My name is Catherine car and this is season three of relatively the podcast all about potentially the longest relationships of your life.
Okay, so ready
I'll be bringing siblings together to talk about the connections they have as adults as well as what it was like growing up together.
Are you joking me what have you done?
This week we're talking to the Akabusi sisters. Hi, my name is Shakira Akabusi and I am 34 years old and I am a shanties little sister.
My name is Ashanti Akabusi, and I am the older sister of Shakira Akabusi...
I rest my case, you are a nightmare.
But I've also talked to them separately to get a more private take on the relationship. If I had to say one word, it would be protective. She is such a protective older sister. Shakira is my dad's daughter. Let's let's put it that way. .
Shakira.
You know I'm recording this don't you!!!...yeah, no.
It's not just a chat. Yeah, she
won't like me saying that.
Brothers and sisters are never straightforward.
Shakira and Ashanti Akabusi have a German mum and a very famous Nigerian dad, who grew up in the care system in the UK. tenacity and resilience at the family's watchwords and the girls inherited a strong work ethic from both parents. Shakira has recently finished her first book, The strong like mum method, and Ashanti founded her own PR company, virtubrands. The sisters are really proud of their name, but found it hard for a time as kids as it came with the weight of expectation that they were both following their dad's athletic footsteps. We talk about all of that about having a strict mum about outdoor childhoods, about friends, the TV show, and junk food. But a shanty started by recalling the time when her little sister Shakira was born. This is what I remember so clearly about when Shakira arrived. It was the fact that my mum was in the hospital. And my dad was looking after me and for about what in my mind, in my mind for about a week straight I ate Heinz ravioli from the tent. Because, because that was all that my dad could make. So that's what I remember of Shakira being born. Is that like ravioli base resentment then around? Oh, gosh, honestly, please, I don't think I've had Heinz ravioli as an adult for that specific reason. Well, plus, I'm vegetarian now. So that to me, I didn't want to scupper any sponsorship deals, but that stuff is disgusting.
Exactly. And that that tells you everything. So yeah. When my mum was in hospital with Shakira, and my dad was my dad was at home looking after me. And yeah, it was it was ravioli for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
So she obviously wasn't ready to do much with you until she was a bit older. But can you remember when you first started playing together? Or perhaps when she became interesting to you? What kind of relationship you had?
I actually, you know, in all seriousness, do remember thinking that I treated Shakira as if she was my baby. So I remember I actually remember holding her I remember playing with her. I remember when she would cry, sort of trying to take her out of the car, and, you know, soothing her to sleep. I have quite vivid memories of that, I think we got to a point of playing together. I just remember there was like, one of those little tricycles and I would be on my, you know, my two wheeled bike, and Shakira would just be kind of tries to clean after me, trying to hang out with me and my friends.
She says that when you were little, she could remember taking care of you like you were her baby. She remember sort of trying to get you out of the court when you were crying and calm you and that she was if she didn't resent you, and you arrived at all, she just adored you from the from the beginning. Did you have that sense when you were small that she was on your side?
She was, but she also led me astray. You know, she was just the classic or the sister she would come and scare you that you can do that. And then I try something and it was just you know, was toddling along and couldn't quite keep up. Or when she would play Annie with me where she was like, Shakira, you get to be the main character. And I was always like, singing, dancing, loved it. I always wanted to be the main character, and she'd say, like, I'm gonna let you be the main character. And I Oh, my gosh, thank you. So I'm gonna let you be Annie. And then I would tidy her whole room and she would just sit there barking instructions, and I thought I was like playing this amazing role being the main character. So she, she did she did really take care of me, but she definitely stitched me up a couple of times as well.
That's so funny because I've said on this podcast before that my oldest sister did exactly the same. We'd play Mary Poppins and she would sing Have a spoonful of sugar and I would tidy her bedroom and she'd say, Look, check.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So there you go, you know, we know, we're not siblings.
She says she remembered cycling on her bike and you had like a teeny tiny little tricycle with your little legs and you would be sort of pumping along trying to keep up with her. She has this vivid memory.
That's so funny. I don't I don't. I don't remember that. That's really funny. I don't there's obviously so many things that a shanty will remember from when we were kids that I was too young to remember.
I think things got a little bit stickier when you get to sort of the teenage years, and it's not so cool to have your little sister hanging out with you. But yeah, we always we always played together. Especially when we went on holidays, I would remember. Sort of before we left for the airport, we'd say to each other or so. Should we be best friends today. And we'd agreed to be best friend's for the holiday and that that lasted you know, that always lasted? That's so
sweet.
Yeah, probably it was the one telecenter would let me be her best. Yeah.
What was your sort of childhood home? Like? What was the sort of vibe in activity household?
My mom was my mum was a bit of a health freak. So we didn't really have a lot of sweeties growing up. We sort of got like, one little sweets in our lunchbox. So that was that was always something that we kind of laugh about to this day.
Yes. Did the lunch box come up? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, the lunch was our mom was so tight. My mom would like make a lunchbox and it'd be brown bread, salami sandwiches, a Yaga. And then we would have a bite sized penguin. They used to they used to do them. I don't know if they do them anymore. But it's basically the size of a celebration. And we'd have one bite size penguin and that was archery. And everyone else had like packets of crisps and a juice box and a chocolate bar. And we just have a bite sized penguin.
And did you have like the friend everyone whose mum was strict about sweets, and my mum was had a friend that you'd go to their house and they'd be like, Oh, do you want anything and they'd open a cupboard and it would be like tumbling KitKat
I know it's so funny. Because my mom was the type of mom. She's amazing. But she she always wanted us outdoors. Like go out play outdoors she did. She never wanted to just sat in front of the TV just staring at the TV screen. So being able to sneak over to friends houses and watch neighbours and Home and Away. I'm stuffing into senders. Yeah. And you, Chris, that was always that was always something that we did.
And the other thing my mum did, I thought was brilliant was she would say, Look, you don't have to do chores. If you're outside playing, if you're being creative with your play, then you don't need to do chores. But if you're gonna sit and watch TV, then you can help me unload the dishwasher. You can make your bed. And so we were like, no, no, no, no, no, we don't want to make the bed. We're gonna, you know, do whatever. And we got really creative, because, you know, we just didn't want to tidy our bedroom.
And I was wondering, do you remember any funny rules that your parents had when you were little? Funny things you can remember were like absolute no no's and the FPC household.
There was a TV show, which to this day, I don't really understand why we weren't allowed to watch it. It was called married with children.
That yeah, I don't know. There were loads of things we weren't allowed to watch. And then my mum would play tennis in the morning. And the tennis court is like right next to the apartment. So my mom would be playing tennis. And then we'd be like, right, let's quickly see, like, let's quickly turn this show on. And then whatever it was, you're watching me be like, and then we'd have to watch. And when we saw the tennis game was finished downstairs, she quickly turned the TV off.
I bet your mom.
Yeah, well, she definitely does now because we were talking about it.
We had a great family dynamic. I think my dad, at the time when we were growing up was also an athlete. So we would spend six months out of the year in California, as a family. Yeah, as a family. So during the winter, when it was too cold for the athletes to train here, the squad would go over to the states for what they call warm weather training. You know, we've been school there. But we live there essentially for six months out of the year.
It's so funny what you say about going to California because one of my silly questions was going to be like, how aware were you of your dad's career, but given that you are flying off? California, I'm gonna say you're quite aware.
Yeah. I'm not sure that as a young child, I really knew sort of what was what was happening, what the impact that that, you know, my dad and his teammates were making the legacy that they were creating. I'm not sure that I was really conscious of it at the time for me, it was just Papan you know, puppers running next to Raja and, you know, that's just what it that's just what it was, you know, I Guess the same way that every child just looks at their parents. And that's just you know, that's my mom, Papa. That's just what they do.
It'd be really interesting to hear shanties answers because she was that bit older, where she would have remembered a lot more of what the reality of that situation must have been like to have our dad who was so busy underway and training and running in, you know, different countries, and he'd be away for weeks at a time and come home. To me, I was so young. I remember being in California, I remember playing on the side of the track when he was doing, you know, doing his training. And the most memories I have, are all geared around him coming home,
we lived in a cul de sac. And when he would come back from the World Championships, or the Olympic Games, or whatever it might be, the whole street would come out and cheer him as he walked, walked back in, as he drove in. Sorry. So yeah, we were, we were very aware of, you know, of his success. And I'm incredibly proud of him, obviously.
And it was like, let's paint this banner, let's do this. And then he'd come home, and it was jumping all over him. And so, you know, for my mum, I can imagine it being really difficult with him being away a lot. Now, as a mom, myself, I know how hard that can be. And for my sister, she must have been more aware of we're packing our bags, we're going to California, we're packing again, and we're leaving California, whereas to me, I was just, you know, that blissful naivety that you have at that young age, I was four or five, or I was just happy doing what I was doing in the moment in the moment.
Where, for me, it did then impact me was as I got a little bit older, I myself was, was really into athletics, and I was actually really good at athletics. But the pressure from people around me and not my family at all. But you know, the pressure from teachers at the school or the community or whatnot to be as good as my dad was overwhelming.
There was just extreme expectation. And we both enjoyed athletics. Basically, if you didn't win, it was failure, not to my parents, they were not necessarily the drivers, but to everybody else, you turn up at a race meet with your friends. And the expectation everyone would already be whispering because it can be stored as per se. And then when you get finished on its IP Chris Sacca PCs, daughter, you don't anything other than first place wasn't enough
that if I ran a race, and I came second, it was you know, it was a really big deal. And people would know what was wrong with you today? Why don't you come second? Surely you should come first. Yeah, you know, it took the fun out of it. And I know, Shakira had the same experience.
It definitely took the fun and joy away from athletics and just made it this very anxious experience. To the
point where then, as an adult, you realise how much impact that then had on my relationship to pressure, how I respond to pressure, things like that, in general,
when I suppose the weight, the weight of a name can be heavy. I mean, it can be wonderful, but it can be heavy.
Yeah, that's really interesting perspective. Actually, I've never quite thought of it like that. I mean, for me, now, as an adult, I'm so proud of my name, I'm proud of, you know, gosh, there's so much that I'm proud of. And, you know, when I consider myself an acabou See, now, it's something I really do well with pride, but yeah, I think you're right as a as a child, specifically, when it came to the world of athletics. It was it was a pressure for sure.
Yeah. So did you give up then did you decide this is too much for me?
Yeah, I did. I did, which is really, you know, sad. Because I was very talented. I was very talented. But yeah, I Well, now I realise it was anxiety. But I just remember on race days, I just felt I would feel so sick. You know, I feel really, really stressed out. And the fun was just taken out of it. So yeah, I ended up slowly but surely kind of backing away from from competitive athletics. Which is really sad.
But when I then grew older, as a mum, I went back into analytics, and I now train at the track. And actually, I love it, because the expectation is gone. My dad's that bit older and you know, it's just not such a heavy pressure. And I fallen back in love with it. And I absolutely would say the positives outweigh the negatives, you know, I don't know if Shanti mentioned she just ran her first half marathon, which is shown in red or not. Yeah, she just ran her first half marathon. I think for a shanty. It took her longer. You know, my mom was a personal trainer. Our dad was an Olympic athlete. I ended up being a pre and postnatal specialist. I specialise in pre and postnatal health and exercise. And so we all had our exercise thing you know, and for a shanty. It was always a struggle. I try to find her place in fitness and exercise because her family came from this really high level of experts in this field. And in the last two years, she's really found her feet and she's just honestly she, she can run me and I get through the ground. I love the track and I can do short distances. But Shanti gets up she runs eight miles 10 miles, she's climbed a mountain recently, something I would never do. So she has definitely found her place in that in you know, in that side of life, and it's so great to see her. Her enjoying that.
This season of relatively is sponsored by find my past the online home of the 1921 census. The census captures the details of every person in England and Wales on the night of the 19th of June 1921. From those living in poverty to the King George the fifth, to the peculiar goings on at the home of Mr. Arthur Conan Doyle, who appears to be in holding a seance with a collection of mystics and psychics. Is there a well known name in your family history? Where were they? And what were they doing that night? Find out in the 1921 census, exclusively available online at Find my past.co.uk.
I took my role as Big Sister very seriously. And I think I protected Shakira a lot growing up in the sense that I always wanted to be steady. I always wanted to be a rock. You know, I didn't really want her to see weakness. Well, what I would then perhaps perceive as weakness. But she will always say why why do you feel you need to protect me? You don't need to she always says that she does always say that. And actually, I think it gets on her nerves. But even as an adult.
Those roles are ingrained. Don't know those roles. You practice them for 18 years, so it's quite hard to undo them. So if you're the sister who tries to do that, still, whether you're aware of it or not, what role would you say that Shakira has in the family?
Shakira is my dad's daughter. Let's let's put it that way. So Shakira is the entertainer. She is energy, she is love. You know, Shakira is the one that's going to cook a big family meal and bring everyone together. She's the glue. She's the glue.
Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I love I always wanted a big family. So when we grew up, might we've got a jam family and Nigerian family. And they all lots of them lived in Germany in Nigeria at the time. And so it was just us, me and my sister and our parents, that was kind of a family unit, and everyone else would, you know, go to grandma's or go to their cousins or whatever. And we didn't have that. And so when I grew up, I was like, I really want a big family. I want a big family, where it's all cosy, and everyone goes to see their grandma. And that's what my life you know, I've managed to create. As I said, I've got four children, and we've got other siblings, we've got a stepbrother and a half brother and sister. And so we've now got this huge family. And when it's Christmas, it is loud, and it's chaotic. And then there's everything going on. And I definitely have strong connections with everybody in my family. So great. I'll be the glue. That sounds good to me.
She absolutely brings the energy secure as the one you want at your party.
People are amazing, aren't they? When you're like who's going and if they say, Yes, you care. You're okay.
You're like I'm coming in literally. It's just curious that I'm coming. I've always been behind the scenes and you know, for me to do this podcast is out of my comfort zone.
I will thank you. And how do you think she would describe you? You've given her a lovely description. How do you think she would describe you?
Oh, how would she care? describe me. She'll probably say that. I'm organised.
Are you organised?
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have lists for lists upon lists.
You and I probably not get on or you could really
help me. Yeah, probably help. I love I love organising honestly. Yeah, so she would probably say that she'd probably say that I'm caring to a fault loyal. Beyond loyalty is incredibly important to me. And when it comes to my family, yeah, sensitive maybe.
Okay, to be honest, a shanty is very similar now to the way she was when she was little. And if I had to say one word, it would be protective. She is such a protective older sister. You know, she really I think she really now as an adult, especially in and then as a child, she sort of was the same. She feels that that older sibling role and I think she really feels that responsibility of taking care of me and and I think our whole family,
she said The extent now when she's older that she won't tell you things that are hard for her because it's almost like she has to be rock like for you.
Yeah, it's really funny because I actually feel very similar as well. As Sandy. And I have a really, really good open relationship. We talk about a lot of things. But I think it's always hard when you care for someone, if you to see them struggle is really hard. And I know that if I've got something that I'm struggling with, I know that Shanti will really feel the weight of that. And she's the same. I think she knows that she's struggling with something, I'll really feel that. So we do share things with each other. But a shanty is very much like you said she would rather deal with something herself, and then share it.
And it might be a month later that I will then say, Oh, by the way, last month, I went through a really bad week. And I think it's just sort of Yeah, that's just that's just yeah, that's just sort of been ingrained in me, I guess.
Okay. Yeah, fait accompli all done? Yeah. Have there been things in your adult life which have been difficult I know you do work with rethink the charity and stuff. I wonder what sorts of things you have had to deal with and maybe have protected each other from?
For me, I had a quite severe postnatal anxiety. To a certain extent, I hid that from everybody for a long time. Not because I was really ashamed of it. But because at that stage, I wasn't ready to have to deal with it. I wanted to just keep doing my, my postnatal anxiety displayed itself in OCD, and compulsions. And I really wanted to keep hold of that. And the weird thing with something like OCD or the postnatal anxiety that I experience is that it actually is having a real negative impact on your life. But in the moment, you feel like that's your anchor, you feel like that's what saving you even though when you take a step back, you can see how damaging it is.
You Shakira was was really going through a tough time. And it was it was very evident. I think what was really hard for me is my role has always been the protector, the fixer. And this wasn't something I could fix. It wasn't something I had the tools to fix. It wasn't something that I was capable of fixing. And that was really, really tough. It's tough. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah,
I think we've been we've been sort of raised that we are, we're all there for each other. We're all there to support each other. But we also allow everybody to be who they are. And what I had said to Katherine before Sandy was that when I wasn't ready to share it, it was because I wanted to I wanted to keep it I didn't want to get better. And I knew the second I felt that it actually had control of me and I wanted at you know, I knew that I needed to do something then my family became this amazing support network.
How do you think a Shanti would describe you?
I think she had a fourth I think she'd say I was always very creative and energetic. I think she would say those things. I don't know. She'd say I was annoying. She always says I was annoying. I think I was great. So if you asked me I was spectacular. I was just the picture perfect younger simply.
She didn't say you were annoying until she was a teenager actually. She said it was sticky then, but I didn't actually ask her what she meant by sticky. Maybe I'll wait until she comes back on. Yeah. And if you wanted to really wind Shakira up now even now, which button do you think you could press? That would just be like, Oh, Shanti
Oh, I'll tell you what, um, you know what, she probably won't even know that. I would say this. If I say to her that she is disorganised. She She disorganised or untidy she walks or hit the roof. Sure hit the roof. So yeah, I can probably say that and that would even though she is Yeah, she is disorganised. She really
didn't know I'm recording this it's not just a chat.
Yeah, she won't like me saying that. She won't like me saying that but but to my standards. She is disorganised.
That is that is that is absolutely bang on the truth.
She can't I thought you would hit the roof if I said because whenever I say gr Shakira, you're like, you get so annoyed. I'm so organised. I know where everything is.
Well, I guess I guess. I guess it depends what area of my life you're talking about, like, oh my gosh, my family don't have a clue where anything is. I literally they'll be like, wherever it is in there. Wherever it is there. I know where everything is. And, and I got I do so much stuff because I work and then I'm a mom and then I run a choir and I also do my sports and so I can get myself where I need to go but it's very disorganised organisation in the last minute like I'll pull it together, but it definitely won't be in spreadsheets. Good.
How many times a day do you lose your keys? Or your phone? Oh, yeah,
no, I my bank card which I've lost again now and your bank card is I went to my bank to say like, this was a couple of months ago. And I was like, I've lost my bank, I need to get a new one. And they looked it up. And they were like, in the last two years, you've lost something like 64 Bank. And they're like, We have never known anything like it. So now just you know, to save to save the planet with plastic, I now just have it on my phone, because I cannot keep track a
fine point, I rest my case, you are a nightmare.
I wanted to ask a bit more about your mum as well, because I don't, I don't want to just sort of talk about your dad and then just assume that your mum sort of enabling this whole show on the road what you said she was a personal trainer, but she must have been a bit of a mensch to kind of keep family life going and support your dad in the way that she did.
Yeah, I mean, she's like, our mom is a sharp said, I'm the glue that keeps them together. And my mom is our mom is like the anchor, I suppose. And she did a lot. And also, she did a lot without saying that she needs you shouldn't shouldn't ever need the recognition. She just quietly does everything. Whereas ID staff has a mother and I asked him like, Don't you know what I've been doing today? Well, I've met your bed, and I've never really off. My mom just quietly did. Yeah, I
think my mom is also she's a fixer. So you know, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, a pipe that's burst or accounts that need to be done, or it could be absolutely anything, she is going to find a way to get it done. And my mom not only held the household together, but in order to enable my dad to be able to go off and do the great things that he ended up achieving. She supported every part of that journey as well. Yeah, I think that a lot of a lot of the qualities that both Shakira and I have to this day, because because of my mother, for sure. Both of
our parents are really demonstrated to us hard work. And I think both of us have a really good work ethic.
Both our parents came from, you know, incredibly humble beginnings. And everything that they've achieved together has been through hard work and focus. And I think that's why Shakira and I, we were really lucky, because we've been witness to that. And that's been instilled in us, obviously, we've also had, you know, a lot of privilege and support that has helped us to achieve the things that we've been able to go and do. But that sort of, I think that mindset has been instilled in us from from a very early age,
I was gonna ask about your dad, because it's well documented that his parents, they had him here, and then they left him and moved back to Nigeria and placed him in the care system. And that's, that's a hard card for any kid to be dealt
is that it's interesting. So with our dad, you said there, you know, it would be hard for any child, he actually speaks really fondly of his time in the children's home. And of course, there were there were challenges that came with with growing up in that way. But actually, he really he He enjoyed his childhood as a child, right? Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. He talks a lot about his experience in the children's home and, you know, it provided for him stability, safety, security food on the table.
Yeah, I think I think I think he will, like I said, the children's home he loved I think the things that that were difficult with his upbringing was obviously being away from your parents, but also being in and out of someone else's home. He had lots of different foster parents. It definitely gave him a chance that it was the children's home itself was a stability. There were lots of children there. He had some really fond memories of growing up in London. But he did definitely, you know, it was difficult being in and out of care. And when he went to the army at 16, he went straight there from the children's home. And that became that was sort of an integral moment and he speaks about the army as as a family for him.
I'm gonna lighten things up a little bit now with I wonder if you have any nicknames for her.
That was once I don't even know if she will remember this, if you'll remember the origins of this, but there was like a Julia Roberts movie. There was something with two sisters. And the nickname in there was Kiki, and I think it was like the sister was demanding or something. Anyway, somehow, Shakira adopted that nickname so I do sometimes call her Kiki.
Oh, yeah. Kiki. Yes, she does do that. Yes, she does do that. Yeah.
And then her kids now call me tanti. So sometimes I'm tanti. But yeah, that's actually So funny. I've never really thought we call each other Hey. Oh, are you?
Oh my gosh, well, no, so she's 22 My kids, but Mila Shanti she will probably be angry if I mentioned this, but me and her Shanti have another bond, we've got our sister bond. And then we have the bond that is tied together through the TV show Friends and also Harry Potter. And we really love both. And we were laughing This one weekend because it was a couple of weeks. And it was a couple of years ago now must have been before the pandemic, where I think it was Glastonbury weekend. And everybody else was at Glastonbury and you know, doing all the really cool things that people do. And me and my sister as adult in our 30s or late 20s, or whatever we were, we're at Friends fest, and we were like this is this this was a low moment we got there we were like only us together could be going to friends fest or Glastonbury weekend where all our friends are like having a rave. No,
no comment.
Did you have a lanyard? Was there a lanyard and
I know our whole reputation.
In fairness, we thought it was going to be this real cultural. This, I guess our invite to next year's friends Fest has been cancelled, right? We when we showed up though, this moment, we looked at each other and we absolutely burst into hysterics because it was just so bad.
The funniest thing was the other day I called the shanty, and I've just written I've just written this book and it's about pre and postnatal health. So it's like, you know, it's very specific to sort of rehabilitating your body during very, very detailed. And then I'm reading through the book after I've written in, it's all printed. It's nice and I look through and I call the shadows at Shanty. I don't know what happened to me, but I've actually I've got a whole section on friends in my blog. I managed to relate friends to the pelvic floor, which I did. But I was like this is professional. This is work and I even got it ends. It's very sad.
Let's be honest. It is it is got to be the best TV show.
Not doing your credibility. Sorry. Better than thank you to Shakira and a shanty acabou. See, thank you too, for listening. Shakira is new book, The strong like mum method is out later this week.
I remember when we would go to California as kids and we'd go there. We'd be there in the in the summer. And then we'd come back home in September to go to school. And I tried to pretend that I picked up and I just can't help it. I've got a little bit of an accent coming in some daughter Okay, yeah, exactly.
You can see some really sweet pictures of Shakira and Shanti by heading to our website relatively podcast.com where you can catch up with old episodes, the codebreaking sisters perhaps or Chris packin, their naturalist and his sister the designer Jenny Packham. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to rate review and subscribe or you could even share it with your brother or sister. Next week on relativity podcast it's the powerlifter poor Annabelle and her little sister Priya. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to our sponsors for this season of relatively find my past for digging into their extraordinary records and uncovering surprising and often revelatory family stories Find My past is the only place online where you can access the 1921 census. So if you want to start your family tree or add colour to what you know already, then find my past or co.uk is the place to do it.
Tradition of love and hate same this tradition of love and hate by the Fireside another way may for your father's calling you you still feel safe inside a mosque to crowd the brothers ignoring you. You still feel safe outside of washing Solo was his yesterday was his wild west Chanti can still
