Dying means but what is lucid living me? No. Well it means a number of things. On a natural level lucid living means lucidity is a code word for awareness. Lucid living means mindful living, being aware, being meta conscious metacognitive of what you're actually doing. But at a deeper level, ultimate lucidity. Alltime. Data ultimate daytime lucidity is basically discovering the illusory, dreamlike nature of reality. In other words, saying that reality is empty. It's an empty form. This is a colossal topic such a big topic that, like I mentioned two years ago, we spent almost an entire year on this topic under the context of my book, dreams of light. So this is a big deal. But it's important for us because lucid dreaming is uniquely situated. It's not a two for one practice. It's a three for one. So when you're engaging in lucid dreaming, which is like in the middle, not only does lucid dreaming lose lead to lucid dying. Lucid Dreaming also leads to lucid living. So it's not just bi directional, it's try directional. So we're actually opening interest a traffic between three previously restricted domains of consciousness are three different states. I think that's pretty cool. So capital talks from Dempster Rinpoche, one of my main teachers summarizes illusory foreign practice in this way. Looking nakedly at these forms that are like rainbows appearance emptiness, listen intently to the sounds that are like echo, echo, sound, emptiness, sound and emptiness. Look straight at the essence of mind clarity, emptiness, inexpressible and fixation free at ease in your own nature. Let go and relax. Right. That's it. How many times have you heard me say that? Secret irreducible instruction for a good life and a good death? But go open. Relax. That's it. That's all you have to do. Easy not easy, simple. Simple, doesn't mean easy. DT Yoga also applies on the bar to becoming Oh, Lord, here we go. Another massive topic. So this again is this is this is one reason why there's so much to say here. Because when we're dealing with these Bardo teachings, we're dealing with the singularity of reality. This is the reduction base. This is that from which everything arises and that to which everything returns, it's so concentrated, it's like this like reality concentrate. And that's why we're doing like I'm reading Well, one page, two pages, and I mean, I'm even cutting it short. I mean, you could just give entire courses on every one of these. So here's yet another one deity yoga generation stage practices. This is by some scholars like Reggie Ray. My here's argumentations interesting kind of percentage point he talks about the entire of Adrianna Tantra. Discipline he articulates all of Adriaan in three fundamental archetypal practices. The practices of generation stage what we're talking about here, the the practices of the formless medications, and then the third one has just escaped me. It'll come back to me before the session is over. So there's deity yoga, there the Oh yeah, the inner yoga see, it came back to me. So enter Yoga is the deity yoga is visualization practices, and then the formulas yoga is basically 1/3 1/3 and 1/3. So basically, deity yoga is is 1/3 of of tantric Marciana practice. Deity Yoga also applies on the Bardo, becoming, if you can visualize yourself as a deity, or your future parents as deities when you see them at the end of this Bardo, that pure perception will transfer your consciousness to a pure land. pure perception or sacred outlook is the central aspect of deity yoga and a step beyond illusory form, practice. So pure perception, this is another boy doc nine. This is another major massive topic and one way there's a number of ways to talk about pure perception. But one way to talk about reality purified of your projections, your imputations we reality D reified reality seen as inseparable, fundamentally, from what's called threefold impurity. pure perception. Again, it's a multi Vaillant term, being free from threefold. Impurity means the stain of saying things in terms of subject, object and consciousness, which is where the ways we see the world that's given. There's something out there there's me and here, there's consciousness. Consciousness connects well, you've heard me say this before. consciousness does not connect, consciousness separates, wisdom connects. And so pure perception refers to what we talked about in the dreams of light book. Give the big fancy term but it's, some scholars talk about it is a tantric epistemology, which is this terminology is just the kind of the study of knowing the different ways of knowing. And impure perception is classic. What we know is perception which is seeing things in a dualistic way. Purified perception is a kind of tantric epistemology, non dualistic epistemology which is where you you purify the stains of subject, object and consciousness and you see things as what's called reflexively aware. Oh my gosh, there's so much here. Sacred I look at involves not only seeing everything as illusion but as perfectly pure illusion. And the Bardo, this pure perception transforms your impure projections into purity, cuts your negative reactions to whatever arises and allows you to relate to everything with equanimity. Oh my gosh, it's really it's like I have to catch my breath here because every sentence is like a an entire talk. On one of the things that's so important in this Bartel thing that I actually hadn't put together when I wrote this book was you know, as we left, a couple of weeks ago, we left the luminous part of Dharma TA and that we entered the karmic part of becoming you Well, what happens here is done the luminous Bartlet retirement atop the mind just radiates, it shines. There's no projection going on the mind is just shining. In Shambala language, it's literally the radiance of the Great Eastern sun. And then what happens that is so interesting to me. Let's say what happens in the Bardo, becoming and then further in what we call though this mortal life is the radiance is flipped into projection. So the mind is still shining. It's still doing this radiant expressive play, but it's no longer purified. And it's only purified when it's in the luminous Bardo diamond hot when you leave that and then what happens remember all heaven breaks loose and the Bardo. damata you don't recognize it. Everything flips, and then all hell breaks loose because what happens your heart your Harma Well, that's it. That's a very interesting Freudian slip. Your Harmer comes back. That's pretty good. Your Karma comes back to harm you I like that your harm comes back. And that's what makes the luminous Bardo Dharma ta so dangerous. It's not inherently like there's no pre existing Bardo there. It's just like there's no pre existing dreamscape. It's just your mind. So when they talk about the the terrifying perilous straits of the Bardo, it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna go into this entering this like this, this cosmic haunted house? No, you're just going to enter your karmic mind, free from the mediation of your body. You no longer have the buffer. And that's what makes the karmic Bardo of dermatitis so intense, because there's no longer any buffer and then basically, you know, as we'll see, you end up running away from it. But the important point for us here, excuse me is that everything fundamentally turns into a projection. And so it's beyond my riff at this point, but I've really been
over the last couple months returning to the unbelievable work of Carl Jung, and I just forget what a genius this guy was his work on depth, psychology, synchronicity, archetypes, Shadow Work, the collective unconscious, I mean, this guy was like a mahasiddha. He was amazing. So when I was looking at this, I'm thinking about this when you study this stuff at this level, it's in a very certain really, very real way you're working with ultimate shadow work. This is Ultimate shadow work. And you're dealing with projections at their fundamental root basis. You know, when when Carl Jung was talking about shadows in the in the traditional sense, this is projection, three steps removed from this, this is still the projection principle at a psychological classical depth psychology level. But this is what we know is this type of rejection is yet another like a cherished tertiary quaternary iteration of this fundamental and what we'll see is ontological projection, the very projection of the of the sense of, of externality, the projection that there's a reality out there to begin with, that's the fundamental projection. And that fundamental projection then that you continue to lie upon lie upon lie literally double entendre intended layer upon layer upon layer, fake news upon fake news, fracture upon fracture, projection upon projection. And so when you're doing really deep, psycho spiritual work, what are you doing, you're, you're doing the deepest level of shadow work. The integral theory has a really clever approach to this. It's called three to one. And then I had 0321 Shadow Work, which is basically about owning up owning up to your projections. And so this this particular iteration that takes place at a kind of fractal way because reality is iterative reality, reality is like a fractal. So this particular phenomenology of projection that Carl Jung came to, is three or four steps further removed from what's happening here. This is the reduction base of the phenomenology of projection altogether. And this is no small thing. Because then you can see if you take it down to this reduction base, you go okay, now I get it. Now I get it. And then this what happens is you hit you you have you another instance of this bi directional process, you could say, on one level provisionally, it all starts on the Bardo. You know, but Buddhism doesn't roll that way. Everything is is CO emergent. Everything is dependently arisen. So you can see provisionally that it all starts on the Bardo but not really. We project in the Bardo, because we project in life. We project in life because we project on the Bardo. So this pathology bootstraps, it lifts itself up, and therefore we get literally what's called co emergent ignorance. This stuff is amazing to me. So by you know, we come down here, we're coming down to the reduction base. reductionism is not all bad. I mean, reduction is in this level is a level of simplification. And in fact, what we're doing here the so it's so amazingly beautiful. It's not like we're reducing everything to fundamental particles like physical list reductionism, to so called atoms. There are no atoms by the way, they don't exist, particles don't exist. But this is reduction numbers in the sense you're not reducing everything to particles, you're actually reducing everything to Unity. Can we say that again? You're not reducing everything to particles here. You're reducing everything to Unity. So this reductionism is actually a type of elevation ism. You're fundamentally reducing in the sense of healthy reductionism saying everything really is this fundamental display of the luminous nature of the mind. And so therefore, this is why we study this crap. I mean, you go into this Bardo teaching, you're studying everything here. This is the reduction base of everything. And that's why there's so much here. I mean, really, this is actually kind of fun. I mentioned this last week, I think, you know, I wrote this thing, what 15 years ago. We have a second edition of this and I asked Jerry to get on this Jerry, this is your job. Get in there. I want you to transcribe this. We're going to make a new edition of this book. It's going to be 15,000 pages long. Okay, let's get serious. Not really. In order to apply the remedies appropriate to any Bardo, we first have to realize we're in them. This is the biggest problem. It's like the movie sixth sense. I really I like really liked that movie. By the way. The biggest problem in the Bardo is not realizing that you're in the Bardo. It's a non lucid Bardo experience. That's what makes the Bardo a nightmare. But just like in a lucid dream, and what is the Bardo, the dream at the end of time. You want to attain lucidity in the Bardo. And so what we're doing here with these teachings is we're working with a type of deepest level of dream sleep yoga, by working to attain lucidity by installing these teachings this GPS and so that we can wake up we can actually wake up to the process as it happens. Otherwise, this is the most amazing thing. Look at your nighttime dream. This is a big deal. If you don't wake up and take control of your nighttime dream, what does your Harma your Harma your karma, your bad habits. It's exactly what Rinpoche said remember che what is it that reincarnates your bad habits. And we'll see the principal habit is the habit for habitation itself. The principle habit is the habit for existence itself. And so basically if you don't take control of your nighttime dream, what does your karma if you don't wake up and take control in the dream at the end of time? What does your habits your karma, it's exactly the same thing. And so by attaining ultimate lucidity in this regard, you wake up in the Bardo, you realize that you're dead when you're dead because you've done Dream Yoga because you've studied this stuff because you practice illusory form, and the greatest obstacle that immediately transforms them into the greatest opportunity. Because instead of being blown around by your habits, you wake up to them, you go hey, wait a second. I'm either dreaming or dead. And then what you do say oh, you know, I think it might be dead. And then you attain lucidity can be a little jolting at first unless you do this practice. And then guess what? Recognition and liberation are simultaneous Tibetan Book of the Dead. Repeat it probably 10 times in that book, recognition and liberation or simultaneous so when that line is repeated in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, this is a lucidity line. So that's what we want to do. We want to attain lucid, dying, conscious dying, so that we wake up, then we can direct the process, just like in a lucid dream. Just like a lucid dream. It's just another iteration, right? It's just another iteration of the DREAM principle. stuff is amazing to me. Without this preparation, this is unlikely. Most people go unconscious at the end of the Bardo of dying miss the Bardo, dharma TA and even miss recognizing the Bardo, becoming the end up in their next life thrown into it by the winds of karma, and soul. The cycle of samsara continues until we wake up to the process. This is really great. This is total Buddhist fire and brimstone. This is raffle if the teachings can get because, you know, using Occam's razor and the principles of parsimony, you can describe reality thoroughly without recourse to a creator principle. That's what makes this tradition of non theistic you don't need a God even though there are Gods you don't need a creator god. It's unnecessary. It's superfluous. So you can't really put the fear of God into you. I love this rant, because there isn't one. But what you can do and this is actually called wholesome fear. is put the fear of Harma into you. But the fear of karma puts the fear of your habits into you. This is a really excellent thing. Because again, this is the only thing you're going to take with you.
Let me say this again. This is the only thing you're going to take with you is your Harmony your your karma your habits and so remember this beautiful line but the five remembrance is I love this because I recite this a lot right? My actions are my only true belongings, actions. paren karma. That's what karma is literally the word means action. By actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground on which I stand. That's just that now that's done. So you want to prepare for the end of life leading for death lead a good life. Let the force of your goodness let the force of your good karma take good care of you. So when when the teachings say that you know, karma is the only thing that really is operative. That's not always bad news. It's only bad news if you stuffed the ballot box, your unconscious mind with all these bad habits. So stuff the ballot box with these good habits. And so then when that Good Karma comes up, it's going to take good care of you. So this is why, you know, I mean, good lord, you don't have to be a Buddhist to have a good death. You just have to be a good person. It's like, Dalai Lama Lama Zopa Rinpoche has this fantastic bodhichitta the awakened heart mind of loving kindness, compassion. They say and I love this. It lays a red carpet for you out in the Bardo. The best thing you can do to have a good death is lead a good life. And then when you die, guess what? That good karma is going to come it's going to carry you away. You're going to be what's called a Bardo VIP. So your Rinpoche talks about this, I like it. If you're really bad boy in a really bad girl, and there's no shortage of those today. That's a creation of what's called really heavy karma. We'll talk about this later. Before aspects of the Four Laws of transitional karma, like what rules the roost when you die karma and the laws of karma. And the heaviest the first and heaviest of these comments is literally called heavy karma. And heavy karma is basically what you've stuffed your mind with into your entire life. So if you're a bad boy and a bad girl, there's no shortage of those. You become a Bardo VIP. This Bardo doesn't even exist for you. You go directly you pass go. You go directly to the law around your the force of your bad habit is so strong, the bar to becoming doesn't even exist for you. Conversely, if you're a really good boy and a really good girl this is great right? You also this these Bardot's don't exist for you. The force of your when the force of that karma that heavy karma is so good, it's so strong. You're immediately catapulted into a pure land or the highest dimensions of the god realms. make sense to me. Yeah, so the cycle of samsara continues until we wake up to the process. This has been an endless thing. It ain't gonna stop this is pure. You can take physics This is pure causality. This is basic cause and effect. It's not going to stop. It's not going to stop why should it? You're violating it's like violating the laws of gravity, like violating the laws of cause and effect. That's what karma is. It's not going to stop. Sooner you wake up to this the sooner you clean up your act. The sooner these actions so to speak, start to do you write? This to me this just makes so much sense must just so logical, right? Least that is to me. declares how conscious you will be in the Bardot's look at how conscious you are during a dreamless sleep and during dreams. There you go every night's a pop quiz. That's either good news or bad news. Every night you cycle through the kayas and therefore we get a glimpse of the Bardot's Yes, it's another fractals another iteration, just another fractal expression of what's going to happen. You want to get a preview of coming attractions. Look at what happens every night when you're doing when you sleep. Every night is a mini death every morning is a mini breath every in breath is a mini birth. Every out breath is a mini death. We're basically taking rebirth and dying all the time, moment to moment to moment at a cellular level at an atomic level at a psychological level. We are going through at rapid paces the recycling karmic rebirth process all the time. It's just when you die. That's kind of the biggest show. But the small shows the small deaths and the small births are happening all the time. So this is how you can prepare for the big show by taking care of the small shows. Again, it makes a lot more sense. As we've seen going to sleep is a similitude concordant experience of dying. Deep dreamless sleep is similar to the Bardo Dermatol and dreams are similar to the Bardo, becoming this isn't meant to discourage us in the event we don't have recognition during the night but to encourage us to to practice the practice that develops that recognition in other words work that awareness excuse me that lucidity. Cool Okay, another big one kind of stuff is there's so much here. This is kind of cool. Mind leads all things. So this is a classic principle of the Pali canon. There isn't really a Bible in this Buddhist business, but if I guess if there was you couldn't make a case that is the Pali canon, a massive collection of texts that represent the corpus of the terabyte in Indiana schools. My friend David Loy, who is so respect I mean, amazing, amazing philosopher, thinker. I asked him once like, you know, like, what, what's your desert island? What's your source book that you would take with you and he says, Pali canon, big book set of books. The important point in the Bardot's is that the mind leads all things well, because there only is the mind. Mind literally becomes your reality. There is nothing else. Well, even at that level right now. There's nothing else there's only mind right now. physicality is an illusion. materiality is a construct spacetime. Causality themselves are a construct. It's all mine just now. We're in a mind right. We're in a dream right now. Literally, it's not a metaphor. Hence the Buddha. What? The Awakened One. He woke up from this nightmare of reified duality. There's nothing else that close six experiences or dreams which is why Dream Yoga is so helpful for death by realizing that mind becomes reality. We prepare for the Bardot's by becoming familiar with very definition of meditation, right to become familiar with the minds wilderness now, a central theme of this book. Sooner or later, we have to face it, so that's the other that's the other fire and brimstone thing fate. Sooner or later. You have to face your maker. And this is what's going to happen when you die. It's so fantastic. I think we get to this later. When you die you will meet your maker. Your first pass maker is the maker that arises and the luminous part of damata. Second pass are the some scars, the habit patterns. That's what happens in this Bardo. So you're going to meet your maker at a lot relative level by meeting your samskaras by meeting your habit patterns. That's what's making you right now. That's what's forming you right now you think you have free will? No way. No way. Free will is a totally illusion. We can talk about that in the q&a if you want. It's just it's a complete construct. You'd have no free will. So go Rinpoche says the still revolutionary insight of Buddhism is that life and death are in the mind and nowhere else. Mind is revealed as a universal basis of experience, the creator of happiness and the creator of suffering, creator of what we call life and what we call death. High five. That's it. Our relationship to our mind at death is the Buddhist version of Judgment Day. Totally. But in Buddhism, there's no one to judge us. We're judged solely by the level of our familiarity with our own mind. Are you prepared to meet your maker? Are you prepared to face your mind when you die? That's all that's gonna happen. Basically, you're just it's just a it's a rapid involuntarily. Involuntary introduction to who you really are. bid on basically death is like I often say, when I teach silent retreats, that silence is for bumping into yourself. I like that. Well, death is for slamming into yourself. You're gonna slam into yourself when you die. Doesn't have to be a slam. If you're prepared, it can be very gentle. It doesn't have to be raffle. But you are fundamentally going to be absolutely, positively, forcefully non negotiable. That's what makes it forceful. It's non negotiable. Its uncompromising. You're going to be forced into your nature as the mind falls into itself. Are you familiar with that? Do you meditation? Been there done that? No problem. Without meditation Yikes. What the heck's going on? No familiarity. panic, panic from that. The whole recycling process just starts. It's just this like this makes so much sense to me.
This is why the Bardos are very charged time. One poorly timed bad thought and our attachment to it can drag us into the lower realms when properly timed good thought and our cultivation of it can lift us into the higher realms or even a pure land. This premise forms the basis for the entire Pure Land tradition. Yeah. The other course I'm teaching this year Shambala mountains oh actually dweller Mountain Center, I guess it's called now in May week on this topic. This second paper mache writes quote it said that every thoughts that occurs in the mind especially if it is watered with intention is planting a seed for an entire lifetime. Oops. Oops. Should they have that harmful thought right. Now this doesn't mean you have to be kind of puritanical and like squash every thought No. You cannot control the arising of the contents of your mind. You shouldn't even try you can't control that. What you can control is your relationship to it. Right? That's what you can control. You may have free you may not have free will. But you do have free won't. Let me say that again. You may not have free will. But you do have free won't. In other words, I don't need to act on this. If you don't act on that thought action is another word for karma. The thoughts self liberates. It doesn't matter how nasty they have thought is it's stillborn. It's like snowflakes falling out hot rock. The so called nasty thought has no inherent power. If it just comes and has enough space and it just dissolves like writing in water. The issue is not the arising of the thought. The issue is your relationship to that thought you glom on to it, you pour gasoline on it and you feed it. That's a problem. That's samsara. If you let that thought come up, it's still born in the double intended sense. It still comes up and Doa there's no problem with that. So this is where meditation cultivates a wide open spacious witness awareness mind where everything arises like clouds in the sky. comes and goes. No prob Leymah the probe Leymah is inappropriate relationship grasping. That's where the problem starts. You cannot control what arises in your mind. Yes, yes, you can muscle it. Yes. You can say okay, I'll show you that I can couldn't control my mind. I'll be put in an fMRI and I'm going to concentrate on this candle for the next like how long? So you can temporarily muscle it down like a whack a mole strategy. But fundamentally Milarepa saying about this itself, you know you don't you there's no reason to control it. Just don't indulge it. Let it come let it go. Right. I mean, this is what you can control. This is what you can control your relationship. That's what meditation is about. Meditation is not about stopping the play of your mind. Don't even try. Let it come let it go. Not an issue. If I'm sitting here feeling upset, and according to Buddhist tradition, I'm planting the seed of a rebirth into that realm of irritation Yes, but only if I indulge on it and only if I let that thought take on a life of its own. Let me say that again. It's only because I allow that thought to take on a life of its own double entendre and test it again. If you do that, that's rebirth. That's the reincarnation process. happening at a fractal fashion. In the display of your own mind you witnessing this entire phenomenology in the display of your own mind. What happens at death is that the display is just a grand display because it's no longer mediated by an obtunded by physicality, their illusion of physicality. It's just more intense, that's all. It's no different. Exactly the same. The six realms of samsara divided into 27 possible realms of existence for sure. This is why it's so fascinating to study the puroland tradition because they go through these 27 states in tremendous detail. Each state of existence is entered by spending time with that respective state of mind now can't there's so much here, this is it. You want to know where you're going to be reborn? Look at the state of your mind now. You want to know why Putin is going to be born into hell, because he's living in hell. Literally, epistemology leads to ontology MindScape leads to landscape the mind leads all things the state of existence is entered by spending time and becoming familiar with there's a definition of meditation with that respective state of mind now, this cultivates the karma of that state. For example, if we spend lots of time being angry, like good old LOD in a bunch of these other bad boys and girls, will guess why. You're absolutely positively greasing your skids for a rapid VIP decline into hell. Because you're living in one. And by the way, these realms you know, it's like, oh, these realms just oh, they're like archetypal. They're just metaphysical. They're just like a logical, no, they're not. I remember Trungpa Rinpoche once, I wouldn't say he got pissed off because he never he gets pissed off. He realized everything was total equanimity, but I remember him once saying something quite forceful. When some intellectual or philosophical guy in some big audience setting start took him on a little bit in saying, well, Rinpoche really, come on let's get real. Aren't these realms archetypes? Aren't they just psychological states? And he said, with real firmness and I'm paraphrasing him You said, no, these states are just as real or unreal as this. And so it's only because of ego and its ontological imperialism that thinks is the only dimension in reality, I mean, give me a break, that we somehow think these other 27 states are basically these are just sweet little poetic archetypes. No, they're not man. You are going to go into one of these realms with as much reality as you are in this realm. They are not metaphors. They are as real or unreal as this. Yes, we're becoming familiar with the hell realm whether we know it or not. We're painting our way into hell. By nurturing higher states of mind and abstaining from lower states. This is where the whole maxim of what to accept and what to reject comes into play, right. We are cultivating our eventual rebirth. This is how to prepare for rebirth. Look at your mind. Notice the psychological realms that you want habit. And you will get a preview of coming attractions. Yeah, wow. Hey, we got through two pages today while we're cooking. Awesome. Again, because this stuff is so rich. And yeah, once we get out of this, I'm trying to see. Yeah, once we get out of this really kind of deep, deep section like I see on page 61. We enter the Dharma wills and stuff like that. We're gonna click through this with a little bit more rapidity. But right now again, indulge me I don't want to race through this stuff. There's just so much here so I'm going to turn will pick up here a whole lot a rejection of consciousness next time. Um, couple questions did come in. And then if you have a question or a contribution, anything that you may want to share, welcome to do so. But let me get these. Two of them came in. They're a little bit lengthy, so I'll do my best to get through these so from Matt, I have a question about how we're whether the barter teachings can be squared with the accounts of hospice workers and also with ports of nd ease. Okay, back well, right off the bat. It's a long question. Good one. I wrote a little bit like you do in terms of like, comparative whatever, like, how does this size up? Well, here's one thing that I want to share with you. I heard I did this program with a guy, Bob Thurman a couple of years ago, big online thing. And one of the people that we were presenting with was Deepak Chopra. I actually liked this guy. I mean, like, like, does he really care? Like, I mean, that's a kind of an arrogant statement, right? So I'm striked out from the record. He gave this amazing talk. He ran a you riff for maybe 50 minutes. And he was he was going it was basically talking about how big the universe was. And talking about, you know, using data from astrophysics and just like, how many billions of stars and trillions of I mean, it's just I think it was just big, big, big was really another for a while saying, Where is he going with this? What is he doing here? And what he did at the end it was so skillful is he basically was able to wrap down
his ref, saying that basically all these different views from all these different traditions. The Universe is big enough to accommodate these. Were we to say that the Buddhist version is the only version right? And there's, there's this feast. This banquet is big enough for the Jewish version and the Christian version and the NDP. And so I roll the way you do, Matt, I am super interested in like, how does this compare to this to this to this, but on one level, boy, why should they all compare? I mean, one of the things that's interesting about the Bardot's is nothing is fixed. That's what makes the Bardos challenging. Nothing is fixed. And so a near enemy have these really articulated teachings in the Bardo schema, eight stages of this and the four stages of that and the 12 stages of that. Well, the near enemy of our articulation is reification you take the map to be so bloody real and that's a danger. That's where the beauty of these teachings can really slap you in the face and backfire. So with that said, I will share a couple of things, but to me right off the bat, why should they be the same? Really, why should they? This is a really rich question. This is a really so I'm not dismissing it at all. Regarding the first it is very well known in the hospice community that people near death often report that they are seeing and having conversations with that friends and relatives. Yes, I've seen this many times myself. People who are often long dead absolutely, positively. By the way, if you're with somebody and they're doing that, do not challenge them. Do not bring them back to your so called Reality. Just say just say, Wow, that's really interesting. Tell me what you're saying. Instead of no snap out of it. That's not what happening. Don't do that. support them in whatever is taking place. Be curious. Oh, wow. You're saying something. I remember being with people and say, Oh, I'm seeing I'm seeing some some beings at the end of the hallway there. And I'm going oh, wow, that's really cool. What do they look like tell me what what are you seeing instead of like, No, you and I are loosening that we'll do that. It is hard to see how this phenomena is consistent with the Bartlett teachings are the idea of reincarnation more generally? Well, not necessarily. Because we'll meet let me finish what you say here. Would this be dismissed by Tibetan Buddhism as mere hallucinations? Well, hopefully Buddhism isn't arrogant enough to just dismiss most things but yes, with that said, Matt, it could be a hallucination. But hey, this is a hallucination, do you? And the LSAT said so beautifully? Reality is a consensual hallucination. This is a hallucination man. That's just a hallucination. This is really interesting, a hallucination and reference to what in order to even upend the label hallucination. You have to have a reference that you can then look upon label the experience as a hallucination, which of course is then a pejorative, right? They may be saying something more real you may be living in the in the frozen hallucination. So can you say that me me hallucinations? I don't know. Who's going to tell you that maybe this we're living in hallucination? Could they be Buddhas and bodhisattvas and disguise Absolutely. Why not? Could they be just projections hallucinations of their own mind? Sure. Why not? What's the problem? Where's the problem here? I would love to hear some explanations for nd so here's one thing you should listen to Matt. If you haven't already, this is I love this topic, man. So I'm not in any way. Criticizing or dismissing anything you're saying this is really juicy. Listen to the two recordings I did on edge of mind with my dear friend, Sean Espeon Hargens this guy's brilliant. We spent like five hours over two interviews talking about his brilliant paper and now with several books coming out and Exos studies and his absolute Shakespeare genius level exposition of what he calls the ontology matrix. Oh my gosh, if we had more time, if I was going to rewrite this book, this would be a core aspect of the book. This is a really big deal. Because what Shawn talks about in his paper and Weber's actually included in the end of I think the first podcast on my edge of mind platform, you should read it. Because what Shawn articulates there is that when we ask the question, basically what you're asking here fundamentally is what's real, right? What's real? Well, what Shawn does with such elegance is that's not the right question. The right question is what kind of real? What kind of real? Because if it's phenomenological display, it's real. But why does it have to be real in the physical sense? And so what Shawn does in a brilliant way using a grid going from gross to subtle to super subtle. On one axis, the other axis has to do with what's called substance stations and sovereignty. Like where where's this particular display coming from? of sovereignty, what level of agency does it have and the substance what degree of so called a materiality physicality does it have? And so if you play with his grid, I invited that he insert a fourth dimension of temporality. So now you have another axis. Now you have a really elegant way to look at ontology at what is real. So the question isn't Is it real? The question is, what kind of real is it and we tend to put our ontological This is purely a developmental issue. This is ego tends to put its reality hat or all its eggs in there and the reality basket of that which is the grossest and the most physical and has the most agency. That is pure hubris. That's just ego that's where science rolls. So read this read, read his paper on exhale studies. I think the title is called Wild Cosmos with a K. And then check out these these two interviews I did with this guy. It's really really rich stuff. mind bending. As for nd ease, yes, yes, we have nd ease and OBS near death experiences and out of body experiences. We have those all the time, by the way. You know, it's like in terms of OB ease, it's like James Joyce said one of his characters Mr. Duffy lived a short distance from his body. What a great line. We're always having OB ease. Whenever we leave our body and FedEx our mind or awareness into our mind, we're actually having a type of out of body experience but with that tongue in cheek thing behind me as for near death experiences, I believe you mentioned once that the off reported life review occurs at the fourth stage of the dissolution. That's what the tradition says yes. But not doesn't have to be exclusively but that's what the tradition does. Say. But also what about reports of disembodied consciousness is being able to observe everything going on after the body is clinically dead? Yeah, this is like on why not? It's all over the place. This happens all the why? Because this is the important thing. The reason we think this can't happen and this is super important. Is because we somehow think that consciousness is reducible to brain and body and matter and then when brain and body and matter disappear, consciousness disappears, no consciousness cannot disappear. These consciousness is the fabric of reality. What may temporarily disappear at the moment of death is meta consciousness, consciousness mind itself cannot disappear. It's the only thing there really is. That never ends. What does end temporarily is what's called meta consciousness, meta awareness. Metacognition, that's what does and so the fact that this happens, my God this is just as this is the way it should be in the world is made of mind this is consistent with the content, the continuation of consciousness, of course, it's consistent because that's all there is. So the question here is not the question of consciousness. The question is the continuation of meta consciousness. That's the question but this is not an experience that would seemingly be taking place if we looked at how the stages of dissolution and the Bardo of dying are presented. I disagree with you there. That's not actually true. Because what we're again, certain point after there's so much to say here, Matt, but that's that's something I would not agree with. If anything, it sounds more like an experience from the Bardo, becoming. Any thoughts on these questions would be much appreciated. Yeah. So here, we're in this this is what makes this stuff so bloody interesting. You're in this incredibly liminal space on the Bardot's where the dissociation that you think is who you are becomes associated, that's what's going to fundamentally happen. The dissociation is going to end but it doesn't do so all at once. It kind of pulsates kind of this is what makes everything challenging in the Bardot's is because nothing is fixed, everything is coming apart. But if you can witness everything and be aware of this, it's a non issue. So from us from the outside, it can be very helpful yes to have some of these articulations I'm not dissing anything that you're saying here along that lines. But fundamentally, from a larger kind of mind view of reality. None of this is whatsoever a problem. It only becomes a problem for the dying person or those around him who feel that it should be a certain way, or that there has to be some kind of, you know, reference to consensual reality. That's the only reason that becomes a problem. So great question in math. There was one more another guy, these are big ones, sorry.
Okay, here's the other one. From Patrick, what are the best prayers to do for those who have passed away? Depends on your tradition, my friends. We're going to spend a ton of this ton of time on this in the latter part of this book. Where I will go through in quite some detail all the traditional recommendations from this tradition. But for you, the prayer that has the deepest heartfelt connection to you, if you have a particular liturgy or recitation or prayer that really opens your heart and opens your mind, then that's the best one. That's the best one, right? There are suggestions from this tradition, and if they happen to speak to you go for it. If they don't know these are basically carriers. These are basically fingers pointing to particular states of mind that you want to cultivate. The prayer itself doesn't do it. What does it is what the prayer evokes in you, which is a particular type of quality of mind and heart. So you want to really the best thing Patrick is is a prayer that opens your heart that allows you connect in that regard. Whatever does that that's the best. One, what's the best way to honor their spirit love them and just honor their spirit? That's the best way just love them. You said the 4090 rule was not written in stone. Nothing is written in stone. That's what makes it so tricky. In a certain sense. And that's why these maps can sometimes shrink wrap the territory and they backfire. Just because they say 49 days, every teacher will tell you that's just like, like more or less. And where do they get that data? I don't know. I mean, some enlightened being came back and filed this travelogue I can't contest it, but I also can't prove it. 14 ideas not written in stone. It's definitely not. Is it possible for our soul spirit to stay in this ghost Bardo stage for lifetimes? Well, it depends on what you mean by lifetime Patrick, they can stay a person can get lost. Just like we're lost in samsara. A person can get lost in one of these what are called Gandharvas stages or go stages in the western languaging. Yes, they can get stuck there. And then we can help them how long they're going to be there. I don't know. Very rare in very rare instances in eternity. No. That won't happen. Because sooner or later something's gonna bump them. Can karma be like an anchor and cause a soul to get stuck there in that bottle for a long time? Ah, yeah, I wouldn't look at it that way. You know, again, karma is another one of these massive topics, right? We use it in a colloquial sense. It's like well, everybody knows what karma is right? We all what goes up comes down, that kind of thing. Karma along with emptiness is the most sophisticated complex concept. In all of Eastern thought, not just Buddhism, karmic theory. It said only a Buddha fully understands karma. So when we talk about karma, everybody knows what karma is. Hardly anybody knows what it is. It's super profound. It's super complex. It's super subtle. So can karma be you know, I geez, like what aspect of karma are you talking about? This is a massive polygamous term, multi Vaillant term. That includes a ton of tributaries. Do you see that I see the movie success. Yes, I did. I liked it often before the appear the room gets very cold so you can see the breath in the room right? Is this temporary? Shift made up? Yes. It's made up by very skillful people in Hollywood. I've never experienced that. Sometimes they do feel the cold breath of the Lord of Death Yama on my neck. I like that because that reminds me. But this is just sensationalism. But again, can I say with total authority? I don't know. It's not part of my experience. I think they just made it up because it smells good. But I can't say for sure. Or do the Wisdom Teachings talk about a similar cold sensation. No, not that I'm aware of or feeling when there's a dead person around well feeling for sure. But why should it be cold? The feeling might come back into maybe a warm loving caress and maybe a warm loving Why does it have to be cold and creepy? It could be warm and loving right? Feeling another presence of that person? Oh my gosh. Yeah. All the time. interoception proprioception heightened psychic capabilities. You know when you're a dissociative boundary. I'll talk more about that later. When you start to open. You become much more available to these sorts of things. It's no longer a big deal. Do the wisdom traditions talk about any other signs in the physical world that that Ghoster spirit is still around? Yes, they're a boy they want Yes. The wisdom traditions do talk a lot about that as do the shamans, some artistic traditions. But fundamentally, here's the deal, my friend. They're always around. We're swimming in a sea of sentience we're swimming in an ocean. William James talked about this every sensitive person will tell you this. You're not alone. We're swimming in a sea of sentience some of its malevolent most of its benevolent. And if we open our hearts and minds and drop our boundaries and guard in more associate, you know you'll you'll realize you're never alone in these these these forces are everywhere. They're just magnificent. They're all over the place. They manifest in countless different ways. But this one, I'm going to let go Patrick, just because this is so much to say here. And I probably ought to let it run for now. So if there are I'm going to go through the chat column if there are any questions. Feel free to raise your hand but let me go through here. Alyssa, do you see something I should look at? Yeah,
I can read them to you. Yeah. Okay. So the first one says, are we controlling our mind with practices like metta, low John slogans and Tong Lin would these be referred to as a skillful means?
Oh, absolutely. 100%. Yes. And again, it's a you know, when we talk about controlling mind, this is a very interesting one, right? We bring we bring all our particular definitions and predispositions around this term. So control for many people means you know, you're just like no, harness everything in and control it. Yeah, that's one definition. But I actually prefer what Suzuki Roshi says about mind control. Lovely where he says, you know, when you want to control a herd of cattle, you don't put them in a corral you give them a pasture. So basically, the type of control mind control we're talking about here is is controlling your mind with space. So it's not just like muscular, you know, type a I've got everything under control. No, it's more like your mind and heart is so big that you basically the the mind controls itself. Because what happens is things just arise, they become a go, there's so much space, so it's control in that way. Okay? That's important. Otherwise, it's like, Oh, I gotta concentrate the beans out of this. No, no, no. Open open. Okay, what's the next one?
The next one says, question, be aware. Be aware of where we perceive aid the grasping. I would also add strong emotion submit around the thought of another form of attachment.
Totally, but I don't see the question what timestamp When did he come in?
See now I gotta go back and find it to timestamp. 647 Okay,
let me look here Yeah, from Chris. Be aware of where we are separate. Yes, the grasping. I would also I would, I would add also strong emotional cement around the thought of another form of attachment. Yes. 100%. Agree. Yes. Perfect. Oh, here's one from Gail let me get this one from Gail. I can read this one. An angry negative non practitioner fan has advanced ALS. Oh, I'm so sorry. And would like to stay as aware as possible during his transition. What would you recommend for him? Well, you know, first of all, Gail. I think you were in the PDP, maybe point out that wonderful film that Tori made on ALS. And then the two podcasts we did with her. This is a beautiful being that was in our Preparing to die group last fall, who ended up doing the medical aid and dying she took her life in December 7 But before she did that, previously, she made this really beautiful, haunting film. 30 minutes long. She did that in the early stages of her diagnosis and then during a program I had the chance to interview her and twice and share, you know, bring out some of her really beautiful wisdom so I might recommend, that is a way to least gain an introduction to this. Okay, go. Yeah. All right. What else do we have here?
So when one says would you recommend a book that describes 27 realms? Of pure lands? Yes,
I would. Um Oh, jesus around the corner there's
there are several different volumes in the title is escaped me. One is by Lopez from the University of Michigan. But there are several books that deal with the three main puroland sutras in the Buddhist tradition, the longer sukawati sutra the shorter Sukabumi sutra and the visualization, meditation sutra. That's where all the Pureline teachings fundamentally derived. And in those commentarial books, which they escaped me escaped me off the tear that I have to go outside my library and pull them out. They go through these these these realms, these 27 states. The other place to look at this is through the Abhidharma, Kosha 1600 pages of Vasu bon Dieu translated in French, that they also go through those domains is a big topic, but other puroland texts. Those are the ones that come and again, I apologize I don't have those titles at that tip of my tongue right now, but there are at least two volumes for sure. That go through all three of the sutras and talk about these. Here's here's one big way up here that we both forgot about from Chris Darwin, Andrew, so when you are speaking and we are listening on one level subject object distinctions, for sure, for sure. But on another level, it is self speaking to self high five spot on. So on a relative level. Yes, we have this sense that I'm in here and you're out there and it's conventional and it works sort of, um, yes, subject object relationship. But on another level, yes. Basically, we're just talking to each other. Literally, we're talking to ourselves, I shouldn't say so. Yeah, Spider Man. That's really nice. We're basically you know, here's here's a really wonderful way of looking at the whole bloody shebang. So you have two eyes right now go ahead and close one I was one I will look at your world. So this this eye looking from from let's say, it's your right eye, your left eyes closed. My right eyes open. Chris. This is me. Right now. Close. your right eye open your left eye. Chris, that's you right behind both of those is what Unitary awareness. So imagine the infinite field of subjectivity. So imagine we had you know how many billions are there on this planet? Imagine that you had, you know, a couple billion eyes. That's what's going on. It's one infinite field of subjectivity. rigpa mind at large, whatever you want to call it, basically radiating through all these particular dimensions of experience. So this is why we're all the same. At the deepest levels. We are the same. Not only are we cut from the same cloth, we are the same cloth. Yeah, so that's really nice. Okay, Alyssa, sorry, I cut you off what?
Okay, the next one says, Would it be accurate slash safe to say that how we react to death in a dream is a decent predictor of how we will react to our waking death? Yes,
yes. What is found that was found them exactly right. So this is why what is the moniker for Dream Yoga, the measure of the path so Yes, yep. Sean, you you're in from Bertie, Sean, S H au N SPR and II s BJO uma AR n slash Hargens. H AR Ge N s is a dear dear friend and he is brilliant. In his book on Exos his book his paper on XR studies is just amazing. Yeah, if we can put up there's ask for the link to the podcast elicited you can put that up for edge of my it's just it's literally call it edge of mind.com. And if you go back maybe a year or so again, I did these two interviews with him. Super fun. Okay, go ahead, Alyssa.
Okay, I had one that came just to me. It says how can Milarepa become enlightened if he killed in the same lifetime? Would he not continuing since samsara due to his actions? Yeah,
this is this is why the life of Millerite was so inspirational. Because, you know, he killed 37 depending on which account 3537 People with black magic. At a certain point, he realized he woke up and said, Boy, I'm some deep karmic doodoo. Really, you know, in trouble and so he realized I needed to do something about this. And so fire in his belly, to put it mildly, you know, and they studied with his teacher Marpa, who basically put him through living hell, for I don't know how many years brought him to the brink of suicide, all the while just purifying, purifying, purifying, purifying, and then he went to retreat for 12 years and endure 12 years of super, I mean like legendary, hardship, purifying, purifying, purifying, and basically through the strength of his conviction, his determination, his heart, he purified the deleterious effects of all that heavy karma. It can be done and therefore he's recognized and by all the traditions is the exemplar of attaining enlightenment in one life. So this means it's all workable. Okay, what else do we have left and ICL? There? I'll get that in a second. Okay,
the next one is why is it that disembodied mind body cannot see the sun and
well because the sun and the moon are basically projections and constructs of this of this physical dimension to the so called physical dimension, right? You can't see a sun in the moon in your dreams, can you? Can you? There isn't one in there. Right. And so some of the phenomenal display of what takes place here. Right, doesn't take place in these other dimensions, if I'm understanding your question properly. So why is the disembodied mind cannot see the sun and the moon? Yeah, I would need to know our Meet a little bit more specifically, what you're referring to here. The question is, is suggestive, but it's not completely articulate to me, but that's what comes to mind. Okay, anything else before I get to I'll lay
one more in the chat. Okay. Does think karma allow the possibility of discriminative wisdom? Therefore discriminative wisdom can only arise within free will.
Well, are you talking about when you say just go into wisdom? Are you talking about discriminating awareness wisdom. And again, karma doesn't you know, karma doesn't rule the roost. It doesn't supersede the possibility of anything. So if you're if you're having these, again, if you're talking about discriminative wisdom, I assume from Das, you're talking about discriminating awareness, wisdom. Well, that that awareness, wisdom, it's mutually exclusive when that awareness was the most fully operative that can only only operate with the temporary like the clouds separate. That's what brings about the wisdom. And so if you're fully embodied embedded in a karmic display, then that wisdom is inherent latent, buried within it, but it's not on stage because the clouds are kind of covering over that's the karma. But the discrimination discriminating awareness wisdom, which is one of the five principle wisdoms when when there's a so called gap in the karma because those wisdoms underlie even karma itself, then those wisdoms that they don't rise, they're always there. Then they're revealed. And so this whole freewill thing. I mean, guys, this is such a big topic read Robert Sapolsky his latest work or read Sam Harris read? Yeah, free will is an illusion. First of all, who is Will is free? I mean, right there you can bust it. Right right there is broken. You have no free will. Why? Because there's no you. That alone destroys it. That alone destroys it. And then you can go to other more secondaries. I wouldn't say sophisticated but other descriptions. You have no free well on that level because there's no you. So whose will is free? It's an illusion. Okay, Alejandro, thank you for waiting. Come on board. My friend. Unmute yourself.
Oops. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello, Andrew. So, so good to see you in a while. How
are you? It's been a while I know. I'm Ah, so many things are going through my mind right now. I'm coming out of COVID right now. And I was thinking that I was doing the pandemic that actually discover you with this series of three videos for turning obstacles into opportunities. So I'll be I've tried to be quick. So many things I like to ask but I know time this
doesn't exist. We have to respect it. Yes.
So um, I want to ask about resentment once how these mechanisms work in the mind when somebody hurts us. I have detected that these thoughts come back almost with a live from in its own right. Very often I can find myself like turning around and like where are you are like leave me alone. You know enough. Like, you know, I'm sorry. Sorry. Um, you know, and they carry on and they carry on and this is maddening. Really and and they just don't stop you know, it's some wondering because it's so a lot of times I say, Hey, I heard you the first time right. You're not to the to the thought. I would say like I heard you the first time right and but they'll they'll come back and then and again. So what is it in this ill will resentment. I know it's karma. Mental karma. But what else is there? I don't know. That's my question. You
say okay, that's a good one. So only when you say is it okay if I call you Ali by the way is that alright? So when you talk about it well and resentment are you talking about the Ill Will and resentment coming from your side? Or from the person who delivered the seemingly offensive, whatever on my side and your side? So, yeah, so you know, one thing again, you can't hear here's the wonderful thing about this tradition, and there's there's several ways to work with this. One way and both of these are valid, one conventional way, which I'm not dismissing it at all, is to work with conventional therapy. I do this without hesitation. I mean, like, I don't hesitate for a second to see a therapist. If there's a particular issue that's intractable. There's just like I'm really stuck. There's lots of different skillful means. And so we have to really acknowledge the broad spectrum of skillful means that are available to us in situations like this, but since we're talking more or less than a so called spiritual context, let's talk a little bit more about like what's happening now because it's valid and as beautiful as these traditional approaches are, especially with things like trauma, when you have really deep early stage trauma buried in your in your body, that's going to be around for a while that could take some real trauma work and that sort of thing. I'm not dismissing that at all. But let me just tell you one thing. I was just working with a therapist last week, and it was a new person. And just like with every other one, I have to chuckle I go in there. I had one entire session, which was basically about you know, tell me about your childhood, completely valid. And so I should have brought a recorder you know, and it's like, okay, here it is. I'm not dissing it. She needed to have a context. But let me tell you this. I've had probably 20 3040 different interviews with meditation masters over my life, not a single one has ever said, Tell me about your childhood. And by this what I mean is you can work with this in a more immediate way. By controlling just like I was talking about earlier, controlling your relationship to whatever is arising and so therefore you can work with a quality of ill will and resentment from your side. And always understand this is a this is actually a big deal. For the ego, something bad is better than nothing. Let me say that again. For the ego, something bad is better than nothing. And so what can happen at a really interesting, deep, psycho spiritual level is there. There's this kind of internal conflict of interest going on there as part of your identity that's asking this question and that wants to be free of this kind of hassle. But there's still this lower end spectrum of your identity that's invested in this because at least it's something and so what happens here is the ego has a pathological investment, sometimes in its pathologies and its traumas and its storylines. Why? Because it gives the ego something to press against. And that's what actually keeps the ego alive. So with that said, again, you can work with this in a wonderful integral approach. I recommend that but from a so called spiritual approach, the recommendation is is allow your mind to be as open as it possibly can allow these phenomenal arisings to come up. And then basically, just don't pay attention to them. Now this doesn't mean you reject them, it doesn't mean that they're somehow bad. It means that you hit the mute button on them. So it's a little bit like this. Let me tell you this story. This actually impacted me like two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, I can't remember when and this ongoing nightmare for somebody nightmares. I can't remember when this one was when we had the big supreme court hearings with Brett Kavanaugh in the United States. You may have heard about it. You know, it captured the nation you know, here he was on on the Supreme Court actually in Congress. So you know, basically salivating and spewing and spitting it was it was just like, it was just unbelievable. And like everybody else for a little while. You know, I said, Well, this is this is interesting and it kind of sick way. And then one day what happened Ali was was he's up there ranting, celebrating and spilling and spitting all over the place and I was kind of getting into it. And then something happened and I just reached over and I hit the mute button. I grabbed my control. There's a control thing and I muted him, changed everything. There he was. He was actually became comical. There. He was Sliwa spitting and slobbering and everything. But all the power was taking away why? Because I was no longer listening to him. And to me, this was like, Whoa, this is kind of like, cool. I can hit the mute button on my mind. Now that doesn't mean I'm not honoring that arising. If I don't honor the arising, I'm repressing it. And if I repress it, it's just going to be cycled in my unconscious mind. But here's the deal. I guarantee you this, my friend. You keep letting it come up. You don't feed it. Feel it, but don't feed it. You know, you're feeding it. When you're starting to create a storyline. You start to whip up this narrative on the storyline that goes back and over and over. You're inserting an IV you're doing CPR on an emotional state that if you just leave it alone is DOA. It's going to die. You're the one that's keeping it alive by relating to it in this grasping wave. So what you do and I guarantee this is going to happen you let it come up, let it come up the hole, listen to it. Don't pay attention to it. Just let it come up and you know it's going to happen. It's going to eventually wear out because it's just a habit pattern. It's gonna get softer, it's gonna get less frequent. And eventually it's just going to peter out into silence. And you'll notice it doesn't have the same force. It doesn't have the same power. It doesn't have the same clarity. It's dying on the vine, because you're no longer feeding it. See. So I think if you do that on my friend, it's work. And you'll also realize that part of you is going to be like the soap opera part. That's going to say, well, you know, I'm not so sure I want to do this. Ah, that's revelatory. Then why are you keeping this thing alive? I'm not doing therapy here. So please understand, I don't know you. I'm just telling you that very often that lower bandwidth over identity has a perverse investment in keeping the crap show alive. Because at least it has something to wrestle with. I highly recommend read the book of my friend, Bruce Tift already free though. This is your homework assignment. Already Free by Bruce Tift. He talks about this in tremendous detail, and the subtitle is where Buddhism meets psychotherapy on the path of liberation. Bruce is a longtime 40 year meditator 40 year counselor and his work in this area is brilliant. And he will bust our chops and show us how we are invested in our struggles because it actually maintains the perverse egoic strategy. Okay.
Yeah, so sorry about that. I just a call was breaking in. Just the soul. This is all related to indulging in suffering. That's
right. What was me? Yep. Yep. So just take a look at yeah, see if it lands for you. If not thrown out the window. But really, I highly, highly recommend. I also interviewed Bruce on my edge of mind podcast maybe three years ago. Read his wonderful, wonderful book already free. It's going to really help you with the scoring that kind of thing. Okay. So thanks everybody. Remember if what we're doing here is not a benefit to others. It's irrelevant. Do not forget that dedicate the merit. That means anything to you send it to all sentient beings. And you know where to find me. I'll be back in a couple of weeks. Until then, nice to see everybody. Thanks for joining us and take care. Like Lester Holt says, Take care of yourself and each other. I like that that's not bad. Okay, everybody, bye bye. recording stopped
