Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We are nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. What's going on Becky?
I hope everybody's ready for this conversation, because our guest today is going to knock your socks off with her ideas.
I know. I love this so much. Because you know, we started off the year talking about business, as usual is over. Like it's just so in the past. And we wanted to find examples of people that are like doing this out loud, living it in there real time. And so Alice is here with us today. And I cannot wait to tell you a little bit of her story and walk you through how ACS is really reimagining the way that philanthropy can move so much faster. And so is my huge honor to introduce you to Alice Lin Pomponio . She's the managing director of BrightEdge, which is American Cancer Society's venture capital and impact investment arm. Y'all did y'all realize this existed because if not, I'm ready to rock your mind a little bit. Alice is this impact investor, social innovator, entrepreneur, and a patient advocate. She has this extensive experience in life sciences and business. And following her graduation from Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Go MIT, with a Bachelors of Science in Biology. She completed a master's of public policy focusing on science and technology from the Harvard Kennedy School, just a little casual degree over there. Her career began with a basic research to the US human genome program. I mean, you've had your hands incredible things, Alice, and we're so delighted to have this conversation. So she started to really channel all of this lived experience her professional experience in her passion, her lived experience with her family that is really been impacted by cancer in a really direct way. Like many of us on the call today it has, as well. And so this work with BrightEdge is really leading edge of how do we take philanthropy? How do we take passion? How do we take investment, and partner with business and partner with entrepreneurs and break down some of the traditional walls to speed impact? And we're so here for this conversation. Alice, it is great to have you on the podcast. Thanks for being here today.
Ah, thanks for the invitation. Look forward to it.
Alice, take us back, if you wouldn't mind and tell us a little bit about growing up what it looked like and maybe some formative experiences that led you into wanting to pour into this work.
Yeah, I've often joked about how I'm like the Forrest Gump of biotech, like I ended up in places that I really don't know how I got there. And so, you know, it's I'm growing up first generation from an immigrant family, my family came from Taiwan, in the 60s, I was a dutiful daughter was going to be pre med and just, you know, kind of live the American dream. And, and honestly, I stumbled onto biotech, you know, biotech had not really emerged fully as a sector at the time, and was just so fortunate to be in the hub of Life Sciences here in Cambridge, Mass. And, and yeah, that just sort of took off well beyond my expectations. You know, I had always been interested in the science and the technical side. But then I really started getting curious about the issues. And I like to think I have a molecular biologist mind still, but it's more at a systems level. And so that was when I had the opportunity to pivot and move into more Science and Technology Policy. And so my career has kind of tracked with where the sector has gone. So initially, it was more around r&d funding, then it became more of a regulatory than around how are we going to afford and pay for these novel, you know, biologics and therapeutics. And sadly, my family, mid career became impacted by cancer in one family, we've had 14 battles over 12 years, and
Oh, Alice.
Yeah, seven different types of cancer. So, you know, and really different outcomes. We have survivors who have gone through breast cancer battles, and then we had others who had brain cancer or like my mother, were uninsured. And it just feels so unfair, right, that some people can have really great outcomes and other people are left behind. And so that was, that was kind of my aha moment. I came out of the medicine cabinet and realized, you know, especially since cancer is genetic, if I'm only here for a limited period of time, I really want to use my powers for good my platform for good, that's what you guys are called. So I started volunteering, and that's actually how I came to ACS, walks and galas. You know, fundraised, and then ended up serving on area board national can board and got tapped on the shoulder to see if I could do something with BrightEdge. So that's, that's in a nutshell.
That is a very quick nutshell for such a big story. Like I'm literally seeing you lighting the luminaries, on the ACS walks of which we've been a part of that too, and just to make sure that we're clear ACS American Cancer Society, we talk about it a nonprofit, you know, like, we just know those acronyms, but I just don't think there's anybody listening to this podcast, who has not been affected by cancer, which makes your story so personal to all of us. And I want to thank you for just sharing it. And I think it's always interesting, when we turn on this microphone, and we meet people and their life is going in one trajectory, and something hits and they just feel this nudge, to pivot, and to pivot. And I think you pivoting and listening to that nudge into volunteerism one, thank you so much for being an active part of change. But I mean, you're taking it to the next level, and what we really want to talk to you about today, with the understanding that we have this bank of people of your people standing behind you who are walking in lockstep with you in this work, but we want to talk about BrightEdge. And this is a really novel concept to us, I assume it would be to our community as well. So maybe you just start out by telling us an overview of what you're doing here, because I had not heard of a venture capital and impact investment arm in a nonprofit. But I'm thinking, well, everybody needs one of these, in this day and age. So kind of talk about why was created and what it's unlocking for the American Cancer Society.
Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think that that, that tension, or identifying those gaps and making the connections, having come, you know, from the sector, I was in biopharma for the bulk of my career, doing pricing reimbursement launching some of the most expensive treatments that are out there. And then isn't it ironic that my mother passes because she was scared of what it would cost to get care?
I'm so sorry.
So the irony, right of that, and, and then at the same time that, you know, really, we have these organizations that play such a foundational role in our society, they're funding basic research, they're providing safety net services, like launching free rides, they're issuing public health guidelines, they're advocating for patients in 50 state capitals. And yet, we just sort of assume that they're going to be funded, right. And the philanthropic funding of these really important, you know, entities, I think, during COVID, just highlighted how these are also at risk, and they're also not scalable. So that was my kind of aha, and the society had already back in 2019, launched BrightEdge, initially, really with the sole purpose of diversifying revenue. So they figured, well, there's a lot of money being made in cancer deals, we know something about cancer, let's start venture capital investing with everyone else. I think what the difference is, and when I came in, and 2021, which was just in the sort of dark ages of the pandemic, is, we're not like other disease foundations, where let's say it's an rare disease, or it's a rare type of cancer, you know, American Cancer Society's mission is to end cancer as we know it for everyone. So health equity is a really important part of who we are, we don't want anyone to be left behind. And that was actually my reason for wanting to step laterally and move into a full time staff role. A charity that I volunteered for, was, you know, we really need to be thinking more strategically about how we deliver mission. And ACS has so many opportunities that are not available to other disease types or organizations. Because, you know, we look at pan cancer, all cancers were across the entire US, we care more about, you know, at risk patients. And of course, we're funding the most novel scientific breakthrough, but we can't conveniently ignore that health disparity is widening. And so how can you essentially hack the market to do the good that it should be doing all along, right, and also generate new financing models for important social work at the society. And so that's really the sort of the thinking of BrightEdge, it's these theories of change around we can invest and generate alternative revenue, we can actually deliver mission through the portfolio, meaning if the companies are successful, they may even achieve the same, if not better outcomes than what we do on the charity side. And, you know, maybe we can be catalytic and encourage more innovation in parts of the cancer care continuum, where we don't see great commercial product development and business models. So it's a triple sometimes quadruple bottom line, and we get really, really excited when it works.
I have so many questions about this, but the one that I want to ask you the most is what is Your mother's name?
Oh, Jean.
Jean, it is so important to say their names out loud because I think that something like cancer is so big. And we know so many people that are affected. And I think we get numbed by that. And we need to put the person's face in front of us and remind us, so I thank you for sharing that. And I want to just channel Jean's love into this conversation as we move forward. Jon, take it away.
Thank you.
I would just say, you know, you've given us such a good context. And we're gonna get to how do we start to apply some of these principles into our nonprofits? Because we want to, you know, set this model really on fire. But can you talk about what BrightEdge's impact has been? You talked about that quadruple, almost bottom line? What does it tangibly look like what has been accomplished?
Yeah, and we are not impact by association, right? Like we are really impact, at the core, and the same rigor, and again, coming more from medicines development, that we would approach, you know, some of our product development and FDA regulatory or public health guidelines. Those are all things that are available to ACS, right. So when we say impact, we are talking about really delivering American Cancer Society's mission. And that can be measured through the number of lives touched. So the ACS Impact Venture Fund, which is what we invest through, has through its 20 portfolio companies, 21 portfolio companies has the potential to touch 1.5 million patients, right, then we might look even further down as to what types of patients are the ones who, you know, otherwise would have poor outcomes? Are they the types of cancers that maybe the market, you know, seems unfavorable, or types of technologies, you know, diagnostics instead of therapeutics. And so that's how we would think of impact through the lens of mission delivery. And we also look at, obviously, financial performance. And then I think we look at activation within the ecosystem. And is there more durable, systemic change, you know, even us educating people who can make really important and more responsible decisions, I like to say, you know, strategy is all about making choices make the better choice. And in product development across the value chain, making the better choice at all points, is really critical to how we deepen impact. So. So that's how we think of impact. And then obviously, the scalability and the sustainability of, of ACS, as an organization.
Okay, that was so succinct, and so well put. And I'm like, that is how y'all are building the movement, especially that last piece right there. Because you can measure lives touch, you can measure your dollars, but measuring how you're activating people into the cause around the cause, awareness, getting their voice, their lived experience, their perspective, their network, their story, in it makes it such a richer movement. And again, the more diverse it is, the more it begins to look like all of us, the more it begins to feel like all of us, we start to feel and see our stories in there. So I just really applaud, not even just the bravery of starting this really diverse revenue model, but for making it so palatable and easy for other people to come in and lock their arms with you. So I want to dive into this venture capital model, because I just think it's so fascinating. And you're sitting in this really unique purview. It feels like where you have all these experiences in your career. But yes, you're you're also bringing in this personal mission, you have this passion you have I want to know about your perspective of the current philanthropic landscape in terms of how does venture capital, how does this model represent an this sort of new next level approach to philanthropy? What are the opportunities that are there for the seizing?
Oh my gosh, it's just I think we're really the tip of the iceberg. This feels a little bit like biotech in the 90s as things were just taking off, and there's a lot of terms that are being used interchangeably. Venture, venture philanthropy, philanthropic venture capital, which BrightEdge is not you know, we are actually pretty ruthless with our donor dollars. We want both financial returns and we want mission performance, which I think surprises sometimes, you know, people, clearly we're willing to take more risk in areas of known impact, which is where we have our 11 mission thematic areas. But absolutely, I think that on the investing side, so what is available to us through venture capital investing, it is very strategic, at least in life sciences for us to be investors impact investors through venture capital. Cancer is a little different than other diseases, like I mentioned, because it's so vibrant with a lot of innovation, scientific discovery. It's also pretty competitive. So you know, for us to show up and say, Hey, we're doing something that no one else is doing, where essentially gleaning bits and pieces of other parts of the ecosystem or just building enough critical mass and putting together a specialist network. That's the value add, for us that that is not our starting point, our starting point is a really competitive deal making environment where people want to make money. And there's loss aversion, they don't want to give up making too deep an impact. So the rarity in the room is that we represent health equity. And venture is really interesting because of the stage of the companies. So what we found, and this is my own lived experience working in larger companies, where 70% of drugs launched by pharma are sort of come in from smaller biotech companies, right. And those are founded out of academic labs, and they're surrounded by more financially oriented venture capitalists at the beginning. And by the time they get to the larger companies that do know something about clinical trials, or know something about how patients are going to access and afford, it's kind of too late to change a lot of those decisions earlier, you know, the indications already been selected, the clinical trials are already in motion. And so the idea that we can come in at the earliest stages, and I tried to do this as a consultant, you know, get early stage private biotech companies to care about what type of, you know, formulation, would that be, and what would their pricing strategy be, and even if the CEOs understood it, and wanted to do it, sometimes the boards felt that it was someone else's problem to fix, if it was cool science, it was gonna get paid for. So us showing up as an investor on the cap table with, you know, even a board observer see, and diversifying the perspectives at those critical product design phases, I think is gonna be transformational. It's, it's, you know, allowing more ethical and rational product design. And it's just making it more seamless. So that then, like American Cancer Society, Cancer Action Network, which is our advocacy arm doesn't have to rally, you know, to get things covered. After, you know, they've already been FDA approved. So early is important. And then on the fundraising side. You know, I would say that we're supported by a group of really magnificent visionary donors, we call them our founders circle. And many of them are themselves entrepreneurs, and they like to see their donor dollars working in a more entrepreneurial fashion. So they get that
I love those donors.
Yeah.
I really love those donors. Yes.
Yes, they're amazing. Yeah, I mean, I just, it's just shocking to me that they probably identify a little bit in us from their own journey, like, hey, there are these scrappy emerging fund managers, they've got big bold ideas, let's give them the early boost, and they're gonna go change the world. And some of them are just more practical, you know, with they want a more endowed model. They don't want to grant and then see money just go back out and granted, they want to see, right, the returns get reinvested. So we're really optimistic about the, the way that the philanthropy community, philanthropists are thinking about blended giving, both granting, as well as impact investing. And we think we're a really great partner for that.
Yeah. I love that you defined and you're you and you lit up when you talked about your donors that come to you in this way. Because we all have people in our own communities that are wired like that, that are maybe successful at business that would understand the language of business. And so I feel like y'all have this, y'all figured out how to come to the table with something that just makes sense to them and gets them excited, that connects to a deeper passion. So I'm curious, like, what are those conversations look like? Because the thing is like how this becomes transferable, how do you have those kind of investment level conversations with somebody that's so business but I love you bring this mediator that like gets the full picture.
I know, I know. She is the great like, like connector between the two groups. We need more connectors like that in this work.
Yeah. How are you approaching these conversations? I just love to, you know, kind of get your wisdom in that?
With the donors, you mean or?
With the donors yeah.
Yeah, with the donors. You know, I think it has to start with the mission alignment, right? Because, and we found this people who want to see us like a traditional venture capital firm will have, you know, very ambitious expectations for us on the financial return side, and we absolutely want to be market rate. Where we need alignment is essentially that safe invention zone for the more catalytic investing, right? So they, they they would be ones donors who would already identify with the mission, Believe in it and then see BrightEdge as an alternative way to finance and fund ACS's mission and deliver the mission and get excited about these novel technologies that if they were pointed in the right direction and really infused with an intentional impact strategy, we would have just a completely different model of healthcare moving forward. And cancer is, again, so unique in that, you know, we're one where there's not that many diseases where you can really prevent, you know, through wellness and lifestyle, don't smoke, you can screen early and intervene early, you can have a range of therapeutics or treatments and you can triage based on you know, a molecular biomarker, and then you can continue to sort of aiming to be cancer free, because cancer is pretty tricky, and it continues to mutate. So, what if cancer care could be sustainable? I mean, it's like health disparities and health care costs are like the climate change question of health care, right? The global climate change of health care? Why can't we bring some of those concepts to our investing? And that's what we're trying to really educate and build a community of practice around.
Okay, so we talk so often about, we shouldn't be asking better questions, we should be asking bigger questions. And to me, you all asked a much bigger question. And because you can cast that vision. And it's something that that people want, like, I want to live in a world like that I want global health equity for me, for the person, I don't know, I know, it's going to help us thrive, economies and communities, it's going to help elevate every good public health marker by investing in that. And so one thing, one issue we have on this podcast that I want you to kind of break down for us is we have a lot of small shops, and the bulk of nonprofits are small shops. And we're talking about people in organizations that make less than a million dollars a year on their gross revenue. And they're probably listening to this saying, Oh, we're not an ACS, we don't have a name like that. We don't have the depth of support that they have. But I think what you're saying and I'm kind of just feeding this to is there's a much bigger question here, that I'm not ACS, I don't have the funding, break this down for our small shops about how they can embrace this mindset, or maybe what's a step or two they could take to start even exploring this as a possibility.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would say, be clear about what end you have in mind, just like you all asked us, you know, we had to pilot BrightEdge and then formalize it. And I think how we did that is actually goes back to the courageous leadership that you just talked about, meaning we have impact in our operating mission pillars, patient support, research, advocacy, where we as BrightEdge actually sit is in the portfolio. So imagine you're already doing stuff off of your balance sheet with your annual budget, that is like 1,000% mission, and now you're getting your investments to work towards mission as well. Right?
So good.
Like, that's pretty
No brainer.
It's a no brainer. And so we're part of the responsible investment strategy for American Cancer Society, Inc. at the board level. So we screen out from an ESG standpoint, no tobacco, and then we are the mission driven manager of of investing through BrightEdge. And so I think that that's the conversation, you know, it's probably bigger players like us that will want to have with, let's say, corporations who are granting, you know, through their CSR platforms, like why aren't they thinking about how their investments can work towards social good as well. And we believe through things like our cancer impact investment framework, you know, the ability to generate evidence, convene experts, you know, and drive consensus, and then informed decision making, you know, we do that already on the public health guideline front, you know, so payers and clinicians look to ACS. So you know, now 45, you know, is when you should be getting your colon cancer screening, why can't we bring that same rigor to decision making and investing for impact, and also unlock new dollars, right, to grow the impact economy. And so that I think is work that needs to be done from a market building standpoint. When it comes to operationalizing this model for the smaller nonprofits, I would I would just encourage them to, you know, consider whether there are, again, blended models, maybe it's something you know, we talk a lot about the smaller cancer nonprofits, could we serve them by being the aggregator and bring them into our ecosystem, and then they're on the moving walkway and then they have critical mass, you know, so we don't know what that looks like yet. But I would say don't assume anything, do your homework, and be crystal clear on what it is that you want out of the experiment because it can be a costly experiment if you don't.
Yeah, and that's why I think you need an Alice. And I'm not saying that we all have an MIT Harvard graduate in our back pocket, which I wish we had. But I'm saying that you have believers within your nonprofit mission and organization, you have people who work in the investment space, you have people that work in the venture space, or in the financial markets, like in those people are connected to you already. They're already investing in you, whether through their financial gifts, whether they're showing up to your events, whether they're your friend on Facebook, or whatever it is, that is a show of allyship, and I think, is there an Alice out there waiting to say, we need your help we have this idea, can you help bring it to life? Are there a couple Alices. So that's my challenge, I'm just going to kind of throw out to the community today.
Such a good throw down. And I feel like Alice is like, just primed and ready for this moment. And so I really appreciate it, we can set kind of your ideas on fire. But I wonder how has this experience, how has this work changed? You? I mean, you talked a little bit about your personal life that touches your heart in this different direction in your journey. What how is it? How has it changed you being part of this?
You know, in many ways, ACS as a nonprofit, my charity of choice, you know, saved me, obviously, from despair. And it sort of saved me from divorcing this industry in this profession that I had known for 20 something years before I came here, because I was getting, you know, pretty, pretty disenchanted with the fact that the innovation was only going to novel areas, the disparities continued to grow, and no one felt any sort of self accountability or responsibility. And what really frustrated me was, you know, that we, we didn't have a voice or representation for the beneficiary voice, the end user innovation and life sciences to date has really been in these Ivory Tower, universities, and then surrounded by venture capitalists and physicians. And so I was desperate, especially as I pivoted into more teaching and working with tech enabled solutions that we're looking at, you know, patient access, and adherence and navigation, there's so much that we could be doing, you know, directed at system level barriers that isn't wrapped up in a novel, pill or cellular gene therapy. So I definitely, I think, had my lifeline and stayed in the industry, I am now an impact investor, which is a new set of skills, but coming from a policy, right. You know, there's a lot that policy has been and now the folks that listen to your podcast, who have advocacy arms, it's actually not that big of a crosswalk, when you think of the analysis and the impact you're trying to deliver through legislative or other public policy changes to just pivot that one more step and think of what would a commercial market based approach look like? And how do we incentivize more people, or make it so that the incentives are aligned, and they don't know that they're doing, you know, great social impact work, and just make it easy and frictionless. And so, you know, my Chinese name is Lin Ming Wei. So the way if you break it down, it's like the family name. And then Ming is Ming Guang, which is means like, bright moonlight. And then, so the Wei is more like engineering, and so a lot of people, when they hear the name, they sort of can read between the lines, because your parents kind of like, hope or charity, they name their children's sort of their aspirations and their wishes. And so people are like, oh, your parents, like obviously, hoped that you would be bright academically. But then what they're saying is that you can run a household and you'd be a good wife, you know, and you can be like an engineer, we need more engineers in healthcare right now we need people to solve problems, not just discover new problems to work on.
I had tears in my eyes that her name is literally bright. Like I just believe in these things that we are connected in some way that we are called to our cause. We are called to our full potential that is a beautiful story. And I just like you so much, Alice, I literally am just sitting here was so much gratitude that people like you compounded by you know, 1000s if not millions around the world who just pour into what they have into the thing that really lights them up, and you're making it better and I just thank you so much for your time and your energy and putting your vulnerability and your love in that. And we really celebrate story around here. And I we mentioned, you know in the intro that we're here for an Impact Uprising, we believe that philanthropy can reach its fullest potential, when everybody has access, and when everybody can lean into doing good. And I wonder if there's a story of philanthropy that has stayed with you in your life, it could, it doesn't have to be an actual financial gift, it could be a little moment of kindness and everything in between what's bubbling up for you?
I think there's an element of trust, and sort of shared humanity, right? You know, we're constantly, look, I married, I married into an Italian family, which means that every everybody's touching you, and they're hugging.
I get it.
And they're constantly looking for ways to like, make connections, right? You know, whether it's like you like the same food, or you stepped foot on the same block in New York, or whatever it is. And I think that we need that kind of leaning forward and leaning in approach to really open up the world to more connectivity, because what's happened is we're all trying to sub specialize and be in our own swim lanes. And that's artificial, right? It's really hard to design great models with those constraints. And I think when folks err on the side of being skeptical, or, you know, critical, then we're never going to find that safe invention zone where people can trial, new models and new, you know, collaborations. So my first career in BioPharm, I worked a lot on rare diseases and orphan drug legislation, and a lot of that was about when it came to health policy and health technology assessment. What is the new set of decision rules that we would use to evaluate, you know, these, these these technologies, these medicines, rule of rescue? Where does that come in? Right, you know, how do you value right paediatric? And these are tough societal questions. But if we don't have more sort of commonality and shared purpose, then the whole opportunity just starts to crumble. So that's why starting with both donors, and even corporate partners that are mission aligned for us, we don't want to work with bullies. I mean, we hear all the time oh, we don't need your money. We're doing you a favor. No, you know, like,
Oh my gosh, that's so gross.
We don't want to be the charity in the room, right? Like, we are legit impact specialists. And you have to work hard for us to be in your deals one, and then to, you know, if we're going to do BrightEdge, we really want to work with people who share ACS's mission, because if they're in it out of association, or for prestige, or for even shared returns financially, then it's not. It's not a sustainable or scalable model.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's just like a new wave of philanthropy happening in all different directions in this work that you're doing. And we're just so here for that. Love the way that you storytel to. So I want to round out this conversation asking for a piece of advice from you, Alice, and I know you've got a lot, you keep dropping the mic over there. But we asked for a one good thing that could be a mantra, it could be a life hack, it could be just a piece of a word that's being lifted, that you want to share with the community as we wrap up today.
So not that it's a pity party but in my situation, I don't have necessarily the survivor rah rah moments that I know a lot of people who come to cancer do. So I'm kind of a cancer orphan, if you will. And I say to my team a lot because we see so many opportunities to invest and make money for the society. And I always say, you know, how can we keep the patient in the room? So when we have events, sometimes there's an empty chair, and we're like, patient's in the room, because when these dollars go to work, what we have to remember is yes, we might invest them. And yes, they might generate returns, and there's novel therapeutics for people 15 years down the road, but there's someone today who might need free lodging to be able to make it to their appointments. And so that, just like I love policy, and I love complexity, I don't mind that tension. I feel like it's, it actually helps you get stronger, you know, when you can sit in that very uncomfortable place. Because it's role modeling the behavior for others, we leap too quickly into right, things that have worked before, or we think that our colleagues expect us to do, but when we pause, and we we grapple with some hard stuff, like the patients in the room, what would we say to them? I'm sorry, you can't have X, Y and Z because here's this cool investment we want to make?
Yeah, now I know why Alice is so successful. I really do. I mean, if you can send her humanity like that, in front of everything that you do, it just feels like you're not walking alone. It's like you're walking with so many who couldn't even be at the table. So thank you for your equity work. Thank you for the ways that you show up. So tell people where they can connect with you and where they can connect with BrightEdge.
Obviously, through the American Cancer Society webpage, which is cancer.org, which links to ACSbrightedge.org And we are out there in the community to you know, come find us at scientific congresses, we actually have a health equity meet up at South by Southwest, you know, we really want to share, yeah, perspectives, diverse perspectives, and better understand these problems, because half of the solution is how you define the problem. And then we want to be really bold and leverage ACS's unique platform to be, you know, to transcend all of the barriers and the constraints of the current ecosystem. So come find us come find us, you know, in your local community or at some of the conferences that we're at.
Alice, thank you to your family, your incredible family behind you to showing up to be a volunteer at this organization that also saw the brightness in you that brought you into this like what a journey what a story just here for this really grateful for this time.
Just honoring Jean and honoring this wonderful legacy that she has left behind that you can compound. Thank you, Alice, keep going.
Thank you. Thank you both.
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