Weight Loss, Reversing Diabetes and Intermittent Fasting with Dr Clare Bailey

10:39AM Feb 24, 2023

Speakers:

Angela Foster

Dr Clare Bailey

Keywords:

eating

protein

visceral fat

fat

programme

ketosis

lose

terms

olive oil

diet

absolutely

claire

recipes

research

calories

bit

bailey

weight

important

blood sugars

There's research projects, showing that you know, people can eat include a litre of olive oil a week, and it's still beneficial in terms of reducing inflammation.

So firstly, I want to welcome the new listeners to the show, and also very grateful to you longtime listeners of this podcast for supporting the show. I'd like to hear from you. Is there someone that you would like me to interview? Or is there a topic that you would like me to do a solo episode and kind of deep dive into the research on you can let me know by heading over to the platform you're listening on and leaving a review and in there writing in what you'd like to hear from us on or who you'd like us to interview and we'll do our very best to fulfil that request.

Now in today's episode, I sit down with Dr. Claire Bailey, who is a GP and has supported hundreds of patients to lose weight, reduce their blood sugar and put their diabetes into remission. At her surgery in Buckinghamshire. She's also the author of the best selling book The fast 800 easy, fast 800 recipe book the eight week blood sugar diet recipe book and the clever cuts diet recipe book. Dr. Bailey also co presented channel falls lose a stone in 21 days. She is also the wife of Dr. Michael Mosley. I recently interviewed Dr. Michael, it was episode number 202. If you haven't listened to that already, it was a hugely popular episode as well. And in today's conversation, we're going to dive into how you can reverse type two diabetes and how you can improve your blood lipid profiles, your blood glucose profiling and if you have excess weight to lose how you can do that in a safe and effective manner. And also why Claire believes it is important to do this quickly and gain momentum and how you can do that while still maintaining some metabolic flexibility in the process. So without further delay, let me introduce you now to the lovely Dr. Claire Bailey.

It's wonderful to have you on the show today. Claire really enjoyed my episode with with Michael and I'm delighted to have him here to come and talk a bit more about some of the science behind the fast 800. And also the kind of delicious foods people can be eating to get the same effects and benefits that they want. So work very well and welcome to the show.

Thank you very much delighted to be here. Actually Do you know I'm usually work unknown by Dr. Claire Bailey on my work is the thing about having two names. So on the book, you'll see me as Dr. Claire Bailey.

Dr. Claire Bailey. Yes, Rachel that we get that? I'll tell you what, then Director reentry. We can do that? Yeah. Okay. Okay, let's start again. Okay. So I'm really thrilled to have you here today, I'm sitting down with Dr. Claire Bailey to talk about the fast 800. And specifically how you can cook really delicious meals and stay on track and improve things and fats, even reverse insulin resistance. So we're going to go be going a bit deeper than we did on my podcast with Claire's husband, Dr. Michael Mosley, first of all a very warm welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.

It's really exciting to have you here. And we were just chatting offline there about some of the many benefits. I think one of the things that you were mentioning that really exciting. And I think many people will be thinking about particularly as they kind of transition to their 40s and 50s and beyond is the results that you've been getting with this in terms of reduction in visceral fat. Because certainly with if we look at a female audience, for example, as they go through perimenopause, that's one of the things that I know bothers a lot of women and they feel like this, this change, and there is very real, you know, a change in fat deposition in terms of it moving from their hips and their thighs to visceral fat. visceral fat in itself can be quite quite dangerous in terms of our health, I do want to just explain a little bit about visceral fat first of all, and why it's so important to to monitor this and keep it at bay. So

visceral fat is the is the fact that as you put on weight, and particularly if you tend to eat a sort of rather sugary starchy diet, it's the right well, it it invades the gut and wraps around them that organs and affects particularly the liver and the pancreas. And what happens with with that is it it it gets stored, that the fat gets stored within these organs and causes inflammation. And over time, it causes insulin resistance, and you're not able to manage your sugars as effectively as you can't, you know, as you would hope to do, and that's what starts to lead to risks or getting diabetes or developing diabetes, does it and it's very interesting research by A Professor Roy Taylor who shows very clearly using scans that if you can drain that fat from the liver, the pancreas and around the central part of your body visceral fat, you can actually reverse that damage and and even get your pancreas over a matter of year or two recut returning to normal function which is incredibly encouraging. So for those of you who are finding that, you know you store your weight around the middle, there's a great huge benefit from finding ways to to lose that lose that weight. But interestingly and certainly I've seen it with so many patients, the visceral fat tends to be the fact that you that you lose as you lose the weight, so it's very rewarding. So you people can can lose you know, three, four or five centimetres around their weight waist, even before they've lost that much actual weight.

If you enjoy this podcast, visit female bio hacker.com and be part of a special community of women looking to optimise their mind, body and spirit. If you're tired of sifting through countless websites and books to find the answers to your questions about nutrition, fitness, hormones, mindset, spirituality, and biohacking the search is over. I've done the research for you. And every week we go live with in depth master classes, q&a calls and monthly challenges to help you transform your life. And when you join the collective you'll have access to a wealth of information, including deep dive master classes and biohacking toolkits on our members favourites, like metabolic flexibility, gut health, stress and resiliency, and stepping into your most empowered self. Get Access and be coached by me and my team and level up your health, career and life all for less than $1 a day, go to female bio hacker.com or click the link below to get started. And I'll see you on the inside. Because it's one of those areas as well, isn't it that it kind of it alerts you because every time you sit down, you feel like your skirt or your trousers loose jeans are a little bit tight. And so it's a reminder, I think and I think that can obviously have its own kind of psychological consequences on top. So it's really very reassuring to hear. And we're going to dive into how people can lose their visceral fat if they haven't me in just a moment, but it's

oh, sorry, I was just gonna say it is more difficult, particularly for women around around periods of kind of menopause because your hormones change the way you want to eat. You know, often people find that they're craving sweeter starchy food makes it harder. But they also respond very well to rapid weight loss,

which is really good. And I think that's an early warning sign, isn't it that visceral fat because if you're getting it developing, you may have insulin resistance and it might not be showing on your bloodwork. If you're looking at something like you know, I know people that were continuous blood glucose monitor, for example, they get their bloods done and they look at their HPA Romsey and this looks good. This is actually a stage almost proceeding that where there's a degree of insulin resistance. And so you might not be seeing these spikes, but actually your cells are not utilising that glucose properly as a fuel. And that's kind of hanging around. And visceral, visceral fat, presumably, is one of those early warning signs that people should pay attention to.

Yes, so a very good easy test to do to see if you are at risk of metabolic syndrome. And that is if you get a piece of string, cut it to your height, so and then wrap it up when you fold the string in half, wrap it round your middle, and it should the doubled string should meet in the middle comfortably. So it's a really good measure because this is a measure. It's a nice easy test. And it's a measure of you know, height versus waist.

So you're so you're taking a piece of string and measuring it against your height. Yeah, and then you're sealing it in half or pass it in half, and then you're bringing it around your waist and should meet so if you're not meeting in the middle and you've got he's only getting so far that would be indicative that you have some visceral fat.

Oh, absolutely. And that, you know, if you really can't, then it's and you haven't, you know had a health check. It's worth actually going and getting getting checked out to see if you are at risk of diabetes, pre diabetes. And you know, the earlier you turn that back, the sooner you know, the greater the benefit you get.

And and profound results as you were saying there within a short period In the short period of time in terms of things like fatty liver and problems with your pancreas, and because all these things as well, there's a link isn't there between being overweight and increased risk of cancer, certain types of cancer and things, in addition to type two diabetes,

and along with the goes along with what we call metabolic syndrome, and that's, you know, some of the elements of that are, yes, you have the visceral fat, but it's also associated with high blood pressure, raised lipids. So there's, there's, and, you know, raise blood sugars. So there's a sort of pattern that forms that can be reversed. So, in the past, we had this terrible sort of sense of oh, well, diabetes, once you got it, it's there forever. And it's taken a long time for people to actually really recognise and believe that that can be changed.

And what are your thoughts when people are having, we're going to come into their kind of nutrition plan they might like to follow in a moment, but the people that do you know, indulge sometimes and they see these blood sugar spikes, these blood glucose spikes? Is it? Is it a problem? If it's spiking, you know, and coming back down very quickly. I know, with the with the nutrition plan, here, you're quite flexible in relation to it. You can follow it for, say, a few days a week, particularly if you're in good metabolic health, and then be a bit more flexible, for example, at the weekends and things. How much do you think because I know there's a lot of research going on now, particularly by Jessie and shaped his son, Sam around, you know, flattening the glucose curve, and really trying to keep it within a tight range? How important do you think that is, overall, in terms of health?

I think it's very important because the longer your blood sugar, and the higher the longer the longer it lasts for it's during that time that it's doing the damage. So absolutely. There are all sorts of elements that you can bring in that help bring down blood sugars. And, and the more informed people are about the tricks and ways of doing it, you know, absolutely the better. There are general principles that, I think make it easier for people to do it. And, you know, that's where we can talk through the diet and looking at what the kind of latest evidence is about how that is effective. In terms of let's

let's do that, because I think that'd be really interesting and give people some things that they can, you know, start actioning and working on straightaway. What are the key things if people want to get a handle on that, obviously, we know that are very welcome side effect of doing this and reversing insulin resistance is going to be that reduction of visceral fat, but what kind of things can be doing from a nutritional perspective to help flatten that glucose curve and reverse insulin resistance.

So what in terms of reversing insulin resistance, it gets you into ketosis where you are using your burning ketones, your your burning fat as fuel rather than sugar. So that's the kind of key switch. And what people find is that when you are once you get your sugars down, and you can get on you go into ketosis, people feel better, they feel more alert, and while they're burning while they're burning fat now the way to get into doing it, we combined low carb, so reducing that sugar and starch with rapid weight loss using 800 to 900 calories a day. And because you combine those two, it enhances the effect and you get into ketosis, ketosis much more easily. And you can do it based on a healthy Mediterranean style diet, lowish carb, and that's this is the big difference, one that you can people can do it and it's quite sustainable, because 800 calories, 900 calories, or even going up to 1000 is really not a major challenge for our metabolism, but it still has that metabolic benefit. So a lot of these so what you can't The difference is that when you're using bases on the Mediterranean diet, you can still include you can still include some pulses. You can include some whole grains And it's those elements of it are really important parts of your microbiome, supporting your microbiome getting plenty of fibre because it's actually quite hard to get enough fibre. Otherwise, fruit and veg do do provide fibre. But some of the the, the the whole grains, beans pulses are a fantastic source so we can include some of those. And that's one of the kind of joyful things in the recipes is that they, you'll recognise the recipes as normal, tasty, everyday food, you're not having to kind of there is a perception and I know this isn't entirely action, accurate, but there is a perception that keto is about eating huge amounts of fat, and eating bacon and eggs and beef and kind of somewhat restricted diet. So the joy of this is that you were low carb, low calorie, and based on a Mediterranean style diet. Yeah, makes it very doable and accessible.

Because that's always been my concern with a ketogenic diet is not actually having enough support for the gut microbiome. And also, yeah, just if you don't get it right, and you're going to high fat and you're eating the right types of fats, I think then it can be potentially problematic, right, in terms of blood work. So what would be a typical day for somebody who's doing this? What would they eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

Okay, so we in the book, we have fun meal plans showing a you know, the way you would sort of combine food. So, for example, without actually kind of looking at specific recipes. I mean, we what Michael and I, for example, tend to do, we'll have a omelette for breakfast, and Mike's favourite one is with a bit of is a typewriter omelette with some cheese. And you know, and that actually really said two eggs sets you up for the day you're not hungry until midday. And then,

so an omelette with the sounds really tasty and all of a treat. So cheese.

Hold on. Yes, it is. And it's tasty and it's filling. And then at lunch, you might have soup. And then a mate if you're doing three meals, and then you might in the evening have, you know a baked chicken. We've got a lovely recipe which which we would we actually had for lunch today, which is KFC keto fried chicken. And it's just sort of swapping, you know, the starchy batter or breadcrumbs for using ground almonds. And that comes with protein. And that comes with extra fibre. And then have you know, one of the things that we make sure that people can eat they have as much green non starchy vegetable veg as they like. So it's not that restricted. And people kind of say once they get into ketosis, they're not feeling hungry all the time.

There's many green vegetables as you want to eat, which is great. So yes,

absolutely free green vegetables and if they're hungry, because protein is such a key element for main for reducing hunger. And it's very important we need we don't we don't store protein. So you we need to have adequate amounts of protein so so we have a rule saying the 5050 rule that in a meal that in and today you're encouraged to have more than 50 grammes, grammes of protein and less than 50 grammes of carbs. And if you can do that, ideally with with significantly more protein than that, and you know, you can got 120 grammes of protein. And that leaves you feeling satiated. And it also means that, you know, it's protein is vital for pretty much every body function, including your immune system.

And important because keto ketosis is kind of muscle sparing, isn't it? Whereas the protein is going to help you. Actually, if you want to build and you're exercising at the same time, develop more muscle, absolutely how your metabolism

and sadly, the NHS, there's an NHS online weight loss programme. And if you actually look at their recipes, they are so depleted in protein is really quite alarming. So, you know, I think there's a lot of confusion out there as to what a healthy weight loss programme is.

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think I think as you say, protein is important. 120 grammes. That's because the research that you've done indicates there doesn't seem to be a benefit? Or is it that we don't want to kick people out of ketosis? What's the relevance of the 120 as a

side project? Ideally, you will want to have more than 50 grammes of protein. But it's, it's it's, it's not more is automatically better. So you know, you're going up to if you're, you know, a large man or elderly, you need more protein. But if going beyond much beyond 120 grammes, actually, it's not beneficial. So it's like saying drinking water is healthy and good, but drinking, you know, 10 pints isn't necessarily.

Okay. And what about in terms of the types of fats that people will be having? Is it is it like Mediterranean style fat? So things like olive oil, for example? What are the what are the key fats that people are and things like that? What are they including?

Absolutely. So it's again, going following very much Mediterranean Mediterranean style diet, because again, that's where the the all the evidence in terms of health fits. So you know, as with everything, there are healthy carbohydrates there are, you know, with fats, there are healthier fats, so we use a lot of olive oil, avocados, we use some dairy we use butter is probably the best of the spreads, because you know, a lot of the others are highly processed. So it's keeping things you know, things that haven't been highly processed is one of the main, you know, looking at looking at fats that you're using, that if you're if you can use cold pressed, not the hydrogenous hydrogenated ones because they change in their nature and become less healthy when they are highly processed.

Yeah, for sure. And in terms of somebody who is approaching this, and maybe is vegetarian or vegan, how would they add adaptations to them?

There are adaptations and we suggest swaps. But as a as a vegetarian, it means using a fair amount of cheese, if vegetarians eating eggs, it's, and there's plenty of recipes that actually that account for that. But they do need to watch the amount of protein and somewhat, you know, essentially, if they're not getting enough protein, it's worth using protein powders. And that solves the issue, particularly for vegans, where it's harder to get adequate, adequate proteins, and there are really good protein shakes out there. In fact, the first 800 Use protein shakes the past 800 programme, we have an online digital programme, which has got fantastic, you know, results from it. So, topping up the protein is fairly key. So, the other thing we say to vegans is, you know, there may need to go over 1000 calories, because it's harder. You they need to eat more to get the adequate amount of protein, otherwise you you're you're left feeling hungry, for sure.

And I guess every time they're kind of eating that protein, it's in combination with some carbohydrate usually. Yeah, that's right. So called to stay low carb.

Absolutely. And you know, for vegans, a lot of there are things like edamame beans are extraordinary, they really pack a punch of protein there. But you know, going to chickpeas, others, you know, they're good sources of proteins, but as you say, you have to eat quite a lot of carbs with them, is it

potato chips, then it does

make it a bit harder to achieve ketosis, you can still be like we're losing weight without being in full ketosis, it just takes a little bit more time. And, you know, we would recommend they go to eating over 1000 calories to make sure they're getting that protein. And just remember, this is only for a short period of time. It's it is this is during the weight loss phase, and then when people are getting closer to their goal. They might want to move to intermittent fasting so that they are doing, you know, maybe the five to version where they are doing 800 calories to 900 calories twice a week and then eating normally the rest of the week.

And sounds a good way is it sort of maintaining the results that you've achieved? It's

it's a good way of transitioning when because some people kind of get when they've been on It's just an effective way of, of, of, you know, moving back to a normal, you know, routine, everyday diet and some people actually find that on a date on a weekly basis, they like to do one day of 800 calories. And there is evidence that there are benefits to intermittent fasting for all sorts of other reasons beyond weight loss.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. In terms of longevity, and overall have. Absolutely. And you mentioned, we talked a bit about the rule of 50. You also mentioned when we were speaking offline, as quite interested in hearing more on this on the trial that you did with Susan jab from Oxford, the diamond trial. can tell us a little bit more about that and what the results showed.

Yes. So this was a really interesting one. And actually, I kind of slightly stalked Susan Jack Jeb to persuade her to do the trial. She's she's the kind of was queen of this sort of research and very capable and she's based in she she's actually moved now. But at the time time, she was based in Oxford. And so essentially, the trial is unusual, because it's I think the first trial is the feasibility small trial. Looking at can this be done in general practice, and with diabetic with with overweight diabetics, and the using, actually, rather than using shakes, eating normal Mediterranean style, low carb food. And you know, the numbers were really quite small, I think it was about there was 33 people. But even with that number, and it was a random it was a controlled trial. Even with that number after two months, and these were people seeing the practice nurse, they had four consultations, that was it from the local practice nurse with a little bit of training. The patient, the patient's embraced it, they enjoyed doing it. And on average, they lost 9.5 kilos, that is amazing. Wow, that really Yes, yeah, you noticed your math studies in two months? Yeah, that is

just just by seeing their GP effectively for a little bit of support with the plan,

with with this plan, doing doing fast 800 on a daily basis, over two over two months, or until they reach their goal. And the other thing that was really striking about it was the impact it had in terms of reducing blood sugars, and reversing diabetes. So a lot of the patients significant drops in too much healthier blood pressure, and sorry, blood sugars. But they also reduced, they also reduced didn't need quite a lot of the diabetic medication as well. So it was really impressive, and very, a lot of the lot of the trials are very, very expensive. And this is something that could be done in an ordinary general practice with trained nurses, for support. It's accessible, it's doable. And it can also be done online. So we have an online programme for the first 800. And we looked at what they because that's been running now for I think five years, six years, five years. And they've we looked at 24,000 data from 24,000 people. And again, that's an online course doing exactly the same programme. And after three months, they the average weight loss from the online course was 7.3 kilos, which is pretty amazing for an online and there's always people say Oh, well they'll they'll you know, rapid weight loss, they'll go back to where they were and worse and you know, there is no evidence for that at all. And after a year they their weight loss was 8.7 kilos.

So they actually they lost it lost a little bit more and managed to keep it off. Keep it off after a year. Yeah. And do you think now it's down to the fact that a the diet plan is flexible so they can still enjoy themselves? And also it is you're getting some sort of quick quick wins and so it's more specifically less likely to fall off the waggon because A is quite tasty. but it's not so hard, they can be flexible and have fun at weekends, and they're getting some good wings, that kind of perfect trio seems

on 100%. You know, the evidence is very clear that the people who lose the work work, the lose the weight fastest are most likely to keep it off. And they feel better. And, you know, in the past, I have seen I'm embarrassed to say fruit before I saw Mike reverses diabetes, my general thing and I think most doctors because we're getting a training in it would say, Oh, just eat less and move more, which is supremely unhelpful. And oddly enough, people never came back and said, Oh, I lost weight. But it's, I think, really the other side of it is that the the, once you start losing the weight, it's much easier to start doing the exercise, so that the majority of the change comes from the change in diet. And but the exercise is very important because it's for physical health, heart health, all sorts of reasons. But exercise is a very difficult way to to lose weight.

Yeah, very hard, right? Because you're not going to burn that many calories through exercise. In fact, I mean, when I've looked at the percentages, in terms of the studies, it seems that the greater percentage is a portion to knit the non exercise Activity Thermogenesis and that overall moving fidgety and things like that, and numerous studies haven't there than actually doing exercise. Whereas there seems to be a big misconception that if you go and do a workout, 45 minutes to an hour, you'll be burning lots and lots more calories.

And I think there's quite a lot of misinformation there. I suspect a lot of you know, I've heard that quite a lot of the measurements are actually they over overestimate the amount of calories you're burning for Max exercise? I think so. And I think it was something in the past that was kind of used as a diversion from all sorts of, you know, companies have a lot of interest in maintaining, you know, poor quality foods or whatever and saying, Well, you should be doing more exercise. That's where the problem is. And, and I think that took people's eye off the real issue, which is eating, you know, a healthy diet and avoiding Ultra processed foods. I mean, really, that is one of the biggest issues. It's moving away from fast food, poor quality food, with little nutrition or protein in it.

I mean, I think I don't I'm not up to date on where it is. But I think the thing that always concerned me with plants, like Weight Watchers, when I looked at it some years ago, is that there was a point system. And as long as you were within your points, it didn't seem to matter too much. You could have lots and lots of different types of trees, right, but you had to stay within the points. If you're constantly elevating your blood sugar, and you're not getting enough fibre, not supporting your gut health, you're not supporting that metabolism. Actually, it's no wonder that people then feel that, you know, they regain weight afterwards, because more metabolic perspective, they're not really healthier, necessarily. But then I and as I say I'm not up to date. So I don't know where the Weight Watchers plan is. But I did then hear that when we were having realised that COVID was going to be worse than individuals who had a weight problem, potentially, the risks were higher, that the government was talking about introducing Weight Watchers into GP practices, because it sounds like actually from the study you've done as well that introducing healthy eating with some support and helping people have more healthy fats, more legumes and plant based foods, as you were saying with decent levels of protein will be a bigger way to solve the metabolic crisis that we're seeing.

Oh, I couldn't agree. I couldn't agree more. And it's rather frustrating, because I'm an actually, as a GP, we've been able to, to give Weight Watchers fat vouchers for years. And you know, and people do lose amazing amounts of weights that, you know, some people lose really well. But it's quite hard to sustain it on the type of diet that they prescribe, which means that you're more likely to slip back and keep having to go back to to lose the weight again.

Because if it's the protein right, and you've not protected the muscle mass, you're not really in a great position, because when you think I saw some research, I've been Dr. Mark Hyman actually talking about the fact that the average person who goes on a diet ends up gaining 11 pounds of fat back after it right. And if you think about it, if you actually lose you, you're not focusing on things like protein and healthy fats and you're losing muscle mass, your metabolic rate is going to end up quite a bit slower at the end of that process. So when you now return to eating normally, you're going to be in a weight in a calorie surplus.

Yeah, so let's Yeah, it's taken I don't that latest whitewash watches change solely, you know, it's a huge machine. But for for years and years, it was low fat, that, you know, everything had to be the fat had to be taken out of everything. And, you know, the joy of, of the research nowadays is that you can hover things in olive oil, that it makes you feel fat for long, it feel cold for longer. And it's what you call high density, calories. But actually, they last for a long time, you know, so there are good healthy fats. And it changes when you actually use food food. If you're eating low fat foods, it's often highly processed, particularly the stuff like yoghurts that you buy or low fat milk is it is less healthy than the other other unadulterated equivalent. So, you know, we've suffered for that for years. And we everybody in younger generations live in a state of fear that, you know, if they eat fat, they're gonna clog all their arteries. And the, the evidence just isn't there for that. And I think that's probably what Mark Hyman would be saying, as well. So it's, in terms of, you know, in the last 10 years, people stopped eating things like rats, Ratatouille, because all the oil have been taken out, but nobody will cook with oil. So instead of being luscious, and, and filling and incredibly tasty, is just a watery mess. Whereas if you bring the oil back in, the food face tastes better. And there's so many nutritional benefits from good quality olive oil, in terms of, you know, reducing cancer, reducing blood sugars, you know, there's just, you know, a large list of benefits.

I think I've seen research as well, showing that olive oil can help improve HDL cholesterol, and even just having like a tablespoon a day, which is really, and I think Dr. James de Nicola Antonia, he's, he's been on the show, former guest, cardio. cardiac surgeon, I believe, who has done a lot of research and articles in the BMI, even those based out in America has shown just the high antioxidant value of olive oil protects it when you're heating it. So actually cooking with olive oil isn't really an issue. If you're choosing a very good quality olive oil. I think here in Europe, we're quite lucky. Because when we buy olive oil, we're getting all of all, I think the problem in the US, as far as I've been able to see is often it cut with a cheaper oil and something pro inflammatory, like a rapeseed oil that's highly processed.

Yeah, absolutely. A good good. I mean, there are there's research projects, showing that, you know, people can eat can can include a litre of olive oil a week, and it's still beneficial, beneficial in terms of reducing inflammation. Interesting. Given that it's one of those, I kind of feel it's one of the traits that I've embraced in the recipes. And really just adding some nice, healthy oil is enough to make a huge difference.

Yeah, that that protein and or good quality oil combo keeps you very satiated, doesn't it? That's

right, and the olive oil is really you need olive oil to absorb fat soluble vitamins. So it's, you know, going back, if you actually kind of go back 56 years to a time where we weren't eating this western highly processed diet. It's a very, it's quite a good check, checking back and seeing how they vie for millennia, and often a lot of the wisdom is in how they they have eaten.

Yeah, I think so return to ancestral or ancestral practices. What about butter? So you mentioned there, you know, obviously, that small amounts but brought more broadly speaking, things like cheese, saturated fats. I know for example, when I've looked at people's genetic reports, some people are more sensitive to saturated fat. Do you advocate while the fats on the diet are high that predominantly they're coming from things like avocado oil, olive oil, avocados, flax, you know, things like that and that there isn't a high proportion which is kind of always dubbed the dirty keto, isn't it? That you have just you know, lard and bacon and those

uh, you know, to be honest, I think, you know, a bit of lard some ghee, here and there. I'm really not too worried about it. I don't tend to sort of active Fully promoted but I'm you know, some fat healthy, natural, unprocessed fat on the whole quite relaxed about it when it comes to you know, if you think a pile of lovely steamed say COVELO Nero which say I had for lunch today and dollop of of butter on it nice generous dollop. How much of a difference does that make? It means you eat the greens and you enjoy them. You

know? So fat soluble vitamins, right? So,

yes, absolutely. So taste better. Yeah, and they taste better. And that's, you know, it's all a big package, isn't it? And so, so we're kind of when it comes to dairy, kind of in moderation, you know, it's not huge amount of it, and it's how you use it and you know, full fat greek yoghurt, full fat, milk, cheese, got protein in it, all sorts of calcium, lots of other nutrients. So I, you know, I think one of the joys about being able to do get into ketosis, with with a degree of calorie restriction is that you can eat much more normal food.

Yeah, which makes it more sustainable. And

sustained. The key is being sustainable,

isn't it? Absolutely. Before you go, I was gonna end before he linked to where people can find the cookbook and everything in all of your work. I was going to ask you remember, when Michael came on the show, he said to me that he persuaded you and to keeping the house temperature at 16 degrees or was at 18. And I was just curious, given that we're recording this in January, whether he was as into the cold as he is, by viewing an ice bath or something like that.

Very good question. What could what at what temperature is it now, to be honest, I kind of ran with him on it, there was a bit of grumbling at first, and then I bought into it. And, you know, there was a kind of there was also we have some lovely Ukrainian family living with us. And, you know, their their family were are, are in the war zone, and often without heating or lights. And it kind of just sort of made you think actually while I was grumbling about it, really, you know, actually, keeping the it down to 16 degrees actually isn't too bad. And I don't know to sit now. So at first I kind of found we were going round switching it off. So as he was switching it off, and I was switching it on, but we've come to I was a bit warmer now. I don't know but we've come to a good agreement though. I did put a piece of sellotape over the thermostat to make sure that didn't switch it further down.

Presumably now you've developed a bit more brand fat, right, which is keeping you warm.

You don't realise I've got thermal slippers and all the rest of it. No, everything else. Comfortable.

Amazing. It's been really fun talking to you. And thank you for sharing all of the research and everything here. And know the recipes are absolutely delicious. The whole kind of plan is explained in in your latest book. And also people can use the online programme which also shows from a research perspective it has really good compliance rates as well. Please share our dots below where can people find out more about you about the book programme and everything else?

And can I suggest that though, people might like to look at my Instagram, I'm Dr. Claire Bailey without an eye. And you can see me making lots of the refs recipes and trying things out and Mike doing his you know, get back to normal after the New Year. See how he's progressing. So do join me on Instagram if you can. It's been a pleasure asset. Dr. Claire

Bailey is it on Dr. Keller,

as in Dr. Claire CLA Ari Bailey,

who will link to that in the show notes and the book and everything else the programme. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Such a pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to today's show and for your interest in health optimization for high performance. If you're new to my podcast, you may be interested to know that you can get a free health score and report complete with personalised recommendations on how to optimise your sleep, nutrition, fitness and resilience in the top link in the show notes below. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Links to everything we talked about are also in the show notes and if you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe for more