Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the dream biz podcast. This is the podcast where we help you automate, streamline and grow your business so that you can work less, make more money and achieve your full potential. I'm all about making you able to do your things that you love the most, and not worry about the rest. I love bringing experts on occasionally from time to time to help fill in the gaps of the knowledge that I do not know and defer to the expert judgment. And I am super duper excited to have our guest today. And before I introduce our guests, I just want to introduce myself in case this is your first time ever listening to the dream biz podcast. I am your host, Christy Johnson, I am an online business manager, and I'm dedicated to helping you make your dream is a reality without overwhelm. And without stress. You can learn more about that at Kristi Johnson creative.com. And since it's all about making your dream biz a reality, it's fitting that this is called the dream biz podcast. And today on the dream biz Podcast. I'm very, very excited to have Sandra Chow. And I am going to let Sandra introduce herself. Sandra. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
Now, thank you so much, Christine, for having me. So basically, I am a stylist and a creative director at Sandra designs, which is a visual content development studio, based in Sydney, Australia. I'm also the founder of school of visual branding, which specializes in teaching creative entrepreneurs, how to create brands that connect and sell through consistent and elevated visuals. I
love it. I love that so much you are speaking my language, because I love all about connecting. And I love converting we want to get those clients. So I know that as creatives, we can feel like we're really good at putting like visuals together because we're creative, we can do that. And so I but sometimes it gets really like overwhelming and the actual, like, how do I actually make this happen? Or the details of how do I craft my brand in a way that is going to be recognizable to people, be accessible, be like representing my mission and all of those things. And also, I think it's really important as well, that we know what to do. And it's easy, because branding can be something that we talked about all day long. And if we don't actually know how to do it, or what to do it, then it can be overwhelming and difficult to put those pieces together into an actual tangible process. So I would love for you to go a little bit more in depth if you wouldn't mind about what you actually do with your clients and how you help them achieve results. Can you talk a little bit more about your work with your clients? And then we'll talk to the audience about how to create their visual brand and all those good things that you have for us? Yeah,
sure. So basically, with my clients, one of the main things that we do at the studio is designing and strategizing photoshoots for our clients and helping them create mainly photos, but also videos to use for their Instagram, their website, their socials, essentially to sell their offering and their products. I work with a lot of lifestyle brands. Now in the past, we worked with a lot with creative businesses, so like calligraphers, florists, and all the things to put on their brand shoots. And one of the main things that and I think the easiest way to sort of look at it, and in sort of the most simplest way is I always like to ask my clients like, what are like three adjectives that you would use to describe your brand. But when I say describe your brand, it's more thinking about when someone comes to your brand or sees your product, whether it's on Instagram or your website or Pinterest, wherever, how do you want them to feel and describe that kind of feeling. And I like to use those words to anchor a brand. So let's say for example, if someone said their brand is, you know, high end, it's minimal. It's quiet. Those kinds of adjectives would inform how they create their visuals, how they create their photos, the style, essentially of their brand. So on the flip side, if you're if they told me their brand was really happy, joyful and vibrant, automatically, you can already in your mind now see two very different brands, even if they're doing the same thing or selling the same thing or offering the same thing. So I like to always ask them to find really three simple adjectives to anchor their brand through and whenever they're putting together like a photoshoot or even if they're just, you know, taking a few photos on their iPhone of their product or their work for you know, Instagram something, you know, those kind of daily things. Always to ask yourself, do a little bit of a gut check. Hey, you know, those photos that I just put together? That photo that I want to post on Instagram? Is it high end? Does it feel quiet? Is it minimal, and if it's yes, then most likely it is very on brand and kind of cohesive with everything else that you're putting out there. If it's not, or in your gut, you know, you can usually sort of tell like, oh, actually, it doesn't really feel like that it actually feels a bit more, a little bit more cluttered than maybe it's not the right photo. So it's those little simple gut checks, I find that can really help you create that kind of visual brand, that cohesive visual brand that builds a kind of know like, and trust, that gets people to connect with you, that sort of resonates with the right people. Because if, say, for example, you're a calligrapher and you want to work at luxury events, you know, do a lot of brand activation, or your style of designing wedding invitations, is very, that kind of fine art minimal, very luxurious style than the way that you present your brand and put whatever you put out there, you want to reach those people who are going to pay those prices that are wanting that kind of fine art wedding that are going to invest in styling. So you want to make sure that it communicates that represents that. So I'm really all about when you're thinking about your visuals, approaching the bits more strategically in the simplest kind of way, but thinking about using them to communicate and to talk to the right clients and customers that you want to be reaching. Using those kind of visual elements, whether it's your you know, your overall branding, or then all the way down to how you present yourself on Instagram, if that's where you spend most of your time. And then you know, if someone finds you on Instagram, and they're looking at your website, is all of that kind of bolster that follows through. So I always like to use those three adjectives as that kind of gut check all across the brand to create that cohesive, recognizable brand that people kind of see and know like, oh, okay, that's Christie.
Yeah. And we all want that feeling of when someone sees our content, they think, Oh, I know who that is. And that's where the visual branding is such a huge, you know, part of it, like I'm sure we could all think of in our minds like Starbucks screen, or target rat, or whatever. I don't know, I just went to like, corporate big names. But you know, it's Christmas, red and green. So maybe that's swirling around in my brain right now. But I love that so much. And that's such a simple way to be able to feel like does this photo? Or is this shoot going to match what it is that I want to communicate to my clients, and they can help you in the planning process with your photographer as well, to find a photographer that is going to match and align with your brand, like having those things and being able to fully describe those things to the person that you're working with? Because I think a lot of times, you know, we might work with a photographer and think, oh, they have beautiful photos, I like their photos, their style is really great. And that's great. But the question is, will they represent my brand, and you're not going to know that if you don't know what your brand represents, and what kind of people that you want to be speaking to, I would love to go a little bit more into how you can kind of figure out those additives for yourself. And I would love to just hear you explain a little bit more about that. Before we get there. I know I'm long winded. Thank you so much for your patience. One of the things that I do as a systems and operations and liat journey expert is I'm always making sure that we are communicating to your clients in language that they are going to understand. So if you're calling your, your product, or you're offering a super secret thing that is like some industry jargon, and your client doesn't know they're going to be confused, because you're creating confusion on your brand. If they land on your website, and they don't know what you do, and how to get in touch with you and how it will make their life easier in three seconds, they're gonna click off somewhere else. And I know that the words are a big part of it. And so that's why I love working with my clients to help them with the words and the customer journey and the user experience and all that stuff. But even a bigger part of that, I think, is the visuals. So we need both words and visuals because we need people to be drawn in with the words but attracted with the visuals. So what are some ways that you think someone could start to figure out those three adjectives or to figure out because you know, what type of clients they want to attract with their images? And like what is really going to represent their brand, not just them and like what they like, because that's a pretty photo and that's what I think I would like, but like their brand of like speaking to their their ideal clients. Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a whole a big part of it is all about storytelling, right? Storytelling for your brand, and that's kind of the way to one standout. Let's be honest, it's a little bit saturated these days. So if you're able to stand out with your visuals that goes a long way. And personally for me, because I think, you know, when we think of like platforms like Instagram, for example, I like to use it to build connections. So it's really more about building those kind of relationships. And the way to do that is really through storytelling and making it a little bit more personal for you. So you know, if we look at the example of a calligrapher because we're talking about a calligrapher before, your Calligraphy is always going to be different to somebody else's, you know, your story, how you came about to doing calligraphy, or the kind of people you want to work with, that's always going to be different. So there's no one calligrapher that's exactly the same. So I think in order to think about ways to stand out, it's really about sharing that kind of story and that kind of journey as well to through your visuals. And your process is going to be different your tools, all of those visual elements, that sometimes you don't really think about putting out there, those are always going to be different, like your studio is different, your workspace is different. And that's why I like to, you know, thinking about creating visuals, like photos and videos, for example, that really helped people, you know, stop in their tracks, and then read what you have to say like what you were saying with the copy, Christie is thinking about all those elements that you already have that form your style that you don't necessarily think to put out there, a simple snap of your workspace or you a simple video of you, you know, writing and maybe designing an invitation or practicing your calligraphy, writing a place card, or you know, even scripting on like a perfume bottle, all of those kinds of things, that whatever you use for that you're setting for that the environment for it is already going to be different. So you putting it out there already makes it feel like you it already is on brand and that sort of sense. And when we're thinking about like those three adjectives that you were asking about Christy, I just like to one, create a very simple mood board, on Pinterest, you sort of generally have that kind of idea of those adjectives for your brand, like you generally know, like whether your brand is kind of loud, or if it's more quiet, or whether you wants to be more luxury, or maybe more laid back, you know, or whether it's more minimal, or whether it's more, you know, overflowing with items, things like that. So when you put together a Pinterest board, I always like to find, you know, photos that aren't really very specific of that thing. So I wouldn't if I was a calligrapher, I wouldn't be looking for calligraphy photos, I might be looking for photos of spaces or textures that kind of give off that mood, and curate a very small mood born. And then think back to your adjectives again, and ask like, Okay, does this actually feel right, and sometimes the adjectives change, or perhaps the photos change a little bit, and it becomes a little bit more high level and curated. And you'll find that it's something that's really great to just have on reference, that when you're maybe putting together a graphic or something, or putting together a brand guide, or a PDF, or something that you know, for an event or, you know, a price guide to send that to a client, you can always do those kinds of again, those gut checks, looking back at your mood board, like Oh, does that kind of feel like that mood board? Does it kind of represent that visually. And just like I always just like to do those little gut checks, I think to make it sort of that simple in the simplest way possible to ask yourself, whether you're always showing up consistently. And in that kind of manner that really speaks to your brand, or does it feel like me, an example would be like, an, let's just say reels, for example. You know, these days, a lot of people think you kind of got to do something cool, or you got to show up and maybe you know, create something amazing and point and dance or whatever, and let you know, all the different fonts and things sort of come up and the words, but sometimes, like for me, if I started showing up like that, I know my audience would be like, Oh, what's Sandra doing? That doesn't really feel like Sandra. And deep down, I know, when I put it out, they'll be like, Oh, okay, I kind of want to delete that. And those little things already tell me like, okay, that probably means it's not on brand, and it's not going to speak to the people I want to speak to. So let's take it off. Let's not let's try and put something that's a little bit feels more like me. So I'll put on a behind the scenes footage video from a shoot of mine. Without all the bells and whistles. It's like a literal, you know, behind the scenes, pop some music on and then probably what I want to say and then that's enough because and that would speak more to my audience and connect more with my audience.
I love that and that gut check is so important. You mentioned it several times. And I just think that that is a like it sounds so simple, but it literally can be a guiding factor for your business. But you also have to do that beginning piece of curating you mentioned curating. So putting together those adjectives that you want your brand to be, or that you would describe to your brand. If you already have one and you're looking to, to create your put your existing brand out on socials are that type of thing, having those adjectives, and then curating that's such a big idea that is so powerful. I mean, I do that a lot. With when I used to be a wedding photographer, it's like, as simple as deciding which images go on the profile in which ones don't, because I'll take a lot of images, I'm going to take all the images that they want, but not all the images are going to be what are going to attract my ideal client. So I really have to get really specific about what I'm curating and get really detailed, like, if my brand color has a blue in it, I'm going to really show more photos with blue, probably, if my brand is very neutral, and minimal, then I'm probably going to have more like concrete. And those natural reflectors and more whitespace and neg negative space instead of like greenery or bright flowers or the fall colored trees, while beautiful, and I may be taking those photos, when they're requested, I want to make sure that my brand is representing me and my style and the clients that I want to attract. So that then it's like, it's like a loop because the more you put out there, the visuals that are that you curate the visuals that you're putting out there into what asked is the gut check of your additives, and your mood board and all that stuff, then the more you're going to attract those clients that are going to want to already have that. So you'll have to do less work to curate those because like everything will be I remember the first time I got my first like dream wedding client where I was like, I, I felt like I didn't have to work very hard today, because the background was already like the venue was already what I wanted. And everything was so gorgeous, that I could just create and get really, really into it because I had done the work beforehand of curating my visuals, so that I would attract those people. So that was just my like, excitement, rabbit trail, but I stay in that.
And I think Christy, you're absolutely right. Because I think that a big part of it is, it's really tedious in the beginning during that kind of curation. But like you said, what you put out there is what you're going to get back in. So if we take the example of like a wedding photographer, so I sort of started out in the event industry, as well as in weddings as well. But I slowly pivoted out towards brand, and even in that kind of mid pivot sort of stage. To put it most simply, you know, if I kept on putting wedding images out, that's all I'm gonna get back in. So it takes a lot of discipline to actually withhold what you have even visually, and not put something out there than to just put whatever it is that you have out there. And I think all of us kind of reached that point. Even in our branding, you know, brands evolve, like your style and aesthetic evolves over time, especially in those first five years of your business. And a lot of the times, you know, is really about, let's just say I teach a lot of my students to create that one photoshoot that represent their brand that allows them to speak to those ideal clients and customers. And if it's for like a wedding photographer, maybe perhaps you're not really you know, you want to book let's just say those 10k clients, you know, those ones who have having those weddings in the beautiful vineyards, you know, the beautifully styled tablescapes, all the things that you just spoke about. But if the weddings you have in your current portfolio, or from the earlier days where maybe they're not really those lavishly styled weddings, then if you keep putting that out there, you're gonna keep getting those kind of lower price clients, right. But if you can withhold, and take a little bit of time and just go and collaborate on a photoshoot design one that is actually for your brand that speaks to those lavish high end weddings that you eventually want to book and start, you know, curating and putting those kinds of photos out. And if you're consistent with it, you'll actually start seeing those leads come in, that are probably at that higher price point or aren't really going to push back on you or aren't really going to ghost you after you sent them your you know, price guide like we've all been there before. And so, it is really about being strategic with what you put out there. And also what you don't put out there so that you're actually speaking to that particular client and customer that's, you know, got the budget that wants to book you or has the kind of style that you want to work with. It's the same for calligraphers who may be you know, I've worked with a lot of calligraphy calligraphy in the past who are always saying like, Oh, when I list you know, on easy weddings, but you know, they're not really willing They're not really wanting to do custom invites, because people who look on those platforms aren't looking for, you know, that kind of custom high end invitations. So it's really about thinking about what you put out there and where you put out there, and who you're actually speaking to, with what you're putting out there. Yes.
And you said two things that I want to circle back to, you said, you have to develop discipline to withhold certain things. So and then you mentioned consistency. And those are two big pieces that like, as creatives we don't want to do, I don't want to be disciplined. I want to go out and create stuff, I don't want to be consistent. I want to just do whatever my heart desires. So how can we make it easy? And maybe we can tie in this idea of of a really impactful photoshoot? How can we make it easy to develop the discipline and the consistency to put out the visuals that are aligned with the brand that we want to create?
Yeah, like even for me, I always carve out time every year to do personal projects during downtime. So I might go out and collaborate on a photoshoot that's aimed at, let's say, I want to work with the clothing brand, then I'll actually design a shoot around that and do it on a collaborative basis. So I have that content to use when, when I want to start putting out content, in terms of that sort of discipline and consistency. I'm going to talk about Instagram a little bit, because I feel like Instagram, especially these days makes you feel like in order for you to be consistent. It's about putting something out there every day, every hour of the day constantly, you know, like, let's just spam audience. But I always like to think that consistency is whatever is consistent for you. And it has to be sustainable for you, in order for you to actually remain consistent. So you know, if you follow me on Instagram, if you have a look at my Instagram, you'll actually see that I'm, I'm not on there, all day, every day. My consistency is maybe about three posts a week, you know, on the grid, and then sort of more haphazard sort of regular stories, which I like. Because that, you know, you can actually make that a little bit more yours. And it can be a little bit less curated. But I always encourage my students to be like, just find what's consistent for you. Because if you try to show up, like the other person doing the same thing as you who, you know, maybe they have no kids, and they are they love to you know, share every little part of their daily life with people. But if that's not you, you're not going to be able to maintain that consistency. So it's about finding what makes you what's okay with you what's comfortable for you. And then keeping to that, so that it doesn't become a chore and hard work. So therefore you don't do it. It's kind of that sort of cycle ride, when you try to do too much, that doesn't really work for you, you're not going to continue to do it. And that's how I feel with platforms like Instagram with where I'm primarily putting out my visuals and my photos and my videos, if I wanted to. If I had to force myself to show up like the other stylist or educator who's constantly talking to the audience, I'm quite a private person. And that doesn't really sit well with me. So I wouldn't be able to do it am I better keep it up for maybe like two weeks, but then I'll probably burn out and then just not show up for a month on him. So for me, it's really about finding what's consistent for you. And that can look like anything that could be like one post, or maybe just you spend most of your time on stories, or perhaps you'd like to do lives or whatever way is right for you. I think that's kind of the most important thing when it comes to being disciplined and consistent. Because when it feels right, it won't seem like work. And it's almost your discipline, but not really forcing yourself to be disciplined, if that kind of makes sense. Oh,
that makes so much sense. And you're really speaking my language here. Because one of the things that I speak about so often is your business is what you make it and there I love the creative world. Because the truth is, you can make your business what you want it to be. And it's so liberating. I work with a lot of like, people in the corporate world. And a lot of times when you start talking about, oh, do what you want, their eyes just like gloss over and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, this is the plan. This is what you have to do. And this is how you're going to do it to be successful. Like you follow this path and you are successful. But that just has not worked for me in my life. I need to have I need to have those limits. And those constraints was one of the reasons I hired a coach in 2023 Because I know that as a creative person. I need to have those like those boundaries. But it's like those boundaries that are putting that are boundaries that I like, boundaries, that helped me to be the best version of me that I can be. And you said to make it sustainable. And I really think that that's the key there is if you're consistent plan, if your plan to maintain consistency or, or or curate your brand in a disciplined way, if it's not something that is resonating with you, then you're not going to be able to sustain it. So it really goes back to your your adjectives again, like your mission, your vision, your values, and like your like core brand messaging of like what I want to convey how can I make this what I want and be consistent. So I want people as they're listening to this idea of of curation and consistency, I really want people to see it not as a limiting thing, but as something that can actually be very liberating for you, because it's going to enable you to be more aligned with the content that you're putting out and have some easy like, things that you can do to curate your your visual brand. Yeah,
and I mean, just one quick thing, Christy on that as well, too. And you're a systems person, so I think you'll, you'll, this will resonate in the sense that it's really about creating those little habits, I guess, that become that kind of, you know, that helps you maintain that kind of consistency. So as a creative, let's say, an artist, for example, who, you know, has those kind of boundaries, but doesn't want to be limited by it. But a lot of the times you're just painting or you know, you're painting in your studio or creating something, a simple habit that I always encourage my students to be is, whenever you're sitting down to create whatever it is that you're creating, just take your pick your phone up and snap a few photos, or put, you know, put your take, take a simple video and swipe from left to right across, there's a bit of content that's fully on brand, it speaks to your process, it speaks to your story, it's already on brand in terms of aesthetic, because that's your actual, you know, piece of artwork. And, you know, then you can just post it up on the day. One thing that and as a daily practice, almost, you know, artists and, you know, clickers you're always practicing, then it just becomes a habit, you won't even think about it, it's like these days I sit on my computer, if I'm designing a shoot for a client, I pick up my phone, take a few photos, don't even think about it. But that's just a part of my process, it just becomes a part of your process. And the and then it just becomes very consistent for you. And you don't even have to think about it's second nature. I
love that I've been doing that, as well, because I have a social media manager. So she tells me, you know, what I need to do and what I need to give her. And what's great is that I when I build in that habit of of, of filming my work or taking photos or whatever, I have that content that I can pull from, and I'm making sure that it passes my gut check, because sometimes she'll be like, can you do this pointing are this lip syncing and the pointing and the lip syncing is not me. So I will do something different that is me so that I'm staying true to me. But it's still following, you know, the guidelines that she set forth. And we can if you get into that habit, you can repurpose that content too and continue to use it for those days where you're sick, and you don't have the habit or you are, you know, vacationing or traveling or whatever. But that's a conversation for another podcast.
That's a meaty one.
Yeah, um, oh, my goodness. Well, this has been such a great conversation. Is there anything else that you feel like we missed that we really need to cover? And if not, just go ahead and tell people where they can find you online and how they can get in touch with you. Yeah,
absolutely. I mean, the best place would be on Instagram at Sandra child design. I'm always on there sharing tips. And just you know, that's that's where to find me and connect. So you know, feel free to DM me and say hi. And I'd love to chat a little bit more there. Oh,
perfect. Thank you so much. Well, everyone, be sure to give Sandra a follow, I will make sure to put all of her links in the description. So check that out, as well as the show notes. There's going to be a summary and a full transcript if you need to download that. So Sandra, thank you so much for being here. And thanks for joining me bright and early. It is the morning for you in Sydney and it's the evening for me on the east coast of the US. So I really appreciate you starting today with me. Thanks for being here.
No, thank you so much for having me Christy.
Once again, I want to give a big big thank you to Sandra for being on the podcast. Be sure you give her a follow her Instagram again is at Sandra child design. That's at SANDR a si H au design. I'm sure she would love to hear from you over there. And thanks again for listening to the dream biz podcast. We'll see you back next week for another episode.