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So let's get started. Happy Friday,
happy Friday, let's dive into habits. I'm so excited. Everybody came back.
Seriously. I mean, last week, we kicked off officially kicked off our new series, the habits of an impactful fundraiser. And you know, we're going to be kicking through this for the next about 10 weeks to unpack each of the different positions in a development shop that's really going to take you to the next level. And we kind of looked around and Canvas our friends of like who is doing this really well. You know, we looked around and we're like, we got to invite Sabrina back to the podcast to teach us some trade. We seriously. So if you remember Sabrina Walker Hernandez, she came in and basically rocked our socks off on the podcast. And she works with organizations of all shapes and sizes, teaching them about board and how to show up better as fundraisers. And she gives people the empowerment to do that, because it's part of her own lived experience. I mean, she is from a small town in Texas, that was ranked one of the poorest counties in the United States. And she blew this nonprofit out of the box from like a $750,000 budget to more than two and a half million and even completed a $12 million comprehensive capital campaign, which was only powered because of these, this incredible board that was part of it and the relationships that she cultivated. And so I'm so excited to have Sabrina back on the podcast, like get up to this table. Sabrina, Hello, good to see you.
I am so excited to be here. And I just love this format. Let me say because busy professionals don't have time they want the 123 here. So I'm so excited for that.
I mean, Sabrina, we got to kick it to you too, because you like fell in love with this space. Why did it become such a critical part of your work and your focus?
Well, you know, I love working with boys boards, because it takes a team effort. And really, when people get on a board of directors, a lot of times they're on that board, you know, they have different motivations for being on the board. Let's start there, right, and you have to lean into what their motivation is. And you also have to lean into what their strengths are. And so I serve on a board, I'm sure you serve on a board, a lot of people have served on a board and they want to do good. But they just need to be told what to do. And I think a lot of times CEOs don't do that. Because they don't want to feel like they're being bossy. Well, at the end of the day, you have to be bossy, quote, unquote, because as to be a good board member, we want to know what it is that we need to do. So you need to tell me, I'm not writing the day to day operations of your organization. I don't know what you need, I have my full time job. I have my family. I know I'm here. I know, I want to help. So you have to tell me what I need to do. You can't not tell me and then get frustrated and say, Well, my board doesn't do anything.
So men, and if you're doing a great job with your onboarding, there's no surprises that the Board Member knows exactly what they're walking into. They know what they've signed up for. And so that's that's just a little, I guess, pro tip that we haven't even dove into the tactics yet. But that is a great solid point, Sabrina,
that that is a great solid point. And that's one of my frustrations is people don't want to talk with board members during the recruitment process about fundraising. They try to stick I've heard people say, no, no, no, we're not going to talk about fundraisers, because that's going to scare me away. I go, that is so unfair. You just go spring and autumn. Hmm. So you got to talk about it during the fundraising. I mean, during the recruitment process, and you got to structure how you talk about fundraising, right? It's not all about just asking for money. It is about building relationships and all those components. Well, I
love that segue because I feel like the reason we wanted to really lean into this series this season is because we really believe in playing the long game. And the long game is predicated on doing a certain set of things that are aligned with the right bigger question that you're trying to attack or right big goal over a long period of time. And so we want this series to, like, unlock and get focused on, what is the bigger, better question that board members should be asking about their engagement? And then I want to unpack like, what are the habits, you know, the daily things that they can do to get them there? So let's start with this big question. What is the right questions that a board member should be asking about their involvement?
I think the right questions that a board member should be asking is, what are the expectations of me? How much time should is devoted to to serving what makes a good board member? What are the standards? What am I being judged by? Those are the questions that those are the things that I asked when I joined about a board, how much time is spent fundraising, how much time is spent on planning? How much time is spent in the meeting? Is their meeting schedule? I can't believe it, guys. There's some, there's some organizations that don't have a standing meeting. And to me, that's, that's a clue. If you don't have a standing meeting calendar, I'm probably not a good board member for you. Because I like to give at 100%. But I'm busy. And so I need to know when we're meeting. And so a board meeting, I need to know when the meetings are, I need to know what my expectation of giving is, what's my expectation of fundraising, how much to how long are the meetings, all of those kinds of things are things that board members should be asking, and a good organization should be providing. So if you haven't figured it out yet, I always like to include a document that says it takes about 120 hours to be an effective board member in a year. And that's broken down by you know, this much this many hours in fundraising. This many hours, I'm planning this many hours, you know, in program volunteer, but people want to know, what am I committing to?
Yeah, that seems so basic. So kindergarten, but yet we do not do that. And I think it's just a common misstep. And that's what we want to attack in this series is what are the basic common things that we can do to not only set up our board members for success, but it's really setting up the mission for success. So I want to throw this one at you. I want you to attack this next question from two different viewpoints. I want to know what are the three daily habits or actions for success in this role, and I want it based off three habits from a board member. And three habits from the executive director, because we're talking about two people who are coming at this relationship. For Derek very different reasons.
So I think the three habits are for the CEO is habit one, go in knowing what your game plan is for the board that week, I spent a lot of time believe it or not on Mondays in a restaurant, tucked in a corner, writing down, this is what I need to happen for my board this week. In order to hit these goals that I have, I need to call this particular this specific board member and ask them to do this, I need to text this specific board member and ask them to do this, because That's habit number two, after you write down what you're trying to accomplish. Habit number two is communicating with them in their language in their channel. Lots of board members don't some board members don't like emails, some will respond to texts, some will you have to figure that piece out. And that's a tip. And then another daily tip is, and I don't know if it's daily, but I did it weekly, I did this thing called board bus. What I kind of wrapped up the week and told the board. This is what's happened. This is what's happened in the organization. And I highlighted other board members participation in that process, one to give them some ideas about how they can get involved as well. And then to just a shout out those board members who did get involved that week, and helping accomplish those goals. And then on the side of the board, one I'm going to really focus in on a board chair, because I think the relationship is with the board chair between the CEO and the board chair. And so with the board chair, one of the habits should be is to check in on your CEO. Don't wait for your CEO to call you check in once a week, right? Whether that's text, whether that's email, check in not just to see you know what work has been accomplished, but check in on our well being because at the end of the day, you need to have a relationship, right, a genuine relationship where you're supporting each other. So that's going to be one of the biggest habits that I think should have Been around that. And then number two is going to go back again to if you're doing number one, this should be totally fine. Don't just check in when there's a crises, you are there to really support the organization. And then the other habit, I would say, the third habit for for a board chair is to not just check in with the CEO, but check in with the entire board. You know that conversation and talking to them should not just be happening. When you have a board meeting, you should be checking in with your board collectively. So those are the things that I was saying.
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I mean, okay, we of course, love that value aligns with everything we talked about here, because one of the one of the threads we want as all these habit conversations is to figure out where to prioritize time. Because all obviously we're all working with scarcity of time. So from the CEOs perspective, how do they balance you know, communicating with the board chair versus the Board in general.
So I would say, the approach that I took and and that works is, I'm gonna look at the big the big picture. So as far as the board chair, you should really strive to have an authentic relationship with your board chair, and have a standing meeting, at least once a month with your board chair. That's where you go to lunch, you talk about what's happening in the organization, you talk about, you know, what are some of the challenges, so I'm going to help I'm going to need from from you and from the board. And then that's going to build that relationship for not only when they're board chair, but from when they're not board chair, and they're just on the board, they're going to be your board champion, they're going to be your advocate, because they're going to see how much work you put into it. And then the board and whole, I made it a point to meet with every single member of my board, at least one time, face to face, outside of a board meeting like this, you have to do that. Because again, you're building relationships with them. And then I identify three to four people on the board. Now I had a board of 21, I want people to know that I identified three to four people on the board, that were going to be my board champions. And what do I mean by board champions, those are the people who have your back, you know, you want to affect change, they will be your voice for you is coming from a board member, you, you might have stuck your foot in your mouth during a community meeting or something like that, which I've done, they're gonna come and smooth it over with the community. That board member who, you know, you have a conference and you want to take some a board member with you and introduce them to something new, so they can come back and advocate it to the board. Those of your board champions have about three or four them and they don't have to be the board chair. They don't have to be but they have to be people that other board members respect. And you really really focus on building a relationship like on a genuine friendship with with these champions. And that really is what I found to be the key is to have those board champions have where you Elise, communicate, go to lunch, I always say go to lunch because I love food one and two, you know, you build relationships over food, right? And so I would go to lunch or breakfast again with a board member, every single board member at least one time outside of the board room setting and meet once a month with your board chair, face to face, not email, not text, face to face. And I found that that really works. And not just anecdotally, I found that works because board members who come back to me board chair to come back to me and they said you know, I really appreciate that you develop that relationship that you provide it reminders that you, you know, you you had that. And I thought, honestly, I thought I was being bossy. I sometimes I question Am I being too bossy? You know, these are my bosses, but I'm telling you what to do, am I being too bossy? And they've come back continually and said, You know, I appreciate what you did. You held us accountable. I it became, I had one board member, his name is Joe Kyoga. And he's a president of a bank. And I really love Joe. And Joe said, you know, at some point, it became where I did not want to disappoint you. And I was like, thou, you know, you've arrived, he's like, it was like, Man, I don't want to disappoint Sabrina. So I better do this. Or I better do that. And he said, I was set aside an hour and say, Okay, I'm gonna work on everything that she needs me to work on during this time, because I didn't want to disappoint you.
Okay, Sabrina, I gotta, I gotta hit pause on all these rapid fire questions to make sure that no one missed what you just said there that example with Joe. That is exactly what we're aiming for. Because that right there embodies that there is no power dynamic going on. The mission thrives more vibrantly, when we're all in lockstep in the exact same rhythm. When there's not anyone reporting to anyone, when we're all just collectively moving toward the same goal. We had a brilliant conversation lately, with two excellent board members, one was Mona Sinha, who's the chairman of women moving millions. And another one was Tara Abraham's, who's the board chair at she's the first. And they're talking about what is a modern board look like? And folks, if you miss those, don't you worry, because we're about to roll up a playlist that's going to have all of these board conversations about what modern boards look like, in the shownotes. So check those out. But it really, the thing I took away from it was that when there's a partnership, and not a power dynamic, the mission will succeed. And so and it's also making me think back to our fourth core value, which is, it's not about giving, it's about belief. We don't want to build donors in our organizations, we want to build believers, believers show up differently. They show up not just to John's point, and to your point, during times of crises, they show up all the time they give what they have, and it's not just monetary, you know, it's it's their time to what you said their treasure. It's their network, it's their influence. So I love absolutely every all of this, and I'm wondering, like, what are some of the do this, don't do that habits that make a really good board member.
So what makes a really good board member is people that are willing, again, to give their time, do this show up to the board meetings do that. At minimum, when you were at the board meeting, ask questions, participate in the board meeting, if you are the CEO, and you're doing most of the talking, is that really a board meeting? Right, it's a board meeting. So as a board member, you have to participate in the meeting, you need to be leading the discussions the See, in my opinion, I always say that my opinion, the CEO is there to provide additional information. But if the CEO is doing their job in advance, that means you're setting up the board packets in advance. And that means that the board member has time to review the packet, you have an agenda and it says who's assigned to speak on what topic that that's where the Bossy comes in. Right? You're assigned to speak on this topic.
There's a reason bosses in bossy like, Yeah, feel empowered to go for that.
The next step. And this is a good habit to you send out that board packet, but the people who are going to lead a discussion, you pick up the phone, and you call them. And you say, Okay, on this board agenda, you're leading this discussion, have you had a chance to review the packet? Let me give you a summary of what that what that entails. Do you have any questions? Yes. Will it take time from you as a CEO? Yes, but imagine the productivity that you're going to get. And you're setting that standard of, okay, I need to look at these packets. Whereas if you're the CEO, who maybe sends out the packet, but don't make those calls, and then you get to the board meeting and you're doing all the talking. Nobody's probably looked at those packets, right? What you're doing is you're gaining your board members respect. So in gaining your board members respect, you don't you don't have those board members versus who will micromanage because they are trusting you, when micromanaging happens is usually a lack of trust in that partnership. And so you need to put efforts in place where you gain that trust.
I mean, it's about trust. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, I just keep hearing that thread and everything you're saying, and the love, you have this coming from a place of love. And I feel that in how you talk, because when you align believers in your mission, like this should be such a magnet for donors, and just for energy, good energy moving into your organization. So I mean, Sabrina, we talk a lot about KPIs or KPIs, key performance indicators, you know, fundraisers are really held to a lot of those? What are those KPIs that really matter to a board member? Like what should they be paying attention to maybe for their own service, or what they should be paying attention to, for an organization
and what doesn't matter? It depends
on the organization. So I happen to serve on several different boards. But one of the common KPIs, as I always look at is financials. Of course, now, there are some boards that put the financials on consent agenda. I mean, if you're in a really healthy place, that's that's always good. But then there's some that, you know, finances are discussed, where there isn't consent agenda, or is the actual discussion, I always look at the financials. That's what, and then depending on the organization, and what your mission is, I look at the number of clients that are served, right? If, again, depending on your mission and where you're going. But a number of clients that are served is also a good KPI to look at as well. So money, any KPIs associated with money. And also with client serve. But the other, the other one that I'm going to say that I think board members should be looking at is going to be how their agenda is structured, and really looking at those strategic plan goals. Because I think your agenda, how it is develop, should really be dictated by your strategic planning goals. And looking at that every month, or quarterly or bimonthly, or however often you meet is a great way to make sure your organization is moving forward. Because a lot of times, you get these strategic plans, and you you go through a retreating and spend the time, but then that plan becomes like a relic on the shelf.
And no one else does capture. Yeah, no one gets it back out. Yeah,
no one gets it back out. So if you align your KPIs with your strategic plan, and have it at the forefront of your agenda, you know, as the the background, the framework of your, your board agenda, that's what I will look at.
Okay, I'm gonna throw something in here out of left field, because it's something that I really want to tackle with boards. And I'd love to get your perspective on. How do we talk to our boards about innovation? How do we work into the conversation, how important it is, for us to try stuff to put money in the budget for that to put time in our calendars for that? What advice would you give to somebody out there who is really trying to push that maybe even as a value, a cultural value for the organization?
Chicken an egg, right? That's a that's a good point. Because what I've learned is, if I again, goes back to kind of like that board champion, if I can get one board member to go and the right board member to go to like a national conference of some sort and get that energy and that inspiration, and be surrounded with other organizations and board members who have had that problem, innovated through that problem and found a solution right, then that energy that that board member gets can come back. And they start talking and converting other board members. And I've always found that getting your board members to trainings or conferences outside of the community has been so helpful in in my journey, it really has. But having started off with a budget of $750,000, right. One of the first things that people cut is travel in training. So it's a chicken and egg problem chain element, right and professional development. So if you could just carve out some monies where you can get yourself and one change maker to a conference. And that change maker has that inner GE, in that respect of other board members, and can come back and champion, that energy spreads. That's what I've seen work. And there's nothing like going out and finding out that your organization is not that unique. And that others have dealt with that problem. And they've solved that problem. And you actually have solved problems that that other organization is struggling with. And there's synergy in that. And there's energy and synergy in that and then bringing that back to your board.
I love that instructive, because it's something that everybody can wrap their arms around. So we want to round out these conversations, talking about our mental health. I mean, it's tough being a board member, among all the other things you listed, give us a piece of advice for mental health sake of like, how can you do this? And also take care of yourself?
Well, I serve on three boards, so I might not be the person for free, but I do I serve on three boards, you know, it's an 8020 rule. Right? It's all it's always that, you know, where certain people are doing more work. And I think, for mental health purposes, you have to realize that if you step back, someone else will step forward. And it's okay. It is okay. That so allow that to happen for yourself, give yourself grace is the best thing that I can say.
So as we're rounding out this conversation, I think it's incredibly important to talk about somebody who's doing this really well. So talk to us about a board member who has stood out to you as being someone who embodies all those luminary qualities that we're all looking for in a board member, do you have a story for us?
I'm happy for the opportunity to be able to speak this name, because I always believe in speaking people's name, and the person a name that I like to speak that if anybody could get themselves a board member like this, her name is Ella Delarosa. She passed away from breast cancer, but I am telling you, she was a board champion. When I say a board champion. You couldn't ask for a better board member, I could be myself with her. I called for on her for advice. If I needed her to go to a meeting with me, she was there. If I needed her to she was my catalyst that I took to calm for a conference and came back and inspired the board members. She was the catalyst that said, Okay, we need to do this capital campaign. And how do we do that? She was that catalyst. And that's one woman, one, one woman who changed the dynamics of our organization, who changed the dynamics of our board. And I will tell you, this is a story I will tell them Ella, I said she passed away of breast cancer. So she was going through some things at the time. But I remember one time she was going to the emergency room. And I get a phone call from her as she's going into the emergency room saying she's gonna miss the board meeting. She was so sad because it was her first board meeting that she was going to miss that. She was all in when I say all in, she was all in. And the other thing is, she was not retired. She was a Western Division Manager for a huge company. She had a number of employees reporting to her. She was also not only like Board Chair for My board, she was a rotary board chair. She was she was board chair for three different organizations while she was battling cancer, and she didn't miss a beat with any of those. I mean, just awesome lady all when I say an awesome lady, an awesome board member. I cannot speak her name enough and give her enough credit for everything that she did. And I'll add this one last thing, because every CEO needs this type of board member. Anytime anybody made me upset. I would write the email, like I was responding to them. But I was sent it to her. And she was saying, Okay, now you got it out of your system. And I was like, yes. Thank you for letting me do. That was
a mental health tip as well. Yes, love that.
Yes. So
Oh, man. I mean, what a full hearted way to end this conversation. And I mean, Sabrina we love the work that you're doing. I mean, you named your organization supporting world hope, which is just shows the kinship that we have with you and just how you show up and serve. Can you point people to how they can find you online? You are just such a powerhouse, although
yes, just visit my website at WWW dot supporting world hope.com From there you can You can connect with me on all my social media platforms and learn a little bit about me.
And I'll just give a double plug in there. If you're somebody who's listening to this nodding your head saying, I need this for my organization, please come find Sabrina. She is so brilliant at working with boards, and moving them through the evolution of being that advisory board, to being a working board where everyone feels like they matter, that their time is very intentional. And please build out an intentional plan for your board members during the year I think it will reshape not only engagement, but leadership and culture. So thank you, my friend, for bringing the tips we learned so much and just love sitting in your orbit.
Thank you.
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