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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, what's happening?
We have a courageous human in our midst a good human and a new friend. We're so excited to introduce the community to Antoinetta Mosley, she we found Antoinetta through just some of her incredible teaching around the concept of cultivating courage, and I just want people to get to know Antoinetta she has this warmth about her I think we're like decided we wanted to extend her BFF bracelet like the first 30 seconds of meeting her. But she is just such a versatile Renaissance woman. She is a keynote speaker speaker she is a founder she is a DEI strategist. And she's a courage curator who helps individuals and organizations reach their highest potential by teaching them about the power of just consistently cultivating courage. Have you ever thought about creating an intention of trying hard things of doing things that are outside of your comfort zone? Today we're gonna walk through that. But to Antoinetta also has her own company she's the CEO at I Follow the Leader LLC. And she works on a range of projects for orgs of all sizes, that's global nonprofits, to really small mom and pop organizations as well all the way up to Fortune 500 companies, because she really wants to be that voice for DNI, for courageous conversations and for creating just workplaces of belonging. She has an amazing new book out that we're going to be talking about called six months of courage, candy, consistently cultivating courage to reach your highest potential. And we're dreamers here in this community. So you will find no more of a rabid fan base than this one. So Antoinetta welcome to our community, come up to the table in our house and just teach us your ways. It's so nice to meet you.
Awesome, thank you so much. And thank you for inviting me, I think, by saying come in, come to our spaces actually really important. And so I just want to thank you I that was not planned, but how beautiful to be invited into his space and to be welcome. And so really appreciate you all for for starting that way. Happy to be here.
Well, thanks for saying that. And just already anchoring us and inclusion, because I think that's so important, important. And we're going to have this great conversation today. But we thought it was important. And I don't know, you know, you've clearly spent a lot of time in nonprofit. We have problems with scarcity in the way that we have been wired and the way that we have been taught. And I love that you are going to break this down for us and help us understand how to find our voices, how to channel that courage that Moxie that we have inside of us. But before we dive into this, we want to get to know you. So like, take us back to little Antoinetta like where did you grow up? And how did you fall into this work?
Yeah, I grew up in Roswell, Georgia, which is about 30 minutes outside of Atlanta. I went to Georgia Tech for undergrad and really got into this work in graduate school. I didn't follow it a traditional path. So I didn't go to graduate school right after college. I actually taught preschool the first job of my career and then loves helping people so much that actually one of the moms helped me get a job at a nonprofit. And so that really started my love for nonprofits and so said, Wow, I love nonprofits. I love the work. And someone told me, okay, you need to get your MPA or Master's in Public Administration. And so I did that years after undergrad. And my topic was diversity and nonprofit leadership, overcoming barriers. And so I actually want to know award in 2016 for that, and that is what started my my business. That's what started my research. And so now over the past seven years have just had the awesome opportunity to work with a lot of organizations. But of course, because I was in the nonprofit field for so long, right, we work with a lot of nonprofits.
Okay, I just love your story. And I think, you know, being in the nonprofit space, a lot of our listeners are nonprofit leaders. And when we talk about courage, it's easy to default to like being in these like, giant undertaking. So these hero's journeys, where it's like slaying the dragon, but it's oftentimes in the nonprofit office, like just courageous conversations. And I love that you have put a lot of emphasis on this. And so I want to give you just kind of like the space to walk into this, like, how do courageous conversations really help build a culture that people really celebrate, not just tolerate, but like lean into as we think about the new year?
Yeah, and I think it's so important to note right in, in the United States, especially, but globally, the last two years, we've had such a shift in people's willingness to have the conversation. However, it still remains the same what I saw in my research, a lot of people were not taught how. And so a lot of nonprofit teams and board of directors want to do this work, they want to be equitable, and inclusive. However, they're realizing we've never actually been taught how to have a courageous conversation in the workplace. So I'm like, and so that's what I've seen a lot through our cultural audits, is people want to do this work, and they want to be amazing. However, they're struggling with, how do we have a courageous conversation? And so a lot of it is that education piece, starting with the education piece of what is a courageous conversation? How can you have them effectively? Right? And then it how do you go through the uncomfortable situations? Because, right, Courage often is uncomfortable? And so how can we foster an inclusive environment where people actually want to bring, right their whole selves or parts of themselves to work?
I'm so glad you're you're pushing this conversation, because it's one I think that we need to have. And I love the way that you talk about this and Tonetta, you talk about creating environments where it's celebrated, and not just tolerated or even feared. And I think one of the things that I really like about your teaching is that you talk about courage being a choice. And it's something that we really need to cultivate intentionally. So give us some tone setting. Throughout your career, you've done all these different cultural audits of organizations. So talk to us about what you've learned, and these audits and the trends of what you're seeing in this data that has really informed how you are teaching people how to have these courageous conversations.
Yeah, thank you back here. What I really realized, especially over the last few years, is that organizations want to have more courageous conversations, but aren't sure half, right, when you think of the best change agents, and those are really people I think, who want to make the world a better place, right? Who want to do good, which everyone listening, yay, right? I want you to think of yourself as a change agent, you want to do good in the world. And so when I realized a lot of people don't think of themselves as a leader, however, you are a change agent, even if you feel you're not in a leadership role. And so what I've seen from change agents and leaders alike, is they want to have more courageous conversations, they want people to be inclusive. However, they don't know how. And so often when they start talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, right belonging, it becomes very uncomfortable very quickly. And they're like, Wait, do we just like pack this away now? Because we tried to have this courageous conversation and then went my shame that we said, Yes, yeah. So I realized, Oh, right. Some people first need to be taught how to have a courageous conversation before even getting started on the DEI journey, which is diversity, equity inclusion. So before even getting started, let's teach our teams how to have courageous conversations, so that we really are equipped to do this work.
I mean, it's so smart. And I think every one of us like can kind of exhale as you kind of talk us through this that this is something we can do you know, and I'm an Enneagram nine, we did a whole Enneagram series, which means the peacemaker, I hate conflict. So I want to like smooth things over at all times. But so this is a growth area for me. So I would love for you to talk about ways that those that are raised Just to having uncomfortable conversations, like talk us through, like, what are some of those key tenants that you would advise a team of how to like just do this beginning of this work?
Yeah, Jon, I think that's so important. And when I want to highlight because a lot of people listening are like you, and people get confused, because I'm in di strategist. So they think, right, I love conflict. And I actually do not write, I'm an introvert, I'm the oldest child, I want everyone to get together and get along. And so I just want to encourage those who are listening, and they're like, I don't want a conflict. That right Being courageous is going to help you is going to help your team. And so I want to encourage people there. And what I've really found is that each of us can take those small steps. And so that's what you talked about, it doesn't have to be huge. But over time, right? We can grow in our courage, we all have different currents and levels, courage, consciousness could competencies. And so just making sure that individually and collectively, we're working on that together.
That's so good. And I agree with you. Because I think that a lot of people have also thought I love conflict, and I do not. I'm an Enneagram. Two, which means that I hate when there's not harmony, everywhere. So I confront conflict, because I don't want any discontent, I want us to all be on the same page. And I and I think that, you know, all of us approach conflict in different ways. And we all have conflicts everywhere we go. And it's this is like a muscle that you just have to keep exercising. And I do think the more you try it, it's like anything, you're gonna get as much out of it as much as you try it. So talk to us about the book because you break this down in the book, I think just beautifully. You've got this excellent new book out six months of courage, Candy consistently cultivate courage to reach your highest potential. Talk about why you were inspired to write this book and talk about like what people can expect when they read it.
When I really thought about is right, when we think about bite size, right? People think about bite sized candy, and that often makes people feel so much better rather then a whole candy bar, I'm just having a little bit. And so with courage candy, I really want it to feel manageable, that bite size, daily encouragement. And so the way that the book came about was actually through my text community. And so in May of 2022, I created a text community for what I call Caring Courageous Change Agent.
Did you say text, as in texting on a phone?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I want to know about this.
Yeah. So I created a text community for Caring Courageous Change Agents, I call them C3 individuals. So I created this text community, because through the cultural audits, I realized a lot of people wanted help. I was getting so many questions. My team was getting so many questions on what can we do today? Like, right, so much was happening in the United States and globally, around race relations, right there is there's a war going on all of these things. And so people are like, I want the tools. And so I created this text community, where five days a week I send out courage candy around a different topic each week. So for example, right now, the topic is connection. And so what I realize the great thing is people can text you back. And so I engage with the community members, and they really helped to show me what is on their minds, a lot of people in they're actually working in nonprofits, right? We have nonprofits, CEOs, nonprofit board members, as a part of this community. And the great thing is we have people from age 16, to over 72 right now. And so these are the things right, we're often not doing we're often not to use your analogy sitting at the table with people who are different than us talking about the same subject. And so the book is that opportunity for all of us who are different to work on the same practice together, which is cultivating courage consistently.
That is so smart.
Yeah, I love the bite sized pieces of it. Because honestly, if I hear too many things, I'm sure there's like a lot of this, like, you walk away and you're like, Okay, now what do I actually do today? But if we're having that one piece, I love that you've organized it like that.
Can you even imagine the feedback from somebody who's 18 to somebody who's 72 I mean, they would be informing completely different narratives based on their life experiences, which has to be so helpful.
It is yeah, it's really beautiful. All and Jon, like you said, right that bite size. So even the book follows that same format over six months. And so each each chapter is organized by weeks, right? So organized by weeks, five days of encouragement and then for courage contemplation questions. And so the great thing is people can do this individually. But my goal is really that these teams, these boards of directors, organizations are actually going to use us courage contemplation questions, to get to know each other better, and to cultivate courage within their team, which is a core piece is getting to know who you're working with, on a more intimate level.
Well, I wonder if you go deeper on courage, I know you have kind of mapped out seven attributes of courage, I would love for you to walk us through those seven pieces because I see the power of doing this as a team or if leaders pouring into those on their team. So kind of unpack this for us.
It spells out courage. We start with caring, overcoming, unapologetic repetition, advocate, gritty and embracing. So just to give those who are listening, a little help, and then I'm just going to read out one sentence for each. I know we could go on forever, but I'm going to just read out the brief thing what it means to me. And so caring when change agents make courageous choices, they should be centered in care. Something that people often ask me is being courageous, does that mean being brash? And so it's very important for me to start with when I talk about courage, it's from right those who are doing good, it's from those who are caring and courageous. It's not from a sense of self, but a sense of togetherness of everyone. And so that's why it starts with right if you're courageous truly in the meaning you should be it's centered in care. Overcoming so courageous choices require overcoming your fears. unapologetic to be your best and most courageous self, you should be unapologetically authentic. Repetition courage is a skill you must consistently cultivate. Advocate change agents should be advocates for themselves and others gritty counter complacency and comfort with unyielding courage and then embracing to reach your highest potential you must embrace courage daily.
Okay, love all of this love the activation component. And we don't want conversations around equity to be something that you just listened to, and you put them on the shelf. Like, we want it to be something that listeners can take today and do something activating with it. So talk to us a little bit about the sevens how how can people take these attributes, turn it into something strategic and measurable and make an action plan that's implementing what we talked about today?
Yeah, I think that's so important. One of my favorite quotes is Peter Drucker, what gets measured gets managed, and I think it's so important. Something that I often have audiences do when I'm speaking is I will ask them, you know, on a scale of one to five, zero, I'm not courageous at all. And five, I'm the most courageous I can be. How are you feeling today? How are you feeling right now? And so for those listening, that's something you can pause and do on that scale, right? How am I feeling? how courageous do I feel? And so that's actually something when we're in a situation, right, with a volunteer with a donor with our co workers, we can actually pause and think about that right? Or even before going in, we often know when we are going to have a courageous conversation. And so thinking about how am I feeling? And what do I need to increase that level to a place where I would feel comfortable? And then you can start working backwards? Right, starting with that measurement? And then what do I need to do to get closer to that? Five? What do I need to do if there is discrimination in the workplace that I feel comfortable speaking up? What would that take?
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Well, I think this leads perfectly into a place we wanted to like spend a little bit of time because there's this understanding that we really need to address the equitable and inclusive aspect of our spaces, to even have the psychological safety to have any of these conversations. So I wonder if we could talk about you. How do you cultivate that? And what are some of the metrics today? How are we doing as a team today on that journey?
Yeah, I think that's so important. And what we saw a lot in our firm after 2020, in the United States, was a lot of teams and organizations didn't know where they were starting from. And so what is so important is to listen first right, to seek feedback and listen first. And so what we really recommend is taking an audit of where you are, and that's going to involve talking to your stakeholders about how are you feeling right? Do you feel comfortable? Having a courageous conversation? How do you feel we're doing as it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion? And so unfortunately, right, the great resignation, quiet quitting are still trending terms. And so often we tell people, let's stop, right? If you reaffirm D is a strategic priority, let's start by listening to your stakeholders. Right? And so I think that's so important to do is to take an audit of where are we now because that really shows what you need to work on. When nonprofits, right, potential threats are going to be completely different from another's. And so really just being explorative first doing that research, how is our team feeling, and then that will really help to start unlocking what you need to do next.
I am so glad that you brought this up. Thank you for bringing this up. I think this is such a powerful strategy that I'd love to see more organizations embrace this year. And I want to make sure that everybody didn't miss what you said here. It's not just about polling, your internal teams. I mean, that is clearly a mega important one. But I also think polling your board polling, your volunteers, polling your donors, polling your insiders, because I do think that if there's a disconnect, it will be in the data. And when you see that disconnect, it's going to create almost a really clear roadmap for you about the relationships, you need to prioritize the messaging you need to work on. And I want to ask you this question and to Netta, because I, I feel people are, would be open in this community to embracing this. But we have a lot of leaders that tune into this. And we have a lot of people who are not leaders. And I want you to talk about the responsibility of both in this conversation, because I don't think it's just on leaders. Because we're saying that even the quote unquote, lowest on the totem pole, the last, you know, the person at the bottom of that organizational chart has just as much of a right to have a voice in the conversation as someone at the very top. So I would love it. If you would speak to the leader or someone who's not a leader about where they need to pour into this at the beginning.
Yeah, thank you. I think that's so important, because often we want to put the ownership on leadership. And I want to say right, the start of our framework with I follow the leader is leadership has a firm, it's a strategic priority for the pace progress framework. But what's next is we have to be willing to overcome, right? We have to be willing to challenge past beliefs and assumptions. And so that's something we all and I've heard you all talk about this on the podcast and other episodes. We have to be willing to say we're not just going to do things the way we did, because it's worked in the past the Democrats If it's especially in the United States have changed drastically. And right, if you look at census data, they're going to continue to change. And so we have to be individually and collectively willing to challenge past beliefs and assumptions. And acknowledge this is a journey. Yeah, I write. So I think we di and courageous conversations, we often want to make it similar to a fundraising goal, right? If we're thinking of Giving Tuesday or something, here's my goal, we're gonna work on it, and then it's going to be over. And we have to realize, right, it's not like fundraising in that way where we have this goal, and then we continue on. It's like fundraising, and the way that we have to continue to work on the relationships, and we want to continue to see the big gains.
I mean, I'm so glad you've like centered this conversation on courage, because in the idea of conversation, it's not the speaking that I'm even receiving us. It's the listening like courageously listening and being open to what to do with when you hear, you know, things that need to be changed. And you put a big stake in the ground around, don't do don't DIY your DEI. And I've, you know, really vibe with a lot of what you're teaching and talking about, because I do think there is, you know, Becky, throughout that there's a lot of scarcity in the sector. I think there's also a lot of this approach that you kind of shine a mirror to of taking a cookie cutter off the shelf and saying, I have a dei strategy. I copied and pasted it from somewhere else. So we're going to talk about that and give leaders you know, direction of how can you go to that next step. Like we appreciate maybe the intention, but let's go a little bit better to like something that's really effecting change.
Yeah, I think that's so great. And I talked a little bit about the framework, which it spells out pace. And so we talked a little about about the preparation phase, we talked some about the assessment phase, which is what we call the cultural audit phase. Well, what's next is the commitment phase. And we see a lot of organizations starting later. So they didn't prepare, they didn't assess. But again, they are well meaning so they see something happen, or you know, there's discussion, they say we want to do better. And so they start with commitment, this is what we're going to do, right, they put out that d i statement, This is who we want to be, and they start there. And so we recommend, we really got to start back with preparing with assessing which something that's important to share, I believe there needs to be an anonymous survey to employees. And then you want the focus group, right? You want the conversations, but you want to give both outlets recognizing that different people are going to feel comfortable sharing. And only then do we recommend, once you have that data, actually making a commitment, because then your commitment is based on your organization, your volunteers, your donor, your team. And so often people have asked this, can you just give us an action plan. And we say, ethically we cannot. Because what your employees are facing is completely different from another nonprofit, right? We work with a lot of nonprofits down the street from each other are in the same sector, but their opportunity strengths, threats, weaknesses are completely different many times. And so really only building a strategy based on that data. And then once you have that strategy, this is a pitfall, right and so much strategy, making sure that you actually have measurements attached with every single action in the strategy, making sure you have a team or a person assigned to everyone on this to everything in this strategy. And then actually being willing to again, right to shift to change, as you start to implement.
Thank you from my public relations, wired heart for all of that, because it's not enough just to listen, or, you know, to get the information, there has to be an action plan on the back end of that. And if there's not, then why are we listening? You know, how do we activate any of this. And I just want to reiterate, dei work is not something that is replicable at all. And I know that we have cultures in our sector of of doing a great job of sharing things that are working in our in our shops, but this is not something that you want to replicate. And so I'm sitting here wondering, it's Aneta like who's doing this well, do you have an example of a nonprofit? Who's done this DEI work and really channeled their current courage into a way that was felt throughout the organization that you would be willing to share with us?
I would, we actually have an organization we worked with. And they actually started with a Courageous Conversation. And so our team facilitated a 90 minute courageous conversation for their staff and board, they actually had a situation come up that was really uncomfortable, and really divisive. And was impacting the organization. And so what we did was right, we started with the pre survey, how are people feeling what's going on, and that really helped us to create, right, a courageous conversation specifically for them. The really beautiful thing is, after just 190 minute conversation, right, because we start with ground rules, we start with the level setting, we really helped to create that psychologically safe space, right there in the post survey, their sentiments, and their feelings were different. And this organization didn't stop there. Because what so many people are doing is stopping at one training, right? We did one implicit bias training one respectful workplace training, you can't stop there, your people are not going to be able to be courageous, if you just have one time. And so they actually then went through what we call the comprehensive roadmap, they went through the audit, they went through the strategy in this particular organization, they're in that implementation phase. Now, they're still meeting with us quarterly. And it's great because we really are able to focus on their wins, on on how strong their team and their board are, because every individual was willing to do the work. And so I think that's what's really great is if you're willing to right, take those small steps. When you look up a year later. Right? your culture, your team is a place where people feel celebrated, where people are excited, to come to work, to volunteer, to raise money to speak on your behalf, when you're willing to do that internal work first.
That's the world I want to live in and work in.
I mean, I feel like that is where cultures come alive, just like what you're reflecting, like everything else can kind of get into lockstep with that. So you know, we celebrate philanthropy around here, we love to gather around our table and just talk about meaningful moments. So what if you could take us back to a moment of philanthropy that has just stuck with you in your career?
Yeah, I would say, earlier in my career, I managed a program at Atlanta habitat. And so I actually managed a homeowner education program. And so at that time, I was in my 20s, I had never right bought a home yet. I now have, but I would just say seen on those closing days, the families in Atlanta at the time, it was 90% black women, homeowners, often single moms, right, so people who look like me, and to see how people's fundraising dollars help people to get a home. But to see like the baby's right, the little kids faces that they were going to start their their childhood in a home that really impacted me and will forever show me the power of $1. Right. And I think, especially with groups that are underrepresented, or as people say under estimated they may think my $1 Doesn't matter. And so something I tried to talk about is like no give right, we have to change the face of philanthropy. And so my husband and I, we are big givers, because we want to disrupt that, right? We're in our 30s. And people are often like, you're a sponsor? Is it your business? Or you and your husband? Like no, this is our family, right? Our family we want to sponsor and so I would just say those some of those memories right? Often with the youth are what have really impacted me seeing what $100 can do 510 That right seeing that added up actually leading to someone getting into a home, which is just tied to so many things. What that will do is yeah, just really beautiful.
Oh my gosh, the millennial movement of like baking philanthropy into your budget is just something that I am here for. Thank you for doing that the stories of seeing somebody on the frontlines benefit from your philanthropy, those stories will never get old, because all of a sudden, it's not this nameless, faceless person. It's a human being, you know, with feelings and thoughts and dreams and to know that we can impact that is is just something that I think will never get old in this work. So thank you for that story. We end all of our conversations with a one good thing and we're wondering, what would be your one good thing that you would offer up to our community today and to Nana
Yeah, I actually wear this shirt purposely but this courage over complacency. So yeah, I just want to encourage people, and this is a good thing, but also a thing that's probably going to bring some stuff up from some people is the alternative to choosing courage is choosing complacency. Courage is going to be uncomfortable. But the beautiful thing about courage is that it is contagious. And so I just really want people to know that taking those daily steps, right, choosing courage over complacency, choosing the user voice over a silence is going to help your workplace and your environment and your community and your family just to be better. And so yeah, that would be my thing is let's keep choosing courage over complacency.
Holy smokes, that was a one good thing.
I know. And I feel like it completely dovetailed with one of our 2023 trends, which is this concept of moving from being a thought leader to like being a change agent. We had Mona Sinha on the podcast who said you can still be visible and humble at the same time. And I love that you are getting this call to action that we can do more. And the more that we are courageous, that is going to be like a ripple. And it will inspire someone else's courage and their ability to speak up and be the change that we want to see in the world. So let's cast that pebble. And I want that ripple to run in 2023. And friends, I want you to feel empowered, that you can do this, even if you're an introvert, I love that you brought that up into Netta. You're an introvert and you're still working on this. And I think no matter your background, your position, everyone has space to pour in here. Thank you for that reminder.
I mean, I've gotten my pep in my step. And people, we want to connect people with your work and how you show up online. So we pointed to all the ways that you show up and how people can find you.
And, how they can find your book.
Oh, of course, of course. Yeah. So you can if you're looking for dei resource resources, which is diversity, equity inclusion, just for those who may be new to the concept, you can go to Ifollowtheleader.com. And that's where you can find so much information, there are resources for your team. If you would like to learn more about courage and where you can buy six months of courage candy, you can go to my website, which is antoinettamosley.com. I will spell it out because most people have not met in the internet. So it is a n t o i n e t ta mo s l ey.com. And that is also where you can buy the book. Right now I am actually inscribing books. So if you buy from our website, I will write you a personal encouragement message. And then we talked about this a little but the text community if you really want daily encouragement, you can text me at 919-647-7450. And you will get daily encouragement from me. Leaders are often even asking me questions, what can I do with my team, I will respond back my tech community is my favorite place to be. And so that is a great way to connect with me. And I just want to say this, I know we're all going through a lot right now. And mental health is something that continues to come up. And so I just want to encourage those out there that right cultivating courage daily is also for you in your cell so that you can reach your highest potential and know that you are valued. So I just want to say if someone hasn't told you lately, you are beautiful. You are amazing, right? And you have a purpose on this earth. And yeah, I just felt called to say that because I know so many people have been going through things lately.
I mean, she just finished us off with a free mom hug there at the end. That was so kind and I thank you for saying that. We're in the new year. There's a lot of resolutions coming out and we're all focused and refocused on what is the goal for the year and I love the call to make sure part of that focus is on yourself. You know important to yourself and know that you have a community of friends here who are rooting and cheering for you. So internet you brought the house down. I hope everybody will check out this book and come to your website. You've got incredible resources. Thank you for filling our cups in our hearts today learn so much.
Thank you I really appreciated being here and have loved you all from afar. So to spend this time with you at your table was beautiful. So everyone invite someone new to your table right? It will always lead to good. And so thank you all We Are For Good for all you're doing socially shaped so much. Thank you.
Hey, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics? Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at weareforgood.com/hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom.
