Alright guys, welcome to another episode of live with a cork in the road and I'm Kelly. I'm your wine Explorer here in Atlanta, Georgia and I am chatting with people who are shaping the southeast wine industry.
Hey everyone, thanks for pushing play on episode 114 of the a cork in the road Podcast. I'm Kelly, your host and I'm based in Atlanta, Georgia and today's guest is also based in Atlanta. I sat down with Jordan smelt the wine director and co owner of Lucian books and wine located in Buckhead here in Atlanta, this beautiful place as a result of combining Jordan's wine knowledge and his wife Katie's bookstore expertise, they knew that Atlanta needed a wine and bookstore, he tells us how the concept came to be and what inspired them to combine these two passions. He also speaks to how he felt during those first couple days of opening as well as what excites him about the future of the Atlanta wine community. He has worked at some of the best restaurants in the city as well as served as the general manager of a wine distribution company. So He is no stranger to the world of wine, but I loved talking to him about his process for building the Lucian wine list that releases every two months and how he navigates his relationships with Georgia distributors to craft this menu. I hope you enjoy this conversation and I highly recommend booking a reservation as soon as their new wine list drops because he gives us some hints that the November and December list is going to be pretty special. This was also the first interview I conducted since the news of the Michelin Guide coming to Atlanta was released. So you will get to hear a little bit about Jordans perspective and reaction to the potential impact that this program will have on the Atlanta wine scene. I'm still catching up on life after returning from a trip to Spain. And you can catch highlights from our visits in Penedes, Priorat, and Rioja saved as a highlight on @acorkintheroad on Instagram. I also just have to recommend that you add a trip to San Sebastian to your travel bucket list because nobody prepared me adequately for how much fun it is to walk around that city and drink Txakoli and eat Pintxos, so great. My husband and I dreamed up this Spain trip live on a podcast episode actually. So I love that we were able to turn it into a reality. I wanted to understand these wines better by visiting the people and the places and I ended up getting so much more than that out of this trip the warmest hospitality insight into the rules and regulations of each region celler tours, delicious food pairings and all the joy that comes from Adventure and wine exploration. Thank you to everyone from Atlanta who was involved in setting up some of my visits like European Cellars, WInebow, Bon Vin selections, the sorting table, it was amazing to visit so many places that have connections to my friends and colleagues in the Atlanta wine industry. Coming up for a cork in the road LLC I have the fall version of SIP and Style a wine and fashion showcase coming up on Saturday September 16. And I believe there are still a few tickets left as of this podcast releasing so head to www.acorkintheroad.com to save your spot for this five wine five course fashion show experience featuring local clothing, handbag and jewelry designers at the Epicurean hotel in Midtown. I'm also heading back to North Georgia on Saturday, October 14 for the next session of my blind tasting series at Limoges cellars and this time, we will be tasting through a flight of sparkling red wines and you'll be the first to taste the newest addition to Dan and Kristina Limoges' portfolio. I'm also about to release tickets to a very special event happening on October 4 In partnership with Chef Pat Pascarella as well as a series of meet and greet tasting opportunities to welcome winery Sixteen 600 to Atlanta for the very first time, so make sure you follow @acorkintheroad on social media and you can sign up for our newsletter on acorkintheroad.com to be the first to know when new events are announced. The next podcast episode will release during the last week of September so until then, happy harvest season in the northern hemisphere happy football season to all who celebrate happy syrah grenach and gamay weather approaching and until next time please take care cheers to Jordan, Lucian, and episode 114.
So great to see you. Thanks for being on the show today and taking the time we've been scheming about this for a while haven't we?
We have Yes. Every time you come to the restaurant, I think we talked about it
and then finally we got it on a calendar which is pretty amazing for both of our schedules. We're recording this on a Monday is that your catch up on life day? you guys are now open all day five days a week so this year catch up on life day
we're closed Sundays and Mondays. So Sunday I would say is a bit more of a recovery day although Katie runs our social calendar so often that our plans but it's good. And so Sunday is really r&r and then Monday we're back in here planning for the for the new week. But Monday is the best Monday is the best day
well You're at Lucian and I see the background I see the books in the background. So you are on site. So yeah, you're preparing now for the next five days to be open all day to the guests that come in to enjoy.
I live here it's where it makes sense to record
second home. I love this. You did mention Katie, you and your wife are the masterminds behind Lucian books in wine. A place that for me when I come in, it teleports me kind of out of Atlanta. I sometimes feel like I'm in Europe or something. But I have heard that it really is the crossover of you the wine. And Katie the books is this correct?
100%. Katie and I met in 2012. I was buying wine at the time for Holman and Finch she was selling wine for a small distribution company that has since since closed but it was just a chance encounter tasted something that that she hadn't a bag she was there to meet somebody else actually, is the funny part. She wasn't coming to see me. But somebody pulled me over I tasted the wine she had and immediately bought a case. And that's how we met one of the situations where we have a very good creative synergy and always thought that we wanted to do something together. We just didn't know what it was going to be. Fast forward several years and we're kind of at a bit of a crossroads professionally. Her background is art history. She had previously had a bookstore in West Midtown called cover which unfortunately she closed. She was working at a an art gallery in Buckhead Jackson fine art, which is a photography gallery. She was looking at maybe rebooting cover. I was working as GM at distribution wine company. And we had talked about are we going to do a wine bar together one day is Katie going to reboot cover books, we thought well, if I do a wine bar, and you reboot the bookstore, we may as well say our goodbyes, we'll never see each other again, and the conversations just kept happening. We were on a trip to London to see her father and stepmother who were living there at the time. It was around Thanksgiving 2018. And on that trip, we stumbled into a wonderful bookstore that just happened to have this little pocket bar inside. And we kind of just had that moment where we realized Hang on a second, we may be able to put these two things together. And that's really the genesis of how the whole thing began a chance pop in we were we were waiting on a reservation I believe and just decided to walk down the street popped in and then it was like, Okay, that was kind of our light bulb moment.
It was a moment like a very singular moment like this being in a place and going oh, this is what Atlanta needs a wine and bookstore.
Yes. It's one of those. You think, yeah, let's let's go for it. Let's do it. So we just started hashing the ideas out, you know, one by one planning, and it grew from there. And we started getting pretty serious about it. And in 2019, the beginning of 2020. Looking for spaces. The space that we're in at the corner of history and far is really the only one that we seriously looked at. We thought Peachtree and Pharr is one of those corners in Atlanta where there's name recognition. You can tell people that live here, we're at the corner of Peachtree and Pharr and almost everyone knows what that means. And we thought that that was valuable. That's a very energetic corner. We wanted to be in Buckhead, and then COVID started and we kind of slowed everything down a little bit. But we decided to bet on the future and press on and got open in June of 2021.
And you are open and you are on a very vibrant corner. And people do have name recognition now of where you are now it's you know, it's the corner where Lucian is so that's that's what it's become now. Can you tell me the feelings that you had in those first couple days that you opened? You open the shop - what was that like?
Gosh, you feel almost every emotion in those first few days. But exhilarating, terrifying certainly come to mind. We sought out to open the place that we wished existed in Atlanta to in a nutshell is what we what we wanted to do. And you're wondering, okay, well, we think this is beautiful. And we think that it's going to be great. But Will anyone else think that? It's great. And so you're filled with a bit of fear factor there. Atlanta is dominated by big restaurants, I think and often big restaurants with big themes. And you know, at the other end of the spectrum, you find smaller restaurants, very specific beverage niche kind of wine programs, we sought to bridge that and find a middle ground there. Smaller restaurants with fairly expansive wine lists are common when you traveled in New York when you traveled to London, but not so much here. And it's been nice people flip through the book and they're like, Wow, this is this is extensive for a place that's this size, which is really rewarding. But to go back and yeah, you're You're when you open the doors for the first time you're fully exposed. I mean, the physical space, the food, the wine, the service, the music. It's it's very, very personal. And it's a reflection, Katie likes to say that you're hosting a perpetual dinner party and you're just hoping that people show up for it.
And no invites just an open door policy just come on,
hoping that people show up hoping that they leave happy, and that you can do it again the next day. And in those early days, we were a little short and front of house, and I was behind the bar, day and night. And I had not worked in service and a little over three years. And let me tell you, I was I was a bit rusty at times, I felt I was spinning around in circles, but it comes back to you. It's It's like riding a bike.
Well, and this place was yours. So not only is it that doing service and having those skills, but doing it the way that you envision it the way you want it. So now I'm sitting here with you and August of 2023. Is it what you wanted it to be?
Yes, we're always trying to tighten the screw. And think about ways that we can improve every aspect every phase of what we do. But I think in terms of the vision that we had, I think it has captured it quite well it's been received. Overall, the reception has been very positive. Like you said, a lot of guests say that they feel that they're not in Atlanta when they step in and sit at the table or at a bar. And that's really nice to hear. Because like I said, we were just trying to create the place that we wanted. And it's nice that people like it and have responded well to it and keep coming back to see us again and again. Which is which has been really great. We've been very fortunate so far.
So you're saying Atlanta needed a books and wine store? That's what we needed? We always did. And you do have you have a community now you have a community of people who support you not only do you see guests from out of town, I know that when people stop in, it is on their list now to check it out. But you also have regulars and repeat customers, don't you?
Yeah, one of the most rewarding parts about working in hospitality are the people that you meet and the friendships that you're able to, in many times cultivate as a result we hung out with a couple last night that we that we never would have met otherwise. And but they're regulars, that Lucien that's how we got to know them. And now they're now they're good friends. So yeah, we'd get still tons of curiosity, people that pop their head in and books and wine, what's what's going on in here, you get the people that have been told to come here from from folks that live here. And they're from, they're visiting plenty of regular guests, and everybody in between. and now being open all day, which we just couldn't quite do for a while, we wanted to always be open all day. But when we opened initially, we were really short and just couldn't do it that when you came back from summer break in July, and we're able to remain open all day, it's been great. It's been a really positive change. And we're able to take care of people from 1130 to 10. Now, which is which is perfect this the space that we think should be open all day. And I'm I'm really pleased that we're able to do that. Now.
I like that you said people come in with a curiosity. Even people that have never been in even now if they're just walking by and you are open all day, people can pop in, and they might think it's a bookstore at first, or you have people that think it's just for a glass of wine, and they're gonna be delighted to find both inside. So I like this a lot. I do feel like it's a community spot. I've even taken my mom there. So I took my mom from out of town to come over that I needed to have my mom see this beautiful place. But I am a repeat customer because I make a reservation with a group of friends every time a new wine list releases. And it's such a fun concept because I remember even sitting at the bar one time, and you got to give me a little sneak peek of the not yet released next, next one list that you were working on in PDF form. So walk me through this process because releasing it, it's about every two months, it sounds like, you're designing a new wine list. What's that process like for you?
It was a good year of kind of sorting it out how we wanted to organize it, lay it out the physical size was extremely important to me. We wanted it so that every single person at the table could have one in their hands. As you know, the vast, vast majority of the time you go to a restaurant and sit down. There's one wine lists. It's usually kind of unwieldy and big and it's usually handed to the oldest man at the table. And we wanted to get away from that. So that if there's four people at the table, all four people have at their hands. You can flip through it. You can kind of have a conversation. Talk about the wines that you're looking at together as opposed to passing it around. You know, here you look you look at this And now it's your turn, what do you think we ought to get and then next thing, you know, 30 minutes have gone by, and there's still no wine on the table. So first off the physical size was was really important, I would say just how it's organized was what took a long time to suss out, it was going to be the the largest, most expensive wine program I'd ever attempted. And when you have over 400 selections, it's overwhelming for a sizable percentage of the population. Right? Why is confusing as it is, you throw a lot in there and it's it can be it can be a lot to absorb. So it was critical that the way it was designed and organized was approachable and easy to navigate. So we decided that a lot of people they quote unquote shop for wine based on grapes that they know and already like. So we decided to go that route and organize the sections by grape and then by pairs when it was sort of natural fits together. So Riesling and Gruner Veltliner, Chenin Blanc and Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Noir and Gamay, Nebbiolo and Sangiovese and so this allows you to, if you want to come in, and you're just like, I just want a bottle of Chablis, you're able to quickly get there without having to spend a lot of time trying to find them mixed into a section of French whites, for instance. And I also didn't want to categorize things by flavor profile or, or, or add tasting notes, I find those to be subjective. And I truly believe that no wine tastes this exact same for any two people, everyone's palates different. So I may believe that a certain wine tastes a certain way, and you may perceive it a completely different way. So I think that those can add more confusion than they can be helpful at times. And then with, like you said, the months Yes, we print every two months. So there's always you know, on average, there's 50, or 60, changes within the the bottle selections. And then the entire selection of wines by the glass changes, which is usually around 16 things. And that kind of allows us to draw a line underneath one set of wines, we say goodbye. And then we start a new and part of that was just getting together with our team. So that when we meet as a group, we taste through an entire new set of buy the glass, this is what we're preparing for the next two months, we've all been to a restaurant and asked, Hey, I was thinking about a glass of Chardonnay, how is that? I'm not sure I haven't had it infuriating. It was like one of those, we want to make sure that that situation never comes up. Where we have someone in the front of house a guest asked about a wine. I'm not sure I'm I haven't tasted it. So we avoid that by tasting through everything as a complete team every two months. And then the next day, it goes live. And we when we roll it out,
everyone has freshly tasted it, it's top of mind. It's the focus for the next two months to share these by the glass wines, which are always very interesting. They're very intriguing. So you're almost taking people just a little outside of maybe a comfort zone and giving them something that not as familiar but it's always attached to something that maybe is familiar. That's how I feel you're by the glass list is
it's a mix. There's always a Chardonnay. There's always a Pinot Noir. Right, most often there's a Sauvignon Blanc, most often there's a Cabernet Sauvignon or something in that in that space. And then we'll throw Yes, we will throw some variety in there. We'll throw you right now there's a dry Furmint from Hungary. The next list has Vermentino I think, I wish I had it in front of me, I should have done that. There's treasure dura or, you know, there's things that are, we did a Rebola from Greece a couple of months ago. And if I was to sum up kind of what we do in a nutshell, if you're a language you like, and you never want to try anything else, and you know, this is probably not your comfort zone. But if you're someone that's naturally curious, loves trying new things. We haven't even touched on the books yet, but in loves art and design and things like that, then we've got it here for you in spades.
Oh, so cool. And you have this ever changing wine list. And now you even have it matched up with some kind of iconic staple items on the food menu too. Which is really neat because I see the same dish pictured a lot online because I know people are like, Oh, I'm finally having the omelet with the caviar on it like that is a staple iconic item. Now, did you ever expect people to come in for the food? Does that happen very often if they come in just for a dish.
I'm happy when people come in regardless of what brought them to us. I'm happy either way. Maybe if they were standing outside and saw books and they put their head in because they saw that because they're in the books and they wanted to check us out. I'm happy if they saw the omelet on Instagram and can come in and try it and they think it's the best omelet we've ever had. I'm happy with that. The omelet when Katie and I were imagining what the menu would be here, a perfectly done soft French omelet with caviar was the first thing that we had on the menu. It just felt like a perfect fit for what we were trying to put together. It's really elegant. And when it's done well, it's magical. And it happens over and over again, when someone says, you know, everyone talks about the omelette, but it's eggs. I'm here for the first time. Do I really want that? Yes, you do. Later, you know, 20 minutes later, there's like, Thank you for making sure that I did that I, I would have been sorry, if I didn't.
And I'm the person over here telling everybody to always order the fries. So while someone's ordering the omelet, I'm saying you can't miss the fries. And I'm always so excited about the ever changing dipping sauce that goes with the
and there's plenty of champagne available. So if you want that classic pairing, we've got you covered.
I have done that. And I will highly, highly suggest that to people when they come in. It's so fun to see people get excited to try these items and to share it with people. But you also have a community, not just your guests, you have a community now of your distributors here in Georgia, your wine industry partners. are they learning now what you like to carry? They're bringing in stuff to you I'm guessing that is perfect in their world for Lucian's menu is that is that what's happening?
It's a mix. I'm fortunate that I've been buying wine professionally in Atlanta for over 15 years at this point. And many of the people that I was buying from 15 years ago, when I had no idea what I was doing, I'm still buying from and many of these people are close friends. So yes, I have people that absolutely know my palate know the kinds of wines that I'm looking for know the quantities that I'm probably going to need and show up with us some we're just getting some newer companies in Atlanta that have launched, I was a part of Rive Gauche. And that was great. Bon Vin is another one that launched within the last few years. And this is exciting, because anytime we get an infusion of new ones, and especially things that haven't been here that needed to be here, that's exciting for us, because there's still actually so much stuff that isn't available here yet. And so I keep hoping that more of these smaller companies keep opening, and we keep getting bit by bit, all the stuff that all stuff that we need.
I like it because you're keeping an eye on that from your industry partners, because I'll come in and I'll see the list and I'll say, you know, sometimes I want to sit there and read it for a good 10 minutes while I just because I like seeing what you guys have. But then there are other times where I go, Jordan, what are you excited about on this list? And you instantly tell me a producer, I've never heard of, a very small producer. So I know that you are keeping an eye on that of what's coming into the state and what makes you happy to put on the list. I look for that.
Totally. The number of times I'm reaching out if it goes the other way to where I'm saying hey, can you guys get this in? Can you guys bring this in? And there's there's a lot of examples of that of wines that are here kind of through my hassling it's a good way to put it. I don't know, wines that you're excited about. I mean a good example, we Katie and I were in New York in June, dining at a restaurant, I ordered a bottle and the somm came over and said, Where do you work? Because it was was it's one of those bottles that is relatively new ish. And people that work in wine are the only people that know about these. And so it's just as funny things like recognize each other. And it was like actually we're from Atlanta and he's like okay, well, I knew that you knew wine because of what you ordered. It's like, okay, right on, right on.
Oh, best compliment ever. When when the server complements your choice on the wine list, you know, you're doing something right. That's amazing. And you do have a background in traveling and trying these wines and working in wine. Does Katie have that excitement for wine too? Because you're working hand in hand together? How do you divide the operations these days? Are you the one picking the wine? Or is that always a joint decision?
She likes to say that she gets 10% of the list. And I get I don't think I've gotten 10% of the books. But we taste a lot together actually. And she has a great palette. We have a similar palate I would say and we we know what each other like. In terms of operations she likes to say that I have all the fun stuff and she has all the not fun stuff. My role in Lucian is obviously everything to do with beverage and service and the day to day in terms of the staff and making sure that service is executed perfectly. And Katie is a lot of the really important stuff that just you don't see all the back office stuff all of all the non fun stuff. She's absolutely 100% right about this- permits and licensing and on and on and on and on. So I try to include her in much of the wines stuff as I possibly can to make sure that she still gets that element of fun and runs the bookstore side of things as well. And there's a lot there, that's it's really good stuff, really exciting stuff. Often there are books on our shelves that are sold out nationwide, just hanging out things that are out of print, you can't get any more in New York or, or London or Chicago, DC, but we have them. And they're just here waiting for the right person
waiting for a new home, they're all looking to be adopted and taken from your shelves, that you work really, really hard to fill. And you do this very seamlessly as a team. I like the teamwork aspect between you and Katie. And I also really enjoy that you have such a particular way of focusing on service and on your customers. But that means that you're probably very particular about who comes on board to help you. Because you do have a team now. So how do you how do you find your people?
some come to us, we we started with some folks that we knew, of course, and, and we started with people that had zero experience whatsoever. And I love finding people like that I like people that you can tell are are bright, full of energy and want to learn. Those are the people that I love hiring, if you're setting your ways and you're not flexible, we're gonna have, you're gonna have an issue,
this is not the place for you. Okay.
Some of the people that have really blossomed, in their time at Lucian are the ones that had no experience whatsoever walking in the door. And so that's really rewarding. And we're always on the lookout for good people. If you're a great person, you got a good attitude you want to learn, we'll find a place we will squeeze you in somehow it's worth the time and the effort.
That seems like a win win Jordan because you have a place where they can be supported. And if they have the excitement, you also are going to give the opportunity to work with some really, really great wines. And the knowledge is just going to soak in exponentially once you're in a place like what you've created.
Yes, I said, if you may not know that you're interested in wine yet. And that's totally, that's totally fine. People come to it in different ways. My family didn't drink at all, when I was growing up, I was never exposed to it. So I came to it only in my mid 20s. And you never know when that light switch is gonna go off for somebody if they taste this one particular thing all of a sudden, it's gonna make sense. They'll have that moment of clarity like I had and go, Wow, there really is something to this. Wow, this is really special. And then you're off and running. When you have those sorts of lightbulb moments with stuff. It's it's really, really rewarding and seeing them grow into it and get more competence is always great.
Did that light bulb moment happened for you in the restaurant world? Or you just around it and the curiosity spiked?
Yes. I mean, my my light bulb wine was a bottle of champagne. It was a 1988 bottle of Veuve La Grand Dame Brut Rose that was the one that did it was the light bulb mine because Okay, all right. There's something to this whole thing.
Yeah ok, I see you tell me more.
And like I said, we have when we do these structured classes every two months, where we taste through everything. You notice the confidence starting to come through more questions, when they're asking more questions, you know that they're starting to really take an interest and get into it. And we've got a great group right now I couldn't be happier.
You have a good group on board, always learning with you. And you also are doing that for your guests that come in. You might be the light bulb wine moment for somebody now that comes in and has a wine off your list. You're creating these access points for people right in the heart of Atlanta. You've hosted several pop up dinners now you've done collaborations with people, you're featuring certain wines I loved coming in it was oh gosh, a few months ago, but it was when former podcast guest Alice Anderson was in town and you did a BTG wine list takeover all of her wines were available by the glass like that was such a great concept. Will you be filling your calendar with events coming in the fall?
Yeah, I think that there will certainly be some more things that will get announced in the coming weeks for this fall. Fall, as you know, it can be a little bit tricky because of harvests and you never know the the calendars of the lovely folks. But when we have the opportunity to work with someone whose wines we really, really love, really treasure, we will jump at the opportunity to host something I think our space is well suited to it. It's the right size. We did several dinners in the spring that went very well that everyone was very excited about. And I think we'll continue to do it
Such a great highlight and creates a whole different type of memory for people to see it featured in that way and you do have this space. It really does help create this memorable experience with those wines, which is amazing. And you do see people from all over. So if anyone asks, How are you describing the Atlanta wine community these days? We needed a wine bar. So there's that. So what are you telling people about Atlanta and their interest in wine?
Gosh, I think currently in Atlanta, I think we have a mixed bag. But I think it's, I think we're a sleeping giant. Really, if we go back to 2006-7-8, when the craft cocktail boom really went off in Atlanta, I really feel that the ripple effects of that are still being felt in the city. I was firsthand for this because I was at Holeman and Finch from 2008 to 2012. So I was witnessing this happen in real time. And where it was, the epicenter of the whole thing was right down the road. A lot of great came out of this because we have some extremely talented people when it comes to spirits and cocktails in the city. And truly some some places that produce world class stuff that I would put up against any other city in terms of cocktails, the trade off, I feel is that in a lot of restaurants, there was a period where so much emphasis was going towards craft cocktails and spirits in that time that there was a de emphasis on wine programs and quality, I think went down a bit overall. And so I think we're still kind of recycling and regaining momentum back towards wine a bit. It also happened at a time when the overall dining scene have drifted very casual. And a lot of people associate wine with finer dining and less so with with a casual setting, even though you and I know that's that's absurd. But it just got caught up a little bit. So I think there's a lot of talented people here, there's never been a better time to be drinking wine overall, not just in Atlanta, we have access to phenomenal stuff from all over the world. And I think the more that young people get energized about wine, keep discovering the caliber of what you see in Atlanta will continue to improve. We talked about distributors, and they're a big part of this actually, like continuing to bring in new stuff, bring in producers that aren't here yet. Keep giving us infusions of new products to work with, to introduce to people to get them excited about it. So overall, it's a great team, it's Atlanta keeps growing, talented people are going to continue to arrive, grow. And I think you'll see the overall picture the wine scene in Atlanta as far as as restaurants go continue to get better and better.
You just got me even more excited. I didn't even know I could get more excited about the coming year for Atlanta wine because I do feel that energy, Jordan, I feel like we're growing. I feel like there's a lot of momentum from the people here. So what are you looking forward to the most, let's say, by the end of 2023, what makes you get up and go to work every day that you want to accomplish?
Gosh, I mean, that's there's the micro side of that, which is part of the reason that for certain people hospitality is in your blood is making people happy, creating that experience for them, introducing them to something that they didn't know existed and watching their eyes light up, those moments are extremely rewarding. And why you do this, why people do this, why people leave miss it and come back to it, which happens often. So I think, you know, in the very small sense, it's continuing to do what we're doing, which is just trying to make people happy. Every every day and every night, you have to recognize that people are coming to see you because they've heard something good about you mostly, and they want to see what you're about. And they're looking for something special. And that's what we try to create. It's also just nurturing the talent that we have here, particularly the younger folks that we have on on our team and giving them the tools that they need to succeed and grow and hope that when they leave, they're better prepared for whatever their next step is, we would love for everybody to stay with us forever, but they can't. And we recognize that. But our hope is always that when they leave, they're much better than they were when they arrived and that they're an asset wherever they go next. I think. I mean, this is a this is a big topic. But I do think that the Michelin Guide coming to Atlanta could have a profound effect on on the wine scene in the city. My one hope, in terms of looking forward to this is a little bit further down the line, probably more 2024. But I hope that that happening, restaurants and restaurant tours will reinvest more in their wine programs as both the selections that they're offering and in employing wine professionals in their restaurants so that the overall quality improves. I hope that that's a byproduct of the guide coming.
I love that you brought this up and it is a humongo topic and I realized that this is the first interview I've done since that announcement and you're kind of the perfect person to ask for the reaction to it and you didn't even know he didn't even I didn't even prompt you for that like this is on everybody's mind. It's kind of a could go this way could go the other way. I think people have a lot of questions. Overall I'm hopeful and you just one of the reasons why I'm hopeful is that knowledge base and the investment in the wind professional in The restaurant space. So I'm gonna hang on to the hopefulness of a good outcome until I'm proven otherwise, I guess that's that's where I'm at right now
every, every other guest that comes in is asking about it or talking about it, nobody knows what to expect, no one knows what's gonna happen, we can make guesses, but who knows. But I do have hope that as a result is you see focus drift backwards wine a bit and, and that you see an investment back in taking wine programs really seriously in restaurants and making them grow. And it doesn't have to be huge. I mean, some of the some of what I think are some of the better programs in the city or some of the smaller ones that no one says you have to have 400 500 1000 bottles to be good wine list. That's That's absurd. The the time that I was at Cakes and Ale, I was there for seven years, and when I first got in, I was just gangbusters, Billy kind of gave me carte blanche, Billy Allen, the chef and owner gave me carte blanche to kind of grow the program, my goal was to elevate it to the level of his food. That's, that's what I sought to do. And so I immediately doubled what we were doing. And he let me do this, which is cool. And the last couple years, or two or three years prior to the restaurant closing in 2018, I cut it in half, and cut it down to I want to say 90 bottles. And actually that time, those last couple of years where I cut it small were when I thought the list was at its best. And I was most excited about it in that time. So yes, at Lucian, you know, we have well over 400. And part of that is because there's a lot of producers on the list that we really love and want to celebrate their wines. And so sometimes there's three, four or five selections from a certain producer. But at the opposite end, you can have a lot of fun with truly a great selection of that's a quarter that size. And I love seeing small wine lists that are really tight and really good. Those are exciting and focused
and so intentional. When you have limited space, you know, somebody agonized over what was filling that space almost even more.
Exactly. When you when someone when there's a really, really tight, wine list, you know that that person knows their stuff and has a good palate, because yeah, when you have limited space, you've got to make hard choices.
Well now I'm really glad that I already have a reservation for this next list. It is very cool. I like to come see you know, what is something that fills a space that you really were intentional about people trying. So this is a really good place to be and building that excitement for the next year. I know that you spend a lot of your time at Lucian and thinking about wine and working with wine. But when you're not there, what are you up to do you have any other hobbies that take you outside of wine?
Gosh, when we travel if you catch us in another city, where we're probably in a museum or at a restaurant or in a bookstore, those are the three places that you'll catch us. If you catch us in any city, that's where you're most likely to see us because our brains never stopped working. We're always looking for a great new book, an idea for a new dish or a new producer that we haven't come across before. So we're always at it. Aside from that we live just down the street from the restaurant. It's great. We have three adorable little pets and I love them very much and we enjoy just hanging out and a little bit of time away from the restaurant every every now and again because the days go quickly and the months go by and I will say that structuring the wine list as we do at Lucian where it's in two month increments it makes the year just fly by so quickly because we're essentially working two months ahead we're about to send September October to the printer and the BY the Glass selections for November December are already about a third of the way done so we're always working well ahead.
And I feel like the December November holiday time list has to be really fun to put together. I feel like that's gonna be a whole different energy on those by the glass wines.
Definitely definitely you you'll you'll see you'll definitely see a treat or two on November December some some some really special stuff will will be included for that for sure.
Well shoot I gotta make a reservation for that. I also really appreciate that when I say what do you do with your time now I know you're not spending it in traffic. If you live that close, you are not wasting any time my friend
if I was to give it's like having a short commute it's just a game changer. We lived in West Midtown and being close is just so valuable because you can you can run home for a minute you can get away in between lunch and dinner for just a little bit. Shut your eyes for 10 minutes, then reset for dinner and that's that's a great change.
So priceless and so unique here in Atlanta. So I love this for both of you. That's amazing. Well I am so honored to have you on the show. I love what you've built. I love what you guys are doing. I think it's something that the city wanted you knew that you you You knew that before we all did, you said, we're going to build this and you all will really enjoy it. So thank you for doing that. And for telling us a little bit of the background of the whole storyand the concept, what's the best way for people to connect with you and stay up to date about what's next and what's coming up on the calendar,
you can certainly follow us on Instagram @lucianbooksandwine, we have a newsletter that we release, usually monthly, you can subscribe to as well, you can certainly call us you can get in touch in a myriad of ways. There's, there's always something going on, when we post calendars and stuff, those are the best two places, though, I would say would be our Instagram and the email newsletter,
your Instagram is beautiful. I really feel like that brings people in, there must be someone really cool behind the scenes on the Instagram page, because the photos are always stunning.
That's Kaite and myself. That's the only two.
Like I said, some really cool people are behind the scenes. Well, thank you. It really does, because I think a lot of it is so visual, and the space has an energy. And as long as you are able to portray that through these public platforms, and people can get a taste of what they're going to have and what they're going to feel when they come in to have a glass of wine and pick out a book. It's so neat. I love what you guys are doing.
It was important to us that the space was beautiful. It had to feel warm, welcoming, and beautiful. And we only managed one in person meeting with our architects in design because of COVID. All of our other meetings for the space, were over zoom. So it's kind of a miracle that it turned out as well as it did because it was it was a tough situation, not being able to sit down around the table and hash things out, we would we would get a layout from them. And Katie, and I would take scissors and tape and cut out pieces of it, put it back together and take a picture of it and send it back and say can we can we move this here? Can we change this a little bit, a lot of back and forth like that, because we couldn't get all in a room together. That was the best we could do. So I'm really pleased and proud of of how the space turned out, given those those challenges.
Oh wow I appreciate it even more now because I know that it was that detailed. And it took that much effort to put the vision into reality. That's what happened? Well, congratulations, because something went right. But it looks amazing. And it does create an entire transformation - busy Atlanta street, you walk in, and now all you got to do is focus on the aesthetics and the wine in front of you. And I think that that is a wonderful thing to create for the city. So thank you both so much.
Thank you, thanks for coming in. I'm glad you like it. It's like I said towards the beginning, you just you cross your fingers that people are gonna like your work and like what you've done. And so far a lot of people do, which makes you feel really good. And that's another reason why you get out of bed in the morning just to keep doing it.
Well. Thank you. And I will see you very shortly. I will see you very soon for the next list and the next list after that. And the next list after that. I'll be back. Thank you so so much for your time and for your energy and for what you're doing for the city.
Thank you. I appreciate it. This was fun. I'm glad to come on. Thank you. Cheers.
Thanks for tuning in to the a cork in the road Podcast coming to you live from Atlanta, Georgia, and interviewing people who are changing the wine world in the southeast and beyond. can find more about a cork in the road at @acorkintheroad on Instagram and make sure to check us out on www.acorkintheroad.com See you soon guys Cheers.
