You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 277, what if writing a book could triple your rates and position you as the top expert in your field? Today's case study explores how a self published book became the ultimate lead generator for Abi Prendergast, service based business. Abby is the creator of day one evergreen, the Evergreen funnel system that has helped clients generate up to $1.8 million annually without the stress of live launches. But it wasn't her system that put her on the map. It was the book she wrote about it in 2023 Abby turned her proven framework into a self published book designed to position her as the go to expert in Evergreen strategies with a small email list of just 800 subscribers, her book gained traction almost entirely through Amazon and word of mouth recommendations. The result, dream client started reaching out to hire her and ask her to speak in rooms she never imagined being in Abby's evergreen funnel service tripled in price to $50,000 while staying in demand, and she began generating one to $2,000 per month in passive core sales, all without ads or a large audience. If you play in the high ticket space, discover how a self published book can amplify your authority and sell out your services.
Welcome to Cubicle, to CEO, the podcast where we ask successful founders and CEOs the business questions you can't google. I'm your host. Ellen Yin, every Monday, go behind the business in a case study style interview with a leading entrepreneur who shares one specific growth strategy they've tested in their own business, exactly how they implemented it and what the results and revenue worth you'll also hear financially transparent insights from my own journey bootstrapping our media company from a $300 freelance project into millions in revenue.
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today, we have joining us. Abi Prendergast. She created an amazing framework called day number one, where, essentially your evergreen funnel gets better every single month, and you can literally go evergreen on day one. But the case study we're actually going to be focused on today is all around how Abby self published a book and created a funnel that even if you're not a New York Times bestseller, even if you don't try to reach for the best seller list on Amazon, we're going to look at how that book funnel is still driving $30,000 clients to her, and we'll get into the details in just a moment. But first, Abi, welcome to the show.
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here
Abi, before we get further into your case study, let's talk about your Cubicle to CEO story. This is our opening question for all our guests, because I'm always so curious what that catalyst is that led you to entrepreneurship. So for you, what was that big thing that you know encouraged you to jump into full time entrepreneurship?
Um, it's a great question. I mean, I, I've always been an entrepreneur. I never, kind of had had the cubicle job. I basically wanted to get paid to write, and as soon as I realized I could do that, it started very small, simple jobs, just that I found on Upwork. And then from there, yeah, I just was curious how I could make more money, do a better job for my clients, and just kind of continue to build from there, really amazing.
Well, I think a lot of us start our businesses through that, right through skill we're already skilled at or well known for, and then we kind of just test it and see if we can monetize it outside of a regular day job. So sounds like we kind of had similar paths there, although I didn't use Upwork, but I feel like it's such a great way to kind of introduce yourself to this new world and test this playground, your case study. I'm particularly fascinated by it because there's a lot of backstory to and that's kind of where I want to start with our listeners, right? So you when you first kind of enter this space, you were positioning yourself as a conversion copywriter, and you were doing these VIP days for about $1,500 a day, and working with, you know, industry leaders, people like Amy Porterfield, and helping people write profitable funnels, right?
But you quickly kind of ran into this, this hurdle of burnout, where you were getting really emotionally invested in people's launches and, you know, feeling bad if they didn't hit their launch goals. So that kind of pivoted you into creating a signature framework, the day number one, Evergreen, that you then increased your client prices to $15,000 but at that point of burnout, why was this the direction that you kind of thought to go in, versus just, let's say, working with different clients or increasing your prices, but continuing to do that conversion copywriting work?
Great question. Yeah. Yeah, so I love working with course creators. I just think, course, creators are so cool, right? It's kind of like they're people that have this passion, or they've achieved something, and now they're like, Do you know what? I'm going to help other people do that, because I'm loving doing it. I want other people to get that too. And the fact you know that it's all digital, it's so different to set selling a physical product and that kind of scalability of it. So I didn't want to shift away from, course, creators. I was like, these are my people. This is where I'm really excited, and I love as well, the opportunity to write really personality packed copy, because usually course creators, it's a personal brand, so they really want themselves in it, and that's so much more fun to write.
Like I love spending time with a course creator, getting to know them, and then pouring that into the coffee. So what happened was, I did a course launch for a client. Adored her, and really we both just really had high expectations to launch. We like, this is going to be like a high six figure launch. So first, course, and we did, pulled out all the stops, like it wasn't just like a webinar. It was like four webinars. There were show up emails, like it was a full on bells and whistles live launch. And then on the day of the first webinar, she had a 3% show up, right? And this was, this was after running ads again, like all of these show up emails.
So I was like, what has gone wrong here? Like, you know, the copy is awesome. The designer we bought on was fantastic. And, you know, I kind of the only conclusion I could come to was there must have been a link that didn't work, right? I mean, for such a low, sharp rate. But anyway, that so I was so gutted for her, because I know she really needed it to work. And I think experiencing that problem in such an emotional way really pushed me to think, Okay, I have, I have to come up with a solution for this. There's no I want to keep working with, course, creators, but I don't want to put this pressure on myself or anybody else ever again. I don't want someone to go through pouring all this time, money, effort, hopes, dreams, the works, into a big launch when there is always a chance and a mine at work, and sometimes it's something completely out of your control.
So that really got me thinking, Okay, what? How can I solve this? Which is why I started exploring evergreen, and eventually came up with this idea, you don't need to live launch a bunch of times. Why? Why not just go evergreen from day one and then continuously optimize it from there
right no, your logic totally, totally makes sense there. The key problem in making that shift though from live, live launching and supporting clients with live launching to the Evergreen model was that you felt you needed to remove, well, you wanted to, I should say, not needed to. You wanted to remove the pressure of live launches, both from yourself and your clients, but you wanted to do it without taking conversions, which is typically the like you call it the traditional evergreen experience, and why a lot of people still stay in the live launch cycle.
So I would love to know when you were developing this day one evergreen framework, how did you identify what the conversion killer is in traditional evergreen funnels, like, what is the thing that typically prevents people from experiencing the same level of conversion that they expect on a live launch? And once you discovered what that culprit was, what was the solution that you added into your framework to prevent people from having to experience that
that
at this point, I had worked on a few different evergreen funnels before. Some have been successful. Some hadn't. And I think what I noticed is, when you live launch, there's a lot of excitement in a live launch, right when you when you're doing this live webinar, and everyone in the comments is like, oh my god, I just bought it. Can't wait. And that that does do something for the conversions. And when you're when you've got an evergreen funnel, you don't have that, so you can't get away with some maybe slightly generic messaging that you might have been able to get away with when you live launch, just because all with the excitement of being live.
So really that was one of the number one things, is that the messaging just wasn't, wasn't there in some of these funnels that were so successful live. So I thought to myself, Okay, how can we really dial in the messaging? So the person reading the sales page or going through the webinar that this course was created for, it's really easy for them to see that and say yes. So the way I got around that was, Well, initially always doing a lot of customer research before writing an evergreen funnel, so interviewing all of the best customers and sending out surveys, Voice of custom whining and Facebook groups, all that good stuff, but then actually building customer feedback into the funnel itself.
Because the thing with an evergreen funnel is, if you, if you keep it the same, if it doesn't change, your your audience is changing. The world's changing. AI is releasing new updates, like all this stuff's going on, and if you're not addressing that in your funnel, it's going to just feel stellar and stellar, which is going to affect conversion rates. So actually building customer feedback opportunities into the funnel via thank you page, surveys, strategic testing, AB testing, all that good stuff to find out what's resonating each month. So that can mean what's resonating in summer won't resonate in winter.
But because you're constantly testing, you can make these small, small changes that will keep conversions where they are so really that, like dialing in the voice of customer and the messaging, so that the funnel can actually improve each month rather than declining, and then also just making sure that the key pieces that Make a live launch successful are built into the Evergreen funnel. So having a limited time offer, having that urgency, but doing it in a way that feels authentic and doesn't feel like you're just pretending to be live when, when really it's on demand.
Okay, I love this element of building in real time customer feedback within an evergreen funnel at multiple touch points, like you said, because, to your point, you're right, like during a live launch. I think what makes it so effective on on the host side, if you will, is that we can kind of read, read the room, right? We can keep our pulse on the energy and on the feedback of live attendees or people who are coming into our inbox during a live launch and responding to emails. And so I do see how, on the Evergreen side, you don't have as many opportunities to interact with people in that way if they're not, if you're not proactively pulling out that feedback, and they're just consuming or going through the funnel on their own, and then just kind of dropping out if they're not interested.
So I want to get into, you know, your own book funnel, and how you kind of apply some of these principles to how you're acquiring clients, but I just feel like our listeners would be so mad if I didn't ask you what some of these, what some of these customer touch points are. And specifically, I think when you submitted your pre interview research, I was looking through it, and you have actually 10 customer feedback points correct to optimize within an evergreen funnel? Would you be able to just high level walk us through what those 10 points are, and maybe even pull out a specific example of like, here's a customer feedback point I received, and then here's the corresponding tweak I made.
Okay, sure. So one of the initial touch points is a thank you page survey. So when people sign up for your webinar on the thank you page having one question, the question I love to ask, it was coined by Jonah weeb, founder of Copy Hackers, and the question is, what was going on in your life that brought you here today? What I love about that question is you just get so much good stuff. People tell you the desired outcomes they want. They'll tell you the problems they're having, and it will tell you if the people coming into your webinar are a good fit, which is great, because that's that's one of the problems that I've struggled to solve in the past is okay, we've got lots of people coming into the webinar.
They're not converting. Is it the bottom of funnel? Sales messaging, are they the wrong leads? That question will help you determine if they're the right leads. So for example, if you've got a course for advanced business owners, and people are telling you on their thank you page survey that they signed up because they really want to start a business or they really want passive income, then you can say, okay, my messaging is tailored to the new entrepreneur. So there's I'm attracting the wrong leads, and that can help you fix that problem. So having a thank you page on your webinar after they sign up for your webinar, and then having one when they sign up for your online course, the question I have at the moment is, what inspired you to take the leap and enroll in name of offer today.
I like that question because it will tell you what sales messaging is working for them. It will tell you what actually won them over, and that can be really useful. For example, on my on my course, I found out that a lot of people were signing up for the templates, but I wasn't really highlighting it on my sales page. So when I found this out, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna make this a much bigger deal. And since then, my conversion rate has increased because people can now, people who are skimming the sales page can see the template. So that's, that's two of the touch points. Did you want me to continue through all 10?
Oh my gosh. These are like, so brilliant. I don't have a webinar funnel anymore, but I wish I did just so I could test these out, because I love how conversational the questions are, especially that that first one you said, like, what brought you here today? Like that. I mean, that could be so it's so open ended, right? And I'm sure you get really great language that you can pull into your copy there. But yes, if you're up for it, I would love to hear all 10.
Even if it's just high level, I think it just helps people to think through even like points in a funnel where you can ask for feedback, because sometimes I think people only think about asking feedback, like maybe upon opt in and then upon purchase. But I'm sure there's so many other little windows, I would say, in a funnel that people can ask for feedback that they're not currently asking for feedback. Okay, sure. Okay, so we've done thank you page surveys. The next point you can ask for feedback would be about halfway through your your email sequence, when you've got your Q and A.
I mean, to be honest, you can also, you can also have a Q and A open on your evergreen webinar. I would just say, don't pretend that it's a live chat. But you can still be collecting those questions, and they can be helpful. But when you do your you know the obligatory FAQ question as just before you get ready to close cut, I've started titling those emails all day, Q and A, and I have the FAQ, but I also say, hey, like, I'm around today to answer questions. At the moment, I'm doing that, but I have some clients where they're the founder is removed from the business, stepped out of it, and they have other people in there answering those questions and just saying, like, if you have any questions, like, just, just hit me up. We're happy to help.
Getting those questions is going to help you see what you're not making care on your page. So if you're getting a lot of the same question like, Oh, I'm really worried I won't have enough time to do this, how long is it going to take? Then that question doesn't belong buried in your FAQ. That should be something that's higher up on your page that you're very clearly addressing. So the the FAQ email and then post launch. So three days after the doors close or the offer ends, saying, hey, like, what kept you from buying this time around, keep it to a what question.
So this is just a little nitty gritty psychology tip, why? Questions can put people on the spot, and they automatically go into defensive sometimes, like, why didn't you buy? Whereas if you just say, like, what kept you from buying, they're more likely to actually share an objection. What help them back and again? If you're getting a lot of the same one, you can then build this into the page. So an example of that, I had a client, and after we sent that out, we got, I think, well, a big chunk said money, as they always do, so we modified that messaging. But then I think 30% said they weren't sure if they would learn enough. So I then built in a kind of post launch sequence that gave people the opportunity to take a section of the course and see what's inside.
And from that, this was actually for a launch, but we saw an extra $30,000 from just building in that address and that objection. So can be, it's really powerful stuff, so and then in your Facebook group. So this is an automated, if you have a student community, really encouraging people to share their wins and their challenges. Because if, when people are stressed, they're gonna, they're gonna share this stuff with with the amazing voice of customer emotional stuff. When people are running into a problem, they're like, oh my god, I'm just so frustrated, like, I've just been crying on the floor at 3am like, that's all that's really helpful. And for you to know, to know what those problems are, and then you can build that into your messaging and also help that help your your stressed out student.
And then we've got testing, so as well as asking that, right, there are other ways you can test. So, for example, A, B, testing your subject lines rather than being doing it to just increase your open rate by 5%. Not that helpful. But if you actually use it to test which messaging connects with your audience, you could you could have a theory. You could think, Okay, I think my audience is more motivated by wanting to get more clients versus wanting to get more money. So you could then test in the subject line, open this if you want more clients, open this if you want more money, something like that. And then based on which gets higher open rates, that will give you a clue what resonates I'm saying. I'm trying to think what I'm missing.
So I've kind of gone out of order do the same thing with your opt in pages, A, B, testing to see rather again, rather than just AB testing a headline being much more strategic with it, but I'm going to test messaging around this pain point versus this pain point and see what's connecting more because then once you know what's connecting, you can build that in elsewhere, and then multivariate ad testing as well. So testing more strategically. So rather than just being like, oh, I want to bring my cost per lead down, which, of course, you do. That's great, but also using it to see again what's really connected with your audience, you can make sure that connection exists all through your funnel. I think that was all 10. I think that was all 10. I feel like I've talked to Blue stream here, but
no. So massively impressive that you were able to just spout that off the top of your head, but shows you how close you are to this you know, to this framework that you've developed, and how much utilize it, not only with your clients, but in your own business. So I feel like that was just a mini masterclass. Thank you so much for sharing all of those amazing optimization opportunities Abi and I hope that our listeners who have webinar style funnels or evergreen funnels, can really take some of these suggestions to heart, because, like you said, it really is about creating this almost like interactive experience, right with your people who are going through the Evergreen funnel, so that it doesn't just feel like this one sided kind of sales process.
So I have no doubt that if people implement even one of the 10 optimization opportunities, that they're going to see improvements in their evergreen conversion rates and and hopefully build a more profitable funnel like you have with your day number one evergreen, this case study that I want to zoom in on now that we kind of have the context of how you develop this framework and kind of how it works. It kind of, for you, seems to have stemmed from this thesis that your book doesn't need to be a New York Times bestseller to have a massive impact on your business. And in your case, again, we're going to recap what I shared at the beginning. In your case, you're self publishing a book on Amazon, right, and it's bringing you inbound client leads for a $30,000 done for you evergreen funnel build service.
And on top of bringing you $30,000 clients, you're also selling one to $2,000 a month from your courses on automation, so meaning without any active organic marketing and without running any paid ads. So this is super, super fascinating to me, because the first question I actually want to ask you is around the book choice itself. Why use a book as the content medium to express or to take your tip instead of saying, why? What made you choose a book as the content medium to express your thought leadership versus, let's say, getting on more podcasts, maybe hosting your own podcast show, or some other form of thought leadership content. Why a book specifically?
a great question. So I am doing podcasts. I have my course. I there is something about a book that just says I am the thought leader in this field. I mean, my, my friend, actually, so she, she's, she's got her a publishing company named Jessica Noel. But she was in a mastermind. She was telling people were saying, I've got this problem with my evergreen funnel. And she said, Oh, Abi Prendergast, write the book on that. And everyone, she said everyone in the room was just like, just so impressed. They were like, No way Abi did that. That's amazing. And, you know, these are people that I always kind of thought maybe were a little bit above me, like I saw, and they were just so amazed, and they started reaching out to me.
So I unfortunately wasn't there to witness that reaction, but that really that story affirmed to me that books are still very impressive. People are impressed when you write them. As for I suppose, why I chose a book I'd go to written books for clients before, including my mentor. So she was very much like, okay, you've done this for me. Go and do it for yourself. Okay, I suppose, I suppose I should. I love writing. And, yeah, it just, it just seemed like this was the way to claim the space. And I felt, I felt very passionate about claiming that space, because I think a lot of people, when they talk about evergreen finals, it's all like, oh, just set it up, and you're going to make all this passive income, and all your problems are going to solve, and all your dreams are going to come true. And I saw that that was creating a lot of hurt in the course creator community, like people feeling really just disappointed and that they've tried it and they're expecting this big win.
So I wanted to step forward and be like, Okay, I'm going to talk about this in a different way, or I'm going to straight up say, you are not going to make money instantly, but you can set these up, and you can continually optimize, and you will eventually figure out what connects with your audience. So I just felt in my heart the book was, was, was going to be a part of that, of saying I, I am, I am the thought leader in this space. Um, I am evergreen funnel girl. So, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question.
No, it does. It does. I think books, I totally agree, they do create an instant lift and credibility and authority for whatever reason, maybe because it is more I don't know. This is just my, my take on it. I could be totally off on why this is the case, but I think because books obviously are more traditional and well known, I guess, content form, whereas some mediums like podcasting and other digital content channels are newer. I think too, because books take, they inherently like take more time, right? It's a much more drawn out process. It requires much more dedication to complete a book than to say, throw a post up on Instagram or or, you know, a tick tock. So I think there's, there's some built in respect too, for people who have the the tenacity right to finish such a feat.
And so I totally agree with you there, and then you, I mean, I think it's really cool too, that you actually turned your signature framework, or the thing that you want to be known for the day whenever green into a book, even though it already existed, like you said in other mediums. I think that's encouraging to our listeners, too, because sometimes I think people think if I write a book, it needs to be like very different or on a totally different topic than what I already talked about day to day in my business, or what I what I sell right as a program to people or teach people.
So when you went to go launch this book, you actually put it up for pre order first. And I think this will also be really encouraging to our listeners. You actually promoted it to your list of 800 people. So this wasn't you going into this giant book launch with 1000s of affiliates, and you know, 10s of 1000s of people on your list. You promoted it to 800 people, and the pre order, I believe you said, was actually just to force you to actually finish it on time. Is that correct? Is it another motivation?
No, that was literally, I was like, this is the level of accountability that I need. Is having it up for pre order, because otherwise it's just going to be another book that sits in in my life, in a folder somewhere not finished.
So fair, I would love to know, like, between the time that you made it available for pre order to when you actually needed to get the book into their hands. Like, how much time did you leave yourself for that process?
Okay So I gave myself five months to write it. Okay? I done, I done books faster for clients. I I think I was on maybe Chapter Three by like April the 30th. So I then, and this was while doing client work, while buying a new house. So it was a lot going on, but I, yeah, I just forced myself, and, you know, I got it done, and I wouldn't have got it done without that pre order. So even though it was very stressful couple of weeks, I'm so glad, because I'm really proud of the book that I created.
You know, I relate so much to that as an eternal procrastinator since, like, elementary school, I always need the deadline, like breathing down my neck to to really get me into mode. But I do feel like I actually am very creative under pressure, so I'm glad you can relate to that. You actually ended up selling 40 on pre order. So that's amazing, especially from a list of 800 was there any incentive for people to specifically pre order versus waiting to buy the book once it was actually published.
Yes, I did. I had some bonuses. I think there was, like a hack of Facebook ad templates, a final map with a video walkthrough. So I had that when I pre ordered through my website. And then for people who pre ordered on Amazon, they could email me for the bonuses, so then I could get the email address. But I think a few people, yeah, just pre ordered and didn't take take me up on the bonuses.
They probably just want to support you because they love
Yeah
I totally get it. And those people are, like, the most special in a community. And I know, obviously the purpose of you writing this book was not to use the book itself as a way to bring revenue into your business, but I'm still just interested in the economics of this book and how it fits into your business. So what's the price of the book? And then, if you know, off the top of your head, because you self published, what do the cogs look like? Like, you know, how much total money does it cost to print a book, ship a book? So, I guess, like, what? What's your profit margin there with, with your book?
book?
Yeah, sure. So the books 9.99, at the moment, it is just an e book on Amazon. It's, oh, perfect, yeah. I can, I can. I will, at some point turn it into print and do another launch. So with with print, Amazon takes 70% ebook, I think it's 30. But it was never about the profit from from the book itself. It was about the snowball effect of the authority building in terms of other costs, I paid $1,000 to a friend to edit it and help with the formatting, but otherwise, I Oh, and I'm friends with the design, and we did, like, a little bartering, I think, and he didn't cover for me. So, yeah, the cost was pretty low.
That's great. Bartering is so underrated. It's like the oldest form of commerce, and we should do it more. I think there's a lot of value in that. So that's good to know. I didn't realize it was an E or exists only as an e book currently. But even better, because I feel like that makes it even more approachable or realistic for people who may be listening to this episode and thinking through your funnel and going, Oh, wait, I could, I could maybe do something like that. So you soft launched the book after, you know, getting those initial pre orders in through socials, and then, really just through word of mouth, through your appearances on other people's podcasts, and then people finding you on Amazon through the search engine. You actually sold 100copies over the summer. And just to clarify, was this 100 additional to the 40 pre order, or 100 Total, including the pre order over the summer,
I think it might have been 100 additional. I know that I was getting there was a point when I was getting a sale or two every day, so I haven't checked recently, but I think I must be getting to around 200 now.
So exciting. And the result of that, like you said, it's not about the front end sales, right, but the result of people actually buying and reading your book is that, previously, the funnel building service that you were offering clients was $15,000. You were then able to double your price to $30,000 I wanted to pause there real quick, actually, before I ask the next question. Was this like an immediate jump, like, But literally, like, the day you publish your book, you're like, my prices are now $30,000 and it was directly tied to the act of publishing the book, or was there some other like in between that resulted in that leap of doubling your price?
Yeah, good question. So my mentor is always saying, raise your prices, raise your prices. And I think I've always had a bit of, like, you know, the old imposter syndrome, a bit of a confidence thing. And I'm thinking, Oh, okay, I can charge more, but can I really, you know, is it really worth this, right? When, as soon as I published the book, I did just have like, this boost in confidence, or not, not necessarily, since I published as soon as the first testimonials came in, and people were like, This is awesome. So I think it was fairly soon after, and I have actually since raised my prices, so I'm now charging 50k so I've always I've more than tripled my prices since releasing the book. And I think, yeah, just because I now feel so confident that I have a frame like my framework delivers and it and it's worth it. So yeah,
I mean, no, it makes sense, because I think I read in again, in some of the information you had submitted prior to our interview that you've had clients that have that you've built these funnels for, that have made over a million dollars. So you have those case studies to back up the results. It's not just like a willy nilly, like, Oh, I just want to charge this, so I'm going to charge this like, there's demand to meet that, that price point, right? So I love that. Okay, so you increase your prices to $30,000 you have inbound leads knocking down your door, and you're actually turning clients away. So again, I understand why.
Now, now now it's at like 50,000 and also there was a lot of established industry leaders who were, like you said, taking notice, like that mastermind example you gave, but I'm sure elsewhere too, and these leaders that you looked up to, or these aspirational platforms that people had, they were inviting you to come, come chat or be featured on their platform. So what's your biggest pinch me moment in terms of, like, an inbound lead that you've received, or maybe an invitation to speak or to guest on someone's platform that you've received thus far since launching your book? I don't know if I could pick just one.
There's like three that stand out. Yeah. Okay, so one was the editor in chief of entrepreneur reached out to me, and I just, like been wanting to, I just wanted that logo, you know,
know,
Is that Jason is that?
Yeah. So that was so he saw me and Pat Flynn's mastermind. But kind of the reason I was even giving a workshop in patterns mastermind, it kind of goes back to the book. So that was really cool. That was to be on his podcast. But obviously I was like, Can I, can I write an article for entrepreneur I did, and then he was like, Can you write another one? So that's kind of a new relationship the founder of deadline funnel. So I I'm obsessed with deadline funnel. I use it. I talk about it a lot, and I've been wanting to kind of get on a call with him for ages, but then he actually messaged me, and he said, I read your book. Loved it. Would you get on a call? So that was I was like, Oh my goodness. And then a podcast, the online, I'm gonna get the name wrong, the course creator show, the only online course show. I always get those two modeled, but
the jacks emailed me and he said, oh, a bunch of my clients have read your book. Would you like to spend my podcast? I was like, this, this is so cool, because I think I'd applied in the past and just not, not got a reply. So I think, yeah, those three moments I was I felt like I'd really taken a step up the authority, authority wise, and wasn't just pitching podcast hopefully, but actually people inviting me to the ones that I wanted to be on.
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Yes, there's no better feeling than that, recognition of someone saying, Oh, my peers are talking about you. So I knew I had to get into your world, especially some of those people that you mentioned. It's actually funny. You say deadline funnel, because right before our podcast interview today, Abby, I got an email from another previous podcast guest, shout out, Katie peacock. She was like, Oh, someone at deadline funnel wants to collaborate with you, and I wanted to introduce you guys. So I'm like, Oh, that's so funny.
funny.
What's funny is that Katie referred me to your podcast to say thank you to Deadline funnel, so now, yeah, there we go. You have a little trifecta of referral triangle.
I love it. No, that's so important too, to find people who are willing to share your names, right, or your name to to people who you don't know and in the rooms that you're not part of. So that's amazing. I celebrate you. I honor you, and those incredible accomplishments. Do you have, like a in your actual book? Do you have any sort of call to action in there for people to reach out to you to inquire about your services, or is that totally just like an organic response that you've received after people have read your book and just are prompted to want to hire you internally?
Yeah, sure. So I have, like, when I when I walk people through the final I have a QR code, you scan it to get walked through, and then that takes a learning page with a video walk through, and then assign up to my webinar. So I have that. And then at the end, I do, I just have a page that says, if you, yeah, if you want to work with me, here's, here's what to do. So I have, I do have a call to action. But the the book wasn't about, it's not, it's not designed to be kind of like this big, long form sales page. It's totally about the value, and then at the end, it's like, Hey, if you want me to just do this for you, here's what to do.
Awesome. So you're saying the video that they watch in the QR code that this can directly leads them to the option of, hey, if you want me to do this for you, where do the people go, or how are they sent? The people who are not ready, let's say, for the 30,000 $50,000 price tag to have you just do it for them, the ones who are buying, like the courses or the, you know, self paced resources from you, are they all being directed to that same QR code? And then those people who aren't ready yet, just are kind of finding kind of finding your other lower ticket resources. Or are there two separate kind of paths that you send people on depending just straight from the book, like, how does that? What do you call it? Separation happen?
Yeah, sure. So the QR code, I should have said so the webinar is to sell my online course, so most people go. Through that, and then there's just kind of, at the end of the book, it just says, If you want to hire me, but what I found is like, if people want to hire you, as long as they know that you're hireable, they'll find a way. So if they sign up for my webinar, and then they're seeing my emails in action, and they'll be like, Oh, can you, can you write these for me? So
right. Okay, great to know. And some tangible ways that you've leveraged this book to grow your business. Obviously, we've already talked about, you know, the inbound leads that you're receiving from the book, but there are some other strategies that you've employed, and so I kind of want to just quickly walk through some of these to share the actional takeaways, actionable takeaways, that you've learned with our listeners. So the first is actually more around how people are discovering your book outside of word of mouth, and that's through Amazon, right through people just searching and your book popping up as a related resource. So how are you optimizing for keywords on Amazon so that people can find your book?
Yeah, so that i Jessica Noel helped me do that, because that her whole thing is book launches. So she she gave me some keywords, but I just found that the Evergreen course base that there was a keyword opportunity there. So I don't know how many people are finding me that way. I know some are, because I did a interview recently with someone who bought my course, and they said that what she'd done because she didn't want to just invest in another in another. Course, she bought three, she searched Amazon and bought three books on evergreen core sales. Liked mine the best, so bought from me. And then I will post about it on LinkedIn.
Occasionally, I have a tab on my website about the book. I really do think word of mouth is the is the main one, though. I mean, just get it from those initial sales. Like a bunch of people said to me, I've recommended this to like, three people, or I've, like, told my client they need to buy this, which has been interesting, because I've had copywriters tell me that they've told the client to read my book, and it's like, oh, and you worried about me taking, you know, but it's just, yeah, I mean, I think that really has been the big one. So I think if you write, if you write a good book with some stickability to it that solves a real problem, you don't need to do these big, crazy launch, like book launch. I know, I know it's kind of the opposite to what marketers say, like you're not supposed to the whole builder and they will come. But that kind of has been my experience on this one occasion, right?
And I mean to to your credit, though, this is this book, right? Is is built on a framework that you tested in multiple other avenues before it ever became a book. So yes, you built the book and then they came, but you had already done a lot of the work on the front end. So I think you know that also speaks to the success of your book. And I totally agree, by the way, that the best books really don't need these elaborate marketing plans because they're so good that people just naturally want to talk about them. I feel this way about a book I read earlier this year that my my friend Caitlin Carlson recommended me, called the psychology of money, and I, like, devoured that interesting,
oh my gosh, it's so good. I mean, I'm talking about it here, right? And I, every time I talk to somebody, I'm like, Oh my gosh, you have to go buy this book. So I totally, I totally see how that, how that is working in your favor there. The second thing that you've really done to leverage this book is you wrote in your in your pre interview information, this statement, so I'm going to read it. You said, if you want to charge more, specialize, be the expert in one thing and create a framework around it and a book so you can position yourself as the go to for that one thing.
Now, in the same breath, I agree, by the way, I think specialization is the way to, you know, really increase your pricing. But in the same breath, you also said quote, If you want to complete projects faster so you can be more profitable, create a standardized offer that you do for one type of audience. So I just kind of want to break this down a little bit more for listeners, like we mentioned, way, way at the beginning. Used to do conversion copywriting for people's launches. They could hire you for like $1,500 for a VIP day. And I think you also offered a bunch of other just kind of tangential services that people could hire you a la carte for you then pivoted to offering one standardized offer for one specialized audience that produced one very specific result so that transition into the latter.
Can you kind of just give our listeners some context around like, what does that standardized offer look like these days that allows you to charge that $50,000 price tag?
Sure. Okay, yeah. So my standardized offer is setting up a end to end day one evergreen funnel, so that includes everything. So the ads, the opt in page, the webinar slide deck, the sales page, all of the emails and then emails inviting your list into the funnel, emails reinviting Your list back into the funnel later and setting up all of the 10 customer feedback points. And so while 50k I'm sure a lot of people get sticker shock at that, I'm like, Whoa, that's that's so much money. But you know, these, these funnels, are generating, like, literally millions of dollars for my clients. So well, yes, 50k is a lot, actually, if you have a funnel set up that has the power to generate you 100 200k every month, you're going to see return on investment on that.
And what I'll do is I'll have that standardized offer, and then I have an optimization retainer, so it's like, Okay, I've set up all of these touch points for you. Now I'm going to be on your team optimizing the funnel month after month, so that you can continue to see an increase in conversions, and make sure you're optimizing seasonally as well, so that the funnel keeps feeling fresh, keeps keeps converting. Oh, so sorry. And what does that investment look like for the optimization side? Yeah, so that's $10,000 a month. But that's not just it's not like, oh, I'll just be like, Oh, why didn't go and go and change your headline to this? I'll actually, I have a designer on my team and an email specialist, and we'll go in and we'll make the changes so it's completely hands off for the client that they're seeing results. And it's, you know, it's, you need to be the optimization retainer.
You need to give it, usually three to six months. It's not like you're straight away going to see results, but having someone to actually figure out what's what's resonating and optimizing for that, and then clients will see continuous growth so that they can scale that ad spend without having these big, leaky holes, right?
And in terms of like getting zoned in on that one audience, I know you obviously serve course creators, but do you find that your day one evergreen funnel setup is better suited for a specific type of course creator, for example, one with this model of program, or one with a product, or course that is at least x dollars in terms of price. Like, do you have any further specifications that really help you narrow in on the best client
yeah,
yeah, so kind of from the back end and internally, what I think of as an ideal client would be they're making at least one to two to $3 million a year, and they're wanting to scale that the course itself, I recommend it between $502,000. what I found is more than $2,000 tends to need a little bit more nurturing to just because the idea with the day, whatever we find out is you get a new lead, you do a webinar, you open up the offer. They've got seven days, so they might have never heard of you before, for anything under 2000 depending on the the audience that the Creator serving that can be enough, but more than that, we just usually need a little bit more of a run up.
And I love working with course creators who teach people how to make money doing something that they love. So course creators who teach copywriters or designers or bookkeepers how to turn that into an actual business. So yeah, those are, those are my ideal clients. And I found as well. When the course is directly you can directly tie it to a return on investment. For the students, it's like, okay, if you, you know, join this copywriting course, I'll show you how to raise your prices. Your price is, sorry, to $10,000 and that's an easy sell.
Yeah, no. I love the clarity that you have around explaining who, who that person is. I'm sure it makes it much easier for the person on the other end to feel confident buying from you, knowing that you have such clarity on what's going to set them up for success. Another point that you leverage in your book is that maybe the point isn't the right word, but a stance that you took, let's say, is that you don't need dozens of case studies to include in your book, even though you are you know, teaching on a specific expertise. You said, get one really good one, and you can always add more later. So tell us about what is your reasoning behind this, and what is that one big client case study that you included in your in your book?
Yeah, I guess my reason behind it is just don't hold yourself back. I think we're really good at that is thinking, Oh, I'll write the book once. I have five case studies, and then you get five case studies, and you think, Oh, I just need a few more. You know, you don't just freaking do it, you know, you can always do it later. So my one case study was for fast and easy QB eyes, and they teach bookkeepers the skills that they can use to make more money. So they had a new course the the company, they were a six figure business. They wanted to scale to six figure months. So I helped them launch their product in January. So this was, this was Day Zero evergreen.
So I do offer launches, but it's launching the day one evergreen funnel. So it's not, it's not a heap suppress and not like, oh, this has to perform. It's like, we're going to do this launch. It get the data and immediately take this evergreen and optimize for the launch data. So they did that, and they made $600,000 that month. They outpaced all of their sales from the previous year. Within six months, they'd scaled to 1.1 Million with that. Course, a million dollars of that was ad spend, and they're now a multi million dollar company. Wow. So that's my day whenever green case study.
Another reason, I think, if you just have one really good one is,well, there is actually, I think I've talked about this in an interview before, but it's called, I'm totally blanking, who sings, New York, New York. Oh, Sinatra. Sinatra. It's called the Sinatra effect, yeah, if you can make it, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. So it's a concept I read in the book, Made to Stick. And it's, if you can give a case study that's, you know, that's so big, so great. Shows, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.
And the example he gives in the book is a shipping company, and they were competing with like FedEx and all these big, big businesses. So they but they were tasked with selling the Harry Potter books, which was, which was such a tough one, because you had to make sure they were released at the same time everywhere, because otherwise a store could open early, and there was all these problems. But they successfully did that, and that was there, if they can make it there, they can make it anywhere. And from that, they were able to, like, massively scale their business. So yeah, that's you don't it's not always quantity. Sometimes just having one really good story that resonates with your audience will do the trick.
Oh, I love that. I haven't heard of that Sinatra effect before, but you said the book was, make it stick. Made to Stick. Oh, Made to Stick. Okay, yeah, I'll add it to my reading list. You add psychology of money, and then I'll add Made to Stick. And your books, little book swap there, perfect. Okay, that was extremely, extremely helpful.
I know that when you launched this book, you had 800 you had 800 subscribers. How much have you grown your list since publishing the book? Has that been a side effect of the book launch at all? Or, I know that's not the focus, obviously, but like just curious, has it? Has it seen increases because of the book?
I know it's at over 1000 now. I'm not actively going my list. I know this is so bad for me to say, because this morning is so important, but what I mean I've I've got more course buyers. My conversion rate on my from my day one evergreen funnel for my course is over 10% some someone says 20% and I know that's because people are buying the book first, and they're telling me that in my thank you page, survey, what was going on in your life. Voice, they're saying, I bought the book. So I know and that that's really helpful, actually.
And just going back to why you should have that question in real thank you page, because now I'm I've been thinking, okay, what can I do? How can I increase core sales? And instead of running ads to my webinar, I'm going to run ads to my book, because my conversion rate there is so much higher, and that's all but I know that from that thank you page survey question. So that's going to be, I've, kind of, I've, I know that. I know that the book is doing good for me, people. People like it. It's converting into course buyers. The only reason I haven't done what would that information is because I've been busy with client work and moving house. But that's going to be for the end of q4 I'm gonna, I'm gonna drive out there and just see what happens when I pump, pump a ton of traffic, and then, and then, when you ask them about my list growth, though, I have a better answer
no. I mean, we should not discount that 800 to 1000 plus. I mean, that's a 200 net growth, and that is what 25% growth from, from? I mean, if you start with 800 right, it's 25% growth. That is not insignificant, especially because, like you said, it's not even at the forefront of your your efforts. You just mentioned that running ads the book is going to be kind of like a focus for you later in this year and then maybe into next. By the way, I just want to commend you. 10% conversion on evergreen is absolutely incredible. I think that's what a lot of people hope for on, you know, live launches. So again, just more testament to you being the expert in this space, the one to 2k a month that you make totally passively.
I put that in air quotes if you're watching this on YouTube, because, you know, I don't love using the word passive as it relates to the sales of courses or digital products, just because there's obviously a lot of work that goes into something like a funnel to make it quote, unquote passive. But this one to 2k that you're selling without active marketing, I think that's a fair assessment, right? You're not actively promoting it on organic social. You're not actively emailing your list about it. You're not active you're not actively running any sort of paid ads to that funnel. Is it truly through basically just book sales that people are entering into that funnel and then that's what's producing that one to 2k in sales? Or is there any other, I guess, entry points into the funnel that are driving people to purchase.
Yeah, so there are the entry points. So I have a pop up on my website. I know pop ups are annoying, but I do recommend have a pop up on your website, because I think it's 99% of people that are on the website sign up for the webinar. So youre Missing out if you, if you don't have that, and people come to my website, I do, I do podcasts. So I've been this year. My Word has been Authority building. So I went. Every time I'll do a podcast, I will get a couple of sales. It's not truly just for my book, but I have noticed my conversion rates have gone up a lot since having that book and that I'm actually I'm getting more sales, and, like, even the podcast that more. And, like I said, I'm getting those invitations from from doing the book. So it all works together to create this kind of, yeah, this this effect where I'm getting more core sales, and also creating the illusion that I'm everywhere, which I think helps people want to buy from me
absolutely well, I'd be shocked if there weren't at least a handful of people who are listening to this today who go run to Amazon and buy your ebook. Myself included. So thank you so much. Just for sharing so transparently. Abi, it's extremely helpful. I mean, this was like a mini masterclass in funnel optimization, but also in how you can utilize a book as your front end to really, like you said, build authority and call on those right fit high ticket clients, and to also sell your other resources on autopilot.
To wrap up, our case study, is there any other creative way that you've monetized this book that we haven't covered. The first idea that kind of came to mind is, like, because you're getting out there in authority building, like, have you sold the book in a bulk order before, in exchange for speaking engagement, compensation, or anything of that nature? I just wanted to give you the chance to share this. If you had any other ways that you've monetized the book?
No, I haven't, but I like that idea. Yeah, when I mean, when I start doing speaking on stages, I will definitely get that paper back out and be bringing, be bringing those
very smart I love that. Well, where can people continue to connect with you, Abi, after listening to this episode, or if they want to experience the funnel that you've kind of talked about in real time, and kind of, actually, you know, walk through it themselves. What Link can they go to to enter your funnel?
Sure, so I would usually say LinkedIn, but I'm actually really trying to build my Instagram right now. So if you want to go, if you want to connect over there and just say hi, or if you, you know, if you want to talk about your course, your funnel, or whatever's going on. So it will be at apt content. From there, you can find my website. I have a many chat funnel running. So you know, if you comment masterclass on any of my posts, you'll get the link to sign up for the webinar there. I know I said, Yeah, my high ticket offer is 50,000 but I do for the right fit. I will write your sales page or do a final audit at a lower price, if you're not quite at the million dollar mark yet. But yeah, get get my book. I'd say that's the best place to start. Get a taste for it if it's resonating. Watch my webinar and yeah, just come say hi.
I love it. All the ways to connect, well, all the ways, if you're watching this on YouTube, below in the video description will be Abi's Book link as well as her Instagram, so you can connect in those places. And then, of course, if you're listening to this, make sure you head into the show notes for those links as well. Abi, thank you so much again for joining us, and for all of you, thank you for tuning in. We'll catch you in next week's episode.
Thanks, Ellen.
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