I don't underestimate the power of moving my body because it helps me to move energy, when I am in a stuck space, and if I don't move, it just festers, I just I watched a video the other day that really stuck with me and said that emotions that run through your body, they last for 90 seconds. That's it. So if the emotion is in you longer than that, now, it's not the emotion you're feeding on the story.
Right? It's almost as if the mind knows that. That's false. Right? So you're just sitting there telling yourself something puts you in a loop of Am I a liar? I don't believe this. Right? As opposed to, if you parallel it with physical exertion, and you've never run a mile before and you run a mile, than that means that you know, you've broke a limiting belief about yourself in a way.
It almost seems counterintuitive, right? It's like, well, success. Sounds great. Right?
So then what, what really is it is it that you have to turn into someone you're not right now.
I think that is like one of the best questions that I've ever been asked. And I love this because I'm just going to follow my gut on it because I I've been there, right? I've been there. And I've done this and I've firsthand have done it. I think that
if friends you're tuned in to the learn or be learn podcast, a show where wisdom meets curiosity in order to discover the human experience. I'm your host, Shiva D. And remember, you either learn from or you learn from now, let's get back to the show.
All right. Welcome back, everybody to another great episode. Today's guest is Marcia van Weisberg.
So I actually had to practice that before the recording, and we got it. So here we are today. Thank you, Marcia, for being here. Oh, thank you so much ever for having me. And good job on the name.
Marsha, do you mind telling us a little bit about yourself for the audience?
Absolutely. First of all, thank you for having me. Second, I am a whole bunch of things. But really, I am a parent who spent many years struggling with teen substance abuse hiding from the world really starting to deep dive and understand what shame is, and how stuck I felt in a story. And through a lot of work and hitting some really ugly low spots, decided that I wanted to be able to do something good with my story. And it opened up doors that I could have never ever anticipated. It helped me to heal. It helped me to reach people in so many different ways. And it's led to two podcasts, multiple books, and speaking and coaching. And really at the heart of it is helping people to learn how to overcome, share, put a voice to their vulnerable story with the intention of helping others.
Write something I've noticed is often the most vibrant people are ones that have worked on their mental and physical health. Right? So you see people that work on their physical health, and they're much more vibrant people and people that work on their mental health, as well. Because those are two things that money can't buy, those are earned, you have to go through the hard work. That's so true. I don't know where I would be. So, Marsha, would you mind sharing a little bit about, you know, what work you did how you manage to go through that self discovery?
Absolutely. That is a great question. I spent.
I hit some very, very low points. And those points really came from feeling like I was the only person in the world who was struggling. And I think that's what happens is when we're in those moments, we assume that no one gets us no one understands what we're going through. And we're the only person in the world who's struggling. And that's because we're just in this but I was in this bubble of thinking about myself and how it looked. And so through that time I started to reach out. I mean this is going to be eight plus years ago so YouTube became a very good friend of mine. I started listening to videos on repeat, I nonstop and
and podcasts were just starting. But there was something that I learned that really made a difference for me early on. And whether people like them or not, I learned a lot from Tony Robbins about state. And that was something that helped me to understand that I can't navigate a really difficult time when my state is constantly like in the gutter, which is where it was. And so what could I do to change my state, and that was so many things, I had mantras, I had words, I had, journaling, I had, exercise became a priority. The second mistake would drop, it would be like, Nope, we need to go back to a video again. And it was so much repeat of the same things over and over. Because if if it changed my state and elevated a little bit, then all of a sudden, I was able to handle a situation a really difficult situation. And so it was feedback, I was creating this feedback of what state and what helps me to change my state. So, so many different things. But that's really where it started from. Because when I was in a better state, I could respond better to what we were dealing with, as opposed to reacting. And I think that's one of the biggest, biggest misunderstandings is that I was really good at reacting, like I was really good at losing it reacting. But when you're in that state, you're expending your energy constantly, and nothing is changing. And so I really had to start to look and go, Okay, how can I support my state, and one of my counselors at that time gave me the analogy that you can throw gas on every fire, or you can throw sand, the more you react, and you blow up at every single thing happening, you're throwing gas. But the problem is when you throw gas, you get burned, too. And so I had to learn how to change my state so I could react and that has stuck with me forever.
Right? That's so powerful. Because I think mindset is often the way I see it is like a spectrum, right? It's, it's the equivalent to eating one bad doughnut, it's not going to make you overweight. But if you eat a doughnut every day, and then you compound that. So that's where you see the effects, right. And it's the same thing with mental health is, it's not that one bad thought that's going to go anywhere. It's it's the repetition, that puts you down a spiral. And same thing with the positive mindset, you know, it, it almost feels it's almost frustrating because it feels like it's not working, when you're constantly trying to get out of a rut, and doing that positive motivations and speaks speeches and stuff. And you might feel a burst of energy here. And then it's back to baseline. And I think it's the same way. It's that compound growth that that can be kind of frustrating to get out of right?
i You set it exactly. And I think you don't ever recognize that compound growth. When you're in the middle of it, it doesn't look like you're getting anywhere, it doesn't look like anything is changing, until you can look back one day and go wow, like I did handle this really differently than I would have before. And you start to recognize it. But I really like to emphasize that for anyone who's ever listening is that it's it's never just one thing. And it's never one thing done once it's so much repetition, that it requires that much stacking in order to change how you show up how you respond. And when you start to do that, then you start to collect those wins. But it definitely was a lot of work.
Right? I mean, you had even mentioned that you were constantly on YouTube to kind of block out that negative noise, right? So it's like, it's all that stacking momentum you had to build to get out of there is is the that initial launch, right? What do they say, with a rocket, it's like 80% of the fuel is used for the launch. It's something it's exactly like that with them with the mindset right getting out of there. I love that
you set that example, because there is a a real or something that I saw online that has stuck with me that 80% of the effort is in the launch. And then the other I don't know rocket parts. But the other thing is the the pieces that fall off once it hits a certain point, and it's because the rocket doesn't need them anymore in order to keep going. And if you really think about that, you can equate that to people as well. Right? Like your, as you start that trajectory and you move, you will lose parts of yourself. You will lose people you will lose things that aren't meant to go on that next stage of the journey with you. And when I think back to that time. I mean, I didn't know what I didn't know but it was very, very isolating because it was like watching people are falling off and dropping off and leaving, mainly because they didn't know what to say, or our story scared people or it was just it, who knew what to say. And I did carry a lot of anger and frustration for a while until I recognize that like, Marsha, you're living in it day in day out and you don't even know what to say or do So how in the world are this someone else is going to know what to say. And it just put it back in perspective.
Right? What was your outlet for the frustration and anger that you faced at times?
Definitely. workouts? There's no question definitely workouts, which is funny, because when I started getting back into a regular routine of working out again, I took up hot yoga, which I love the heat, it was really good for me. But it was incredibly painful to sit on my mat incredibly painful. Like it was so painful that it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And this is why is because when you're in a difficult time, you're I was replaying the past over and over, right? Like on a loop, I just replay what mistake did I make what was going wrong, what was happening. And so I replied that there was this fear of what the future was going to look like. And the present was worse than both of them combined. Because the present was when I was looking at all of it, and yoga was being in the present. So I remember when I first started, it was so uncomfortable. I had tears, I didn't want to be there. But I kept feeling like you have to be here right now. I think this is very important. And then from there, everything from I've done all kinds of workouts, from CrossFit to weight to nature walks and dog, I really, I don't underestimate the power of moving my body because it helps me to move energy. When I am in a stuck space. And if I don't move, it just festers. I just I watched a video the other day that really stuck with me and said that emotions that run through your body, they last for 90 seconds. That's it. So if the emotion is in you longer than that, now, it's not the emotion you're feeding on the story. And that just like I felt like that was such a mind blowing moment. So when I feel that stuck feeling, it's like I have to move in some way shape or form. Like it's not that I'm not afraid of sitting with it. But I won't sit and fester. I want to sit, ask questions, get curious, but then move.
Wow, that's actually a really powerful point. Because something I've realized is, it's the physical stamina and mental stamina are almost parallel. Right? It's oftentimes if you can physically push yourself, you're able to build that mental fortitude as well, because I've noticed, you know, when you're in a mentally weak spot, even things as such as cold showers or too inconvenient, right, or hot yoga, and it's an it's those little things that makes you realize that your mental fortitude is weakened, and that's probably why you're in a feedback loop. Right is, I don't know, I've noticed, when I watched videos from David Goggins, who's really big on, you know, physical stamina. And the guy's got, you know, mental cage is like a steel trap. You can't I can't, you know, penetrate him with emotions. He's so strong willed. Right and, and I think part of that comes from the fact that he's pushed his body to the limits that most people can't even under began to understand. can only imagine what that does to your mental health too. Right.
I think that's a great example. I think that I mean, I love his work I love listening to him. I've I've I found his book very powerful. I don't know how many times while even listening to it, I thought I would never just I would have been done. But that's just who he is. But I think the physical amplifies the mental and I think the mental is requires as much devotion I love listening to biographies, athletes, things like that. And I can't tell you how many times you hear them say that it's not the physical that gives out the mental will give out long before the physical. And so I think they both are important.
Right, it's, it's almost Amazing how powerful the mind is because your mind will tap out way before your body's gonna tap out. So if you can develop that strength, then, you know, emotions also can be conquered or overcome in a way. Mm
hmm. I completely agree. I completely agree. And I've I've spent the last two years learning more We're about NLP, and neuro linguistic programming doing going through a lot of different certifications. And it really is powerful when you understand how powerful your mind is, and what your mind is capable of. And I'm not talking the there's still a lot of talk about like the fake toxic positivity. Like, if you just keep saying the affirmations, you're going to create the change, I don't believe in that I really don't. And I think it really, it's a really, it's a really slippery toxic slope for people who are trying to create change, because we're still holding on to all of the things that don't align with that. So it's about learning the power of those emotions, right and releasing that. And that's how you change the story.
Right, it's almost as if the mind knows that that's false. Right? So you're just sitting there telling yourself something puts you in a loop of Am I a liar, I don't believe this. Right? As opposed to, if you parallel it with physical exertion, and you've never run a mile before and you run a mile, then that means that you've broke a limiting belief about yourself in a way. And
that's it by pushing past that ceiling going into something that you didn't think that you could do. And just to paint a picture, like, during those early years, I wasn't even thinking of thriving, I was just trying to figure how to survive another day. And so, you know, if I made it through another day, it was like, Okay, what worked today, what didn't what worked, what didn't, and we're humans, I think that it's very easy for us to think of adding more and doing more. There was a lot of times during those years that it was like what's not working and what can go. And that can save you just as much resources as adding on a good thing, because we're all doing things on a daily basis that aren't serving us. And so, you know, again, taking, if you've got these habits here that are supporting you, and you're trying to add good things on top of it, it, it doesn't matter because it's still crappy underneath. So you have to sometimes just take away things that you know, aren't working. And that was a big piece of what I had to learn and grow through.
Right. And the idea of being alone in it is probably so powerful, it probably resonates with so many people, because it can be kind of challenging to share what you're going through how it makes me feel, especially because of the relatability aspect. I think a lot of people have different problems. And it's hard to relate to somebody and give them the advice that you want to give, but you don't know what it is. How did you how did you deal with that period?
It's funny, because when I look back on it, I It's a great question. I'm like, How did I do that? I think one of the things. Yeah, I think one of the things that I really started to understand and get curious about is what was serving my energy and what wasn't. So I had to create little mantras that I spoke said the words to myself every single day over and over. But my inner circle became an invite only space, you didn't get access, you didn't get close. And I had people close to me, but I was so clear on what was serving me and what wasn't. And that meant that even family didn't get a pass, nobody got a pass to having access. Because we were in just this space that I had to find a way to get to another day. And so boundaries, I really did a lot of work of understanding what boundaries were and not just physical, but you know, emotional, energetic, all of these pieces. Boundaries became huge. And I really started to recognize how I didn't have any luck at all. And I know the the quote, I'm not getting it exactly. But it's not the people who have the most difficulty with your boundaries are the ones who benefited from you having done in the first place. And so when I didn't have any, right, it was like and all of a sudden, I started to put them into place. And it was like disrupting everybody. But it was like a way I feel a little bit better than the day before. And so when I and that's all that mattered. I use and I referenced Brene browns, quote a lot where she talks about like the Man in the Arena, right, who is in the arena with you for support. But I would actually take it one step further. And if you're in the arena on the floor, and you're taking advice from people who aren't even in the arena, or people who are in the 500 seats, spitting down advice at you, then why am I worried about what they're saying if they're not walking with me? And so I took it even further and it's like I was only going to take advice and support from people who Were actually walking on the arena floor with me. And that was it. So there were actually times that even people family that I had to get to a point of saying, I'm sorry, are you offering to come and live in my house for weeks, so I can maybe go get some sleep because I haven't slept for years? Oh, you're not offering, okay, then I'm not interested in your opinion, like, and I would just say, I'm not interested in your opinion. And so I had these boundary statements that I started to practice saying, that helped me to protect my energy. And the interesting thing is, is when you do that, you actually start to build a little bit more of your self worth. And I think that's something that more of us are challenged with, than what we realize. And you have to start to honor who you are what you need, give back to yourself, then you start to see and really understand that we I am worthy of being surrounded with people who you know, love, care and support and want the best for me, and I don't need 1000 People in my circle, a good handful of really quality people is all that matters. So I would say boundaries were definitely one of the biggest things. And then that second piece on self care that you touched on earlier, is really understanding that my self care was my responsibility. And I had to find a way to pour that back into me. And both of those things led to me really understanding and creating this, this loop of what radical responsibility was and what owning my choices was and how to own my choices and stop owning others. And it just became this loop that I just kept repeating every day. But that helped me to get to a space to feel stronger, to start to openly share my story. I couldn't have done it in the beginning, I was I was an absolute mess. Honestly, at that time, there's no way I could have handled the opinions and judgments and criticisms of others. But as I started to get stronger, those comments had far less effect on me than they did in the beginning.
Right? That's so powerful, because I think many people are often afraid to take that accountability, because accountability is not easy. It's, it's looking at every situation, good or bad is to and to look at it and say, well, in some fashion is is also my fault, right? Perhaps it's boundaries, you didn't set boundaries, and that's, that's your fault. Right? So it's taking that acceptance of I could have done something and I think it's much easier to just stick to the often victim mentality, or, you know, the world is happening to me, not for me, mentality. And that's, that's very powerful. What you said I, I'm trying to think of what are some other examples of boundary statements that served you well.
Think some other examples is I would ask myself, like, is this supporting me? Is this someone who wants to walk beside me? Now that I also want to clarify, that doesn't mean that I only have people in my life who 100% Agree with me? Because I also had friends who would, you know, be able to say more shot? No, this is not this is not okay, what you're doing. And so it's really important to surround yourself with that as well. I think the boundaries also comes to the example of self care, in the sense that I always use Lisa Nichols example of the cup and saucer, because we talk about self care and filling your cup. But she shared it in a way with me that changed my life in the sense that it's a cup and saucer, and you have to fill the cup to overflow, and you feed others from the saucer. And so, but your cup is empty every single day, every day you start over, it's a brand new cup. And so it's your job to fill that cup. And when I really started to look at that, it was like, Okay, what what do I need to fill my cup? And then how do I put boundaries in place for that to happen. So this might sound like a really simple example. But if journaling or meditation, or you know, walking first thing in the morning is supports you. And that is something that really fills your cup, then scrolling on social media for an hour is not going to help me fill my cup, it's actually going to empty it. And so what boundaries do we have to have in place? It's things like notifications off, it's, you know, phone off by certain times. It's honoring what I need on a regular basis. And then when I don't it's also that piece of ownership that yeah, this was me, I did that. I did that. And victim mindset is something that I think we all can relate to. I mean, I live there for a really long time. I know that space really well. And no change happens there. None. No change will ever happen in that space. You just keep feeding on the story. And so that would be the other piece on boundaries that I would catch with myself. So the way I explain it is ownership when we owner take radical responsibility for ourselves and blame sit on opposite ends of the spectrum. So whenever I found myself in a space of blame, it was like, oh, Marcia, this is not where change happens, like, so what boundaries? Are you missing? How can you shift this? What can you do? And so sounds like it, as I'm saying it, I had a lot of conversations and dialogue with myself in the beginning. And I really got to, you know, take that look in the mirror and recognize what was working and what wasn't. And by letting go of that blame, that actually helped me to move and create change, but heal in so many ways that I don't think I could have ever seen, you know, forgiveness and, and forgiving my kids and building a better relationship, all those things came from letting go of that victim mindset.
Right. I think that's really good advice. Because oftentimes, when you're going through stuff, like we had already mentioned, you feel isolated alone already, I think that puts you in a space to start reflecting on people around you, particularly. Because when times are good, you don't really reflect on those things. And it's when times are rough when you start seeing the people around you and you go, Hmm, I felt worse after that interaction, or I feel even lower, or I feel, you know, I feel a little bit more motivated today. Right? And you can start to pick up on the energy and the feelings of how did this interaction? Was it, you know, conducive to you? Or were they not respecting your boundaries? In a way, right? It's, you know, and like you said, it's, it's not just surrounding yourself with people that agree with you. But you know, you can disagree, but there's, I think there's types of people that, you know, want the best for you or, you know, sometimes it's there in their own space.
I think that's a great example, that you just said, because I want I continue to do that work, not saying I don't make mistakes, because I certainly do. But I started to see people differently. And I started to see that, you know, I could look at somebody and watch their reaction and recognize, wait, that's not about me. Like the person is like, they're always angry, they're always angry, they're always holding on to something. The old me was like, oh, I need to help them see it differently. I need to help them to innovate, then I hit a point where it was like, not my job, just not my job. Because it's not, we can't take it all on. Because when we take it all on, we lose ourselves in the process. So I think that was the other thing is that I really started to recognize, like, we're invited to fights and arguments all day long. We don't have to be part of them. They're there, but we don't have to be part of it. And so I would see things and it's like, That's not mine, or okay, like, I don't have to be involved in that. And again, I started to refuel myself, fill my energy start to feel like, okay, I have better footing, I'm better grounded. And there's another loop for another day. It's like, okay, this, this works. This does not this works. This does not. So I think it's also important when you're in a space of like literally trying to crawl out from that you do inventory on a regular basis, you check in with yourself and say, what is working? What's not? What is helping me what is not? And what needs to go, and what do I need to do. And it when you do that you start to build such a better relationship with yourself. I mean, and I mean, this probably started a number of years ago, but I still do it to this day, if we are socially in an environment. And I can hear how a person is speaking. And it might be very critical, judgmental, whatever, I just look. And I'm like, Nope, I turn around, and I walk, I'm going somewhere else. Not interested, not interested. I'm just not interested. Whereas an old me would have tried to have a conversation and now just look at it and like not interested. And so that's different. That's saving energy too, because we get to choose what we surround ourselves with all day long.
Right? I think that's, that's a great point. Because something I noticed is you can you get better at it. And you start to notice detachment from people when it comes to negative interactions, and you're almost able to assess it better as to was this was this something really about me? Or was it something that they're projecting onto me that they have yet to discover about themselves? And often it's the latter if, if it's a negative interaction with somebody's but yeah, that self work is I think, what gives you that ability to reassess situations and realize it's not always on you.
This self work, self awareness, all those self pieces are huge. And this Self Awareness is really I find that that is something that is an interesting trait that not everybody has. And again, so I was a work in progress, but I can see things now I can hear it. And I'm like, Oh, but I can also let me just clarify. I also hear myself. The second I'll say something, and it's like, oh, whoa, whoa, that's a what do you do, Marsha, that's like a victim way to talk. And that's so that self awareness is not used to judge others. It's used to catch behaviors in myself, too. So I believe self awareness is a really important tool, right? Because sometimes we hear people say things, and it's like, wow, did you mean to sound that mean? Like, is that what you like? I don't say that. But I'm listening to it. And I don't know if everybody has that level of self awareness that, that maybe that's not really appropriate way to speak or to treat others.
Right, it's, like we had mentioned prior, I think, in order to develop that superpower, you have to go through those hard times. And that's, I think that's why not everyone has developed that yet, is because it's a, it's not an easy journey to go back. And look at all the problems in your life and come to terms with that in some way, or shape or form, you had a chance or a power to change that circumstance, or at the very least the mindset of that circumstance. And to swallow that pill is a very big pill to swallow. It's so true, because
the like, there comes a point where you recognize that you're the common denominator to every single thing in your life. I'm not saying you're at fault, or that you know, to shame yourself, but you're a common denominator that is in every single situation. So sometimes it comes down to recognizing that I have to create change. And it's interesting, because I spent a very long time trying to change my kids, like literally trying to stop behaviors change them. And men not because really, because I wanted to save them. That's really what it was, I was scared, I wanted to save them. And the only way I could finally do it was to detach and like, learn how to still love them, not try and change them, and let them have their journey. And I know that sounds very easy. It was not it was not. But I read a book for anybody who might be on that path. And it was your probably decade ago. And her name is Libby Cataldi, and it's called stay close. And it was understanding how you can still stay close, energetically, you can send good wishes, like send love, but I really respect your boundaries at the same time. And that was such a game changer for me to be able to learn how to heal and then still be there to support them in some way, shape or form.
Right, I think family is often the hardest to deal with, because you don't get to choose your family. And you have to deal with, you know, letting setting those boundaries in place over time. And that can be very difficult.
Very difficult. And it's it's a case where I had to learn how to not be that almost puppet trying to control fix and manage everything, doesn't mean it I'm still struggle with it. Don't get me wrong, my mom, it just happened. But it's recognizing that it's not helping, right. It's not helping and not serving them. And so learning to change that thinking, a lot of things changed when I started to do that, because that was a case of I started to say the words like owning your choices. So I can't blame everyone else. For where my life is at if I'm not going to take responsibility for where my life is at. I had to do that. And so I would stop when things would happen. I would say wait, that's not your choice, Marsha, that's not your choice to own. But what is your choice to own. And I used to say those words over and over. And then saying to the minister base that where you are in life right now is a collection of all of the choices that you've made to get here. If you want something different, you'd have to make different choices. But it's really important to say this doing that without adding shame, judgment, criticism, right? Like for a long time, I did that with them, which is really I'm sad that I did that, but it didn't know any better. But I did that. And that doesn't create change. There's no human on this planet who's going to change your behavior, when you shame them. It's just not going to happen. So I had to learn how to detach from that and love them as they were but empower them to create some change in their life.
Right and coming from the perspective of you know, the other side of the table here as the child Hold in such an interaction, obviously, I think something that helped me is to understand that they're coming from a place of love, you know, they want what's best for you. But sometimes they don't know entirely what that is because it's not their life, it's yours. Right? So, being able to detach in that circumstance, because I think sometimes it can give you frustration of the situation, right? It's, you understand it, you're aware of it. But you can't change other people, you can only change yourself, like we've been talking about your own mindset. So a big thing for me was to accept that, that, you know, everybody's on their own journey. And ultimately, you know, in most cases, your family does love you, they just may not know, either how to express it properly, or that they're not even aware what they're doing, but they want what's best for you.
I think that's a very fair way to say it. And I, you know, I, I also openly many times admitted I made mistakes, I did, I made mistakes, because kids don't come with a manual. And I often said that, if ours definitely didn't come with a manual with what we walked in. And it's, they did die. But I also own that I made mistakes. And I think it's important as a parent, I grew up in a generation where that was never owned, that was never, there was never an I'm sorry, that wasn't anything that was accepted. It was just, this is the way it is. And so I think it's really important that to own those mistakes when they happen. And how I tended to look at it is like taking that global view. If we actually go in like a micro like with a magnifying glass and look at our decisions during the day, we're gonna find mistakes all day long. But I would stop and look up. And I often called it zooming out and say, based on what I'm walking through, am I doing okay? And the answer was always, like, I'm doing the best I can. I honestly am. But that also means like, I did make mistakes. So I openly just said, like, I I wish I could have done some things differently. But I often asked, like, Was there ever any time that you were unclear about how we, how we felt about dealing with this? How, you know, how it was impacting us? And they're like, oh, no, we always knew and I'm like, okay, so I was clear, like, so it's, it's, you know, we just do the best that we can. And you're never gonna get out of parenthood without mistakes. There's just no, there's no way. And I think there's some parents who actually struggle with that period. Like, just with that. I had a conversation the other day with a young mom who has like a two year old. And she said, my number one goal is, is that my child is always my best friend. And I stopped there. And I just said, I didn't know what to say, at first. And she said, you have a different opinion. I said, Well, I suppose I'd have a different opinion. But I can tell you be open to your framework changing as your kids get older, because there was a lot of things I wanted, when they were younger, and then there hit a point where it was like, if they're happy, healthy and alive. I'm thrilled. Like, I'm thrilled. I am actually thrilled. I that's, that's enough for me. And so, you know, as you go through parenting, the it does change what you want for your kids. And a lot of times, it's like, I just want them to be healthy and happy and doing something that they love doing.
Right? Family is the hardest topic to understand it. It truly is. Because, you know, friends, you can assess, you can change you can add to extreme measures cut off, but family is a lot harder to cut off. Especially because, you know, I think part of it is parents see themselves and their kids or they want to see themselves and their kids as a reflection, right. They think that their child's success is a reflection of their own actions. And I think that's what probably some of it stems from.
I love that you went here. I really do. Yeah, I love that you went here, because that is actually something that I observed is that there are so many people that I know personally, that their kids wins. That was their own like that was their badge of honor. My kid went to school, they've got this job, they've done this, and it was a badge of honor that I did that, like I did that. And here's my thoughts on it, not everybody's going to always agree. But if you're going to own all of their wins, and you're going to own all of their losses to you're going to own all of that you don't get to pick and choose what you take. You don't get to pick and choose. And so if you're going to take that as a win, which whatever you can, but recognize that you're your own you don't get to selectively choose what you take credit for. If you're going to take credit for the winds you're gonna take credit for for the losses too. And I think I saw On the other side of this, where my one son really went back to school created, like massive change for himself did a lot of things. And we were dealing with somebody who was taking credit for that, like I did that for him. I did that for him. And I had a really hard time with that, because I was like, You know what he that's his when I'm not taking that away from him. He did that I didn't do that. And I remember saying to him, I said, you know, how does that make you feel? When you hear that he goes, it actually makes me angry. And I'm like, good, should make you angry, because you are the one who did that. You are the one who created the change, you get to own that when that's yours. He's like, Yeah, but you guys helped me a lot. I'm like, we were supporting you. But you did it. And I think it's really important that we empower them with their wins. So that when they get into that next, you know, challenge, they can recognize that they can move themselves through it. I mean, I had somebody say to me, once when he had graduated high school, and I said, you know, I was so proud of him, because he had gone back, he'd done all these things. And I'm proud of both of them for what they've done. But this one person stopped and said, it's high school, what is he going to do with that? Like, what's the point of that? And I said, You know what, for today, he's alive, he's healthy, he's happy. And he's doing something that he were in a position I never thought we would be. And for today, that's enough for me. And I think that's the other thing that has changed from this journey is really, truly finding gratitude in moments that I didn't think we'd ever get.
Wow, that's, that's such a paradigm shift I never thought about that's, that's amazing. Because if you truly think about that statement, you had said to accept their wins, but also their losses, it almost makes you realize, then, perhaps the winds weren't mine. Because, because oftentimes people don't want to accept the losses. They're like, those losses weren't mine. Those are your choices. Right? But then that paradigm shift is like, well, then I guess the winds were their choices, too. Right? So I think that's, that's amazing statement.
Thank you, those words saved me, honestly, they really and to see it in my kids. It was empowering for them. Because it was their choices, their wins, that we're helping them to create change. And, you know, it's it's interesting, because they might end up doing things that you never thought they would do. Like I have one son who designs and so's clothing that he sells and created his own business. I mean, he was the jock all the way through. He was nothing even close to that. And he's taught himself how to do it, and he loves it. And I remember him once saying, you know, is this what you thought I would do? And I'm like, You're the happiest I've seen you in a long time. I'm thrilled. I actually am thrilled. And I think that's the the piece that is something I learned from my journey is I don't care what anyone else says. Because if we can build the fact that we can rebuild a relationship, there's respect there, based on what we walked through years ago, I, I'm thrilled with that, like, I'm so grateful for being able to have that that is not something I ever thought would be possible.
I think having a support system is so crucial to doing things like that, because only two things come out of it right self doubt, if you don't have a support system. And then the other part is enforcing boundaries and having to cut people out if they they don't, you know, have that support for you in what you're pursuing. So, support systems are so crucial. They're
so crucial. And I think that we can all recognize that there are people in our lives that maybe don't always have the best intentions for us. But we're still learning for something from every day, right? We're learning like we somebody, everybody's teaching us something. And that's the other way I look at it. Everybody's teaching us something. And it's it's when we get curious about those questions, and we start asking, it's like, Oh, interesting, that's they're teaching me this. How I respond to it is my choice to right. So I do believe that even for people that don't serve us, well, they're still teaching us something.
Right. So, you know, through this journey that you've been on and self discovery and such. Did you go to therapists, coaches, what external resources have helped you along this way? All
of the above everything you just said like certainly, I really I did. I did. I spent a lot of time trying to find different counselors, different support. For me personally If it wasn't helpful in the way that I had found it, I did find crisis counselors. And to me, the crisis counselors were a game changer. Because I know that sounds just being completely honest. Sitting in a counseling session for an hour rehashing everything that had happened, wasn't helping me in a sense, because I wasn't talking about a problem that was long gone, we were still in the middle of chaos. And it was like, Okay, I don't have time for this, like, I need actionable tools of what to do next, because the second I go home, I'm probably walking into another Gong Show. And so I really got curious, and I found crisis counselors in our area that would have like, 20 minute sessions. And I could walk in with like, this was the scenario, this is what happened, this is what happened, how can I handle this differently next time, I learned so much from them on boundaries and safety and my response and how to show up, how to speak for myself how to be an advocate. So they were life changing. The other thing is, I really started to invest in mentors, and different mentors, different coaches, events, you know, groups connecting with other people. And then we also had a lot of benefit from support groups, we entered a few different parent support groups. That actually took a lot of work I'm not so again, stay open, if you're looking for support, you might have to find, keep looking to find what you is going to support you. So we found a few different, like a Al Anon programs. And honestly, it was really tough, because they were very much sitting in the experience that we had sitting and rehashing problems that were decades old decades. And I'm like, okay, but we're in the middle of it, what do we do now. And so we found a parent support group, which was one of the best things we'd ever been to two things happen there. A, we learned we weren't alone, B, we walked in that room. And it was one room in one center in one portion of our city and the room was packed on one night of the week. And that's when we walked in and went, Oh, wait, this is not just us. i This is not just us, we are not alone in this struggle. So putting ourselves into those environments really helped. And then as much as possible, I would say putting ourselves into situations with the school with police, where we were having like very open conversations and saying, Look, we're asking for support, because we need help. This is not working. And so those were some of the other things that we had to do. I kept digging, I just kept digging, and became ruthless and looking for solutions.
Yeah, I, I often think, you know, when you go to a counselor or therapist just to open up with problems, it almost just reopens the wound, and kind of puts you back in that mental state of where you were. Right? It's the it's the same thing as sitting alone, just thinking about it and just festering, and, you know, sizzling up in those emotions and not getting anywhere. And I think a really unfortunate byproduct of going down that loop is, you know, because the human mind likes to find the shortest, least paths of least path of resistance. And oftentimes, that's substances, drugs, alcohol. And that gives you that temporary escape. And then it creates long term dependency. And that's, that's why I think it's so important to have conversations like these, because so many it's normalized, it's so normalized, that, you know, go to happy hour or go, go drink your problems away, let's do it together and laugh about it. But at some point that catches up to you. You can only escape that for so long until even those aren't doing it anymore. And you're like, Okay, what is going on? And what's wrong with me? Yeah,
I think what you've just said is really powerful, because especially coming off of the last three years, numbing our problems blowing up from our emotions, it we've normalized it, we've just absolutely normalized it. Like, the way the behavior and some of the things that we have normalized is not serving us long term. But it is really something that amplified these last few years. And I've had so many people reach out and talk about, you know, the amount of normal drinking that they were picking up during the day while they were in the pandemic, you know, substances actually, I couldn't get to the gym, couldn't get to a health food store, but you could get to any kind of liquor store or they were all open store. Right? Everything was open, but the things that support us So we're not. And so it really only fed that. But I do think these are conversations that we keep, that are really important for us to keep having, because we're just still scratching the surface of a lot of these things. And it's really, you know, recognizing that I know it's uncomfortable to feel those emotions, I trust me, I my skin crawls, I don't want to have the time. But delaying it only amplifies it, right. Delaying, it just amplifies it and makes it worse. So it's easier to sit in the muck a little bit and work our way through. I often said that when I wrote my book that I had to learn how to walk through the muck, like, on my almost on my hands and knees in order to get to the other side, almost feeling like it was suffocating sometimes. Whereas the few years before that, I pretty much stood outside of the muck and tried to make it look pretty, make it look better make it be not as bad as it was, but avoiding going through and doing the work. And if I would have understood that sooner, I would have definitely saved myself some time.
Right, I think one of the hardest lessons I had to learn was the the problems that come with holding your tongue, when you should be communicating, but you just hold it in, you don't communicate, you don't say anything. And oftentimes, the result becomes far worse when you don't speak on it, when you try to run away, because you're all that's happening is you're building time for that to become stronger, and more powerful. And either you blow up something, you know, something that you couldn't imagine occurs and it's yeah, it's, it's that's why I think, you know, the escapism, oh, it doesn't have to be substances. Oftentimes, it can be watching Netflix all day, it could be, you know, a follow me on social media all day, there's so many skate, yeah, there's so many ways to escape, that we don't even realize that these emotions bottle up, or the communication is severed, because it's uncomfortable. So let's go to something that's more comfortable. And I think that you're just wait, it's a ticking time bomb, you're waiting for it to just blow up.
And that's exactly what happens. Eventually, eventually, you'll get the one trigger, that you lose it and it blows up, I've done that. And you think that trigger is the problem, that trigger is like the very tip top icing have of shoving things down for so long. So the triggers, we a lot of times we believe the triggers that we're experiencing are the problem, but they're not they're like years of unresolved dealing with those emotions with those feelings with those experiences. And I think that's the, you know, my, my soul led me to do some work with NLP, so I could understand it. And it really helped me to release a lot of stuck emotions that I didn't even know were there. And I think that's the piece is is that, you know, we think we can just skip through steps, right? We can just work harder, push harder, do more and skip through steps and you can't, you just can't, you can, but then all of a sudden, something's going to happen, and it's going to be too much. And your body's going to say no, it's going to snap and say, that's enough. I don't want to do it anymore. So it's like we can't skip over those steps of healing. And under and taking it back to the very beginning, as we talked about, I think building that relationship with yourself checking in on a daily basis, what's working, what's not working, how am I feeling? How do I want to feel? What is supporting me what's not, what boundaries do I need in place is a way to really check in on a daily basis. And then whatever is not working, having the courage to say that's not for me, that's just not for me, we say goodbye to a lot of didn't actually even get to say goodbye. But we had a lot of relationships and friendships severed during those years. And I just had to get to a space of not holding on to anger and frustration of that and just say that, again, I don't need to hold on to that. This is about you trying to survive right now. And that's all that matters. So trusting that you're going to lose a lot along the way. But what you can gain is like 100 times more beneficial.
Right? I keep thinking the hardest part is the daily incremental changes, it just doesn't. I think as humans we like to see instant results and Sorehead delayed gratification of all that time and effort you put in finally pays off is obviously it's rewarding when it happens but getting there like you said going through the muck and and you know, crawling your way through is is a lot of work.
Yeah, clean. We want it faster. Of course we want it faster we do. But I think it's so important that if you want lasting change It's not going to come fast like it, we can all have the wins. But if you don't do the work to sustain it, then it'll fall and lose it. And I often say, like I started my so my solo book was in 2017. My podcast launched after that 2017 2018. And both have really helped me to do the work that I get to do today. If the universe would have showed me back in 2016, what I was going to get to do because of it, I guarantee you, I would have self sabotage, I guarantee it because I wasn't ready for it. And I wasn't, I would, yep. Because I was not, it would have overwhelmed me, I would have felt not worthy, not ready. And that's why we have to grow into a version that can sustain what we're building. It's not about we don't you set it exactly, we can all get quick wins, we can get things fast, we can get them, but then we can just lose it as fast to write like it's not sustainable. And to balance out our nervous systems to balance out our energy, we need things to be more neutral, and more sustainable than we need the peaks and valleys. And that has always been my thing. So even when I want to know what's coming next, which I do every single day, not lying. I remind myself that I'm not meant to know. And and I am preparing for whatever is coming, right, I'm going to be ready. But it's it's my job to grow myself into that version.
Wow, I like that the idea of growing into the identity, that your your next stage of who you're meant to be. But I could see how looking backwards could be very overwhelming and self sabotaging. Because especially when you're already in that loop, seeing the version that you could be only would make you feel even worse, where you are.
So true. It's so true. That's so powerful.
So, Marsha, I want to ask you one last closing question. This show is called learner Beeler. And so I like to ask the guests, what is one big life lesson that either you learn from somebody or you want the audience to learn from your own life?
Well, I think it's one that carries both ways, I have learned the power of our stories and how connected we are, and how similar like we are, we're far more alike than different. And I would love the listeners to learn that they are not alone in their stories that someone right oh, say someone somewhere is praying for the solutions you're holding on to, don't let yourself be defined by your story. Because it's just that it's a story. It's just a story. It's shaped you into who you are today. Don't give that story so much power and identity because it's not who you are. It's just what you walk through.
So then what does define you? Is it your values,
I think is values, I actually I really strongly believe that knowing who you are is your values. Now, values, I'm going to clarify for a second because a lot of people will write down their values, right? And that's a great place to start. But do you actually live into them? Like do you actually live into them, you can't, you can't have boundaries, until you know what your values are, because you don't even know what you're saying yes or no to. And so I think that values come first. But it's not about actually just writing them down. It's about living them. So if I can give a quick example, if you say health is your number one value, but you do every single thing possible to self sabotage your health every single day, then you are not in alignment with who you say you want to be. And it's interesting, because then what happens is, is that you're not in integrity with yourself. And so you're in an unstable space, which makes it really hard to make decisions and respond to what life is giving you. So I think it's values and values, you don't need 20 values, like a couple of key values are really where it comes from knowing what those are. And then that helps the physician you have what you say yes and no to all day long.
Right. I think another important thing is, in order to find your values, you often have to self reflect on what identities you want to be known as right through yourself. If, if you value health, then that must mean your identity as someone who's athletic or you see yourself as an athlete, and only then can you shape your values around those identities.
That's a great point. That is an absolutely great point and your identity It can change at any time. Right? It can change at any time. So I think coming back, what's actually can be challenging is setting those values and really checking in and making sure are they your values? Or are they what you think your values are supposed to be? Right? Because everybody wants to say health. But are they actually values? Or are they what you think you're supposed to say? And sometimes it's like really getting to the root of what is that and understanding those values, and saying what it is like, if you're a person who your top value is money, then say it like, just be just still pretend. And don't make it sound. Like what? Like what you think it's supposed to sound like. But when you get a better idea of what those values are, then it's really powerful, how much your life can change. And how you respond to all of your situations around you again, what you say yes or no to? I mean, I have mine. And there are times where I'll get a question for an opportunity or something will come up. And I will look at it and go, do I want to say yes or no to that? Is that the right fit? And immediately, sometimes it's like, oh, can I do that? Like that's a little bit outside of my comfort zone. But I will take a look. And it's like, I already know the answer. Because there's my values. And this is what's important to me. And that means that sometimes we're going to say no to things that people are gonna think, are you crazy for dropping that or not doing it. But if it's not the right fit, is really important to know who you are and what you want to say yes and no to every single day, it really it. I cannot stress that enough. When I first started this journey, I did a workshop on core values probably like 14 years ago. And that was a moment where I was like, wow, there's a lot of things in my life that are not lined up. No wonder I'm frustrated. No wonder I'm in this space. And so doing work on core values, I would say is a great place for anyone to start. Because the more you can get to know yourself, the more all aspects of your your life can thrive, whether it's business personal, like you just get to know what works for you, what lights you up, what drives you. And then you can build that relationship, it gets so much easier to continue to move forward, whether it's through the wins or the challenges, right, because I think the other thing with values that's important is that it's great. We're all like we're doing well, and we're winning and things are going on our life. I don't think that's what defines who we are. I think it's we are defined by the times the difficult times, right? The challenging times that we walk through. That's what defines us. And so I think that comes back to values too. Right? Sorry, I'm very passionate about values. So
true. Because, yeah, no, no, I think that's a great point. Because I think a lot of us have a fear of thinking big. And if you look at winners who have achieved, major wins, they think big. And in order to think big, they had good values. And in order to have strong values, they had to go through a lot of self reflection of what happened in their life and take accountability for it. And I think that's truly where it stems from the fear of, you know, a lot of people can say, you know, I want to be the, you know, next Joe Rogan, or I want to be the next Kobe Bryant or, you know, I want to achieve these big things. But you know, truly what comes with that is the understanding of yourself and understanding of your values. And I think oftentimes, in order to know what values you want, you have to experience the lack thereof, to see like, Okay, this is what I value. And I understand why I value it because without it this is how I felt right without the support system. This is how I felt so I value truly supportive people around me and and I think that's, you know, the it goes back to the beginning of our conversation how self work builds upon all these things.
Every single thing you said they're so it's so powerful. It really is. And it's it's usually our fear of success that actually stopped us snowfield fear of failure. It's like it's fear of success. Who am I to can I actually do this like that self sabotage sets in like the doubt sets in. And that's deep rooted in our subconscious we've had our whole life to build it, it's we've built it it's like it's literally your subconscious mind is like the hard drive on your of your computer, you've taken snapshots of every single thing that has happened in your life. So you can have this dream for a goal to go after this level of success. But deep down if you're not working on that inner to really see your own blind spots. You might get it but you won't sustain it. You have to grow into the version who can hold that level. That's that's really Really the only way because nobody wants we've all had something where we've gained it. And it's been a win, and then it's gone. And it's like, what? What happened? Why did that go? That's that level of self sabotage. Right? You will take it to 95%. And then it's like, oh, geez, that's scary. And we do something to let it go. And so, right, right, yeah. Yeah.
So it's yeah, you take the foot off the gas a little bit, because you're scared of reaching that next milestone. Why do you think that is that people are so afraid of success? Because, you know, it almost seems counterintuitive, right? It's like, well, success. Sounds great. Right? So then what, what really is it is it that you have to turn into someone you're not right now.
I think that is like one of the best questions that I've ever been asked. And I love this, because I'm just gonna follow my gut on it. Because I, I've been there, right, I've been there. And I've done this, and I firsthand have done it. I think that we can't predict what it's going to look like when we get there. We look at other people that maybe have achieved what we say we want. And maybe they're not the kind of people that we want to be, or maybe they are, they don't have the same values, right, they don't have the same values. And I think then it becomes like, but I don't want to do it like they did, you don't have to, you don't have to. So I give an example. Um, I have a you know, I have some people in my life who very, very, very much value money. And I think that money is a fantastic tool don't give, but they also value the the different things like the bigger houses, the bigger cars, the big things, that doesn't mean anything to me. And it's just, it's, it's, that's just a thought and opinion, as my husband, I always joke that like, if I have the cash in my hand, do I want the really big house do I want and I'm like, actually don't want it. It's not what I want. But if my picture of success is only that, that I think I have to become that or that's who I'm going to be if this happens, then I will again, take it to 95% and probably self sabotage every single time. And it's been a learning curve for me to understand that, you know, I, I walk a different path I I help people write books, I do coaching, I do podcasting. They're not all incredibly lucrative ways of building a business and creating a legacy. Does that mean that it's less valuable than what others are doing? No, it doesn't. But it's my value. And that's what's important. I think what happens? I hope that example makes sense. It's what does that picture look like? I don't want to be how someone else is? Or can I actually can I actually do it because I've never done it before. Right? We will our subconscious mind, this is a really tough one, our subconscious mind will go back to what's familiar, it'll always go to what's familiar. So if you're familiar is struggling, being miserable, not having enough, not making ends meet, not having good health, if that's your familiar, that's what you will work back towards. Even if you say, well, that's Marcia, that's ridiculous, I don't even want that. It doesn't matter. That's what normal is you have to create a new familiar, you have to create a new familiar and that means you have to be able to be able to do some of that subconscious work to change that story. And then create a new familiar of what you're going towards. So it's I hope that answers your question. But it really comes down to like what getting real with yourself on what is blocking you.
Right. That's very true. I think part of it is you have to create a new baseline of you know, the of that zone of comfortability, you have to create a new baseline there. And, and perhaps part of it stems from understanding subconsciously that we have to sacrifice certain things to get there. And as humans, we're uncomfortable to change, and we prefer comfortable, we prefer our comfort zones. So like you said, creating that new zone of comfort requires you to drop certain things and sacrifice certain things that for a chance because you don't know how it's going to play out or how it's going to turn out. But, you know, I think through this journey, something that's super important is to just think in a way that makes you believe that it'll turn out better than you can imagine because the alternative is thinking negatively and that's only going to when you think negatively it's 100% gonna happen when you think positively, you know, in some way, shape or form, you'll create some sort of positive change, right?
I love that. I absolutely love that. And I do believe that I believe that to be very much true. And the more you build out that comfort zone, like you stretch it, like if you're coming from a comfort zone, this this small right now, if you stretch a little bit, then all of a sudden, you start to build some trust within yourself that okay, I did this, like I actually I've come I've come a ways. Alright, what's the next step? And what's the next step? And when you build that trust within yourself, then you really can take more and more steps. But I do think, and I was this person, I do think a lot of us are sitting and waiting until we're comfortable to move. And that you're never going to be ready to move. It's there's never a perfect time. There's never a time where it's like, oh, I have every single thing figured out. Because I think if you think you have every single piece figured out. And then you take the first step, the universe is gonna go okay, well, here we go. How about this, and it's a complete curveball. And then it's like, well, I don't know how to handle that. So I'm going to step back into my my little zone. So you're not meant to figure out all the steps, you're meant to keep moving with intention for what you are here to create. And I think that we are all here to create something to be of service to make a difference to make an impact. We all have gifts I think every single one of us does. We just get to decide if we use them or not. And I think that I will say it comes down to it like I can't use your gifts, Shiva, you can't use mine. So if you choose not to use yours, they go untapped. And who else is being impacted? Because you're not using them? I think that's the other piece I was come back to who is not being impacted by me not sharing. And that keeps me going more than the fear of what people will think or say.
Right, and I think what we're talking about goes perfectly hand in hand with the example you gave earlier about. If I had known who I was going to be coming in a year from then I would have self sabotage, right? Because negative thoughts will 100% manifest in itself. But positive thoughts will transmute in some way in your life. Like for example, you know, if you thought I could never do this, I can never become a podcaster. Well, you won't write if you don't write good, you won't. But if you think right, but if you think I could do this, well, perhaps maybe that wasn't meant to be your path. But then through podcasting, you found that you love communication, and then you became a Communication Coach, and you love that. Right. So I think that's the perfect example of what we're talking about here. Yeah,
you just have to move, you just have to move. And when you have that drop down of what you want to do. I think it's really I often call it A, you get this like nudge from the universe. And it's, it's a conference call, it's telling you like what your gifts are, you get to decide. And be careful who you take that to because not everybody's going to see it not everybody's going to agree with it. When I first said I wanted to write a book and start a podcast. 99% of people thought I was nuts. You know nothing about that. And I'm like, I know what I think I'm supposed to. I could have taken that and went all right. Well, they all think it's a bad idea. I probably shouldn't. And I look at it now. And I'm like I saw when I doubt myself now. We all have evidence, go back and look at a time in your life when there's evidence there. I look back at that person five years ago who decided to do it even though everyone thought it was crazy. And I just think I wouldn't be doing anything I'm doing today. So keep following your path. Because again, people are going to come into your life. They might mean well, they might mean their best, but don't let them stop or start you like check in and make those decisions yourself.
Right. Well, Marsha, thank you so much for being on the show. I had absolutely great time. I think our conversations are gonna help the audience quite a bit.
Thank you so much for having me Shiva honestly and for asking such like deep questions. I love the conversation.