my undergraduate degree, I began in the 1980s. And I decided to major in interior design because I thought, oh, that's something I could get a job doing. And I actually think I would have loved to be an interior designer. But anyway, different story. But one of the classes that was in our curriculum was introduction to fibres class, and with this artist named this teacher artist named Naomi Shadle. And I absolutely loved this class, and it was all these different fiber techniques. So fibers includes everything from quilting, to papermaking, to bookmaking, to basketry, to stitching to Batik, and dyeing and tie dyeing and crochet and knitting. I mean, it's just this vast sort of repository of these domestic origin art forms. So this class at University of Iowa that I was in, had a few of those just like kind of tapping into the different kinds of domestic arts that inform interiors. But I just that class did it and all of a sudden, I just wanted to be a fiber artist. So they didn't have fiber arts at U of I, University of Iowa. And so I transferred to Colorado State University and got my undergraduate degree from Tom Lundberg in the fire department. Terrific, terrific fiber artist. And then I worked for about five years in actually my undergraduate degree I focused on the printing and dyeing of fabrics. So I was doing yardage and designing yardage. And I got to after my degree, I moved to Los Angeles and worked as a textile designer for a number of years. And then when I went back to school, I decided to go back to school to become a teacher. And when I I started working more dimensionally, and then ended up at U of I, University of Illinois, in the sculpture department, which was great because sculpture, the sculpture department was they were really interested in just what do you make and what weren't worried about oh, is it craft art or they weren't, they were very much just about the land of idea. And that was related right at that point. So Oh, I didn't think oh, this is cool. This is an old weaving art form. And you know, I didn't think of it that way, it just kind of gradually worked for that. And I should say that while I was in Los Angeles, I took some classes with Carol Shaw Sutton at Cal State Long Beach. And I did some graduate work there as well. And she's the one that taught me how to do the technique that I do, which is called twining. And once I learned that, I just, it just took off, I just decided that is absolutely what I want to do. And I thought, Well, I'm just going to deep dive into this technique. And I bought this 50 pounds school is like an industrial size amount of the one of the materials that I use to weave with and it was just like, I, it was such a huge commitment, I can't believe looking back on it, it's really hard to believe I did that. But yeah, anyway, and it took me about 10 years to get through that material. But But yeah, I just fell in love with this slow, methodical, woven technique. And it's great because unlike some techniques, it has a lot of structural integrity. So it can hold itself up, it can be a form that's empty. And it doesn't have to have something in it to provide structure it provides, you know, like many baskets you have around the house, they hold their self up, just based on their structure. And, and an interesting side note is that every basket that you have, or you've ever seen, every single basket is made by human hands, it is not, it's one of the few things that has not become a mechanized process. So even the 99 cent ones, you get it, you know, Walmart to the fancier ones at your one. There's a lot of things that draw me to it. These are