The Science of Falling in Love with Relationship Expert Logan Ury
3:50AM Feb 12, 2022
Hi, I'm Sarah Wendell.
And I'm Alisha. I welcome to lovestruck daily The show where we bring you your daily dose of love. Which is especially important today, Sarah because it is our day.
Happy Valentine's Day, Valentine's Day.
Happy Valentine's Day to you, Sarah, will you be my Valentine? Always? To celebrate Valentine's Day today we have a guest who has a definitive expert on dating. And she's agreed to share some of her secrets with us on how to be successful in dating
I'm in love with that to you. In love with you,
are you doing anything special for Valentine's Day?
I don't actually celebrate Valentine's Day, my husband, we celebrate on the 15th because we had a long distance relationship, as I've said before we met in high school. But we got together summer after our freshman year of college. And we were in college very far apart. And for several years, we were never really able to get together on the 14th. But we were always together on the 15th. So our Valentine's Day is the 15th. And we always do something even if it is cracking open a bottle of champagne, and watching the Bake Off on the 15th is when we celebrate us. What about you? You're doing something nifty this year? I want to hear all about it. Yeah,
so well. We're a little unique in that our anniversary is February 16. We met two days after Valentine's Day. So last year for our anniversary slash Valentine's we went to Vegas. And so this year again when Megan I guess you could say you know we're lucky in love. Ah, I love it. It's like a great time to have an anniversary because you really do get to you know, celebrate Valentine's Day. But also if you're not much of a Valentine's Day person, which I never really was because I used to be a florist. And Oh, dude, Valentine's Day I had like PTSD for years about Valentine's.
Can I tell you something? Mm hmm. You are the reason I am able to appreciate cut flowers now. Oh, that's because you once because I once said, Oh, I don't like cut flowers because they die. And that makes me sad. And you're like, but they're going to bloom and they're going to die anyway, why not have the house where they're going to man happy? Yeah, I'm very happy with that. You know, Alicia, I think that my love of flowers hinges on a lot of things.
That is cool the pivot. Today, we're gonna be talking about the search for love with Logan, Yuri, a behavioral scientist turn dating coach and the author of How to not die alone. That's a great title. She's the director of relationship science at the dating app. Welcome, Logan.
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.
Thanks for coming on. And I mean, I have to say as somebody who has used dating apps for well over a decade now including hinge a big fan of hinge, I also feel like I'm a director of relationship science.
That's so funny. No one's ever said that to me.
But I'm sure your credits are a lot more important than mine.
Yeah, maybe we're we're all director of our relationship science. But yes, I am the one at hinge. Yeah, so my career has really been about pursuing my passions in two areas. The first one being psychology, decision making, really this field of behavioral science, and then my deep interest in sex, dating, relationships, Modern love all of that. And so I've had the opportunity in various jobs to combine those two interest and it's really come together for me over the last few years.
What for you is like the most romantic story there through a client or your own personal experience like and what what makes it so romantic.
I feel like the stories that are most exciting to me are people identifying their blind spots, making different choices, overcoming them and having success. And so your profile tells a story. You want to have variety. I had this male client who's really tall, attractive, successful gay man and was like, Hey, I just need to find someone exactly like me, like a super masculine CEO, six, four. He just wanted to find his twin. And he kept going out with people like that. And it never worked. They were too busy. They didn't have connection. They weren't playful. And he just thought, Oh, I haven't met the right six foot four businessman yet. And he ended up meeting this guy who is not necessarily obviously his physical type, or he didn't have all those qualities he identified but This person was so kind, so playful. They were just in this nonstop improv game. And they had great sexual chemistry. And I just feel like this is a person who he might not have even said yes to, if it weren't for some of the early conversations we had. And he even recently texted me and he's like, Do I have your blessing to propose to him? And it was so sweet. And I just feel like this is a person who has really chosen to change his behavior found love is happier than I've ever seen him. And he truly was able to shift what he prioritize. And he has found such a great relationship. So to me, that is romance. Yeah, in general, I just feel like people put dating in this special category where it's not a skill, and it's organic, and all of these things. That's just not what I believe my premise is that we're born knowing how to love but we're not born knowing how to date. And dating is a skill. Yes, relative, yes, relatively new in the span of human history dating, as we know, it was invented in around 1890. So if you feel like it's hard, and you're struggling, yeah, that's because it's a new thing. And we're all just figuring it out.
People are always saying, you know, what am I doing wrong? And I understand sometimes it's nothing. But what do you see is like the top issues that arise when someone's dating, and maybe they're not very successful, or it's not working out for them
from working with lots of different clients from around the world from different backgrounds. I have found that one thing that a lot of people have in common is unrealistic expectations. And I've categorized that into a framework that I call the three dating tendencies, and each one is focused on an unrealistic expectation. So the first one is the romanticized her. And they have unrealistic expectations of relationships. So they were raised on rom coms. They love the Disney movie, they think there's a soulmate, there's one person out there for them, they'll know it when they feel it. And if it feels like a lot of work, it must be the wrong relationship. The second type is the Maximizer. And they have unrealistic expectations of their partner, they feel like they are just one step away from finding the right person, they just need to keep looking, it's like the grass is always greener. And then the third type is the hesitate or, and they have unrealistic expectations of themselves. And so they are really hard on themselves. A lot of it is about self love. And they say I'm just not lovable, yet i'll be lovable. I'll be dateable when I dot dot dot, lose 10 pounds get a better job. So there's always this feeling of not I'm not ready to date yet, because if someone met me, they wouldn't love me. And for the hesitate or a lot of the work is understanding that no one's ever 100% ready for anything. And that dating is a skill. And you get better at dating by going on dates, figuring out who you like not sitting at home, thinking about how one day will date,
I can see what you mean about having unrealistic expectations of your partner. And I think that is so true. Like I can think of partners I had in the past who were unable to fulfill what I expected of them. And after that I went through and I made a list of the things that I absolutely need. And some of it was simple things I like to have my hand held sometimes, you know, I like to have somebody who tells me that I'm pretty or that I'm important to them. Like I like those words of affirmation. And the key for me wasn't just putting those expectations on anybody. It was finding somebody who could fulfill those expectations. So I do think I have like a romantic mindset. But I think that that can pan out, okay, if you can find somebody who can fulfill that romantic need for you.
It makes sense that you would be a romanticize her and you're hosting this podcast. And I do feel like sometimes when I speak to a manager cisors They're like, are you telling me to settle? Are you telling you what to give up on this romantic dream. And that's just a huge turnoff to them. Because they're like, I love love. I want this to work. Like I'm putting this on a pedestal? Are you telling me I can't get this. And so further romanticize or a lot of what I try to work on with them is what makes something romantic. What makes something an epic love story. And I feel like the romantic part is 20 years into a relationship being like, my wife is the most important person in my life to me exactly. And I can't wait to come home from work today and celebrate my win, not how we met. Who cares how you met in the span of a 50 year marriage, the day you met is you know, point 000 5% of the entire relationship. Exactly. It's really saying here are my must haves and those categories to me are things like kindness, loyalty, we can fight well together. We can make hard decisions together. I trust them. They're reliable. And then the other things are like maybe we build that together. Maybe they never give me flowers on Valentine's Day and I say hey, I really like flowers. And then you teach them I'd so much rather have somebody that's open to feedback and you can build the relationship. You are sure early on saying like, well, they don't have this characteristic. Oh, for sure.
I love what you said about how romance is a series of small choices, because it's that series of small choices that enable you to be an inner authentic relationship that isn't defined by a specific movie trope or a specific portrayal. Yeah,
I absolutely love that. What I would add to it is there is this person, you probably come across his work at Land Day Bhutan, he's written an amazing stuff on this. And he talks about how, for most of human history, marriage was something of convenience, my land was next to your land, our parents wanted to, you know, it was a transactional experience. And so it was around the 1700s. With this age of romanticism, which started with poetry and writing that people really got this idea of love is the soulmate love is one person for life who you have epic, passionate love for,
like I was I was looking up just out of curiosity, like, you know, older, more data dating tips, and I found one that was like, ladies don't eat cheese. On a date.
I saw that. And I was like, How dare you tell me not to eat shoes?
I just think that that's so interesting how far we've evolved.
Are there dating tips that you have to keep weeding like pernicious dandelions that people still hold on to that they need to let go of?
Yeah, I absolutely think there's a lot of outdated dating tips. When I wrote my book, one of the processes that I use to come up with the content was, what are some of the common myths around dating, one of them is just that women feel like they have to play hard to get or that they can't go after what they want. And we did some really interesting research on this at hinge where what we actually found is that, when you go after what you want, it gives you a feeling of being in control, it gives you a feeling of being in the driver's seat, and so that women who proactively send someone to like or comment and go after what they want, they feel less burned out because they don't feel like dating is happening to them. They feel like they are proactively creating the love life that they want. Another myth is just in general playing games, I find that playing games doesn't work. Because if you try to be someone you're not, eventually you're going to reveal who you actually are. And then you have to have that reckoning. Why not be authentic from the beginning and say, like, Hey, this is what I'm about, right? I think people are getting more real about mental health who they are not playing games, setting expectations from the beginning. I think that's much healthier than six months of pretending to be this other person, which just doesn't lead to long term relationships.
What are Logan, what are your tips for writing an effective honest bio for a dating app,
I talk a lot about how you should put on your profile if you're looking for something serious. So you could say, looking for my forever adventure partner or here for a good time and a long time. And we did research on this at hinge that found that if you put on your profile, that you're looking for something serious, somebody who's also looking for a relationship is 17% more likely to message you. But perhaps even more importantly, someone who's not looking for relationship is 11% less likely to message you. So it's attracting the people you want, but really weeding out the people that you don't want. And so, you want to have the first picture be a clear picture of your face. Let us see what you really look like no filters, no sunglasses, at least one picture that shows your full body pictures of you with friends and family just show us that you have a social life that you have people in your life that you care about that something that people really want. It would be great to have one of you doing an activity you love or a candidate that really shows you know what, what dating is like, and then for the prompts. So on hinge, there's these prompts that you respond to they're q&a icebreakers. You want to have a mixture of humor and vulnerability. So you don't want to have all dad jokes and be too silly. But you don't want to be all earnest and seem too serious. You really want to paint a picture of who you are. Be specific. Give people hooks that they can respond to
Fantastic. Well, Logan, this has been so amazing. Thank you so much for coming. We'd love this talk. Yes, I
had a great time too.
We would love to have you back. Where can people find you on the internet if they're looking for you? People can find
me at loganberry on Instagram and Twitter. And if people go to my website loganberry.com They can take a quiz to find out their dating tendency. They can contact me about coaching or they can sign up for my date smarter class.
Before you carry on with your day, and your Valentine's Day, let's get some love to go. What is your love to go Alicia?
I really loved what Logan said about how people aren't born knowing how to date they're born knowing how to love but not how to do yes. And I just thought that was so profound. And and so important for people to know and remember when they're out there, and they're saying Man, this is hard and that's true. Whether it's a romantic relationship or a platonic relationship. It is hard to find people And it's okay if you find it hard. This is hard. You don't know how to do this. This is not natural.
You can learn, you can learn all is not lost.
Just remember that you're not alone in that. We're all in the same boat.
Thank you for joining us on this lovely Valentine's Day. If you would like to tell us your love story or your dating app tips email us at lovestruck daily at frolic dot media.
New episodes of lovestruck daily are up every day Monday through Friday. If you
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Happy Love Day to everyone.
I'm in love with you. I'm in love with you