The AR Show: Amy LaMeyer (WXR Fund) on Areas of Investment Focus and the Gender Gap in Venture Funding

5:00PM May 10, 2021

Speakers:

Jason McDowall

Amy LaMeyer

Keywords:

vr

companies

yc

people

technology

ar

female

female founders

xr

virtual

space

startups

experience

invested

called

conference

venture fund

connect

founder

fund

Welcome to the AR show right dive deep into augmented reality with a focus on the technology, the use cases and the people behind them. I'm your host Jason McDowall. today's conversation is with Amy LaMeyer. Amy is the managing partner of WXR fund where she invests in early stage spatial computing and artificial intelligence companies with female leadership. Amy spent the first half of her career at Akamai technologies, which helped enable the early web to scale. There she led the diligence and integration of 20 deals worth more than $1.5 billion dollars. Now she's fully immersed in AR and VR as an advisor and investor. And she was named one of the top 30 people to watch in augmented reality by next reality. Amy is also a lover of music and the author of the sound in AR chapter in the book conversions how the world will be painted with data by Charlie Fink.

In this conversation, Amy shares her observations on demographics and trends after attending the recent yc Demo Day and other events. And she makes the case for and the challenges facing female founded companies. We talk about the venture fund, and she profiles the areas in which she's most excited. She goes on to describe some of the founder traits she wants to see,

we really liked it when the founder is an expert in the problem space. So the example that I gave with Carrie really knowing, you know, going through the experience with her mom with Alzheimer's, Neha Singh of obsess was at Vogue for a long time. And so she really understands fashion and, and therefore, virtual retail aamra from all 3d, sold her first company to Bed, Bath and Beyond. And so she really understands the product, housewares space, you know, and so on. So we really appreciate the founders that know the problem that they're trying to solve. They're not just playing with new technology.

As a reminder, you can find the show notes for this and other episodes at our website, the AR show calm. Let's dive in.

Amy, how did you first get into VR?

That's a great question, Jason. And it's actually one of my favorite stories. I originally worked for a company called Akamai technologies. I started there back in 2000. And we helped to scale the internet. We were building the internet infrastructure. I was a caching global system. And I worked there for 16 years, actually. And so over the course of that time, we saw, you know, the internet grow and streaming grow, and the switch and move to mobile. And eventually, the internet became more of a commodity, right? It's something that everybody had versus something that needed to be built. And we shifted as a company to cybersecurity, which is absolutely important, but just didn't resonate with me as much as, as connecting people on a global level. I wasn't as excited about fighting this constantly fighting this enemy. I was in m&a for most of my time at aka my doing diligence and integration of tech acquisitions. And in January of 2016, we were doing diligence on a cybersecurity company in Vegas during the time of CES. And that's when I saw the Rift and the vibe, because that's when they were being launched. And when I saw that, I realized that that was the next wave of computing. That is how we would start communicating with each other on a digital level. And I knew it was really early. But I'd been at Akamai a long time. And I needed to be re inspired. So I started to do some research into what was happening in the space and eventually left the company Later that year, and started to do advising and investing and, and speaking in VR and AR

see really jumped in with both feet. I did.

It's really exciting. And I actually remember the day that I had my first VR experience because it was after CES, but almost made the decision before I had ever tried VR. I hadn't made the decision, but I'd almost made the decision. So it was two months later, as in it was March 10. And I was with someone that's been in the space for a while Joe Boyle. And we went to Rothenberg ventures. He was working there at the time. And he gave me five different VR experiences. I'd never met this person in my life. He was a friend of a friend, who just I had mentioned, I was interested in VR, and I wanted to get to know it more. And someone connected me. And Joe showed me Tilt Brush and an underwater experience and a Red Bull race car experience in a fashion one where you could actually walk around the woman that was in the dress. And one other experience. It was just it was great. It was memorable. I mean, I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. And then you were hooked. And then and then I was and then then I think it was literally that week I get my notice.

Wow. And how is it the unit of wading into VR and AR you mentioned that you became an advisor, investor focused on these sorts of companies at that stage. market since 2016, not that long ago, calendar wise, but it seems like a very long time ago in terms of progress to technology, what were the ways that you were able to kind of lean in at that time,

I have had a lot of experience working with startups and I had run an accelerator for cybersecurity. So I started with that, right. This is what I can help just startups with in general. But I also remember, every day for probably at least three months, I started my mornings listening to Kent beis voices a VR podcast. And that's how I educated myself on what was going on in this space. And back then, I'm not sure if he still is doing it was he was putting out almost daily episodes, I think he's, I ran into him actually in a virtual venue recently. And he said he was getting close to his 1000 episode, which is pretty unbelievable. But yeah, so I just started edge reading and educating myself there, and then going to meetups and just starting to talk to people and learn what was happening in the space.

Yeah, amazing. And now you are a co Founder and Managing Director at W xR fund. And we're gonna get, we're gonna get into that. But we were chatting before this, and you'd mentioned that you had a chance to go to the recent yc Demo Day. Can you talk a little about yc has this, this aura about it as being the preeminent startup accelerator? You know, and now in some ways, I guess VR and AR are a bit more mainstream, who see these types of companies getting pushed through the pipeline, I think scope AR actually went through yc A number of years ago, there's some other AR and VR companies that I'm familiar with that have been through yc. And so it's now in the mix, possibility. yc what what companies stood out for you when you attended yc Demo Day?

Well, let me back up a little bit and say, with yc Demo Day, this year, there were 320 companies

that pitch

Wow, right? And I'm pretty sure they stated that 18% of those were gender diverse founders. So that means 82%, all male. And they didn't give us statistic. But I would be surprised if even 5% were all female founders, right. And so with w xR, we don't, our investments do have to have a part of our thesis is a female in the leadership team. It doesn't have to be strictly female founders. And in fact, we, we think gender diverse teams are great. But I mean, yeah, I mean, the statistics there, the ratio, there is just not not great. Is that specific to yc? Or is that an example of what's happening across the broader industry, it's certainly an example of what's happening across the broader industry, I just had higher hopes for yc, because they're so well known as an accelerator. And they should have a lot of access to a lot of different companies to be able to be more diverse, right, it should be easier for them. And clearly, that's not what happened. So. So I guess the part of the point is of the 320, companies, only 18%, hit one of our criteria. And then the other criteria of our thesis is that it's a VR AR or AI based startup. And so that cut the number of companies down to two

to two. And what was interesting, what's notable about those two companies,

so one was venue. And they actually did a demo day virtual session with different panelists and almost an expo type. Because of that, what because what they do is they're a virtual venue for conferences. So I spoke with Jeremy lamb, Annette and actually spoke on one of the panels, they're in their virtual venue.

So you participated in their Demo Day?

I did. Okay, go. Right. Right. Not in the official yc Demo Day of with all of the 320 pitches, but they also called it Demo Day. But yeah, it was, it was in a virtual venue the day the day before that had panels.

Very interesting. And what is the just to kind of break down this concept they're trying to create, they're trying to recreate some of the benefits of being on the expo floor, within a virtual environment, as we have hop in, in many these other platforms now trying to recreate the conference experience as a whole. And they're trying to create the expo side of that conference experience. Is that right?

Yeah. I mean, no, actually, they're trying to create the conference experience as a whole. But what I found the most unique considering that I've seen lots of different virtual venues is their Expo experience was more it actually looked exactly like an expo would look with a whole bunch of different booths if you're walking up and down the aisles of the conference Expo. And and so it was one of the better virtual experiences I've had of an expo

They recreate some of the visual elements of the of the expo room experience, right,

even though it was only doing that right. Yeah, but we haven't quite virtually figured out how to do A massive global conference yet and and the other statistic that they were giving me is that they had done a conference a week or two earlier with 800 attendees in a single instance. And so I, as far as I'm aware, there isn't anything that's happened at that scale, either. Now, I wasn't at that conference, I don't know what an 800 attendee simultaneous conference would be, like, virtually. And if it was a pleasant experience, and what the audio is like, or anything like that, like I I don't know. But the concept is interesting. And clearly, as a society, we're looking for some options here, for virtual venues and virtual conferences. What was interesting about the other company you saw, yeah, the other company was actually more AI focused. And so they're a fitness personalized fitness company called Ws, initially using AI to predict classes that that one would want to take, but ultimately looking longer term into using computer vision, and natural language processing, to have some better feedback with the digital system. And also to actually give feedback on the moves that one is making to be able to autocorrect

to actual coaching. Yeah, based on Yeah, that would be Yeah, quite helpful.

Yeah, they're starting in that town, but planning to go global,

we use Apple fitness in the house, and my wife uses it, I think every day. And I use it on occasion, you have slightly different workout workout plans. But when I do use it, I will do some sort of exercise. And at the end, they give you this piece of feedback, which is where are you fit amongst some groups, some population of people who are doing this exercise based on the level of accomplishment, as measured by calories burned, you know, because you're wearing the Apple Watch. And I'm trying to assess this based on the movement with the watch, heart rate and all the rest. And I look at this, and on the one hand, it is motivating for me, because I don't want to be at the bottom of the pack, I want to be ahead of the pack. So I you know, work extra hard force myself through it. But then I look at the results At the end and I'll see somebody, there's somebody the way at the other end, they burn 32 calories over the course of this very intense 20 minute exercise. I think what what is happening, if they're burning 32 calories, it means that they're barely moving, right? They're standing, watching, observing, I don't know what they're doing at the other scale. But anyway, I see I think of this this notion that there's actually computer vision that goes into providing you feedback, which on the one hand might simply be motivational. Hey, you need to be moving during this exercise. This is not for your viewing pleasure. This is for your exercising benefit. The other hand to guide you on technique, but also be I'm sure extremely valuable, especially when you're doing something with weights where poor techniques cause injury. That's super interesting.

somewhat related to that I just spoke with someone that's changing jobs and moving to peloton, the peloton rider this cycling bikes and there's a big community there. But supposedly they're developing some sort of virtual system for the peloton. And I didn't get a chance to look it up. But supposedly it's public information. And I am really interested in that because I'm an super avid peloton writer, I ride at least an hour a day. And also interested in the competitive nature of it and how I can improve upon myself. But I have tried exercising in a VR headset. And it is it is nothing that is appealing to me. I know a lot of people like it. A lot of people are all about supernatural or box or even beat Sabre right, people have lost a significant amount of weight doing that. For me, the headset is still too heavy and too bulky and I don't want to sweat in it. But as we move to smart glasses I am all I'm that is going to that's gonna change fitness in my mind,

using smart glasses for personal fitness is going to be a key use case.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what about key use case, right. But I do think moving from a headset to smart glasses will make fitness fitness from a headset perspective, way more comfortable.

I remember taking a look at some of those companies when they were more nascent, their early stages of funding. And I came to the same conclusion I really struggled with the idea of wanting to wear a bulky headset and sweating in the thing for exercise and and I am honestly surprised at the level of enthusiasm that exhibited by people using these things. And some for you know, not just a one try it in abandon it there seems to be some sort of persistent subscription. I'm with you on that. I think that in the smartglasses head one sort of normal wearable displays or a system you can see the real world as well. I think there's gonna be a company built on that just that concept. I think that that concept is strong enough that it could support software hardware that that means but I think it can be a driving early use case within consumer is this guided instruction around fitness. As you were as we here we are pontificating on the various use cases of these sorts of AR and VR opportunities. But as you were kind of reflect back on the overall yc set of companies you got to die deeply into to whether other sorts of trends that you saw, because you also went to South by Southwest, right? You saw that the virtual you were judging one of the panels there.

My Tina, my managing partner was was judging the startup competition, because you

kind of collectively maybe put your heads together and kind of thought about what's what's happening right now? What are the sorts of interesting trends across maybe yc? across what you saw at South by Southwest? One of the trends that stand out?

Yeah, I mean, gaming is still really hot. Definitely, that continues to be a trend and enterprise, which I think the shift to enterprise was happening before the pandemic. And now just continues, how do we connect remotely? So those two, I think, were strong and continue to be strong, we continue to see that you see it in things like the announcement that magically HP has made over the last few months of, you know, their focus on enterprise. And if you look at Facebook, you know, they clearly have a focus on gaming. So that are reflected in the trends of the of the major tech investors in these spaces as well.

So gaming enterprise, are relevant. They were relevant, that trend was preceding COVID, accelerated during COVID. Do they survive? COVID?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then, you know, I think there'll be a couple others that continue past COVID as well, which is telehealth and maybe slightly less relevant for AR and VR. But certainly, from our perspective, we have this slightly larger scope of including some AI in in our thesis as well, but recently invested in a company that uses AI and smartphones to do digital diagnostics, from a telehealth perspective, company called weebly. And so I think there's no reason even post COVID that we should have to go to a doctor's office, if we aren't feeling well, if there's a way for us to be able to do that from home, right? We're all more familiar with the virtual and whether that be video or you know, something, something more than that in terms of VR or AR. But we're all more adept at connecting in a virtual way versus having to actually drive and go somewhere, or fly and go somewhere for that matter. So I think any of the technologies that enable that convenience, are ones that are going to continue to exist.

Yeah, I feel like the COVID experience have forced a lot of change accelerated a lot of change is was some resistance maybe within I don't know if it was in the hospital system itself, or the doctors and they're just standard way of doing things. But the technology for telehealth has been around for quite some time. And COVID made it a necessity. And so now, we're an opportunity to experiment with an experience that and I had, I had a mind visit with a doctor. And it was great, so much better than having to drive to the clinic and wait in the doctor's office. And I don't love the idea of sitting around a bunch of other people who aren't healthy, especially during a time like this anyway, right? When the issue that I have can be resolved without a direct physical inspection, at least can at least have a conversation about it to determine whether more intense, you know, scans or whatever needs to be done.

So not only more convenient, but also safer. Yeah. And you know, if we take it even a step further, which is better for the environment, right? If we're not getting in a car and driving and we're not getting in a plane and driving don't have to, right, yeah.

But then it's COVID also taught us humans are social creatures, we we like to be able to touch and feel and be around physically other people. Yeah. And so there's, there's something to be said, you know, Steve Jobs was a huge advocate of the bumping into people and the sort of creative sparks and energies and effectiveness that can be had by that sort of coincidental spontaneous interaction.

Right. But wouldn't wouldn't it be great if a pandemic now allows us the best of both worlds? because like you said, it gave it gave areas a bump, almost a catalyst of growth. Another area right is education. So I was talking to a friend of mine in Boston Public Schools, who's a teacher, and he said, he feels like they have accepted new technologies five times faster than they would have before, like five times the amount of technology, you know, five years of technology growth for teachers in a year. Right. And so not only is that five years in a year, but now they're used to consuming that much more new technology. And so that that level of consumption, maybe won't continue to be that vast, but it won't feel as as uncomfortable.

Yeah, it'll be higher than it was before. Right? Yep. And perhaps some teachers who are not as comfortable with technology were forced out of necessity to become more comfortable with it. Exactly. So the whole floor is kind of raised a little bit in terms of what's possible, right. Younger teachers might be a bit more willing just to their own personal use to consume new new technologies more quickly, but now we got a lower higher floor I should say,

which is really exciting for me. From a VR and AR perspective, because I actually think that education is one of the areas that VR will, an air will change the most. But knowing that technology takes a while to adapt, it's an area I've been hesitant to invest in, because I thought it would take more time to get ready. And so I'm actually really excited that there's some acceleration there. You know, that thought of writer player, one in the Oasis and everybody having the same amount, right? That same ability to access content, no matter where you are in the globe, that's super appealing to me. And then if you if you take AI into that, and start to personalize the content as well, and then the retention is higher, and we're already seeing studies based on that. It's it's a really exciting space, it's going to be a really exciting space in the next decade,

to the benefit of of society overall.

Yes,

it feels like education is always one of those things that we just make education, more broadly accessible, that whole society benefits, the economy benefits, everything benefits,

right. And we're seeing Joe Biden and new US leadership, wanting to put more money into K through 12. So that's also useful

for sure, as you were attending, in yc Demo Day, and as Martine was tending the South by Southwest, and in general, you're in a lot of these virtual conferences. There's been an opportunity for these these technologies, these companies to really evolve the experience invest in it. I remember, personally, a year ago, I was in a conference hosted by a hoppin, and I generally thought it was abysmal. Like it was a really poor experience overall, kind of sort of worked by that company raised so much money in that product has gotten so much better over the last 12 months, based on my almost 12 months apart experiences in using the same platform underneath whatever conference was running on top of it. Yeah, that was going a lot better. What's kind of been your take through the most recent experiences you had through yc Demo Day, for example,

not only have platforms gotten better, but also there are more to choose from. That being said, You know, I hear hear a lot. Hey, what what VR platforms can we use for our conference, and in a lot of cases there, there just isn't one ready yet.

On the VR side, specifically,

on the VR side, specifically, you're talking about hopping, which is video based. But I actually completely agree with you. It's, I understand now why it's raised so much money. And to a certain extent, I think part of it is its ability to not only organize the video, but also organize the networking. So I don't know if any of your conferences had the same thing. But they're leaned heavily into chat and messaging, and also heavily into, like that speed dating round technology that they have of connect with somebody every four minutes and have a four minute conversation, then it's going to disconnect you and connect you with somebody else random. And that that was that was a key part of conferences that people needed to replicate somehow, virtually. Yeah. How do you just bump into somebody? Yeah, that's why I think they raised a lot of money. On the VR side, part of it is what we saw a lot is that shift from having to use a headset to being able to use a laptop, right, we saw alt space shift that way, spatial shifted that way, engage, or for Bella, Bella, I think was always that way. So I think that was important. How do you make it cross platform so that a lot of different people can access it?

In those cases where they have the option of going VR or through the laptop? Do they have much VR attendees people actually using the VR rigs?

That's a great question. I tend not to even as a VR investor, many of the platforms are easier to engage with on a laptop.

Yeah. And the benefit on the VR side is not big enough,

that benefit is not big enough, right? Particularly for something like a panel, where you're just talking, if I needed to see a three dimensional object or experience something in 3d, the things I do think have been spectacular in virtual reality, just to move that way for a second is something like Burning Man in all space, that was great. at South by Southwest, somebody invited me to a house party that was literally a duplicate of a house that exists. And that was fantastic. It felt like a party, looking over my shoulder waiting for my friend Maddie to come join me, just like you would at any party. So I think experiences more like that are the ones for at least for me, at least that are more inspiring. But I can absolutely see that as the technology gets better. And we can more easily interact on a three dimensional basis that it will be something that will be desired and useful so that we can feel more in person and more immersed and more embodied.

Yeah. You also are super passionate about music. What have you been doing over the last year you used to go to live shows all the time, and you haven't had that opportunity? So what have you turned to instead?

Yeah, I mean, I used to go to over 100 shows a year. So it was a real switch when the pandemic started. And I think actually, we had a podcast, there was a panel that we had on the AR show because we were supposed to be at South by Southwest. And it was canceled the week before it was supposed to happen last year. And south by is a place that are out y'all, on average, the 40 bands in five days. So. So there's been a variety of different things that I've done in order to connect with music. On the analog side, I bought a record player. And then on the streaming side, what I think has been really interesting are things like Instagram Live, where it's really easy for musicians to be able to use it. And they are getting feedback from their fans real time. So I think those two things are the key there. And then in VR, there's some great things though, the wave had some great experiences. I really liked the fortnight Travis Scott experience was great. That wasn't VR, it was virtual, but at least it was three it was spatial. I think jadu is interesting. There. augmented reality started off as you can make movies and films, short films based on Dancing with popular performers. But now they're moving into almost like a music video interactive music video experience. So that's really interesting. One of my favorite experiences was a band called Miro shot based out of Europe, but they were in a virtual space created by a company called overview arc. And that was half video game and half concert and half interview. It was really interesting, really interesting. And then I'm an advisor and an investor in a company called stage for us. And they're going to come out with their first experience soon been dabbling in their metaverse music metaverse for a while, I also tried some of the Oculus venues, concerts there, they just weren't as inspiring to me. They switched their venues applications so that it used to be where you could connect with your friends. And it was more like a stadium experience. But now you're in small groups of 13, almost in balconies with people that you don't know, it's hard to connect to people that you do know. And to me, it's it's less three dimensional as well. It's more, it's almost like you're watching a flat screen. So it's in less interactive. So I haven't been as inspired by those experiences. But I still have hope for engagement. This is rare, I actually enjoy both CGI experiences and 360 video, I would love to be able to see a concert that I already went to. So someday, but yeah, we still have a little ways to go particularly in terms of audio, audio is hard.

streaming audio is harder, there's a lot of compression that goes on, which is why this interview, whenever I do these interviews, I'm always asking guests to record themselves locally on their side, they don't have to get the benefit of the local recorded audio because it makes a huge difference. Yeah, at least to my here, interior. As a music aficionado. I talked about the yc Demo Day in South by Southwest and part of your thesis is around course, a woman is a member of the executive team. And they got a significant stake in the company. They're not just there as token but they're a key member of the team. And you're focused on this intersection of both the the union of AR VR and an AI. Maybe you can give us an example, or two more of the sort of companies that embody represent the the trends that you talked about that are companies that you are excited about.

So one of the first companies that we invested in is is a company called embodied labs, they use VR technology to train caregivers for the aging population. That's where they started. And then they realized they were getting interest from other companies like Best Buy that were also interacting with the aging population, maybe not as a caregiver role, but just having many interactions. And so they broaden their customer set to not only caregivers, caregiver training, but but anyone interacting with the aging population. So the platform that they have uses VR as a as a tool, so that the employees can experience what it's like to be in the shoes of somebody that maybe can't see as well, or has less mobility, and gives them a sense of empathy. Right? This was when VR first came out in 2016. I feel like we call it the empathy machine a lot. And the notion of empathy, I think has diminished over the past four or five years but it but it is certainly I think one of the keys of virtual reality technology to be able to put yourself in someone else's shoes, and therefore teach the staff how to provide better care how to prevent a fall or how to call them an agitated resident because they've actually experienced it themselves. And the CEO Carrie Shah is spectacular. Happy to support her. She's 33 and she started the company in 2016 And was inspired by her experience with her mother who had Alzheimer's disease. And so direct experience of wanting to make that situation better. They now are in more than 200 Senior organizations and 50 academic institutions to help train healthcare workforce and anyone dealing with aging population. So that, that those are the sorts of companies we're really excited about.

Do you start fun? You mentioned my Tina, already, Martina boykoff was your co founder at W star fund. And so you two have been at this for a little while. But maybe you can take a step back and walk us through what sets this fund apart. You talked about female founder focus, that's ki, ar VR AI, that's key. Maybe you can talk a bit more about the stage and how much the fund typically types to invest in other ways that you kind of see yourself as setting ourselves apart.

Yeah, so we're the only venture fund focused exclusively on women led startups in the VR, AR and AI space. And the reason that we do that is both because we think it's a unique opportunity, as we're starting this new wave of computing, to be able to level the playing field between gender and have more diversity and inclusion as the startups that are making significant impact in this next paradigm. But also, because we've seen firsthand the outsize opportunities that that these investments can deliver and that the research has even shown that females outperform female companies and gender diverse companies outperform male companies. So it's not just a philanthropic proposition here, right. It's it's a true venture fund, just like all the other venture funds that are trying to make money for their investors. So we invest in early stage companies at the seed stage level. At this point, we've invested over a million dollars in five startups, including healthcare, entertainment, retail, and education, all industries, but just those that are focused on using AR VR and AI as a core part of their offering.

So the female founder focus is a strategic advantage. based on the data Yes, what is it about female founders? or What is it about gender diverse teams that you think allows them or results in them being on average, more successful,

I think it's diversity of perspective, and diversity of attitude. And to a certain extent, from the female perspective that unfortunate needs that we have to work harder to prove that we can participate at the same level, the numbers that we've seen from places like BCG and mass challenge, male own startups generating 31 cents per dollar, while female owned startups generating 78 cents per dollar, right, there's a there's a real definition of needing to succeed and proving oneself in this in this space. And then you'll see that against what you know what's actually being invested. So for example, what we're seeing is in 2020, despite the fact that there was a record amount invested in venture in the United States, so more than had ever been invested before, female founders actually raised a billion dollars less than they did the year before. The total

pie went up, not only the share, but the absolute value of the money going from two female founders went down. Right?

Right. So 3.2 billion invested in female founders in 2020 versus 4.2, in 2019. And that's just a fraction of what's totally invested. So it's a lot of different hypothesis of why that's happening, more focus on family. But the other one that we hear a lot is, and that I believe, is the is the network that a lot of men are networked together. And in in a year of doubt, and uncertainty, people went to their what they were familiar with the network's they were familiar with, and and reinvested there, rather than branching out to new, and a lot of the female venture funds are newer, like ours.

So there's a selection bias, right. And based on familiarity, that's part of the hypothesis for at least for what happened in 2020. There's a thought that there was definitely a pullback, as we looked at the statistics and 2020 pullback women were more likely to leave the workforce and focus on family because kids were not going to school, right, they had an extra hand possibly at home in order to make sure that the students were the children themselves were able to function and be safe at home and make progress at school at home. And it was often women who are taking that role. So those are better 2020 possibly those are a bit more unique to 2020. But what are some of the some of the longer term trends what are the underlying reasons like even yc as a fairly progressive, very well known and highly regarded incubator or itself Excuse me, doesn't have very high percentage of female founders. What's, what's wrong? Is it simply that? Is it these trends that are just kind of more persistent? More generally, we just saw more in 2020 that the network's aren't there or that women are more likely to focus more on family? Or is there something else that's causing this underrepresentation? Is yc just happen to have no companies to pick from that are female founder focused or female founded?

It's a hard question, Jason. And I think there are probably a lot of factors. Maybe one of the questions that we can ask ourselves is, what can we do to change it? Right, yeah. And so what I what I am really impressed with with the XR community is an at least what I've seen over the past four to five years, is is a tremendous effort, not only by the females in the community, but also by the male allies in the community to actually encourage and promote diversity, both gender and and beyond, in our space. And I, it would be actually fascinating to I think there were statistics from a few years ago, but it'd be really fascinating to rerun the numbers on whether or not that's making a difference in, in startups in our space. My gut reaction is that it is because our pipeline, our deal pipeline, maybe we didn't get a lot of companies through Y Combinator that fit the union of VR, AR and AI and female founders. But we get pitched all the time, like many companies per week will reach out to us. So there's no shortage, at least in the XR space, not to say no shortage, there is a decent amount of pipeline of female and gender diverse companies in the XR space. And I'd like to think that we're continuing to promote that by just being a stronger community and being more aware of it,

one of the things that I've noticed is that when you look for it, you can find it, if you don't look for it, you're much less likely to find it, if the community is willing to recognize that there are female founders and make some efforts to be open at a minimum to be open. If not make an actual active effort to look, then I think we'll be pleasantly surprised by the amount of diversity not just gender diversity, but more broadly, diversity, ethnicity and other sorts of identity diversity. And it's, it might be a factor of just where we are in this at this stage in this corner of tech land. Right? Because we're at a stage where it is more collegial. There isn't as much money directly at play yet. Yeah, right. We're not we're not talking hundreds of billions of units and dollars being sold every quarter a year. And that's the mega corpse don't have a stranglehold on the market. And maybe that has a factor. And so we can be more collegial and those that have more of an open perspective are able to exert this, this intention and seize these opportunities. And maybe it'll be enough that the due process, maybe there'll be enough momentum created here that we because there are more female founders represented that will seem more created, right. There's nothing like looking up and seeing somebody that you want to be and then using that as a motivation to do it yourself. And the more you see that, the more likely you are to pursue that.

Yeah, I should be clear that you have a long way to go. Right? Definitely, if we did the research on on the funding of xR companies, looking at female founders versus male founders, it would be a sad ratio. But at least I'm seeing that the groups that are encouraging diversity and the female community groups are continuing to encourage to continue to participate. So so I have I have hope, but but there's still a lot, a lot of work to be done to get it more more equitable.

Yeah. On that note, you've been raising money as for the fund itself, and so VCs go and you have your own set of investors that you pull together that money and then you turn around in and select the most startups that meet your thesis and have the best chance of success. What's for you, as you've kind of gone about this process of building up w xR fund? What's been most surprising about raising the fund or about investing in the companies you've invested in so far?

There are a couple different things. I think one was interesting the amount of men that said they were going to invest in the fund because or they were interested at least in been investing in the fund because they have daughters. The amount of times that I heard that I found really surprising that there was this definite pull to wanting to make gender equality a thing because they have daughters. That was a big surprise. So the other thing that was more surprising is that it was it's been really challenging to find women to participate as investors. We would love to see the chain of female LP to female venture partner to female founder that would be really fun. At the moment. I think we're at 95% male investors. But the good news is we are looking at some new models of investing, that's going to enable more females to participate as investors. So I'm really excited to open that up to women that maybe hadn't thought about investing before.

Wow, it's really surprising that 95% of the money is coming from men. This is the 5% reflective of, of what do you think is just that we just there hasn't been this pipeline of successful women that's been able to create the level of wealth that's necessary to invest to become an LP of a VC Fund, which, you know, it's, it's a pretty high bar, ultimately, what's what do you think's going on there?

Yeah, I think that's part of it. Jason. And I think also part of it is just a lack of experience, and maybe a little bit of a lack of, of willing to take a risk, and also perhaps a little bit less dialogue, right, when we get together as women, are we talking about investing? I think the answer is, you know, not as much as as I as I would like it to be right. So just trying to encourage the education and understanding of the risk. But yeah, but also connect with those that are financially able to be in that space.

Yeah. The flip side of this, when you engage with entrepreneurs, you know, you mentioned you're seeing lots of companies every week, have an opportunity that meet your profile. But not clearly not all of them are getting an investment, relatively small percentage of them earn the opportunity to receive investment from the BSR. Where is it that these entrepreneurs are going wrong? Where do they misstep, either in the pitch or as they're in their style of approaching you? What advice do you have for the entrepreneurs out there?

Yeah, so first of all, when I get pitched by all male companies, it's like you read our thesis. So that would be the most annoying one. And then sometimes we'll get the pitch of, I know, we're all male, but we're going to hire a female, and I hear you, but then do it, and then come back to me, this is my response, we do get a lot of requests for Can you help us find someone, which we would be happy to if if it was if it was easy, but if we could think of somebody off the top of our head, but yeah, I mean, our goal is to invest in companies. The other thing in general, that's not gender related is just we really like it when the founder is an expert in the problem space. So the example that I gave with Carrie really knowing, you know, going through the experience with her mom with Alzheimer's, Mei ha saying of obsess was at Vogue for a long time. And so she really understands fashion and, and therefore virtual retail aamra, from all 3d, sold her first company to Bed, Bath and Beyond. And so she really understands the product, housewares space, you know, and so on. So we really appreciate the founders that know the problem that they're trying to solve. They're not just playing with new technology. How do you amazing, if

not so much, you want to be an expert in that particular problem space? That makes sense? Yeah. So kind of going beyond this, this notion that you have to understand that these this really isn't it has to be an honest, honest effort by the team to have a female in the group. And this notion that of being an expert in the problem you're trying to solve? is there other advice or other missteps? That that founders that you observe founders making, in the pitch, or in the way that they're thinking about their company?

And you know, beyond that, I

think it's just it's, it's a variety of different things, depending on the company itself. I mean, in general, and I would say this, not only for VR pitches, but also just pitches in general, the concept of really being concise about what it is you're doing and how you're doing it and where you're, where you're going. In essence, from our perspective, we're kind of looking for three things. What is the problem that you're solving? Is there a market for it is now the time and are you to the team to build it? And so I'm looking for that story within the slide deck that you're sending me?

Yeah. One of the ways that you are facilitating conversations, helping the broader market and even educating yourself on what's out there is that you host now a weekly show event on clubhouse has been all the rage as a as a recent what's the what's sort of focus and audience have you been cultivating there?

Yeah, it's actually really changed since we started doing it in August. My clubhouse itself has changed. Alright, we went from having rooms of, you know, I think the smallest was maybe 19 people to, you know, hundreds of people in the room and now there's over 20,000 that are following the club itself, which is called extending reality, by the way, so if anyone is interested, please and unclip us, please join but yeah, we started it with an open conversation of it being the the weekly fight pm pacific on Wednesdays, right? That's been consistent since since August. Just what what's happening in general, and it was, it was pretty loose, it was pretty loose. If anyone had a topic, they would come up and broach it. And some of the more fun ones were when someone had a problem like, hey, I've got this, this particular company I want to build, or this particular project I want to build, but I don't know how to do this and that, and then you would see people come up and answer different parts of it and connect to them with you know, maybe fundraising, it was actually really fun. We've focused it a little bit more to say, what has inspired you about virtual or augmented reality this week? Or what is the question you have for the room. So it tends to be a little bit more focused there. And then beyond the Wednesday, the weekly Wednesday, we can our room, then we have random other topics. There was one on chatbots, there was one on robots, there was one, we did a pitch day for startups. And there was a stand with Asians last week, and how you know, doing some brainstorming on how we can support the Asian community. So really trying to support the community in a lot of different ways by giving him that space and that access to the, to the 20,000 followers and to take xR to the next level. Yeah, particularly in terms of diversity. But

sure. You tempted a pitch competition you said we did in this venue as well. Yeah, How'd that go? It was

really fun. We invited some other female investors to join. And we did seven or eight companies. And it was really based on whoever got to the room and raise their hand. So there was no pre calling of the of the companies. And actually, we are still in conversations with one of the companies from that day. So which was just about a month ago. But yeah, it was really fun.

That's cool. hadn't mentioned these, you've found one in this this recent in the recent clubhouse pitch event that you put together. So a couple of companies at least fit the basic thesis at yc Demo Day. And he noted also that, across the five or so investments you've made so far, it's a pretty broad set education and entertainment and enterprise. And are there specific themes or problem areas or trends that you're interested in investing in? over the next year or so? What are you looking for right now? Is there anything specific you're looking for?

And as we talked about a little bit earlier, I'm still very interested in education, but really hesitant still, just to make sure that the educational space is ready to pick up on this technology. But I think there's a there's a very exciting, disruptive moment coming up for education and immersive technology. I'm also being that I'm from a platform background, right, aka my was this caching platform for the internet? I'm anything that will help the overall space scale, particularly content creation platforms, I think they're and tools I think, I think they're really interesting. I think remote work is going to continue and virtual conferences is going to continue to be interesting. And then, you know, as an angel, I'm always looking at in the music space, and what's going to what's going to impact the music space

now. Great. Maybe you can take this from both sides. We talked a little bit about how this past year just being forced to be remote has been such an amazing tailwind for the industry. And right, it's accelerated change across healthcare, across education and elsewhere. But as you look around, what do you see as the headwinds or the or the risks that may be impeding the process across AR VR or, or AI? Yeah, so

I'm going to go back to Akamai again, and talk a little bit about that. When I started working with them in 2000, we were building a streaming network so that we could support live and video streaming. No one really used it. I mean, not no one, but it was it was not vastly used until at least 2006. And it didn't really, really take off until 2009. That's like a decade. Right? So I think the risks of this area is that this technology that we're building is hard. I don't think it's impossible. No one thinks it's impossible. I mean, you Jason, even what you're developing is you understand hard and hard takes time. So the risk is just that, it's going to take a lot of time to get where we all want to be to the point where something can be as ubiquitous as a as an easy to use as an iPhone, and as comfortable. Right. And so what I've said in in a lot of different talks that I've been in is for mass consumption, I really think there are three things that need to come together and that is comfort, cost and content. And when those three things come together, then everyone will understand and use and accept this new wave of computing. But but we're not there yet. Yes, VR headsets are now only 299, which is less than a phone great that we got costs there. But they they still aren't comfortable. And they certainly are easy to use. And the level of content still needs to grow. And so I just think, I think the headwinds and the risks are there. All of that being said, I do think we're, we're closer to that point than we've ever been. Right? If we look at the ecosystem of 5g, processing speeds, cameras on phones, or depth, cameras, on phones, headsets, gaming platforms, all of those are coming together in this ecosystem, and then being kicked, as you know, catalyzed with the pandemic for this need for virtual that now I think we'll really start seeing an uptick in spatial technology than we already are. Right, like, so. rec room was announced recently that they're $1.25 billion valuation. Microsoft with HoloLens just got a contract with the government. I think it was the army for $22 billion, right. And all tech companies, by the way, have been working on the VR and AR xR space at some level for many years now. So we all believe it's gonna happen. I just think the the risk and is that it just isn't going to happen as fast. And so that that can be dangerous for startups that don't have the runway to last?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's wrap up here with a few and lightning round questions. If you could sit down and have coffee with your 25 year old self, what advice would you share with 25 year old Amy,

that every job that you take isn't, doesn't have to be exactly perfect. You can have many jobs and many careers over your lifetime. And it might not be the perfect jump from one job to another. But by being open, you can always learn something from wherever you're at. And also that anxiety about achieving is if you can take the anxiety and refocus it on doing the 25 year old me was always in a rush to prove myself. And I think that if I could have taken the anxiety from away from that, that pressure, and just focused on acting and doing that, that that would have fundamentally served me better.

transition that energy from anxiety to action. That's profound. That's challenging.

Yeah. Yeah. If somebody can do it younger than 45, then that's,

that'd be great.

Awesome. Any closing thoughts you'd like to share?

Yeah, I mean, we were talking about this earlier. But I agree with you that humans, humans want to connect, right, whether that's in real life, or virtually. And we will, as the pandemic ends, connect more in real life, there's, there's no question about it. But now we know how to virtually connect in an easier way from the comfort of our home, and giving us Global Access, particularly for those where travel is challenging. And so I definitely think that there is catalyst that the pandemic started with virtual technologies, and VR and AR will just continue to grow. businesses as well are seeing that convenience of virtual interaction and new ways of engaging and learning and interacting with not only their customers, but also their employees. And that ultimately will lead to increases in sales and productivity. So I think we'll continue to see the growth there. And then, like I was mentioning with the ecosystem, the underlying technology is more ready to use than it's ever been. And so I just encourage anybody that's listening, if they're close to giving up or burning out, because they've been working on this for five or maybe even more years. Right, that that I really do think that there are a couple different things coming together right now. That makes now the time for this next wave of computing to hit a serious level of growth.

Yeah, we're looking at some exciting years ahead. roaring 20s. here we come. So we hope Yeah, right. Where can people go to learn more about you and the W xR fund?

Yeah, so the best places w x our fund comm our portfolio is there. And there's some web pages about the team. And that includes our venture partners of which you Jason are one. And also I'm on medium for a while I was doing a monthly posting on all of the immersive virtual and music news. I pause that for a while as we, as we're focusing on others of the fund, but I expect I'll pick that up in the summer again. So it's really fun to see all of the things that change just just within that tiny space of immersive and virtual music on a monthly basis. Really, really fun. And then of course on LinkedIn, so My partner mark, Martina well, cos and I are both on LinkedIn as well as the

fun. Great. Amy, thank you very much for this conversation.

Always a pleasure.

Before you go, I'm gonna tell you about the next episode. In it I speak with Sly Lee. Sly is the co founder and CEO of emerge. A cross reality presents company building a platform that aims to enable more meaningful, engaging and diverse interactions in xR, it brings us closer to the people we care about, through touch and emotion. Sly is an entrepreneur and scientist who's passionate about creating positive global impact and was named to Forbes 30 under 30. I think you'll really enjoyed the conversation. Please follow or subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss this or other great episodes. Until next time....