Yeah, you're the only one here at the other person. Okay, no, that's
your autopilot. I
see. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I got the unlimited. And I like mostly couldn't stop it from joining meetings and I was like well, I mean it has like a summary function so like whatever I've already paid for the unlimited so we'll see if I'm, if I enjoy having that summary at the end. Yeah,
she does that look.
That's a trance like transcribing video.
Live. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I use it for interviews, but I don't know if I'll care about the the notes that it takes at the end. Maybe I'll enjoy it because I normally take them by hand but whatever. Yeah. Okay. Well, so it's 501 Emily would you like to start Have you been here before?
I was two meetings ago. I think so. I'm not sure what I can't remember what you do. Okay, so
normally we do your obviously well, I don't know if anyone needs to say their name because they're all written but like the title of your book and then normally we say what was your goal from last time? Did you achieve it and let you go for next time, but since it's January, I was thinking that we could have a yearly goal thing today. Now Yeah, tell us your your goal for the year before.
Alright, so the title of the book I'm working on is called toxic legacy, past, present future. And my goal is to have a book draft finished by the end of the year. Not before actually. So.
Very cool. All right. Mindy.
Hi. Yep. Mindy Weisberger, and the title of my book is zombie bugs. That's I keep calling it the tentative title title, but at this point, I think it's probably just the title. It's probably still gonna get some tweaking along the way. I am one chapter away for finishing it and handing it off to my editor. So So I guess that's my first goal for the year. My like the deadline that she gave me is March 15. So I set the deadline in my head is March 1, and I'm trying to get it in by February 15. Or at least I'm trying to get it written by February 15. So that I have a couple of weeks to just kind of you know, not feel like I'm being rushed to go through everything to make sure that I got everyone's affiliations right that like everyone's pronouns, right that I you know, like everything that needs to be attributed is attributed properly. And then I guess my goal for the year depending on what the edits look like when they come back, is figuring out a social media plan, making sure that I've got the images locked down blocking out how I'm going to be using all the things that didn't make it into the book and all the interview excerpts I didn't use and all the photos that I took how I'm going to incorporate that into social media and and think about I guess starting a newsletter because I guess that's the thing that people do now.
Yeah, for for me personally, I've just been putting the photos on social media as a report out the book one because I can't wait and two because I also kind of like to see if anyone has like anything to add. For example, I posted about these horse skulls that had all these shots in the wrong spot. And so you know, someone was like, Oh, I have a horse skull with seven shots in the wrong spot because someone was a complete idiot when they were shooting it. And so I actually ended up interviewing her. So anyway, that's an argument of putting them before you even publish the book. Yeah. All right, Karen. Oh, I can so for the new people this time. We're doing your goal for the whole year just because it's January. So if you have a 2024 goal for your book.
My name is Karen Boyd, my I will say working title because I very early on in this process. And I happen to know there's another book out there with the title that I want so not gonna get emotionally attached to it is failure is an option. Thinking about how to think about planning for and recover from life's inevitable losses. And my goal for this year is to try not to set goals that I am not in control of so I will not say like get a book deal or something. But I will say query you know, some reasonable first Google how many is a reasonable number of agents query and then do that many? That's my goal.
Yeah, you're gonna find a huge range of what people say. I mean, I think like, and it also depends, like, like, I think it also depends on if you're including memoir and fiction in there. And gosh, I see it's so common for people to say hundreds like, and you know, and I remember saying in an earlier meeting, I would never do for hundreds, you know, I'd be like why did 199 not want it but other people would say something different. But if you are asking people individual, I was also asked for this story. And like, was it worth it? Did they waste 20 years of their life to get a $20 You know, advance or were they like, you know, honestly, I just sent the same query out just one big blast, you know, took a week and I got a huge advance, you know, so you're gonna have a huge, huge amount of different results when you search for that. Yeah.
Thank you. That's helpful to be prepared for.
Alright star
Hi, I'm Kat sitting so this is not my normal background. Um, my goal for the year is to get my book in when it is due which is May 1 And to find and hire a fact checker. So that's going to be coming up shortly because I have to get someone in line for that and to endure the editing process, and I'm going to in April, start my tic tock journey as my main social media platform for promoting my book. Been on Tik Tok for many years, enjoying content and I have some content producers whose work I admire and would like to emulate in some ways. And so I just made a plan. I'm speaking with some other writers, which will basically April of 24 would put me in about exactly a year of producing content before my book actually comes out. And that they, you know, what I've been understanding is that you know, putting about a year's worth, you know, eight to 12 months before your book comes out is the best way to situate yourself on socials for a book if you don't already have existing social media and I had I used to write about other subjects so all my social media and followings which were sizable are basically useless. So I'm kind of starting afresh. So and then the Part B of that besides my book is I'm trying to figure out and have started thinking about what the heck to do after I get my book in and that process is happening, and I need other income. And also, I think I've come up with a reasonably interesting idea for my next book. And so that would be a time to work on that because they also say, part of what I've learned in this group, as well as elsewhere is that you should have your next book Ready to pit when your first book comes out. So I'm taking all the advices that I hear, here and elsewhere, and I'm going to be instituting them in 2024. Not just listening and nodding and thinking, Oh, that's a good idea. I'm going to I'm going to, I'm going to do the tick tock. I'm going to do the you know pitch the next book thing I'm gonna be prepared for the interim period between getting my book in and it publishing in early or early mid 2025. All
right, well, tick tock is very much my thing I gave three tick tock talks, and 2023 and then I'm doing another one in April at SC J. And when it comes to authoring, so unfortunately, I have not yet published I don't know if it would sell but I do know that like the I do think I suspect that my best advice is to not make a tick tock talking about being an author unless you want fellow authors to watch you. You make it about the content of your book if you want your readers to follow you. That's what I hypothesize. And I do have 207,000 followers and whenever I see people posting like, let's all follow each other on tick tock like these things with the authors. They have like 1000 Each, which is plenty. But that's I think that's because they're talking about being an author and they're not talking to their audience. Just my opinion. Yeah, that's
amazing advice.
Christian. Would you send us links to those tick tock so you've done because I'm I don't know anything about tick tock, but I need to I need to know, and we'd love to see how you do it.
Yeah, I'll put it in the chat. It's a raw bones but I'll grab that. That link. Well, listen, why don't you tell us your goal for the year?
Oh, you're on mute still.
I said I liked the idea of your gifts to go long term because most of this thing from month to month, and having having a big plan is good. I have the big plan but getting the month to month done. It feels in that plan has been challenging. So I've been really tied up with NASW activities. Couple of months. I mean, just this. This is something that all of you might find interesting, particularly Erica, who is among the people whose book appeared in my column, but between July and December, I had I think 25 books. So all these are new, very interesting for the most part science books. So I think that I mean this was this is more, more and more frequently. than usual. Although I think the first first half of last year was also pretty busy. But I'd say over the years, there have been more and more interest in science books and there's a it's as an editor, looking at what all these other writers have done. I'm finding it fascinating to think well, how did they ever have the time to pursue all the stuff that is in their book, which is great, but that's meanwhile I'm chipping away at my own book, which I still you know, I haven't sold yet but I I'm trying to finish one of several chapters that I can use as a sample chapter. So I should be working single mindedly on one but unfortunately, I keep coming across stuff that's so interesting that I want to put it down and then I'm you know, so I have a lot of stuff with a book done by the time I finished my sample chapter, which is okay. But yes, I need to wrap things up and move forward in a way that I have. I know I have a publisher and I know where I'm going with. So that's my goal is to get that done obviously in the next year and sooner if possible.
All right. Sounds great. Okay.
Howdy. It's almost dinnertime, which is why I'm focusing so much attention right now. I can't believe you have 207,000 followers on Tiktok. That's absolutely incredible. I confess that I'm, I'm intimidated by Tiktok. And I haven't even I've got like six other social media is going but the cat's name is Chairman Mao Mao. Hi. Anyway, that for me, I mean, I'm continuing to kind of, you know, like when Twitter went away, but then I tried masked it on I'm on blue sky and like LinkedIn is more big now. Someone told me to make a newsletter. I did. It didn't really go anywhere. I think maybe making that substack would be better. I made a Facebook page which someone else told me to do. I'm not sure if that. I don't know. I don't think that's really done anything. However, I mean, I have I have done a ton a ton of promotion over the last year and a half like more than 30 podcasts, more than 16 radio shows including live ones for television appearances. And probably like 20 in person keynote talks and a lot of online stuff too. Please be patient, the patient says. Anyway, in terms of my goals for the year, I'm in a different stage. Which is just getting started. I did not have a second book plan to when my first book came out. So I'm trying to plan that now. I'm just starting to like go through all my materials and have some conversations with people and I'm pretty. I have a general sense I think of what the next book will be about but I haven't yet found like the distillation or the story or the narrative. So that's something I need to do. And my goal by the end of the year is to have my book proposal written and and going out so I have an agent already. So once the book proposal is to her satisfaction. I mean last time she got the book deal pretty quickly at that point. So I think it's within the realm of possibility that I could get a deal before the end of the year. But my my goal, again is what I control can control which is getting the proposal written. And I have also like three big feature stories that I'm reporting this year, which I think could be tied to the book, but I'm not entirely sure at this point.
All right. Sounds great. Vince.
Yeah, hi, um, what are my goals? But that's a really good question. So I have a book coming out this fall. So the main, the main project is like, you know, just promoting the living hell out of it. by every means necessary. We're just I'm just getting started with the publisher you know, like working with the marketing department, you know, coming up with a long, long list of who to send it to and who's going to forbid and what kinds of audiences might be interested in and all that kind of stuff. And I know this is my second book, so I know very well by now that like, a lot of it's on me, so I'm also you know, looking ahead, so figuring out like, Where can I Where can I push myself how can I get the word out into to folks that that might be interested in it media to speaking gigs, all of that stuff. And one of the big things is I just got to find a way to make some more money while I'm doing it, because, you know, there's just not much money in this racket and I've always sort of, I've been in magazines, most of my career and magazines are just dying faster than ever. So, so I'm going to start a sub stack that's that's an ongoing project and hoping to get that launched that in the next couple few weeks. See if I can make a few bucks that way. And also really to try to rustle up some more speaking gigs. I got some some decent speaking gigs from my last book. And, you know, there's, it's, it's both a good way to get the word out and you know, there is pretty good money to be made in speaking. So that's I really like to develop that piece of it. So
what's the title of your new book?
Power Metal, the race for the resources that are shaping the future? Remember that coming your way sometime this fall so yeah, and then you know, beyond that, I don't know man, I mean, I you know, I'm sort of half heartedly thinking about like, what might the next book be, but really, to be honest, today, like, in the wake of like, all these layoffs that have just happened, like, I lived in LA for 17 years, I have a bunch of friends. You know, I know people at the LA Times, and oh, people at Business Insider where they just had a bunch of layoffs and like just everywhere you look it just seems like disaster like it's been a you know, the whole news business has just been in slow motion collapse for years and years and it just seems like it's getting faster and faster and half the time I just feel like I gotta like, I just got to do something else. I don't want to do something else. I really like being a journalist, but I don't know man. Today I'm not super hopeful.
Yeah, there is a Facebook group called What's your plan B, which is specifically for journalists, like in the context of possibly leaving journalism, and a really large percentage of the people I knew from news week left journalism, I think, like, most of them, yeah, that's actually in 2018. But yeah, um, I don't know. Alright, there's two other people and I can't see your names. One of them starts with K though. Can this K person go?
I think the K is your auto sorry. Oh,
God. Yes, it is. My bad the J person then. Would that be me, Jackie? Yes. Okay, cool, because I don't have enough room on my screen for everybody. So it only shows letters for some people. But yes, Jackie, go ahead.
All right. Well, we're talking goals. And so I guess my goal is really to work on my podcast. And so I made a really big challenge for myself and I'm doing one podcast a week. Various different sizes of podcasts, like three minutes on some 12 minutes to 47 minutes. So that's what I really and then I'm getting more speaking engagements and getting out and talking about history because my focus is on history for nonfiction, not science. But I have actually been bringing science into my history, which is really been fun. Talking about I've been working on just seeing where this will take me and writing and I know what you mean about the journalism and doesn't pay much that's for sure. Almost everybody that I worked with that. Casper, NBC here in Wyoming a lot of them I'm trying to think if any of them are still in news, but most of them went to big markets and now they're working in other private sectors and away from the news agencies because it just doesn't pay. So that's what I'm focused on right now. And then in the meantime, materials put for my buck, and seeing where that'll go.
Yeah, yeah. I think I think I met someone from the CASPER Tribune and his name was super hard to Google. It was something like John Jefferson, I don't know. But but he said that the CASPER Tribune never makes any money. It's a it's all funded by a rich person and it just loses money.
Nowadays, Pete, most people get their Wyoming news from Cowboy State daily. And that started off as a nonprofit, and now they're trying to move into doing profit and selling that so that'll be interesting to watch. Okay,
well, I really recommend the Wyoming innovation partnership program that I did because I think they're having one of them in Casper because they give you 500 bucks to go for a day. Yeah. And then they're giving 10 $25,000 grants to only the participants of that project and there can only be 100 total participants, meaning even if every single person applies it one in 10 chance of getting it so I recommend doing that a lot. Yeah,
that's awesome. Yeah.
Yeah. See, we were
went to Riverton that was coming up through the university and it was specifically something it was a workshop for people in the arts. Yeah. So counts when you're not there even a nonfiction. Yeah,
yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure that must be the it's called. Investing in Wyoming's creative economy, I believe part of who?
Someone Yeah. Ours is recommended. February, I
think. So that's next month. I better look back into it. Yeah.
Excellent. Okay, so my book is carcass the afterlives of animal bodies. My goals for this year are so actually I was just in a meeting with Lynn about getting funding for this group, you know, basically for my time, and then, so the book is due in May. I'm sure that I'll do that. In fact, I originally was like, I'm only going to need like until February or something. But I didn't know that you're supposed to fact check it before you turn it in. So I mean, all I need to do is fact checking and I have like, two half chapter chapters to write than the fact checkers and then the science advisors. And okay, and then by the end of the year, I'd like to have another project on deck or job or something because like, if Turn It In May, I can't just not do anything after that. Yeah, I went those are my goals. Okay, is there any thing that people would like to discuss today? They somebody emailed about something? Oh, having like, a Russian publisher. I don't know who that was.
Was it me? Yeah. That was me. Because I got an offer for publishing the last book that I did in Russian. And I just had mixed feelings about that. So I was curious, just and I think I'm starting to think if it's a science book, and it's probably a good thing to get out. There. Let's just go ahead and do it. But I don't know if anybody's had experience with that. Or thoughts.
Anybody you're asking specifically about Russian or any foreign language translation?
No, Russia. I mean, this is a Russian publisher that has just offered me you know, made an offer on the on the book to publish it in at their Russian press. So that's the no because it's Russian. And I was reading out that I'm looking at like in the UK. You know, a lot of the authors just don't public well have been refusing the contracts from Russia
because of political reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know personally, like I would. I mean, I don't I don't see how you not publishing a book. Getting your in the Russian public how that helps the people of Ukraine, you know, yeah. Yeah, I turned down. I mean, I had a I had an offer from a Chinese publisher that wanted to republish my book in Chinese but they wanted to cut out all the bad things that I said about the Chinese government that I sent out. But if it was like if they'd been willing to just publish the whole thing as it was, that would have been, I don't see why you wouldn't. So
I think that's something that I need to confirm that it just gets published as is translated directly and but yes, that's a good point.
If anything, you're, you know, that money is leaving Russia and going to where you live. You know what I mean? Like, that's not that it's it. They will be I guess they would get some profit from the sales if assuming that they sold enough to be profitable, but like, it's not like you're like supporting the government of Russia by you know, getting the right but at least it doesn't seem it doesn't strike me. I think I agree with that. It doesn't strike me as like harmful especially.
My my book, water always wins was published in China and my agent in New York has co agents in many countries around the world. So that's how she got it published in the UK. And Chinese publisher came to her co publisher in China, or CO publisher pitched it. And so yeah, for my book, there were only two very small things that she thought might be flagged by the censors. And so I was able to suggest, one was a sense that was kind of critical of the government. And they suggested something that was sort of nonsensical, so I suggested something else that basically said the same thing I intended but with a different word, and they went for that. So I felt like it was a pretty minor concession for the opportunity to potentially reach up a big new audience. And because my agent was involved, I felt I felt comfortable that with the terms like that it was whatever it is typical for this kind of thing. Yeah,
this came through my agent. I had to laugh Karen only because when you said something about money because the price of the book in Russia would be $3.
Curious about the like translation into things. I just just how does that work in terms of knowing whether or not a translator is accurately representing your words if that's not a language that you speak fluently?
Obviously real really good question.
I mean, I think I could have found somebody to read it for me. I'm not sure I would have been able to get it in time to like, approve it before they published it. But I don't know I decided to trust you know, the person that they hired the publisher hired. And you know, the, my agent, Mike, agents, co agent, etc. One of the people I profiled on my book is sort of well known in China. And he was asked to write the introduction to the Chinese edition. And he showed me that and suggested that I use Google Translate to get a sense of it. Actually, Google Translate is better than it was a few years ago. Anyway, I really liked his introduction. So I've looked at that part, but I haven't I don't actually have the Chinese edition in my hands yet. Because it just takes a while. I guess it was only published in September or October of last year. But yeah, I guess ultimately, I just decided that worrying about whether the translation was, you know, accurate to my original text was beyond the scope of things I could manage or deal with, particularly because I've been doing so much speaking and that's really taken up a lot of my time.
Yeah. A couple of things I'll point out is so for some reason I was looking at well, when I was fact checking, I was looking at, like for social media. I was looking at potentially, like fact checking telegram and so it's a Russian app. And I looked at the story exists specifically to spite Putin. So sometimes Russian things like you might look into the publisher and see if they have like a history of being like very like pro Putin in war or whatever or if they are, if they hate him, and if they published tons of stuff that's like anti Russian government. And also, tons of people speak Russian outside of Russia. It is the second most commonly spoken language on the internet. ECGs Yakubu Nima Naga Podolski 29% of Ukrainians. That is their birth language and many Ukrainian artists will simply produce content in Russian because there's so much more people who speak out but you know, but it's not just the language I noticed the publisher do so you might want to look into if they have, like, what their story is and what their background is. Like on a more specific level. Yeah.
Also, Erica, just tell me if we're done per separating on this topic, but I was interested that your your agents sold you those foreign rights for your hay, because in my case at all, it can all went through the publisher, I still have like foreign rights and for five different countries, but but, you know, I don't know how hard anybody was trying to sell those rights to what I mean.
So right after you started talking, Erica probably accidentally left the meeting. I don't know if anybody else has an answer to that. Yeah.
My mind has been any foreign rights have been sold have been through my agent. Your agent? Not that. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So Vince, are you self publishing? I think you've told us before but
no, no, it's it's on coming out on Riverhead, which is a Penguin Random House imprint.
Okay.
Yeah, it's a big company. And I, I mean, I imagine what they do is they just blast out their catalog to all the other publishers around the world. And if somebody sees it, great, they pick it up. But I don't, I don't I don't know that there's anybody in you know, France and Spain and whatever, like hustling particular titles.
Okay. Well, one thing I was gonna mention, since you're talking about the money I did so with this. Did everybody get the email from substack today that reminding you about this? Yes. Okay. Um, that so hopefully, I'm thinking about moving this subject a lot of times because when I write the notes, I'm like, Dang, this is a great email like it sucks that this is like going out and like never to be seen again on the internet. So I was like, Well, if I put on substack they have like an archive. Because I'm testing that out. But anyway, um, one of the things was a list of grants that are. So there's lots of lists of grants, like CSW and NASW both have lists of resources, including grants, but I just made a document specifically pointing to ones that I think are very useful for people writing nonfiction, non memoir books, and of course, slow and being the big one that we all love. And so, like I've said before, my advance was 50,000. My Sloan Grant was 56,000. So it more than doubled the amount of money that I got. So definitely apply to that. And applications never closed. So as soon as you have but all of the ones on the all of the grants that I saw, require a traditional publisher and the only exceptions are ones that are like, basically they're not a grant. They're basically saying we will like if you win this grant, we will traditionally publish you so there's so now I've never seen a grant that's for so publishing so now that you're so since you're on the traditional publishing route, I really recommend trying to get these grants. Even I got one and I don't get most stuff that I apply for. But there's something else I was going with that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I mean, if your traditional publishing, it all depends is like a gajillion different like publishers, but a lot of times they're gonna do this work for you. So like, I'm not thinking about different language rights. That's up to my publisher on advertising that's up to my publisher and all that kind of stuff. And so when I first signed with them, they sent me a document of what their advertising plan was, and it wasn't it wasn't like tick tock or anything like that. Like they don't have like much of like a social media presence. They but I think they have more of a like, you know, getting you like interviews in other outlets, you know, promoting the book and whatever. So in which case, you would still have to do some work, of course, because you would be, you know, doing the interview, like they'd be like a Christian and like, this person at New York Times wants to interview you, you know, and talk about your book and whatever. But yeah, so anyway, so yes, you don't really have to think about things like your rights and whatever. And actually, as soon as I sold my book, as soon as I got my contract, I did get an email from Gotham productions or something asking if I had sold the TV rights. Yeah, which any emails are free, basically. So it's not nothing to get too excited about but so sometimes, I didn't, but I knew that I didn't have to, like go out and see who wanted to do this like they are. They see who's got booked deals and so, a lot of times these things will come to you rather than you trying to find it. Yeah,
but I I actually really disagree with you, Kristen. Like, sometimes these things come to you. But you get like, the more I mean, you know this you're really good at promoting yourself. You got it. The more you push yourself out there, the more you get back, and you know, things like movie rights TV rights, you got to make sure that you hold those rights. And, and you'll do way better if you like, if you can build up a network or an agent, that's, that's just hustling that's representing you in those worlds, because publishers a lot of times they're pretty, you know, they'll do a certain amount for you, but only a certain amount. And and, you know, in my experience has just been like the you gotta you really want to get it out there and whatever realm it is. You got to push it a lot like my publisher got me a ton of media interviews and stuff like that, but I got myself for the first book I'm talking about. But I got myself probably just as many interviews plus invitations to a bunch of, you know, book festivals that they hadn't submitted me to awards, they hadn't submitted me to cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So moral of the story is like, you just you can't rely on them to do to do everything.
Yeah, that is a good point. And I guess some things that do agree with that are so MIT never even told me that Sloan existed. I did have to find that myself. Which is weird because lots of MIT books have gotten this long grant. And so like resources like this, and like certain Facebook groups and whatever, have been very useful. And then I also saw my friend Kira, who is sometimes in this group. Yeah, she got she got a commission on art commission from Netflix because she was so good at anatomy and or like she did so much anatomy art on Instagram, that like someone was like we need to do we want to do a promotional art for the Demogorgon like anatomy, who knows how to do anatomical art, and like, shoot, like the way that she did it. Was like so genius anyway. Well, yeah, I mean, you definitely have a point that like, and like also when it comes to I've mentioned this before, you know, how much does my publisher know about dead animals? And how many of their followers like on social care about dead animals like probably very little so in that in those those sorts of senses? Yeah, definitely has to be me. So, yeah, you do have a point. And I have no idea how to do anything with like the TV stuff. So I guess I guess I can't speak on that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
I've talked to recent authors and they've all just complained terribly about how little their publishers did for them for media, and how much work they had to do and how would they wish they had started earlier, and they wish they had known? So I think it's like, you know, in so many things there. They do less and less over time. But I think yeah, they have their traditional venues, but like anything outside of that it's like all you and if you know someone, you know, even better so I have my like one very good New York Times contact and I'm like She better not leave by the time my book comes out, you know?
Yeah, it's true. Okay, yes. Okay.
Because I'm at this early stage where I'm kind of trying to think about the story and the narrative. And that was one thing I took away from my first book was I feel like I did manage to create a narrative. But it wasn't some. It wasn't inherent in the material, like I really had to fight for it. So I guess I'm just wondering, do any of you have recommendations for reading materials or videos or resources that you felt were really helpful in terms of of shaping a really compelling narrative?
So you mean for like, putting like storytelling in the book or Sir,
I don't. I'm just like structure, book structure. Are there any resources that you have? That you would recommend?
Book is really good. John McPhee wrote a book just about structure. Oh, yeah.
I have read that one.
Okay, that's, that's the one because he has all these kinds of crazy, weird, creative structures. And I found it very inspiring, but yeah, that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Okay,
I just for me, personally, I find that I learned more about structure by reading well structured books than reading How To books about how to structure so writers like Mary Roach like Carl Zimmer. Like Ed Young. Just reading books, by science writers that I know are writing on a similar topic to what I'm writing that have a similar tone to what I'm writing that I found, I found that to be much more helpful in terms of being able to sort of plot my own book in my head, like here might hear what my own book would read, like, because I was reading other people who did that. Well, if that makes sense.
That makes that makes a lot of sense. And that's, that's one of the joys of being able to see all the new science books as I just mentioned, any of you seen Brad Fox's bathysphere book, it just won a major prize which included a $10,000 award which is pretty phenomenal far. Put prize from the I think the Sloan Foundation was one of the founders. I just tweeted about it the past couple of days. And I agree wholeheartedly with what Mindy said that reading other people's books, is really the way to figure out what you want to do and how you want to do it. When you when you read a book, that's fabulous, you know, that's fabulous. And then you have to go back and say, How did she or he do that? And that's really and
I, I have to say actually reading stuff that's not science, but I like i i basically like you know, if I'm awake I'm usually reading most most of the day reading stuff that's not strictly you know, that's not strictly nonfiction or that's not science is really helpful to just because that gives you other ideas about how to structure your stories about how to build characters about how to paint scenes. I mean, you know, even reading graphic novels, and thinking about how stories are structured visually and have characters are introduced visually is also really, really helpful for putting your own narrative together, at least you know, something like that.
Yeah, I remember when I read Watchmen, if you ever so the first image of every chapter is the same as the last image and so it's got like symmetry in that way. And same with the whole book, right? It all starts with like the happy face with the like glue on it. Yeah, and that's, that's how I realized that like, it's actually very common and very effective as long as you're not being too obvious to start the chapter in kind of the same scene where you like, and the chapter that very well, I mean, it's considered one of the greatest graphic novels of all time. Yeah. Anyone else?
I just wanted to plus one to like the way that I tried to work on this was reading a bunch of like, basically reading the comps that I figured I should probably have read them anyway. And, you know, taking note of how they're structured, I did encounter a book called write useful books. I would say it's very, it's opinionated to the point of almost being polemic about how you should structure your book, but it was an option I had not considered. So then it's more for books that are not trying to like just broadly in like, it's not about it's really four books that are kind of like a how to book right, like a book that has a specific, like actionable insight for people rather than, you know, very beautiful, informative nonfiction books, but mine is kind of a how to book so for me that was a useful thing to have encountered. Even though I probably won't just like, follow those directions. Exactly. But if anyone else is doing that, kind of like a book that could be considered a how to book wanted to put that out there for something to consider. And there are also I think, there are YouTube videos, in which the author whose name I forgot, summarizes his point. So that you can get a sense of it without buying the book if you want to.
What's What's the name of that book? Again?
I think it's called write useful books. I'll you know, I'll make this screen smaller and I'll find it for you and I'll put it in the chat. Okay,
so I have a book that I haven't yet read, but it was recommended to me by another writer. It's called How to write history that people want to read. And so I thought that that would be helpful in terms of anybody who's, who's going back in time to try to provide perspective on their topic.
Okay, any other questions anybody's got? Got another 15 minutes?
Thank you everyone. Yeah
yeah. So
So now so you you've been hugely successful with tick tock and with your you know, your your photo journeys as you've been writing your book, but not everybody spoke his graphic in that same way. So that would be a lot, a lot harder, I think, for other people. But maybe you want to talk about newsletters, whether they do or don't work and what what the secrets are making one that works and can be monetized as Vince wants to do.
Not me, I don't know anything about newsletters. Does anyone here know about newsletters? But I'm sCJ I'm gonna do that. So the talk it while the workshop that I'm doing is it's like it's a mini workshop among and among a bigger thing called like, like, like non traditional like other ways to get people reading your work or something and someone someone who's going to do a workshop on newsletters and minds vertical video, and then the other was aI actually, I'm not sure what they're doing. No, anybody know? I mean, so when I give a talk regarding like non visual things, if you wanted to make it tick tock like there's a lot there's there's always a way around something so like, you can just, I mean, you can just talk about stuff, but I do think surely you'll be able to find some sort of B roll or I mean, but then you'd have to buy it if you didn't film it, unless it's free. But you know, you can just talk to the, to the screen, although there are sort of ways to cheat this in. Like, can you add some sort of footage that isn't necessarily even if it's not necessarily relevant, so very famously on tick tock, there will be people who make really good points. But, and then like, people will watch those videos, but then other accounts will kind of like steal those videos and add someone like pressing slime, or like, I don't know squishing something, or I don't know doing all sorts of stuff, playing video games. So this is probably illegal, by the way, I'm quite sure. It might be considered transformative. But anyway, so a non illegal way to do it would be to simply have your own content, speak your own words, and actually film yourself doing something and surely you have a hobby of some sort like you know, you didn't have to be good at it like you know, painting. That's up but I don't know what are is everybody like concerned that if you do tick tock, you don't really have any visual elements that you could do or can everybody think of what kind of footage they would use? I had to make
a YouTube video for the Chinese publisher because I guess that's how they publicize books in China. And it was only like two minutes. And some of it was me talking to the camera with a script that I had prepared and like practiced enough that felt pretty natural. But then I interspersed it with some photos from my reporting and and a couple of cases public domain photos. But that was kind of like, you know, a low tech way to make it a little more compelling than just my head talking.
Yeah,
I think it was all right. I mean, it's like my first video. I mean, it got the job done.
Yeah. Yeah. And if anybody's thinking about buying like a nice camera, like like your phone camera will, like be fine in if light is good enough, but I I got a good camera, like 15 years ago, and I was like, very money. Conscious and very, you know, feeling very underwhelmed, but it was so worth it. And now I have so worth it like I'm so happy with like the photos, not only from a personal level, but like also if I do want to make a photo book. Yeah, so if anyone's on the fence, like, I seriously recommend it and like I don't like have very much training as a photographer. I'm like, uh, I have a lot of really cool photos. One because of the camera but to also because of kind of me just being a weirdo who will kind of like stop when I see a deer caught on the fence and like, oh, like email people like, Hey, I heard that like, you have like a pile of carcasses on your property. Can I go see it? So like, yeah, so I don't really have very many photo skills. But I think I have great photos for those two reasons.
I think you're being modest because you have you actually have a fantastic eye. I then follow I follow I follow you on Instagram and I think you have a really good sense for how to pose your photos for you know where the camera is for what the angle is going to be for the lighting is so no you know, you know
well my case I recommend everyone get a camera anyway to inspire yourself to practice. Yes, it is.
The thing is like having better tools does make you a better artist. If your tools are crappy then your your work is only going to get to a certain level and no better and it can be really frustrating. It's like when you're when you're learning to play guitar. You know you're probably gonna want to just get the cheapest thing out there because you're just starting out you don't know if you're gonna you know, you don't know if you're gonna commit to it. The problem is, is that cheap guitars usually sound like garbage and they're going to be frustrating to play. They go out of tune really quickly and you need to invest like you don't need to go out and get the most expensive thing out there. But you do need to invest in something a little better than just what the like, you know, the cheapest thing is because that is going to help you elevate your work.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Kristin, when is your sCJ session?
It is the Saturday so April 6, yeah, yeah, I'm
doing one of those mini sessions, moderating and organizing. So that means I won't be able to attend yours.
Oh, really? Are you going to the next day? There's a something on books and animals or something or doing the Sunday morning thing?
I'm not I went to the Sunday thing last time, and it was fine. I didn't get a lot out of it. I did go to the Sunday book thing several years ago and that one was better but I don't know. I would just I'm going to Munich right after for a conference and I just I'm not I'm bailing out a Sunday.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm actually not going to come until Friday. So I'm just gonna I'm probably not going to have get the whole week ticket but yeah, if you do want to Thursday,
the Thursday field tours are my favorite part.
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you wanted to, I don't know if anybody's gonna I was definitely gonna stop by the Museum of Nature and Science because I think we have some dinosaur stuff there. So you want to see dinosaurs? That's one of my things.
Yeah, well, that's neat there at least. Yeah.
All right. Anything else? Uh, got seven minutes but we can close up and nobody else has any questions. One thing that I, I still don't quite understand is that but I guess I'll figure it out eventually. Is that speaking gigs? So I didn't pay I went to pay for one of the talks that I gave on Tik Tok and then it sCJ they don't pay you at all and they say it's akin to paying a source. I don't really think so. But, yeah, does anyone know like how to how one sort of gets on that circuit of paid talks.
I have been getting a significant part. of my income from speaking since the book came out. And I think I've been quite lucky. I think part of it is the subject of my book, which is water. And it's specifically focused on you know, changing our relationship with water to from kind of control to collaboration, and it's focused on this thing I call the slow water movement, and really like nature based solutions for water and taking them to scale. And it seems to be like people are really ready for this message. I've had such a wide range of invitations and then the ones that you know, pay the best are conferences for water utility managers and restoration scientists and like engineers, the American Water Resources Association and uh, you know, I went to UN water and spoke so i It's really been like a lot of people in the water area, if people knew I might expect would be quite hostile to my message. But they they've seen ready for it. And so anyway, I don't know if it's because of my subject matter that I've kind of stumbled into this speaking circuit or if it's because my book, I believe really conveys a new way of looking at things that sort of grabbed people and like the words spread, but in terms of like the the logistics, typically, when I get an email, asking if I can speak at something, I just pass it along by agent and I say, you know, I'm really excited about this. Thanks for thinking of me. I'm seeing my agent who handles my speaking negotiations or my speaking engagements. And then, you know, I leave it to her to, you know, suss out their budget and try to get as much as possible. If it's out of town, she always negotiates you know, airfare Hotel. meals, transportation, in addition to the speaking fee. If it's in town, you know, sometimes like if it's like a rotary club or something, I'm not going to pass it along to her. I'm going to see if they have a small honorarium. And if I could do it by zoom but I always ask for honorariums because it really is quite time consuming. And so you know, even the ones I do on video, I tried to get it at least you know, a couple few 100 bucks. I have done a few for free but not many. And I'm feeling like I need to start saying no, completely to that. But yeah, I mean, my agent has done a really good job and I didn't really know what to expect. I mean, do you want to know what I'm getting? Okay, so I've gotten $10,000 A couple of times. I have gotten I did do one for $2,000 to $40,000. And I won't do that again. More experienced mother told me she doesn't leave her state for less than $3,000. And I was like, but now that I've done a whole bunch of these I understand, you know, I mean, it typically takes a whole day each way for the travel. It really is quite time consuming. So anyway, I've done a bunch for like, four and 5070 500. And, you know, I know that speaking can pay way more if, if you're, you know, really famous which I'm not. But for me, you know, in terms of time invested. It definitely pays better journalism. I mean, I guess I did have the loss leader of the four years I spent working on the book, but it's really made all of my promotion time possible. Because I haven't had to be, too I mean, I have reported some stories, but I haven't been totally hustling on that because this is quite time consuming and energy consuming. And because it pays so it's been you know, I never wrote a book before now I'm 52 because I felt like I couldn't afford to, but between my main advanced my UK advanced my Chinese advanced my audiobook advance, and then all of these speaking engagements, it's actually been fine. It's been, you know, comparable to my very low bar of the freelance journalism income.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you. I always love hearing numbers.
Yeah, Erica, can I ask you Who do you have like an outside agent or is it your publisher?
I know I got an agent, my own agent. She's based in New York. And you know, I just did it by like what everybody says, you know, reading books you like that seem like they're sort of similar to yours reading who the agent is and the acknowledgments. I briefly subscribe to agent query, which you know, you can subscribe by the month and it's a place to do you know about agent query. Okay. So, you can research a lot of different agents and it has, like, what you know, what areas they focus on. And what what their approaches like, are you allowed to just cold pitch them or do you need an introduction? That kind of thing?
