Radical Massage Therapist Podcast - Ashley F1 241003

3:03PM Dec 20, 2024

Speakers:

Keywords:

massage therapy

client healing

solo practice

craniosacral therapy

visceral manipulation

cold laser therapy

manual lymphatic drainage

cupping massage

trauma-informed therapy

social justice

back injury

second career program

free consultations

client retention

Halloween costumes

Hello, radical massage therapist, and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast. I'm your host, Krista, registered massage therapist and clinic owner in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Lucky for you. I am not the radical massage therapist, but you are. You want to learn more about the benefits of a massage career, such as freedom, flexibility, financial success and fun inside and outside your career. I hope these episodes will inspire you to create a really awesome life around a sustainable massage career. My guest today is Ashley Culp Ashley is a registered massage therapist and a registered member of both the cmto and rmtao. She has been in practice for five years and has been working in her solo practice for three years in Carlton place, Ontario, she has included several modalities in her practice in order to help facilitate client healing and recovery, including craniosacral therapy, visceral manipulation, cold laser therapy, manual lymphatic drainage, cupping massage, hot jade stone massage, and fascial and scar work. She has also completed AODA compliant, disability inclusive customer service and trauma informed massage therapy training. She strives for accessibility in her practice for all bodies, and is one of the few practitioners who worked with WSIB clients. Prior to her career in massage therapy, she obtained an honors BA in social justice and peace. Studies at UW O and dabbled in small farming in her spare time, she loves relaxing with her three cats, gardening, collecting house plants and adventuring into the woods to hunt for mushrooms. I hope you enjoy this episode with Ashley. Ashley, thanks so much for joining me on the radical massage therapist podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

I've been speaking to massage therapists all over the world, like in Australia and even just in like London or Burlington, but I get to talk to you. You're in Carlton place, yeah, yeah. So for reference, what is that like, 3040, minutes away from us now,

uh, yeah, yeah, it's about 30 minutes on a good day from Ottawa. Okay.

And what do you love most about being a massage therapist?

Oh, I learn something new every day still, um, and I've been doing this for five years now. And yeah, I still find because every body is unique, right? So I'm still finding that with every unique body, I'm learning something new. And I think that's the best part. Yeah,

amazing when I was looking into your your bio and and like a little bit of research about you, you've had quite an interesting journey to massage therapy, as I'm really curious to know how you got here. So you earned an honor, like a bachelor degree of honors in social justice that was from Western

Justice and Peace Studies. Yeah,

amazing. And then what brought you to becoming a massage therapist in Carlton place. Oh,

so, yeah, I ended up sustaining a back injury at a job that I had. So I got into farming and, like, organic food and all of that stuff after university, because I was really interested in, like, food sustainability and just where our food came from. And so, yeah, I got into farming and organic food, and it was working at an organic food delivery service, lifting heavy boxes, and it was basically like a warehouse job. So I was lifting like, 50 pound bags of potatoes, like, up onto my shoulder, and I was working in like a cooler and just, like, really awkward positions, like with boxes up like this and, like, just not stuff that I was built for so I ended up with a back injury and was in incredible amounts of pain. Was in bed for six months and didn't know what was going on, didn't know what trigger points were at the time, and this was in 20 Hmm. 13 at the time, um, and I, yeah, just wanted to learn more, learn more about the body, and learn more about what was going on with me and I. Guess I just started a journey of exploration of what was going on, and started doing different seen different practitioners. And saw, Oh, I went to myofascial release and acupuncture and like, did a lot of different stuff myself, and then realized that I wanted to get into massage therapy and help other people get through what I had been through as well. And yeah, so that's kind of what got me into massage therapy, because I wasn't able to get back into the job that I was in. I was actually on EI and I had, I don't know if you've heard of that second career program that Ontario has. It's not called second career anymore. They've called it something else. But what it is, it's, it's a really amazing program. But if you're on EI and you're not able to go back to your job, what they'll do is they'll fund your education. Amazing. So I was able to get my massage therapy Education funded by the Ontario government, like a two year program. So there's, like, there's hoops you have to jump through, like I had to go through and I had to to research the best school. I had to go to three different schools, figure out which school was the best one, which one I wanted to go to. And, yeah, ended up going to Algonquin. Um, yeah. And I guess the rest is history. So

that's awesome. That's really great to know that that program exists for anybody that is listening, that is thinking of massage therapy or is not, is not sure there's if you're not able to go into the career that you originally had, I guess that's the sort of one of the hoops as well, is that you need to be doing something completely different, which is still awesome. And what, what did you originally want to do with your bachelor degree in social justice and peace?

Yeah, um, I wanted to work in, like, a non governmental organization, like an NGO, or like, like a charity organization, or something like that that was geared towards helping society people just more generally, and I didn't have anything specific. I was like, I did a minor in geography, and that was all the food based agriculture, farming stuff, um, but With University and getting a university degree, you need experience in order to get work. And I didn't have experience. I just had a degree. And there's lots of what

is it like?

Internships you can do, and like work for free, but I needed money, and I needed to work, and there wasn't a lot of opportunities for university graduates in my position, um, or I was, uh, basically over educated for any position that I was looking for. Um, so I Yeah, and I think that's one of the big problems with the university education, is that you end up with all this knowledge and nothing that you can do with it, because there's no there's no work that can employ you with that knowledge. There's, it's just like a gap. There's this huge gap right now, and there has. Been for a long time. I don't know why we siphon so many people into these education facilities if there's nowhere to put them after, which is why I'm really glad I ended up going to college, because it's, it's just more practical. It's more hands on, it's more Yeah, just it. It's placement oriented. It puts you right into the job that you you need to go into afterwards, right? So, um, yeah. So I ended up, I ended up traveling after university, um, I went to to Mexico, and I stayed in Oaxaca for two months. Um, and just like, experienced the culture there, and that was really cool. Um, yeah. And just like, lived life for a while, but yeah, then I got back and had the, had the back injury, and it kind of just kind of stopped life in my tracks. And had to, yeah, just figure out, figure out what to do. So, yeah.

So prior to you having your back injured, you hadn't really had any bodywork experience, like had any body work done on you.

I No, I had gone for massage in high school. I I had had back pain, um, since, like in high school as well, like so I've had ongoing pain on and off throughout my life, and I had seen a massage therapist in high school for back pain, Like mid thoracic type stuff, and I had had positive experiences with massage therapist. It had just never occurred to me that I could do that as a career, you know. But, like, yeah, the more I got thinking about it, the more it made sense, because I'm really hands on. I love working with my hands being also a gardener. It just, it really, it really works well for me.

Yeah, there is a lot of parallels I'm sure you've put together with your gardening experience, with your interest in, like, just nature and and getting, like, hands on. I can understand that there's those parallels, for sure, going back just out of curiosity for like, because you've had the experience of university and college, so have I, thankfully so. And I agree with you, I always knew I wanted to be a massage therapist, though, so I was really just going to university to kind of kill some time before I felt like old enough or mature enough to start massage therapy school, but I completely agree that, like, was there a divide when you were growing up? Because, like, do you feel like there was like college was like a lesser than compared to university when you were growing up? Did you kind of have that comparison in your mind,

yeah, yeah, absolutely, because, um, I like, when I, when I was growing up, I was in the year where they switched the education system to academic and applied, okay, um, and I don't know how old you are when you went to school,

I wasn't, wasn't part of that group. I was ahead of that. I was the last year of OAC.

Yeah, okay, i Yes, I am a year behind you. Okay, okay, so we had the academic and applied system. So what they did is they took everything and they siphoned it into two groups, and they were like, okay, so you can either go to university or you can go to college, yeah, and that's how it. Made it seem and they made you choose so early on where, like, what stream you were gonna take, and you didn't really have, like, a choice beyond that. And it, it, it doesn't make any sense. Like kids are so young, you're so plastic, how can you make a decision at such a young age what you're going to do when you're like, 20 years old? That doesn't make sense. I don't know. Yeah,

they really put you on that track. Track, like, early, and then if you don't want to be on that track anymore, it's just it's hard to get off. So you're kind of stuck in that absolutely,

absolutely. And what I realized after getting into, like, higher education and stuff it, it it turns out it once you're an adult, you can apply as an adult, and your grades don't actually matter. So why are they forcing children to make these decisions? It doesn't like it literally does not make sense to me. I don't know, yeah, yeah, just mind you,

yeah, no, I definitely opened up. Opened up that conversation. So do I definitely, I love it, and I agree when I originally messaged you this, we can jump into the meat of like, the episode. I was really, I really admired what you were offering, and I was really curious about how it was going. I don't remember exactly when you originally put this out there. It could have been, like, a year ago, or it could have been a few months ago, because I sort of save things and then get get around to contacting people about the podcast, but you offer free 15 minute consultations to your your clients. You put it, you put it out there that they're not, they're not just booking any appointment blind, you can actually book a 15 minute consultation with you. And you were just curious, in general, if any other massage therapist had offered this, and it was going quite well for you, you'd seen a positive response. Can you explain more about but what inspired you to do that and how it's going?

Yeah, so I guess a bit about what inspired me to do it. I had originally, when I had started working in the field of massage therapy, I had started working as a receptionist at naturopathic clinic, and those naturopaths offered the meet and greet phone consultations, and that was just a thing that they did. And I, I don't know. I always thought it was a good idea, and it was just a natural part of what they did as their practice, um, and I thought it just made a lot of sense, and I was thinking about it recently, like few months ago, because I was having a problem with because I have a have my trusty little work phone here that I can't answer all the time, right? Because work and I don't have a receptionist, right? So I can't, I can't always call people back during work hours, and I don't often want to call people back during my off hours. Um, so I was running into this problem, it was like, should I, like, hire a receptionist, or should I figure out, like, I don't know something, some other sort of solution to this problem of not being able To to answer the phone and provide clients with information that they require about my services before they book. And then I thought about this meet and greet thing, and I was like, Well, if I do this, then they can book the appointment, which is only 15 minutes, and then I still give myself a little bit of a break so I can do notes and stuff afterwards. So it's like half an hour which I have, like random half hour breaks in my day, anyway. So it just made sense to make that as a bookable appointment in my schedule, and then they could just book a phone appointment or a virtual appointment, as it whichever one they prefer. Um. Um, and then we could just discuss, and it's usually about 15 minutes, um, we can discuss their specific issues. Um, the modalities that I would use to treat those issues, um, and how I would approach that specific problem that they're having, and they don't get like a list of, oh my gosh, what are all these modalities, and what am I supposed to do with them, or how am I supposed to apply this?

I don't know,

modality to my problem. They don't have to figure that out for themselves. They can just have a conversation with me, and we can have a like a one on one, just problem solve, you know, and it makes it more personable and really, If they're going to be investing potentially 1000s of dollars in their health care. Like, doesn't it make sense to give them 15 minutes to, like, talk about what's going on? Um, and sometimes I've had two, like, two up to two or three conversations with people before, before they book an appointment, just because they're they want to make sure that they're ready before their appointment, or, I don't know, whatever, like some people are Just different in how they approach their care, right? So it's just being able to provide different solutions for for different people, I guess.

Yeah, it really does give them a personal approach to their own health care. I love that you're doing it individual, like on your own. And you know, reception is great sometimes as a buffer and to provide a little bit of information, but you won't get the same vibe between you and the like between the receptionist and the client. If they're looking to get treatment from you, it's so much better if they're speaking to you, either like you said, virtually or on the phone, so they can decide if they want to work with you. You can also vet them as to whether or not they're going to be a good fit for you for various reasons. But yeah, sometimes it can be really confusing for our clients when we just have this list of modalities that we've done, and we're really eager to share them with our clients, but you were, you're right that we're just sort of leaving it up to them to research what is cupping, or like, what is cryotherapy, and is it right for me? And there's so much we can put on our website, but sometimes they have very specific questions, so having that availability can really make a difference. So I think that was a really unique service to offer, and I'm also love that you included in your your regular schedule. So it's part of your regular work day that it's an appointment that they can book. And I love how you have boundaries. Like you said, I don't really want to return that phone call off of work hours. That's rare for massage therapist to have those kinds of boundaries, for sure. So that's really awesome. And then, like you said, with the 15 minutes out of your time, that's, you know, free, but the return on that free, 50 minute consultation can be 1000s of dollars, or even more, like when we consider the lifetime of a client, if they become a regular, and we stay in this profession for for a lifetime, Then yeah, it can really add up. So I really love that. Um, what was the response when you did mention this to, like our our community as massage therapist, did you did you feel that there was a positive response to to what you were offering? Was there any any question, like, Did anybody have any negative feedback about it, about maybe they tried it, it didn't work.

Um, I'd say mostly positive. Um, there was one person who said that they like they had already been doing it, and it's already a regular part of their practice, and they don't see why this needs to be an add, like an additional. Full appointment, but mostly it was positive, but I didn't get any feedback as to like people who tried it and found that it didn't work. Most of it was like, I try it and or I already do this, and I do it in this way, sort of a thing, yeah, yeah,

um, well, that's really great that the feedback has been, has been positive and and helpful, for sure, and you're finding that it's helping to educate your clients as well. So if they do have questions about specific modalities, you could share that with them right away.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like for, for safety reasons as well, because I like, and I find with, especially with the lymphatic drainage that tends to get a lot of interesting

issues that crop up, like potential clients who are like, I have been seeing my doctor, and I have this swollen lymph node, and I they think I have an infection, but they're not sure what It is, and my friend thinks I should get lymphatic drainage right. And I'm like, well, since your doctor thinks you have an infection, I think we should probably wait, yeah, yeah. So there's things like that and other instances where I wish people would make the call where they have, like, congestive heart failure and swollen legs, and they would like to get the swollen legs dealt with, yeah, but they have the congestive heart failure and it's like, Oh yeah, I'm very sorry.

So like, yeah, yeah. So instead of that person, so it sort of showing up to the appointment that they like, the actual massage appointment, then you're sort of finding out all of this information. And you some people you do have to turn away, you know, in those circumstances. So it would be better if you did have that consultation with them ahead of time.

Yeah, this is why I read my my intake forms ahead of time.

Yeah, well, ahead of time. Yeah, that's, that's good. And then obviously it's not taking any more out of your your time. And there's, there hasn't been any kickback. I mean, you're not, you're not charging for that free time. And like, we talked about, like the return on investment is best when you were speaking to, like, the massage therapy community. Did anybody say like, you should be charging for that that time, because it's all part of, like, our skills and experience and knowledge?

Yeah, no, I think I've gotten like, uh, the I'm really glad you're not charging for that time. I've got that sort of a response, yeah,

yeah, good,

yeah, but that I've gotten the impression that I shouldn't be charging for that time, and people are, yeah, that people are under the like, that people feel like I shouldn't be charging and I wouldn't like, I wouldn't charge, I wouldn't charge for that time either.

Yeah, no, that's good. And then what do you feel has been the retention or the and the follow through based on on you offering these consultations. Do you feel like, um, it's you've seen an increase in bookings. Is it about the same?

I think it's about the same. It hasn't increased. I think it's just made things more accessible for people, um, and just made it more available and more

made it easier to you. It easier to reach out to me, because it's hard to reach me on the phone just by calling me. So now you can book the appointment to

to, yeah, to chat. So,

yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I think a lot of massage, I'm sorry, a lot of clients don't fully understand them. If we don't have a receptionist, they really don't have a lot of time to return phone calls in between and then to get into something like that conversation if they one small question. I mean, with the limited time that we have in between clients, I mean, you're you don't want to, like, rush them through it either. When you're like, exactly watching your next client walk in the door and like, you're trying to change over the table at the same time, and it's just much more structured. I really, I really like that, and it also is just another way that we can operate without reception. I imagine you're using like it, although you're obviously using an online platform for your bookings.

Yeah, yeah. I use Jane, yeah. Love Jane, yeah. I find it it um, because of the virtual appointments that they offer. Um, it makes it very uh. Uh, I don't know. It's just really great that way to have an option for, like, a virtual or a phone call appointment. So, yeah, it's nice having the, yeah, just the the option there, yeah,

to be honest, I mean, you're probably offering them more time and attention and feedback than some doctors provide. You know, you're listening to their signs and symptoms and really giving them the best advice. I imagine. You've also had to refer out, which is always great for us to know ahead of time. If that person's not the right the right fit, have you had to, yeah, like just refer out, in general, to for some conditions,

yes, yes, yeah. Like, I've just had to, like, refer back to their doctor. Like, are you talking about with the meet and greet? Yeah? Specifically,

yeah, um, yes, yes, I have had to Yeah, not with a lot, just with a couple. But,

and has there been any challenges with offering this? Any sticky points that you didn't anticipate by offering the 15 minute consultation? No,

no, I even had one client, um, I guess a good thing, a positive thing that that's happened is that I've had a client like ask for another 15 minutes because she wanted another, like, another opportunity to speak with me. So she asked, she sent me an email and asked for more time. So I think it's a good way to help facilitate

timed conversation during your day, during your shift. Um, yeah, there might be a different way to, uh, like, a different name for the appointment. Um, to call it something different, so that it's more catered to that, um, but it seems to work really well that way. Um, yeah, just as a, like, a 15 minute like, phone conversation with your clients, like, if they need to talk to you about something, you know. And, yeah, I

think that's great. Certainly, clients know these days that they have options. Do you know if they have they know that they can go to see other massage therapists. So I think it's really great what you're offering so that they do get an idea of of who they're going to be working with potentially for a lifetime. What advice would you give to other massage therapists who might be interested in adding this to to their services?

Hmm,

um, I'd say, if you're going to do it,

I would make it available in your schedule. Do.

To

facilitate the ease of like booking within your day. Sure that makes sense. But if that doesn't work like you can use something different. Um, it just might like, I don't know, I guess whatever works for you, but, um, yeah, I don't know, yeah. Well, I mean, and then they find out whatever works for you,

yeah, ideally, yes. What does work for you, even if you wanted to have a separate day for just your meet and greets, but I don't imagine you'd completely fill up a full day, but yeah, it is what works best for you. But I would say, in the spirit of what I like to promote on the podcast, the freedom, the flexibility building a sustainable career, I like the idea of building it into your existing schedule so that you're not you know your work time is your work time. I also say like, even though most of us are independent contractors and self employed, if you could treat your day like a job, like when you're at work, you're at work, and then you can forget about it when you're at home, that's okay. Some things might come up, especially being self employed. Some things do, do occur, but if you can really separate, like, this is my work day when I'm in the clinic, I'm I'm working when I'm not at the clinic, I don't, I don't have to work. And I like that separation for sure. Yeah. What like, what other modalities Do you offer? If clients are are contacting you kind of curious about about what you do, what you do offer?

I offer craniosacral therapy. I have my level two. I offer manual lymphatic drainage. I also have my level two. I offer visceral manipulation of my level one. I'm going for my level two in April next year, though, which I'm very excited for. I have cold laser, um, they do hot jade stone massage. Say jade stone because they're Jade, they're not basalt, right? Um, I got them from BC, so they're, it's like BC Jade, which is fun. Um, I wanted to go as local as possible. That's why I got that one. So anyway, amazing cupping

and,

oh, I do scar work and facial work.

Okay, yeah. So you can kind of see, when you're looking at the menu of options, like, how this, yeah, how it all ties together, which I imagine, as most practitioners, it all kind of like weaves into one treatment. So because you have so many modalities, one thing that what you probably do is that you, like, include them in in a treatment, like you're not separating like this is, I mean, it's, it can happen that we have a lymphatic massage, a cupping massage, but I imagine that you're kind of looking at each body and treating using those different modalities in treatment, like, as you need them. Yeah, amazing, good. Yeah,

yeah. I do sometimes I do. Most of the time, the person will tell me, the client will tell me what, either what type of massage they want, or they'll tell me their issue, and I'll tell them what I think would be best suited for their body based on the

modalities that I have. Yeah, yeah, awesome.

On getting into your practice, specifically just looking at your website there, I think you have some helpful information that you know other massage therapists can benefit from. Are just things that I liked as a massage therapist myself, you seem to separate your your modalities, like between light like light touch now, would you consider yourself to only be like a light touch therapist? Or do you do offer deep tissue therapies as well?

I

mostly do light touch therapy. I. I don't do deep tissue. I sometimes will use deep pressure if the person's body requires it, like if they're a big, thick person and their muscles require the force for me to get through to the tension or the the the affected musculature or the fascia, but otherwise, I don't work with that amount of force, because it's not necessary, and I

love that. So, yeah, I love that as an option for sure. That's awesome. What I also noticed about your practice is that you seem to embody the phrase you gotta nourish to flourish. What does this quote mean to you and how does it align with your practice?

Um, yeah, I just love it. Um, I found that quote, um, and I found the person who originally made the quote as well, uh, she wrote an article about, I think it was a mental health article, um, and I contacted her, and I asked her if I could use the quote, Jesus. She's a wait, she's a psychotherapist in training in California, I believe, I asked her if I could use the quote. She said that I could. And she was very surprised, because she had written the article like years ago, and she didn't think that anybody read it or anything like that. But I just thought it was beautiful, and I I guess it aligns a lot with my my love of plants And, my

thought of

nourishing the the body in and and The mind in different ways to

help provide yourself with self care and just enable yourself to grow and by helping your like yourself, you can, in turn, help other people to flourish as well. It kind of just like feeds, feeds into the two. I think I wrote something more eloquent on my website, I'm sure. But

yeah, we'll link to your website. I mean, I love to hear it from from you as well, you know. But, but yeah, I thought that was really cool. And yeah, so we'll share that on the website, and I'll share the article as well, because you do give credit to the original person. So I'll include the article if anybody's curious about how it was, yeah, how it was mentioned in the first article there. Before we finish, I just have, like, one little last piece. But is there anything that you would like to share that we may have missed with regards to the 15 minute consultation? Something you want to share about your practice, the profession? Anything on your mind,

nothing off the top of my head. Okay, awesome. Well,

on a lighter note, we're in almost at the end of September when we're recording this. I have a feeling that you're into spooky season. I am okay. Do you want to Yes, I want to share a little bit about that I love, just little personal tidbits about my. Sausage therapist and the life we live outside of the treatment room.

Yeah, it's funny because you asked, you asked for candid photos. And I was like, looking through all my photos and stuff, and I was gonna, I was going to look for candid photos and and all my candid photos, and I think you probably meant, like, professional candid photos. No,

I like to see lifestyle like people include photos of their dogs, like them with their dogs, or, you know, they're just life.

So all my candid photos are me and like, costume, yeah, okay, yeah, Halloween costumes, because I dress up a lot, okay? And I, like, paint my face. I have, like, yeah, so, so I Yeah. The last time we went out, me and my partner, we went out at Sand worms, okay? Onesies, onesies, yeah, sand worm onesies. They were great. We still have them. They're amazing.

Um, I love them, yeah. And

then do you have a plan for for this year yet?

Um, yeah, this year I am going as li Lu from the fifth element. Oh, very cool. Yeah. Got the, I got the orange wig. Yeah? Everything? Very

cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm

really into Halloween. I don't know where I'm going yet, but I got a costumes.

Good, awesome. Well, Ashley, I'm really glad we were able to connect and talk about how you're offering these consultations to clients. I hope that it might inspire other massage therapists to also offer them to their clients and and, yeah, so if other people are interested in maybe just getting in touch with you, maybe following along and finding out what your next costume looks like there. How can they? How can they follow you?

I have Facebook and Instagram. I You can follow me on Instagram at Ashley Culp RMT, I am on Facebook, Ashley Culp RMT, and my website is www, dot. Ashley Culp, rmt.com,

Amazing. Thanks so much for your time. Ashley, yeah. Thanks

so much for having me. Krista, you.