny. Would you like to reschedule? Or would you like to call or text me? And they'll stop, and they'll say, Oh, well, I'm here now. I might as well just rebook now, because they're going to and they'll say, because I'm going to forget or, you know, and I will stress to them that were coming up to massage therapists, busy time of year, so if they were hoping to get booked, you know, come back in. I am booking four to six weeks out. And they usually book right then and there. Most people are booking on their phones now. They have it with them. It's quick, it's done. They get the reminders, and they're happy. So usually, by the time that date comes along. I'm so glad I rebooked with you. I really needed. I could, I could feel that, you know, the time was coming, yeah,
yeah, exactly.
And if they say, No, that's okay too. Sometimes people say, oh, I'll just call you. I'll just and there could be very, very real reasons for that. I try not to take it personally. Sometimes a client just isn't meant to be with us, and that's okay. That's fine. That's a big thing in this in this job is to not take things personally. My
dogs are barking, so I'm just gonna, I've got it on mute so it didn't, you didn't pick it up.
I'm just gonna take a drink.
Yeah, I agree about the not taking it personally. It's challenging to not take it personally, but at the end of the day, I think with your 32 years of experience, I feel like maybe year 10, if you're not, if you don't have a thicker skin by that point and not taking things personally, I think that might be a key year.
Right? And that you mentioned that year 10, and that was something I've been thinking a lot about. I speak to a lot of massage therapists that say, Well, I'm just trying to do as well as I can, because I know I'm I'm done in five to 10 years. And I think, what? Where is this coming from? And I often hear, Well, my teacher told me that at school, and I'm here to say, Please stop saying that if, if I was in hairdressing school, or, I don't know, you know, something computer related, and the first thing my teacher said was, well, you'll be done in 10 years. I'd be devastated. And I think I'm spending this money. This is, it's an absolute. It's, it's false. For one thing, 32 years, I have people that I know have been longer than 32 years. There may be reasons why people stop after five or 10 years, because it's just might not be the job for them. People change careers. People change their lifestyles. Things happen, and it wasn't what they thought it would be, but this burnout, or physical burnout, which can happen, but it can also be prevented, right? So I hope the teachers start to talk about prevention of that, instead of saying, Well, five to 10 years, that's all you're going to last. It's, it's, it's not fair, and it's not right, is not true, it's a falsehood.
Correct? Yes, we've had many guests, and I have many examples and mentors who have been doing this for for much longer. I'm at almost at 18 years, and I know, you know, it's, it's great. And I unfortunately heard the same sort of statistic early in my days and, and I've had other massage mentors say, Well, why would we invest in a career that's only going to be like, three to five years? Was, I think, the the number like, why would we invest that money, nobody would would do that. So there are various reasons why we leave, but, but it's overall, it's not, not a true statement. And
I think sometimes why therapists leave has nothing to do with the job, themselves, itself. It has to do with some outside maybe a personal situation or something that has come along, but they just cannot focus on, you know, it's a very one on one type of job, which can be a little bit mentally draining. Or if you're an empath and you take on a lot of energies, it can be draining. I've had that happen to me many times. Have I thought over the years I don't want to do this one more day? Yes, I have several times, usually I take a little vacation. It doesn't mean I'm going to Aruba, but it's just taking a week or so to sit back. Think about it. How can I pivot my work? How can I pivot a little bit to make this fit me, not make my job fit into our my life, fit into my career? Sometimes you just need to kind of you can't see the forest for the trees. Take a step back, and I'll tell you, especially after summer holidays, I come back and I can't wait to get back in here. I'm so happy to see my clients. I'm happy to say, oh, you know, I'm doing a facial today, and I'm doing a massage therapy for, you know, lumbar tension, whatever it is at three o'clock, yeah, yeah. It's sometimes you just have to take a step back,
yeah. Well, thank you for being honest, and in 32 years, you have had the thought, I do not want to do this again, and to not sit on the spot, but to, you know, to take a step back and and pivot and re evaluate. I completely agree that when massage therapists do leave for personal reasons, I also feel like there's, there's, they've got work to do on themselves, and they're no matter where they go or what career, wherever they think the grass is greener, it's still not going to be fulfilling for them. Because there's, there's still some self work that needs to be done.
I totally agree. And I think a lot of new therapists, before they come out of school. They're all already panicking where they're going to work, because they hear their friends say, Well, I have, I have a job lined up at the Chiropractic Clinic, and I'm going here, and I'm opening up my own don't worry about it. I say focus on just focus on getting through you can have a loose plan. I always love to have a loose plan that gives you some flexibility and chance to pivot, but don't worry about what everybody else does. You may change. You may think you want to work in a sports clinic, and you start working and think this is nothing what it doesn't interest you or me, if it doesn't interest. It interests you and grasp it, and you're only there because you feel this is where I should be. I'm a I'm a therapeutic register massage therapist. Why we're going to be working for a long time? Find something that fits you and your values and your interests. It doesn't matter as long as you're you know, stick and you know, working with the standards of practice, treating clients to the best of the outcome that's expected. Enjoy your job. Don't be stuck somewhere where you feel like you should be, because that's what's expected of you. Take a deep breath.
Take a deep breath for sure, because there is so much flexibility and freedom and in what we do. As you said, you know, have hands will will travel. You're not You're not stuck. If you do decide to work at a spa and you don't love it, it's okay, like move, because massage therapists are in high demand right now, so we're happy to have you anywhere, absolutely.
And I say, you know, some spoke to somebody the other day, and they said they weren't busy. And I was thinking to myself, there's no reason a massage that we're at such in high demand. I ask people to have a heart to heart with themselves. If there's again, are you asking your client to come back? Are you giving them a reason? Um, sometimes it's nice to have a colleague or maybe a friend or someone who's not your client come in and and come into your workspace and kind of do a little mini evaluation. What do you see when you walk in? What? What kind of vibe is this giving? Um, there's a massage therapist for everybody, but there are general things we have to think about or take into consideration. You know, are we? Are we setting out a professional image? The look of my room might not be somewhere where you'd like to work. You know, it might not be everybody's taste, but does it give a professional image? Sure it does. And I think we have to have a heart to heart again. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees, and you just, you know, sometimes you just have to reevaluate and and here's some
truth, I think that is a great take action step. If somebody is not feeling like they are busy right now, or even if you are busy, I think it never hurts to to have sort of that, like, you know, not as it's you, it's a friend or a colleague, but, like, it's almost like a secret shopper to come in, yeah, and really, really have that full experience, from the booking to how, how, what, the where, how they find the location when they come in reception, all of that. I had a treatment. I was off for a week, and, you know, and then I came back and had a treatment the first day that I was I was back and I had it on my like, the treatment room where I'm usually in to share his face, and I was lying on the table. I was like, something feels really uncomfortable. What's happening, and even just the the table that they the table padding for the heat, the heater, was just like, not, it wasn't secure. So it was like, like, halfway off the table. Yes, what the heck is this, you know, like, so I'm glad, like that I had that experience, you know, I as it was when I finished the treatment, I adjusted it on the table, you know, like, I mean, I hadn't been there for a week, so I don't know what the situation was, but it was just like, it could be something so small, like that, that could just irk somebody and and be like, I feel like I'm sliding off the table, and I don't know why. I don't want to go back, go back, right,
right, or looking around the room, and you're looking at the massage therapist oil bottle, and, you know, it's not looking that great. It might not be a big thing to someone, but a, infection control practices, but B, you know, if you're seeing a client of massage therapists, four to five times you come in, you're like, oh, geez, that oil bottles get looking a little bit, you know, but you love the massage. That might be a good enough reason for you not to come back. I think we get so it is a busy job. It is demanding, physically and mentally, especially, like, like I was saying, if you're an empath, so sometimes at the end of the day, you just want to get out, and then you're, you know, some massage therapists blow in 10 minutes before, and they're rushing and they're getting their room ready. Clients sense that. Clients can see that you're rushing around and, oh, they're coming in the back door and you're in the waiting room. Ask yourself, how would this make you feel? Or is that really client centered? Are you really putting the client first? It would turn me off. I may not choose to go back it, because it's it's setting a tone. It's making me feel anxious, and I'm the client, you know. And then. Clients are apologizing. Oh, sorry. Didn't make you rush. No, no, like this is your time, and clients are more savvy. Clients are becoming much more educated on massage therapy and understanding the education that we have behind us. So I think in 32 years, it's changed a lot. Clients are educated, they're knowledgeable. They know what an RMT stands for. So as much as you know there's massage therapists are in demand. Clients do have options, and they may choose to go somewhere else for varying reasons.
Yeah, and everything that you just spoke about is just the massage can be wonderful. The therapist can be a great therapist, but it really does speak to the environment and clients, not only are educating themselves on what massage registered massage therapy is, but that they have choice, because they can go anywhere,
right? Yeah, right, especially if you're in a bigger city or, you know, there's a lot of massage franchises, which I think are great. I know a lot of people don't they. They're not on board with that. I think there's they're great. I don't, I don't, I think they're a great place for a new massage therapist to start working, because they're working with peers and colleagues, and they have that support so but there are, especially in the bigger cities, there's a lot of options. Yeah,
you had mentioned that you do you have mentored new, newer massage therapists as well. What are some of the what's a common question that new massage therapists want to, want to know. So
I was saying sometime, you know, I've, I've read a lot of the social media sites, and people are asking questions where sometimes I'm thinking, this is really easy to look up go on the College website. I always say it's it's right there. Type it in, and it'll pop up. But I can see a lot of people want other aspects, other people's opinions. Well, in the land of social media, doesn't mean those opinions are correct, and they're just opinions, or some of the big can become quite harsh or negative towards the person who's posting. So that's where I come in. If there's basic questions that say client relations. You know, I have a client who's being inappropriate, or I'm not sure how to handle my colleague that I'm working with, this is what's going on, and they're not comfortable posting on social media, even if they're posting anonymously. Those are, those are some of the calls I get. They just want that one on one, someone who's understands the stat standards of practice and the College of massage. They want to make sure they're doing the right thing, but people are really scared to stay strong with their own values and their own standards of practice. It's kind of funny. We're really worried about getting in trouble. I find it interesting, or the client's going to report me or the client, you know, clients are going to tell on me, or what if I do the wrong thing? You know, for it to get to that it have to be something pretty, pretty wrong. So that's where I come in, just the general conversations, or they're starting a home practice, and they want to make sure that it's professional, and they've got all their ducks in a row and everything covered. Where do they even start? Right? Where? Where do they Where do they find things? Where do they order their linens from? I try to just make them feel comfortable. Make sure that they are starting up professionally and and have them feel confident and ready, ready to go.
Yeah, that's great. What's something that you've seen that we're not getting as a as a professional whole, potentially, like, is there something that we are we just are not grasping? I think
the value of our regulatory body, it's disappointing when people don't want to follow the standards of practice. I often wonder, why did you join a regulated practice, you know, health practice, when when you don't want to follow the standards of the practice, or surprises. Why do we have to do this? And I often think, were you not taught? So I'm not going to be mean, but you know, all of the information is out there. One thing I think we're not getting is I hear often the boundaries. People are often surprised that they are crossing boundaries without. Realizing it. It's hard we get. I mean, we get we have clients that we see for years and years. Yes, we're going to know about their daughter's wedding coming up, this and that. But I always say, remember, we're your clients massage therapists. They're not our therapist. So when a client is lying on the table and you're going on and on about everything that's going on with boyfriend or your job or you wish you were busier, and they're kind of held hostage, where are they going to go? They're on your table, they're in a very vulnerable position, and that might be something to think about too. Why? Why are my clients not rebooking, right? Do they do they want to hear or become your your therapist. And it's a slow, it's a slow trickle that this starts to happen. We become more comfortable. We become more Oh, it's just married today. Oh, Mary's my three o'clock. I've seen Mary forever. Hey, Mary, come on, come on in. What's going on? You know, how's your daughter's wedding go? That's fine, but when you start crossing those boundaries and making them become your so called sounding board or therapist, I think that's something that a lot of us are not getting, that's not client centered care. No,
I think that is a great, great point about boundaries and that they are not our therapist. I, you know, 18 years in practice, I've definitely had to reevaluate how, you know, how I was treating that session. When you have somewhat of an expert on the table in some particular topics as well, like it can become you want to learn more, ask them about it, and, and, and so I, you know, I could see that sort of spiraling, and I try to always be the one that speaks second, if there's, if there's ever anything like that. And I've had clients, you know, so chatty in the assessment that I think, Wow, this person's really going to want to talk. Like, we're like, going over time just with the assessment, because they're just, like, just telling me about everything that I think this person's going to want to continue this story. Yes, on the table. I give them a little bit, and they go, I'm not here to talk today, Krista. And I'm like, whoo. Okay. Well, thank you. Like, I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate we got that out of the the way now and and so, yeah,
well, and you have to read, read the room, right? Read the body language. If they're not answering you, that's pretty much a good clue that they're not really here to listen to you anymore. I have to tell you this funny story. It was years ago, and it was New Year's, and I was making, I never make a resolution, but I just make no kind of think of some ideas where I'd like to make some changes, and I thought I am kind of chatty. I think maybe I'll just really refocus on this client centered and not say in the first week, I probably had six people ask me if I was okay, and I'd say, yes, why? Oh, well, you're so quiet. Is everything okay? And that just solidified to me. Like Elaine, you need to rein this in a little bit. I have a kind of a picture on my wall. I don't know if you can see that right there. It's a hummingbird with a hand, and it's on my wall, and I use that kind of as my little focal point. Sometimes, when I glance up and I look, it's like, okay, am I? Am I staying client centered? It's just my little reminder.
Does the image mean something to you, or is it just a nice
picture? It does. Yes, my my mother loved hunting birds, and when I created this clinic, I had a friend's daughter who was great at art. She I told her, I just wanted this one line kind of drawing. So if you look at it, if you unraveled it, it would all just be one string or one line. So it's a hand with a hummingbird. Yeah, that's
beautiful, lovely. Yeah. And you kind of dropped it earlier that. You said, oh, like, I don't know if you'd want to work in my room. I was like, yes, yes, I would like to work in your treatment room. It looks very nice.
Well, it's my little little homage to Finland or, you know, Nordic countries and Northern Ontario, the their ceiling was originally going to be whitewashed, and I knew I wanted light walls, so I thought, I don't know. And my husband said, why don't you just leave it? And I'm telling you, the amount of compliments I get, I get out of it. People love it. And it's just, basically just, yeah, your standard board that you can buy from Home Depot, that's lovely.
Um, you had mentioned that you're an empath, and I know this wasn't necessarily on our, our pre game list, but at the same Can you describe what that's, what that's like as a massage therapist? Sure.
Um, you know, empath is a buzzword these days. It's, especially in the last five years, it's we hear about. It, and I didn't know I was an empath. And I have been since I was probably born at Empath, but looking back at my childhood now, I'm like, Okay, this all makes sense. Um, I think being an empath has positive again. I can sense the energy of someone when they come in, when, you know, I watch their body language, how they walk in, how they're sitting in the chair, if they're filling out a health history, so I can try to get one step ahead to make them feel comfortable and make everything go go smoothly. You know, it's not a controlling thing. It's just more of an understanding and it's, it served me well. It's also served me negatively, where you know, you find out things about clients, or you find out things, or you're you're gaging that something's going on, and you feel it, and you know it. And it's hard to leave that alone at the at the end of the day, I will say, I've hats off to people that work with children or those that are vulnerable, knowing that they have to go home to a home that's probably not the best, because I don't think I could do that. So hats off to those workers. I can think of a time years ago as well, where the client was quiet. Lot of clients are quiet. She was lying prone on the table, and I just kept thinking, something's not right. I could literally feel it. And when I turned her over supine, she burst out crying. And I said, I knew it. I knew it. And she kind of got startled, and I said, she said, How did you know? I said something. I said, Would you like me? You know, would you like some Kleenex or some Kleenex? Would you like me to leave the room for a few minutes and tell you, you know, if you're ready for me to come back in, or would you like me to stay? And she said, can you just leave for a couple minutes? And I said, Sure. And I laughed. And then knocked on the door. Said, Okay, if I come back in. And she said, sure. She said, thank you very much. You know, I just needed to get that out and but boy, did I know it. I felt it. I felt it from the minute she walked in and she didn't say anything, she wasn't really doing anything, but that energy was just it was there. I started getting some Reiki done for myself, and I really found, found that's been helping me too with energy. So I use a lot of hydrotherapy as well. We have a sauna, sauna. There's my finished accent sauna on our property, a wood burning one. And I spend a lot of time in that. I grew up with that, and I believe a lot in hydrotherapy. It's my baby. I love it. So cold therapy, hot therapy. Love it kind of my thing. Think it's great for empaths, for sure. And
why do you feel like it is good for empaths? Because you can adapt to like, because the the hot and the cold, so it teaches your body to, like, adapt to to new situations or feel things. So
I joke that I love going in my sauna, because it's the only place no one can hear me scream. It's the big joke. And my husband says, You're so much nicer when you come out, come out of the sauna. But you know, it's solitude, it's moist heat, traditional, finished sauna, you actually throw water on the rocks to create the steam. Um, it's quiet. It it reduces all the noise around us, right? It allows us to be alone with our thoughts, and that's okay. And I think you know cold hydrotherapy, or even tepid hydrotherapy after is just that, that contrast right away, it kind of shocks the nervous system a little bit, and you do feel relaxed. It's funny, your body feels relaxed, but your mind feels clear and you feel more energized. So it's kind of the best of both worlds. Yeah,
I love that, and I also love how you said you're getting Reiki for yourself, because that was gonna be one of my questions about. So how are you managing? On top of that, hydrotherapy, how do you like, how try to manage, you know, your Empath instincts there and for myself. Early on in in my practice, I decided to do at least level one of Reiki. I ended up with two, but just so that I could learn how to properly ground because I don't think I'm an empath necessarily, but I certainly was taking on some stuff from clients, so I just wanted to to learn how to not yes, you know, receive as much,
yes. And I think I do Reiki. And for me, that alone time, I, like I said, I'm on a country property, and I'll, I'll, I've started a grounding, I guess, and walking barefoot, um. Um, I was having a a laugh because I was thinking back to, you know, when I first started massage school and hydrotherapy, and our teacher had us do walking, which I don't even know if it's a thing anymore, and we walked in the snow and bare feet. We did all sorts of crazy things. But I've been walking in the mornings a little bit, just on my on my property, in the grass, and I love that my alone time. But you know, some people that are empaths, they don't need the alone time. They actually need to re energize themselves refocus. So maybe they go to volleyball, or they do something with other people that just totally takes their mind off, you know, something that's been weighing on them. So to each his own, I personally just need to reduce the noise, be quiet. And I say again, what did you love doing as a child? Did you love reading? Did you love doing crafts? Did you love doing art? Did you love going for drives in the car? You know, whatever it is for you, try to find that again. And I think that's, that's one of the biggest things we can do as an empath,
yeah. I mean, I think it's also one of the biggest things that we can do in our like, in our profession, not not adding it to our profession, but for self care as well. And I'm definitely exploring this in my personal life, and how it rejuvenates me to go into into practice every day. It's it is really, really interesting. And again, as we already mentioned, you know, if there's therapists who are leaving the profession, but they're not doing that self worth, like sometimes, just adding that little bit yes, of what, what lights you up, can make a huge difference in your practice,
and not worrying about what other people think again. So say, you know, I found what interests me being confident in your work. What if you start to see, you know, in three weeks, you've had four pregnant women, and you know what you've been taught in school, but you're not feeling confident, it might start to raise your anxiety and think, oh my gosh, you know, then take a course, if it interests you take it and just think how great it would feel knowing that the next time you're doing prenatal natal massage, you're feeling confident and educated, and you'll probably really start to enjoy it. So find what's interests you, and don't stay in something that doesn't interest you either, find find what, find what speaks to you. Self Care is a big one as well. Like you said, kind of researching that and doing some deep thinking will help. I took a restorative yoga teacher training class A couple months ago. Do I intend to teach restorative? No, but I was interested in it. I had been in some classes, and I thought, well, this is this is my kind of yoga. I love it, and it spoke to me. And in turn, I'm able to use it as home care for my clients, I can instruct them how to do this at you know, to do it at home. Some of them can't do regular stretches and regular, regular yoga. And this is more of a supportive, supportive way for them. And they're loving it.
That's a great addition as well. And like, just for your own self interest, but it's, you know, it is paying off by applying it to your client home care as well. One thing that we mentioned, sort of in our pre conversation that I think would be really beneficial based on your experience and the places that you've you've lived. One One aspect is always pricing in our profession. Can you share a little bit about where, what, what, how you feel about about pricing, demographics, location, all this,
oh, the good old pricing conversation. So, you know, I found pricing is is different. I'm in a smaller community now, a farming, farming community, but I'm also very close to a popular tourist area, so the demographics can shift back and forth. I kind of saw it around and reached out to the other massage therapists to see what they were charging. I don't believe in undercutting. I don't believe that's doing us as massage therapists as a service, and it's not doing the client says it as a service as well, I think. And I also don't believe in overcharging. And I say that where, if you're in a community where you can do that, maybe it's a little bit more affluent, and they were going to come, whether or not they had an insurance, and they're willing to pay Have at it, probably a very, very educated, educated, knowledgeable, amazing massage therapist, and they're making a great career. If I charged, if I charged Exactly. Amounts where I am right now, I probably wouldn't have the regular clientele that I have, and it's not that I'm not worth it. It's not that because I treat all my clients the same. It's not that I'm not worth it, and I don't feel it's a value for myself to charge that much, but I know that my demographics would not suit that. You know, it's not going to fly for me to charge $250 a session here, I'd probably have one client a day. You know, do I believe in working smarter, not harder, sure, but I'm happy with the fees I charge, and I do regularly take a look at them and think about it, and think about my overhead, and, you know, shake the numbers out a little bit. But I think you have to really look at your clientele, and, yeah, what your demographic is for your area. I love
everything that you that you said there about it, because, yeah, the the it's not that you're not worth it. And I love that you said that, because we, you know, we are worth it. But realistically, if the location where you are, if you're looking at the demographics of your clients, it just might not be feasible for them. And that's sort of like, when massage therapist, like, oh, well, if you can't afford it, then, like, you can't then, you know, whatever, like, you can't be my client. And to some degree I, you know, I was like, okay, but like, I I also see the the value in um, and looking at the the location, is it feasible for your client? Like, do you want to be busy? Do you want to contribute to your community? Do you want to use your skills that you you have? Yes. Do you want to
contribute? Do you want to help? You know, a lot of people in my area are self employed. A lot of them are farmers and or there's a lot of self employed people here that don't have any insurance. I won't be charging them $200.02 $50 there's nothing wrong with that. That's not what I'm saying to each his own, but I've had to take a good look at my my demographic, my community, and what can I offer? Because this is a serving profession. We are here to help others. So put yourself into a spa. I mean, I've gone to spas where it's 185 $200 an hour. That's fine, and maybe I'm willing to pay that because I'm on vacation and that's what I'm doing. And have at it. I love the spa industry, and if that's, you know, like, it's different environment, right? Yeah,
I also love that you said, like, undercutting doesn't serve any of us. It also doesn't serve the client. I've just, you know, maybe in the last couple of months, even had an experience where a massage therapist in the neighborhood was going on mat leave. And, you know, that's wonderful. Now they're looking for somebody to just take over their clients in the meantime. Oh, but I've charged this client $70 for like, ever so therefore, will you take them on for $70 and like, you're like you said it's not, you're not helping out the profession. You're not helping out the client either, because that client will never see the value in going to somebody that's more, that's that's
a good point. And you know, we talk a lot about cancelation fees. I do have a policy regarding cancelation fees, but you have to be careful, especially if you're someone who gets a lot of referrals from your current clients. You know you see Mary. Mary comes in and you decide not to charge her a cancelation fee once for whatever reason, and that's your prerogative. Well, maybe Mary referred Jane, and every second or third appointment Jane is canceling or not showing up, and you start charging her regularly the cancelation well, then Mary and Jane get together on the weekend and have a nice little chat. Well, that's weird. Elaine didn't charge me. Well, why is she charging me? You have to be strong in your boundaries. You have to be strong in your policies, and really think them through. Not charging a cancelation fee is a lot different than decreasing somebody's fee, charting it, giving the reason why, because maybe they do have a hardship or there's an extenuating circumstance that's different, but you can't start playing fast and loose with your policies. It just doesn't work. Clients chat, people chat, especially in the smaller communities.
That's a really great point. And thank you for for sharing that as you shared that you have a beautiful property out in like the country, and you've got your beautiful studio there out near the man cave, but in The Man Cave, yeah, in The Man Cave, how? Um, can you, I connected with you originally and and, can you, are you able to sort of share, maybe the potential, or what was your inspiration? Because I saw you that you were going to host a retreat for massage therapists, and I loved this idea self care, you know, getting together with like minded massage therapists. Can you share what was it inspired you to do that? And, and, and then, you know, we can also share like unfortunately, didn't happen, but maybe it'll happen in the future. So
it's something that I've always thought about. And when I got when I approached my 30 years, I kind of wanted to celebrate the profession. I was proud of myself. I'm proud of our profession, and I wanted to celebrate and now that I had this country property, I thought, what a great place. So I started putting the ducks in a row, and I had some guest speakers. Unfortunately, the best laid plans, it did not happen due to some personal deaths and illness in my family, and I just figured, with the timing, and I was right, the timing would not have been great, so I let it go. Unfortunately, it's still on my radar. I'd love to do it. I don't know if it would still be at my home property, or whether I would consider going somewhere else and organizing it that way. Winter is hard for people to travel, and I think that's a tough one, but possibly in the spring, I'd love to kind of revisit that and do that again, to celebrate the profession, to have fun together. To, you know, have brief discussions, have some people that are knowledgeable on different subjects come in and have a very casual get together. Where we're we're chatting and talking and relaxing and doing things together, not, not a conference like feel to it, but more of a camaraderie. I
look forward to, to, hopefully, that that going through one day. What do you what's some of your exit strategy ideas for the profession,
from me leaving the profession, I think about this, and I have free freedom, 55 coming up in December, and so everybody's laughing that they're excited that I get my shoppers discount, if only there was a shoppers near me. No, if I, I may just cut back my clientele, that's a tough one. It makes me sad to think about. I'm creative by nature. I love writing, I love teaching, I love mentoring. So I think I'll always stay involved somehow in the profession. Now, when I'm 80, I don't know, but I don't have an exit strategy as of yet, pivoting Sure, slowing down a little bit, sure, but I don't have a definite exit Yeah,
as long as you, you know, it sounds like you do have the time, and you're making the time for those things that that do, like, start up so, you know, like, maybe there isn't a reason. You know, for most people, it's work and then fun, like after they retire. So it sounds like you're really integrated. So it's not necessarily to just leave,
right? And I was, it's kind of funny, if I'm I'm one of those people, if I'm working on a day and say, I have a client at 10 and nothing till three o'clock. And my friend said, Would you like to go for lunch today? And I think I can't go for lunch. I'm working. She said, Well, I thought you had a big break. I find it very hard to take that hat off. I'm in freeze mode. I'm trying at this age and stage. We I call it ages and stages, just like toddlers and babyhood and this and that. I'm trying to let go of that a bit and think there again. I'm making I want my job to fit into my life, not vice versa, and going for that lunch and saying, Hey, it's okay. I survived. It sounds so weird, but I have a hard time shifting hats, and I'm trying to let go of that a little bit, because not everybody has that advantage to be able to do that. I am at a point in my life where I can, and I'm trying to embrace it, but old habits die hard. All
right. Well, thank you for sharing how human you are and and I can completely relate. I don't know why, but I would probably have the same reaction. What do you what do you mean? I know I can't go for lunch. I'm working today, even though there's a huge break. You're gonna I'm gonna make it there in time. I'm gonna enjoy my lunch. I'm gonna make it back for the client in time. I don't know why. It is so weird.
I don't think we're the only ones. I think North America, we've kind of it's the work life balance is, I slowly started to see it shift a little bit. But for a while it was work, work, work, work, work, like you're, you're you're not valued if you're not working. And with technology, cell phones, iPad, website. I mean, you can work 24 hours a day, so things have gotten busier, right? I'm trying to talk, I'm trying to take a little step back from that, that all work is not necessary. You know, it's not, it's, it's not a badge of, badge of honor, you know,
yeah, I agree. Um, well, Elaine, I've really enjoyed our conversation. I love your energy. I'm so encouraged by your by your like, by the way that you come at your practice, by the way you live your life. I feel like everybody can make it to three decades and more in this career. Is there anything else that that you'd love to share that was really on your on your heart, to to share with the listeners?
Um, I think the old adage don't sweat the small stuff. I hear a lot of new therapists that they're in school and they're angry about certain things, whether it's it had nothing to do with what they're being taught or how they're being taught. It's other extenuating circumstances where they thinks not fair, or something's happening as they let it go. If it's not affecting your actual schooling, let it go. There's bigger fish to fry, and there'll be lots of things in life coming up to know that you are not stuck in one place. Have a heart to heart with yourself, and know that wherever you work, like I said, as long as you're treating your client to the best of your ability and to the outcome that you're hoping and your treatment plan. It's okay wherever you work. If you want to work in a spa, work in a spa. If you want to work on a cruise ship, work on a cruise ship. If you want to work from home, that's great. Don't worry about what everybody else is doing. Be true to yourself, and you'll get to 3030, plus years.
Great. Thank you, Elaine, you're welcome. So yeah, I look forward to following you and continuing to see how the you know, how you continue to practice into the next maybe 10 years as well. Hope so. But yeah, thank you so much for your time. Thank
you so much for having me and yeah, it's been great. I love talking to peers and colleagues. I think it's, I think it's really important. You