Teisho by Roshi Philip Kapleau: Blue Cliff Record #7 "Fayen's 'You are Echo'"

9:37PM Aug 19, 2024

Speakers:

Philip Kapleau

Keywords:

monk

senses

buddha

master

mind

abbot

give

zen

reality

person

asked

zen master

eye

names

moon

question

truth

monastery

form

translate

This is the sixth day of the seven day, October 1973 session. We will resume with another koan from the Blue Cliff Records today. And like yesterday's koan, this one is also very brief.

This is number seven, and it reads this way, a monk asked, and master Hogan, that's in Japanese, in fayen and Chinese, I am echo. I ask your reverence. What is Buddha fayen said, You are echo. That's the end of the of the column. Before going into the background of the column, there's a subject that, perhaps that we should talk about once again, we've already talked about it, and that is a subject of faith and

a fellow people have told me in docs on that, as it says she can goes on, it becomes clearer and clearer to them that their real problem is a lack of faith, lack of faith in themselves, which always applies, a lack of faith in the method the teacher. And the lack of faith in the method and the teacher implies a lack in oneself. Implies a lack of faith in oneself. There's a very pertinent quotation from Zen master Hakuin, where he says, Buddhism, bodhisattvas, in reality have no form. And as they have no form, they are unknown to those who dwell on the materialistic plane. They have been given form out of our necessity in

a term materialist has many definitions, but certainly one of them is that person who finds it difficult, if not impossible, to believe anything that's outside the realm of his senses, which of course, includes a discriminating intellect

having been brought up in the Age of Science, feel that Everything has to be proved by the scientific method. I

And yet, if we ask ourselves, has science ever proved why the blood goes to our body without any effort on our part, why our heart beats without any effort on our part, why do we move our bowels without any effort on our part? Why the sun goes through the heavens the way it does and the moon? Why plants bloom in the spring? My cats have kittens and not puppies and so on. I It would seem as though it would be the other way around what is before our eyes. And of course, this includes all the senses are nearly so profound as the evidence of and evidence is the word of what can't be experienced by the senses, or at least the causes of these things can be so I end Zen, the most profound answer is, I don't know.

And yet, those who pay so much toss in science, and this is not a put down of science. They stopped to realize that so many of the of the truths of science, particularly the nature of the universe and man, were anticipated by the Buddha 1000s of years ago, simply of being confirmed by science or the scientific method, we would see that the introspective method saw Zen, very powerful. It's not the most powerful weapon. It's. For learning about ourselves and the universe. We save ourselves in the universe, on reality, they're not too this would take us. This would take us back to the Buddha. What was the Buddha's experience, what did he say about his experience, or experiences? What does the Buddha say about the nature of the universe? And here we have so much material, such a wealth of material. And of course, there's a confirmatory material from the patriarchs and great masters and so some familiarization with what they have said would certainly seem to be a prerequisite to establishing this faith in oneself.

In well, we don't want to, since we talked about this last time, we don't want to say too much. However, there's just one thing here, briefly from one of these Zen masters, a disciple of Hakuin Zenji called Tori Zenji, Japanese. And he says, When I a student of the Dharma, this man, by the way, was his Zen master. He succeeded Hakuin. When I a student of the Dharma, look at the real form of the universe. All is the never failing manifestation of the mysterious truth of Tathagata at any time, in any moment and in any place, none can be Other than the marvelous revelation of its glorious light in

well, perhaps just a few more lines is rather long, but this realization made our patriarchs and virtuous Zen masters extend tender care with a heart of worshiping, even to such beings as beasts and birds. This realization teaches us that our daily food and drink, clothes and protections of life are the warm flesh and blood the merciful incarnation of Buddha i

Well, let us come back to the con. Well before we get to the con, let's say something about this Hogan or phi n, to give him this Chinese name. His dates again are 885, to 958, which again puts him in the tongue period. Perhaps this is in the little later, just After the tongue the five dynasties period. I

house. It says he became a monk in a monastery at a very early age in his childhood, at first, he studied under the outstanding Vinaya Master Shi twe

in a famous temple. A lover of learning, he not only studied the Buddh scriptures, but also steeped himself in the Confucian classics,

urged by an impetus stirring in him, he went southward to fuchal to seek instruction from a chan master there, but his mind was not opened, and He took to the road again after several years. As he was passing by the monastery of titsang, he was caught in a stove in a snowstorm, so that he had to stop over for a while as he was warming himself by the stove, the abbot. Lo han que Cheng asked him, What is the destination of your present trip? I am only a pilgrim. He answered, what is the meaning of your pilgrimage? Ask the abbot. I don't know. As a reply, not knowing is the closest intimacy came the cryptic remark of the Abbot,

not knowing is the closest intimacy or ordinary relative knowledge, if it comes between us and things, mind that is empty of all concepts and notions is really intimate with things, as we saw in The first go on in the blue Cliff records, Bodhidharma, classic answer, I don't know, even on another level, on a less profound level, it's a good answer, and it's Confucius said somewhere that if you know, say So, if you don't know, say so. Very simple

well now this this conversation goes on with the abbot here, when the snow had stopped, fayen took leave of the Abbot, who accompanied him to the door and asked him, you say that the three realms are nothing but mind and all dharmas nothing but consciousness. This is the kind of thing that you find in many other many other sects, other religions, too, these abstract statements, these pictures of reality, these intellectual pictures. He's assigning names to things. Notice how the abbot handles this. So the abbot says, Tell me, is that stone out there in the courtyard, within your mind or outside your mind? Within my mind, replied, fayen at this the abbot said, Oh, you wonder what makes it so necessary for you to travel with a stone on your mind? Fayen was taken aback by this remark, and laying down his bag, he decided to stay longer with the abbot in order to settle his doubts. Every day, he presented his new views and new reasons to the master, but all that the master commented was, no the Buddha Dharma is not like that you must.

At the end of a month, fayen said to the Master, I have exhausted my stock of words and reasonings. The master said, As regards the Buddha Dharma, everything is a present reality. The hearing of this words, of these words, fayen was awakened. Of course, these words too are a picture,

but maybe the abbot was trying to make him stop crying or complaining.

One of the characteristics, as we'll see in a few more of these anecdotes or Mundo of fayen, was his ability to bring a person back to himself into his present moment. He was a master at this kind of thing, the sensitivity of sensing the right time, which is so important, not only in terms of Zen, but in terms of anything. Very powerful statement made at the wrong time can have no effect at all. A less powerful statement made at the right time, which means when the person is ready to receive it, it's a very sensitive, sensitive moment, and one must have the not only the perspicuity to see that moment, but Also the patience, perhaps, perhaps more than anything else one needs to be, to be emptied of any desire to want to teach, any desire to show off one's knowledge and so on. This is, this is a truly the mark of a truly great teacher. This is emptiness. You. Really, so long as a teacher has opinions that he so long as he harbors opinions, his effectiveness is to that degree reduced. And the great teachers are the ones that are empty and so so they're part of everything, part of everyone. And in this way we can whether we're teaching or not help people.

Then there's another here, statement of fayens. It says, When he became an abbot, he used to say to his monks, reality is right before you, and yet you are apt to translate it into a world of names and forms. How are you going to retranslate it into its original? And then, even though he himself was pretty learned, he wanders monks against mere learning, you tell them, in effect, that the real is before you, and it can only be perceived by direct intuition and reasoning with only blindfold your eyes. Now this statement about you're apt to translate it into a world of names and forms is something that the author of this book is constantly doing. He's constantly calling him a radical imperialist. He's calling every one of the people here, giving them all of these philosophical classifications and names. And of course, this is part of our way of relating. Whole education seems centered in that in that direction. And yet the Buddha and all the Masters tell us, this is what causes our our mayo. This is the Japanese word for delusion. This is, this is the the sand being thrown into our eyes because we live by the name and by how we perceive the form which we give a name. And then here, as as fayen says, How are you going to retranslate it into its original we get so far away from our original tool mind, and then we have to go through painful spiritual practices in order to get back to something that reality we had never left, except in this kind of tentative way, this whole New World that we've superimposed on the real world. I

most people are unable to function unless they give a name or a category to something and that, this is the very basis of our errors.

And there's another Mundo here. Once, a monk asked, in what way must one expose oneself to Dao so as to be in tune with Tao FAI and asked back, when have you ever exposed yourself to Dao without being in tune with it?

And this kind of question shows that it's playing with words and concepts. Of course, this might have been an earnest question, or just could have been another one of these intellectual type of questions by which we which we interpose between us and the real experience of trying to grasp the truth. This is going on all the time, consciously or unconsciously, we must not be deceived by people that ask certain types of questions. And we see here one of the qualities of the Masters is how they expose these questions for what they are. And of course, at the same time, they're exposing the mind of the person so that he can see not only the shallowness of the question, but the falsity of the question, that it springs from a from a shallow portion of the mind you.

Then, then the same the same monk proceeded to ask, but what can you do when the six senses are incapable of appreciating the subtle voice of truth? And what is? What is fayen Say? They are all your own children. I We can't check the responsibility of the way we respond to our senses.

And then then fayen goes on, let's continue this model. He says, You say that the six senses do not apprehend the subtle voice of truth. Is it the ear that is at fault, or is it the eye? But if fundamental reality truly is, how can it be negated, even though the six senses have no perception of it, how could it be denied this? This, in fact, ties in with what we said at the very beginning about faith. People say, how do you know that when someone makes a statement, why is it that you don't know it? Why don't you read your senses correctly? Why don't you use your inner eye, your intuitive eye, then you would also know this, or at least you'd have some kind of a glimpse of it. You

as Hakuin says, like a person in the midst of water cries, I thirst. Or we might say it's like a person in the midst of water says, There's no water here. I don't see any water. I just feel wetness. You

then there's another. Then this continues this same dialog here, and fayinghasan, he says, as the ancients said, to leave the senses is to be attached to the senses, and to leave names and letters is to be attached to names and letters. That's why the Devas of the thoughtless heaven fell in a single day back to their original state of ignorance and delusion after 80,000 mahakapas of self cultivation and mortification, this was bound to happen, seeing that they did not have an authentic insight into fundamental reality.

The last part, perhaps can, can be translated in a kind of a modern idiom by saying, This is why those who have only learning knowledge matter how wise they appear to be, eventually they fall into deep pain, anxiety, fear and so on, lacking this authentic insight. Now this to leave the senses is to be attached to the senses, and to leave names and letters is to be attached to names and letters. It's not a matter of denying or repudiating the senses. We have another teachings, such statements as, do not identify with the body, by which, of course, is meant the senses. This has been pointed this out at workshops, many times when people ask about different traditions, all teachings, all teachings point to the truth. So why is Zen any any holier, any better than any other teaching? But here we see that do not identify with the body, just the very opposite of what he is saying here. Do not identify. The body is a repudiation of the senses, and therefore is an attachment to them. The sort of a clinging to the non non senses are clinging to the idea of detaching oneself from the senses. We've had many masters of Wang po also somewhere says, You'll leave the world or the senses, or something like that, escapes fire but leaps into the sea. Rather in Zen, it is becoming so thoroughly one with the senses, only then do we perceive what is beyond them and yet not separable from them, to deny our daily life, which is certainly part of it is the senses. This is how we get around. Of course, it is extremely limited part of the two aspect of things. Nevertheless, it is to our senses that we come to to the realization that there's more to to reality than than just the senses. This famous corn in the blue Cliff records is toward the end there with um on where this monk comes to him and and says that masters are always talking about saving people. I suppose. A blind person came before you, he couldn't couldn't see you. A person who was deaf, dumb and blind. He couldn't see you. Couldn't see your gestures, he couldn't hear your words, and he couldn't ask any questions at all. How would you save such a person? And then Oman begins to put him through he's repeated this many times. We don't have to go through the koan again, but it shows the it shows the Zen way of handling these kind of things, instead of arguing or giving all kinds of subtle things. Although occasionally masters do do it. We see here and in fayen as a sort of a combination of these two, again, depending on on the makeup of the person. Sometimes he'll use a certain amount of intellectuality, but always he gets back to to bringing him up against himself, making him see that his question or what's or what's behind the question, so shallow i

There's another dialog. One time, a monk asked, what is the state of one reality? Faye and replied, if it's a state that cannot be the one reality, I

another time when he was asked, what is the mind of the ancient Buddhas? He said, It is that from which flow compassion and joyful giving. What is that not joyful living, but joyful giving. It is that from which flow compassion and joyful giving. Then, when he was asked what is the right and true way, he answered that which I have vowed once and again to teach you to walk on i

Another time a monk said, It has been said, all the worthies and sages of the 10 quarters belong to this school. Now, what exactly is this school? And his answer was that to which all the worthies and sages of the 10 quarters belong.

Another time when a monk asked about the ancient Buddhists, he remarked, even now, there are no barriers. Actually, this is very much like our present colon, bringing him right back to a cell to himself. There are no barriers between you, between your realization of your true nature. You just think they are. You just directed them. You

at the time, when he was asked what was the secret aim of all the Buddhas, he said, you also have it in yourself, and perhaps one more here. On another occasion, a monk said to him, I am not asking about the pointer, I only wish to know what is the moon. The course, is a very well known dialog about the don't take the finger for the pointing finger for the moon. So referring to he says, I'm not asking about the pointer, I only wish to know what is the moon. And the master answered him, who is the pointer that you do not ask about? And then another monk then asked, I'm not asking about the moon. I only wish to know who is the pointer. The moon, said the master. The monk protested, I was asking about the pointer. Why did you answer me with the moon. The master replied because you were asking about the pointer.

Now this isn't just a clever this isn't just a clever repartee here. I

The Moon also is a pointer. Just as a finger is a pointer. Moon's a name. Everything's a pointer. If we see it this way, we must get beyond the point. The pointing is can be valuable. Just as we mustn't take the finger for the moon, we mustn't take the moon for the finger. This is what he's really saying. Well, all right, we get enough here. Now let's get back to our koan.

A monk asked fayen, I am a cho i asked you, what is Buddha? Now this question, what is Buddha? As you all know, is a very common question. It's like, Why did Bodhidharma come from India to China? It's the type of question that becomes a kind of a formula after a while.

And of course, lots of lots of things can be behind the question, what is Buddha? In most cases, probably these monks, especially those who are more advanced, are trying to elicit some kind of answer from the master, sort of a kind of testing, perhaps of the master. But perhaps on another level, it may be a genuine question, in the sense that it grows out of a real a real concern. After all, we must remember that here we're dealing essentially. These are monks, people who have taken the vows being a monk to follow the Buddha way. And they've been, no doubt, many of the monks for many years. They grew up in an atmosphere of Buddhism and so on, many of them, especially if they were in the other sects, then Zen had all kinds of notions of Buddha. And of course, they come into Zen, and they find some very irreverent things to say the least that are stated about Buddha or else they get if they're not seemingly crude expressions, then they're certainly very mystifying expressions, the type of things that are not said In the other in the other Buddhist sects.

You remember in things yesterday, when we read some of the some of some of the one word barriers of ummon, one question was, what is Buddha? And he said, Go. Or said, Go, good. Many meanings, go chase yourself, or, Oh, go on, don't bother me, and so on. And no doubt these monks heard about these things or read about them, and so was a teacher. This question very often came up, what is Buddha? And fayen says, You are echo. Now first this, I am echo. Why does a monk give his name? FAI en Hogen was a very popular teacher in his time. Has said that he never had less than 500 monks in his monastery, which is certainly no inconsiderable number. And in Dok San, first of all, probably doksan was very hard to get to monk. Didn't have Dok San very often. And. Yeah, not only that, but of course, the teacher, Fay and couldn't remember all the monks there and their names, and so the custom was that to give you a name first, so he would at least some connection with the monk on that level. So no doubt this monk goes and says, Well, my name is I am Ho. Now, may I ask you, what is Buddha? Master says, You are echo. Sometimes this has been translated as so you are echu, which probably literally, may be close to to the original, but it's better. It's better translated as you are hecho. And just as in that, that cone of ummon con of ummons, how can you save a person who's deaf, dumb and blind? Here, Faye is saying, realize that Buddha is no different from yourself. What's the use of asking, what is Buddha? It's like looking in the mirror and saying, Who am I? Is this my face? Or isn't my face? Although to look in the mirror and ask yourself, Is this my face I had before my parents gave birth to me could probably be an enlightening experience. Of course, the trouble is, though most people long again have it the minute they look in the mirror, unconsciously, Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who's the fairest of them all comes into the mind one form or another, which, by the way, is one reason why we don't have mirrors around here.

Now, no doubt again, we don't know. We don't know what this monk, whether he's a young monk or an experienced monk. We don't know whether the mind, his mind's eye has been opened to some degree, or whether he's completely blind,

no doubt. Of course, as we saw in the examples that were quoted, fayen was always bringing his questioners back to themselves,

and here you are. Hecho also means you have you have your senses, your six senses. Have arms, you have legs, you have a brain and so on. Realize your true nature. Instead of just asking, what is Buddha? Realize your own Buddhahood. Don't ask about about others. Count your own treasure, and not somebody else's. All of this is is in the master's answer. Now, this monk is said to have had an awakening with this.

This another quality of IEN was, as we mentioned earlier, about is being able to seize the right time. He's often called, like some kind of a name that he was given. He was like a chicken who knew the right time to peck on the egg to hatch the chick. Of course, this is an instinctive thing with with chicken, at least we say instinctive, whatever that means in that case, and that ability, that ability to sense the right time well that was at work here many other people whose minds were not ready. He may have, may have said this differently, likely if he just said, so you are a Cho. This is quite different from saying you are at Cho

you're the whole universe, nothing outside you, nothing you lack, except one thing, and that is to realize this, to wake up to it.

Now I this type of cons, by the way, is a well known corn. It's quoted very often.

And because of its brevity, I it's the kind of thing that kind of corn that can get very deep into us.

We can translate this in terms of our own practice here. What is Mo, you are Mo, nothing is outside this. Mo,

not different from your, from your six senses. I and it is more than your six senses.

If we look at the gone this way, and this will help our practice considerably. I.