Care of Magical Shippers Podcast Episode 25 - Double Trouble: Frangelina vs Georgelina (Fred Weasley/Angelina Johnson, George Weasley/Angelina Johnson)

1:40AM Mar 28, 2022

Speakers:

Megs

Nathan

[Music]

Keywords:

fred

hums

angelina

george

feel

people

twins

harry

died

portrait

laughter

percy

episode

weasley

dating

fic

relationship

lost

ghost

happening

Hey there listener, fancy seeing you here. Look, sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode description for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this episode is rated R for Really Filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these ship.

You're on the canon ground, I'm up in crack ship space Let's start a shipping war, don't care if I get hate. Don't like my pairings, well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my OTP, I'll go down with this ship! I don't care, I ship it… I don't care, I ship it!

Welcome back to Care of Magical shippers! It's a Harry Potter ship culture podcast, and I am Megs.

And I am Nathan. [laugher]

[laughing] I feel like we say this every single time for the past, like, five episodes. We haven't seen each other in a really long time, so we're probably going to be real weird. [laugher]

Yeah.

Like over the holidays, we had to keep pushing things out and then just, like, being sick and tired and, like, it just... It just... We're finally like, okay, we're still kind of sick and tired but we're gonna do this anyway.

Yeah, I... So, I got COVID. And I'm still coughing. So if you hear, like, phlegm based interruptions during this episode, that's why. And then, Megs, you've been doing the work of about five people...

Yeah...

... All rolled into one.

Yeah.

So, Megs is... Megs is now just basically mostly sponge at this point.

[laugher] Yeah, with nothing absorbed. It's... It's a dry sponge like...

Mmm... Tasty...

There's a... Oh, gosh. Yeah, it's been... It's been really bad. But I'm sure it's like, hey is hopefully supposed to be temporary. It's supposed to be temporary. We'll see how that goes. And.. Yeah, but now I'm going to hopefully make myself feel better. We're going to talk about Harry Potter ships.

Yeah, let's do that.

Let's hang out with my best friend. So that'll be super fun.

That's a good time, that sounds like harmless fun. Let's do that. Yeah.

Yeah. So welcome. So welcome to us. Trying to make ourselves feel better and have a good time. And you're just here for the ride, I guess we could say that. We're just like, we feel like crap, and we're gonna try and not feel like crap, and you're just gonna listen to us to [laughing] whatever we can.

Yeah, welcome to us trying our best to be --

Yeah.

-- normal and human and --

Yeah. Oh! You know what it is? This is Care of the Magical Shippers. Like, this is, like, self care of the magical shippers.

[laugher] We're still -

Episode one of self care.

We're still sort of in dry dock, but I'm going through... just going through the motions of, like, being on the water. We haven't been out in a while. And the boat sort of, like, it is sailing, but we're in shallow waters.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Okay, so this week is going to be... We had mentioned it... I don't know. I don't know if we actually mentioned it, or if I cut it out, or we put it in - [laughter] If you haven't realized yet, we are at the end of the episode, we now have a little, like, blurb that we paid since we cannot decide whether to stick to what the heck we're planning to do next time. So instead we're just going to tell you after the episode is over for our own sanity as well as... I think it's... we think it's kind of funny, like, just so make sure that you wait for that if you don't know that that's a thing we do now.

Yes, so just stick around to the end of the episode to actually find out what we're doing next time 'cause we don't know. I mean... I'm gonna quote to you directly from the... I think it's definitely Hallows Part One where... uh... Harry says... When have any of our plans ever actually worked? We plan, we get there, all hell breaks loose.

[giggle]

That's basically -

Yeah...

ethos for this part now is that we... we have a rough idea, we work towards that goal. And then invariably what happens is, as we approach it, we go yeah, I don't want to do that. Let's do something else instead.

Yeah, just not... not feeling it, which is like, that's fine. That's reasonable. We're not, we're not gonna always feel it. There's too many ships out there, we know... we... there's... there's so many, there's just so many ships. So... so now this time we're gonna be doing it's actually kind of a combo ship. We had discussed doing before and then we got distracted and did obviously a million different other things like we do, we're going to be talking about Frangelina. So Fred Weasley/Angelina, and then that transition to George/Angelina. So we have Fred/Angelina and George/Angelina and we're gonna talk about both of them because there's a lot of ways to look at how, you know, whatever how these things happened. Like, I know, I -

Shifty ways for Frangelina.

[laughter] It's fun, because I have my thoughts on, like, how I feel about that. And then it's been fun. Other people talking about their perspectives, or, like, there's just... It's really a complex thing. There's a lot of gray areas with this thing. So it'll be fun to kind of dive into a bunch of different stuff and just see how... We'll see what happens. We'll just see what happens. [laughter]

It feels... It feels meaty. It feels multifaceted. It's layered. I took a big Shepherd's Pie. Can't wait to get stuck in.

[laughter] So... okay, so... I know how I feel. Do you have feelings about, like, these two pairings? Like -

Of course I have feelings.

[laughter]

Of course I do, it's me.

I'm just thinking of the Jeddy episode... We're, like, going and, like, I know nothing. I'm just going to sit here and listen to you.

Oh, yeah, we're a lot... That's different, 'cause that's Next Gen. And that's what... talking Scorbus... I really know -

Nothing.

But girl. And... These are characters that I know and have a lot of time for. And I do have feelings. Now, a lot of my main feelings about why this gets complicated are to do with Fred and whether or not you... are one of those people that adheres to the canon school of thought that it works like, Oh, yeah, Fred dies, or... whether you're one of those people that is like -

[hums]

doesn't want Fred to die. And so he never does.

Right. That's true.

And...

Yeah.

And so a lot of my feelings about the different permutations to do with this come from whether or not Fred dies, essentially. And... then of course, I have feelings about... uhm... Fred and George being trapped like a step essentially, extensions of one entity because -

Right.

there's a comic relief and they are the twins in it

Right. They're twins. They're always together, they're playing off of each other, like, the thought of one without the other is really difficult to comprehend and I feel like that's what hit home so hard for probably 99.9% of people who read the books, like, off of canon when Fred was taken from us. It was like all, like, to... throw a table, like, of all the people that you had to take away was that was just so... I am definitely... When it comes to the fanfiction, like, I've accepted that that is canon, obviously. But, as far as fanfiction goes, anytime we can make it slip Fred is not dead. His choice, like, that's... That's just -

Yeah

ideal situation. But... uhm... But yeah, for me, the way that I thought before talking to, like, a bunch of other people and getting some other points of view, I always thought it was weird. Like I was... I was seeing it from the perspective of Oh my gosh, does Angelina not know the difference between these two? Like, does... does

[hums]

she sees them as... As we said, like that one entity? So she goes to the ball, like we don't have any... We don't have any canon evidence that they dated, though, like, like, you would think that it's like, okay, she went to the ball with Fred. However, she could have gone to the ball with Fred as a friend. So it's just like, Oh, you need a date. So, I mean, you look at, like, Harry and, you know, poverty or whatever, they weren't dating, like it was just kind of, like, you invited someone to go with you. Not everyone, not all your dates or, like, your girlfriends, you know -

Sure.

what I mean? And... so if you're going from the aspect of, like, okay, they were dating, then potentially how long were they dating through school? And...how did... I mean, even the thought of, like, the twins dating, like that would mean potentially them spending time apart, which is just weird to think about too. Like, okay, so then Fred, once in a while, will go off and have his dates with Angelina. And then George is just sitting around twiddling his thumbs like, Now what the hell do I do with my time? So it's just -

Maybe George is dating somebody as well?

Yeah, yeah.

Maybe they go on double dates. Who knows?

Oh my gosh. Yep. No, that's very... That's true. Like, it's, like, maybe he's dating Katie or whatever. Like, it's just... They have fun talking Quidditch or something like that. But, but if they were just friends, like, who knows me, like, what if she went with both of them? Like, they're just like, hey, we're just gonna go with our friend Angelina, we're all gonna just dance and have a good time. And it was just, like -

Yeah

super casual... uhm... Because, of course, if you're looking at the aspect of like, okay, it's weird, because say she felt, like, say she had a strong romantic connection with Fred. And could have been an instance like Cho and Cedric where they had been together. And then Fred died, and she lost her partner, you know what I mean? So then -

[hums]

one instance would be... Then, okay, is she going to, like, Plan B by going to George, but another aspect is like, he lost Fred too, you know what I mean? So... people talk about how if that was someone that she cared about, and lost, obviously, she's still going to care about George because, potentially, he's her boyfriend's brother, you know, brother and closest friend, and she's gonna know him really well, and I could see them, you know, coming together. It's another instance of... Kind of, like, when we talked about in the Linny episode of how Luna was able to understand Ginny's pain of losing Fred, because she had lost her mother or whatever. Like, it would be the same instance of, like, George would want to be there for her, you know? Like, he wouldn't -

Of course!

abandon her because he would know either a) how special she was to her... His, you know, his brother. And that could over time and healing... Could end up growing into something, like, it just... It makes me think of... Of course, it's different because it ends up blowing, blowing up in the face. I don't know if you ever saw the movie, Pearl Harbor.

Mmm... I feel like it's one of those ones I've seen. But a... very in bits.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So ultimately, what happens is... The...Like, one of the either, like, pilots or things like that... There's two best friends and they're in the army or whatever, I totally know, military stuff. So [laughter] I'm gonna, whatever, they are army, navy people... They're... They're in the military. That's all I know. And the one has a, like, Beyonce, like Beyonce. They've been together whatever a long time. He supposedly dies, like, no, like, he goes missing, and they assume that he died. I mean, it's been like months, you know, like a long, long, long time of him being gone. So of course, his best friend and his fiancee came and grew together and ultimately fell in love. Because of coming out of that loss and pain, and being there for each other. And then surprise, [laughter] he's actually alive. So then -

Of course he is.

He comes back, and she's in love with his best friend. And now it's all confusing, because she's like, Well, I kind of, like, accepted your death. And [laughter] now you're here [laughter]. Oh, no, I pictured, like, what if, like, Fred coming back: "Surprise! I'm not dead." And turns like, she's, like, making out with George on the couch or something [laughter]. So that's what I think of is like, you know, it's not... You couldn't see it as a portrayal, I see it as something as like a healthy, it's... You're comforting one another, it's a healthy progression of moving forward. And I could see it as a way of them holding on to and loving and cherishing someone that they lost together. Like he is just gonna be there with them in their relationship, even though he's not physically there.

Of course.

And then they... They name their son, Fred, like, obviously, like whether it could be more for George, but I feel like Angelina is going to regardless of them dating and being friends, like they have been on the Quidditch team for... Together for potentially, you know, years, several years. You spend a lot of time together at practices. They're in the same... I think they're in the same... Year? I don't know. I don't know for a fact. But you're gonna be really good friends with your teammates. Like, it's just,

Of course.

It's... It's not like it was just a random other Gryffindor person that it's just like, Oh, that was... I don't even know. Like, I think, like Harry and Parvati it's... Like, you're like, they... They're... Their circles don't... Cross, like, he invited her because they're like, Who do I... Who do I ask to the ball -

Yeah, that was very much what with the Burrow situation -

You know what I mean? Yeah, I know and poor Parvati and Padma like, they're beautiful. I know that they're beautiful. Like, what are they doing without, you know, dates? Like, I've just -

I know, I know. Well, that's a whole other kettle of fish -

I know!

We will get into in another episode.

In another episode! But it's... So, instances I just... I... I thought it was weird. Initially, I thought it was super weird that she would be like, Okay, I'm into Fred and then now being into George, I see them as one person. But as I take a step back and really think about it, it's like, Okay, I could see them whether it was a friendship, whether it was romantic, then growing together and healing together and then having a really strong bond and connection post war because of that. So I mean, I could definitely see is like, Fred was definitely a... A... I definitely 100% believe that Fred is a reason why they got together and not just the fact that it's like, Oh, George reminds her of Fred. Like, 'cause -

Yeah.

It's just, he's going to be different. Like, I even think about, like, when I think of the, the twins, Fred seems like he's, he's the more like, playful one. Like, they're both funny, but I feel like when it comes down to when they talk about, like, the business, like, George is the one who's like, Okay, we got to, you know, handle the... He's more like, the money and numbers guy. And then Fred's like, Here's all the wild and crazy things that we can do.

Yeah.

And so that... It's like, they're gonna have differences. Like... they're, even though like you said, in the books, like, we only see them with their like, punch, you know, punchy one liners or, or goofs or just being really silly. And... But I, you know, that once you know them that there's going to be, you know, some differences there. And, but... But yeah, I mean, I, I definitely think that they probably have a very strong, like... George and Angelina have a very strong relationship, because I just, they, they need each other, I just feel like need each other.

Yeah, it's gonna be intense. Yeah, it has to be, if we're going with the proviso that Fred has died, that

Yeah.

Relationship really is stoked in the fire, like you said, of grief. And of coming through the war together. And, like you say, their relationship has been galvanized by being on the same Quidditch team.

Right.

So they are, if you consider that psychologically, that's gonna be a time for both of them that they're really looking forward to.

Yeah.

Because, you know, particularly Fred and George themselves, whenever very academically focused, they were certainly gifted, we know that Flitwick keeps a part of their swamp -

[hums]

whenever he vanishes, everything else, but he keeps a little part of the swamp. So we know that had they chosen to be academically minded, they could have been brilliant there as well.

[hums]

But part of their excellence was definitely on the Quidditch pitch. And so for all three of them, that has to be a time that they're really looking forward to. So you've already got this sort of positive, up energy, and then you form really strong friendships, and get to know each other on a sort of a... An instinctual level.

[hums]

Because especially where it's team play, you have to be able to intuit what your other players are doing, you have -

[hums]

to get to a stage where you know, wordlessly what's happening on the pitch. So you coordinate, and then based off of that, like, Fred and George are very humor forward.

[hums]

So I can imagine that there's a lot of in jokes going on between them all.

Oh, for sure.

And you know, and it's so easy to see that romance, like naturally blossoms -

Yeah.

because of that, because -

Yeah.

it's a very intense sort of furnace and environment for them all to begin. And this is, like, I'm going to have to talk about this, even though it's a bit of a complicated issue -

[laughter]

because... So bear with me, listeners, because it might seem like I'm going on a tangent, but I swear, I'm going somewhere for a reason.

Take a drink, have some water, buckle up. We're ready. Let's do. [laughter] Okay.

So... Whether or not you think Fred died for a good reason, or whether you think Fred died for, just for the purpose of the narrative -

[hums]

defines a lot of how you see the subsequent relationship with Angelina, I think, because if you see Fred's death as perfunctory, as just sort of, like paying lip service to the fact that certain people have to die in war -

Right.

and we're just, you know, going to be dealing with death as a necessary part of conflict.

Yeah. And if people we know, don't die, then obviously it's like, you know, then it's not going to be impactful. You know, what I mean? Like, I don't think it's gonna hit home as much as it is when we... When we know a name, you know?

Right, of course -

Yeah.

of course. But there's... There's, there's an argument that says as well, that when somebody like Lupin dies, you can sort of see it because there's been an arc developing there. And even though it's tragic that he dies, given that, you know, we've survived by Teddy, that,

[hums]

that there's a point and a purpose to that death. And I get that there are people that will argue and say, Well, some death is senseless, you know, there are...The... People that are taken away from us very quickly -

[hums]

who don't have a lot of personal story that do just die. And maybe it was the author's intention to... Explore that side of mortality. And

[hums]

I can, I can see it. But I also think a lot of the deaths, a lot of the 50 that do die, are really just sort of, in my opinion, thrown together for the shocking or value of them dying, which -

Yeah.

is why I think, like, bringing Fred back is different to me than bringing somebody like Sirius back who, you know, that death had a point not just to the broader story, but to that... The end of that whole book, whereas Fred's death is just like, Oh, yeah, Fred's dead now as well.

Right. Right. It was, it was just like, and then he was smiling and unseeing and you're just like, Oh, my God, my entire soul. Just just, I don't even know, like it just... Yeah, no, I completely agree.

Exactly. So I don't think that Fred's death was as justified as those -

[hums]

arguments might suggest that it is.

Yeah.

Personally, that's just my view. And I think... I'm with you, though, I don't think Fred and Angelina were heavily romantically involved -

Yeah.

ahead of time, which then gives, which then gives George and Angelina, uh, enough scope to develop -

[hums]

romantic feelings later on. But I definitely think because Fred and George have such a close relationship. Regardless, they're both going to be close to -

[hums]

whoever -

[hums]

they mutually end up dating anyway.

Right.

There's always going to be this very, uh, very intense togetherness -

[hums]

with... With whoever it happens to be.

Right.

Now, the fact that it's Angelina is interesting, again, because I said to you, before we started recording, my brain confuses Angelina with Alicia, because they're both A names, and they're both on the Quidditch team. And my brain did a thing where it sort of sandwiched them together. And I -

[hums]

was like, Wait, which... Who's... Who's who here.

[laughter]

[laughter] But as you correctly pointed out to me -

Yeah.

Angelina is the Quidditch captain, who is very driven, she's very following on from the Oliver Wood legacy.

[hums]

So I can see her particularly pushing for a relationship with George, because she seems determined to salvage some good from the situation -

[hums]

to not let either of them be mired in the grief of losing Fred -

[hums]

if he dies. But then also, I'm convinced that, however that relationship resolves itself, even if Fred is alive, and... Not involved in the romantic side of the relationship, but still in that close circle, I can still see it being, you know, like Angelina being very, uh, putting her best foot forward, and making sure that they're all looked after, in that way, 'cause -

[hums]

she seems very, you know, we see her in this Captain like capacity. But it also belies a sort of... A tendency to want to organize outside of that -

[hums]

and make sure everybody's okay. And you know, Fred and George are essentially just there for Comic Relief, at least in terms of common narrative. So we think they need a sort of a more sensible stabilizing influence from the outside of both of them to be like, Okay, yeah, but what's actually going to be happening with regards to our own futures? You know, it's all it's -

[hums]

all fine to be laughing and joking and, and being silly, but also, you know, we're not going to be school kids forever.

[hums]

And it's, it's fascinating to me to be like, asking questions about how that works. Like, I always love post Hogwarts, I have a thing for it, because I am particularly keen on seeing characters that don't just stay at school age.

[hums]

And I'm interested in seeing Fred and George grow up and grow around somebody like Angelina, and how that love develops.

[hums] So, like, I was thinking of... because I'm pretty sure that they're in the same year because Angelina is Quidditch Captain over the fifth book because they didn't have Quidditch during the fourth book because of the Triwizard Tournament.

Yeah.

So we didn't know who it would have been at that time. And then it's Harry in the sixth book. And the twins leave before there any WT's but it technically was there last year.

I think yeah, was that last year.

Yeah. So I think that they were in the same year so I think of like, how would they still be in contact? Like I think of especially fanfiction is really big on like, what is it like Gryffindor or like the Gryffindor piss up or something like that, like people getting together at the pub every so often and just like seeing your like dor-, you know, your... Your buddies because like a lot of times when it comes to, like, as far as the size that we know of Hogwarts, like it's you, and only a couple other people in your year in your house, like Hermione as far as we know, it's Hermione, Lavender and Parvati, like we only know that it's those three in her year. And then obviously, we have Ron, Harry, Neville Dean, and Seamus, let's five. So that's only so many people, like it'd be easy to get them all together, even if they brought their partners or whatever, just to like -

[hums]

stay connected. So I feel like that could be something that especially the twins would, like, either put something together or even like host something at the store or things like that, like, I feel like it... Or even just quit like a Quidditch thing, like inviting all the Quidditch people to, like, come and hang out and things like that. So I feel like they could... There's a lot of opportunities and reasons why you would stay really close to... Your schoolmates in comparison to, like, that's not really a thing for...I don't know, for, like for, you know, my experience, just because it's like... Well, I mean, I had 100 people in my, you know, graduating class -

Yeah.

Whatever, versus seven or what-, you know, whatever. So it's like, obviously, I'm -

Yeah.

not gonna hanging out with these hundreds of people all the time. But I... I... That's, that's a, that's a common theme that I see with post war stories is, if, you know, like, all the Slytherins get together, or all the Gryffindors get together, and it's like, once a month or whatever, like it's just a something that they do. And... I could see that being the case for their year in school or, or doing the Quidditch... Whatever, and hey, the, what if they were on like, did some sort of like... Local, even though the twins obviously have their business, they loved Quidditch. Who's to say they don't, aren't on, like, a club team or, like, something like that. And maybe we -

Oh, yeah, that have to be like -

Yeah, like, they had to be playing.

Yeah, they had to be, like, amateur leagues or something, yeah.

Doing something casual, because obviously, they can't be, like, professional Quidditch players and -

[laughter]

business owners like that would be insane. Like, I mean, if anyone was going to attempt such thing, it'd be the twins. But [laughter]

[laughter]

But, but it's... It's, it's thinking about, like, how would they stay in touch? And those are ways that I feel like could be the instance. But if he... You know, if we're saying like... Fred was, you know, to remain living, like, how would Angelina still fit in the narrative? That's how I see that being a possibility versus, like, you leave school and then sometimes you never see those people again, you know, because who knows where her home where she's from, from? Like, who knows where she's actually from, in comparison to like, obviously, when you're all at school together, like you're in the same place. And it's different -

Yeah.

like so. Yeah. But I mean, a lot of times, they're like, Yeah, we're gonna all go to the Hogshead and hang out. It's like, that's what we do. I mean, yeah, you can flow wherever or Apparate or whatnot. But yeah, it's -

It's having the excuse to come together.

Yeah.

And the need and the reason to all be around each other. And... You're right, you know, what is their impetus as adults to keep being around each other?

[hums]

I definitely see them having the equivalent of things like poker nights Weasleys Wizard Wheezes you know, there's some sort of like games going

on. Yes, game nights and they've got it all be like crazy game like you think of like exploding snap it's got to be something like that. Like he has they have the like telescope that punches you in the face like there's got to be some sort of dangerous but fun and silly games that they make and probably like you think of like they test on themselves, you know, then they always everyone is always like, you shouldn't just be testing on ourselves but it's like we don't want to you know, do that to other people. But maybe maybe they have a bunch of friends that are like dudes, if you have a noose new something like I want to be involved like he had they have like their group of friends that comes to help give input on new product. So maybe that's Have it to like, it's kind of like their their personal focus group, I guess you could say,

well, I we know the shop is popular. And I think the list of testers would be like the bill waiting list the, like a waiting list at least a year long. Like, if you're interested in testing a Weasley product, you know, put your name and contact details on this bit of parchment or whatever. And

in the fine print, it's like, we are not we're not responsible for any, you know, like maiming dismemberment or possibly.

Yeah. Yeah, so But No, that's true. Like Abby. Absolutely. Because especially like you think of like, young, like younger kids like, oh, yeah, it'd be so cool to, to get a chance to see something before you can, you know, buy it or whatever. But

yeah, and I have to believe that, especially as the wizarding world comes out of the shadow of the war, that people are going to be looking for something fun and something light and something that has a bit of an unapologetic upside. So of course, you would go to somewhere like Weasley was at Wiess. To get that, that. I mean, it's really, I mean, not to sound too much like a marketing textbook, but it's identifying that niche, and really playing to that need that community need that everyone has to be not thinking about? Death and really serious stuff all the time. You know, it's I mean, we can sort of see it ourselves. We know, we're all living through a pandemic at the moment, how nice will it be? How nice is it for us now, to visualize that point where none of this will be appropriate anymore? You know, none of none of these, you know, pandemic considerations will be on our minds. You know, I think that there's a certain amount of relief that comes from visualizing a time when, you know, you won't have to think about that. And I think it's very, very similar for people in this position coming out of the war. And just looking for that bit of fun that bit of, you know, walking yourself in the eye with a telescope that you didn't know that you need.

Yeah, so something I was thinking about in regards to like, the relationship among like, the three of them. So what if they, you know, we're really like the three of them were always really close in school. And then of course, the relationship transitions into postwar I could see it be coming an issue of like, may like this is kind of sad, but also not like of reaching a point where it's like, Okay, you two are my best friends and I have love for both of you, but I could never choose so we're just like, there's an unsaid like we're, it's never gonna happen because I couldn't do that, you know what I mean? So like, they, I could see there being like, underlying feelings among, like, the twins and her that never got acted on because she could never and would never do that to the other twin. You know what I mean? Like, because I could see that being, you know, cuz you see that sometimes with like, trio stuff. It's like, we think it's like, Oh, who's Hermione gonna pick or, you know, things? Like, I mean, obviously, the twins are different, because it's like, okay, they're the two their brothers and whatever. But I feel like if Harry had feelings for Hermione, and Hermione picked Iran, like, it would be really devastating. Like, they're like, brothers, you know what I mean? And, and speaking of Hermione, like I can see, just because we see Angelina in such like, a strong, intense, like, we think of Oliver wood as being like this, like, gotta win, gotta win versus, you know, so like, hype about Quidditch. And it's like, Angelina is like, she's obviously out to prove something like, she's like, Okay, I'm Quidditch captain. Whether it's because I'm a woman, or whatever, like, she takes no shit. Like, when Harry keeps getting detention, she's just like, Get your act together, Harry. Like, I cannot keep dealing with this. Go, go tell her to you know, change whatever times with Umbridge which, of course, you know, she absolutely won't do the woman is absolutely happy to make it so that Harry can't go to Quidditch practice or whatever. I think that she'd be the one to like, keep them in check. You know what I mean? Like they they're like, she would be the person holding the two balloons like they're just like reaching for the sky and doing like, the sky's the limit and she's like, Guys, guys, like, like, we got to be a little bit rational in this so I could see her being like someone like a like someone who is in the background that like supports and helps them with potentially the bit, the business or just in general life as someone to keep them grounded. because they are so such big personalities, they are such like so above everything like, like literally no limitations. They can't see any limitations. They're just like, it's just more and more and more Wilder, Wilder, Wilder. And, but But yeah, I mean either A, I could see them just either, it would be really sad if at an eventual point like either any of the three of them did meet an alternative partner, and then how that would affect like, potentially they're, like, just platonic, like just just deciding, it's like, Hey, this is just gonna be platonic forever, because there's just no way that it could be anything different. But then there's also like, there is the opportunity where it's like, she's the center of a poly dynamic. And she's with both of them. But the, you know, the twins aren't together. But I mean, I'm fine with whatever dynamic. But it's, you know, she could technically have, she could technically have them both like she could,

it's so yeah,

possible. Yes, it is. Yeah, I don't know that. That's something that I know you dwell on for any length of time. However. However, what you were saying about her being, having those boundaries that she wouldn't cross out of respect for either twin. I could see that happening. I also think, I mean, I think we've talked about this before, but I sort of feel like it's unrealistic to expect that your relationships going into adulthood will all be formed by connections you make at school, right. And, you know, just because you are very close to these people, at a certain point, doesn't mean that you're going to be that close for the rest of your life. And, you know, we've established that wizards live for a very long time. Yeah, we've killed so they look, there's an awful lot of years within which to meet people and do stuff. And, you know, we haven't even talked about Lee Jordan. But you know, that, like, Lee Jordan is definitely in their friendship group. And it's just as conceivable to me that one of the twins and with Lea Jordan, and one of the twins ends up with Angelina.

That's so true. I didn't even think about that. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Oh, gosh, okay, okay. Okay. No, I'm totally I'm totally here for this. That's, that's so great. Because yeah, cuz Lee. Okay. Okay, here's, here's my thoughts. Here's somebody that's okay. So either a is Georgian Lee, because George, like I kind of said before, is a little bit more of like, the, the reason why Fred and George work is because they're kind of like they're similar, but they're also complements. So I feel like Lee is also in the realm of Fred of being a little bit more ridiculous and silly. And he could complement George in that way. Whereas Fred and Angelina, like Angelina has the like, you know, strong foundation head on her shoulders and keeps Fred in check. So it's just like, they're kind of group of like balancing each other's strengths and strengths and weaknesses and things like that. And, and they're, and they're going to have, I'm sure that Angelina, and Leah obviously is involved in because there obviously is their best friend he does commentating for the matches and things like that. Like he has to be somewhat close to Angelina to like, they're all in the same year. So yeah, they def apps. Okay, so they're definitely all dating. And then they're, they're going on double dates. And that's just the cutest cutest thing. And I love that. I'm sorry, I didn't even think about Lee either. And I'm so sorry, Lee Jordan, my super bad. You were very important to the twins. I know. You.

See, I could see Lee Jordan giving commentary in the bedroom.

You've said this before, I can't remember what episode or why. But yeah,

I definitely think the potential there for fun is off the charts. And I know that whoever ends up with Leo is going to be all about it. Because whether it's Fred or George, yeah, they're, you know, they're very much yes. And people, you know, they never are ones to turn down a good idea. In fact, they'll always, you know, riff off of it, and expand on it and make it better. And I just feel like if they're going to be around people in the long term, they're at least going to want to be with people that can match them on that wacky creative level. And I feel like that is really important and integral to both of their characters, because, you know, they're individual characters. And I think it's important that we we speak about them individually, given that they're so often lumped together as twins, and they're not the same, that you know, they're not in person. So it is important that we treat them individually. But broadly speaking, they're both driven by humor. They're both driven by a need to not take themselves seriously. I love that energy of just constantly taking the piss out of life. Yeah. And I love that they that in either being together with Lee or being together with Angelina, that they'll get to appreciate that as well. I have to say that I don't go out of my way to look for Fred and George fanfic look, but now that I'm describing, yeah, now that I'm describing all of these different permutations to yeah, having this chart, I'm thinking, why haven't I looked for this before? Yeah. Because I definitely, I do want to read it. It does sound wholesome. And it does a little part of my soul does feel fulfilled. Talking about this for them. I mean, we know that I, as a human, just want everyone's good resolution. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel I feel like in terms of Fred and George, how that happens is they get together with someone that appreciates first and foremost, their sense of fun, right. And I could never see for instance, like one of the twins getting together with oh, now let's say for the sake of argument, like let's say Marcus Flint, like, like, it's theoretically possible. Is there? Yeah. While it would be interesting to read about, I don't see it being a long term thing, because Flint is named after Stoughton. I don't think that's an accident. And it might be interesting to read the equivalent of like, a one night stand or just a one off, but I don't see it being a long term thing. Whereas with somebody like Angelina, I could see that being an investment. A future. I'm not saying it's the future, but I'm saying I see a future there. I don't know what your feelings are about, like, if you see a definitive future for the twins, or if you'd rather, like keep the options open.

I don't know. I mean, ultimately, I think the most fun about when Fred lives is that you can go in any which direction we could pull in tons of different people for different reasons. And the only thing we have to go off of like, Oh, are we gonna keep George and Angelina together? And how does that affect the way that you know, Fred's? Future goes like, well, then hey, maybe ultimately, it was always supposed to be George and Angelina. And then it was Fred and Lee or, you know, something like that? Like, I don't know, I just. And I always was curious in regards to the two of them, as I remember them bringing up the possibility of buying zonk O's. So they would be in Diagon Alley and in hogs made? So would it be like the first time that either would they both? Would they each manage different ones? Would it be like the first time where they're kind of like working separately from each other? So it's like a step in the direction of like, figuring out separate lives while still sharing the same thing. So the opportunity there of like, making that shift from like, Hey, we're the goofy brothers that do all these things. But then it's like, okay, we're the we're the entrepreneurs, businessmen, adults that are ready to move forward in our our futures together, obviously, but as individuals and so I wonder how if if that got affected because of what happened to Fred or anything like that, we just Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. But it's funny you bring up Marcus and I'm like, Oh, of course, you can't date Fred because he's made for all of her. So it's just like this. He can't date anyone else because Marcus is supposed to be with Oliver wood. It's just like, that's just dumb. I mean, it's like Harry and Draco like they're just they're the conflict whatever. Although now I've been thinking about Marcus and Harry for whatever reason, and there's like, no fic out there and I'm really sad. I don't know it just came up. Okay, it just just happened and I can I just happen. I don't know I just like I'm really into Marcus simply. And it just I don't know why I pulled Harry in there but there wasn't really anything to

Oh, I wonder what we're gonna be covering in next episode

so anyway, oh yeah, Fred, Fred and George and stuff and things. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay, gears, I remembered something from a while back. So I read a story that was canon adjacent, like through, you know, like through the series of pretty much everything happening as it did but with different relationships happening. And when it reached the point of when Fred died, because of course, it's like Fred is, is talking to Percy like Percy shows up and Percy makes a joke. And then obviously Fred is killed. This person writes Percy being the one who was killed, which I which I, which the way I looked at it, I was like, Wow, this actually hits really hard to because it was him finally accepting he was wrong, and coming back in and trying to repair a relationship with his brothers and hat and shared a moment with Fred. And then for either of them to be lost, like in the author pretty much in the notes was just like, I couldn't tell Fred. I just couldn't do it. Like, I'm sorry, Percy, but I couldn't. But I still felt like it was really impactful in that way. So I feel like if the Weasley still lost someone, how would you know, that would probably still affect the two twins in a similar way. Like it just it'll be different, obviously be different than losing your twin. But it would still be, you know, pain and trauma and things there because as much as they teased the heck out of Percy and yeah, he was like, he was a shit for, you know, to for pretty much separating himself from his family, but he finally owned up to being wrong. And I just, I feel like that would really affect them to the extent of because maybe they were never able to fix the relationship. You know what I mean? Like, it was like, Oh, it was yeah, it was gonna be the beginning of the beginning of them repairing and creating something new moving forward, but it never got that chance, which is, you know, really is something also to think about, and in comparison of them just all the Weasleys living, like if a different Weasley died, how that would affect the twins, too, and how that would affect relationships, you know, going forward in that regard. And so yeah,

yeah. And I, I mean, I don't have a problem with a Weasley dying. It's not that I'm averse to a death in the family. Or that I feel like it wouldn't make narrative sense. I just have more of a problem with how the death happened. And how throw away it seemed like Yeah, even if you're, if you're if you're going to have it in an unexpected moment, that turns on a sixpence that's fine. But then have some breathing room to deal with the emotional after effect of that. We basically had a whole chapter for it when serious died. Why is Fred not as important? Why would Percy not be as important? You know, it's a prominent Weasley, we've seen them for seven books at that point, we've grown alongside them, why aren't they given the same level of maturity and depth? And, ultimately, you know, respect for their journeys. That's what I have an issue with. And I feel like that could have been done so much better. And I know, I can already hear the counter arguments happening. It's like people are going to be people are going to complain at me that it happens so quickly, because, you know, it's in the middle of a battle and those pacing to consider and you know, and everything else, but if you've ever been in a situation where something horrific happens, now, I have never, to my knowledge witnessed any sudden death directly. But if you've ever been in a situation where something happens, like it's happened for me, where time sort of slows down,

I was just gonna say that. Yeah, yeah. And I

feel like any serious consideration of that sort of Battlefield trauma, if we want to call it that has to take that into account. And I don't feel like it did. So I don't feel like when we talk about Fred dying, or Percy dying, or whoever it happens to be that we're given enough of a moment in the books to be like, Oh, wow, this is important. This is significant. And that, because, you know, Fred and George and Percy, are all quite big characters in the books, we're not dealing with the equivalent of a Justin Finch flatly a, you know, someone hovering in the background like a hammer rabbit. This is quite a prominent secondary character. And is the is, you know, what are we supposed to take from this that they didn't matter as much? Or because if it's Fred dying, it's only an agent of the comic relief dying, or if it's Percy dying? Oh, well, he was a dick anyway. So what does it mean? Right,

right, you know? Yeah. And I think and another issue that could be said about Fred dying is, well, we still have George, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, oh, it's just one half of something that's still there. Whereas like someone like Percy or Charlie or Bill, like, that's like, final like, it's like, you've lost that sibling in comparison to like, George reminds you of the person you lost. Not that. Not that, like Percy's personalities, or mannerisms or things like that couldn't be in any of the other siblings. But it's literally like, I look at George, and I see Fred and so therefore it, it either hurts like it's at that, oh, that's another thing of, of George feeling like he causes his family pain. Because they see Fred right. So that's, that's also I've read, where George has a really hard time, not only because he's lost his best friend and his twin and a big piece of him. But the fact that like, his mother can't even look at him. You know, like she cannot. She just cries, you know what I mean? So that has to be so hard. Like, how do you how do you move on from that, like, I just I, I it, it really, truly amazes me that George makes it through it. You know what I mean? I just feel like there's so many things that could just really reach a point for him where he's just like, why, like, why everything that I've put into to this point is like, I feel like he would need someone in his corner to help him. You know what I mean? Like, he wouldn't be able to get out of this alone. There's no way. And I feel like there'd be a lot of instances of of him feeling like he's doing harm to his family, because he looks like the person that they lost. And that's got to be awful. Like, that has to feel terrible.

Right? Right. Well, if we if we deal with this sort of dark and brooding George, how reasonable Do you think it could be that he ends up with somebody like pansy, who represents something darker, something of their a circle? That is would while he was still being, you know, naive and fun, loving wouldn't have been open to him. But who is available to him now? Because he would be a product of a lot more dark, emotive stuff that he needs to exercise and get out of himself? You know, is it is it feasible that he ends up with someone who is more of a reflection of that side of his nature of that he goes down a sort of a Snape ish trajectory of feeling very, I mean, it's different, because obviously, he still has living siblings, and a family there that want to nurture and support him. But if you're saying that he has a tough time, because he can't be around his family, because they all remind him of Fred. Yeah, he's going to want to put himself in surroundings that are totally different alien to him. So I could see him maybe ending up with somebody who we wouldn't traditionally put him with.

Well, it's funny you bring a pansy because I feel like I don't know if we talked about this with Iran and pansy but with pansy, like, she's a character that I mean, you. You either keep her being like a bitch. Or you give her the opportunity to have her redemption of seeing it from the point of view of giving up Harry to save others. You know what I mean? Like everyone sees her as the bad guy for saying like, Oh, there's Harry, turn him in, and everyone being like, How dare you Like, you're terrible, but she's like, look at all, like, all the people that died after this, like, it would be instant, you know, to like, look at her and demonize her for such a thing. And pot like there's the possibility of her like, gravitating away from her family or, or having different, you know, values or trying to be seen as someone other than the person who tried to give Harry Potter up to Lord Baltimore. And maybe it is something that they like find each other like, what if it's one of those instances of like George's at a bar literally, literally, like drinking away his sorrows? And she's kind of there to or him meeting someone in that regard. But then if you is that an instance where two broken people would heal and move forward, kind of like we talked about potentially Angelina and George, or would it be something that grew into something continuously toxic because they couldn't grow out of where they were at? Together? Like it depends on if they there, they want to move forward? Or if the fact that it's like, you're a distraction like you, you are, you're the I'm with you, because I don't think about anything else that I don't want to deal with, you know what I mean? Whereas someone like Angelina is from his past is from some sort of relationship with his brother, like is has a direct connection to, I feel like, yeah, it would have been very different and would be easier for him to gravitate and stay away from his family. If he went in a totally different, you know, direction or even it doesn't even have to be pansy. It could literally be just any random person like we like we talked about, I think, what is it? One of the instances where well, we have Audrey, who's Percy's wife that we don't really know anything about her. And Rolf is is a is a scum Ander. Is that right? Yeah,

yeah.

So I mean, we just we know that name, but it's like, how do we you know, how to meet him and things like that. So it's like, doesn't mean that you're meant to be with someone you went to school with, like, you're gonna meet other people. And, but I just, I feel like Angelina was probably chosen because of that. Like, I feel like she would be someone to help link him to a pass that he might want to outrun. But she doesn't let him you know, yeah, that makes sense.

So, a couple of things that we haven't talked about yet. Are the children that George and Angelina have? Fred and Roxanne. And also, whether or not Fred comes back as a ghost. Mm hmm.

Yeah, I think because they they talk about what is it? Um, oh, because who Harry talks to Nearly Headless Nick. But does he talk to? Who else does he bring it up to when he is wondering about Sirius?

I think it's mostly that he has the discussion with Nick. I know, he talks to Rowena Ravenclaw. But I think that's mostly the diet

nurse. But I mean, but ultimately, someone tells him like, there's he he would want to go on. Like, it's like, I mean, if you think about it, like, would he want to come back and be trapped in a plane where everyone he knew and loved would be he would watch them grow old and then eventually be gone? Or would he want to go on to be with the people that he loved? You know, James Lilly? What? You know, it Regulus even like, who knows? Like as far as that goes, but yeah, with Fred, I don't know. I feel like it would be kind of be a similar situation of him being like, if he came back to be with, you know, the family and whatever. When George eventually I don't know. I mean, I feel like if Fred made that choice, he would definitely be attempting to be like, living his life as a person, you know, like trying to still be involved with Weasleys Wizard Wheezes kind of like a bins thing. Like, he just woke up dead. And he like he was a ghost. And he just kept teaching for whatever however many, you know, decades or centuries or whatever, and but yeah, it's just it's interesting why someone would make that choice. And I feel like most of the time the choice is made out of fear, like fear of what's next of fear of being forgotten, or whatever. So I just I feel like he wouldn't, I don't know, like, I just it's, but he but he's going before everyone, you know, I mean, not that he obviously doesn't have grandparents and things like that. But it's like he's one of the first of all of them to, you know, to leave them. So obviously he's going on to wherever Yeah, like, I don't

know. Yeah, one of the things I suppose But that sort of sways me against Fred coming back as a ghost is that I see him being like quite hands on with the pranks. And then we know that like, unless you have, like the Bloody Baron with his sword, like, unless it's something that

you actually have rights, right or traits. Yeah. You can't

necessarily interact with your surroundings. So I think that would be an incredibly sad existence. Yeah. But what I can see, and what I do see happening is George having a portrait of Fred commissioned like the, like the magical portraits in the headmaster's office. And so whenever anybody is coming into the shop, you'll still get the banter between them, because George is having it with Fred's portrait. So there's still that element of continuous give and take

would be so wholesome. Like, and my question is, like, I don't know that this has been answered anywhere. But it how do you how do you get everything that was a person up until their death? Like how are you able to put that into a portrait? Is it like sometimes, when it's written in fic? is like, okay, like, you might see, like, it could be a Dumbledore portrait, but like, when he's younger, because it was commissioned, and he put his memories or whatever, into it, because he was still alive. Like, can you commissioned something after the fact? But it's like, because would Dumbledore have like have a portrait waiting, you know, just to like, be there and like, he's, you know, kind of like, a software update. Like, every once in a while he goes, it has a chat with his portrait, and it's just like, so this is what happened this year, you know, like, I just like, how does that work? How are they able to get the essence of someone because they have to have so many, like some instance of memories, because it's like Dumbledore is there helping and talking Snape through his plan, you know, during that last book, so it's like, he's still very aware of what needs to be done. And after Harry goes through and accepts that I have to die. And then Dumbledore cries. And so obviously, he's very much that man. Yeah. So how does how does someone become that? And then how would they do that? And then, of course, like everyone would want a damn Fred Pope would like portrait in their house, like who would not want bread in their house? Like, exactly, yeah. Because I mean, normally, it's like, oh, there's only like, Phineas Nigella's. Like, there's the one that is in is the headmaster's office and there happens to be one that was at, you know, Grimmauld place or whatever. And it's like those you can only go outside of Hogwarts if you have an external, you know, painting or whatever. But yeah, I don't know. Cuz there's cuz what is it, there was another story that like, had something along the lines of like, honoring the fallen and like having images of like everyone who was lost like as like a memorial, but I don't know that they would be like, and I think that they were kind of like, they weren't portraits. They weren't like interactive, but they were Wizzard photographs. So it's like, there was still motion, but it's not like you could like interact with them, or something like that. And what was it because I think it was one that Draco was it was some of them were images that were from when they were younger, or you know, something like that. So it's it didn't necessarily show who they were in the end. But you know, it was still like a representation of them. But yeah, I would have hey, if anyone has had cannons or knows, yeah, if you're a portrait expert, please tell me how magical portraits work. Because I want to know how how everyone could get a Fred portrait because everyone deserves the one. At the very least, there needs to be one in wizard Weasleys Wizard Wheezes, like I mean, at the very least, like he should be like, above the, you know, above the tail, like big old. Fred Yeah, up there. And just like I mean, it has to be Yeah, because I don't know that you could actually have one out with a living person because it's like, what if, what if it was like, Okay, now I'm gonna have, I'm gonna put myself in there too. So it'll be George and Fred interacting with each other in there. But then Fred's probably bawling his eyes out because he's seeing himself interacting with his brother that he can't do. I just don't I just don't understand how these portraits work.

Well, in my head, in my head canon, we've talked about Luna being a really good Illustrator before, you know, what if Luna paints Fred's portrait,

oh, that would be so sweet. Like she and she would probably do it unprompted. Like I could see her doing that for several people. You know what I mean? like this being her, what what she decides or makes the choice to be like, I want to help my friends heal, because friendship is very important to her. And so then she does something that at first, like, I feel like when it comes to really meaningful, things like that, at first, when you're in pain, you could see it as like, kind of like another emotional attack, like you are unprepared to, like, come to terms with it. And so sometimes gifts of that nature can be kind of upsetting to people, but I feel like she everything that Luna does, is in the she's doing it out of genuine feelings and need to like, show her love and affection for other people. And yeah, that would be absolutely amazing. If she, you know, did that and then even like, what was it? I don't know that she? Well, it would kind of have to be people. I don't know how that works. Because once again, I have no idea how that works. It's like, if you don't know what a person looks like, do they go off of like someone's memories? Like, do you use a pensive? And then someone goes in and like watches the memory to then be able to paint them appropriately? Or literally? Is it like Bibbidi Bobbidi boo, portrait? You know what I mean? Like, like, how does this work? I want to know the logistics of magical portraits. Like I just, I want to know how these work. But I love the idea of Luna painting these like her and her like packaging them up and having them just like kind of show up, you know, like, even like a picture of serious or like, you know, it's for Harry like that would just be it's just the Yeah, that just has to be. So now it'd be just such a beautiful thing. So I feel like having something like that versus Fred coming back, as you know, a ghost like that would be something permanent for him to be like, it's like, okay, you're going to be on the human, you know, the living plane for ever. And then most likely, the rest of your family will go on without you.

Yeah, I don't like the thought of Fred being stuck in limbo. I don't like the thought of anybody being stuck in limbo. And I think this is probably too spiritual topic, podcast. But I would like to think that one of the Weasleys could at least make the choice to bring Fred with them. If they felt that Fred was stuck, like he needed the help to move on that they could do that,

you know, hey, question is like, like, of course, like I think Dumbledore whenever we say that, it's like when you are in that making that choice of like going back or going forward or whatever. And in Harry's instance, it was coming back. still human, not not as ghosts or whatever. But it's like, Wait, if you choose ghost is your like, are you still kind of there? Like say like, at crank Kings Cross? Like, could there be a potential of you being able to move on because like you say, someone either can help you move on. That's another thing too. There's a lot of things with ghosts and things. It's like the reasons why you stay because you have unfinished business. And then when you finish that business, you're able to move forward, like I think most ghost, you know, things that I've like experienced in shows in stories or things like that. It's like there's always a purpose for them to have stayed behind needing to finish something before moving. Moving on. So that could be I don't know what his you know, goal would be whereas like you look at like, Nearly Headless Nick. It's like he just wants to be included in the headless hunt. And he will never be included in the headless hunt. And then I could see the end. What is it the Bloody Baron? He kills Rowena and she comes back as like, I mean, I don't know if like, I could see Rowena coming back because or not Rowena Halina, right, Elena is the daughter. Yeah. So Elena, yeah, Helena. And she comes back because I could see her being afraid to see her mother again, like moving on, because she felt like she betrayed her. And then of course, when he he had killed her and he wanted to have his like, life of I don't know atonement, I guess like or feeling like he needed to be, you know, trapped and live and see what he did. You know, like, the whole like, carry his, like sins, I guess you could say kind of, he makes me think very like, like Marley. You know, like, it's like carrying his Yes, and things like that. That's how I feel like Bloody Baron because he's still like, covered in silver blood, which is him, you know, burdening her and himself. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, whoo, it's just, it's a lot. We don't really think

that's it. That's a lot to be around kids. Also, this really it's a depressing thought that these ghosts are just sort of locked in at Hogwarts in perpetuity. Yeah, like on permanent ghost lockdown. Yeah. Because Because Nearly Headless Nick can't join the headless Han. So is there more magic going on that we have

Myrtle literally, like depressed off, like just young girls just like wailing and moaning and hanging out in the bathroom. It's just like, but we know you and I know that Hogwarts is obviously the most nurturing and mentally healthy environment, any. Like, it's just, you're just it's there thinking so much about the students while being like, obviously, there's a choice there.

Yeah. I definitely don't like the more that I think about ghosts, the less happy that I am that they are in the universe. Yeah, because the implications of it are just so sad.

It's sad.

And it's another thing to think about. It's like, okay, do you come back and the last thing you were wearing? And then the last thing you were wearing? Was it comfortable? And is was it like decent? Like? I don't know, which is funny. But anyway, but Fred, George Angelina.

I could see, I could see if you get to choose what you wear as a ghost. I could see Fred electing to come back in a mankini. Just for the pure just for the shock value. Oh, yeah, I definitely think he'd approve. And it would be a sort of a symbol of what he was like in

Oh, man. Oh, reverend. No. Oh, oh, wow. Oh, wow. But But yeah, I couldn't see him. Like, baking that choice. Kind of like with, like, serious like, but of course, serious was moving on to be with, you know, knows his friends are there and whatever. And so Fred is just, I don't I mean, you don't see a lot of ghosts. So obviously, it's like, it's gotta be, there's got to be purpose behind someone feeling like they either can't deserve or they're afraid to move on. And I don't see Fred as he's he's a strong enough person that it's like he would accept it. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, oh, you know? And then he's, yeah, I don't know.

But I think we all have a fear of dying. And this is my, this is my complaint with that characterization of all maybe they're just too scared to move on. Yeah, actual thought of coming face to face with your own mortality isn't a cheery one for most people. And I think unless you're in a position where you're suffering a lot in life, you're not really welcoming death with open arms. Like, I don't know, like the third brother in the tail of the three brothers. You know, we're right. We don't always have that luxury. Yeah. So when you say, oh, you know, maybe they're just not ready to or do they don't want to face it? I think there's an element of that. In all of those. Yeah, but whether or not you'd want to be stuck on one plane in perpetuity, right. That's not that's not really a choice for me. And if I'm, you know, if I'm being on brand for myself and wanting the best for people, I can't want that for Fred. Because to condemn anybody to any plane of existence. For, you know, an inordinate amount of time feels like a really bad punishment. There's no other word for that.

Is there someone like a Dumbledore waiting for you there to like, kind of, like have a presentation of like, if you make the choice to go back as a ghost, this is what you can expect from your existence. Or if you move on to whatever, but what like, I just like, I feel like it'd be really funny if there is like, some chip or somebody there just like going over your options, you know, just like, well, let's take a look at what you know, what you might be thinking of doing and whatever, because

yeah, I just looked behind door number two.

Exactly. I just that would be you know, kind of that would be so funny. But and how, oh god, how sweet would it be? How sweet would it be? Okay, it has to be. It has to be this way. Because obviously Dumbledore is gone. Dumbledore is dead, but he's able to somehow meet Harry, you know what I mean? Like he's able to meet Harry on his, you know, he was able to get to some level of a mutual plane. Fred has to come and be the one that George sees, you know what I mean? Yeah, like, like George would be there. And then Fred would be there. And why am I making myself cry? This is so sad. But we knew going in that this was gonna be semi sad because we're talking about Fred. So what are we gonna do other than be sad some of the topics? But, but yeah, I can only imagine that moment where George finally gets to see his brother again and then go on with him, you know what I mean and be together again, eternally, you know, if we don't if wizards like they believe that, you know, I mean, obviously, it's assumed based on you know, how we know the book was written and how it was religiously, you know, set around and things like that, like you would you're under the understanding of like, you either come back as a ghost or you move on to whether it be heaven, or what is the next next place for your soul to be? Yeah,

whatever the next chapter happens to be. Yeah, yeah. So in terms of Fred, I think we're agreed that he's not hanging about but that if there are any vestigial forms of him, that they're somehow transmuted into a portrait that flits between Weasleys Wizard Wheezes the borrow, or shell cottage or somewhere something Yeah, some Weasley family home.

Definitely the burro and the store. Yeah, absolutely. So, like George would probably be, I don't know, like you would, because they could talk after hours, like either a, he could obviously be in their office, but then it's like, I feel like he would want to see and interact with like, seeing like customers faces, you know what I mean? Like, just like lining up with, you know, everything that they're doing and whatnot. And

I'm much in a sort of a, in a sort of a similar way that the black matriarch was a pride of place in that house. And you know, she had to be covered over with the curtains. Because she was so disgusted by who ends up being there. I feel like Fred would be the opposite, where he'd be like, so proud of seeing everybody and, you know, when and seeing everyone grow up and be a part of it. And he'd be complaining as well. Like, he'd be like, I can't believe you stop those there. Oh, there's not enough natural light coming in from this window. You know, like, I can see him being really fussy about the way we lose Wizard Wheezes looks and having such like a pride of like, because he's so invested in and that was so much a part of his future, that I can still see him being like, No, obviously, that doesn't belong here. Like they belong over there. And, you know, like just being so hands on in inverted commas. Post death, I absolutely see that.

I'm still stuck on those portraits. So because it has to be something that's like planned out or like has something like already being having been made, because it's like, you'd think that Harry has so much money, like Harry obviously has plenty of money like he could commission, his parents, he could commission serious like, I feel like there would have to have been some sort of backup of these people to like, go into the portrait because like Dumbledore passes, and immediately, he's in a portrait in the headmaster's office. And that's what like, what really hits home with Harry to know that he's gone, because the portraits there. So it's like, I don't know, but I'm gonna I'm gonna make a very, like, I'm just gonna make a personal choice and say that it is possible or however it was, you're able to do it and Fred stays portrait because I just he it part of him has to be there. Part of him has to be around that just has to be that

way. And the sad thing is, is we haven't really talked about George in any context. Beyond getting over friends. Yeah, like, and he does have canonical children. Yeah, you know, they are there. He has to have some sort of life and some happiness that he's found for himself. I mean, whether or not that you take that from Canon, or whether or not he's you know, been dating li Jordan nice. And we take it off in fanfiction directions. Like I also want George to have his happy future. I want Angelina to have hers as well. But I just think we're so used to seeing, particularly these three core characters together. They are like another trigger, like you said, Yeah, I think we get used to sort of grouping characters together and seeing them all. You know being pretty have a larger unit that when they're separate, it feels wrong. Yeah. Because they never were when we knew them, you know?

Yeah, no, that's absolutely absolutely true. I definitely think Angelina is like the Hermione figure of like, just holding them accountable and just being like, you know, like even even in school, like, it's like you guys need to study like, I know you guys are smart. Look at all this stuff you make like, you're just you're just lazy. Like, it's one of those things that they're definitely brilliant. Like, they are smart. They're probably Percy smart. Like, they are super smart. They just don't care. Like, they just genuinely don't care. It's not a priority. So I just, that's, they're so funny.

Well, I've had other people in the family to do that already. Bills and Charlie's and Rachel and Percy is a bit of a SWAT and a bookworm and very officious. So, so they don't, there's no pressure on them to be that. Whereas with, you know, with other kids, maybe if we've, you know, we deal with only children, or if you're, you know, coming from a maybe a pure blood family that really cares about putting your best foot forward all the time, then you're gonna have those precious to be that. But with them, they really had a lot of breathing room to be the sort of wacky idiots that we know and love them for. And I think that at least in terms of George, that has to be, he has to be more of that going forward. I mean, yes. Okay. There's got to be a lot of years of George having to deal with, if not Fred's death, then postwar stuff. But I like to think that George does eventually even ask, because I've known a few adults in my life, who behave more like kids than kids do. They sort of overcompensate and come back round. And I definitely could see George fulfilling that kind of a role. And that isn't to say that he is irresponsible, or unhappy. But I just think that such a large part of his soul is bound up in a sense of clay and a sense of fun. And I would want to see more of that in an older George, just say,

Oh, absolutely. And I think and I feel like my hope is that, like, Ron is the one who helps him with Weasleys Wizard Wheezes, and he's able to, like build that relationship with his brother, and have that passion for it and be able to get excited and do these things and move forward together in that so that he wasn't alone, because I feel like that would be really impactful to all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, it's my business. Now, you know, what I mean? Like not having it be, you know, shared with, with family or whatever. But, but yeah, so I hope, obviously, that I hope and believe that, like anyone, it's like, it's not you don't forget anybody, but you, you can accept that they're gone, but they're not forgotten, and you're able to move forward and have a happy life and, and all of that. And so I'm sure that if he if, if the idea of naming a child after Fred brought him pain, he wouldn't do it. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, it obviously would be a celebration of like, I loved my brother, we loved my brother, and it's like, okay, he's, you know, coming into this world, and, and it's gonna, I'm gonna honor Him because of my love and everything for him. Because it's like, just Yeah, I don't know,

I was gonna make her I was gonna make a quick point about if George and Angelina got together, do you see their relationship and their dynamic being very domestic? Or more unconventional? Like, where on the scale is their family home? If we accept that they have those kids? Yeah. Like, what sort of a future do you want for them? Because I don't know that either of them would be very happy, long term in a traditional domestic setting. I see them being in a sort of equivalent of the so I don't know have you seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

Yes, but it's been forever. But yes, I have see Chitty Chitty fic

so I see them in like those kids growing up in a sort of a Chitty Chitty Bang Bang house, where like George invents all of these weird things where like the breakfast doesn't just appear it comes on a little tray. Oh,

my gosh, yes. Okay. Yes, they have to have a bunch of weird wacky things that is an Angelina is probably like shrieking up the stairs like George Oh, but like something either breaks or like You know, something, it's like, it's like, stop it. Stop testing. Stop testing these things here like, yeah, when I think of George and Angelina, it makes me think of like when people see Jenny moving on to be like, perfect, you know, moves on to the holy head, harpies. And she does her professional thing until I'd imagine like once you decide to have children and obviously that's very hard to do sports and have kids. And and that sort of thing. And I could see Angelina moving on to do professional sports. Like, I feel like she's really passionate in that regard. And then maybe it takes a while for them to be together like and, you know, what if he's like, kind of, like the best friend cheerleader, like, whenever she has, like, local matches, or if he's able to go like, he's always going to see her, you know, see her games and whatever and but she definitely would be the person to like, hold down the fort. Like she would she'd be the one like, you know, holding the kids accountable. But then also like, hoping that they have fun because of course, George is just going to be that cool dad, like he's just going to be that goofy, cool dad that and like, and like moms, you know, Angela is going to have her hands on her hips, like all the time, just like oh my gosh, like, seriously, you're you're bigger child than they are like. But that's what she loves about him.

Yeah, yeah, I'd like when the kids are slightly older, he can bring them to like the matches. So they're all watching mom play. And like, I can see George sort of doing the, like the equivalent of the Weasley jumper thing, except I can see him making like Weasley scarves for them to wear at the matches and stuff.

Oh, that would be so cute. Yeah, I know.

I know. So much. As I said, I don't see them in a traditional domestic setting. I definitely think it can be fluffy. I just don't think very much about tradition, right sits well with either George or Angelina. You know, I think they're both a bit too creative and a little bit too adventurous for that to work. Long term mood. That's just my, the way my head works.

Well, you think of like Angelina was one of the few that we know of like girls that actually put forth their name as like champion. Like, she was obviously confident enough to be like, I want to do this, like, I want to prove that I can be like this. And I feel like she will always be that, you know, that individual which I really admire about her character in that regard. So it's like, even though we don't see a lot of her, you can kind of like finally pick out like you're like, Okay, she is she's small, but she was definitely positively written as a strong female character, we just don't see a lot of her. So that's like, a very positive thing that came out of her character creation and, and things like that. But yeah, I just, I don't know, it's, it's funny, like, we talked about all the sad stuff. And now I'm at the point that it's like, you know, what George is there's too much like fun and goofy in there. And they would have so many happy memories that it's like, I know that they would reach a point that their life would be so blissful, it would be so much fun, they would just be just like he would be pulling pranks all the time. And she would pretend to be mad at the same time. She just like this is the reason I love you, you know, sort of thing. And I feel like it would if anyone would be able to over time be able to re you know, reconnect with that, like whimsical, you know, side of things like George would get there, especially I feel like once they had kids, like I feel like that would be really impactful for him to be a parent, right. Get back to like, okay, now I have to get on this child's level and I can remember the reasons why I'm into like, even Weasleys was a Wizard Wheezes it's like I own a joke shop like obviously I'm not a normal adults like just like yeah, I literally am making all these weird things mostly for kids, you know what I mean? So it's uh, but yeah, I just state they miss Fred but they're really happy to get there

I'm glad that that's where we're leaving off today

after everything they are very happy together the end Wow. Wow. As always, it's like if you have you know, your thoughts and feelings on this ship, like definitely reach out to us on like, Twitter and Tumblr and things like that. We all love getting, you know, fic racks as well. And it's, it's always fun to see what you guys think because obviously we know what we think and we're just saying nonsense, but we want to know what You think too, so? Yeah,

yeah. And it will help us say more nonsense in the future. If you have a good idea. Yeah. And you're like, I would like Nathan and Meg to talk about this thing. One of the ways you can do that that's really cool that I love is if you reach out to us on our Telegram, don't be scared of leaving voice notes, if you think I don't want them to use our voice, just say like, and we won't use your anything that you send us without permission, obviously, although we would love to feature your thoughts and ideas, so if you're in the mood to send us a voice note, I love corresponding that way because it's so much faster than typing anyway,

you can type you can absolutely send us text messages. That's totally Yeah, well,

you couldn't come into the discord. stuff in the discord. There's a million myriad ways you can reach us on various handles and everything will be linked in the description. So

it's Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, do that good thing, but thank you for sticking with us through this hot mess of it. We we have not been well, yes. But we are very good

manner. Now. I'm so I feel lost.

Yeah, this has definitely helped. Yes. Thank you for helping me grow my way back to normal.

Yeah. Well, thank you, everybody, and we will see you next time. No, not the bye.

Bye is better than nothing. I don't just want to end on silence. I'm not. I can't just sit there and be like

the end.

So now that you've finished enjoying that episode, a bet you're wondering what we're going to be talking about next time. Will it be a ship? Could it be a Trump? What about a character centric episode, editing makes put the listeners out of their misery. Next time we'll be focusing on

Nathan and I are going to be diving into our best DTP, which is Flintwood Marcus splint and Oliver wood and we are so excited. So come back

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