II I'm back in the good old US of A was in Europe for the last month and did landed in London and I flew to Spain and did a gig in Spain. Then I went to Ibiza, which was super fun. Never been there before that was a real gas. And then from Ibiza, I went up to see Barcelona and then up to Destin choeling. Really, really wonderful retreat center outside of Leone actually more like limos Nemo which Leone is like four hours away but anyway, I'm back. It was great. Good to be back. Jet lag going this way is a whole lot better than going that way west is best East is least I got hammered going out there. So if you're new to this event, what we do we started this COVID I thought it was going to die, but it's not dead yet. So we just keep showing up. And I'm just here to answer questions, which is actually kind of fun. So I started with the questions that were submitted. And then if you have a question you can raise your hand using the reactions column down there, your hand comes up. You can also type something in the chat column, but it's always better if you come on live that way we can have a little back and forth. Yeah, and then we just kind of see what happens. The only announcement I have actually two is next week. I'm near Aspen for a five my only live Dream Yoga event in the States this year, please call Bejo. And there are still a couple of we had some cancellations and actually transfers. So there are some spaces available for that if you want to be at this really, really gorgeous thing. Gorgeous retreat center. And then if Alyssa combined it. I'm doing a week at drala Mountain Center formerly Shambhala Mountain Center in August. This one's on the luminous party automaton deep dive on that one. So anyway, Okay, listen, here's the big pause, pause. recording in progress. Well, there's my friend surely I met you. I was with Shirley in London and then and then Spain. Wow. Are you in LA? Are you still in London? La. That's why Donald London is must be late. Somewhere. Anyway, nice to see you. I had dinner with Shirley and her husband in London. It was really really great. Okay, so here's a bunch of questions that came in Gabriella? Hello, I'm curious about physical pain and lucid dreams. Okay, it's pain but it's not physical. I've had a couple of dream scenarios where things have attacked me while I was lucid. And I feel actual physical pain not a crippling pain but enough to wonder about it inside the dream. I've read several books about Dream Yoga, lucid dreaming, yours being my favorite. Thank you for saying that. I haven't read anything about this though. It stands to reason that it happens since we feel physical pleasure to dream. I wonder if it has to do with emotional thing. Yeah, here's the thing, Gabriel. This is so cool. Anything you feel. In waking reality, so called waking reality. You can feel in your dream. And I did an experiment with this. Probably 30 years ago when I was just trying to figure out do my lucid dreams. Okay, I want to see outside of vision. And again, there's no eyes in there. This is the amazing thing. There's no dream body in there. There is no dream eyes. There's there's just awareness. It's just the power of habit. It creates the sense that there is a body Alright, and that their body can then feel pain. But there's no body there. There just isn't. That's the amazing thing. There is no body in there. So I conjured up I remember very clearly it was a lucid dream. I conjured up a rosebush and I remember very clearly I stuck my dream thumb at that point. I didn't know better. I thought there was a dream thumb in there. There wasn't in there isn't. I actually create the dream thumb in the act of perception. There's no dream thumb in there. So anyway, I created this dream farm didn't even know I was doing it by habit, stuck it in the dream rosebush Thorn and hit her like a mofo. So there's not physical pain. It's the pain of the mind. Its habit is just simple, raw habit. So anything you feel and experience in the waking state, you can experience in the dream state but there's literally no body in there to feel that pain. The pain is not physical because there's no physicality in there. Isn't that interesting? So if you have anything else on that, you're here listening. Come on, we can talk. Okay, from Steve, I think I have some form of what's called a Fantasia Yes, I know a little bit about that. The inability to create visual images in the mind are difficulty doing so. Yes. And interestingly enough people with a Fantasia don't grieve like other people do because they can't bring to mind they can't visualize the person. How interesting is that? I think this may make it difficult to lucid dream. No. Oh, you asked me then what do you think? No, it doesn't it has no effect. And there's a paper on this there's by white Lee can't read some open source I can't remember where but he writes extensively about this sort of thing. You absolutely positively can dream you up. You can have lucid dreams doesn't affect it. I cannot for example, create a reality check on a dream since I don't see details where you can do reality checks on a number of different ways. I never see my hands or any part of myself for example. Well, this is interesting relation to the earlier question, Steve. There are no hands in there. There is no part of you in there. It's just it's just this is one of the amazing things you can study. It's called non contextual realism. Thinking that there's something there that you kind of passively just perceive no way. There are no dream hands in there. There is no dream body in there. It's just mind and so if you have a Fantasia you can dream you can lucid dream and state checks can be conducted in a different way. Let me see here the rest of it is a little bit long
Yeah, I'm not able to put my Look at my hands and dream or put my fist through a wall. Yeah, I would recommend a check. I can't remember his first name whitely, W H I T E Leu, I think an interesting open source paper, you can probably Google it. He talks a lot about this. But it doesn't affect dreams or lucid dreams, at least to the very best of my understanding. Okay, for Mo. This is a tricky one. I'm curious about the nature of Samaya and how to move on to study with me and teacher. Whether that continues or a break constitutes a break of Samaya so I'll give you my run mo if you're here, but I would love to have you come on. Because this would really help if I could ask you some questions. So if you are here and want to raise your hands, it would really help if we had a little back and forth, if not Samaya this is their their host of different vowels. In the Buddhist tradition in the Hinayana Mahayana virginiana. They all have their respective vows in Hindi Jana has the precepts and if you're a monk that you 140 vows if you're a non as crazy they have like 100 more I mean like go figure right patriarchal BS in the MaHA yada which transcends but includes the Hindi yada then you have all the Bodhisattva vows in the Adrianna then you which transcends what includes all both Mahayana and any and then you have this the tantric or some I have ours. And all these Vows excuse me, interestingly enough, this is the genius of the wisdom traditions. They have all these in mind languaging restraining orders writer agencies because until ego is transcended, it needs to be restrained. think Putin think I mean, dictators think just, you know, out of control politicians, until he transcended it needs to be restrained. And so these files are all about restraining, restraining, restraining. And fundamentally, what are they doing? They're, they're, they're, they're moving, they're reducing movement and movement is the nature of movement as the fundamental generative agency behind eco structure. It's not I think, therefore I de card it's I move therefore I am. So all these all these rows. This is just a contextualized Sumayya are basically designed to restrain movement. Like a wisdom straitjacket, that basically what funnels you into the present moment, which is the only thing that ever really exists. In fact that doesn't even exist. It funnels you into the present moment provisionally. But even the present moment doesn't exist. When you funnel in completely the present moment turns into the fourth moment Hurriya, which is beyond past, present, and future. So that's one thing to talk about in terms of Samaya. I need to ask you some questions because unless you've taken empowerment with these with this teacher, there are no smiles involved, so it takes place with empowerments and therefore, oh gosh, there's so much to say. Here, depending on where you go and who you talk to, whether it's sarma or nema. Everybody has their views on this. Some of the time to say there's 100,000 some ideas that can be reduced to 28 that can be reduced further to seven or 14 whatever it varies dramatically in the traditions. And so fundamentally the roots Samaya is all about well actually I'll keep it specific with your the relationship to the teacher slash guru. Because if you get it if I if I start riffing on the nature of somebody altogether, this is a whole big talk. If you have not had an empowerment along and I'd be Shaco with this teacher, there's no Samaya so if you have had that, then the best thing to do is just respectfully unless Unless this teacher has been not like busted and isn't a real teacher, then I wouldn't do this with respect at all. But if it's the legitimate teacher, that you felt like you needed to, you know, move on to another This happens all the time. Then the thing to do, if you can do it directly with him or her is have a meeting with them. And just simply share just say this is what's happening to me. This is this is what I want to do. This happens all the time. And it is unbelievably rare. In fact if someone does kind of lose it boy you're definitely doing the right thing moving on. They will they will just they will say wonderful. I wish you the very best thank you for spending time in my store or whatever. Right. Thank you for hanging out with me. Wish you all the best please continue. So the way to leave them is with respect. Don't talk ill of them. You know treat treat them in retrospectively with with a great deal of gratitude based on what you have learned. And so there's where I pause here because if your relationship wasn't that great if this teacher was questionable, if they have not given you empowerment and then this this doesn't apply. So this is some is is a little bit slippery, he talked about period, but without having a little bit of back and forth with you. I'm shooting a little bit from the hip. And so if you're here and can come on that would super help. Okay. I mean fundamentally show you how complex somebody is. Somebody is always broken, always repaired. If you don't see this world as perfectly pure, we're like how many people here do that? You're breaking the country go. So we're always breaking some IO where I was repairing it. When you're dealing with some I have a teacher a couple other things come into play. Okay, Rihanna. I recently had an onsite lucid dream okay, they just happen spontaneously su that's cool. In the dream, I was trying to pack a large amount of luggage in order to make a flight on time. Yeah, I this is a super common sort of dream. I then decided I really don't need this luggage good for you and the dream was immediately replaced by a rush of energy that lasted a long time. Oh, that's really cool. Good for you. I have experienced an increase in energy in general since this dream, I five don't need the luggage. Really let it all go. I have not ascertain what the luggage represented any suggestions on how I can find out what part of my life the luggage represented. I No idea. With all due respect, can I really I can't I can't help you with this one. This would involve Ah, geez. I mean I'd have to have the whole dream. Even if we had the time. Here's a little bit the way I work with the whole dream interpretation thing. It is 1,000% valid. I still work with Dream Interpretation all the time. But in the world of Dream Yoga, dream interpretation doesn't exist. We're not interested in dream interpretation at the level of Dream Yoga. It's a little bit like during the day. When you're doing meditation, you are not interested in like contents of your mind in terms of what it represents and all that that's what therapy is for. You're not interested in that you're interested in changing your relationship to the contents of your mind. That's not to say that the therapy isn't valid. Oh my gosh, it's totally valid. Same thing with a world of Dream Yoga, Dream Yoga does that has no interest in dream interpretation? But that doesn't mean dream interpretation isn't important. It is it's great. But for me to try to tell you what the luggage represents. I have no idea. This is something you know, probably the so many books on dream interpretation. And one of my favorites is by Eugene Gatlin called let your body interpret your dreams. I might recommend looking at I'd also recommend if you really want to do it that you work with a depth psychologist, a union who works with dream interpretation. You can learn a lot about this sort of thing but I ah, first of all, who am I you know, I'm to come in and say, you know, this is what this thing represents the best I could do even if I had the entire dream in front of me was would be to say if this was my dream, this is what it may represent. So find a youngin find a Deaf psychologist and look at using Greenlands book. Let your body interpret your dreams. Okay. Okay, here's a nice long one from Eric Eric. I'm just going to trim this down because this one's pretty long. Thank you for writing. Oh, just a couple of things. Here I consider myself a dedicated fairly dedicate to my practice of meditation Dream Yoga. However, I haven't truly been practicing lucid dreaming for the past several years. There was a time in my life that was thinking about becoming a monastic. But I still have attachments to my life who doesn't? I don't always have the time to meditate. You're not the only one. On a workday when things work out. I can get one to two hours. So here's the question. What would be your advice to your average layperson who was still quite dedicated but would like to advance their practice given responsibilities, time constraints about Dream Yoga that was very happy to hear very recently in your dream Yoga Book to essentially extend your meditation beyond just the cushion, which is essentially what he actually attempt to do with my Zen practice. I'm assuming this all day mindfulness would be a game changer for a layperson. Yep. Well, this is a good question, Eric. And, you know, it's good news, bad news. I mean, one. You want to learn how to play the piano. You got to put the time in. You want to learn how to play golf, you want to learn how to become accomplished and lucid dreaming, Dream Yoga.
I wish there was a shortcut. I mean, there's a couple things that maybe can help. But there is this cause effect relationship you get out of it, what you put into it. Now with that said, there are a couple things you can do that will supercharge it one is this is just a tricky, you know the shortcuts. One of the best things is what you seem to be intimating towards the end is really there's so many more ways to meditate than just on the cushion, right? I mean, really, the point of meditation is not meditation. Meditation is remedial work. The point is to mix meditation with post meditation to mix meditation. With life. So I would I would really work with the practice of illusory form if you haven't read. Of course, my books shameless self promotion, beams of light the profound daytime practice of lucid dreaming. The whole book is about the practice of illusory form. This is the main practice actually this Dream Yoga is a subset of illusory form. Let's perform as the main practice. And this is something when you get the hang of it you can do this a long that's that's the point. The point is to bring lucidity. Awareness, lucidity is a code word for awareness. The point is to bring lucidity, awareness to everything you do. Mindfulness definitely does that illusory form as to that ramps it up a notch. So short of going into retreat and doing all the things that I write about in the Dream Yoga Book. The practice of illusory form is really where you want to spend your time and attention is really working with that understanding that understanding the illusory nature of everything and if you can also, you know kind of rocket fuel it with a little bit of if you if it speaks to devotion, compassion, these are the magic ingredients. That's some of the secret sauce. So that's the good news. The bad news is the physics behind it all cause and effect you get out of it, what you put into it. So somewhere in there, Eric is is the way to play with this, but you know, not too tight, not too loose. It's like Milarepa said, hasten slowly. I love this. hastened slowly. Yeah, just keep going. The steadiness is the most important thing. You just keep going. Do retreats when you can read books when you can hang out with like minded people when you can like with like nightclub community and you'll naturally find the door of lucidity increasingly open. Okay, my friend, something like that. All right. So there was another one that came in from Florian from Austria. Let me ask you the following question our dreams Circleville pondering this question in case we experienced a sudden death and don't recognize that we have just died. How can we find out that we are dead in a Bardo state given the possibility that we might be recreating our existence through the power of the consciously of the unconscious mind and are old habits? What would it be a way out of this mind trap? Yeah, good question for him. Well, most people won't recognize that they're dead when they're dead. Just like most people won't recognize they're dreaming while they're dreaming. It's a sadly the same phenomenology. And that's why death is called the dream at the end of time. So all habits die hard, and some of them don't die at all. Let me say that again. All habits die hard, and some of them don't die. At all. And one of them is this habit for habitation the habit that you have a body this is what's connected to the first few questions. The habit that you think you have a body is so powerful that in the dream state when you're you know, you think you got a hand and all this kind of thing. There's nobody in there literally in both senses. Nobody and then nobody nothing everything is exactly the same in the Bardo. But the Power of Habit is so strong the some scars are so strong, it's literally called Bob the heaviest of all habits that we just don't recognize. And so you can get out you know, it's like a pop quiz for the final exam and you want to see how you're going to do when you die. Again, good news or bad news. Look at your dreams. If you have lucidity. If you're aware you're going to be you're going to rock it in the Bardot's because the same thing is the same quality. If not then your habits are going to take over. You're not going to realize you're dead when you're dead exactly the same way you're not going to realize it you're doing when you're dreaming every night. So with that said, That's again is the good news now. You can start a stuff the ballot box so to speak, start start working with state checks are working with Dream sites. I do this all the time. There's a classic list. So I'm going to cultural load your tie and a strategy of knowledge has a classic list of what are called Death signs. These death signs are virtually identical with dream signs. And so I work with a couple of these all the time. And I would recommend if you really want to do this and get into get into the habit of doing the state checks is when you walk I see if you cast a shadow. anytime there's any light see if you cast a shadow. I do this all the time. Because in the Bardo just like in a dream there's no external lights present there so you don't cast a shadow. See if you reflect in the mirror, I mean it's almost like a vampire thing, right? It's some of the stuff is like so out there. See if you can see if there's you reflected in a mirror. See if you leave footsteps in sand or on snow or that sort of thing. And then and then fundamentally really in addition to that just sensitize yourself as often as you possibly can to work with dream signs, and conduct state checks. I mean, I those of you who know me, I do this all the time. I mean, I'm involved in a podcast right now if I hear something weird, you've seen me, I'll do this. I probably do a state check funny 30 times a day. Because there's a little weird anomalous dream type things happening all the time. And because I'm just it's like, it's like saying zentai we're conditioned when somebody sneezes that's a good habit. I do this at some I've done this so long this habit now does me and so you know, I'm going to be okay. I think I'm going to be okay in the Bardo. I might be surprised because I work with these dream signs these deaths signs and I conduct state checks all the time. But if you don't do these again I hate to be the bearer of bad news is today sick physics causality karma. I have a little plaque around the corner Kabir you know that was found them in relationship to life and death. What is not found now is not found them. And so continue to cultivate the habit to do the state checks to look for dream signs and become more and more and more sensitized to this because otherwise paid to be the bearer of bad news you won't recognize just look at your dreams. Okay, aren't you glad you asked? Okay, so now if anybody has a live question or a dead question that questions are welcome. more than welcome. I'll check column in the meantime. Okay. Oh, greetings from Rebecca from Monterrey, Mexico. Hi, Roberta. Nice to meet you. Yeah, I missed you guys too. Really? It's nice to be back. It is nice to be back. Hamish, you're in India. You're no longer in Israel. Oh my gosh. It's me so I'm thinking of. Okay, we just look through here. Yeah. A Fantasia is the inability to visualize it's a it's a condition that afflicts more people than we know, then you might be aware of people just literally have either a partial or a very, very difficult time visualizing. So a Fantasia can become a little bit interesting. And this is where we've had discussions on this platform and in the past when people do or try to do what's called deity yoga or visualization, practice and contract. It's a little bit different you it doesn't mean you can't do it. This is when you have to transfer from visualization to feeling ideation. But a Fantasia is basically the inability to visualize okay oh yeah listen got it. Good for you Alyssa. Yeah, direct messages. Roberta. If you want me to ask I can't I don't have time to respond direct messages. If you want me to respond to the group. I can do it but I can't type this in and kind of pull away from everybody. So paying me if you want me to address your question publicly, I can't address these things privately. Sorry. Oh, yay. Can you make a clear distinction for me between Hinayana and Mahayana? I'm trying to get very clear on this distinction. But on that yeah, hindi on is a it's a kind of authoritative term. Basically means narrow vehicle. Sometimes people necessarily dreadful translation although the lesser vehicle right? Oh, oh, yes, I belong to the tradition of the lesser vehicle. I mean, give me a break. It's a horrible name. Indiana Mahayana Hindi I was terrified him one of the 18 schools um, there was excellent at the time of the Buddha. Only one that still exists is Tera Vaada Mahayana. So there's a lot to say here I read Tim Reggie's beautiful book.
In Indystar, indestructible truth. He talks about this over 300 pages but really any monetary hidden IANA is basically narrow vehicle it basically means you're working on your own stuff. doing your own thing. There's a whole school excuse me, kind of geographical array of countries that emphasize that Mahayana transcends but includes any IANA. Some in some, you know, some kind of conservative, terrified and people when they look at Mahayana, let alone luxury and they feel that those traditions have strayed. That's one of the differentiating factors but Mahayana means great wide vehicle. Take the vow of the bodhisattva vow that others are more important than you the fruition and again these things are there's a gray zones right? the fruition of the Tera Vaada hitting Yan has what's called Social Harpa individual liberation or hardship, Nirvana In Mahayana Buddhism, they would consider that a bit selfish. But again, some of these are heuristic kind of teaching. Issues Mahayana The goal is to put others in front of you. Wider vehicle, more skillful means introduction to the doctrine of emptiness fundamentally brought about the Mahayana tradition. So this is a really huge topic, Tim, I really strongly recommend you look at Reggie's beautiful book what I call the indestructible truth okay. Oh Rhonda, good for you high five Rhonda. Wow, you pop those up so fast. Thank you so much. This is awesome. She's a rock star. I really your rock star Ronda? Yeah, here they are. You cast no shadow you see no reflection a mirror. I mean really like a vampire. What? You leave no footprints in the sand your body makes no sound people don't respond to you. See, this one doesn't work for a number five doesn't work for me. Because people don't respond to me even now. So that death sign doesn't exist for me anymore. Ask any family member you know I've completed it all the time. You can move through matter. You have miraculous power. You cannot see the sun or the moon High five. Good for you around this spot on. Okay, I will get Roberta's question in just a second. But let's turn to Emily and get some of these live ones. Fire away. Emily. Nice to see you.
Hi. Just real quick. I'm starting to have some success with recognizing my dream signs and waking up for the first time in my dreams. That's very
exciting. One.
My question is you've talked several times about in the past about how meditation isn't supposed to be sedation and then if you're just sitting there kind of zoned out just feeling good. You know, you're not gaining insight and you're not furthering your practice. And so I do loving kindness, and I've been doing the mantra you taught us the Omani tarot, but sometimes I feel like if I'm just sitting and feeling the aliveness in my body, which feels so good. I'm like, Well, I'm just zoning out. Now I'm stressing myself out that I'm not gaining insight. So could you talk to that a little bit?
That's too funny. Yeah, you know, that's my look, critique. You mentioned this critique I have about mindfulness. Mindfulness is amazing. But it's it is. It is limited. I mean, the mindfulness revolution is amazing. But mindfulness is tranquility, quiescent, stabilization, mindfulness sedates. It does not liberate. The Buddha did that. By the way, the Buddha did not discover mindfulness he inherited that though it's wrong when people say the Buddha invented mindfulness he did not. What the Buddha discovered is insight meditation, but passionate that's what liberates. See. So I just have this little critique about mindfulness. I endorse it, but I also criticize it and also the mindfulness revolution. And you know, when the world's on fire, chilling, it's a good thing, but it's not going to wake you up. It's going to chill you out. So the other thing you're talking about is I mean, if you're feeling these beautiful qualities, and you're feeling fully present and alive, you know, who am I to come in there and say, oh, you know, that's somehow deficient. And you're not going to discover the nature of mind and reality from that. I'm not going to do that. Right. So if you're having a sense of full embodiment, a sense of presence, a sense of awe and wonder, Oh, my gosh, just celebrate that. You know, really fundamentally. One of the best things we can do is just feel 100% wholeheartedly. Whatever is actually arising in our experience right here and right now that in many ways is the essence of all meditation. If you're feeling what you just talked about, feel that 100% That's actually going to be spiritual. If you're feeling almost what we might have panned anti spiritual, we're feeling pain. We're feeling heartbreak, we're feeling whatever, feel that 100% That's gonna become spiritual. So the only the only thing I might say as a slight warning, and I'm big on this, because I just wrote this article for tricycle is going to come out in there. I think follows you. I've been riffing on this. You've heard me. You know, the two biggest problems with the spiritual path, right? Number one, word spiritual. Number two, the word path. And the reason I say that is, if you are simply 100% present with what's happening right now. That's it. All these other normal things shamatha being the mind of the passionate inside, penetrating in 100% valid I mean, these are massive contributions. But again, the essence is, is those both lead to a full complete presence and experience to whatever's happening. If you do that, it's like it's like I write about in my book coming out in July this month, or next month, is you know, before he can become a Buddha, you have to become 100% human. You might discover them that being 100% human is to be the Buddha. So I would just use these particular skillful means that come from all the traditions is ways to cultivate what they're designed to cultivate. But in in so called post meditation, so called life, then the real practice is just being 100% with whatever you're feeling. Yeah. Does that make sense to that? Land with you?
Are there any particular repulsive practices that you would recommend or I mean, how do you I guess that's probably a whole other conversation. Yeah, for
passengers. You know, it's a massive multi day long term. It goes all the way from panoramic awareness to analytic meditation to insight into the nature of reality. So you're right. That is a really big topic. You know, the whole the Pasadena tradition of, in particular, Joseph Goldstein. I really appreciate his work. He's written a lot about this. And I think he has rendering from a terabyte and point of view is probably the best that's out there in my humble estimation. Outside of that, then you have the whole that passion aspect of the Tibetan approach. So maybe with your permission, I'll table that one. Because that's that's another just really big wonderful question, but I want to allow other people to come on. Is that okay? Yes, thank you. Nice to see you, Emily. If Sharon Boudreau prime das How are you my friend? Good to see you.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Like to surf I missed the surf part.
Glad you're back. Yeah. A question on the dream signs or the death signs. Do those death signs are they limited to the painful Bardo of dying or
Oh, no. These are mostly karmic Bardo. Becoming.
Oh, okay. So you were even though you're in the karmic Bardo becoming you're still thinking that you're living in your past.
That's the karmic partner becoming is is dreams are the concurrent experience of the karmic partner becoming. So this, everything I said applies to that Bardo. Now it's ready to go that's when you're going to transition out of this body into the subtle dream mental bodies called Mundo Maya. And just like in your nighttime dream, you're not going to realize you're dead, that you're dead just the way you don't realize you're dreaming. What you're dreaming. So that's called regard to becoming
bored the karmic Bardo of becoming Do you at some point? Forget your past life, just completely to where because you got to now go into your next situation right. Yeah,
you mean that gets blown out you know, the farther you go into the Bardo, becoming? Especially without lucidity, the more windy it gets, which means the karmic habit patterns there it gets stronger and stronger. And the more rebirth is driven by panic. And fear because you can't handle the onslaught of your own mind. I mean, there's no bottle again please understand this. There's no pre existing Bardo in there. There's nobody in there freaking you out. There's nobody in there waiting to terrify you. It's just your mind I roids. By that I mean there's nobody at all. So it's everything is heightened. And so the longer you go into the Bardo, without lucidity, the stronger the winds get the stronger the patterns have parents come into play. In basically, you take you take a body, you take a form, make a bad choice, out of fear, panic, I just want some ground. I can't handle all this space. Too much when too much space and the panic itself will will compel you force you into making a less than auspicious choice, that there's no choice. There's no choice. Your habits choose for you. Exactly like what happens in a nighttime dream. If you're not lucid in your dream, who chooses for you know who decides you don't your habits do? That's why famously to remember Jay what is it that reincarnate your bad habits. So you only out you know you This is why you want to again, if possible, attain lucidity as soon as you can. And that Bardo. Before before it gets a little windy.
So is the lucidity that we're trying to maintain in the dream in the Dream Yoga? Is that the same lucidity
Yeah, it's the same. Yeah.
But but then is there is it mind or is it actually
sampled rig bought? No, it's not required? No. If it was rigged by you at a chain attain enlightenment and the Bardo. Dermatol there's no there's no rig pa function. Well, you had I put have to put quotes on this because Rick was always present right but never turns off. But basically awareness. Correct. Awareness of it is lost. That's lost when you FedEx out of the Dharma tar because it's too bright into the Bardo becoming, which is Sam that's when Sam takes over. Nam che takes over and REG but I mean, you can always attain awakening through recognition at any point. You can always attain recognition. But what happens is it just gets too too windy too. You know, it's just too much activity too much movement. We you know, we lose the essence in the display and the display in the Bardo dramatize I mean in the bar to becoming is massive, right. So you lose the essence because there's too much display. The essence was lost in the Bardo Dermatol that's why you didn't recognize that's what threw you into the Pardo becoming. Make sense?
Yes. Fantastic. Thank you.
You bet. Nice to see you. Okay, Roberto, fire away.
Hi, thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Oh, glad I found this beautiful group. And it's good listen to you live because I've listened to your your books on audio. So it feels so, so freaky. But I'm so grateful to be here. Um, I've experienced lucid dreaming since I was a child because I had night terrors. So I this is my own translation of my experience. I believe my own psyche was trying to save me from the night terrors so I developed the natural ability to realize that I was dreaming to them out of the dream. I recently got your workbook because I wanted to get more into it like to have more control of the lucid dream. It's when I'm in there because I awaken in my dreams but I I tried to control things but I it's it's like I'm not controlling anything. But the my question here today is mostly mostly regarding if you could expand a little bit of levels of dreams, this is how I conceive it. So I'm in my dream. I wake up in my dream and it's like this nightmare. So I want to wake up so I have this thing where I start like moving like this in my dream and I wake up but I'm still in the dream. And then I wake up and I'm still in the dream and like the longest layers I've had like four and then I actually wake up in this reality where we're all here now. Now. And it's it's not scary anymore because it has happened to me all my life, but it's it's not fun and I don't really enjoy it. So if you could share some light in how to manage this or your perspective on it. i
If I understand what you're saying you're talking about, it seems to me you're talking about what are called false awakenings. Recursive dreams where you're dreaming you wake up, you think you're awake, but you're still dreaming, right? Yeah, those are called false awakenings. I actually really love those things. I think they're so freakin cool. Because you know you think you're awake you got it, you think you're awake and then boom, something else happens they'll go oh my god, I'm still dreaming. Well, here's the kicker Roberta is happening while you think you're awake in this reality. I don't really want to freak you out. But why not? You think you're waking reality? You're still dreaming? If you think if you think this world is dualistic, you see me separate worlds solid, lasting independent these are the classic Dream Yoga dream signs. That means you're still dreaming. So we're always under dream. This is super important. We are always in a dream. Dream is code language for manifestation of mine. There is nothing but a dream. And so when you die, where do you go? This answers that question. You just go from one dream to the next. So you basically assume read my book. Dreams of life. I read a ton on this. We think we're awake in this world for all kinds of reasons. Mostly fear based but we're actually asleep. So we're always in a dream. And so when you're having these recursive dreams, these false awakening dreams, I think these things are bloody awesome. And that's the way I would relate to them instead of like, Oh crap. It should be like oh, wow, you know, the Sanskrit is talking about chocolate Cara, this sense of wonderment. You just amazement like wow, this is amazing. So just go for the ride you know learn how learn how to fly in space. You know, these are this is the what a Khandro a feminine dakini principle one who can fly in space. And so when you're going through these things, it's a little bit like I mean, reminded of this beautiful quote from trover. mache, right, the master of the one liner, you've heard this one. The bad news is you're falling through space without a parachute. Right? The good news is there is no ground. We're always in freefall. So go for the ride. Enjoy it, put your wings out, become a sky dancer, and then just learn how to fly in open space. And therefore when the false awakenings take place, instead of freaking out you're gonna go wow, this is really awesome. 1234 times I'm thinking I'm awake, but I'm still dreaming. How freaking cool is that? So I would just celebrate it. I really would. Because again, there's no there's nothing inherently problematic with any of this. The nature of the mind is divine. It's pure, it's sacred. It really is. It's only when you when you relate to it inappropriately you refer against it, you fight against it. Or whatever. That's the only way this stuff can become somewhat problematic. And that's due to what your inappropriate relationship to it. So if you just open expand, celebrate, enjoy. Realize this just you know, mind. In this case, you could say it is your mind. True. Your mind is good. It's just manifesting in this way and then just just enjoy it. Really. Just enjoy it. Don't try to control it. Just enjoy it. You may find it'll completely change the way you relate to this thing.
Thank you. I love that and if I could just in the context of a nightmare. How
to in the context of a nightmare. So you mean you're having say more about that. So you're waking up from one nightmare into
my lucid dreaming gets activated because it's a nightmare. So I realize like this isn't God this is not cool at all. And then I tried to wake up and I do the false awakenings things but it's the nightmare still kind of continues because it's like I'm still in the dream.
Yeah, yeah. So so what you want to do there is you know, there's quite an interesting comment. Anytime people work themselves up from a nightmare. That's a moment of lucidity. Usually they wake up and they're back into this reality to what recommend is in my book, Dream Yoga, stage of course working with fear established. Again, if you understand the nature of your mind is Divine is pure, it's good. It's sacred. And nightmares are basically undigested, unresolved processes of your psyche coming back and in terms of integration. You know, the nightmare is fundamentally wanting to be healed and hold and so if you understand that, like a child, you know, having a tantrum, face the nightmare, do the opposite of what you would normally do. Embrace it, love it. It's just your mind. There's there's no demonic figure in there. There's nothing in there that can hurt you. It's just your mind it's undigested. Metabolic unmetabolized Psychic residue. So if you realize I'm going to metabolize this, I'm going to digest this I'm going to work with this turn around, thinking you know, you wake up and stay in the dream. Go into the nightmare. Face it embrace it, and welcome it. Just literally whatever demonic figure is there. Look at right in the eye. Embrace it and you'll find it's just your mind there's nothing in there emptiness cannot harm emptiness. It's just your mind. And in that way that residue will be processed energy will be re released you'll be lighter, you will be freer and you may find your your nightmares your bedroom slowly start to disappear so do you do that? You know, let's listen to my friend Charlie Morley. He did. He did a sweet TEDx talk. You'll find it where he talks a little bit about and I think he closes his TEDx talk with this his relationship to nightmares where he engages in this sort of thing. So see if you can find that talk. He does a nice job with it. And also if you want to really dive into it, my also my dear friend, Claire Johnson, her book The Art of transforming nightmares is a wonderful book. I highly recommend that. So if you really have some nightmare issues which a lot of people do. She's a PhD psychologist, super great, lucid dreamer, but also really strong in the basic psychological arena. I would really recommend that book The Art of transforming nightmares. Okay.
Thank you so so, so much. Yeah. Welcome. Nice
to have you with us. Hey, Kimberly, come on board my dear. Nice to see you.
He very good to see you again. Okay, so yeah, everything you're saying is like crazy. So a question Could it like I often wonder, could we actually be a so called dead right now and in your question, if and not even realize and it definitely potential but also because what you mentioning is like a slippage through all the boaters in one moment. That we can. We are in the middle of becoming and we are doing a kind of a reincarnation process. I feel like hearin
Absolutely. 100% Yeah, until you become a Buddha. You're always in the Bardo. And so it's exactly what you said. And you know, in terms of the death thing Yeah, can really you're already dead. You're dead right now. I mean, look deep into this is the good news, bad news thing. You know, look deep into the center of your centerless self and you'll find there's nothing there. You're already dead. So, I'll get back to you. I'll be a little bit more like relativistically practical, but are cute, by the way, a fear of death. As you've heard me say this. Our fear of death is an inauthentic secondary fear thrown into the future by inability to deal with the harsh truth of our inherent emptiness right now. We're already dead. We don't exist. We don't exist. You think you're having a dream? You think you're waking up in the morning? No, there's no such entity. But anyway relativistically Yes, we have this this consensual reality. It's actually a consensual hallucination is all it is. And within that consensual hallucination. We have certain parameters, the day life and death and so we don't we're not all dead in that sense, because there's a relative level of stability and replicability here that you won't find in the Bardo. So that's why relative level No, you're still alive. On an absolute level. You're dead.
Yeah, it's kind of like holding the spend of multiple say even draw, but more than draw consciousness of you in multiple dimensions in the one right, okay. So then we break all that apart to my next question is, you know, we have the three rounds of Dharmakaya and some burger clear and then no mocha. Association. Where does the other get? Where did the other six realms exist? Like the the other Heaven Heaven realms? Are they in with the in
say again, I cut you off. Sorry, dear.
No, no, I was just gonna ask a we've seen the same burger kya or the nirmanakaya in cosmology.
Well, there it's all nirmanakaya you know until you until you answer the pure lands. It's all nirmanakaya you know, it's all been fine in in terms of these realms, you know, where are they you know? Like, they're, they're there as much epistemological as they are ontological. I mean, they're states of mind as much as they are states of reality. Right. But in terms of the coyotes, they're there, they're all nirmanakaya It's just that when you go to like, the highest of the god knows it's just the penthouse of samsara. And so, yeah, when it's, it's still within that reified dimension. It's just the best of the wholesome sorry. The Sobotka mentions and again, this is also gets a little bit tricky, because on one level, the three kinds are always present right here and right now. So when we talk about the three Kai is that these are wonderful, rich topics. We talk about them in a simultaneous fashion. And and also in an unfolding fashion. You're You're intimating the unfolding fashion that out of the Dharmakaya arises the symbol Gaia, out of that arises that and that schema, then some Olga chi would be pure lands etc. Under Monica would be this but you know, if you look at the simultaneous expression of the Chi as they're, they're always manifesting, right right here and right now, the clarity, the clarity. What you're kind of breaking, right, I
was just saying yes, exactly what you're saying and just goes back to Yeah, just goes back to what we were talking about before. Basically, that it is all simultaneously happening.
Yes, again, you're breaking up a little bit. If I'm hearing you properly, then I would have to say yes. Okay. Okay. All right, David, one last question for today and then we'll be back. Far away. You gotta unmute yourself. A mute please.
Thank you. So, I decided to speak up because so many things you're talking about today over related. First off, you know, as you will recall, I am the person that brought up a Fantasia a lot. And I have it and I recently had an experience to have a very vivid beyond visualization which in this case, it was I was preparing to go to a green car program. And it seemed like green Tara visited me. And it was so vivid, and I wasn't sleeping and I wasn't trying to visualize her. She just showed up. Cool. And just and what she said was she wanted to give me something really wholesome to visualize as a feminine ideal.
Oh, no way. Oh, wow. How freaking awesome is that? So what did she give you?
She had me
say she had sex with you. Yeah.
And it was you know, I never I can't even have sex in a dream because I always wake up. But this wasn't even a visualization it was like, you know, I've had mystical experiences. And this was one of those. And it was so vivid. It was more vivid than actual sex. It was so incredibly wholesome was like this great gift from Tara. And so it was a lot of impetus to go ahead and do the Tarot practice because that was just being the sound and recording person for a green Tara weekend. Following that with Tuco also Dorji and segue again, he was advisory on a advisory on a practice that he gave to everyone there and didn't require some Maya. Yeah. And I particularly asked him myself, you know about what was going on there with that. And so, it was just something you didn't need to have someone as your buyer's remaster in order to practice and it was created specifically for that. But it still was a full scale. Practice. It's all the stages except taking. So your your, your Samaya you know, they had the refuge and the Oh, and bodhisattva vow component of it, and all the other things have a version on a practice. So that was really interesting. And And finally, I want to say, you know, it's really interesting that while you know we have the, the dreaming dream when we don't see shadow or shadow, or reflection, but this is the waking dream. And it seems very interesting that we can see those things in this dream. There's something fundamentally different about the waking dream than the sleeping dream. And what would you say about that?
I wouldn't say there's something fundamentally different, different. David, I would say there's something different but it's not fundamentally different. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. I mean, it basically has to do with the level of reification that takes place in this so called dimension, which is, which is the least open the most contractive the most reified, the more the most stable, at least in a relative sense, which is why we have science and all those sorts of things. But the thing one thing I definitely want to say is huge. Thank you for sharing what you did. That's an amazing story. And I love hearing this kind of stuff because it just speaks to the wonder the miracle of this reality and that we are not alone and we have capacities to interact with non human and dances that can really benefit us and so for you to very generously share that is just want to give you a big hug. I mean really, really cool dream. Is that dream really, really cool experience. I mean, what a
sleep and I thought she was responding to a deep need in me. You know, typical male, but we're so fluid and convoluted, but the things that we think about each other. And here was just this experience of utter wholesomeness. Yeah. Fantastic. It was so generous. It was, it was such amazing love. It was like, wow, our app could be so personal. And teaching something and, and and having this amazingly wonderful, pleasant experience. It was just
Yeah, it's a true it's a true empowerment to be shaker transmission. And so is it a beautiful, David that the more we open ourselves, the more we make ourselves available to these types of experiences, which can seem so esoteric, they're actually rather ordinary in an extraordinary kind of way. And the more we make ourselves open and available to them, the more we can have these types of marvelous experiences. But remember, of course, don't get attached to it, let it go celebrate it. Don't try to reproduce it and hopefully it'll, you know, just whatever. Hopefully it'll just whatever. So, anything else on that, David that I that I addressed what you wanted to address or is there anything else hanging with that?
Well, no having a Fantasia it was so amazing to have that that kind of a vivid experience too.
Yeah. Yeah. It gives me all the more attraction because then you know, you were imagining and visualizing it. I mean, it really was a true vision and in the deepest sense of the word, so that makes it even more compelling and more powerful review.
I had one once with three other people, and they all experienced the same visitation from Trump Rinpoche, and a horde of rare Ma. Who came down to a dead colleague that we were practicing the feast for, just for the sake of before his funeral that morning, at night, and it was, we all experienced it and his wife downstairs, experienced it something extraordinary was happening up there too, so much that she talked about me with me at the funeral even. So, yes, these things we can open up these other worlds can open up before we're just ready for the prepared.
I mean, we're interpenetrating with all these. I mean, Huxley talked about it Blake talked about it. We're interpenetrating with all these dimensions of reality. And for those who aren't familiar with my edge of mine podcast platform, listen to the two conversations I had with Sean Espeon Hargens on Exos studies if you don't know if you've listened to that yet, David. No, it's It's definitely worth listening to because it just lands lends increased credibility to these types of experiences. I highly recommend it so Hey, anyway, so great to be back with everybody. It's good to be back in the old USFA largely so I can hang out with wonderful people like you. So if dedication of bear means anything to you, that anything your value we've done here we gather and we send it out to all sentient beings who might need it. And until then, we have dreams hearing group on those of you who are nightclub people, and then the usual events happened Monday with the meditation thing if you're connected to that. Next week, I'm in Aspen starting on Thursday to do a five day dream yoga thing. So come on out. The place is jaw dropping beautiful so until then great to see everybody. Hang with you in the near future pleasant dreams keep your minds and hearts open. And if you want to unmute and give this group little hug I buy thing at the end we always do. This is kinda sweet. And until then, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. Bye. Requiring stopped everyone. Can I invite everyone I
didn't even know what was the inner what was the interview that Andrew just suggested that I listened to because he knew grabbing you the link right now my computer's just as kind of slow. I'll click on it as soon as it appears. Because I know what I can't save things here. I don't think maybe.
Alright, let's see
okay, there it is. Thank you. I've opened it. So thank you so much. You're welcome. Bye, everyone.
