Leading Through Seasons of Change at Your Organization - Aila Malik

5:42PM Sep 10, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Aila Malik

Keywords:

organization

people

vision

feel

community

nonprofit

journey

moment

leadership

equity

transparency

world

alumni

mission

love

podcast

intentionality

build

create

consultant

Hey, I'm john. And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast.

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve

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So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Becky, you're good and

I am printing. I mean, we've had over a year to interview people and you've made extraordinary humans but I have met someone that we are having on the podcast. We've all met her who is like knock your socks off amazing. Someone we just look up to so much for the way that she shows up in the world. So it has met in clubhouse. Thank you, Lindsey Simon's for connecting us, but it's like we feel like we know her because we have visited so often on clubhouse, but it is our great honor and privilege to introduce Eileen Malik. She is the principal amazing founder of insure leadership consulting, and she's the Triple Threat unicorn. She's an attorney. She's a nonprofit executive. She is a massively good human. And so you put all that together, she is this amazing changing Jen she the way she talks about leadership. And empowerment is something I have not ever seen before. In our sector. There are a lot of people that teach leadership, there's a lot of people that teach luminary leadership. eila is at another level, she is steeped in empathy with the way that she talks, she has always got her head focus squarely on what is the thing that we can do to keep justice and equity at the forefront of what we're doing. It's basically all the things we love most in this world. So I love Welcome to our show. We're so glad you're here. Can you tell?

Oh my gosh, I can I take I'm going to try to get the snippet of that intro and just carry it around on a bad day. This is Thank you. That was such a beautiful intro. And I'm so happy to be I love the name we are for good is enough, because it's simple. And it's what it's all about. And I'm so excited to be here with both

of you. Well, you've heard every bit of that because that is how you show up and live. And I I'm just so curious. And I've been wanting to ask you this question for months. What is your story? Talk to me about your journey, talk about growing up and how you were raised and the things that were important to you that have led you to this moment right now.

Wow, how much time do you have? Six hours? Six part series?

You know? Yeah, we'll do part one, part two. And, you know, the the abridged version is so I come from a family of immigrants. My parents were from Pakistan came from Pakistan in the 70s to the country. And I was an only child up until I was about 1415 years old. And then my dad remarried and I have a beautiful, amazing sister. And my so my journey though I'm first generation American Californian born my journey as an immigrant journey. And so I grew up, you know, with immigrant mentality around relationship to money and around drive and from an from an Asian standpoint around education and the value of education. But without the privilege of people who knew how to navigate the US college system or school or understand, you know, how to be the parent that I tried to be with, with my kids, right. And while my family was a product of a lot of love, which I'm so grateful for, but while they they did the very best they could they struggled with their own issues. And so my parents split when I was, you know, a baby, and my mom had severe bipolar schizoaffective disorder, very severe. And I was her caretaker for most of my, I guess, the psychological term as parental FIDE child. So I became her caretaker around age 10, in many ways, and then my dad side, suffered with a lot of different substance journeys. And so I think I came, I say all that not to disparage my ancestors and my parents because I think they are amazingly resilient. Teach For me, but it is a little bit of an insight to, for me, my strategy has been about caring about the love and spreading the love and building community and stability wherever I could to be able to navigate the world. And so in that spirit, went to law school, went to undergraduate not knowing what I was going to do, and saw the movie Erin Brockovich said, Oh yeah, I want to be her. Eric Rodman went to law school to do that and got really angry first day of law school in a criminal justice introductory class talking about crack cocaine versus powder cocaine and sentencing differences versus who was using them and affluence differences and, and really understanding systemic inequity from day one. And my trajectory changed. And I spent about 15 years working with juvenile justice, youth incarcerated youth and building programs around that. Another couple of years working with incarcerated lifers and adults, and really understanding what their journey is with with pain and with trauma and with separation. did a little bit of asylum, legal representation in my in my law school journey, and then got passionate about nonprofits? If we want to talk about scale and equity and justice? How do we help the great organizations in our, in our country and in the world? How do we get them to be more effective and better at what they do? And so here I am. Somewhere in there, I have three kids and married my high school sweetheart.

Does everyone understand now why byla is so extraordinary. Now, you know,

and I just feel like, I'm just so excited that we can just spend this time with you today. Because the empathy that has come from your story, despite man, this the pieces that I hear that are just serving alongside some of the most challenging missions, having one of the most difficult childhood situations that I've heard to being a parent to parents, I just think that you have been, you know, we honor our journeys and a lot of our passionate work. And we love talking to people that have channeled that passion, their unique story into something really meaningful. And I just see that in you, I see you stepping into seasons of change in organizations. And I've always I'll be completely honest, when I lead talks on clubhouse, I feel intimidated, because she's so smart, and so wise. But it's always done in such compassion that you can't be intimidated, like you're the most. But I think they have an ability to step into a really difficult situation, and illuminate a path. And so I'd love for you to talk about organizations navigating change, what is your approach? How do you walk into these organizations? And what's the journey that you take people on

it? Well, first of all, john, thanks for the the witness, I think my own journey, and my ability to find voice and purpose and passion has come from, from the witness of of people saying, hey, that, you know, that is a story or that is great, or we're you know, we see a hardship for me growing up that there was no hardship to be seen, it was just how it was right. And so I find a lot of power and witness. And that is, that is the the the number one ethos of how we enter into organizations. So let me just backtrack a tiny bit to say, you know, it's not lost on me that there's some kind of issue and journey that I've been having with separations and immersion. And what I mean by that is, given the childhood background that I told you about I have, I have left, you know, sort of lead with stability, whether that's marrying the high school sweetheart, whether that staying at the same job for 1415 years, right, like always in a stability, stable path. And what came up for me through that stability was there that there's a fear of, of abandoning, or a fear of separation or a fear of, you know, changing a relationship or a context. And so in my journey to better understand that at the micro level, it's not lost on me that I have made a career out of entering into organizations that are in really difficult situations, being a witness Tat, and being a guide around, hey, let's use the gift of departure. It's a known thing, let's use the gift of departure, to motivate and drive change together in partnership, and I won't abandon you after we depart. It's just going to look different and that that opening has transformed my life. And it's really the ethos that we leave with organizations. So that's the that's the micro like the esoteric version. But I want to answer like with with tactical things, for your for your listeners. So the biggest way that we enter organizations and seasons of change is around a place of humility. You know, we don't we are not the experts, the people that co created this organization, the community that's that this organization serves are the experts. So we are here to learn from everything that has gotten you to this moment. It's an honor everything that has been exactly the right move. We're not going to Monday morning quarterback, what has gotten us to this to this moment? We honor it, we enter with humility. And we enter with curiosity. What what has to be true for things to be the way that they are? What was the value that underpins this process? And then we start saying, we, we are we get the permission to use the word we. And we and, and we build, we build a partnership. So great. Let's say let's, let's imagine where we want to be. How do we want to serve young people or current constituencies? What does this next evolution or inflection point look like? look like. So it's, it's humility, it's honoring its curiosity. And then really partnering, and rolling up our sleeves together. So that there's not it's not like, you got to do this, you've soccer, you know, you sink or swim. We're gonna do this together and co create this next, this next moment for the organization? And what an honor what an amazing opportunity for us all, you know,

please, please let this be the consulting 2.0 that everyone starts to embrace moving forward. Okay, I want everyone listening right now, because who has an a consultant in their nonprofit, which has got to be just about everybody on those? Think about your consultant right? Now, I want you to picture the human or the company, ask yourself, did they enter immediately from a place of humility? Did they come in saying, we're here to learn from you? You are the experts, we're coming in with curiosity. And then the final piece is, which is something that we think is such a hallmark of the new era of fundraising is it's less about us asking you for something and more about how do we partner? Are they asking how are we going to partner together, because if you're not getting that from your consultant, I would say you need to be demanding that that is your expectation, because that is how everyone moves homogenously together, that means we're all in lockstep moving together working toward the problem that has got to disarm whatever the thing is, when you walk in I love when you walk in with that level of purpose and empathy. And that's what I think the differences with how you lead and you coach and how I've seen so many coach on leadership. So Bravo,

thanks. And I think it comes with a cost to the consultants that are listening, saying, okay, that's great. And the cost of that is scope creep. And, you know, I can't tell you how many organizations that we don't we don't do a scope, it's fixed fee, we're going to come in and work with you whenever we've got. And that's a risk that our firm that we take, as we don't even see ourselves as consultants, we see ourselves as a collective of practitioners. Right? And so, but but there and, you know, yes, over the course of the year, there's Pandora's box, you enter into an organization thinking that this is going to be the major strategic challenge. And in fact, everything's on fire. To get better at that, right. But, but but if we're really steeped in equity and justice, and we're really about, you know, none of us are about this for the transactional pay, or I have no love for strategic planning. I'm good at it. I don't I don't love it like I am. I am. Yeah, I am about equity and justice. And then through homelessness and education, equity, and through juvenile justice or regular justice or, you know, workforce, whatever your whatever it is, like, how is it that you know, how is it we push through together for everyone's highest and greatest use to be in that moment it forward in a cause that we all believe in? You know,

I think this whole thing could be exactly put on a new leader, GM coming in into an organization to I know, you kind of help bridge in gaps of leadership, right, that there's there could be an organization, there's been turnover, and they need some kind of leadership in that gap of time. And

you're currently sitting in one of those roles right now. Aren't you an interim? Yeah,

spinning so many plates. I just think the posture at which a new person walks in, we've all seen it go really badly, you know, and I think the the tenor that you set those three hallmarks, just completely changes the tone, the toxicity of the culture, that fear, the psychological safety of employees, everything. So that that's just a very, very powerful. Yeah, three,

I I'm really curious about like this navigating seasons of change. And I think that there I think probably everyone who's listening, anyone who's experienced going through COVID, you know, in the workplace in a nonprofit, I would love for you to just talk about what are some key steps for a leader that stepping into a new role, you know, or staff or board or others who are involved in your mission, what would you say to suggest how they can help kind of navigate this season with intentionality and having that heart for community at the center of it?

Yeah, I mean, the first thing I'd say to my colleagues that are in this space is, you know, hats off. This has been for me, the big Guest leadership lesson of a lifetime right leading the pandemic and virtually and insurrection and violence and yeah, I mean, it has been It has been a ride. And I would just say hats off to all that have held that space. I think the tips. I'm sure everybody has, you know, most of your listeners will probably say, Yep, yep, yep to these three things, but I, they're just so true. And they're so simple. leaders have to over communicate in these periods. There's a lot of staff anxiety, there's a lot of unknowns, there's a lot of stakeholders and things. And so you know, that that need to over communicate the visibility, the the ability to be approachable, that really matters in periods of naive and change. This is crisis periods of crisis and long term inflection, right. And in a way that is still intentional and systemic. Because when it comes to racial reckoning, that's not a crisis and a moment in time, that's a movement. And so being able to know, okay, what are the movements? And what are the, what are the crisis in this moment, so that you can conserve your energy and be thinking about where do I need to be visible? And how do I communicate what I know and what I don't know. So I think the first is around, around communication, the communication is in service of transparency, which if you can put data and get some, some, some quick, you know, I call them you know, pulse check little data's data, sec sets of 10 questions and be able to share that broadly. Here's how people are feeling here's what the reaction is. I think that goes into that communication. We know that trip that transparency, builds trust, and when people don't know what's going on, they need to feel that they're in a trusted space. And they can't feel that way. If they feel that everything is Kumbaya or there's not enough communication or the leader doesn't, isn't leaning in. So I think, I think communication and transparency. And then I think it's creating containers of certainty. So with the next normal, post pandemic, things are changing daily, what the what organizations have to track or not track is changing daily. And so how do we create contains a certainty? to hold the uncertainty? So yeah, we don't know what what's happening in the next normal. But we're going to set up in calendar right now for you, every month, a next normal meeting. If we over communicate before then we'll release those meetings, but we're going to hold them as spaces for us to really discuss what's present. What is Cal OSHA saying? What are the feds saying what right? And so it's, it takes those kinds of techniques takes the extra mental strain off for staff, they just know that the organization is going to guide them. We don't know what it is, but we trust in the leadership. And if we have a problem, they'll let us know. I think those things are just essential for leaders. And if you're not a leader, that sort of leads that way with holding conflict holding unknown transparency. That means that means that things aren't going to be perfect, you're choosing you're choosing connection over perfection, you're choosing to be responsive over, you know over waiting for everything to be packaged. If that's not the leader that you typically show up as it's a great opportunity to lean in and learn more about what's getting in the way for you on that and how it feels.

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JOHN, I want to choose connection over perfection every time. I feel like Iowa is made for this moment. COVID because if you're someone at the heart who leads with stability, I mean, that's what everybody's looking for right now is they want to have some stability because everything is unknown. And so I love this hat coming in with a heart for understanding, wanting to be a good listener. I think the transparency is so key to not only the communication, but the leadership. These are excellent suggestions. You

know, I will say I will say the counter to it, Becky about the heart for connection and communication transparency is also being transparent about where the lines are with the mission. So we know when you're holding space in movement around racial reckoning or space in movement about fear of the pandemic and you're not clear about your own relationship to conflict and decision making and transparency, which in my mind is all conflict, you can get into this trap of trying to appease your staff, and really do a disservice to the mission. And so I think the one thing I'd add to that heart and that that truenorth as a leader is, we're here for a mission, and, and our staff is important. And all these moments are crazy. And I'm as a leader, not knowing what my next steps are, please give me grace, like, we're entering with this vulnerability and humility. But, um, but we're also being really clear about what this organization's responsibility and purpose is for our community, and whatever we're feeling our communities really feeling. And so how is it that that we can hold both of those those things and have clear boundaries in line? So I can't tell you how many conversations as transparent as it is that I've had where staff, you know, don't want to return back to meet with young people or they, they're really concerned about, you know, you know, what our equity statements are, or how it's played out and policies. And so how do you create the space where we're going to talk about and we're going to put process, we're going to be transparent about those. But then when a decision is made, absolutely, that decision should give people clarity to be at choice. But this is where the organization's going. And so that that part of it's really important to otherwise I think it gets unhealthy, pretty quick.

That's a perfect segue. Because last season, this kept coming up, we kept talking about dreaming big, and having this vision, and I just shared on the podcast is something that I go back and tell my old self is to be really attached to that vision statement that you've got and the mission. But the tactics, you've got to let loose the grip, like there is so many ways that we can accomplish these different things. I feel like you're an expert at translating vision into plans and getting people excited about those plans. What are some tips of doing that about really putting, you know, the practices in place where the team rallies around this big dreamy idea that you want to accomplish?

Yeah, I love that. Well, let me start by saying just some definitions, for me, strategy, or the playbook of the tactics is about being accountable to your intention, being accountable to that dream to that vision. So, you know, a strategic plan could be in the back of it of a napkin, it's about what how are you holding yourself accountable to your to your intention, your vision, your purpose, right? So for me, what has worked in our practice is, you know, the truth be told, for most of the organizations, we work with about 100 different organizations, right. And most of them, I could have mapped out a strategy sitting by myself for to hold them accountable to whatever their next iteration of the vision was. But that's not how you rally people. And that's not going to be sustainable within, it's not going to be picked up within their their context. So how you do it is building a very inclusive process, you're slowing down for the bigger traction have a sustainable plan towards that vision. And here's what I mean. There's two things that I look for. Number one, does every at the time of the final unveil, here's our bridge plan, or here's our here's our next dream, or here's our 2020 vision, whatever it is, Does every person that you're rolling it out, see a piece of themselves in that vision, right, my most successful vision pieces, or strategy, strategic point theory of change, whatever you call it has been when every board member and every executive team or whatever, however, the process was says, Oh, yeah, I wrote that part. Oh, that's that was my from my discovery that way. And and so everyone has to own a piece of that. And if and if you don't feel that, that's if you haven't arrived there, there needs to be more process and work and co ownership. That's the first thing. And the second thing I look for, is or Maxim that I repeat to myself, I want I roles, I want the data and evaluation to be like, Oh my god, we're talking about. Like, then I know I've arrived. So I want it to be so used in as like the, you know, the household sort of concept that people are just like, oh, here she goes again, about that vision and that plan. At that moment, I know that it is ingrained. And now we can start really making the pivots and the changes because the grief about letting go of our old way of doing things will be minimized by the fact that they know the exciting win and celebration, that's ahead, right. So those are the two things I look for and I don't move into major shifts or restructures, until I get the eye rolls. And until every person feels like, it wasn't the consultant, we could have done this because I see my stuff I see Erica's I see that, you know, I see those edits in this in this document. That's, that's, that's the arrival.

As a mother of a 11 year old girl, I have never met anyone who wants eye rolls, because I've had enough of them lately. But oh my gosh, this was the that was such an amazing visual because of everybody is so bought into the vision. If everybody is on board, and they see themselves as essential to executing the vision, then they're rolling their eyes because they know that well. And that is, and that is like a rotation. Yeah, like, I mean, people enjoy their job more they know their true north. Well, the Why is so clear. And it can be expressed by anybody who picks up the phone, who answers the door at our nonprofits who's getting on a call, we could literally all give the elevator speech by empowering teams in this way, I absolutely love this.

And Becky, that that kind of clarity and I will clarity, we'll call it right or, and, and granted, sometimes it's at the surface, and we have to keep going. But that that point of arrival. And when you have that kind of clarity, it forces action It forces decision making, you know, when you when you know that that a person believes that you know believes x, then you have to decide whether or not you're going to align with that person or not. I just saw on NPR, you know, for political from a political fundraiser a piece, Patagonia's pulling out of all of these ski resorts as an example, okay, when there's clarity of, of what how the ski resort sees specific GOP fundraising, then it allows freedom and choice for other people to align in or out. And that is a sign of a healthy culture. Because when you don't have that clarity, you have people who really feel that the organization owes you way more and that, you know, there's like, why am I here, I could be making more money elsewhere. And I can just do my job, I'll just do my head down that kind of morale breeds when there's not, there isn't that that that type of clarity. So the eye roll moment is the place that begins for people to feel like their choice, Okay, I see where the organization is going. I'm not, I'm not really feeling it, like I was, I was more of a grassroots girl. And now they're trying to do all this scale. And that's just not me. But I have a highest and best use and another startup organization, great because the world needs people who are aligned. But if you if you if it's gray, and we're not at the eyeroll moment, then people are kind of like I think this is about this issue area that I care about, I can think I'm aligned. And we're not allowing people to reevaluate their, their alignment to where the organization is headed.

And you just hit on something that I think is so important, we talk about it all the time. You can't even launch that vision if you don't know who you are. So if you have not sat down and had this value based conversation about what is true to us, what does this does this thread through who we are as human beings is the way we show up is this supporting the mission, then you can't even have your vision. So loving this conversation. And I just want eyelid to run for president that's what yourself I'm gonna I really I'm going to create a brand and a logo will build community it would be amazing. Okay, done. eila. You have such a gift for storytelling. I love this. Everything about the way that you thread your story in there. And I want to thank you, by the way for talking about bipolar and schizophrenia because I have a family member with comorbidity as well. I have a family member who suffers from alcoholism, I love that we're talking about these things because it does D stigmatize these issues. So I thank you for that. But I'm also curious, just about, you've had so many experiences and nonprofit in business, you've had a unique vantage point from where you're sitting in the crow's nest almost. And I'm curious if there's a story or a moment of philanthropy that has always stayed with you that you would be willing to share with us.

I know it right away. And the it hasn't been you know, there's some ego and excitement when you land that big strategic investment and that multi year multi million dollar thing and I love that. That feeling. It's a rush. It's it's adrenaline. It's excitement. It's right. And so, but those are actually my favorite philanthropic stories. The one that hits me most is we have one of the organizations that I work for. We have a junior board program for alumni from that organization to serve on the board for a period of three Renewable years if the alumni would like to renew, so it's one year term. And we recently launched a bridge plant of this strategic type of plan in this direction. And we asked the board for a three year pledge and a commitment. And the understanding has been that with our alumni members that they, you know, we don't necessarily need to get there, therefore, a lot of insight and sweat equity, and we don't necessarily need philanthropic gifts, and one of the junior alumni board members actually made a $500 gift per year for three years. And that, that was the most moving gift. And I and I can tell you what every organization when alumni has either been philanthropic with their investment, or with their mentorship, or with their talents. There's alumni who are VLC for all of our headshots, the one I've submitted for this podcast, they're done by alumni clients, right. And when they are at the place where they're giving back their talent and treasure, I am beyond moved. For me, that's full circle.

Oh, my goodness, I just love it so much. And I love that you've said the word alignment, I want to go back and just really kind of double click because I feel like this is a theme I keep seeing and people there's this great movement of the last year and a half of people kind of assess what their priorities are their passions. You said something of like the world needs you to be in alignment. And so the organizational level, I can see that if you just want to riff on that. I feel like I want to give it to you. Because I felt that when you said it.

Yeah. Oh, opening. I really believe that. JOHN, I really believe that. I believe that there is enough work to go around to co create a community that we want to live in, like, I want I want, we all want to live in a in a community, we want our kids, we want people that we love to care about to live in a community and we have to co create it. And there's so much work and so many ways to do that, that, that having that introspection on your highest and best use, what is that? What does that look like for you? beyond your organization? What is your personal mission statement? What is your personal vision, you know, and it can change. You know, my personal vision is around around authenticity and connection and is around building community. And the places I work are, are a method for me to achieve my vision. It's not that my vision is my organization's vision, it can be a lot of alignment, it can be really synergistic, but I know who I want to be in the world and where my highest and best use talents of CO creation are. So I want to find those places that I can align with an partner with and and connect with to advance to advance that that vision. And that's a personal vision. And there's something I think really frame when we realize that like we are more than anything we do, and we are more than any place we work. And in fact, we have a ton of need for our services and for ourselves and our human beings. And we are at choice with where we do that. So now the hard work is like what calls to you because there's there's enough of it, you know? Yeah, I feel passionately about that. So good. You can't tell.

Tyler is our spirit animal. I mean, I just I love the way you show up in this world. I love how generous you are with your heart and with your words. I love how every time you speak, you cast the joy and the warmth on other people and not only yourself, it's just really a gift. I just feel like we're very blessed to be sitting in your orbit. And I'm just sad to ask this question, which is what is your one good thing?

One good thing? Okay, I have so many good things. This is a very hard question. Yeah, not that I have so many but there's there's so many things like there's so many good things that you know, everyone should know. Um, I think I you know, when I thought about this, Becky, what came to me and maybe you can help, you know, let's refine it if it's too lofty of a good thing. But it's about this alignment part, john. And it is. I think that when opportunity comes before intentionality, or opportunity it can come before but when opportunity happens without intentionality, I should say that then there's a lot of ground for distraction. And I'm going to I'm going to define this in a second but so opportunity without intentionality equals distraction, and intentionality. Plus opportunity equals real traction in a movement and in progress. Lesson in equity and injustice. And so what I mean by that is, there's so much like we just said, there's so much you can do, there's so much need. There's so many ways to advance a particular cause or a mission. And if you're not intentional about what and why and your unique value add to this particular place, that you're going to hold yourself truly accountable to your intention, if you're not clear about that intention, if you haven't articulated that for your organization or for yourself, then the opportunities that come could really you could wake up 10 years from now and be like, wait, wait, what did I What did I want to do? Again, and this happens a lot in the legal field, a lot of my colleagues came with a social justice intention and ended up in a law firm, unhappy 10 years later, that's not true for all of them. Some are very happy that that opportunity shifted that way. But having either intentionality come after your opportunity to say, Hmm, this was unexpected, but I really inviting with this, and here's my highest and best use, or having your intentionality and your visioning statement, manifest opportunities is, is great. I mean, that's progress, that's traction. And if everybody takes their lifetimes to find that and activate that, I think we're gonna I think we can do it. I think we can elevate our consciousness as a community and as a humanity. But I think that if we're not, we're not going to do the work around intentionality and our own decision making in our own alignment. It's easy to get lost.

And that, my friends is how you change the world. Yeah, start with yourself.

So, so good. I feel like there's the personal application, there's the organizational application, there's a community application, yes, you speak with such truth. Okay, I do not want to wrap this up. I want to connect the community to you and all of your goodness, I know you hang out on clubhouse, your Instagram, tell us all the places where people can find your work,

you know, I'm kind of in everything. So So Instagram and LinkedIn are probably my two areas that I'm most active and those who are eila Malik, it's my name. And then my Instagrams, eila Malik author, I write I write children's books on the side as my as my personal my personal hobby episode number two, we'll come back to that. I know I have to mail you guys some but but the best place is actually I have. I have recently embraced multi printer ism. And I have a landing page for all those activations and all the ways to get me so it's it's eila mallik.com. And that's probably the easiest but my LinkedIn and medium articles and Instagram all of its all of its there. If you're listening to this podcast, you are someone I want to know like people who you know, people who are going to click on the wheat are for good podcast like, I want to know you so please, please don't be bashful about connecting and reaching out I would love to build community with with your listeners. Really.

You are a treasure to this community. Thank you for coming on and just love being in your world.

Thank you so much what a gift this was I loved spending an hour with you all thank you so much for your time, both of you and Julie from behind the scenes.

People love on Julie and endears them to us forever. Thank you my

friend.

Hey, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community it's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at weird for good calm backslash. Hello. One more thing if you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and Your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom