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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Yo, Becky, what's happening?
Hey, Jon, we have one of our marketing heroes on the podcast today. Are you as excited as I am?
We've been like wanting this to happen for seasons upon seasons, and it's finally happening.
I know. So let me introduce the community to Racheli. She is the founder of the pedal and let me just break something down before we get into this intro. She is without a doubt the funniest, most clever, nonprofit marketer on social media right now. I had been watching. We had been watching Rahel a for months, years that we've been in business. And I learned so much from the simple, profound and hysterically accurate way that she identifies and pens nonprofit, but also unleashes wonderful and careful insights. So let me introduce you to this amazing marketing force for good Racheli left her dream job and began working with a nonprofit called the friendship circle that creates friendship and inclusion for individuals with special needs, cannot wait to hear that story. And while she was at this incredible nonprofit, she was diving into the program piece of it. And she discovered that there are benefits from marketing within. And we're gonna be diving into that discussion today. But she is a founder, she is a marketer, she has built pedal to be one of the most progressive marketing firms for nonprofits. And today, she's going to walk us through the benefits of marketing and how it can transform your organization. If you look at the potential and the unique insights that are inside, she believes that nonprofit marketing is hugely underutilized, because too often we follow what we did last year, and we look to the organizations to the left and to the right of us, instead of what our big bold missions are calling us to do. If this sounds like you, you're in for a treat. Racheli we are so excited that you're here. Welcome to the weird for good podcast.
Oh my god, Becky, what an intro, I am so delighted to meet you and John. And like I was telling you guys, when I hopped on, I go running with you guys in my ears, listening to all the nonprofit wisdom from the genius people that you have on. And I'm just so honored to be here and chat and chat with the two of you.
Well, you are the genius that's on today. And I used to think I was pretty funny and clever. And then I read your posts and I was like I am fangirling I am your ultimate hype queen. So before we dive into just the unique way that you approach, storytelling, the way that you approach engagement, we want to know about you because the first time we talk to you were in Canada now you're here in the states, like talk to us about this winding journey and what led you to really pour yourself into this work, work and be a female entrepreneur founder.
Sure, I'd love to, after graduating what I you know what I decided to do as I was kind of getting very into marketing. And I got very lucky. I'm a born and raised Brooklyn girl. So I had lots of great connections. And I landed this like awesome marketing job for this like super fast growing company. And what I quickly found out was that although I loved marketing, I didn't feel really excited about the products that we were marketing. And I had previously volunteered a ton and worked a lot in the nonprofit space, you know, in high school and I started looking for some opportunities there. And one thing led to another it was a winding journey. But I ended up moving to Montreal to take a position as program director for an organization called Friendship Circle. And their mission is to pair young people who have disabilities with typical peers their age to really create an inclusive community and the way my first day started was I walk in they have a beautiful center walk in you know towards my heading heading towards my office, and I see on the wall sort of this like paper thermometer, kind of like the ones that you'll see during the campaign. And like it'll slowly fill up and...
Oh I see it, we all see.
The strangest thing was that, you know, the bottom said zero, the top said 100. And I'm like, okay, can't be there trying to raise 100 bucks. So like, what, what is this? So I asked one of, you know, one of the staff and she goes, you know, we're trying to get to 100 participants with disabilities. And I was like, what I'm standing in this like beautiful building. Prior to taking the job, I had come and dropped into the programs. They had these, like amazing instructors, and just amazing things happening. And I'm like, How is it that you're like, trying to get to 100? Members, this should be a no brainer. We're in a city with 1000s and 1000s people who have disabilities, why is this a thing. And what I quickly found out was that although the people within the organization, they were living and breathing, the mission, they believed in it so much, but there was this massive gap between what was actually happening and what was being communicated. Because we get so kind of set into like the mission and what's happening. And we forget that part of our mission is not just doing the work, but including people bringing them into the story. And so I quickly realized that my job was not just gonna be program director as I had initially thought, but I had to really utilize everything I knew from the for profit space about marketing, and bring it into the nonprofit space. And over the five years that I was in that organization, you know, people had never heard of the name, too. By the time I left my position there, you know, we had weightless for every single program. It was just like, you walk into any, you know, any space in the city, say the name, Friendship Circle, and people were like, Oh, my goodness, I love the work that you're doing. And it was just about sharing with everybody what was actually happening, because, you know, we're so busy doing the work, and you know, people can't see what we see. And it's not just like a nice to have, it is our duty or responsibility intertwined with our mission to share that and get that out, you know, to the entire community and invite people into the cause.
Oh, my gosh, is everybody leaning in and saying I can be a marketer? Right in this moment, right? Because this is sintering. Why this is so critical. Like I keep thinking, I've seen you go after this on social media, which I love, but like, best kept secret is not like a badge of honor. And that's like what we all kind of say it's like, oh, you know, this program is the best kept secret in town. But it's like, what a disservice to the town. Talk us through what are some of those strategies that were underlying this movement of like, how this marketing from within? What are some of the core things that helped shift? Y'all in that direction?
Yeah. So I think one of the first things that I looked at, and I don't think this is talked about enough, we need to look at our organization, as a product. And when it comes to marketing, you know, a lot of us start with promotion, we think like, you know, marketing is promotion. But marketing is just as much about the product than it is about promoting the product, right? You're never going to be able to get the masses around you if you don't have that quality product. And so what it really starts with is taking a hard look at your programs at your volunteer experience at your donor experience and saying, you know, what, what does this look like? What about this would make a 16 year old want to share this on their own Instagram account, or their or make a real about it, or go to their high school and tell their friends about it, you know, if you're going to have an okay, an average donor experience, donor experience, volunteer experience, you're not going to get that. And one of the scariest things that that we did was, we had this fundraising walk called Walk for friendship. And it was in you know, one of the local parks in kind of like a residential area, and the park was so happy to host us for free and help us out. And I said, you know, this isn't gonna work. Now, I don't know if you guys have ever been in Montreal, but the most iconic part of Montreal is the old port. And it's kind of like the old city, it's by the water. There's millions of visitors there every year. And we inquired about creating the event there. And I don't remember the exact number, but it was upward of $10,000 to create our walk there. And I mean, the board almost fell off their chairs. When we pitched this, it was just like a laundry list of reasons why this just was not a good idea. And that Walker grew from about 300 participants to about 1000 participants from raising about 300,000 to about 600,000 in that last year. So you know, it really requires that how are we making this actual event something that that is worth talking about that is worth that level of of enthusiasm and support. And it's like that with everything from like your donor experience to your events. It's really about saying like, this can't be just good enough.
Are we making our events something worth talking about? Because here's the thing, if, if there's no FOMO, if there's no connection, if there's no reason why you would want to share, then there's going to be no engagement whatsoever. And I think that's what I love so much about your story. And I just, I'm looking at this case study, you triple your participants in the you, which creates a waitlist, you doubled your funds raised. And I just want to know, how did you do this from a marketing perspective, talk to us about some of the strategies that you employed. And I want to say, and this is just my guess, these are not like earth shattering new, it's very technical ideas that you have. I mean, you worked with what you had, and I would just love for you to kind of break some of those down for us if you can.
Sure. Um, so a lot of it was grassroots. I mean, all of it, I, we didn't have much of a budget, and a lot of it was risk taking, and just showing up and asking for things. I'm sure you guys are familiar with, like the London I like massive Ferris Wheel. Yeah, so the same craters of the London I created wheel like that in the Old Port. And it opened a couple of months before that first event, me and my husband went down there every week to just try and bump into the owners of the wheel. And my husband got a meeting. And he asked, he said, Would you you know, be a sponsor the walk and give all of our walk participants a free ride on the wheel. And I don't know what the ticket cost, but it was upwards of like $25. And we thought it you know, it was just an ask. And then once I had that, then I was able to go to you know, the, here's this news outlet in Montreal, that's kind of like super young and hip. It's called MTL blog. And then I was able to kind of go and pitch the story to that. What would make someone want to come out if they don't yet know about our cause? How can we get them to come? Just really thinking about like, Okay, what is it that we have, I've never been an organization that doesn't have so many resources that they might not realize. And it's just like, who's on your board? Who are your volunteers, and, and really tapping into that and getting them to buy in.
And I mean, how cool that your story is, maybe you're that person that doesn't isn't in the right room today, like you created this room, like you created these collisions to happen in the way that you're building relationships and showing up in the community. But I just love this thread of experience, because I think we can all think of like, how do we elevate the experience for donors for our programs, so that people want to talk about them without you having to give them assets? It's like, how did that just happen organically, it has to be the goal. So the business side of things like the marketers for these big brands are really good at doing that, you know, people I'm an Apple fanboy, because Apple has indoctrinated me to this incredible experience. So I love Apple stuff. But like how, what are some of the things that we can take from the business world? And how can we kind of apply some of those techniques as we try to pour into our marketing,
when I'm looking at marketing, I'm just remembering that people are on their phones, they're taking in these messages, because they're looking for entertainment, they're looking for inspiration, they're looking to laugh. And, you know, we need to really put aside all of our agendas. I want you know, X amount of RSVP is by tomorrow. And I want I need X amount of donations, reach my goal at the end of this month. And just look at your audience as like, How can I show up and give them what they want? How can I inspire them? How can I entertain them? And I keep saying entertain, because it's a really huge part of that. And the other part of this is the no strings attached, which is, you know, let's take you guys for example, for an example, right? Say you're running your Instagram account, you guys have a great Instagram account, and you post and cheer about the podcast. But what if, for some reason, I could not ever listen to your podcast, so I'm following you. And we know for sure I am never ever going to listen to your podcast. What how would then would you be putting out the content in the world? What would you be posting. So with that, even if I take no further action, from seeing your post, I am going to get a lot of value from following you. And I think it's creating that within your marketing so that I am being inspired. I'm being entertained. I am feeling part of community whether or not I ever take action, and it's through really having that mindset that actually results in people taking action. It's about creating content that really is about serving your audience. With nonprofits. It's really easy to get stuck in the like, what do I need by next week? What do I need by next month? But if we really want to build communities if you know I love asking the question of if I land on your nonprofit Instagram account, and I don't yet know know you, there is no reason in the world for me to click follow because I'm not yet ready to donate. ate or to volunteer. But I might come across I might even like scan a couple of posts. But why in the heck would I click follow? You know what is on those last couple of posts that you posted that would make me do that?
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I think as you're talking, it just reinforces how important syndication is. And we say this all the time. If you are really committed to engagement, you have to understand that your people are not hanging out all in the same place. I love this example about what if somebody doesn't listen to podcasts, I actually had this example happen to me. Last week, I met somebody in our community who had never listened to one of our podcasts, but she was absorbing the content through webinars and through the community. And it's like, that's great. We have to think about how do we purpose repurpose a lot of these conversations to be multi channel and nunney in take the pressure of omni channel off because we can't do all the things unless you have a really great integrated tech platform. And Jon, I'm sorry, you were going to jump in there. And I want to let you go.
I love what you're saying. Because I agree that, you know, we're like in this transition phase. I mean, we were in the nonprofit world when social media came out, I remember like the first discussions of like, are we gonna set up a Facebook page. And that which is just funny to think back on now. Because if content creation, and online community building is not part of your core strategy, like you are so behind the times, you know, and so I think what you're giving advice here is like that has to follows through with investment and with people. And this isn't just stuffing your intern with that this is mission critical, because you're trying to shepherd people at scale.
So I think that one of the things that is still really missing in the nonprofit marketing space is cutting the jargon and using your voice. And it's scary. I know how scary it is. Because when you are going to use all the buzzwords and you know, talk like a robot, nobody is going to come at you. No one's gonna say, you know, why did you write you know, you're not gonna get any complaints, you're not gonna get any questions. You know, why do you talk about this? And why do you share in that, like, you know, you're just going to coast. But people have enough of that overflowing in their inboxes in, you know, on their feeds, and what they really want is to connect to another person. You know, one of the things that I often tell clients when they're like getting really stuck with this, I'm like, Just take your phone and send me a voice note. Send me a voice note of what you were just telling me. What is the story? What happened? What do you need, and then I'll just like show them like look, we typed it up. Even if we just do a few minor edits. This is like a world of apart better than that like stiff buttoned up email and you know if you look in your feeds, like if you look at Brands people are expecting, you know, you to show up as you and it doesn't work anymore to kind of hide behind. You know all that jargon. And, and if it worked last year, or if it worked a couple of years ago, doesn't mean it's going to work this year. For example, like with social with social media, what I find is that just to keep the same level of engagement year after year is so hard. So if you know, you effortlessly got 10% of your audience engaged to keep that year after the year is like, incredibly hard, no one's able to do that. Because people, you know, people's attention spans are getting shorter and shorter, the way the algorithms are working, people are seeing your post alongside content creators that are spending a ton of money on their content. And so it's not going to work any more to, you know, post your flyer of your upcoming event, when you know, we are inviting you to dot dot dot, you know, you need any more you need more people want more people are going to go to the organizations that will give them a real relationship.
Okay, your voice transcribing hack is so brilliant. Because even even we tend to like start typing corporate, like we're writing an essay in eighth grade or something, you know. So I love that. Just that because it'll humanize it. I'll add some like different colloquial type language and just make it a lot more fun too.
Can I add something into there? I gotta go. I got a hot take on something like that. I mean, if you are still struggling, after you've done the voice recording, I would say put two anchors in there. One, how did this make you feel? There you have some human words? How does it make you feel to? What does this mean? To the world? What does this mean to your mission? Anchor something in that if you can answer those questions, the feeling words, and why it's important, you're gonna have a story wrapped around all of that.
I've heard this already in your story today. And so I want to circle back to it, but you're not afraid of trying stuff. And if you're gonna hang on social media and try to build community, you got to be really ready with trying stuff. We, you know, we preach this a lot on the podcast, but we you give, you know, just like amp up the community, like, show us the power of why we should be leaning into that it's really as innovation but it's having just this open hand to what's possible and try and stuff. So I want to give you the floor on that.
Sure. Yeah. So I like to think like, if something doesn't make you a little bit nervous, before you hit post, or send, you know, start again, nonprofits, your email is not a must read, okay? I need to people need to read the email from their boss, the email from, you know, their kids school, they don't need to open your email. So it's sitting there between, you know, the promo from Target, and you know, the sale on anthropology, why should they open your email? Why should they, you know, take that time, you know, if you are asking them something, you need to give them something in return. And maybe that's a story where you're being a little bit vulnerable. Maybe it's, you know, you sharing something that makes you squirm a tiny bit, because you're sharing about that failure that happened. But if you're not really going a little bit out of your comfort zone, it is not going to be enough to grab people's attention. We need to be trying things and seeing what sticks, and we can't be afraid, we have to realize that that's part of the process. And the biggest marketing companies, I mean, Nike Apple, their faith, that stuff that sometimes flops, they take risks, too, you know, and so I think it's really, really important to realize that it's not a sign you're doing something wrong. If you try something and doesn't work. A certain amount of marketing is just will bogus hit will this resonate. And, you know, look at look at, you know, movies and TV shows people are pouring millions and millions of dollars into these. And you know, that movie swamps that movie didn't make money, that TV show nobody liked, you know, but you know, that doesn't mean they shut down, right?
I agree. Oh, my gosh. I mean, so much of your work has been centered. The last, you know, bit of your career has been focused on the nonprofit sector. I know, it just attracts all of us. Because at the core, we just believe in the power of philanthropy and generosity, want to give you a chance to tell a story that's maybe stuck with you through the organizations you've worked with and inspired.
So my, I guess the story of philanthropy that's really inspired me has actually been super recent. And it's been with my eight year old daughter. She decided this summer that she wanted to raise money for an organization that creates this, like super amazing, super fun summer camp for kids who are, you know, struggling with life threatening illnesses. And she told me she wanted to raise $200. So she started out with, you know, the classic lemonade stand, you know, made like 20 bucks. And then she said, you know, that wasn't really working too well, to get to that $200 goal. So she took my phone, she doesn't have her own phone, and she sent voice notes to her aunt's her uncle's family friends, and it went something like this like, Hi, this is Rita you know how I go to camp and I love it. Well, there are kids who can't go to camp because they're really sick. And, you know, they, they need medication, they need to be near doctors. And so I really want to raise $200 so that these kids can go to camp, would you help me out, she made $200 in like 10 minutes. And what I love about this is, I think, like, I took like two major takeaways for this number one was what happens when you use your voice, and you find your own personal connection to the cause. And you really lead with that. And you know, it's a voice. So it's not, you know, buttoned up female, let's jump back to that example. And I think the other thing that's fun to think about is really understanding the lifetime value of a donor, my daughter's eighth, she raised $200, we need to pay more attention to the smaller donors, or the donors that maybe maybe are super young, or whatever it is, and really understand that somebody who had eight years old is going to raise $200, for your cause, I mean, imagine the kind of lifetime impact they can have. If you really nurture them, if you go back and show them that you appreciate, go back and report on that impact. You know, she could raise $400 next year. So I love just thinking about thinking about that. And I mean, it's my daughter, so of course I love that story. But I just think there's there's so much in there.
Bravo to Vita, I mean, what a great story. And I just think about the potential of Gen alpha. And this is such a social conversation, we're talking about marketing and social engagement. And I'm just here to tell you that if you are somebody who subscribes to the long game, then your social engagement, the joy, the humor, the authenticity, the vulnerability that you can pull out right now, those are going to attract the people that are going to be giving to you very large gifts in 1020 30 years. And so how you show up matters, how you see that person matters, whether they're eight, or whether they're 78, you know, and retiring. And we're looking at them as a planned giving donor, every stage of the donor lifecycle has massive potential. And I love that you started at the base with your story. Amazing one. So I hate to even ask this question, but it means we're winding down. We gotta go to the one good thing, and I cannot wait to hear what your one good thing is that you would leave for the community.
I know, we haven't talked too much about storytelling. So I'm going to I'm going to turn my Well good thing into a storytelling tip. Can I say two good things about storytelling?
You can say whatever you want about storytelling.
You'll let me? Let's do it. So the first thing I want you to think about when it comes to stories is going back to that, you know, early days with me in friendship circle was there was that massive gap between what we were saying and what the outside person is saying. And a lot of times we remember to report when it comes to these like big grand stories, these massive stories of transformation. And what I want you to do is open up a Google Doc or maybe just a file on your notes app on your phone. And I want you to write down every moment that you feel during the day where you're like, This is why I do it. Or oh my god, how cool was it seeing that moment. And at the end of the week, you are going to have so many little micro stories to tell. And whether you choose to do that by hopping on Instagram story or by sending a voice note to donors or including it, you know, a little bit of that copy in your email. People want to hear about the little stories and little moments and talking about the 4.8 review, right? You know, if all the stories you share are these massive, grand transformational stories, I think it actually erodes trust a little bit. Because we all know that that's not every day, but there's also little wins. There's little stories, not every person do you change their life forever. Some people you do, you know, you help them along a little bit on the journey. And I think that just lends so much trust, credibility and connection to you and your community. And the other thing that I want to add that I mentioned when it comes to storytelling, which is something that I've started doing a lot more with clients is tell the story from a few angles, instead of just hearing the story from maybe your volunteer director or your program staff member. See how many versions of the story you can get before you tell it. So you know, if you speak to the volunteer their point of view, the recipient, their point of view, you know, maybe the parent of the volunteer, whatever it is, when you can get a couple of different perspectives on that story. Your storytelling is going to be so much deeper just by that and it's just, you know, it's one more conversation, it's five more minutes, it's 10 more minutes. It's not going to you know, need to change your marketing budget for the year. So I would say as those would be my two good things out when it comes to storytelling for your nonprofit.
And PS when you add all those stories in, you're cultivating every single one of those people. You are deepening the relationship that they have with the mission. You get a twofer when you do something like that. Excellent.
I was gonna extend your offer to have like three or four good things if you want to keep going. But hey, practically applied like that kind of notes tab. We started recently a little channel in our slack that we dropped when we see this, like, we'll screenshot something. And I've heard waterfall we're doing this on the frontlines of their mission. And it's like, it's it's good at the group for the whole organization. Like, if you just have this channel it like centers, everybody, and it reminds you of the small wins. And then, of course, you're gonna share it outside the walls, because you're a brilliant marketer, but um, I love sintering with that, so how can people connect with you, people are gonna want to follow you and connect us with what services you offer, and just all the ways you show up in the world.
Yeah, sure. So I'd love for you guys to come hang out with me on Instagram, at the pedal.co. That's really where I love to just share actionable tips and humor for nonprofits. And this is also where I really tried to take my own advice of creating a community where, you know, my goal is not for you to follow me so that you then work with me, my goal is to help you out with your everyday marketing right now. And some some of those nonprofits work with me and I love working with them. But when I'm posting and sharing those ideas, it's really I just love when people like DM me, and they're like, I tried it here was the result. So I'd love to hang out on Instagram. I do, of course work one on one with nonprofits. I do a one on one coaching program to help you DIY your own marketing. So really marketing from within, I work with nonprofits on campaigns, and you know, some of the standard stuff like you know, here's your email, sequence and social but also, you know, what are some what are some other ways that you can, you know, market and get attention. So, come hang out with me on Instagram, and I'd love to connect.
please come hang out with Racheli on Instagram it is I'm gonna say it right here. I'm picking Jon. It is my favorite nonprofit marketing Instagram in my channel. I love it so much. And I just really think there's great actionable tips there. So thank you so much for the wisdom bombs that you dropped here. And I just think the way that you're changing and just shifting the lens on nonprofit marketing is so wonderfully disruptive and needed right now. I hope others will follow you learn from you and adapt in the exact same way. Rooting for you, my friend.
You guys are amazing. This has been so wonderful to really get to know you and spend this time with the two of you. I'm you know, as I said, I listen to you guys, on all my all my runs. And I've learned so much from both the two of you and the guests. And as well you're interviewing style, because you're able to add so much value alongside with some of the amazing guests that you've interviewed with. So, yeah, I will I will always be your lifelong fan here and look forward to just you know, keep keep connecting, keep listening, and I have so much respect for the awesome work you guys do in this space.
So dang grateful. Holy cow.
Totally. Thank you, my friend.
Appreciate you.
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