Okay. Hello, everyone. I'm Edwin Rutsch, Director of the Center for building a culture of empathy. And we're recording this call for transparency and educational purposes. And this is our empathy visioning circle for talking about the 1964 keynotes Road, formerly St. Mary's seminary visioning for what how to develop the property there. I'm we're holding these empathy circles with it with the lope with the Santa Barbara Community just to talk about people's concerns ideas about the property and so we wanted to get started. Just others. Jason, we have one other person joining us.
Oh, there's Jason. Yeah.
So let's see as connecting audio. And so maybe we just get started with participant introduction. So each person introduce yourself, you know, where are you? Where are you where your name, your location, and why you're interested in these visioning circles. And I'll just model it. Edwin Rutsch. I'm Director of the Center for building a culture of empathy. And I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area near Berkeley. And my brother Charles just purchased this property and asked me to help develop it. So that's my interest. Charles, you're gonna introduce yourself.
I live in Carmichael, California, which is next to Sacramento with my wife and four children. I purchased the property online and an auction and my goal with my brother is to create a retreat center.
And Joe, Hi,
I'm Joan and I'm Edwin's partner. And we live in El Cerritos, California. And my interest. I've been kind of a groupie for education and retreat centers for many years. And then an educator and hospitals, infection control and in public health and in schools seventh through 12th grade. And as far as retreat centers, I spent about six months at our salon and then also went to week long and weekend workshops there. And we went to omega in New York, and we spent some time at Mount Madonna. And so I feel like since this is a purchase that is going to be focusing on making at a really good retreat center. I'm excited about contributing a little bit of ideas.
Thanks, Joan. Nicole.
Hi, I'm a Santa Barbara native. I grew up in a house on APs and my mom still lives in town down on Madera. My husband Kevin, and I have kind of the next live to the
east.
I have a background in education. I'm a professor of philosophy at Columbia. And like Joan has spent time at various retreat centers that SLN place called the sanctuary in Thailand. And some ashrams here in New York, also. I think that's
great. Thanks. So welcome for thanks for joining us, Kevin.
Having done really retreats, Nicole has
needed to make sure accessible in the neighborhood.
Alright, thanks, Jason.
You there. Thanks, Jason. My Jason. Hello.
Yeah, I just switched my audio on Jason Joel. I'm in Santa Barbara. I'm interested in retreat centers. I've penned two retreats. And I. Yeah, I mean, it's a discussion. I think we're all interested in retreat center. So
I'll just leave it at that.
Okay, thanks.
So so the core of the set retreat center that we're looking at is to build a more empathic society, which is basically for people to listen to each other. So we want to model that with these empathy circles and I just find that these circles you know, this process is one of the best processes I know for the VA Looking listening skills and for everyone to be able to listen to each other, hear each other and to speak freely. So feel free to say anything, ask any questions like nothing's off the table, you know, just say whatever, whatever you want to express anything that you want. So our topic is What is your vision for developing a retreat center 1964 las connotes Road in Santa Barbara, or whatever is on your mind. So feel free to say whatever you want, we're going to be having four minute turns. And I'm going to be doing the timekeeping. And the process is there's one person that's the speaker, they select who they're going to speak to, you say an idea to, and then you pause the let the listener reflect back their understanding of what you said, you check, do they understand what I'm saying? If they did you continue with what you're saying, if they didn't quite get it, you can say it again. In other words, I'll kind of hold up a little sign of when the time is up, and then just want to wrap up what you were saying. And it becomes the listeners turn to select their, they become the speaker, they select who they're going to speak to just go around for the time allotted, maybe we'll go for about over a little bit over an hour, hour and a half. And then we'll just open it up to general discussion without using reflective listening or active listening. So to model that, see, do I have? Do you have a timer? Charles, perhaps you could keep the time up for that. So four minute turns, and just kind of wave it. So I'll be the first listener, if anybody wants to speak, I just sort of model the reflection. So who'd like to be the first speaker and I'll be your listener?
Okay, I pay well, okay.
Actually, this was bad. I took notes beforehand, because I'm not used to looking at anything. I like to be spontaneous. But now I feel like I better. So I've started out by saying, my major focus is the physical facility. And to change the ambience of
a from a
more, I don't mean this in a really negative way. But it might sound like way more of an institutional look that it has now to more of a feeling about nature. Artistic, spiritual, and so that that is kind of where I've been spending a lot of thought about that. I feel like that's the first challenge.
Okay, so what I'm hearing is that you find it the first challenge. So you move the ambiance from more of a institutional to more of a nature, spiritual quality, and that usually you have your notes at hand and you don't have them quite there.
Now because it also keeps it keeps them more concise. And I feel like what does that do, I mean, it helps the participants to feel more relaxed, more comfortable, really take and part of the retreat center, I found personally is the is the ambiance and being able to just leave the world behind and have this much more comfortable relaxed feeling and get in touch with yourself and others.
Are you really looking at the ambience just so people can feel relaxed, comfortable, have a comfortable, relaxed, detached sort of ambiance, regenerate maybe.
And I think it also helps you to when you do that. It helps you to really generate new ideas and explore new concepts is what I find. And then one of the most enjoyable things besides the interactions that you have with others.
When you have this kind of a comfortable ambiance. It helps you be more creative and make connections with besides make connections with people.
They are good. And now if I have time, I have some suggestions. And I'll start with that and those I really want to look at my notes. So one thing about changing the ambiance to more of a focus on nature. I looked online and some of you that live in Santa Barbara might not know this individual. I found a great website Billy good neck. He is a horticultural architect and in Santa Barbara, and he has an amazing bio. And he was hired by the city for like 20 years to what you see in Santa Barbara, a lot of it, they say as a result of what what he did there. So I feel like he would be a great resource to reach out to. And I'll stop there. And if I have time, I'll continue.
Or you found a resource, a person who has done sort of landscaping design type work that's very done a lot of work in Santa Barbara thought he would be a good person to reach out to,
right. And some of my ideas and add one ally, or both of us talked about these is to have an abundance of drought resistant flowers trellises in front of the building. And green sculpture, like here in San Francisco, if any of you have seen a living wall, I don't know if we could quite do something like that at San Francisco MoMA. But it was really impressive what they you know, did with
the time too, so just so I'll just reflect back. So you're you. You've there's a natural wall that you've seen at MoMA. And so it's just making it more of a natural environment, bringing in more plants and so forth is one idea that you have.
I'll say more later. Thank you.
I'll speak to Nicole then if I may. Yeah, and you're muted. Yeah. So yeah, I'm really glad that you're all here. We've been holding these MPC circles with community members, and so forth. So far, everybody's been very enthusiastic about the sort of productive use of the space because it's been hasn't been really used for quite, quite some time.
So I hear you saying that you're pleased at how the empathy circles have been going and that you're looking forward to making a space productive? That has been somewhat abandoned for a few years?
Yeah, my ears really perked up to and you talked about being a philosophy teacher. So as for ifs are so I was really curious about what kind of philosophy you you teach. And so I had some I just want to put that out there kind of curious about that.
Do you want me to answer the question? Back, you
just reflect back? Yeah.
Okay. Guess you're interested that I'm a philosophy professor.
Yeah. And I'm really looking at like, that's kind of the core of the work that I've been doing for about 15 years is how do we foster more empathy in society. And so as a relationship, you know, creating a philosophy of empathy that, you know, placing empathy as a primary social value, and, you know, you need to build sort of a philosophy around that, to, you know, to bring it into the society more so. Yeah.
So you're interested in bringing more empathy into the world and grounding that philosophical framework?
Yeah. And see what else? Yes, I feel heard. That's all I have to say. So, your turn, just like the listener.
Okay, I guess I'll just keep going around and Charles with my listener, okay. I don't have much to say I think I have some questions and some curiosities. And so I don't know how that will fit into the kind of empathy circle model. But I guess I'll learn
Okay, so you don't have too much to say but you do have questions that you'd like to talk about.
I'm, I think, as a Santa Barbara native, I'm very attached to this area. Some of my best friends live up on Los Angeles and of course we live there. And so I'm interested in being involved in hearing what your your kind of process of arriving at at this property, how you came into it, how you found it. Where else you have done work with creating retreat centers and, and how those have gone and what those look like.
So you're wondering about the process, how I came to purchase it. My experience has been with retreat centers and The goals might be
I think that's really all about all I have to say. Thank you for listening, and
I'll talk to Jason since you haven't participated yet. Okay. So a friend of mine told me the place was going to pay up for auction. He's kind of into real estate. I have some property I'm developing in Crescent City, California. But other than that, I'm not too much into real estate. Okay. When I reflect back,
your your real estate friend told you about the Santa Barbara property, and have somewhat limited experience in real estate, but you have some Crescent property, Crescent City property that you're developing? Yeah.
So as the bidding was gonna start at about 2.9 million, and a website called teknicks. I thought that was a very good price for it, I guess I was thinking, it was kind of nostalgic. I have fond memories of youth camps and my youth
were attracted to the price as well as the nostalgic nature of the property itself.
So I bet a few times and as the price went up, I stopped bidding. But then they said, you know, next bid meets reserve, which was about 7.5 million. So I thought, Okay, I'll do it one more time. And, like, nobody bid higher, so I won the auction.
Nice. You had an exciting bidding process that ended up 7.5 million, congratulations.
So I don't have any experience in running retreat centers. So I've asked my brother to help them I've been very encouraged by the fact that other neighbors very much like the idea for a retreat center.
Okay, you have limited experience in retreats, but your brother has been brought along to help and guide you in this process and you're encouraged by the supportive community.
Yes, one person that's involved that I really appreciate is Kent Ferguson, he started middle school there in Santa Barbara. And he's really done a lot to encourage us and get the ball rolling.
The middle school founder, Kent Ferguson has been particularly a standout for you and helping you through this initial process of discovery.
The previous owner had renovated part of it the faculty part and the sisters residents. But the dormitory still needs renovation, it's been partially demolished. So it needs to be totally renovated.
Some of the property has been worked on and some of it needs more work.
The architect who did the previous work is just about to present a proposal she's been working on for her scope of work and then we'll get that bed and get all the permits. Then began construction on that. Okay, the
existing architect is preparing a scope of work and bid that you will consider
executing them. Okay, and that's my time. So it's your turn Jason. choose who you want to touch
thanks for sharing. Kevin has left I Kevin
is on mute. Morning so
probably not gonna be able to I'm not hearing you. Well, there.
He's I can explain. He's waiting to be picked up at LAX and so he might actually not be the best listener for the next five minutes until he gets on board. We you know, we were trying to juggle some major Travel and logistics here at the moment. So Jason, if you want me to be your listener, I'd be happy to do that. are, you know, we can? Hopefully we can bring Kevin and a little bit when he's a little perspective. Sorry? Sure.
Are we gonna keep going around in a circle? Edwin you described? Yeah,
we go through several rounds. Yeah, we're gonna make for over an hour, hour and a half.
Thanks for offering a call. I'll just go back to Jones. And she started on just go back to Joan. So, try to keep this concise. But So John, I think you articulated a really important focus for the property in thinking about visioning, how the property should feel and present itself to people who experience the property.
Okay, so I think that what I articulate it, about the property and how it should feel is a very important aspect.
Yeah, yeah, I think you have to get that right. No matter how you want to use the property. But I would, I would back up a little bit from there, I tend to think of the end, keep the end in mind, and I can't So depends on if you come from the bottom up with a top down, but I'm more start from the top. So I think about, you know, asking the question, you know, how is this property going to be used? What type of experiences or type of people you're going to attract? That's a question. That's important.
Okay, so your thought is that you like to go from the top up rather than the bottom up? And when you think about it that way, what is most important is exactly how is this going to be used? What kinds of I gather what you mean, like topics and individuals would be coming to the retreat center.
So, right, so then that will inform how you're going to design and present the facility, although you presented your vision.
I think that from there.
The second thing I think about is coming up with a business model, that that will last. So when I think about creating something amazing and beautiful, I think of layers, and you have to have the layer that protects the beauty of the property. So that the business model will sustain itself.
Okay, so your other thought is number two, is okay, this is a business. And so the beauty is important. But you need to find a model that will work to support both the business and beauty of that facility.
Right. So I think I'll keep it at that just kind of taking your thought of how should this property look and feel. And combine that with what type of sustainable business model will stand the test of time, so that this beautiful experience can be enjoyed for a long time. And think about what type of people or customer you expect to have. Because obviously, there's a variety, even within retreats. There are people who don't do Chase, but even with retreats, there's a huge variety.
Okay. might need a little clarification on the last sentence, but, uh, let me see if I got you. So a lot of it depends on who's going to be coming there. And you know, what their interests are. But you're saying some individuals don't gravitate to a retreat kind of environment. And so I gather your thinking you might have other individuals coming, that wouldn't normally be going to this facility as a retreat. Is that right? No, you do.
I was just summarizing, the three of the property will look who the participants will be coming in time. Okay,
so you're just summarizing how the property would look who the prospective purchasers sentence would be. And lastly, the business part of it, okay. Sorry for that confusion on that one. Okay. I guess if we're going around, I'll talk to you again and when
you can mix it up. You don't have to, like the same people but
okay, All right, I'll stick with you for listening. Um, so I think what Jason said, I definitely haven't gotten to that part of my notes yet. I feel like I want to talk about the type of retreats. But right now, that was my thought. And I guess it was an interesting idea that Jason put out that I'm going from the bottom up, but I guess that's how I'm feeling because right now, it's the construction time, it's time to think about how the rooms are going to be used and what it feels like. So I felt like it rather than having a major expense of trying to make the building look like something different. On the outside, I was thinking of a lot of, I think that wouldn't be that expensive. But give it a different feeling than it has right now. Like a school or, or, you know, when I said institution, I don't mean in a negative way.
So you're looking at sort of a bottom up approach, just what can be done to change the ambiance of the of the space to sort of your, you're saying it's institutional. Now, you're not going to denigrate that, but just looking at how to improve the looks.
And I guess I feel like whatever we have there, and I'd like to talk about that later, people appreciate most people do, but that might be seeking out education, nature and are and spirituality. So my second thought was for besides the gar, oh, the garden, I wasn't finished with that, sorry, food that we will be serving there and gardening, I felt like starting an organic garden. And, of course, I'm in Alice Waters territory up here in Berkeley. And she's done amazing things with the schools. And of course, Michelle Obama had the school children coming and working in the garden, I thought, you know, I think it would be good all the way around, perhaps we could get children involved or even adults that are interested in gardening and extend that into cooking classes. And I'll stop there.
So you're just thinking of ideas. They're sort of a bottom up approach you really like the food, organic gardening, organic cooking, you're referencing the shape a nice owner and Michelle Obama back doing gardens are really looking at like setting up some organic gardens
and also being able to start out by having some of the community involved with that that would be interested in it. I thought that would be good. I'm gonna mention something that you mentioned now with the gardening part. And one's idea which I loved for changing the way things look on the outside was terracing. The mountain gradually obviously this is a big deal. But making it look like an Italian at least that's what I picture village or something with layer with terracing, and being able to grow vegetables or our grapes or, you know, foliage down the mountain, and I really liked that idea.
They really liked the idea of maybe doing some terracing and having some gardens in there have sort of a bit of like an Italian feel to it. Right. So you kind of send me excitement about that idea.
Yeah, that whole outside sounded fun. I thought it would add something. Now, I'm gonna move into the arms of
time. I think Charles, you got a fast. Okay. Yeah, I'll speak to Jason. Okay. Yeah, I really appreciate everyone asking questions, because then it gives me something to sort of address and I think Nicole was asking what the process is for, you know, developing the property. So I was gonna maybe address that.
Okay, you're going to appreciate questions and you are going to address some of the development questions that people have.
Yes, so you can start See, this is sort of a spur of the moment kind of this is not like this long, you know, a lot of people have thought about that property for years, Charles sort of picked it up on more of a spur the moment not quite spur the moment, but it wasn't like a long process. So we're. So that's kind of, I think the context.
Okay. So you have somewhat stumbled onto this or spur the moment to use your word, this is not something you've given a lot of thought to.
But it fits within the context of the empathy center that, you know, I found it. And we've been working on that for about 15 years. So you know, our websites, the largest resource for empathy material, so we're bringing that to the, to the whole process of developing the space.
Yes, you feel the MPC empathy circle would be a great fit. And we're at use case for this property.
And the first part is doing what we're doing right now in terms of the process is to bring community together. So it's like being you know, having a space for everyone to be able to listen to each other to express freely their ideas, have these visioning circles to see what emerges, yet to let things sort of bubble up and ideas and to emerge and to include everyone in the in the process.
The Empathy circle has already started in the context of the property, and you're using it right now, to bring the community into the fold. And as part of the discovery process,
discovery is a good term for it, yeah, because it's sort of, if you have an idea for a project you'd like to host here, you know, bring it up in the empathy circle, you can generate ideas and sort of run with it, if there's a workshop, or Jon's liking the idea of gardening, you know, bring your gardening tools, start, you know, setting up the space there. So it is sort of an emergent process.
It's a great process for discovery.
And a lot of people have shared all kinds of ideas for workshops, and is, you know, we have been talking we've had a meeting with Kent Ferguson, just before this, we meet on a regular basis, he's been, you know, sharing ideas. And so it is sort of an emergent process, there's a lot of physical things to be done with the property just to start getting it into shape or working on that part, as well as the these visioning circles is the developing the clear vision and kind of potential projects, workshops that could be held.
Cancer has been a particularly good resource to you, and you continue to get good ideas for from the empathy circle.
And yeah, there is question of the look and feel of the space because it is sort of it has a little bit of a motel field. And I think just driving up, you know, into it feels a bit like a motel, drive up motel. So what can we do to, you know, create a better aesthetics. In terms of background with retreat centers, you know, I lived a year at esslyn. So, I have the background, that's sort of my main background and with retreat centers, and one of the first people we had in a discussion was David Price, who's the son of the founder of esslyn. So he's a friend of ours. So he kind of gave us tips and things like that is a resource too. So kind of esslyn is kind of one of the he does have been director there for about 10 years. Okay.
So David Price of acelin. Where he worked with is also another good resource you found particularly helpful in you also acknowledged the challenge of the motel field of the place, you know, relative to what you know, the question of what what can you do with it to soften it and create a different vibe? Yeah, felt hurt. Thanks. Yep. Yep. Thanks for sharing. Let's circle to, to Nicole. So I will jump in with some of my thoughts and comments in the context of what I've just heard. So I you know, I think of a property like this and I think you have to ask, you know, does your business model generate you know, $2 million $8 million, and you know, that will somewhat inform you of how much you need to spend and and also what type of people you will attract.
So, I hear Jason wondering about the kind of scope of the, the center in terms of income and expenditures and also the kind of targeted clientele
Yeah. And I think then, if it's on the lower end, or even if it's the higher end, you know, then you need to ask, you know, is this going to be a nonprofit or for profit? And where will come from
questions of profitability and and target audiences? Which I'm sure are things that that have been thought about. Yeah. Yeah,
I'm sure. But that's was and then I think, if you're going for the low line, you're set, you're not, you know, not going to spend a ton of money. I think of, well, what are some of the ways that you know, you can be creative, they're so soft, costs are very expensive. So architects are very expensive. So my mind, there are contractors out there that have some design sense that will work with you creatively. And if you can, you know, not spend $100,000 on an architect, and your budget is lower than that's kind of, you know, maybe you have an architect on the side, and you spend 10, or 20 grand as a sounding board, or maybe you have something specific that you need to get really specific, it has to be a good use of their time. But just an idea, and you could generate additional ideas to be creative in trying to lower your cost, if that's the route that you're going.
So Jason has some questions about architects and expenditures in those areas, permitting sort of all of the the nuts and bolts of the process of reshaping the physical plant.
And I think Ken Ferguson might have be a great resource as well, the price because obviously, Aslan has stood the test of time. And the middle school in Santa Barbara is a great school, and they charge a lot of money. So again, you know, where are you are you I think is excellent and nonprofit, I'm not really sure. So those are two different options. And what I was just talking about, but both success stories
are the resources of the people connected to ethylene, and can Ferguson at Santa Barbara Middle School. But, but that those are both relatively pricey places. And so it's that the model that that is being looked at here.
And so that's the high level stuff. And you know, I haven't even touched on any ideas, I think, Joe, and certainly, I've thought about the property and I definitely think a garden would be wonderful. I can see a little quarter acre, you no micro micro farm and be beautiful. You said your connection to nature. I love that because the property isn't nature, and getting people to put their hands in dirt, you know, just gets them connect more connected to nature, and then sit down in the dining hall and eat the food that they've grown. I think that's a holistic experience, a beautiful experience. And you know, you can generate so many more ideas like that. But that that is definitely one that is exciting to me. Time.
Thanks, you've just given reflection and
Oh, okay. The idea of gardening as a piece of a retreat center is is very appealing. And I I guess I can editorialize maybe say a second that
this lecture your listener, Nico.
Let's see, I guess, Edward, do you want to be my listener? Listening? I, I was almost having trouble staying focused on being a listener with Jason because I was in agreement with so many question. And wonderful, but, frankly, a little bit distracting because I just kept wanting to say, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're finding yourself distracted. He's he had so much agreement with what Jason said. So instead of reflecting he just wanted to say yes, yes, what he was saying.
And I guess I'll just kind of echo some of those questions about is is kind of a model for last Kuddos to be like, SLN to be a smaller SLN. What, what are the kinds of people that are are going to be targeted as potential retreaters
So you're wondering if it'll be like mini Aslan and who the audience will be.
Although, of course Isilon, you know, in the last few years has had some funding from from I think it was a big VCP group that bought out a bunch of them. And so that has changed the clientele. Although I'm not sure they changed the feel all that much having been there somewhat recently.
So Aslan has changed perhaps changed a bit because of the funding, some VC have put money into it.
I guess I also just am curious about the restrictions from the city and the county of Santa Barbara, about occupancy, about traffic, about square footage, and an architectural Board of Review. And so I'm just have a lot of curiosity there.
So you have a lot of curiosity about the city planning sounds like the conditional use permit and everything around that.
And then I just have to apologize, because I only blocked out an hour for this. So once we get to two o'clock, I'm going to have to stop.
Okay, so you only have an hour and a half to drop out in about 12 minutes. Feel heard or more?
I do? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
I'll speak to Charles. Yeah, so I dressed the the profit nonprofit. So currently, the property is owned by Charles's LLC. And that's the that's the owner of the property.
So currently, the property is owned by the LLC. And we're
looking to set up by the empathy Center is a nonprofit. So I'm in the process right now of the the setting up the nonprofit have a bunch of resources here, you know, for how to set up the nonprofit kind of just kind of working my head are on that even though my center has been, you know, going for going on 15 years, it hasn't really hasn't been a nonprofit. So we want to scale that up to a nonprofit. And that would be the organization that runs it. And esslyn is a nonprofit to Yeah.
So you're starting a nonprofit that would operate center, you've been operating as kind of a Association for the past 13 years, and you're going to get nonprofit status.
And the idea is that the core of the center is about fostering a culture of empathy. So it's raising the level of empathy. And we've done all kinds of work conflict mediation, all kinds of training, there's videos of us mediating between the political left and right and in, you know, really intense political, you know, rallies, like here in Berkeley and LA, where people are beating each other up, and we go, and we have this empathy tent and offer listening to both sides and offer mediation. So we're sort of building on that foundation.
So the core of your work is building a culture of empathy. And that's what you've been doing for quite a while now. And you've been at protests with your empathy terms, kind of bridging, having both sides talk to each other, and bridging the violence.
And it's the same thing with families, you know, bringing families together to listen to each other, your neighbors, school boards, you name it, you know, it's it's, I really think that mutual listening, which is what empathy is just a deep form of listening is really what bridges divides, brings people together, creates understanding connection and sort of the foundation for any kind of innovation, and creativity. So that's sort of the basic mission philosophy.
So this mission in philosophy is good for families, school boards, cities and communities and
candidates, political candidates get to talk to each other, I ran for Congress, the first thing I did was have brought the candidates together to have an empathy circle, you know, so, so, spread this throughout the culture to raise this level of empathy. So that's kind of the core and on that you know, any kind of workshops whatever can can be added on any topic. So,
so you ran for Congress and you got candidates together. And kind of mutual listening is much trying to promote
and the the all the this conditional use permit. There's a lot of details there. Trying to figure out still I think it's still based on the original 1965 conditional use permit from the city. And, you know, we just we're still studying that trying to get a handle on, you know, what, what that sort of allows and so forth. So, yeah.
So we're still getting a handle on the conditional use permit from the 60s and seeing what that allows as far as renovations and uses. Yeah, I feel hard. Okay. I'll speak to John. So, John, I like your idea about making property more aesthetically pleasing. With plants and other ideas, and thank you for that. Recommendation. That person you mentioned from Santa Barbara. Okay,
good. So you're thanking me for the ideas about the plants and the aesthetics outside and it sounds like you might be interested in looking at that individual.
So I think doing some kind of gardening and work, there would be a good idea.
And you also like the idea of gardening, and sounds like having some community involvement there. That's a good idea.
I know, there are some trails around the property, but they've been overgrown in the past five years or so.
And there are trails there. Rattlesnake Canyon,
just around the property itself.
All right. So you're thinking that needs some work.
To turn,
I do want to say one thing, that's not going to be repeated because Nicole is leaving. And I don't know if this is allowed, but I was afraid to go and I wouldn't be able to ask her. My brother is a philosopher. And Glenn mazes. And his mentor for all these years is add, like Casey, add Casey and Santa Barbara and I thought maybe you had some connection with with either one of them, but I was gonna mention you. Yeah. And were we allowed to say something, we can open
it up. Now. Since leaving, we'll just give it we have five minutes to spare any open discussion?
Okay. Okay. He's an existential philosopher, and he's been at he's, he's actually retired now. And he's trying to enjoy that. But he keeps his hand and Yeah.
Interesting. Yeah. No, I don't know either of those names. My work is in early modern England and France. So Thomas Moore, and Michel de Montaigne. And I did all my teaching at Columbia. For for an all of my, my own academic work.
Okay,
okay. Yeah, he graduated from Yale, but it was a long, long time ago. He's an American. He's an emeritus now, so you're on a different generation, like?
Yeah, and I work on people from many, many, many generations ago.
Okay, yeah. Because what is the school? That is Santa Barbara? I know that Glenn said he had presented there and that that's
the Pacifica Graduate Institute. Yeah, they do mostly psychology. But they have a program in psychology also. Interesting work that they do there.
Yeah. Right. Okay. All right. I'm so sorry, I got off the topic. But I do want to I want to go back to a couple of other ideas so that I wanted to mention and then I also want to address which is and how to say earlier, but I'll finish with the aesthetic part. I know we're
just opening it for general discussion. No more reflection. Okay.
Charles chose me so I'll say something. Okay, the other part was the art part outside. So I was thinking about this are just ideas to throw out. What could you do with the Building without, you know, shifting or changing. And I remember somebody and one of the groups was talking about painting, which I felt like Not, not the brick. But if you had a mural, or a couple of big murals outside that were interesting, and I just so happened on this that I know a really, a, he's a very famous mural as fear, and Berkeley and he's well connected. John Worley. He's done them all over. And they know that are very prominent in San Francisco and all over the United States. I thought that would be quite interesting with the plants and the garden. And then our and then public are, like, having sculpture. And you know, you could even have the plants and sculpture form. So the putting all that around the building. And then lastly, for spiritual. And I know, Charles, you might not like this idea, though, is water is so important, I think for spirituality, and a pool, sauna, or even like what, you know, just having water around. That's what that's what makes excellence so special. And a lot of the retreat centers, not all of them have have water. I don't remember that omega did. But it has a whole different look to it. And it's been building for years and years. So you know, we're not in the same, you know, in the same category.
As you for a minute that, Nicole, if you're needing to leave Mary, just any sort of final comments before you go like how was the circle Any final thoughts? Just,
this was an interesting modality. And thank you for allowing us to join, I think it's something I would probably take into my own classroom in the future. I'm sorry that I that I have to go. But it was lovely to get to meet all of you. And please keep us informed and in the in the digital virtual circle of emails, as the project continues to the forward. Thank you. You're welcome
to join more these are they're open to so any others if you'd like to take part. So yeah. Thanks for joining us. And thank you.
Nice meeting you. Okay,
so yeah, anybody jumped in? We can just chat a little bit here.
His show since turned, I took off quite a bit, I want to get back to your people. Who are you thinking about that?
And you're muted, Jason. Sorry,
Joan, I loved your idea about the art mural. I think that's great. I also personally would paint the building. But I was mentioning to Charles and Edwin at the property that I would look for ways to break up, because it's just a lot of volume of wall. So my idea your idea is better, John, but I think both are good. So I was just saying to change some materials like core 10 steel, is a steel that is very rustic, and organic. And I think the coloration is great textures, great. I think you can use that simply a sheet of it and you just apply it to the wall, you can always remove it later. I think it'd be fast and relatively cheap. I mean, steel is not that cheap, but commodity prices have come down. I think that could be one way but I think your mural also is fantastic. And, you know, I also was thinking some of the bricks that kind of jut out, you could put a little wood box being I mean, just wood versus brick is just so much brick, I think those are pretty, relatively cheap, easy. There's no real construction. I don't even know if you need permits for things like things like this, you just attach your mural to the brick and you make a beautiful painting and how fun would that be to to vision a great painting that would give them a feeling of nature and empathy and compassion and community and connection and I mean to come up with a mural would be so fun and do so much for the property and you know, maybe just between those two brick outcroppings that you know, it's like probably a 30 foot run or 40 foot Ron put the mural right in there or possibly on the church. I don't know I don't know if the church is a huge wall. So yeah, I think That's a great idea.
I like wood. I mean, I think inside that we were talking about that yesterday, and we were looking at somebody's son, I don't know if you looked at it, Charles, a clip from Italy, from a retreat center. And as far as simple furniture, that's what it just it just has a warmth about it, I guess outside, if you don't want to have a lot of it because of fire. I think one of the big advantages of Berkus so far, there's never been a fire problem there. Which is good.
You can do I mean, I, maybe this is a bad idea. But it's amazing. They have composite materials that really do look like wood. Not in their fire. You know, they're completely fire resistant and all that. Yeah, but you bring up a good point with wood being, you know, fire.
Yeah, I'm so happy that
been burned on the brick wall. I mean,
not probably not. And Charles brought up the big problem is getting the bullet brush out of the way. You know, just having a clear space around it, although having water is great, too. Absolutely. And another plug for water.
Swimming Pool, that's three votes. When I when we walked around, we were in the, you know, on the plaza there. And first thing I asked Jason was about a swimming pool. He was like, Yay, are working on Charles for that.
Again, back, you know, it's not necessarily expensive. And where do you put it, I think you know, getting getting good bids, I also would think about going to LA, I have friends that have built swimming pools in Santa Barbara, and spent three $400,000. And I have friends that have spent closer to 100 and $50,000. And it really depends. If you're on grade, and whether you need to dig down, it also depends on your contractor. And you know, this Santa Barbara, contractors are like a little club, you know, they all kind of buddy buddy with each other. And so just be mindful of that if you can find, I actually have a friend who has a beautiful pool in Los Angeles and New newly built in, and she got a great deal on it. So you know, you can save 100,000 Plus, you know, if you choose wisely and still get a great pool. In fact, my friend in Santa Barbara that lives next to me spent more money on what I think is an inferior pool. So, so just price and quality. So I'd say that and then on the pool subject. Okay, so I mentioned Charles and when that I have several ideas, and I'll just share one right now. There's a possibility, it's something that I would explore with the fire department. Okay, getting the fire department on your side is a great idea. And I also think it's great for the community, right, so you're in the back country there. And there is fire risk, I think the property, the cement roof, and the brick, you know, I've read through the property reports and the property itself is very fire resistant, and definitely get the brush back. And that's a fairly easy project. However, around you is fire risk so and that's and that's where the fire department and Cal fire that's, that's their domain, that's where they patrol, they would love you. If they had access to your pool water, right, they come with the helicopter and they would scoop the pool up the water from the pool up in the event of a fire. They would love you for that. And I think that's a great community resilience, resilient message, that you could also market and possibly get concessions. So I think of that road coming up the hill from Los Pinos as should be probably an expense sooner than later. asphalt roads like that, if you let them go and go and go, they get to the point of no return, we have to take it out and start over. Whereas if you maintain them and it's just like a 10 year 20 Year 30 year budgeting item it's possible that the fire department might do a quid pro quo or you might be able to structure some sort of deal where they could pay for re slurring resurfacing of that road and when that'd be an amazing benefit to the property in exchange for you know, their their use of your water. Fire so I think about that it's like it's a win win. I don't know if they couldn't do something like that. But I always think of partnering, you know, this is a way to get something that would benefit you and your asset. And something that can also benefit the fire department and also look good in the community. So win win win. So that's one of my ideas there. And it goes hand in hand with creating a pool.
That's a great thought. And I do like that it's true that you really have to win over the fire department. I mean, I ran a program and a hospital and we worked really closely with them and they have a lot of clout. I was trying to get waterless soap in the hallways way back and you know, before it was popular. They were afraid we would have fires because of that. Alcohol and
wow. Yeah. Yeah.
I think the video is breaking up a little bit.
She's frozen right now.
Yeah, she's she's speaking but are you in the same house? We are. She's downstairs.
I don't know what happened. You're not next.
I have pretty good connects. I'm directly connected to the router. She's on Wi Fi.
I see. Yeah, really.
She's speak I can hear her speaking down. So she doesn't realize or She's frozen.
You want to go bring her up and have her sit next to you? Or
maybe it'll?
You're up. Don't want to show up? Hi. Come up in a sec. Oh, yeah, she's now off.
Why don't we finish?
Oh, yeah. I
internet connection is unstable. That's kind of strange. But so There she comes. Coming back. So you broke up there, Joan. And
I left. I don't know why I haven't extended her on but my Wi Fi just completely went. I don't know why.
We didn't hear what you're saying. I did hear you. The handsoap.
That's where we left?
Oh, okay. No, I was just saying it was a fantastic idea. Because we want one I'm over. And they were it was so helpful, you know, and have them as friends. So I love that idea. Yeah,
it's just worth exploring, you know, would put it on my list. I have some friends in the fire department and one really good friend who just retired last year. He was an engineer at that station. Right here. Station. 15. Right next to me, which might be the serviceable station for your property. Yeah, the
other. The other issue. The other issue, you brought up with some of the clientele, you know that? What is the market? Like we're still Oh, right.
I wanted to talk about
Yeah. Joan, go ahead.
She wants to talk about it.
I mean, I wouldn't even I wouldn't even actually before even going there. I? Well, I think you have to decide. I mean, ultimately, you know, if it's a nonprofit, you know, how are you going to get your nonprofit dollars? You know, that's a question. We talked about this a little bit, Edwin on the property. And, you know, we're going into recession, and you know, people are, you know, a little a little bit tighter with their money. And Santa Barbara already has a lot of nonprofits, so nonprofit dollars in Santa Barbara, you know, is competitive, you know. And, thirdly, I'm on a nonprofit board. So I have been since 2009. So I have some perspective, the, the, the, the missions over time shift. So you know, might be homeless for five years, you know, that it's the arts, it's children in education. So, so the, the, the areas that are best supported, do Shift over, you know, five or five year period, which means within the context of raising money, you might, might be in one period a little bit easier or a little bit more difficult, depending on what category you're in. And that's just a reality. So, within that, you know, I have been this is mostly for Joan, because I think I've shared most of this with Charles and Edwin, you know, I went to my big retreat experience was the Hoffman Institute in Napa Valley. And they attract wealthy they've been around I think since the 70s. Bob Hoffman and they Um, so they have a long term track record like acelin. And they attract a lot of wealthy people, and those alumni give quite a bit of money, they are a nonprofit. They do. It's a nice model, I think it's inclusive, in the sense that, you know, it's $5,200 for a week,
I think. And,
and some percentage of those, say, there's 40 people at a retreat for the week. A couple of people, you know, 10%, for four out of the 40, you know, can receive full or partial scholarship. At the end, the retreat center can offer that because they're nonprofit, they raise money, some of the monies go towards, you know, the facility, you know, and some of them go towards scholarships. So, that's a nice thing to be able to do. It's one model, I think about, you know, what, what is the model?
Right, well, I think it is kind of soon, but I feel like another possibility with nonprofits, and I don't have the business angle that you have anyone have experience with that as grant grants. And Edwin's not going to shift with the under everything, whether it's our spirituality, nature. And I was thinking like, we can offer practical things to start with, like for continuing education courses on day Long's like to start with when you have a facility, and you have a you know, you have educators that want to do that, because nurses, psychologists, teachers, or even physicians, they all need a continuing education unit. So I still have to do that. And I appreciate it. So I felt like an empathy is going to be the underlying principle, no matter what we're doing at the retreat, just like As Salam or omega, or any of the retreats, there is an underlying concept of humanity and coming together. And so we can have CEU courses on that, that could be offered to the different professions. And I feel like you have to kind of scale up, it's a, you know, it's going to take time, but that's something that could be done fairly easily when things are more established without having all the wonderful things that I'm sure Charles Edwin are going to be doing.
That's a really good point. And I agree with it, although, I don't know about fairly easily. I think it's doable, but I think it's a lot of work. And I think, right. So and you need I mean, you nailed it. And Edwin that's so true. You know, these types of services, your empathy, and creating those bridges and connections are, you know, more important than they ever have, they're always important, but in this world that we're living in today, they're so important. And I think a lot of people would see value in them, whether, you know, whether it's teachers or professionals or you name it, but you know, getting in there, and you know, how I was on the PTO of public school in Santa Barbara, you know, and, and a big thing in the last five or 10 years or so is mindfulness, and social emotional behavior, and giving kids the tools that, you know, we didn't have when we were little. And so but but I was in the process of, of, you know, the, the school, they're very, I mean, if a school versus, you know, say a company, Microsoft, whatever, it's a different product, you need to know someone and you know, it's very bureaucratic, it's slow, you know, they need you know, it takes a long time. If you're gonna go to a school for teachers, although teachers certainly need it, to, for them to figure is this something that we want, you know, what kind of curriculum we're going to use, that takes a really long time, probably much faster if you go to a company, but still, you're going to have that process and you're going to need to know someone and once you go there and you if you imagine if you got Microsoft or something like that, then then it would probably scaling would probably be a lot faster. And maybe you already have that at one I have no idea. But that's but there is a huge I believe there's a huge opportunity there. I think the next exercise is to say that this is a challenge and an open question. And I don't have an answer. But, you know, you know, why this property, you know, it's a, it's a world class property. The building, you're right is institutional, if you change the face of it, but but where it is in nature, in the view is world class, you find something, you can go all over the world, and you'd be challenged to find something, you know, how apples and how do you compare something, this is just amazing. That's what this property is. So, you know, I think Dave will soar. So you know, these big summit meetings Camp David, you know, like, you know, you can invite people here to the property, but there needs to be. In other words, you can do an empathy circle, you can rent a space downtown Santa Barbara, for a couple of $1,000 a month, right. And you know, you're doing your work is your work. And I'm sure it's amazing and good work. My point is, why at this property, and so you need to like, you know, it's an expensive property. And, you know, you need to be able to price something to factor in that expense, versus just meeting in a conference room downtown. I don't know, if you get my point.
Yeah, you can do, you can do kind of workshop, just rent the place, you don't have the all the overhead. So how to really use this property, because you know, it's a big expense, and you gotta be able to cover all those expenses. I would add, in terms of the topic I had been in publishing. Previous, I mentioned this before, but it is the trends like they're like you're talking about, with nonprofits, there's different topics, could it be homeless, or, you know, mindfulness was a big trend for a while. So these trends kind of goes to the culture. And I think we're kind of like, set with empathy as the trend, you know, this is like, maybe it'll the culture will come around to this, you know, eventually, you know, it. And, you know, we've had Barack Obama, who's talked about it, you mentioned, Microsoft, you know, the founder of Microsoft has talked extensively about the importance of empathy, you know, for their creativity and design, you know, through human centered design, it's like the core design, you know, value is the first step. So, those are just some, you know, that I just want to throw into the into the mix,
is, if you might, yeah, that's if you can position yourself is something that's not a trend. You know, that's something that's needed all the time. And I was specifically mentioning the trends within nonprofits. But it's the same thing in the corporate world, too. I mean, there are things that get stressed or distressed over time. But yeah, the other thing to think about, is it, you know, you come to like, if you go to Hoffman, you know, there's no real gurus, right, you just, I mean, Bob Hoffman is, I mean, it's named after Hoffman. So he, you know, you think maybe he's a guru, but, you know, you can buy his book and whatnot, but really, you know, there's counselors there, and it's really just a solemn place like a monastery to, to go deep inside and do a lot of work and do do the work, right. So you're not going there to connect with a guru per se. And, you know, some retreats are about that. It's about branding a guru. And that's not necessarily bad. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying that, you know, sometimes you go to a retreat, and it really is centered around a guru. And sometimes you go to retreat, and it's just centered around the work. And I think so I think that's something to differentiate. And not that one is
definitely not a guru thing, we've been to mount Madonna, which is our least going back then it was sort of a guru thing. But this is very much about the empathy work and kind of an open platform for different practices.
All of this, Edwin, but what I'm encouraging you is to, you know, put that into the vibration into the marketing materials into the business plan. So that you know, you probably have that in your head, but whoever is going to the property, it should be very clear to them before they go you know, in testimonials on your website and so that you know, when I'm know nothing about your empathy circle, like the philosopher lady, she didn't seem to know too much about, you know, the property and you and everything. So, so she's brand new, right? So someone like that is like, what am I getting into? What is the empty circle? You know, what is that experience? Like? What's that work? Like? What are the objectives? Why is this good for us? You know, why do I need to go to Santa Barbara, can I just do an online course? Okay, no, I'm gonna go to Santa Barbara because this property is bringing this whole experience and unlike that, yeah, I need to have that excuse. Ariens that's indispensable to be there, to check out to press pause on time to just focus and connect on doing deep work so that I can, if I'm a team, you know, let's say I'm a design team at Apple. All right, so the 20 of us are going to go there. And we all have different personality types. So we need to really build some empathy so we can work better together, right? You know, and we're going to do it in this amazing space so that we can garden together, we can go hiking together, we can not just do Edwin's work, but we can go swimming and watch sunsets and you know, sit by the campfire, listen to music. And all of that probably helps. What I'm saying is one plus one equals three, it helps your empathy circle, even be more successful, because all these environmental situations compound on your work to get even a better result. That's what I think somebody who is, you know, whether it's someone that Microsoft is saying, Hey, should I take my 20 people to Santa Barbara or not? Or, you know, whoever it might be an individual saying, hey, I need a week, they're getting that clear, as a marketing message, right? Because it's, it's marketing, right? Marketing is a thing. I'm not a big marketing guy, by the way, I'm not. But I do think it's important, because that's how people work. Most people, they're like, there's no context like, why do I need to go to Santa Barbara? Why do I need this empathy circle? They want those answers, you know, to be to hit them and say, Yes, get ready,
lay it out clearly, like, what it's about why the vision, some introductory videos, you know, the website, just to introduce people like what, alright, and that's what we're sort of developing here, there is sort of that empathy, and we're also doing the process. And it's more than the empathy circle is just one of many practices. So it's sort of the it's an easy introduction and foundational practice. But there's conflict mediation, you know, personal support, human centered design, if you're familiar design community, we have all those design tools, you know, from IDEO, or Stanford design school, that starts with empathy, right? It's like about listening, and then you kind of take it to the next step. So we have a lot of material, you know, for this kind of this online center, but shifting it now to this physical space, it's a great question, why the physical space versus just doing online, or doing it in, you know, renting a space and holding a workshop. So I think we need to really come up with that, as maybe a whole lived experience and body or embodied experience, they're
all everything I just mentioned, is fantastic work, and there's a huge market for it, and huge demand. And so, you know, the world is your oyster there, I mean, you know, people, you know, so, you know, you go to an Apple design team, or whoever you go to, people would love to have this experience, and, you know, wouldn't be shy and pricing it, you know, reflect your value, if you have all those years of experience in all these different buckets of knowledge. You know, get that out to the world through scale, do it online, you know, do all of it, you know, if you if, you know, if you have the energy for that, if you have the vision for that, to me, it's it's something that world needs and, you know, you know, that needs to be, you know, that's a great place to spend money, really, those all those marketing materials, the website, the videos, having that being professionally shot, and and professionally presented, and laid out logically in a way that's captivating to somebody saying, yes, yes, we know, we need this Edwin's our guy, you know, and Santa Barbara is our place. That's where we're going to go. And that's, that's, that would be money well spent. You know.
I think it can be an underpinning whether you're doing a yoga or dance workshops or art workshops or cooking. I mean, they're, they're all going to, I think the plan is to have it like a regular retreat center. But empathy can be you know, under one of the values that is something that is given thought to and during any of those, you know, experiences. I did want to say one thing that's off the subject that you brought up that just was interesting to me because that's my Heart and Soul with education is emotional social learning, and and children from K to 12. I actually wrote a little book about it, because I felt like people needed to bring that up to the front that kids need it a space for that and not putting any academic credit on it just a pass fail, but a place where they could have a teacher but be responding with their peers. And yet you could find problems before they something happen.
Heck, sorry.
So I was fascinated that you brought that up that your school was talking about it because I did a lot of research on that.
The whole district so Santa Barbara Unified School District has taken on social emotional learning for elementary schools as a progressive place. So even for the Junior High in high school kids, there's a lot of emotional support, like they get they're getting older. And if there's some mental issues, there's a lot of there. It's not a stigma here. It's so my daughter had that social emotional stuff in. She's still in elementary school, but it's great. And there are, boy, there's this lady from Maine dancing jaguars, that's the name of her company. And she does these amazing nature based, spiritually guided, it's a spiritual, it's not Christian. It's spiritual. And I say that earlier, Joan. So she's, I think, was looking for a place in Santa Barbara, but I don't you know, who knows it again, it's one of those things that you could explore. You know, there's people out there already doing a lot of good work in Santa Barbara. If you're looking to connect to the community, you'll find so many so many practitioners here. It's almost overwhelming medical intuitives. I mean, just over the there's so many so bringing, it'll be more filtering down what type of work practitioners would you want on the property. But I wanted to make one point related to what I was saying before, I think that Edwin has all of his work. It's not just empathy circles, it's different buckets of work. And you have these other activities, right? Hiking, biking, whatever. Gardening, okay, cooking, yoga, whatever, right? Meditation, whatever. My opinion, it's your property. I would make sure there's a nice thread through the whole thing. So it feels very holistic and not just okay, we did Edwin work Edwin's work, okay, go play out. I mean, I think like, Okay, we're going to garden why, like, you know, in the context of Edwin's work, gardening is helpful in these ways, right? And meditation is helpful in these ways, right? So you're, you're really integrating the property and integrating the experience, I think that's more powerful for someone visiting the property, rather than saying, I mean, you would never say this, but I'm just saying some some kind of disintegrated, we have 20 different practitioners and someone yoga person comes up, it's like, Okay, let me do let's do yoga together for an hour, right? It just, it's a little more disjointed. And maybe that sounds like a detail, that doesn't matter. But I think it matters to someone that's going there thing is more powerful to say, to someone that's going to spend a week there, and possibly a decent chunk of money there to say, we thought about your whole journey here, you know, all seven days, right? And that you're gonna have a lot of flexibility to do different things. But whatever you do, do, we have you know, we're going to put it in context for you. And it's going to be, you know, not just an activity, but something that you can add more value to through your lens. Edwin?
Yeah, that's, that's, I think what we're looking at is that it is integrated, you know, how does you know listening, you know, constructive dialogue relate to yoga or nature, how is it listening to nature, so really creating that whole, I mentioned about the philosophy of empathy, it is putting this listening at the core, and it's already so powerful in the culture, like all of therapy is pretty much based on listening is effect. You know, mediation is, you know, listening is is sort of core as well as, you know somebody many other practices and integrating it. So there's kind of work to be done about into that integration process. Yeah, totally. There. I just wanted you to and if you have questions for Charles, he's like, you're a little quiet just wondering that anybody has questions for Charles or any comments.
Vice versa.
Charles, do you have comments about what we've been talking about?
I'm just soaking it in. And I guess my position is I don't want to be kind of in the nuts and bolts, but kind of from just a higher level. So that it's not like occupying my whole day. My own work and undertaking. Yeah. Yeah, I realize they'll have to be certain people doing certain departments. And that's kind of their focus. And
you Yeah, we spent three days moving furniture you were there, she saw that. We were hauling furniture, you know, heavy, you know, sofas, and, and dressers and everything else doing all that flirting. So
there's so much out there. Did you have your yard sale, by the way? Not yet.
We need to get ready to bring in a container up there to haul away a lot of the worst. The worst of it. Yeah. And then get rid of a lot of the electronics to the I think Christian was starting to sort the, you know, take it down three E waste. And so, you know, just going through sorting, as Charles was saying.
And donation you can have people like a Catholic charity pick it up.
Right. Yeah. Well,
this has been fun. Thank you.
Bring it to a close then. Unless there's something else.
That's good. I you know, and so it's nice to reconnect. Wasn't too long, though. I've seen you guys and thanks for the time. Nice to meet. I can't remember her name was a Carolyn Cole. Oh, Nicole. Yeah. And her husband, I guess that's her husband. We've been here didn't get a chance to connect with him. But it's nice to know that there are people I mean, that's very Santa Barbara, right. It's a is a is an unusual and amazing and sometimes confusing. community. So Joe, and I've lived here for 21 years. So 20 years or so? Yeah. Since 2001, almost 20. Almost 22.
That sounds like you enjoy it.
No, yeah. It's a nice, it's a nice community. You know, I think you're going about it in a really in a great way to reach out to people, because it is an active community. I'm sorry. That's really annoying. Sorry. Yeah, no, it's an activist community. It's an active community. Like, you know, people want to engage, you know, they're not great. Other communities where they just leave me alone. They so that's your it's great that you're reaching out, I think. So. Anyway,
to join Marta, these discussions are every Monday, if you have some friends, you know, from the community, if they're workshop leaders, or have ideas for projects, and I would love to hear any, if you have an idea for a project, just let us know. And we can see if that if there's a space or you know, funding or whatever to implement that. Some be at a training or a project or whatever. So I want to hear those ideas, too.
Yeah. Okay. Great. All right, guys. We'll enjoy the rest of your week and thanks for this morning.
Okay. Thanks for joining us today. Oh, pretty sure. Yeah,
