GMT20240626-180101_Recording_640x360

    10:47PM Jun 26, 2024

    Speakers:

    Liz Kantner

    Keywords:

    people

    work

    customers

    facebook

    buyer

    ads

    targeting

    focus

    email

    data

    budget

    test

    business

    money

    audience

    google

    website

    jewelry

    funnel

    buy

    Everyone, thanks for being here. I'm excited to have a Facebook ads expert here today, John Hampson, and he was introduced to me with rave reviews from Larissa, worse yet who I always trust. So, thanks for being here. You're what the Facebook ad guy for jewelers is like your nickname? Yeah,

    I've adopted the title. I'm not a jewelry buyer myself. But I think some of the agencies I worked at previously, I got just really deep with some of the jewelry accounts that I had and ended up kind of going all the way through doing pretty much everything for some of these companies. And so I kind of know the unique challenges of that kind of business. But yeah, I mean, not just Facebook, but really, Google ads, the website analytics, kind of the full nine. And I've worked with a few jewelers in the past that were on QVC, and some of the HSN, things like that. So Amazon stores, all the backend logistics, the three PLS, all that kind of stuff. So I've kind of I've seen, you know, we're where everything can leave, but also know we're, you know, starting out and kind of in between how to how to kind of grow it there. So a lot of the misconceptions, I think that's where I'd start. Liz, you helped me with a few questions from the audience, just kind of overview. I guess some of the main topics I'll be looking at are the audiences just questions around that budgets? Like what's the right budget to use? What's the minimum, you should use? Just questions about the platform's, which ones should I focus on, which should I expect out of them and some of the ideas about targeting and how to accomplish that, but I could go through, I guess, like a 101, how Facebook ads works, or things like that, but you probably already know something, you've probably already tried to Facebook Azeri, at least seeing them on a daily basis. And so rather than start with the basics, I will start with kind of the exceptions and some of the high level things that I know are really common issues with what you guys are probably experiencing, but I'm a Communications major. So I guess that's kind of a lens that I've used, things like that. And one of the biggest things I noticed, just working with semi different clients is kind of misunderstanding, like I commonly have to tell, especially jewelers like you are not your client. So even if like there's certain things that you like, are there things that you want to make, that's, that's definitely a good starting point. But the real thing you should focus on as a business owner is what are your customers saying, and you kind of have a choice there as far as what customers do you want to serve. So it could just be like whoever likes my stuff, or you can kind of go to the forums and listen to what they're talking about what they like, and then provide them something which I think is a much better idea is giving them what they already want. So that's kind of hacking the demand curve, in a sense, because it's much more hard, you know, difficult to spend the money, get in front of people entice them, have them go through the whole sequence, become a customer and all that and to that's, you know what people are doing with Facebook ads, maybe like three or four years ago. I think the reason people are still using it the way that they are, is because it was the privacy thing was not really no regulations were in place. And so you probably know that Facebook's kind of listening to what you're saying. And so you can actually a small business owner could go in there and say I want to target people that are interested in this, and Facebook will help you out by spying on people. And then you would really get the kind of people you're looking for. And they put some things in place to where you don't exactly know who that person is. But you might know and identifier about they fit in a cohort, they're within a sample size. So what it means is you really have to have the right messaging, because your your message is going to be seen by people, you know, in a wider array, a swath of audience members. And so you want to make sure that the message itself speaks to that person within that audience. But basically just focusing on the demographics, it's really helpful to have customer personas, there may be a younger cohort, there may be an older cohort, men, women, seasonal buyers, people that are you know, shopping for a loved one, something like that. And it's really helpful that they analyze the data on the back end with people who are actually purchasing spending time on your site and getting an idea about the demographics. So you can look in Analytics set, you know, for conversions, actual customers, and then see what are the demographic profiles of this or look at certain segments of categories of products, or even some of your Facebook insight data for engagement there. If you have a few personas, then you can begin to open conversations with these people. And I think that's a good way to look at who you're communicating with. Because if you're communicating to everyone you're communicating to no one. And I think that's one of the traps that people kind of get into because that's what it looks like on the outside. I'm just putting stuff out there. But you really have to shape the message that it's heard by the person on the other end, and you really want to be building your end analytics to take to take notes on that, whether it's adding hot jar data or doing a customer survey and things like this, literally just asking your customers what they want, like sending an email and saying, reply back with with this or giving them a, you know, an option where they can select from something. This is how you're going to be able to shape your audience into something that's, you know, a customer pool that you're probably looking to grow. Another thing is, as far as like re remarketing, that's really where the strength in Facebook lies. So there's kind of the concept of lean in and lean out marketing. So leaning in would be much worse on Google basis. So I know exactly what I'm looking for I type in some keywords, I'm trying to go somewhere. And so then I'm gonna encounter some marketing. Whereas on Facebook, I'm just kind of browsing, I see a picture of my grandmother or somebody's dog or something like that. And then all of a sudden, there's an ad, that kind of pops out to me, that's a lien out strategy. And it's, it's harder to kind of capture demand and take an action based on just kind of a first impression. So the real trick of this kind of system that I tend to use is you're generating interest on Facebook, you're using the data to get in front of the right people, but you're really going to generate the sale on Google, when they are ready to go take the action, you want to make sure that you are in front of that person there. You're also going to have to spend more money to be competitive in Google because it's an auction based platform. So what will commonly happen is people will say, Well, I can afford to spend about 50 cents a click or $1 a click or so when the average cost per click for certain keywords that they're targeting maybe $2.50, or $5. The way to think about all this is the people that are you're paying 50 cents, or $1. To click, you don't even want those people in the first place. So you really need to set everything up in your funnel, to be able to spend at a $5 $2.50 level, because you're getting in front of the right people, and you have to be competitive. And so a lot of what I do is kind of get the whole website, the analytics, the messaging, the creative to where, what, wherever they come from, when they land here, it's going to have all the information they need to take the next step. And so I really focus on looking at the website, making sure that there's no issues there. But not only that, just kind of optimizing it, getting it up to what the shoppers are used to expecting on the bigger websites that they're at. And just making sure that when they do come here, when we do spend money to bring them here, that they're going to be able to take the action and kind of you know, bring you the recoup on the investment. Another huge thing that's particular with jewelry stores, it is expensive. And so in the past, you might have been able to run a store just by running advertisements, and the ROI might have made sense for some stores not all. And some people got addicted to the nature of how that used to work. But now you have to think more holistically about, you know how you're running your business, what you're saying into who segmenting your email, lists and things of that nature. But you have to think that when you're acquiring a customer, you're spending that money that they're now getting onto an email list, they're in your customer database. And so now you can reach out to them via email, which is what Larissa does, and I've worked with her and a couple of projects. She's a pro at email, I do mostly the ad side so I can bring in customers. And not all of them are going to buy. But we'll a were able to remarket to them and create an extended conversation, where we can put more things in front of them, have helped them go through a sequence where we're introducing the brand, introducing certain new products that we're putting out certain features of how we run the store, maybe you have a free shipping element or buy now pay later and things like this, to get in front and kind of nudge them toward taking that action. But really, Google is I think your primary sales vehicle. And Facebook is where you're kind of just nurturing that pool and keeping more regular contacts while they're maybe a little bit less active in their search. So think about your willingness to spend a certain amount to acquire a customer. So if your average order value for your your carts is about $100 You should be able to spend up to that amount of money to acquire the customer knowing that because your back end, your email automations your ongoing email series, your organic Facebook posts, things of this nature, when you're reaching out for free, you can still generate additional sales and that's where the profit is. That's what allows you to be competitive in a market where probably most of your competitors are trying to just do Facebook ads thing. They're going to grind themselves to dust because the costs are prohibitive, and they're not going to be focused on the actual business. So focus on the customers they already have, they have already gone through the process, you've already spent the money they're willing to buy from you, you need to talk to them. You need to create opportunities, whether it's email a little segment and say, hey, I'll give you a gift card to hop on a call, and just talk about stuff. What do you like, I'll give you

    a hunt, you know, whatever discount or a gift card to share a review, because these types of things are going to give you even more information to help shape that business. And it's also going to give it's a breadcrumbs for the next person that comes through. And they see that awesome review, and they're ranting and raving and, and things like that. So you want to create this fun over the people that had a good experience before you just reintroducing that same content for the new people. And you're just using the communication process to sharpen his funnel so that at some point, it is so well lubed and just sharpened up were organic people can come in, and you don't have to spend so much money to generate sales. So the thing about the Facebook marketing is you really want to use it as an exploratory process to test dates. So you're testing this region, you're testing this type of audience, you're testing this age group, you're testing this messaging, and when in ultimately, you're going to find a handful of messages and audience targeting options that work. And then you want to eliminate the other things and pile all your budget into those things that do work. It does take a certain amount of budget. So if you think I would just estimate, it's about $1 A click these days. And that's including like the low traffic high traffic average. That's both on Facebook and Google, Google continue to be a little bit higher, maybe 150 $2. So run the numbers and figure out based on your actual margin of your products, what you can afford at this time to, to basically stay afloat, you may not profit in this venture, and let's say give it a 90 day window. And that's what I typically do with people that I work with is, let's do 90 days, the first 30 days, we're going to fix a bunch of stuff we know we need to fix, and then we're going to find a bunch of stuff we didn't know was there. So we'll fix all that stuff and do a round of kind of optimizations, like I was saying, Get rid of the stuff that didn't work, double down things that second 30 days, or you're kind of getting a grip on things. But then in the final 30 days is when you really should be kind of your first good month of things working how they should. And at that point, it makes sense. While we have the data to kind of look at what should we do from here, at what level, you know, should we invest or what direction should we go. But if you think at a at $1 per click, you have to be in the market. So there's 24 hours in a day, if you're only going to apply a $30 a month budget, that's you know, one click per day, and it will exhaust the budget. So you have to give it enough, I would say a healthy budget would be getting closer to 50 to $100 a day. For for one channel. So the number might start out at like three to 5000, I would say as a pretty low budget. If you have less than that, I would pick one channel. And it would probably be I guess Facebook, because you get at you're able to kind of test your messaging a little bit more when you get some of the messaging down and dial that in, then maybe you can take some of the savings and move it to Google. But it really is something you have to be able willing to compete that you can't just throw a couple dollars in and get a slice of what you would have gotten at a larger budget, you kind of have to come in as a competitor in a sense, and you have to give it time in the market. So Google and all these other platforms are going to be based on its larger like AI machine learning now. So yes, you can target this keyword, you can target that audience. But ultimately, what you're doing is you're teaching the machine learning, find more people like these. And so you set up a funnel, that's actually something you want to do it like a purchase rather than, hey, come and share this or do whatever you really want to focus on getting to the events that you're you're primarily focused on. And so you can train the system to find more like that. And when you have that train, it can work a lot more in your favor, the cost will kind of round out, the performance will increase as it knows, because it's going to do a lot of testing original too. So you do need that about 90 days so that the system is kind of up and running and and knows what it's doing. And you need enough budget so that it has enough events to know what to even look for because at first it's going to kind of fire left and right and just kind of figure things out. So it does take a period of time. It does take a certain amount of budget. But if you look at it as a slate, like I'm investing $10,000 In this exercise, you know or something of that nature, then you can look at the end of that period and see was it worthwhile because on the day to day basis, hour to hour basis, like you know, the money's gonna be flying around and it's gonna be hard to figure out what exactly He's going on while it's doing testing. So think about what you're going to test, know what you should expect on the out outside, and then just kind of, you know, review the data and go from there based on how they're actually responding. So we look through here. Yeah, so I mean, a very minimum budget would be like a $600 per channel. So that gives you about 20 bucks a day to spend. And that would probably be the minimum to have enough to get it to do something in your favor. But at that point, I would still like and then, you know, probably waiting and just getting to a point where you can do double that or triple that or something like that. And once again, your goal was advertising is to acquire new customers, and then you can email them for the low cost of whatever you're paying for your email, you know, less than 100 bucks, probably, you can reach out to them on social as they're adding you. So

    what do you think about sorry, to like, interfere? Yeah, I know, a lot of people here might be watching, like, just like boost posts on Instagram randomly.

    Okay, so the thing of the boosting is, you are basically telling Facebook, I want to buy data from you, as the broker, I don't exactly target who I'm going for. So you're tapping into the machine learning, like I was saying, so it can work. And in fact, that usually works really well, because Facebook does have a lot of data on people they've seen through your accounts history, who's reacted to it the most, and based on the similarities of those people in those kinds of how to go. And their goal is to take more of your money, so they want it to work. The difference is when you're trying to build a business and prospect and shape this conversation, you don't have as much control. And so you do want to kind of take the reins and focus on how your campaign is set up. So that you can get results that you are able to take as learnings, you know, in the like, you could have a what I call it a Brand Story Video. It's it's some people like that, and not everybody likes that. But it is a super good component to say like, you know, whether you make it by hand, and you show a little video, and you show kind of the back end and how things are done. I mean, this is it's just an excellent marketing piece. But for people who want to know that it's there. You may have like model shots or photo product photos. And some, I mean, I've worked with so many different companies, but you not being your customer means whatever you and I think is probably the best at doing in is probably the worst performing by the end of it. It's always weird where like, you would guess, okay, based on all these factors, it should be this kind of thing, but you still need to test. So you need to put enough money behind the test. So it's you actually get a result you can be fined conclusive. So I kind of ran through a couple ideas about some of those like a customer testimonial video reviews, you can use limited time offers and promotions. The tricky thing about that is you can train your audience very quickly, or sort of tracking the kind of people that are looking for discounts, you really want to stay away from that. In general, you want to kind of look at sparse, maybe every quarter every month using that as a kind of attractor. To me promotions are excellent for advertising, because they give them an additional incentive to kind of jump on it take that action now you could be on the fence, just go ahead, take the action. But it's not a good way to run the business, especially through email and things like that, you definitely want to work with someone like ERISA who can understand how to segment who to give discounts to who shouldn't really get that discount offer, and how to kind of work through the messaging on that side. But I've seen it and it's basically impossible to get out of it, the stop doing the promotions, and they're so accustomed to and he increases increased the BOGOs and the 40% off and all this, they won't do anything for this. So I would really try to stay away from that if he can, and look instead of the fact that you're paying top dollar to acquire top dollar customers. And then your your responsibility is to kind of understand that customer and provide them what they're looking for. And in doing so you will win. But they're almost there isn't a way to kind of trick them into buying something that they're not going to be interested in or based on any kind of little gimmick. So it is I think it's just the best way to look at it. This is a communication process. We don't know all the answers, but we're going to go through this process to kind of decode what's going on here. And the more that you understand, kind of behind you. So you don't have to resend that same money they find the same answer. You just kind of get to this series of ads. Respond, you know, our audience responds to this to this type. And so then you just cut up all All the other stuff, and then they just lead everyone through this funnel. And you know, at that point, you should have a pretty reliable, you know how many convert, what your costs are things of that nature. And you can do more of the kind of behind the scenes business organization. But behind the scenes like brand story, video, user generated content of any sort, seasonal collection, highlights, gift guides, bestsellers, new arrivals, things like that. These are all good categories that don't have to have promotions attached to it that it's, it's kind of a unique or novel little push to get them interested. But definitely try all of these and see what works. What I do is, as far as targeting TOS definitely want to segment by category, like a ring buyer is not the same as a necklace buyer. And so that used to be my biggest, I guess organizing principle is really focusing on the per category breakdowns. But in order to do that, if you let's say you have five categories of products, then you have to attach a $20 a day budget to each of those campaigns to keep them all going. And so if you have the budget to do that, go for it. Otherwise, I would say if your earrings or your your statement piece, start with a category, start with a category to an audience. Based on what you can look at the data you already have, you've already paid for this data. So use that data shape, do a test to an audience with a product group, and basically test like what type of ad did this group respond with. So you start to kind of spin plates for, okay, we figured out with this group response to Great, let's add an additional one for this category. And he kind of, you know, you can segment out your testing based on your budget in this way. But ultimately, you're creating little pipelines between a variety of personas, a variety of categories, and a variety of creative types that they may respond to creative, like promotional offers, or, you know, just types of engagement. And maybe they're over on Pinterest. But I would say honestly, like as far as what you spend on these platforms, I would increase my budget on Google. By far, I would say I would think about it like 5050 At worst, or 7030. Google side like Google is where the best customers are. And the p max campaign type and the shopping campaign types are excellent at getting in all the different places where people are ready to buy something. So you do want to pay to be there if you're trying to generate capital and make things work. But it takes a while to get that going. So I definitely say that's a like the primary leg. And then Facebook. Google works better when Facebook is on and also vice versa. So they do play in hand, like you may introduce yourself to someone on Facebook, but then they search you on Google. And because they've already come to your website, Google knows, hey, this person is already visited your website, and they're searching something related to you. Now I'm going to serve the ad. And so it this barbell strategy, I would continue to do until you're probably in like the 20,000 a month range just on Google, maybe up to like five on on Facebook. At that point. If you wanted to, you could spend like 10 bucks a day on tick tock or like 10 bucks on Pinterest to like access that audience. And the main reason you'd want to do that is it'd be like a really, really narrow version of what you're doing on Facebook and Google. So you take your best performing stuff on Facebook, because that's like the best place to test. And you take the best performing stuff and maybe put it on Pinterest or put it on Tik Tok. If it matches the kind of style of content it's on there. And what you'll do is there's a, there's a Pinterest pixel, just like Facebook pixel, there's a tick tock pixel, you should, you should go ahead and put those on there. Now, even if you're not doing any advertising there so that you can collect the data over time. But when you decide to, you know, let's throw 100 bucks and tick tock and just kind of get some interest there, I would think about it that way until you're really maxed out on these other ones. Because they're just a lot less reliable. And even if they do, if you see them working for other people, I guarantee whatever is working, it will only last for like three months. And then their business will be confused because they don't know what to do from there. So it's good to just add little spurts of kind of new people. But what you're really doing is you're you're just grabbing some intention from this area over here, you're bringing them to your site. And then now all of the pixels on your site are grabbing the data. So now you can market to them on Facebook and Google and all these other places and email and stuff like that. So you're basically paying to just get eyeballs, but where you bring them needs to make sense. And it needs to collect all the data and it needs to send them you know all the emails and additional things to kind of generate that sale. But you should really be focused on your existing customers. How can I get people who've already bought from me To buy again, talk to them, you know, and figure out, how can I make your friend buy? You know? Or how can I get you to buy the 10th item from our collection. And I think you really want to think, think about that. Because if you have Shopify or any kind of E commerce system, you could probably get through and see like your top eight, who purchased for me the most. And you really want to look at some of the segments and talk to some of those people in particular and see what they think is great about your products, and then copy their language and use it for your messaging on ads. This is the kind of funnel that's going to end up having a lot of success.

    But like with a shoe buyer, okay, so just kind of a marketing lesson. But that person has no shoes, they need them the most. And you may think like, this is the person I need to sell my product to, they need it. But the person that has an entire closet full of shoes is the person that's the easiest to sell to, because they're good at buying shoes, they know what they know how to assess the whole situation. So you do want to sell to people who are used to buying a lot. And if you're spending a lot of time and money on raising that person to the activation point where they buy when you just want to go where the buyers are, and you want to pay top dollar just to take their interest from someone else. And then you want to give them something that they actually want, which you can learn through the feedback loop. And also kind of copying, here's another like obvious tip, but they'll look at your competitors and steel, what they're doing, they have done the same process. So you can kind of borrow their money and their answers and see what kind of emails or sending out what kind of messaging works for them. If they're similar enough, maybe start there, you can kind of save yourself some money by saying, hey, like the model shots are where they're focusing on and they're in business, and they're doing great, let's try that approach and see if that works, and kind of borrow some of their approaches. But, you know, if you look at it as you have to know your market, so it's really about just kind of turning over these rocks and kind of seeing what's on the other side, instead of just imagining like, this is how I want things to be just gonna see what's out there and connect the dots. Little by little, if you do this over time, you'll just smooth out all these little problems. And what you're really doing is you're you're making your business what these people tell you they want it to be, and then you win. So yeah, I can really go from anywhere from there, I just wanted to kind of touch on some of the main, like bottlenecks, I guess I know people are constantly dealing with. But if there's any direction, like if you want to talk about creative, or you know what kind of ro s you expect, and things like this, we can go wherever.

    Yeah, question from Zoe, in the chat. What are your thoughts on the Facebook audience recommendation versus target audience.

    So if you say, hey, Facebook, I want to buy your data, you're gonna get a discount, because you're just kind of giving them the the license to decide, you can do that pretty well, using like the advantage plus, in particular, like also the look alikes, if you give them enough data up front. So I wouldn't really start out with that, I definitely would start out with a more targeted approach. And the reason it's going to be more expensive is because you're not targeting anyone else. But those people. So you just have to think the more customization and control that I have, I'm amplifying my cost. But I may also be getting better data about what's going on here. So if you're testing, like your website's conversion rate, sure, you can send like anyone and everyone over here and kind of get a general sense. But if you're trying to target a certain message to a certain audience, you really shouldn't, you know, do the broader unless, I mean, you know, honestly, a lot of the pros and Facebook do these like naked broad campaigns. And that is what it looks like at the advanced stage, you have to do the testing. And then when you find the best ad you've ever run and the best audience, then you can just kind of throw a bunch of ads in a bucket and let Facebook decide and get that discount. But because you have so much data, it actually works the way you want it to. I at least have a campaign that is remarketing. Inside of that I have multiple ad sets. One is targeting people who could have just gone to the site today to the next three days. And it's saying, hey, you know, take action, it's almost like a cart abandonment email. And that's type of urgency, then if they haven't heard to steal, and so I exclude and it's like day four to seven, or even up to 14, depending on how long the nurture then you're saying like, Hey, here's some additional benefits. Like you may have missed this on the site, like, you know, here's that brand story, or here's, here's our latest stuff that's that we just can't you know, here's our latest promotion, things like that. So it's like a companion to what you would do in the emails, and then I guess beyond 14 days to maybe 30 or even Last bit longer, you just kind of throw out some of the stuff you're putting in email, here's our seasonal thing, here's our top, our best sellers and things like this just to give them another chance and get in front of them. But at some point, they probably will convert, it's usually because they're busy, or they're just, you know, they just hadn't got the information yet. So giving them a sequence of those types of ads targeting the remarketing groups, people are going to decide people have added to cart, things like this. And then, and then the other campaign will be prospecting. And that would be broken down by ad set into categories. Or you could just pick a category. And within that you should, you should probably test a little bit with a targeted audience reach to specifically designate who you're going for. And then when you get enough data, you can build a look alike based on purchases. That's kind of a middle ground where you're telling Facebook, okay, from this data, make an audience, I want to find more people like this, there are some a couple little tricks we could do where rather than doing what everyone else is, which is the purchase, which you definitely still want to do as your like goal. But you may want to target or look alike with people who spent the longest on my website. So like no one else is doing that. And your data will be different than what everyone else is doing. But you're also I've found that that kind of works more people that visit like a certain number of pages, you can kind of think creatively about how to, like, get to a pool of data that might be useful without necessarily going to like the main options they provide. Because they let you look alike on at any event. So if there's an event, like a subscribe, or signup to email, like you may be able to run a look alike off that and find more people, you know, for its own little funnel there. So it is about driving purchases, you want to spend the money, like you're driving purchases to get the highest quality people who are most likely to die. If you did a target, targeting optional Facebook, for Add to Cart, you're gonna get people who constantly add to cart and they don't buy. And that's kind of a trick that I'll use when they check a super low budget like $10 a day $20 A day or something, I'll start out a campaign at Add to Cart, because I know that I can get enough events logged with my budget for Add to Cart, now I have data to work with now I can start to say, hey, find me something else a little deeper, that funnel. But if you're just starting out super small budget, you may want to do a lower event in the funnel like initiate checkout or something like that. Just don't do pageviews don't do link clicks, because you're gonna get garbage. So you need to do an event is conversion based, but you could somewhat get creative about what that event is. If you look at it as your goal is to bring people here, capture their information, hopefully a sale, but your real goal is to nurture that customer ongoing. So if you really focus on that part of your business, and a lot of these a lot of jewelers that I've worked with that are really more advanced, they can have 70% of their revenue coming from email alone. And they're still running, you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars a month or hundreds of 1000s in advertise. But that's because they have to be super competitive to get those extra new eyeballs. But you know, they've already cultivated that audience, this audience knows that they're familiar, they've seen him from here, they're somewhere else. Just kind of another one off ideas, you could start a Facebook group, where people can come and hang out for free. And you can just that's maybe one way to spy on the customers and like, put ideas out to them, ask them questions, see what they're talking about, hey, I got this item. What do you think about it, you know, with this dress or something, and you know, the people will talk and you can kind of see what it is it's you know, interesting, from a different perspective, I've seen that work pretty well, where you can kind of have a little member club on Facebook, sort of definitely loyalty programs, things like that. Anything that's kind of in the back end to get sticky. With coming back in part of the club, being a member of something. This is kind of important, if you want that longevity where people, you know, treat customers and you know, it's worth thinking about things like that.

    What do you think about brand awareness campaigns?

    There, I mean, it's almost a waste of money. The only thing I would kind of think about what that is if you wanted to do a much cheaper test to see like, this ad had a higher click through rate than another one. So maybe spend, like, you know, a couple dollars to do a small test before you launch a bigger test. But again, with brand awareness, you're gonna get people who like stuff on Facebook all day, they may never leave and go to another website and purchase something but it will find people who engage and so I do think you just have to pick the goal that you really Want to go for at the beginning, and you're going to have to just pay the cost. And I think I've realized, I think that's what I'm really best at when I work with my clients is that they've heard a lot of these things before, but they may not be able to put everything together and lead on the good foot, basically, you know, and so I really helped them get all these things put together. And then, you know, embark on this, this little journey together, because there's a lot, you know, it's infinitely complex. And we're really just trying to create an experiment that gives us a result, and neither proves what we thought was right or wrong, or teaches us something. And then we take that lesson, and we modified the funnel from there. But it wouldn't shock me, you know, but I don't think there's almost no customers or clients that I've ever worked with that have a marketing plan. It's in detail. So that's the hardest part of your business in general, is just put down what you do know now, write it down, like how, what channels are you currently using to get customers think about a good, like, somebody's probably bought from your store before, see what those cohorts look like, you know, is it half from this source half from that source? Get a picture of what it is now. And then you can start to find little segments of that funnel and say, What can we do to improve this section, or, you know, and work from the back forward. Because these are people who've already gone through the funnel, they should already have all the details, if they're missing something at that stage, then you need to fix that because everyone else is going to go through that at some point. So you know, clean up the back end and make sure they can purchase that all the options are there. And it's you know, there's no issues at that stage and work up to the prospecting side. But in theory, if you do all this right, then you should be able to essentially cut out a lot of the advertising at some point. Another important thing I wanted to mention is it, especially with jewelry, I think a lot of folks in this, the biggest trap is the Valentine's Day trap. Like, I think he basically shouldn't even spend any money at all, for that holiday. Or a lot of these other like jewelry focus, like Mother's Day, Mother's Day is great. But these are often people who aren't regular jewelry buyers, but also your competition is throwing all their money at the same thing. So your costs are higher, your competition's higher, what I think is you want to be constantly advertising in the slow seasons to acquire customers, so you can email them before these holidays happen for free, while everyone else is paying all this money to reach people who are just window shoppers. So I've just seen it so many years in a row that I'm like, we did everything right, then like no one's buying on Valentine's Day, and the cost just don't make sense. So I think that's probably counterintuitive. But you know, thinking that way is it I mean, you are kind of working in a zone where like your competition is doing all the stuff, you don't really want to compete at all, you want to have something that's unique. And then you don't have to you just, you just kind of amplify it. So and maybe just one little other thing too is like if you have a retail store, one of your best things to do is set up a smart local campaign, or just basically like a foot traffic campaign, you can do that in both Facebook and Google, you can get away with about $1 a day there, and it will seriously impact the business, it's like the lowest cost way to, to advertise successfully in any way, is just bring people to my business as the goal because the cost per click cost per views like sub Penny. And so if you have a retail store, definitely spend like, you know, between one and $10 a day on that on each channel, that will definitely put kind of a floor under the business locally. And then I think you take a lot of the feedback you get from people in the store. And you elevate that onto your website and your other marketing materials. Like I also work with, like plumbers and roofers and different people b2b. You can see and I asked, it's just so obvious, it's funny, but I'm like, you know, why isn't this element of your sales presentation on your website, you know, and it just these things that kind of slipped when you're focused on so many different things. But your website really should just be a sales replacement for you. It's a virtual sale. So it's like, whatever you would do in a showroom, or kind of like how you would showcase this at a at a at a speaking event or one at a convention or something like that is the same thing that should be on the website, because that's the same kind of replicating that experience. So your marketing should be amplifying your sales, in a sense, like you're in your sales is really communication between you and the buyer, who you should be intimately familiar with through this whole process. So it at some point, you're basically speaking their language and that's like kind of magic, because they're like, Wow, how do you know this? Because you've done it so many times. And, you know, I think that's what it looks like to do it successfully because when you're trying to find a footing and look at all the numbers and the platforms and this and that it's hard to get a grip but If you look at the picture that way, you're just kind of nourishing customers increasing your knowledge of like, what this person wants, and maybe your buyers. I mean, that could happen. So you could pick another buyer to target, you know? So yeah, any other any other kind of like topics or ideas? Yeah.

    It's wild how much stuff you need to think about before you do advertising. I think a lot of us who were like, oh, Facebook ads, social media ads, Google ads, that's like just the answer, you know, like you don't, it's just like,

    sadly enough, it was, it was when I first started doing this, like, you could just kind of throw everything together and press play, and you put in $1, and get 10, or 20. out, it was insane. So now the row as if you get a 3x row as doing jewelry, that's excellent. And so you really need to look at your margins of your products you can look at, I mean, if you have a higher margin product, use that in your advertising, you know, take some of the lower margin products out of what you're promoting, because it just doesn't make sense. If they do, you know, come there. So there's a whole bunch of levers you can pull. But I think if you kind of use the anchor of this as the conversation, and you're kind of output is this customer journey, you can start to identify, hey, we have a 3% conversion rate at this part of the funnel, you can start to put your business in. It make sense visually, and kind of the cool thing too is if you do that visually, then you can show someone else, maybe a team member, or maybe a marketing person that wants to help you. And they can immediately understand what's going on. Right. So I think when I realize it's just a human thing, but like nobody does this, and there's just so much inefficiency. So it is hard work and super hard work to just sit down and like take notes or draw something I realize, you know, but it's like the most impactful stuff you can do for your business. And when it's done, it's done, you just you just add to it from there. So I think that's, that's the first step is do a complete audit of what's going on what have we done so far, what has worked, and cut out a lot of the other stuff and do some tests moving forward to prove those things. And if you prove them, then hit the gas, you know, because some of these opportunities don't last forever, or it may be a seasonal opportunity. There's a couple of just random ideas that like, there are options to target people with birthdays, in Facebook, like have a birthday in March, well, you could sell them a birthday type product, or you know, and there's a lot less people doing that type of targeting, you can even target friends of friends, birthdays, people, the anniversaries, things like just uncommon targeting options. And you do want to kind of test some of these and kind of explore, you know, a lot of these different things, but had another thing that kind of slipped my mind, but there's all these little tiny tricks and stuff. But you know, I wanted to put the big picture there, because it's just the thing that you should be focused on in your business, not so much logging into Shopify and studying the numbers, you should be putting these pieces together because the numbers will follow through naturally if you do that. But yeah, I mean, your your website should 3% conversion rate, overall, just a random metric, that's what I would be targeting. I mean, that would be great. If it's under 1%, you have a major problem. And you need to really like work on the website side of things. Because even if even if you're spending a lot of money and bring in tons of traffic, that's like not good targeted traffic or whatever, you should still be in about 1% Total website conversion. So that would tell me that there's kind of like a bigger issue that might need to be addressed on a website. between one and three, there's like improvement, but if you're already at three, you know, pat yourself on the back. That's, that's pretty good. And if it's any higher than that, I mean, you know, just keep doing it. So.

    But yeah, question in the chat here. Do you see a difference between marketing jewelry on Facebook versus Instagram? Or do you always advertise to both?

    I do both. And the reason is, again, there were certain times in the past where over all it was cheap enough for like a slight change here. It didn't show up as much. But if you you want to have almost everything in the in the campaign that you set up, pretty automated, pretty standard, the recommended stuff. And the reason is, because you're getting that discount trade off, they're kind of like on your back to help you in that way. And then just change the things that you need to focus on for your test. Like it needs to be this audience or this one is this creative set or this category. And and then to apply enough budget to let it get through the testing. If you don't give it enough budget, he's gonna kind of choke out every day and run out of budget at nine o'clock in the morning and your data is not going to be sufficient to give you an answer. So it'd be better to do one good test with all your budget. And then you know, kind of roll that sequence then restrict everything with a small budget but have the whole thing so Oh yeah, we see these little Miss

    D. Some of the designers in this group have like very high end jewelry, or a lot of my clients are very high end it does this work for that? Are there people, that's

    better? Yeah. I mean, I like the costume jewelry and the lower end stuff is much harder. Because I think the fine jewelry is better because you're a of these higher, you can afford to compete a little bit. And it's you're competing the same way when you're doing like the cheaper stuff. So I would say it's much better if your ARV is at least $100, much better for the way higher than that. Because your click costs are going to be virtually the same, the whole process is virtually the same as always mattered, it's just a higher value product, I think. And then it also helps you eliminate a lot of people who just can't afford it. So the kind of helps you there not have to target everybody and test the whole world, you can just limit it to the higher end buyers and speak to them directly. So

    what kind of things can you like add to your targeting, or like document that will reach a higher end buyer like zip codes? For sure.

    Yeah, there's there's options in Facebook for percent, like top 5%, income earners, top 20. A couple of those is also in Google as well, the thing you don't want to do is eliminate the unknown. Because the unknown is people who just say I don't want to give them my data. And it could be anyone. But unknown is usually one of the better performers. And it's also going to be cheaper relative to the known because they don't know. So there's discounting. But because it's all an auction platform. So there are calculated costs and all these different factors. And so if you just want to swipe, they want it to where you just swipe the garden to Facebook, and then they handle the rest. And it can work. If you've already done all this other stuff. If for some reason, you've already done all the website stuff, and you just have the right ads and everything was there, it would be perfect. But what the tool is really used for is to help you use the communication process to go outbound start conversations to listen and to kind of gather that data so that then you can fix the stuff. And then yeah, however they find it from that point, your close rate should be much higher, your margins should be better, all that kind of stuff. And then you can really afford to spend a lot more money acquiring customers. So I think this is you know, he's been talking about kind of the strategy to get to that place where you have a solid foundation, a bunch of customers you can tap into. And then you know, maybe go to the next level. And I think a lot of people start at that level thinking it's just this big prospecting adventure, but it really used to be spending your money on for advertising to understand what kind of customers really resonated with what I have going on here? Or is there something I can change to, to speak to these people better? Or to give them something that I'm not giving them now? So it in a pretty good view? One little thing? Yeah. Yeah.

    Is this something that like, a novice could do themselves? Like, is this something like a designer who has like, you know, no, like, has never done this before? 1,000%?

    Yeah, I mean, it can be done. The problem is, can you log into Google or Facebook, set up your own ads using the guided tool and get some results? Yes. The, the problem is, once you get those results, you're still in the same place, which hopefully a lot of the stuff I talked about today is it's like just little anchors for you to kind of help guide like, Okay, this might be the wrong direction, because there's so many of these pitfalls, where it's like, Okay, here's a good number, let's follow it. But it doesn't actually mean what you think it does. And so I've tried to kind of anchor like, what's really going on here is we're trying to develop our understanding of our customer, serve them better and better, they will tell you, I mean, I don't know any clients that I've worked with, who've literally just go talk to your customers, they will tell you pay them to do it. But that little payment that you give them is going to be far in excess words. What I mean, what else, you know, they spend 1000s of dollars a monitor to get a kind of an idea or whatever. So just go straight to the source, ask him give him free stuff. Because that lesson that you can use will save you tons of money and all the other stuff you're doing and just get you closer to that goal. So I just think, to me, there's a lot of approaches, but to me, that's kind of the one that makes the most sense. It gives you like a goal to get to. And at some point, you'll be like, Yeah, I mastered this, like, I know, my buyers are all happy there today, tell me what they want. And we just make that and give it to them and we make money and everything's cool. And, you know, you kind of let your customer shake the business because it's it's ultimately what it is, you know, you can't force it down their throat and you know, just be expensive to try. So I think if you kind of look at that a little bit more humble like, you know, we're Here to help them and take the information from them and use it, they'll reward you with with what you're looking for on the other

    side. So, yeah, for our customers just ask them what they like, and they don't like what are some good part? Do you have an idea of some good questions to ask them?

    Um, I mean, they're, it's kind of overthinking like at first focus group or whatever, if you do spend some money or get them like honors in or something like that. You can get more detailed ask about, you know, bigger questions about who that person is, what inspires them to buy, what kind of places do they like to shop? What kind of features of OSI are interesting or like, what's kind of annoying, just pit, you want to just kind of pick up these things that they may not even think are important. Even I think you're important, but that's what everyone, including your competitors is missing, because no one's really saying it. So I think it's much more the idea of a natural conversations and a very pointed, you know, what's this? What's that? You could maybe put that out on like a website, toggled like feedback tool, or something like that, just to collect some passive feedback about something like was There was everything on the site? Gray, did you have any issue, please write it down here. Like, I think you could get away with that. But I wouldn't really even try to do like, the higher level stuff. Again, find your person who's bought the most reach out to them offer him like money or something free, like something substantial. Because just one conversation with that person will have way more than if you talk to all these other people. So I would literally start at the most purchased and go down from there. And just get like one or two or three good personal conversations, maybe there's an older person and the younger person like, but that's going to give you so much that you can use to Okay, let me speak to that person. And when you do that, I mean, they're already buying, but there's gonna be tons of other people who show up. And they feel like, you know, that's the whole thing is you're speaking to them. And I mean, marketing is really the right message to the right person, at the right place at the right time. And you could do that when there was no privacy regulations, because they were able to like maneuver like the right message, the right time, everything was all dialed in. And now the fact that that's just not a passively, it's just not how it works. There's all these like blocks to why you can't just swipe your card and just let Facebook do it, you have to get a little bit more creative, which I think is great, because there's a lot of people in business who are not even really like doing half of this, they don't even care, they're just like, I'm gonna exploit this opportunity run a Shopify store or whatever. And so they're just gonna burn their money, because all they know how to do is advertise, it's not going to work for them. But the people who are interested in building a business, your business is your customers. I mean, you know,

    yeah, I love that I love the way that you're thinking about it, like a couple things that I really liked, that you said is like one thing about the customer you already have and talk to them. I mean, questions I would ask is like, you know, what do you like about my product? What draws you to it? How often do you wear it? Like, what are you to purchase? Like, have like, kind of a natural conversation there? You know, what do you think the brand story is that I'm telling like, that would be an interesting, yeah. But I also love that you mentioned focusing on local because even if you don't have a storefront, like if you have a local studio, where you do like work, or things like that, like leaning into local, just in general, I think it's such a smart move. because not everybody's doing that people are like have gotten it into their heads that they want to talk to everyone like the entire country or like the entire world. And it's like, well start where you're at.

    That is the thing. It's that kind of difficulty. Well, if I cut this person, this group out, and I'm not going to get them as a customer, you can have multiple campaigns, you can have multiple things going on. But when you do create a message, it needs to be targeted, it needs to be for that person. So I mean, literally Google the communication process. There's a speaker, a listener, there's a an encoding and decoding. So a lot of people stop there, like they could not understand completely or not have the right words when they're conveying it. But there's also noise, which is where everybody gets lost. And then there's the feedback part, which no one even cares about. And that's the most important one because that's what ties the loop and keeps you know, makes it better over time. So yeah, I would just It is that easy, but it's just so many reps and you have to you have to plan on doing the right thing, you know, rarely happens on accident in that way. So if it did, it would just be super wasteful getting there and painful. So hopefully I made it a little bit less painful this journey. So

    yeah, no, this was really helpful. The last thing I'll say is I loved how much you leaned on like you have to be sending emails you have to have, you know your welcome email setup like your automations like thinking through that stuff. And then I wanted to ask like, do you think that like your ads that you're running should be like in along with the email so like, if you're focused on statement earrings in your ads, like the emails coming out are the same kind of information. Yeah,

    that's definitely I think kind of ties it together. Because when you're spending all your time focusing on your customers, then what they like is what's going to help you get more like them. So I would really focus on after they get on the website and gain some awareness of, I would, I would say, this is where to focus on. And then outwardly, it's just kind of, you know, inviting more people to join that thing. But a lot of people, they're leaving their their potential customers to know where it's just, hey, here's a store, you can buy stuff, but there's like, there's no showroom experience, there's no like, even attempt to virtually create that experience. Or like the follow up, hey, you know, we have a Facebook group, if you're active on there, you can join it and talk to everyone else. Like just these. If you think about all the major corporations and big brands that you engage with and buy stuff from, they do these things. And that's the hard part for small businesses to do. Because it seems like it takes a lot of different people to be experts to this and a chatbot for that and all this stuff. But the key is really just limiting it down. If you talk to these people, they're probably not going to say I need a chatbot. But what they do say you should focus on that. And that's the way to kind of clear out the noise is talk to the people, and then just do that you don't need to try everything, you know, to test within those kind of those margins. And that's the 8020 rule, like 80% is going to be wasteful. So figuring out the 20% You need to focus on is your lever, it's a 5x lever. So same with like the adspend, or whatever the one that's performing the best just cut the other budget, put it on that one, and you can actually scale. So yeah, happy to help. I don't have like an active kind of I used to have a whole bunch of jewelry clients. And I wouldn't say I got away from it. But the it seemed like the level of need is like it was almost like an employee. And I can't do that for so many people because it is like, I can't be in the business running all this stuff. I can easily do the ads. But I've also kind of shifted to where I'm doing much more consulting, and I'm kind of like, it's like a hybrid of like, I run the ads, but also guide and coach through that whole process. But I really would I if I were gonna do anything. Or if you wanted to work with me, it's more of a 90 day process. Like, let's, let's try this. And then we'll both know where to go from there. So nothing crazy, you know, just based on kind of what you need help with and there's always something that you'll need help with. So we could just address that in that period if you if you want.

    That's great. Do you mind if I share your email address? Yeah,

    sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm open. I'm available. I just I'm not like running and gunning for your, for your business or whatever. But um, but I'm more than more than open to help. And in to help you know if it makes sense. Yeah,

    this is great. Thank you so much. Thanks, everybody for watching. i It's a lot to think about.

    But yeah, if you have any follow up questions or whatever, feel free to reach out to you. Cool, sounds good. Thanks, guys. And good luck.

    I guess I