Okay, we are talking about owning your narrative and how to share it. And Jon, it would be completely remiss if we did not bring on the man, the myth, the legend, who literally inspired an entire trend for us. And it is such a joy to bring back to the podcast. And what I would say is the fastest return ask we have ever had in the history of the podcast. And so we're about to learn and have your minds blown about how to own your narrative, how to share it, and how to do it in joy with Dr Tim Lampkin. He is the founder and CEO of higher purpose co it is a brilliant economic justice nonprofit that's prioritizing economic opportunity in black communities across Mississippi, and they're doing it by supporting the ownership of financial, cultural and political power. Hello, those are our people. And Dr Tim joined us on the podcast last season, and we were so deeply inspired by what he was sharing that we wanted to make this entire trend of focus for this year. And so I want you to think about this, friends. There are so many narratives that are swirling around our nonprofits. They're the narratives we're telling ourselves. They're the narratives that are happening within the walls of our organizations. And sometimes that gap between leaders and frontline staff, there is a public narrative, a set of assumptions, beliefs and pre conceptions about our missions and the communities we serve, and the overall narrative surrounding nonprofits and social impact organization. It is time to empower the narrators with a unified story, and it's time for us to own our narrative and share it deeply with our community as we invite them in. And no one knows this better than Dr Tim. So thank you so much for coming back on to the show, Tim. We are just delighted to have you back.
Oh, thank you so much. I'm super excited to chat with you all again, and that was an amazing intro there. I will add that to my bio in some, some way so
You did that. You inspired every bit of that. And I think I really want to encourage people to go back and listen to your first episode, and I want you to kind of talk about the internal shift you personally felt and that you helped your team navigate when they were starting to shift the narratives that they were telling themselves. So start there.
Well, I think the most important part that you mentioned is the inner work that I had to do with myself. I remember probably 10 years ago, someone asked me, like, What's the hardest thing that you had to do since starting this work? And I said I had to get out of my own way. I had to really talk to myself in a different way. And I think, you know, a lot of us have not had that experience in our personal or professional lives, to be able to practice talking kindly and loving to ourselves. And so that's one of the things I had to do as a leader, understanding that I already had everything I needed, and understanding that this narrative that I had been told for decades was not the narrative that I was willing to Accept. And so I think that shortness and understanding that we were approaching a particular time in our our, you know, journey as organization, it was really critical for us to do more narrative change work. And why not start internally first? And so that was really critical. I think the other part of this too, is I had to point to examples where the negative narrative about our region was causing real harm. I think oftentimes we see headline stories in the media and we think, okay, that's just another sensational story, but I had to really bring that down to the local level. You know, what's happening in our state is basically a cycle that has worked for so many years, that has kept folks in impoverished communities and underestimated communities always being the center of the story, but not the center of the resources. And so I think that, for me, was really critical to really start to shift the narrative. So that has been a ongoing journey. I think the stories that we have been able to be a part of not only have been liberating for the team, but also anyone that has come into contact with our journey. It is very authentic. It's real, it's transparent, and I think that that is the right type of ingredients that allows us to really lean more into our. Our narrative.
Yeah, it's like such a much more empowered posture and the power, it centers the power. It's not giving away the power, but centering the power that you have and really allowing you to step into it. So I love that. I mean, we talk a lot on the podcast about starting from within. So that really resonates with this community, that that's how transformation happens. It taps into, you know, our core being that's that's moving through this work. So, I mean, you've touched on it, but I wonder if you go a little deeper about, you know, really challenging the preconceived notions about your work in the communities that you were serving. I mean, we're in a very tenuous time with a lot of change on the horizon, specifically this year as a country. So I think this will resonate with a lot of folks that feel like maybe the story that's being told isn't the reality that's that's the truth in their community. So would you walk us through what did that journey look like for you, specifically in your org? And what's some advice for people that are facing a similar path?
Well, we had to look at the overall goal in terms of what we were trying to achieve. I think when we get into the weeds of metrics and outputs and outcomes, I think all of that is important. But for us, as it relates to this particular work, we wanted to make sure that it was something that we could touch and feel. So it was more about those, like intangible things that you just just know and you just understand that this is the right work, this is the right way. And so for us, it was really making sure that we felt a sense of agency in our work. How do we make sure that we come into our environment happy and whole and heal for us? That was really important, and so that became kind of our guiding light, our North Star, that allowed us to really understand that, okay, this is not about something that we're gonna, you know, report out on. Share this like, large, no
outcome measurement that doesn't, like, attract anyone to your mesh, to your mission,
yeah? Like, this is, this is about us getting up every day feeling good about the work that we're doing in the world, and how do we do that? We do that first by telling a different story to ourselves and also rejecting any time we encounter a negative narrative. I think there are a lot of stories happening now that are, you know, incomplete anytime there's a story and there's no solution or it's not pointing to an organization or entity that is bringing a solution to the to the table. For me, the story is incomplete. Yes, we know problems exist, but who is actually helping to solve the problem? And so what we recognize, for us, it was really important that we continue to lift up the people that were on the ground beyond our team and see them as solutionaries. I think, I think that's the most important part, as we continue to really dive even deeper into understanding the role of stories and shifting the narrative. I think the last point I will anchor around on is the intentionality of when the stories are told and how the stories are told. I think timing as we know, as we've seen in the last four years, timing and how these stories tell. I mean, are told are really critical, and so we are really thoughtful and intentional about meeting the moment with the stories that allow us to rise above the noise and some of the toxic stories that are out there about nonprofits, about the South, about black and brown people, like, how do we? How do we say that like we're still fighting without being so confrontational, right? How do we? How do we own our agency and anchor ourselves and our work without Miss using our platform and our power to minimize someone else's work. We can absolutely be a part of a civil discourse and disagree with someone's approach and their method and their overall strategy. We can do that and still be very centered and anchoring ourselves and but this is what we care about, right? That's that's important to them, but this is important to us. And so I think that's the other part, just understanding the timing of those stories and who is at the center of those stories, I think is really important as well. Tim.
Tim, I think you're so smart. I think you're so spot on, because we have been talking about storytelling being a vessel to connection for ever. I want to say until this podcast came on, but I think you are shifting the lens just a little bit in a way that I think could be profound for this sector, because you're talking about story not just being the connector and the community builder. You're talking about story being the liberator. You're talking about storytelling giving someone their voice and their agency and their truth back. And I want people to understand the power that is here for you, that is here for the taking when you approach this and and I'm going to read a quote, I guess I'm quote, I'm quoting Tim, back to Tim from his last podcast, because I did think that this was incredibly powerful. And Tim taught you talked about like, first we had to change the stories we were telling ourselves, and then, as an organization, we had to say, what are the stories we've been told, and what are the stories we need to tell to debunk these preconceived notions. So that's where you started. And then you created this new advocates for this new story that we're telling. And people were magnets to that. And then, to me, the ultimate compliment is people coming to you saying, you know, when they see your team out and about Tim, the team seems so happy. They seem so joyful and lit up about the work. Why? Because you believe in telling a different story. You believe in telling this different narrative about Mississippi, and it's starting to resonate. And you're growing believers who believe in the magnet of this possibility. And so I just think this is such a great and beautiful case study. And I want to know how you've seen like, the larger narrative start to on, like, on, play out around the greater nonprofit sector. You know these phrases, like nonprofits should do more with less, talk us through how you sort of navigate some of these systemic narratives that people intrinsically already believe. How do we overcome that?
Yeah, well, I think the first thing that I kind of want to respond to, and that is, storytelling is a part of your strategy. Like it. I think so many nonprofits that I talk with across the country, storytelling is an afterthought, right? Or it's like, kind of wrapped up in this, like, marketing communications, and it's more about, like, you know, promoting the event or promoting the outreach workshop, right? It's not necessarily anchoring down, right, okay, keep reminding people, why are you doing? What you're doing? Who are you serving? Where are you serving? And so I think that, for me, it's how it differs a little bit in terms of it being embedded into the strategy of the organization. So I think some non profit leaders have adapted to that change and understand that it is really critical to understanding how we create this much larger narrative. I do think the larger feel is understanding that there's power in storytelling. I'm seeing that shift happen. I think, the baseline of how we're using the model, the blueprint of that, in my opinion, it's not universal right now, and I would love to see the industry, the sector, move towards embracing storytelling in a more robust way. Right when we think about going into conversations with funders, we're talking about programmatic support, we're talking about operational support, storytelling, our strategy is not a part of that oftentimes, right? And so we have started to bring storytelling into our conversation. Some people describe it as narrative change, and I do think there is the opportunity to still segment a portion of what what I'm describing out as people think about creating more intentional strategies. The other part here too is I think there is a role of storytelling as it relates to learning and evaluation. I think for me, I would love to see how learning and evaluation is the umbrella that storytelling is just one anchor underneath learning and evaluation and we. Haven't had the the time or the space in a real way, in my opinion, to really hone this skill, right? Because a lot of nonprofits such as ourselves, we are spending more time on trying to fundraise and keeping the doors open. But what if we actually have the resources and the capacity to deepen our ability and understanding of how to use storytelling, not to just kind of unlock more dollars for our organization, but to really unlock the goals and the dreams and the power that lives inside the individuals and the communities that we are serving very much. So the storytelling resources stopped within the organization, and not are they're not leveraged to go externally. And so I think that's what I would love to see the field move toward a more collective way. And I think the last point I'll add here is that as we're thinking about these larger strategies, I think there's a unique opportunity to leverage storytelling to remind people of the connections that we have across regions, across sectors, across rural, urban I think we have not done a good job of making those connections when we think about the Mississippi River, for example, runs through several states. I talk to people all the time in Minnesota, and we talk about the connection that we have with the Mississippi River. Why are we not hearing more stories about how the river impacts our lives, whether we live in Minnesota or Mississippi, how do we create those connections where storytelling is not just a bridge that binds us, but it's the it's a bridge that liberates us to your early point. And I think the liberation only happens when we're honest, and we move move slightly deeper, from storytelling to truth telling, and I think that's the difference for me, and it allows us to really unlock the true humanity and stop trying to hide, you know, behind these titles and these accolades and these organizational accomplishments, it allows us to really get to the heart, and that, for me, is getting getting more connected to human people, right to to to our humanity, and really understanding that we're very much so alike than we are different.
Tim, you just said so much there that I would love to unpack. I mean, I'll tell you what I'm hearing reflected back, and I want to say it was Ben Collier at FarmLink project that first piqued my interest of the idea that storytelling can be part of our theory of change. And it's like it's that important, it's that core to how it could be embedded in our organizations. And a lot of us are thinking of it as a marketing tactic. So I just want to lift like, thank you for that. Yeah, boy, this truth telling, this connective tissue between states and peoples and just all of us like, this is the thing that survived millennia, right? I mean, this idea of storytelling, of how we pass down and connect with one another, it's not going away, and that truth telling is more important than ever, I think, with the rise of AI as well. So you're, you're just really, you've got a lot of things going in my head, but I want to ask you, how has this changed, like in what ways has owning this narrative, you know, owning your story, owning your truth, impacted your relationships with donors and funders and maybe partners? What have you seen come to life?
Well, some of the things that we have seen over the last, I would say, five years, is a deeper understanding that we are the experts. You know. Who would have thought that it would have taken us, you know, all this time to articulate out that we are the experts of our community. I think the storytelling and the truth telling created the vessel for a lot of donors and funders that wanted to be a part of our work and didn't necessarily know where to start, but over time, they have been a part of, this much larger movement and initiative that's happening in Mississippi. I think the other part of this too is we have become more of a beacon of hope in our region. We have become a hub of resources for the region, and it is through the storytelling that has allowed us to paint a much fuller, richer, vibrant journey for our donors and funders. I think the other part of this too is the rally behind our organization is very much. So that, right? It's not just people are supporting Tim Lampkin. It may have started that way, as a founder story, as a founder's journey, and we know in nonprofit sectors that can be hit or miss with you know founder led, driven organizations. And the beautiful segue here is that it is for each and every day forever turning into a much larger entity and organization and movement and the sustainability of that is what I get excited about, because that means that this work has the possibility to extend beyond my term of leadership, beyond my lifetime, possibly, and so I think that, for me, reminds me of how important storytelling is. And I don't think we do enough of that deep thinking to understand that this is not just about a, you know, a cute, heartfelt story. This is much deeper. It's much bigger than one individual, even in how we articulate the larger vision for our work. It's much more about the collective. And so I think that has been the shift that is happened over the last couple of years. And our team, you know, they feel it, and it very much so, feels like we're in this together, and not operating, you know, in a in a silo of hope, right? It's more of a community of hope, right, of joy, of the possibilities,
yeah. And then you have taken what could have been the story of Tim, or it could have been the story of, you know, higher purpose CO, but it's really the story of many, and it's the story of Mississippi, and it's the story of the community and the humans that are connected to it. And that is a much richer story, and that is a story that people see themselves and and they want to be a part of crafting that story in that future. And so that's what I love so much about what you have done, Tim, and I want to get really tactical for people, because I think there's a lot of people saying, Okay, I believe in the theory of this. But how do I actually do it? So walk us through some pro tips for some of these missions who are ready to own their narrative and share it like where would you suggest that they start?
Well, the first thing I would suggest is doing a kind of a canvas scan of the stories that have been told about their organization and or the sector that they're in, whether it's, you know, health care or food justice or economic you know, justice or environmental justice, really thinking about what stories have been put out there already, and what didn't you like about those stories were there opportunities to deepen people's understanding of the work. That's the place I would start looking at and analyzing all the stories that have been told there. The second thing I would say is really kind of go all out and say, Okay, five years from now, what is the story that we want to be the headline? And you know, and this could be an exercise that you do with your executive team, the entire team, your board of directors, but what does the headline say? Right? Our organization does what, or did this or exceeded this right for for that piece, I think it allows people to step more into the collective thinking versus the individual, you know, leadership driven framing. And then, you know, the other part, the third part I would lift up, is the the assets, right, right. What are the assets that allow us to get there? Look at the asset mapping. So do we have a comms person? Do we have connections with a local college that can provide us an intern? Do we have tech, the technology that we need to really think about telling more consistent stories. And then the fourth thing I would add is thinking about how you can tell stories that really move people to understand not only the tactical part of your organization, but really think about the why. So, okay, you raised a million dollars. Why should we care? Why does that matter? And really go, in my opinion, start to lean more into some of those stories. And then the fifth thing I would say, and this is a little bit an. Orthodox is when you go through all of that, just remember to give yourself some grace, because what is going to happen is you're going to think about like, Oh, if we only would have done this sooner, if we only would have, you know, posted this, or we, you know now that we know these things, releasing yourself from those things that you didn't know, that you didn't really think about. Because what that brings you back to is the humanity, and for me, I think that's really important. We get wrapped up into the daily task of like doing the thing, and we just don't pause and give ourselves grace or celebrate anything that we have, you know, learned or accomplished. And so that would be kind of the fifth thing, I would say, because it gives people permission just to be human.
Becky, remember when you asked Dr Tim for tactics and he brings us like a master class? It was like a true five bullet points just truly just flowed, and it's grounded in, like, taking care of ourselves, understanding and leaning into the fact that we're humans and that it's going to be messy and not as direct of a path. What a beautiful Convo, man. I mean, I feel inspired that this is something everybody could take action on this year, and I'm excited to see the stories that are going to be told that maybe have been sitting off to the sides and so, I mean, my friend, you got to wrap us up with the one good thing, you know, how these conversations go? What is it? What's something that's, you know, stuck, stood out to you, maybe lifted to you in this conversation, or just a mantra that you live by, that you would leave with our community?
I think the biggest takeaway here that I can leave is remember the story you first told yourself and allow that to be the thing that that guides you on this journey. Because all of us have had that right, but we we started, we took the risks. And I think reminding you know yourselves that oftentimes there's necessary risks involved in anything that we've not done before, but we are equipped to handle all situations, and we have everything that we need in our disposal, and so leaning even more into that framing of abundance and community.
Tim, I just think you're a treasure to this sector. I want to also profoundly thank you for how you are changing the narrative arc in Mississippi, in your community. I hope it inspires people, one community at a time, and creates a ripple. I know people are going to want to connect with you after hearing this episode, tell us where you hang out online and the best way people can find you or higher purpose.
Yeah. So. Dr. Tim Lampkin on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, also higher purpose CO on those same platforms. And you can feel free to check out our website, higher purpose code.org, and stay tuned for some more amazing stories that we're going to share this year about the people that we are serving and how we are deepening our impact in community.
We can't wait. And I would point people to your social channels. Like, particularly, I really like your Instagram. Like, you can see these stories that Tim is talking about playing out in real time, if you want real time examples of how this plays out, how narrative is shared, how it gives people back the power it is just a beautiful, beautiful exercise and templates on those socials. So Tim, thank you for coming back in. We'll give you another invitation in about another eight weeks, and we'll see what
else. Yeah, my friend, Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
