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Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to IV conversations. My guest today is Sandeep Singh, who is an assistant professor at the Ambedkar University at New Delhi. He teaches English. Hi, Sunday. Welcome. Hi, Raj. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. You came to Delhi, you said 16 years ago to probably do a post graduation or an MPhil.
And this was a JNU. Was JNU kind of welcoming to you as a visually impaired student genu was welcoming. Yes. Because when I reached, I knew there were some seniors who, who you were who, you know, were anticipating my arrival. So they were there. They, I mean, they took me in the in the custody, they took me to the room, and they took care of me, they told me, things that I needed to know, like, certain things that I was not very conscious about in Mumbai, told me you can't say this, you can't do this. Like you know, you can't, you can't use slurs very easily here. You got to be careful about asking, you know where they come from, and what the cost is. You can't ask anybody's cost you can't cannot some of the things you know that JNU taught me to be sensitive about, which I wasn't in Bombay, because for all in Mumbai, all of these things didn't matter to us. Neither did one ever say this, like, you know that there's some words that one was very used to using they said, No, you shouldn't use this because it may hurt somebody. So all of these sensitivities I learned in JNU. So that Virginia is very welcoming, very, you know, and I met people from so many
You know, I was oblivious to the northeastern part of our country. Until I came to join us, though there were a few Northeastern students in Mumbai in my college in my class, but one didn't interact with them. Because you're you had Northeastern ninth year, you had Bihar ninth year, you had, you know, Andhra night. And when you go there, you get food from Andhra, you get to meet people from that part of the state. So, you know, that inclusivity was there and disability, I mean, infrastructurally, JNU, has had its challenges. It is not very accessible in terms of infrastructure, but people were very, very welcoming. People were helpful, people were willing to sort of assist a lot of people. And even I, when I visited Jane, you, one thing that strikes and stands out is the number of dogs and monkeys.
And you as a visually impaired person, there wasn't a challenge, or indeed, in fact, dog Menace was a big, big challenge. Because I mean, approximately what we were told is that in an 1100 acre campus that are about 700, plus dogs, and we had a problem, we in fact, also day hunger strike, to get the administration's attention to the dog menace and to kind of see, we were not seeking a complete removal, we were suggesting, and we were willing to dialogue and say that, you know, make a space for them, like a canal in some part because JNU had a lot of open spaces.
So from that they could have, you know, selected some part and well, they could have allowed them to exist. But you know, the animal activists said no, how would it be if we give you that option? So they compared us with dogs, literally, they said, you are suggesting this for us what we what if we suggest this for you, that kind of debate, you know, so we we tried to dialogue with the animal lovers, the dog lovers of the campus many times but we always reached an impasse. So we then launched a struggle, tried to dialogue and the administration was supportive. We realized the real threat real time threat to many of us who could not go to that Havas. To have tea on our own. We had to wait for our sighted counterparts to come and take us. So we realize that challenge and you know that was the biggest challenge for us.
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Your name suggests that you are not originally from Bombay, you probably came there from somewhere else probably somewhere in the north. And the other thing I want to know is that how come you got interested in English? Yeah. So well to talk about my roots, I am from up from the village called del Hatha, in near John poor district, and to the nearest railway station to get to it is Varanasi. So we are I'm from there. My father moved to Bombay in the summer of 1969. And that's how he came to Bombay. And then he slowly slowly made his career there. And then you got married in Bombay. So my mother was already in Bombay, you know, before that, because her entire family was settled in Bombay, because my father, mother's father was a English teacher in one of the oldest school of Mumbai, the indie High School at Cooper. So my parents got married in 1973, in Bombay. And then my brother came along then my sister and I, so we were all born in Bombay in tiny, in fact, not in Bombay, Ani, which is an adjacent district to Mumbai. So I actually had a very interesting beginning into learning English. When I was in eighth standard. We had a senior who didn't have a family of his own so used to stay in school and used to study in Jehan college, you may have heard of George probably Arthur Hussein, who was an orphan and was staying in our school and used to study in college and because he didn't have he hadn't sort of started his career. So he was staying in school. So I used to hear him speak English. And he had couple of occasions, our principals to make him give speeches in English for our trustees and our guests. So I always think you know how eloquently he speaks. I also want to speak like him someday. And I, in fact, he was our dormitory in charge. So I told him, you know, that Sunday, I also want to speak like you the way you speak English so well and so eloquently. They said, Yeah, so then he gave me a few tips that listen to BBC on radio, listen to cricket commentary on radio. And I used to, until then, I still listen to karate commentary, because I actually like some of the Marathi commentators, and I still listen to him the commentary, and automatically, it was like, kind of, you know, kind of a moment eureka moment for me. And I said, Yeah, why not? And I actually started doing that. And it just hope so what I used to do, George is that after a cricket match is over, and when we are walking back to our room, or when you're going to the washroom. This start repeating the commentary that you have heard on the radio, English commentary. So please talk to myself, you know, like imagining, like, I'm Tony, great. I'm Ravi Shastri, and how I would be saying those same words. And like that, you know, words just stayed in one's memory when and they just sort of started making sense to my ears like, Okay, this is how it sounds right. You also did mention cricket in in, while you're talking about how we pick up the language.
It's a stupid question to ask to an Indian, especially from Mumbai. But still, how did you get interested in cricket? Well,
I that's the one sport that I understood the first the most, I mean, 1996 World Cup is my beginning into watching cricket. I think that's the that's the time that I and my brother used to talk to me a lot about cricket. And my brother used to play cricket for which used to get beaten by my dad and my my father for it to know that is to miss school and Mr. Institutions and go play cricket. So I used to and used to take me along so that, you know, he doesn't get beaten. He doesn't get beaten by my father on the way because if I'm there, he has to take care of me. So how will he beat him? You know, oh, my brother's quite smart. So he used to take me to the ground and make me sit behind the systems and you select, I'll tell you how many runs I have run and how many runs away, you do the scoring for me. Okay, so that was my beginnings. I used to sit behind the keeper and used to score ones for my brother and for the team. So I thought okay, this is what the simple I understand. There's not much to know. And then 1996 World Cup and you know, I began is my beginning into actually watching cricket and listening to cricket. You know,
you were telling me that the first 910 years of your early days you were at home. So what actually happened during those early days and then what prompted your parents to put you into a school?
Yeah, so jobs before I mean, now I joined happy home and school for the blind, my parents tried a couple of, you know, usual schools for me to nearby schools where my siblings were going, and why my suppose they started me with an English medium school where my sister and my brother were going. So they realized in a week's time that I wasn't looking at the blackboard, I wasn't really being able to read the blackboard, even sitting in the front row. And the teacher called my parents and said that, you know, he's not, he's not being able to concentrate, he's not being able to read the board. He's sleeping in class. So then my parents were very disheartened. And then they took me out of the school, and then they thought, maybe, you know, in the school, I'll be better off. I don't know what what sensibility they had, while they thought that, and then we started coming up with another neighbor of ours to her in the middle school. They're also in a week's time, the similar issues came up, and then my parents were called, and they were told, and then after that, they didn't know what to do. They tried Hindi medium, they tried English medium, they knew the Marathi medium school will be the same story. So they didn't even try. So after that, I was pretty much at home. And I remember I used to go with my neighbor, or we had a neighbor who used to be a very religious person. So she would take me to all the southern Iran puja and all the temple hopping that she would go to, she would take me and my mother was very happy to send me thinking that okay, at least, he will go out, we'll be able to do something, you know, if religious way is his way forward, so be it. So they didn't know anything, really. Because both my parents are not very educated. And because of that, they don't they and we're talking about 1980s, even if anyone was educated, there was very little to be educated about disability and politeness and possibilities. So and being an attorney, again, resources were not that many. So basically, the turning point in my life came and those are the times when, you know, my parents were constantly told at social gatherings of family, or when relatives would come home, that you know how, and they would say it very, very, you know, loudly and openly be sitting right there, telling them that you know, how, now your life is ruined. Now, you have to ensure that this boy passes before you do, because we will take care of him after you are gone, and so on. And so then they're like, whoa, you should have done your, you know, abortion in time considered that, because there was a situation where my mother knew, because of the she was, she was when she was expecting me she was she had fallen ill. And the injection that the doctor gave out also had impacted her. She had jaundice, basically. And that jaundice resulted in an infection, because the issue was wrongly misdiagnosed and treated, the doctor had informed that, you know, that may be some, you know, disability or difficult deformity that your child may have. And my father was the opinion that they reconsider. But my mother was very, very clear that whatever it is, I'm not going to do about I'm going to let it come, and we'll take it on from there. So my mother was also for that chastise that, you know, you should have listened to him or whatever, and all these things, you know, I'm listening and, and it's only like now when I reflect back when I talked about my life, really like I think, you know, how, how some of these things usually are, but you don't know how to react at that time because I was just four or five years six years old. So the turning point came in the last shot that my parents were giving off my operation says, operated at the Banerjee Eye Hospital in VT CST which has now become and there was a Parsi doctor, there were a group of three person I especially is specialist to operating on me and after two and a half hour long operation they did on my eye, they realize that this operation is not going to work because my retina was like, you know how you sort of scramble a piece of paper and throw it in the dustbin. Moroccan had pretty much become that so they tried to do something with it, but they did not succeed. So they called my dad and he said Mr. Singh. You know, I'm telling you that don't go to any Ojha, any Baba or any temple, I'm writing a name of a school, please take him there and get him admitted there. And don't do any hospital hopping, no temple hopping. And my father said okay, but then also my father sat on it thinking, you know, school, what will you do? And he told him that it's a residential school. So they had their reservations of me going to any other school to visit or how will I do my basic things, which, I mean, they did teach me those things, but they were still not sure. You know, so but then one fine day, I think my father decided that, you know, let me take him and give it a shot. And that's how we went to that school. And and that was the first time that my dad was also visiting that part of Bombay and Till then we never had gone there. So when he went there when he met when he saw the school running and when he met Mary Banerjee who was the principal then. So he felt that maybe this is my calling, and against my mother, who was very, very against it thinking, No, this is too far. What if something happens to him? How are we going to take care of that, and how we'll be able to make it so soon. But the principal then told my mother, you know that by taking extra care of him, you will spoil him more, then he will not, then then you'll have to take care of him even when he's 3040. But if you live in down here, he'll probably become someone who will take care of you when you're in 70s and 80s. I think that's what stayed with my parents, and they decided that they will put me and then she said, you know that if he drops a glass of water at home, first time, you won't scold him. Second time, you won't scold him the third time, you will feel irritated, because you have to clean but here we will teach them how not to do that which you will not be able to teach somebody is you know, very sound piece of advice, I would say that Melbourne RG then managed to give my give my parents and they took to it.
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You started school probably a little late but you've travelled far you look up to Delhi you done your MPhil and now you're working on your PhD. And then you ended up teaching at one of the one of the top colleges of the country at St. Stephen's. What was your experience there like and, you know, teaching a bunch of students, you know, at 19 and 18 year olds could sometimes become a nightmare. Oh, yeah. The
first one month was indeed a nightmare. Because I had never imagined going to Stevens as a teacher. I mean, once aspiration it is always to be there as a student. And my first opening into teaching career was St. Stephen's college. So I mean, I mean, I knew what that institution was all about. And, you know, the illustrious college that it is, and I had difficulties because yeah, you know, I mean, I didn't know how to sort of, exert authority as a teacher, I didn't know how to kind of grasp their attention to begin with. So I had my difficulties. And I must say, when the going is tough, it doesn't get any, any easier. So I mean, I had moments where students also didn't support me in my effort to so I had difficult times. In fact, I many times thought of quitting and cooking. I mean, I thought maybe I'm not made for teaching, but then my God, then, you know, Karen used to be someone, I mean, who's still in actually there, she gave me a lot of confidence. She said, You know, we've all gone through this, we've all been unsettled by our students, and this will happen, but if you give up now, you'll never be able to pick it up. So stay with it, stick to it, and let them do what they're doing, you also do what you know best. And, you know, she told me you know, you remember this that you know, no matter what they say more than them. So, never ever think that they know more than you you do know more than that. And it is just how you communicate how you ensure that they understand that you know, because So, I said alright, let me try. So, I tried and then slowly slowly I managed to kind of gain that confidence and become someone who they could entrust me with that, you know learning and it took me a month or or about 40 days to get there and I had quite a few difficult moments then, but I somehow managed to overcome and once I managed to overcome once I realized that this is the way because you know I used to find preparation time very little because I was not from the EU and dealing Do you syllabus is nothing like what one learns in Mumbai, why English literature syllabus is way too similar in comparison to Delhi University syllabus, it is it is Delhi University syllabus is quite intense, quite sort of, you know, literature driven that in Bombay, you do alongside literature also only in your final year that you do all six papers of English literature that I figured out in Delhi University, an honors student from year one does all literary papers only. So the syllabus was also very tough for me to kind of, you know, come around and sort of make sense of I mean, it sends them in a sense that to be able to read to be able to grasp And then to be able to communicate that to students, that kind of became a little challenge. I used to stay awake most of the night. And then in class, I used to blank out at many occasions because, you know, I hadn't slept enough. And then students used to think that probably Oh, he's just forgotten what he had to say. So, you know, those moments have happened, but they have made me, you know, I assume a better teacher now that, you know, I know, teaching requires preparation teaching requires you to, you know, read more than your students are probably reading or would be reading. So those things I learned over time, and
how different or how alike was your experiences, and even current experiences at Ambedkar University at
Delhi, when against Ambedkar, I mostly got first generation learners. And I didn't got people who were second generation learners, but you know, not studied in English medium schooling, they come from Hindi medium school. And so for me, Ambedkar was like, a completely different kettle of fish, where I had to probably unlearn a few things. And, you know, I had to become more open and more sort of liberal in my, in my, in my classes, rather than, you know, the kind of strictness that one was used to, in Stephens about grading about anticipation, about what to expect out of students. So that unlearning I had to do and I came to a bit cold, because I wasn't. And I was told that, you know, you're and I was told an interview by Professor Menon, that, you know, we are children of lesser God, you know, I'm being pretty messy, that's how he described, he said, Those who don't get into the you come to us, so you can imagine the crowd we get, so you'll have to, you know, you know, pace yourself accordingly. So, that adjustment I had to make, but it wasn't very difficult on adjustment, because in update current students are more open about their background, and their difficulties and their their challenges, then that of Stevens, in Stevens, even if people had junior students had challenges and struggles and difficulties, the peer pressure was such that nobody ever spoke that eloquently or that openly in Stevens. So that was very, you know, welcoming at update, but I found,
you are a family, man, now you are married? Do you have a daughter? How is that added to your life?
Well, I've been married for not 10 years, just recently, I had her wedding anniversary. So we become 10 years old in the marriage, but it is new, because every day, you know, you're learning in your marriage, you're learning in your family, you're learning in your, you know, managing of the home, I got, I met my wife, Corona, and Jane, you want me classmates, and then, you know, we were very good friends, we were very, very close friends, that friendship sort of turned into us falling in love when she you know, sort of realizing that, you know, all the aspirations that any woman can have in a, in a man who could be abled are also available and up very well present in a disabled man. So I guess, you know, everybody has to make those compromises, either abled or disabled. So I guess you've made those and, and that's how everything fell in place. And we have an eight year old, who is also someone who I learn every day she learns from me, so she very early in life, realize that, you know, Papa can reach out to things by sight. So she realized, and she used to, you know, show everything by bringing it to me, and giving it to me in my hand. And she's also someone who's, you know, brought up with many of my friends constantly visiting home. So now the first thing that she does, if ever anyone comes abled, or disabled, sighted or blind, she ensures that she gives them a tour of the house, because she thinks it's necessary, no matter whether you can see or you can't, you need to know, the lay of the land, to be able to be independent. So she she picked up very early, you know, because she used to see me do that to all my blind friends when they used to visit me, you know, so that way she picks up she's a very, she's very quick learner. And sometimes she also Joomla me out with my sight, which also again, intellectual, she asked me to catch her and then she'll just not run and remain there. Oh, and she has those moments as well.
So are there anything that you kind of any specific things that you do to kind of relieve yourself of stress?
Yeah, so basically, I like reading because something that my academia also uses when I when I have to distress when I have to, you know, not feel that you know, I'm carrying the burden of the world. I do some light reading. So I'll read some, you know, novels that are nowhere related to my work. I would also read some books around travel. So I like traveling. So I read books around travel, I read experiences of travel, because you know, that tells you what to look out for when you're traveling. So I do that I listen to music, I like ghazals I like old Bollywood songs. And I like doing that. And I like making friends and meeting new people going to new places, trying out food, like I used to be very, very limited in my trying of cuisines but now I realize that I love coming down. So whenever there is a new cafe that somebody tells me has opened up or a new restaurant that is opened up, I am more than willing to go and try it out.
So on that amazing note, Sunday, thank you very much for finding the time to speak with me and it's always a pleasure. i We Nika
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